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View Full Version : *Official* Bullpen Blows yet another game 7/17/07 Post game thread


letsgosox1592
07-17-2007, 10:41 PM
Way to battle Garland. Good job by Haeger and Bobby struggled:(:

MUsoxfan
07-17-2007, 10:42 PM
Uribe is just going through the motions at this point

Patrick134
07-17-2007, 10:42 PM
Great throw by Dye to save the lead in the bottom of the 8th too.

...
07-17-2007, 10:42 PM
**** Bobby...

Parrothead
07-17-2007, 10:42 PM
Uribe is just going through the motions at this point

So are the rest of the White Sox.:angry:

chisoxmike
07-17-2007, 10:43 PM
Great throw by Dye to save the lead in the bottom of the 8th too.

:rolleyes: Who gives a ****? They lost.

About about that great double play to end a 9th inning threat we could've used.

Patrick134
07-17-2007, 10:44 PM
:rolleyes:

Who gives a ****? They lost.


Well one could be cynical and say it might impress scouts and pick Dye's rapidly sliding trade value up a notch. Or, it was juat a good play.

letsgosox1592
07-17-2007, 10:44 PM
Great throw by Dye to save the lead in the bottom of the 8th too.

Dye has really turned his game around from the beginning of the 2nd half. I like what I see for possible trades and for prospects in return. I hope the Sox trade Dye to the Dodger for SS prospect Chin Lung Hu or what ever

MUsoxfan
07-17-2007, 10:44 PM
So are the rest of the White Sox.:angry:

Uribe is not performing to his potential. He's been a waste. The bullpen is just a black ****hole that we expect to blow games.

Taliesinrk
07-17-2007, 10:45 PM
WOW.. on a new note, an absolutely pathetic attempt by Uribe to end the game. That was horrendous. wow

russ99
07-17-2007, 10:45 PM
Uribe is just going through the motions at this point

Agreed. That was a pretty weak effort on a catchable ball in the 11th, and his at-bats were certainly nothing to to write home about.

Maybe Uribe should be sent to AAA and Kenny should bring in one more of his stopgap minor leaguers.

What about Day starting the 11th? Was Ozzie giving Kenny more bullpen rope to hang himself with?

12 more days to the deadline. Time to start dealing, Kenny.

Huisj
07-17-2007, 10:47 PM
So why again is that the Kenny Williams says now that he's going to keep this team together? What is the point?

Kenny, trade! trade! please. shake things up. This team is blah and pathetic and ready to be taken apart.

SOXandILLINI
07-17-2007, 10:47 PM
C'mon, I mean if you don't find this funny at this point, you don't have much of a sense of humor. Let's go Brewhas...:cool:

letsgosox1592
07-17-2007, 10:49 PM
C'mon, I mean if you don't find this funny at this point, you don't have much of a sense of humor. Let's go Brewhas...:cool:

The only good thing about knowing that we most likely have no chance is stressing about every single thing in every game. Im pretty much in Offseason mode right now but theirs no Basketball or Football.

southsideirish71
07-17-2007, 10:49 PM
Just watched the replay of the uribe play. He slowed up mid run, then went out hard at the end. If he just went out hard from the start, located the ball he would of doubled off the runner. But then again, the Uribe that ran out hard on that play was about 25 donuts ago.

chisoxmike
07-17-2007, 10:49 PM
So why again is that the Kenny Williams says now that he's going to keep this team together? What is the point?

Kenny, trade! trade! please. shake things up. This team is blah and pathetic and ready to be taken apart.

Don't trade just to trade. I don't want Dye traded for a AA prospect. If you aren't going to get anything for these guys, deal with them.

Tragg
07-17-2007, 10:50 PM
Garland throws 122 pitches for a team that isn't going anywhere. And Ozzie, who usually shifts pitchers in and out with a 5 run lead in the 6th inning, lets the heretorfore horrendous Day pitch until he lost or won, I guess. The pen did need some rest, no doubt. The use just seems inconsistent.
Oh well Dye had a good night.
What did Uribe do in the 11th?

chisoxfanatic
07-17-2007, 10:51 PM
Great throw by Dye to save the lead in the bottom of the 8th too.
And what about him ****ting the bed TWICE with bases loaded??? :angry:

Great job, Bobby! :rolleyes:

Patrick134
07-17-2007, 10:51 PM
Don't trade just to trade. I don't want Dye traded for a AA prospect. If you aren't going to get anything for these guys, deal with them.


With Dye becoming a free agent, you maybe just want to deal him for whatever you can get.

southsideirish71
07-17-2007, 10:52 PM
Garland throws 122 pitches for a team that isn't going anywhere. And Ozzie, who usually shifts pitchers in and out with a 5 run lead in the 6th inning, lets the heretorfore horrendous Day pitch until he lost or won, I guess. The pen did need some rest, no doubt. The use just seems inconsistent.
Oh well Dye had a good night.
What did Uribe do in the 11th?

A slow looper just over the infield. He goes out for it, in the middle of the run he slows down a bit, then just misses it by a few inches. If he catches it, the runner would of been doubled off second. Instead its the end of the game.

Rockabilly
07-17-2007, 10:52 PM
Besides Buehrle, Garland, Vazquez and Danks the rest of the team sucks if I were KW i would give rid of at least 15 guys

russ99
07-17-2007, 10:53 PM
So why again is that the Kenny Williams says now that he's going to keep this team together? What is the point?

Kenny, trade! trade! please. shake things up. This team is blah and pathetic and ready to be taken apart.

Maybe he's using that quote as a diversionary tactic, a bit of poker-face.

Actually I don't really care about that whole shake things up deal anymore. My angst is personal. I still have way too many games left in my ticket plan and want some positive reason to go and watch White Sox baseball, be it a new exciting young player or the assurance that the bullpen won't give away every game not pitched by Buehrle.

Maybe Jimmy's 500 chase will do it for me, dunno. I think I need more. Change is good, Kenny, stagnation is bad...

JB98
07-17-2007, 10:53 PM
Agreed. That was a pretty weak effort on a catchable ball in the 11th, and his at-bats were certainly nothing to to write home about.

Maybe Uribe should be sent to AAA and Kenny should bring in one more of his stopgap minor leaguers.

What about Day starting the 11th? Was Ozzie giving Kenny more bullpen rope to hang himself with?

12 more days to the deadline. Time to start dealing, Kenny.

I don't think it was a bad thing to have Day start the 11th. You want to save Thornton in the event we actually get a lead. Several others have been overworked lately. Logan and Bukvich have both pitched three days in a row. Your designated long man, Haeger, worked in the set-up role.

His choices were stick with Day or go to Wasserman. With limited options, you need to try to milk multiple innings out of Day and hope you get a lead so you can give the ball to Thornton.

Didn't work out.

kidmccarthy
07-17-2007, 10:53 PM
I've just had a revelation. Remember 04 and the unbelievably horrible 5th starter spot. Then we made some moves and won the world series. This year our bullpen is just like that fifth starter spot. So that means next year we will make some good pickups and win the world series. Ok??? Man did that game suck. I knew when Bobby came in and Garko was announced this game was over. That guy destroys sox pitching. I hate him already.

Martinigirl
07-17-2007, 10:54 PM
C'mon, I mean if you don't find this funny at this point, you don't have much of a sense of humor. Let's go Brewhas...:cool:

I find this team many things: sad, embarrassing, horrifying, disappointing, heartbreaking, etc. Funny is nowhere near the list.

A question for everyone, once we gave up the lead in the 9th, can anyone honestly say they believed we would win? I know I didn't.

julio-cruz
07-17-2007, 11:03 PM
There was no reason to take haeger out when the rest of the bullpen has been struggling (Jenks included)?! :angry: He and Garland were the only highlights of the night. I swear, Ozzie formulaic approach to baseball seems as if he has Steve Philips of Baseball Tonight giving him advice in the dugout.
I think Ozzie needs to watch the Seinfeld episode where George Costanza makes opposing decisions in order to have success in his life! :tongue: Bizarro world indeed.

SoxandtheCityTee
07-17-2007, 11:13 PM
A slow looper just over the infield. He goes out for it, in the middle of the run he slows down a bit, then just misses it by a few inches. If he catches it, the runner would of been doubled off second. Instead its the end of the game.

I'm not given to these sorts of pronouncements but Uribe is dead to me. I can't even focus on his sins of commission or (more frequently) omission any more. It can't just be his weight. He seems to not even be there half the time.

Tragg
07-17-2007, 11:16 PM
A slow looper just over the infield. He goes out for it, in the middle of the run he slows down a bit, then just misses it by a few inches. If he catches it, the runner would of been doubled off second. Instead its the end of the game.
Geeze

Chicken Dinner
07-17-2007, 11:18 PM
I find this team many things: sad, embarrassing, horrifying, disappointing, heartbreaking, etc. Funny is nowhere near the list.

A question for everyone, once we gave up the lead in the 9th, can anyone honestly say they believed we would win? I know I didn't.

You forgot BRUTAL!!!

JB98
07-17-2007, 11:22 PM
I find this team many things: sad, embarrassing, horrifying, disappointing, heartbreaking, etc. Funny is nowhere near the list.

A question for everyone, once we gave up the lead in the 9th, can anyone honestly say they believed we would win? I know I didn't.

As soon as Garko's ball left the yard, I said aloud, "We'll lose."

The air has to go out of the sails for the players after that too. We didn't exactly put together any quality ABs in the 10th and 11th innings.

I really wish we could have scored more than one in the ninth.

Oldschoolsoxguy
07-17-2007, 11:42 PM
Anybody else been breaking things around the house lately ?

MrX
07-17-2007, 11:45 PM
Oh well Dye had a good night.

You forgot the teal.

SluggersAway
07-17-2007, 11:46 PM
At this point it is in our long-term interest to lose. A streak will only give KW cover and a reason to keep what is obviously not viable in the future.

Ozzie seems to know this and has been acting on it. This team needs major changes because this team is not the Ozzie ball/ smart ball philosophy that won us the World Series even without the bullpen implosion and injuries.

tdwiek
07-17-2007, 11:48 PM
Did Uribe truly have a chance to catch it? The way the 2007 season is going, as soon as it was a blooper, I somehow knew it would drop and stopped looking at it, just changed the channel.

The hitting is finally coming around and the starters, minus Jose, are doing their job. The bullpen is a joke and I have no fingernails left....

JB98
07-17-2007, 11:49 PM
Anybody else been breaking things around the house lately ?

Nah. I think I did that in September 2003 when we got our asses kicked in the MetroDome. I realized then that breaking things won't make the Sox win, but it will cost you money, as you must go to the store to buy a replacement for the broken items.

This team is so horse**** that it isn't worth ruining your possessions over. Tonight's game, well, it sucks to lose, but even if we had won it, so what?

DeadMoney
07-18-2007, 12:37 AM
For anyone who wants to blame Ozzie this year for (seemingly) whatever he does, I ask:
What is he supposed to do; hit, pitch, field, and run the bases for these guys? Let's face it, this team just sucks. And yes, the manager should take some heat for what's happening, but his moves (or non-moves) are get questioned night-in and night-out.

When you have Junk, Junk, Junk, Junk and Junk to choose from, which Junk do you go to? To put it in other terms, option A isn't any better than option B, C, D, E, F, or G anymore. I mean, COME ON people, THEY SUCK! It's like some people want him to flip over a Royal Flush when he was dealt a 2-4-5-8-9; it's not gonna happen!

But that's it, end of rant. I know a lot of people understand, but when I see people bashing Ozzie for going to Day instead of some guy most of us have never seen before (who probably sucks like the rest of 'em), it's somewhat frustrating.

And, just saw this (Link (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=2953)):
" Jon Garland turned in a solid performance pitching with flu-like symptoms Tuesday, allowing three runs in six innings against the Indians.

Garland's status for the outing had been in question because of his illness."

Way to battle Garland.

ChiSoxGirl
07-18-2007, 12:43 AM
For anyone who wants to blame Ozzie this year for (seemingly) whatever he does, I ask:
What is he supposed to do; hit, pitch, field, and run the bases for these guys? Let's face it, this team just sucks. And yes, the manager should take some heat for what's happening, but his moves (or non-moves) are get questioned night-in and night-out.

I see no good reason why Ozzie should be blamed for everything. Is it his fault the bullpen has an ERA of 8.00+ over the last couple months? Is it his fault the offense took sleeping pills throughout the first half? And is it his fault that seemingly half the team has been injured, practically since Day 1 of the season?

As far as I'm concerned, Ozzie has no choice but to play the hand he's been dealt, which is what he's been doing. Is he sometimes too obsessed with lefty/righty match-ups, both where making the lineups and making pitching changes are concerned? Absolutely; I'll be the first one to admit that. If a reliever is pitching well, I see no reason not to leave him in. If this is his only flaw, so be it; nobody's perfect.

JB98
07-18-2007, 12:48 AM
I see no good reason why Ozzie should be blamed for everything. Is it his fault the bullpen has an ERA of 8.00+ over the last couple months? Is it his fault the offense took sleeping pills throughout the first half? And is it his fault that seemingly half the team has been injured, practically since Day 1 of the season?

As far as I'm concerned, Ozzie has no choice but to play the hand he's been dealt, which is what he's been doing. Is he sometimes too obsessed with lefty/righty match-ups, both where making the lineups and making pitching changes are concerned? Absolutely; I'll be the first one to admit that. If a reliever is pitching well, I see no reason not to leave him in. If this is his only flaw, so be it; nobody's perfect.

"If you no have the ammunition, then you no win the ****ing war."

--Ozzie Guillen, 2006

Ozzie is guilty of overmanaging this year, but there isn't a manager alive who could have guided this group to the playoffs.

DeadMoney
07-18-2007, 01:08 AM
I see no good reason why Ozzie should be blamed for everything. Is it his fault the bullpen has an ERA of 8.00+ over the last couple months? Is it his fault the offense took sleeping pills throughout the first half? And is it his fault that seemingly half the team has been injured, practically since Day 1 of the season?

As far as I'm concerned, Ozzie has no choice but to play the hand he's been dealt, which is what he's been doing. Is he sometimes too obsessed with lefty/righty match-ups, both where making the lineups and making pitching changes are concerned? Absolutely; I'll be the first one to admit that. If a reliever is pitching well, I see no reason not to leave him in. If this is his only flaw, so be it; nobody's perfect.

I agree on all accounts.

It's just frustrating to hear, on a consistent basis, people criticizing Ozzie for his moves. It's almost as if, night-after-night someone has to grill Ozzie for a move he made.

Ozzie does have his faults, and that's not difficult to admit, but for people to blame him night-in and night-out seems ridiculous. But sadly, that's what seems to be happening.

SluggersAway
07-18-2007, 01:29 AM
It's just frustrating to hear, on a consistent basis, people criticizing...

What is even more frustrating is to hear people complaining about Sox fans and criticizing Sox fans for voicing their opinion on a message board focused primarily on discussion.

Get over it.

TDog
07-18-2007, 01:33 AM
The only leads given up since the All-Star break by the White Sox bullpen were leads entrusted to Jenks. They weren't tough saves. Giving up a single run tonight, or in Baltimore, would have gotten the job done. The Sox have 16 blown saves. That is 16 blown leads by the bullpen from the sixth inning forward. Jenks has five. Thornton has four.

It's been a bad year for the bullpen. Thornton and Jenks have been a disproportionate part of that. No one can blame Kenny Williams for putting them on the team, and no one can blame Ozzie Guillen for putting them into games.

ZombieRob
07-18-2007, 02:07 AM
What is even more frustrating is to hear people complaining about Sox fans and criticizing Sox fans for voicing their opinion on a message board focused primarily on discussion.

Get over it.
I agree.But there is alot here that take this board a little bit to seriously.And forget this is supposed to be fun .Wether people are angry,disapointed or happy about how the team has done this is still meant to be entertainment and a good place to unwind after a game and hang out with other Sox fans.

SluggersAway
07-18-2007, 02:43 AM
I agree.But there is a lot here that take this board a little bit to seriously.And forget this is supposed to be fun .Weather people are angry,disappointed or happy about how the team has done this is still meant to be entertainment and a good place to unwind after a game and hang out with other Sox fans.

I would never argue with that!

oeo
07-18-2007, 02:46 AM
A slow looper just over the infield. He goes out for it, in the middle of the run he slows down a bit, then just misses it by a few inches. If he catches it, the runner would of been doubled off second. Instead its the end of the game.

LOL...by slow down, you mean he had to jump for it, right? Uribe didn't do anything wrong on that play, he just couldn't get to it.

Dye is starting to piss me off. He hit the homerun, and made a great play at the plate, but his act is getting old. He took his sweet time to get to that Michaels "double" (and this was not just today; how many times in that Wrigley series did the Cubs round the bases like it was a merry-go-round every time they hit it into right) and then makes a ****ty throw to boot. Apparently he sits in the corner in the clubhouse with his headphones on away from the rest of the team, too. Get him out of here already...he can go ***** about his contract elsewhere. When you're batting .230, you don't deserve the long-term extension that you want, so stop acting like a five-year-old.

This bullpen is awful, but the defense isn't helping it one bit. Yesterday's eighth inning, Uribe boots a ball in which he could get an easy out. Instead they go on to score 3 more. Dye's effort today, Fields' problems at third. Our late inning problems are more than just the bullpen...we completely forget how to play defense, too.

santo=dorf
07-18-2007, 05:37 AM
Owens made Posednik look like Ichiro on that last throw.

veeter
07-18-2007, 06:22 AM
C'mon, I mean if you don't find this funny at this point, you don't have much of a sense of humor. Let's go Brewhas...:cool:My thoughts exactly. Uribe's slow, fat effort in the 11th, sums up where this team is. I do feel very sorry for Garland though. Bobby shouldn't be expecting a Christmas card from Jon this year. Why don't you throw more straight fastballs to great fastball hitters, dumb ass.

Frater Perdurabo
07-18-2007, 06:23 AM
Ozzie is guilty of overmanaging this year, but there isn't a manager alive who could have guided this group to the playoffs.

Excellent assessment. He shouldn't be fired, but he does have room to improve, grow and learn.

Frater Perdurabo
07-18-2007, 06:27 AM
And, just saw this (Link (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=2953)):
" Jon Garland turned in a solid performance pitching with flu-like symptoms Tuesday, allowing three runs in six innings against the Indians.

Garland's status for the outing had been in question because of his illness."

Way to battle Garland.

Indeed. Thanks for posting the link. I imagine it takes either superhuman muscle control or Immodium AD by the metric ton, to pitch under those circumstances.

Signing Buehrle was my rallying cry earlier. Now I'm going to start beating the drum to keep Garland.

SOXandILLINI
07-18-2007, 07:50 AM
There was no reason to take haeger out when the rest of the bullpen has been struggling (Jenks included)?! :angry: He and Garland were the only highlights of the night. I swear, Ozzie formulaic approach to baseball seems as if he has Steve Philips of Baseball Tonight giving him advice in the dugout.
I think Ozzie needs to watch the Seinfeld episode where George Costanza makes opposing decisions in order to have success in his life! :tongue: Bizarro world indeed.

He's a genius... :rolleyes:

SOXandILLINI
07-18-2007, 07:52 AM
My thoughts exactly. Uribe's slow, fat effort in the 11th, sums up where this team is. I do feel very sorry for Garland though. Bobby shouldn't be expecting a Christmas card from Jon this year. Why don't you throw more straight fastballs to great fastball hitters, dumb ass.

True, I do feel sorry for our starters, other than that, this is the bad news bears, both on the field and in the dugout.

SOXandILLINI
07-18-2007, 07:58 AM
I agree on all accounts.

It's just frustrating to hear, on a consistent basis, people criticizing Ozzie for his moves. It's almost as if, night-after-night someone has to grill Ozzie for a move he made.

Ozzie does have his faults, and that's not difficult to admit, but for people to blame him night-in and night-out seems ridiculous. But sadly, that's what seems to be happening.

I don't blame him night in and night out. If you want to explain away this year because of injuries, you're entitled, I guess, but we were playing very mediocre baseball before that... AND WHAT ABOUT THE 2nd HALF OF LAST YEAR??????????????

ChiSoxGirl
07-18-2007, 10:29 AM
"If you no have the ammunition, then you no win the ****ing war."

--Ozzie Guillen, 2006

Ozzie is guilty of overmanaging this year, but there isn't a manager alive who could have guided this group to the playoffs.

You are so right!

I agree on all accounts.

It's just frustrating to hear, on a consistent basis, people criticizing Ozzie for his moves. It's almost as if, night-after-night someone has to grill Ozzie for a move he made.

Ozzie does have his faults, and that's not difficult to admit, but for people to blame him night-in and night-out seems ridiculous. But sadly, that's what seems to be happening.

Since 2005, Ozzie, Kenny, and a lot of the coaching staff has been blamed for a multitude of things regarding this team and seem to be put under the microscope almost daily; it's growing old.

I've only been a Sox fan since 1989, but I don't remember people being this critical of any other manager, GM, or assembling of coaches. You're right- it does seem like Ozzie's criticized night-in and night-out, and that just doesn't seem fair to me.

wassagstdu
07-18-2007, 11:19 AM
Uribe's slow, fat effort in the 11th, sums up where this team is.

I watched that replay 5 times and I saw no evidence of lack of effort or laziness. Trying to blame Uribe's defense for any part of the problems of this team is clinically perverse.

spiffie
07-18-2007, 12:06 PM
Dye is starting to piss me off. He hit the homerun, and made a great play at the plate, but his act is getting old. He took his sweet time to get to that Michaels "double" (and this was not just today; how many times in that Wrigley series did the Cubs round the bases like it was a merry-go-round every time they hit it into right) and then makes a ****ty throw to boot. Apparently he sits in the corner in the clubhouse with his headphones on away from the rest of the team, too. Get him out of here already...he can go ***** about his contract elsewhere. When you're batting .230, you don't deserve the long-term extension that you want, so stop acting like a five-year-old.
Sorry, but this post is ****ing stupid. Last year JD was an MVP candidate. Every guy on this team has gone through a crap period this year, and I don't think any of them are getting nearly the attention that Dye is getting.

It's the same **** as 2005. He goes through one of these periods and suddenly people are ready to send him out of town.

SBSoxFan
07-18-2007, 12:17 PM
As much as I'd like to blame the bullpen, I can't get over the fact that the Sox should have scored a lot more than 5 runs. Dye strikes out on 3 pitches with the bases loaded and 2 out in the first. Pierzynski grounds out to short with runners on 2nd and 3rd and 2 out in the third (?) inning on a 3-1 count. Dye leads off the next inning with a home run. :angry: