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View Full Version : Would we have a chance if we had a bull pen ?


ThomesHomie
07-17-2007, 12:39 PM
Think about it for a second, think about all the close games we lost. Would we still have a chance if we had a solid bull pen ?

chisox77
07-17-2007, 12:41 PM
Yes.

:cool:

jenn2080
07-17-2007, 12:42 PM
Absolutely

kobo
07-17-2007, 12:43 PM
Most definitely. The starting pitching has been there for the majority of the season and the offense has been coming around lately. The Sox might only be .500 or a couple games over with a better bullpen right now, but at least they would have a chance.

Lip Man 1
07-17-2007, 12:43 PM
If the Sox could have held on to actually win say 8 of the 11 games the bullpen has already lost this season in the 7th inning or later, I think they could have a very good chance to have a 'winning' season...but winning the division?

Well not the A.L. Central...mayby the N.L. Central.

Seriously there were to many other holes / question marks / injuries on the team to keep that from happening but again with a 'decent' bullpen 82-85 wins was certainly possible.

Lip

southside rocks
07-17-2007, 12:44 PM
I think so. Even with the slow start by the offense, I think the Sox would be very much in it if the bullpen weren't such a train wreck on a daily basis.

Chicken Dinner
07-17-2007, 12:47 PM
If the Sox could have held on to actually win say 8 of the 11 games the bullpen has already lost this season in the 7th inning or later, I think they could have a very good chance to have a 'winning' season...but winning the division?

Well not the A.L. Central...mayby the N.L. Central.

Seriously there were to many other holes / question marks / injuries on the team to keep that from happening but again with a 'decent' bullpen 82-85 wins was certainly possible.

Lip

But how many of those 11 were against A.L. Central teams?

balke
07-17-2007, 01:00 PM
I think the sox'd still be 5 games out. It would've taken a combination of health from the offensive starters, and a good bullpen. Still, it would've put the Sox in a better position to make a move for the Wild Card.

lostfan
07-17-2007, 01:05 PM
They wouldn't have the wild card now, but they'd be right there in contention and they wouldn't look as hopeless as they do now. The offense is bad, but the starting pitching is great, and if the bullpen could hold leads that's all they'd need to give them a chance.

But the other holes would keep us from doing any serious damage, though.

RedHeadPaleHoser
07-17-2007, 01:09 PM
Would we be leading the division? No - our bullpen/pitching kept us in it when we weren't hitting though. We'd be 5-6 back, but at least .500 or better.

soxinem1
07-17-2007, 01:11 PM
It would be closer, but the offensive meltdown has really hurt. Even if we will ALL the games the bullpen blew, they'd still be at least six out with two teams, possibly three, ahead of them.

Lip Man 1
07-17-2007, 01:16 PM
Chicken:

Here is your answer:

Cleveland (4/4)
Detroit (4/22)
Minnesota (5/8)

Only three games which is why I thought they could have a shot at .500 but not leading the division.

The other eight games were against non divisional foes, four of them from the N.L.

Lip

oeo
07-17-2007, 01:33 PM
If the Sox could have held on to actually win say 8 of the 11 games the bullpen has already lost this season in the 7th inning or later, I think they could have a very good chance to have a 'winning' season...but winning the division?

Well not the A.L. Central...mayby the N.L. Central.

Seriously there were to many other holes / question marks / injuries on the team to keep that from happening but again with a 'decent' bullpen 82-85 wins was certainly possible.

Lip

We would definitely have a good shot at the division. Those 8 extra games would put us 7 games over .500 and roughly 5.5 out of the division with plenty of games left against both Detroit and Cleveland. With our SP and the offense coming around, we would have a great shot at making the postseason.

The Tigers will falter in the second half. They've played over their heads offensively and have crap for a bullpen; I also don't see much in Cleveland, either. Their starting pitching is okay, but their bullpen isn't that great and will have a much worse second half...though I think their offense will be better (Sizemore and Hafner attributing to that). I don't think those teams look nearly as strong as most people...so with a good bullpen, we could make a run at this thing right now, IMO. If you're going to give them 8 extra wins, then heck yeah they could win 95 games.

Crede_Fan
07-17-2007, 01:54 PM
Closer to the wild card, but atleast a winning record.

Chicken Dinner
07-17-2007, 02:01 PM
Chicken:

Here is your answer:

Cleveland (4/4)
Detroit (4/22)
Minnesota (5/8)

Only three games which is why I thought they could have a shot at .500 but not leading the division.

The other eight games were against non divisional foes, four of them from the N.L.

Lip

Yeah, I guess that 4-14 interleague record kind of dropped the anchor.

The Immigrant
07-17-2007, 02:07 PM
Yeah, I guess that 4-14 interleague record kind of dropped the anchor.

Being reminder of that stretch of games is like having someone jam a rusty knife in my side and then twist it repeatedly.

Huisj
07-17-2007, 02:40 PM
What I wonder is how many times the bullpen has turned a close game into a sure loss. I'm not talking about blowing a lead or a tie, but more about those situations where the Sox might be down 3-2 after 6 inning but then lose 10-5 because the bullpen let the other team tack on a bunch more runs to put the game out of reach.

Here's what I can come up with after looking through some boxscores:

-April 14 vs CLE: Masset gave up 2 runs in the 7th to make it a 4-0 game
-April 29 vs LAA: Jenks gave up 2 in the 9th to make it a 5-2 game
-May 1 at SEA: MacDougal inherits a runner and gives up a double to the only batter he faces, and Thornton allows the 2 inherited runners to score on a 2-out basehit to make it a 5-2 game
-May 13 vs KC: Logan allows 1 in 7th to make it a 5-1 game, then Logan and Massett allow 5 more in the 8th to make it 10-1, and then Sisco allows 1 more in the 9th to make it 11-1. Went from a 3-run game to a total blowout.
-May 16 vs NYY: Sisco allows 4 in top of 9th to make it an 8-1 game instead of a 3-run game
-May 27 vs TB: in a 5-5 game, MacDougal, Thornton, and Massett allow 3 in the 8th to make it 8-5, and then Sisco allows 3 in the 9th to make it 11-5. The Sox scored one run in the 9th and left two men on base.
-June 2 at TOR: after MacDougal and Thornton blew the game in the 7th to make it 4-3 Jays, Aardsma gives up 5 in the 8th to make it 9-3.
-June 7 vs NYY: down 4-3 going into the 9th, Prinz, Logan, and Bukvich allow 6 in the top of 9 to make it 10-3
-June 17 at PIT: After Pirates score 2 in 7th off Masset, Thornton, and MacDougal to break a 5-5 tie, MacDougal lets them tack on another run in the 8th to make it 8-5. The Sox score 2 in the 9th and leave a man on 2nd.
-June 20 vs FLA: After Jenks blows the save with a 3-run homer in the 8th to make it 4-2 Marlins, he gives us another run in the 9th. Sox score one in the 8th and one in the 9th to lose 5-4.
-June 22 at CHC: Cubs leading 2-1 going into the 9th, Masset, Bukvich, and Thornton allow 3 runs to make it 5-1 Cubs.
-July 4 vs BAL: Already losing 6-2, Aardsma gives up 2 in the 6th to make it 8-2. After the Sox score a run, he gives up one more in the 7th to make it 9-3. Sox score 3 in the 9th to lose 9-6.
-July 6 vs MIN: Garland gets bombed, Sox are down 12-4 after 4 innings. Masset gives up 6 more and Day gives up 2 to ensure the loss even though the Sox score 10 more runs to lose 20-14.

areilly
07-17-2007, 02:45 PM
I agree that we'd be in the Wild Card race, but still 5-7 games out. This team's hitting woes were just too much to make up the difference even a lights-out bullpen would've meant. If this team finishes at .500 I'd consider them a Miracle Team.

UserNameBlank
07-17-2007, 03:53 PM
If the Sox could have held on to actually win say 8 of the 11 games the bullpen has already lost this season in the 7th inning or later, I think they could have a very good chance to have a 'winning' season...but winning the division?

Well not the A.L. Central...mayby the N.L. Central.

Seriously there were to many other holes / question marks / injuries on the team to keep that from happening but again with a 'decent' bullpen 82-85 wins was certainly possible.

Lip
Totally agree with this. We'd be better but we still wouldn't be all that good, certainly not good enough to beat Cleveland and Detroit... especially Detroit, they are a pretty sick team.

Foulke You
07-17-2007, 03:58 PM
Yeah, I guess that 4-14 interleague record kind of dropped the anchor.
That stretch pretty much ended any hopes for the season. There was just no excuse to play that poorly against bad NL teams. The only decent NL team we saw in that stretch was the Phillies.:(:

Lip Man 1
07-17-2007, 06:26 PM
All I can say is that folks were questioning Detroit last year and 'somehow' they won 95 games. They are on pace to win around that number again.

I can see luck in a single season but not two in a row...they are a pretty good club.

Huis:

Here are the dates of the games the bullpen lost when they had the ball in their hands and the lead in the 7th inning or later:

4/4, 4/10, 4/22, 5/8, 5/18, 5/19, 6/2, 6/19, 6/20, 7/2, 7/14.

I don't know how that compares with your list.

Lip

oeo
07-17-2007, 06:28 PM
All I can say is that folks were questioning Detroit last year and 'somehow' they won 95 games. They are on pace to win around that number again.

I can see luck in a single season but not two in a row...they are a pretty good club.

They're a different team than they were last year. This year they have a terrible bullpen and an offense that's playing way over their heads. Sounds a lot like us last year.

And let's not forget that the 2006 Tigers didn't even win the division, and had our best SP had an average year, wouldn't even have made the postseason.

JB98
07-17-2007, 06:34 PM
No question, we would still be in it if we had a bullpen. We'd be about five over .500, give or take a couple games. We'd probably still be in fourth place, but with the number of divisional games remaining, we would still be able to call ourselves contenders.

Chicken Dinner
07-18-2007, 11:02 AM
Chicken:

Here is your answer:

Cleveland (4/4)
Detroit (4/22)
Minnesota (5/8)

Only three games which is why I thought they could have a shot at .500 but not leading the division.

The other eight games were against non divisional foes, four of them from the N.L.

Lip

Cleveland (7/17)

Railsplitter
07-18-2007, 12:02 PM
Think about it for a second, think about all the close games we lost. Would we still have a chance if we had a solid bull pen ?
Absolutely. No doubt in my mind.

PKalltheway
07-18-2007, 12:25 PM
Yes we would. Teams like the Indians and Braves would have been in contention last year if they didn't have such bad bullpens. A good bullpen means a lot.

WhiteSox5187
07-18-2007, 12:33 PM
I think if the bullpen were better we'd be where the Twins are now and once the offense started to come around (which I think it is doing now), we'd start to make our run.

Frater Perdurabo
07-18-2007, 06:25 PM
Chicken:

Here is your answer:

Cleveland (4/4)
Detroit (4/22)
Minnesota (5/8)

Only three games which is why I thought they could have a shot at .500 but not leading the division.

The other eight games were against non divisional foes, four of them from the N.L.

Lip

Yeah, I guess that 4-14 interleague record kind of dropped the anchor.

4-14 against the NL was inexcusable. They had one win against FLA, one against PIT, one against the Cubs and one against the Astros. Pathetic.

Win those four NL blown leads, plus pick up four games against the AL, and suddenly we're around .500, just a good trade away from making a serious run at the Wild Card.