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View Full Version : Jerry Owens- Yea or Nay....


Tragg
07-16-2007, 11:26 PM
Can he develop into a major leaguer that can walk some and slap hit his way on base?

Walking isn't exactly a White Sox strong point, but he'll need to learn. I figure that he'll need an OBP of .360+ to be particularly useful, with his lack of power.

Can he do it?

He looked safe on that bunt that ESPN called a "web gem"

chisoxmike
07-16-2007, 11:28 PM
I wouldn't be to pleased with him starting in '08.

Nay.

MUsoxfan
07-16-2007, 11:28 PM
I don't think he's that good. I've watched him lay down a couple great slug-bunts, but that's about all he's contributed. He'll need to become a more rounded hitter to be successful at this level

oeo
07-16-2007, 11:30 PM
It would be nice because he can flat out fly, but I don't think he'll ever be an everyday lead off hitter.

sox1970
07-16-2007, 11:31 PM
Owens is brutal.

UserNameBlank
07-16-2007, 11:33 PM
I vote nay but I want him to get a shot anyway; at least this year since we have nothing else. I do think he could stick as a 4th OF though since he can get a bunt down, steal a base, and play CF.

Oldschoolsoxguy
07-16-2007, 11:34 PM
Nay as an everyday guy.He's got a long way to go.Not major league
material at this point.But he fits in with this team.:(:

Chicken Dinner
07-16-2007, 11:36 PM
I'd rather have Owens in in the CF rather then Mack, Timo, or Pods. He hits better when he plays center rather then left also.

SoxRox
07-16-2007, 11:36 PM
I think Owens has a lot of potential. If the guy could just provide a little consitency in the hitting dept. he would be all right. The man is fast runner and a serious SB threat - if he can get on base.

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

As they say..."you can't teach speed".

-SoxRox

slavko
07-16-2007, 11:37 PM
AAA, AAA, AAA. Not here, not now. Ever? Never say never.

Sockinchisox
07-16-2007, 11:43 PM
I love his speed, he's shown pretty good improvement at the plate, if they can't sign Castillo to lead off your pretty much stuck with Owens as the starting LF next year/lead off hitter. I wouldn't be totally opposed to it.

I'm somewhere in the middle haha.

jabrch
07-16-2007, 11:48 PM
I could live with Owens at the plate if he was our worst hitter. The problem is that Owens arm is so bad that he is a liability in any OF spot. I'd be fine with him as a 4th OF.

JB98
07-17-2007, 02:07 AM
Nay.

He can run, but that's about it. Guys with good fastballs can knock the bat out of his hands. He has a long swing and has yet to show he can drive balls in the gaps. It's a damn good thing he can bunt a little bit because that's the only way he can get on base consistently.

I see him as being like Mike Caruso. Eventually opposing teams will start playing the infield up, and Owens will have a very difficult time reaching base.

oeo
07-17-2007, 03:54 AM
Nay.

He can run, but that's about it. Guys with good fastballs can knock the bat out of his hands. He has a long swing and has yet to show he can drive balls in the gaps. It's a damn good thing he can bunt a little bit because that's the only way he can get on base consistently.

I see him as being like Mike Caruso. Eventually opposing teams will start playing the infield up, and Owens will have a very difficult time reaching base.

I don't think Owens will ever be an everyday player, but his bunting ability is going to get him more hits. When the infielders come in, you take the Luis Castillo approach and just hit the ball into the ground...chop it over their heads. Not to mention, they will be more likely to give him something to hit so he doesn't bunt his way on. He has a very valuable tool if he can consistently do it.

lostfan
07-17-2007, 08:32 AM
You guys are pretty harsh... he's a rookie. He barely has 100 major-league ABs. For the time being, it doesn't matter how he gets on base as long as he does it. He's batting .325 with a .386 OBP so far this month, which is not too shabby at all. It's true that he has a lot of infield and bunt singles, but that's a good thing if you ask me... he's wicked fast. I saw him in person, he just blazes down the base line.

He doesn't hit a whole lot of line drives, he grounds out a lot, and his BB/K ratio still needs some work, but he's been steadily getting better as he's gotten more at-bats. Yes the opposing infields will eventually start creeping up on him but keep in mind that he's still adjusting to major-league pitching so if he keeps improving that won't be a factor. He doesn't have as long to go as we think... we just need to be patient.

At the rate he's been developing, I really don't even want to see the Sox' version of the DL twins back in the starting lineup. Owens might have a ceiling that's higher than we think.

Ron Mexico
07-17-2007, 10:16 AM
You guys are pretty harsh... he's a rookie. He barely has 100 major-league ABs. For the time being, it doesn't matter how he gets on base as long as he does it. He's batting .325 with a .386 OBP so far this month, which is not too shabby at all. It's true that he has a lot of infield and bunt singles, but that's a good thing if you ask me... he's wicked fast. I saw him in person, he just blazes down the base line.

He doesn't hit a whole lot of line drives, he grounds out a lot, and his BB/K ratio still needs some work, but he's been steadily getting better as he's gotten more at-bats. Yes the opposing infields will eventually start creeping up on him but keep in mind that he's still adjusting to major-league pitching so if he keeps improving that won't be a factor. He doesn't have as long to go as we think... we just need to be patient.

At the rate he's been developing, I really don't even want to see the Sox' version of the DL twins back in the starting lineup. Owens might have a ceiling that's higher than we think.


I'm aligned with your thinking. He doesn't hit the ball with authority, but the combination of his bunting ability and speed is lethal. In addition, it appears he can steal effectively swipe a base.

He deserves an opportunity to prove us wrong, especially since he is starting to show positive returns. We have to ride this out to find out if this is a two/three week run or if he can continue to contribute at the MLB level.

jabrch
07-17-2007, 11:27 AM
It is so trendy and cool to knock guys who are slap hitters.




I also think it is completely ignorant to believe that these guys can not be successful. Owens COULD be a Juan Pierre type player in many ways. I know it is really trendy for some segment of fans to hate Juan Pierre, because he doesn't SLG, but I'd absolutely love to have a guy like that at the top of the order. If he can hit .280/.300 with an OBP of .330/.350, steal 50 bases, and patrol CF, I'd tolerate his rubber arm and his lack of power. He's 12 for his last 35. That's encouraging. Given where our season is right now, I want to see Owens play nearly every day between CF and LF.

balke
07-17-2007, 11:31 AM
Its also trendy to think every young player is going to click. I like the ceiling on Owens, but I'm undecided on whether he is contributing. He's scoring a good amount of runs, but I'll have to see how well he plays the rest of the season. He already pulled a hammy once, and if the bat stays like it is, he's not worth counting on next season.

SpartanSoxFan
07-17-2007, 11:35 AM
If it was possible to steal 1st base, I'd be all about Jerry Owens. Unfortunately, he can't hit major league pitching, so I'd have to say Nay.

jabrch
07-17-2007, 11:38 AM
If it was possible to steal 1st base, I'd be all about Jerry Owens. Unfortunately, he can't hit major league pitching, so I'd have to say Nay.

You don't think it is a bit early to draw that conclusion? He's 12 for his last 35. He's a .296/.363 hitter in the minors. How can you conclude that he can't hit major league pitching?

jabrch
07-17-2007, 11:39 AM
if the bat stays like it is, he's not worth counting on next season.

Since settling in - he's 12 of 35. Small sample size I know - but I don't see how he isn't worth having in the plans, either as the CF if you are spending money elsewhere, or as the 4th OF.

palehozenychicty
07-17-2007, 11:40 AM
It is so trendy and cool to knock guys who are slap hitters.




I also think it is completely ignorant to believe that these guys can not be successful. Owens COULD be a Juan Pierre type player in many ways. I know it is really trendy for some segment of fans to hate Juan Pierre, because he doesn't SLG, but I'd absolutely love to have a guy like that at the top of the order. If he can hit .280/.300 with an OBP of .330/.350, steal 50 bases, and patrol CF, I'd tolerate his rubber arm and his lack of power. He's 12 for his last 35. That's encouraging. Given where our season is right now, I want to see Owens play nearly every day between CF and LF.


Exactly. People need to quit hating and give the guy a chance to play. He's playing with heart and energy, at least. Something good may come out of it. Sheesh. :rolleyes:

jabrch
07-17-2007, 11:41 AM
Exactly. People need to quit hating and give the guy a chance to play. He's playing with heart and energy, at least. Something good may come out of it. Sheesh. :rolleyes:

It's more than just "heart and energy". He's playing WELL.

I don't like his rag arm, but you can't say he hasn't been a positive contributor lately for the league minimum.

lostfan
07-17-2007, 11:43 AM
Its also trendy to think every young player is going to click. I like the ceiling on Owens, but I'm undecided on whether he is contributing. He's scoring a good amount of runs, but I'll have to see how well he plays the rest of the season. He already pulled a hammy once, and if the bat stays like it is, he's not worth counting on next season.
It's not so much "thinking" he's going to click as it is the fact that I believe his steady improvement and hustle have earned him the opportunity to show whether or not he has the potential to be a bona fide leadoff hitter, especially considering the team's needs there. IMO he has shown the same at the MLB level that Sweeney has (relative to his role).

Dice
07-17-2007, 11:43 AM
I say yea. Owens has a mentality that I like. He's a guy who tries to get on base any way he can.

lostfan
07-17-2007, 11:45 AM
Exactly. People need to quit hating and give the guy a chance to play. He's playing with heart and energy, at least. Something good may come out of it. Sheesh. :rolleyes:
Yeah... I hate when people just look straight at the numbers and say "nope, he sucks." We've got to give these young guys a chance, if we expect them all to be Ted Williams and Albert Pujols as soon as they get called up, we'll never get anything.

palehozenychicty
07-17-2007, 12:19 PM
It's more than just "heart and energy". He's playing WELL.

I don't like his rag arm, but you can't say he hasn't been a positive contributor lately for the league minimum.

That's what I'm saying, that he's playing well. Love it, nourish it, encourage it. Give the guy some credit, for once.

NorthSideSox72
07-17-2007, 12:30 PM
I don't think we can say yes or no yet on Owens. He has some of the right tools and is a phenomonal athlete. I think he is likely to be at least a 4th OF, and maybe a starter, at some point. And right now, I'd rather see him playing than Pods, Mack, Terrero, Gonzalez or even Erstad. At this point, its all about 2008 and what might work. So let's give Jerry a chance to show his stuff.

chisox77
07-17-2007, 12:32 PM
Yay for Owens. I like his speed, and many guys like him have developed into good MLB hitters. During last Saturday's game against Baltimore, Hawk and DJ had an interesting conversation about Owens, as well as other like players who needed to slap and bunt their way on base when they started. I liked DJ's comparison to Otis Nixon, who eventually turned into a real good player.

So play Owens throughout. Find out. Let's see what happens. He seems to be getting more comfortable.

:cool:

SpartanSoxFan
07-17-2007, 12:43 PM
You don't think it is a bit early to draw that conclusion? He's 12 for his last 35. He's a .296/.363 hitter in the minors. How can you conclude that he can't hit major league pitching?

He's in the middle of a hot streak right now, I'll give you that. However, his overall stats thus far aren't impressive.

With 93 total Major League ABs, his average is a paltry .237. and his On Base Percentage is a crappy .290. He can't take advantage of his speed unless he can get to 1st base, and 29% of the time doesn't cut it at the major league level. You may be right though, lets come back to this discussion after another 100 ABs and see where he's at. Hopefully, he'll prove me wrong, because I do enjoy seeing what he can do when he CAN get on base.

balke
07-17-2007, 01:02 PM
IMO he has shown the same at the MLB level that Sweeney has (relative to his role).

Which is essentially nothing. A spark of hope at best. Owens can play out the majority of this season, cause they need him right now. Next season, I don't want to see him on the starting roster at this point.

lostfan
07-17-2007, 01:03 PM
He's in the middle of a hot streak right now, I'll give you that. However, his overall stats thus far aren't impressive.

With 93 total Major League ABs, his average is a paltry .237. and his On Base Percentage is a crappy .290. He can't take advantage of his speed unless he can get to 1st base, and 29% of the time doesn't cut it at the major league level. You may be right though, lets come back to this discussion after another 100 ABs and see where he's at. Hopefully, he'll prove me wrong, because I do enjoy seeing what he can do when he CAN get on base.
Geez man, do you expect every rookie prospect to come in and be red hot like Delmon Young was last year?

lostfan
07-17-2007, 01:06 PM
Which is essentially nothing. A spark of hope at best. Owens can play out the majority of this season, cause they need him right now. Next season, I don't want to see him on the starting roster at this point.
...And if he continues to play like this and improve, what will you say then?

Same applies to Sweeney.

SpartanSoxFan
07-17-2007, 01:07 PM
Geez man, do you expect every rookie prospect to come in and be red hot like Delmon Young was last year?

No, but it would be nice to see at least ONE of the Sox' prospects to show signs that he could pan out. Over the past few years we've seen the "Can't Miss" prospects like Joe Borchard, Brian Anderson et al. come and go after they failed to hit major league pitching on a consistent basis. I'm not expecting him to be a major league all-star, just come to each at-bat with a consistent approach rather than looking like a deer in headlights all the time.

veeter
07-17-2007, 01:10 PM
PLay him everyday the rest of the year. I'll have an answer then.

balke
07-17-2007, 01:11 PM
Since settling in - he's 12 of 35. Small sample size I know - but I don't see how he isn't worth having in the plans, either as the CF if you are spending money elsewhere, or as the 4th OF.

Yeah and Luis "Thunder" Terrero had a Hr off of Johan Santana, and 5 Jacks in under 50 at bats. 50 at bats later, stuck on 5 with 1 double in 100 at-bats.

Notify me when he can get on base over .300 and I'll tell you whether or not he can lead off. 35 at-bats doesn't prove anything. All he is is hope. I'd rather see Ozuna at lead-off and in the OF than Owens at this point.

soxinem1
07-17-2007, 01:22 PM
KC just sent down Joey Gathright, who was actually playing regularly and hitting. I think he has more tools. Owens looks very limited to me.

seventyseven
07-17-2007, 01:22 PM
You guys are pretty harsh... he's a rookie. He barely has 100 major-league ABs. For the time being, it doesn't matter how he gets on base as long as he does it. He's batting .325 with a .386 OBP so far this month, which is not too shabby at all. It's true that he has a lot of infield and bunt singles, but that's a good thing if you ask me... he's wicked fast. I saw him in person, he just blazes down the base line.

He doesn't hit a whole lot of line drives, he grounds out a lot, and his BB/K ratio still needs some work, but he's been steadily getting better as he's gotten more at-bats. Yes the opposing infields will eventually start creeping up on him but keep in mind that he's still adjusting to major-league pitching so if he keeps improving that won't be a factor. He doesn't have as long to go as we think... we just need to be patient.

At the rate he's been developing, I really don't even want to see the Sox' version of the DL twins back in the starting lineup. Owens might have a ceiling that's higher than we think.

Owens is 26 years old, and will be 27 by next spring training. He is rapidly approaching his ceiling, if it he has not already reached it. He takes the same swings at bad pitches now as he did his first week with the team. The odds are very much against him being an everyday player.

balke
07-17-2007, 01:29 PM
KC just sent down Joey Gathright, who was actually playing regularly and hitting. I think he has more tools. Owens looks very limited to me.

Wow, that's very telling that the KC Royals are sending down Gathright, and the Sox are playing Owens everyday. No wonder we're fighting for 4th in the division.

jabrch
07-17-2007, 01:32 PM
Yeah and Luis "Thunder" Terrero had a Hr off of Johan Santana, and 5 Jacks in under 50 at bats. 50 at bats later, stuck on 5 with 1 double in 100 at-bats.

It is highly inaccurate to compare a journeyman with nearly 600 ABs in the majors over 5 years who never even really excelled (in terms of the power you are talking about) in the minors in his 9 years and 2500 ABs to a guy who has been fairly effective in all of his 4 minor league seasons and is now in his first real time in the majors.

That's irresponsible manipulation of statistics.

lostfan
07-17-2007, 01:38 PM
No, but it would be nice to see at least ONE of the Sox' prospects to show signs that he could pan out. Over the past few years we've seen the "Can't Miss" prospects like Joe Borchard, Brian Anderson et al. come and go after they failed to hit major league pitching on a consistent basis. I'm not expecting him to be a major league all-star, just come to each at-bat with a consistent approach rather than looking like a deer in headlights all the time.
But IMO Owens IS showing signs. He's adjusting and finding ways to get on base and eventually he'll have more than just bunt and infield single ability if he keeps this up.

We can't decide at this point whether he is or isn't a MLB caliber player because he needs at least 200 more ABs for us to see where he'll be. But if the question is "does he have the potential to be a solid major leaguer" I think the answer is yes, absolutely.

lostfan
07-17-2007, 01:40 PM
Owens is 26 years old, and will be 27 by next spring training. He is rapidly approaching his ceiling, if it he has not already reached it. He takes the same swings at bad pitches now as he did his first week with the team. The odds are very much against him being an everyday player.
Nobody will ever know if he'll be a major leaguer until he plays in the major leagues. If he stays in AAA indefinitely, that's all he'll ever amount to. You can't learn to hit major league pitching without actually seeing it.

balke
07-17-2007, 01:45 PM
It is highly inaccurate to compare a journeyman with nearly 600 ABs in the majors over 5 years who never even really excelled (in terms of the power you are talking about) in the minors in his 9 years and 2500 ABs to a guy who has been fairly effective in all of his 4 minor league seasons and is now in his first real time in the majors.

That's irresponsible manipulation of statistics.



I'm not comparing stats, more the thought process of Sox fans this season, that awesome power in limited at-bats means a guy should be starting everyday in CF, the way a guy strikes out shows he should be getting consistant play in RF, 12 hits in 35 at-bats means a guy who can't hit in the minors is going to breakout from here on out, one player who hit above .300 in July last season should be getting more playing time this season.

If you want a comparison of stats, Gathright and Owens is a great comparison. Gathright wasn't good enough for the Devil Rays or the Royals. Why should Owens be good enough for the White Sox? Gathright was a better hitter in the minors and the pros, and has more speed.

seventyseven
07-17-2007, 01:56 PM
Nobody will ever know if he'll be a major leaguer until he plays in the major leagues. If he stays in AAA indefinitely, that's all he'll ever amount to. You can't learn to hit major league pitching without actually seeing it.

I agree, but you don't give a 26 year-old the same chances as a 21 year-old. If he was really any good, he would have been in the majors earlier.

lostfan
07-17-2007, 01:59 PM
I agree, but you don't give a 26 year-old the same chances as a 21 year-old. If he was really any good, he would have been in the majors earlier.
The OF was pretty crowded before then... Pods and Dye certainly weren't going anywhere, Rowand wasn't in '05 either, and there was no reason to call him up ahead of Anderson even while he was struggling. He was in the proverbial AAA parking lot. When you're on the AAA squad of a good team, the chances are you'll have to wait a while or hope to get traded to somebody that wants to start a young player.

jabrch
07-17-2007, 02:24 PM
If you want a comparison of stats, Gathright and Owens is a great comparison. Gathright wasn't good enough for the Devil Rays or the Royals. Why should Owens be good enough for the White Sox? Gathright was a better hitter in the minors and the pros, and has more speed.

Because Gathright was crunched out by a team that had too many signed veterans that had to play to be showcased for trades. Gath had parts of 4 years in the bigs, and will be back. Nobody has given up on Joey yet. This is Owens first shot at the bigs - and he deserves a bit more of a chance than some of our fans seem willing to give him in this mess of a season.

lostfan
07-17-2007, 02:36 PM
By the way, when has the label "he couldn't hit in the minors" ever applied to Owens? IIRC, he only had one mediocre season and that was in 2006 at Charlotte. Every other year, including this year, he's been at, near, or above .300.

thomas35forever
07-17-2007, 03:03 PM
I got ahead of myself when I said he could be the offensive spark the White Sox need to turn their season around. I'd say nay if he wasn't a decent base stealer. However, since he's a rookie, I'll give him time to develop.

balke
07-17-2007, 03:15 PM
By the way, when has the label "he couldn't hit in the minors" ever applied to Owens? IIRC, he only had one mediocre season and that was in 2006 at Charlotte. Every other year, including this year, he's been at, near, or above .300.

So has Brian Anderson. The #'s just didn't translate. And Charlotte is AAA, the rest of his #'s are coming from AA or A. The #'s look okay, but I wouldn't bet the bank that the Sox can't find someone better for next season.

lostfan
07-17-2007, 03:24 PM
So has Brian Anderson. The #'s just didn't translate. And Charlotte is AAA, the rest of his #'s are coming from AA or A. The #'s look okay, but I wouldn't bet the bank that the Sox can't find someone better for next season.
It's totally unfair to him to say that the numbers CAN'T translate after 100 MLB at-bats. How many players have that work out for them right away?

Huisj
07-17-2007, 03:43 PM
The OF was pretty crowded before then... Pods and Dye certainly weren't going anywhere, Rowand wasn't in '05 either, and there was no reason to call him up ahead of Anderson even while he was struggling. He was in the proverbial AAA parking lot. When you're on the AAA squad of a good team, the chances are you'll have to wait a while or hope to get traded to somebody that wants to start a young player.

I know this gets dragged out about Owens a lot, but I think it's a somewhat legitimate point concerning his age and development. He was a football player until just a few years ago. His bio says he didn't play baseball his last two years of high school, and then he played football for two years at UCLA. He then played one year of college ball somewhere, and then got drafted. That's a lot of time missed. He went from UCLA receiver who hadn't played baseball in 4 years to being a major leaguer over a 5-year span.

lostfan
07-17-2007, 04:03 PM
I know this gets dragged out about Owens a lot, but I think it's a somewhat legitimate point concerning his age and development. He was a football player until just a few years ago. His bio says he didn't play baseball his last two years of high school, and then he played football for two years at UCLA. He then played one year of college ball somewhere, and then got drafted. That's a lot of time missed. He went from UCLA receiver who hadn't played baseball in 4 years to being a major leaguer over a 5-year span.
I'd experienced something like that with my high school team when I moved from Chicago Heights and started going to HS on the south side. A lot of those guys were really good athletes but had never played baseball a day in their life so you could see the really raw talent but it would take a while to develop... like our CF ended the season as the best player on the team but at the beginning of the year he could barely hit.

UserNameBlank
07-17-2007, 04:12 PM
Because Gathright was crunched out by a team that had too many signed veterans that had to play to be showcased for trades. Gath had parts of 4 years in the bigs, and will be back. Nobody has given up on Joey yet. This is Owens first shot at the bigs - and he deserves a bit more of a chance than some of our fans seem willing to give him in this mess of a season.
I can't agree on Gathright. He's not a baseball player; he just runs. And really, on a baseball diamond he doesn't run incredibly well as far as stealing is concerned. He is like what Willie Harris was for us, only much less talented.

Gathright, in 1438 minor league AB's, has a total of 55 extra base hits. That's pretty pathetic. Of those he only has 12 triples and one home run, which probably means a lot of his doubles aren't really major league doubles, just hustle doubles in the minors. He's also gone 192-for-249 in SB attempts (77%) which IMO isn't good enough for a guy who doesn't bring anything else to the table.

IMO, Gathright will never be anything more than a 4th OF/pinch runner in the majors. The Royals have indeed given up on him, as TB did, and I'd be extremely surprised to see him as an everyday starter in the big leagues ever again.

jabrch
07-17-2007, 04:14 PM
IMO, Gathright will never be anything more than a 4th OF/pinch runner in the majors. The Royals have indeed given up on him, as TB did, and I'd be extremely surprised to see him as an everyday starter in the big leagues ever again.

Have you seen his statistics this year?

If the Royals didn't need to get PT to try and showcase their veterans, Gathright would still be on the team.

KenBerryGrab
07-17-2007, 05:23 PM
Paging Nyls Nyman....

JB98
07-17-2007, 06:54 PM
Geez man, do you expect every rookie prospect to come in and be red hot like Delmon Young was last year?

Of course not.

If this thread were about Josh Fields, my answer would be "Yea." My answer on Jerry Owens is "Nay."

I'm not expecting greatness from any rookie, especially not one from our farm system. It's more about looking at a guy's swing and approach at the plate than the numbers. Right now, Owens looks like a guy who can run and not much else.

If they want to play him the rest of year, that's fine with me. I'm not adverse to looking at young players, especially in the situation we're in. But if I'm being asked to take a guess right now about Jerry Owens, I'm not overly excited.

UserNameBlank
07-18-2007, 04:48 PM
Have you seen his statistics this year?

If the Royals didn't need to get PT to try and showcase their veterans, Gathright would still be on the team.
I've seen his numbers this year. He hits singles off of Triple A pitching. He's also walked much better there this year, which IMO is a sign of the level of competition he is facing. Major league pitchers aren't going to mess around with punchin' judy singles hitters like Gathright; they will attack their weaknesses and get them out.

Believe me, with the state the Royals are in, they are not going to take time away from a deserving prospect who is MLB ready in order to showcase an old player that they could get nothing more than an organizational prospect for. Gathright's time is up.

Edit: BTW, as I mentioned in the above post, Gathright has 55 XBH in 1,438 minor league AB's. Timo Perez has 43 XBH in 370 AB's in Triple A just this year alone.

jabrch
07-18-2007, 04:57 PM
I've seen his numbers this year. He hits singles off of Triple A pitching. He's also walked much better there this year, which IMO is a sign of the level of competition he is facing. Major league pitchers aren't going to mess around with punchin' judy singles hitters like Gathright; they will attack their weaknesses and get them out.

Believe me, with the state the Royals are in, they are not going to take time away from a deserving prospect who is MLB ready in order to showcase an old player that they could get nothing more than an organizational prospect for. Gathright's time is up.

Edit: BTW, as I mentioned in the above post, Gathright has 55 XBH in 1,438 minor league AB's. Timo Perez has 43 XBH in 370 AB's in Triple A just this year alone.


You haven't seen his numbes obviously if the best you can say is that "he hits singles off of Triple A pitching". He's hitting .315/.390 off of MAJOR LEAGUE pitching.

There's plenty of room in MLB for guys like Gathright, Pierre and Owens regardless of what their SLG% is.

UserNameBlank
07-18-2007, 06:06 PM
You haven't seen his numbes obviously if the best you can say is that "he hits singles off of Triple A pitching". He's hitting .315/.390 off of MAJOR LEAGUE pitching.

There's plenty of room in MLB for guys like Gathright, Pierre and Owens regardless of what their SLG% is.
Look at his hit chart in comparison to other singles hitters. In Kaufman stadium this year, including outs, he's hit a total of 8 balls out of the infield. He makes contact and tries to beat out little grounders, unlike most singles hitters who can actually reach the OF. His numbers this year are out of a small sample size and IMO will not last. Gathright is certainly one of the weakest hitters in all of MLB, and quite possibly the weakest.

As far as comparing him to Owens and Pierre, again compare their hit charts. Owens and Pierre both hit the ball out of the infield. I'd take either over Gathright without thinking twice. In fact, I'm not a huge fan of Owens but I'd say Gathright can't even sniff Jerry's jock, that's how bad he is. All Gathright has are his legs, which again is why he'll never be more than a pinch runner.

getonbckthr
07-18-2007, 06:08 PM
With time and experience at the big league level (07 lost season) he will be better than Scott Podsednik.

MetroPD
07-18-2007, 06:18 PM
I say move Owens to SS and bring back BA to CF. At this point, anything is worth a shot to get that worthless scrub Uribe off the field.

lostfan
07-18-2007, 06:19 PM
I say move Owens to SS and bring back BA to CF. At this point, anything is worth a shot to get that worthless scrub Uribe off the field.
You want Anderson to play even with a cast on his hand?

getonbckthr
07-18-2007, 06:19 PM
I say move Owens to SS and bring back BA to CF. At this point, anything is worth a shot to get that worthless scrub Uribe off the field.
Isn't Owens a lefty?

RCWHITESOX
07-18-2007, 06:22 PM
Yay for Owens. I like his speed, and many guys like him have developed into good MLB hitters. During last Saturday's game against Baltimore, Hawk and DJ had an interesting conversation about Owens, as well as other like players who needed to slap and bunt their way on base when they started. I liked DJ's comparison to Otis Nixon, who eventually turned into a real good player.

So play Owens throughout. Find out. Let's see what happens. He seems to be getting more comfortable.

:cool:

I like him as well except how can he play CF when he has a below average arm. We could afford to play him in LF if we go out and get a legitmate CF and RF. To bad he can't play SS God knows we need one.

lostfan
07-19-2007, 09:33 AM
It seems to me that Owens has shortened his swing and he's hitting more liners to the OF lately, or is it just me?

hose
07-19-2007, 09:53 AM
I say move Owens to SS and bring back BA to CF. At this point, anything is worth a shot to get that worthless scrub Uribe off the field.

I assume you mean Andy Gonzales at short, not Owens.

hose
07-19-2007, 09:54 AM
Isn't Owens a lefty?

bats -L
throws- L
thinks-R:D:

hose
07-19-2007, 09:55 AM
Keep playing Owens for the rest of the year and see what happens.

Pods is going to be gone after the season ends if not sooner.

SBSoxFan
07-19-2007, 10:58 AM
I agree, but you don't give a 26 year-old the same chances as a 21 year-old. If he was really any good, he would have been in the majors earlier.

No. Owens is behind in baseball because he concentrated on playing football at UCLA. Considering he's had some success at the ML level despite little baseball training speaks to what a tremendous athlete he is.

NorthSideSox72
07-19-2007, 11:02 AM
No. Owens is behind in baseball because he concentrated on playing football at UCLA. Considering he's had some success at the ML level despite little baseball training speaks to what a tremendous athlete he is.
That's an important point, and the same goes for a few other players in the system. Some guys don't make it until they are 26 or 27, not because they sucked, but because they were maturing as ballplayers in the system. Donny Lucy is another example, since he only started one year in college as a catcher (he was stuck behind Ryan Garko). But Owens learned baseball in the organization, for most purposes.

Age should be a consideration, but I think some people use it to make assumptions that aren't always accurate.

southside rocks
07-19-2007, 11:15 AM
Keep playing Owens for the rest of the year and see what happens.

Pods is going to be gone after the season ends if not sooner.

I second this.

Owens is a valuable type of player to have around. If he's not an everyday player, he could be a great bench guy, an Ozuna type. Give him some good playing time and evaluate him at the end of the season.

Heck, it's not like he's the player who's going to keep the Sox from the post-season this year.

Flight #24
07-19-2007, 12:35 PM
FWLIW, since his recall, Owens is hitting .320 with a .382 OBP and is 5/8 in SBs. Those #s are in line with his A and AA stats (but a lot better than AAA).

Small sample size, I know, but if he can be a .285 / .360 leadoff guy for us, that's basically a cheaper, less injury prone version of Podsednik. And if he's .300/.380, the Sox have a great leadoff guy for 2008 which lets them focus on general hitters rather than that elusive top of the order guy.

billcissell
07-19-2007, 01:05 PM
This guy is a one-trick pony.

He has outstanding speed however ...

His swing is too long, not very good at laying down a bunt, seems overmatched especially against lefties, decent in center but seems out of position in left, doesn't have a very good eye at the plate, below average arm.

Basically, he's a good AAA player. Just another guy Williams overrated. He has the rest of the season to prove otherwise, but he would be lucky to be a fourth of fifth outfielder on a major league club.

kevingrt
07-19-2007, 01:19 PM
Yea when I saw him from Monday through Wednesday in Cleveland. Besides the fact he can't get the ball to the warning track he is OK.

jabrch
07-19-2007, 02:34 PM
His swing is too long

I'm not sure I agree with that.

not very good at laying down a bunt

I know that's not true.

, seems overmatched especially against lefties,

He didn't look overmatched against Westbrook. He didn't look overmatched against Cliff Lee. What lefties did he look overmatched against?

decent in center but seems out of position in left,

I think that's backwards. His arm doesn't belong in CF, but he's a strong LF.

below average arm.

Actually, he's got a TERRIBLE arm. That's his biggest problem.


Basically, he's a good AAA player.

He's got the skills and the talent to be a very effective MLB player. He had done a lot of things well at all levels of play, and is showing it now. There's no way that based on 100 ABs you can reasonably conclude his ceiling is AAA with his raw talents.

Just another guy Williams overrated. He has the rest of the season to prove otherwise, but he would be lucky to be a fourth of fifth outfielder on a major league club.

You must be another one of those GMs out there who posts incognito on message boards who knows more than KW. Jerry Owens has all the tools to be an effective leadoff hitter in the majors. He's shown it since coming back up. JO has hit 15 for his last 45. His average during that time is up from .172 to .243. I don't see any way possible you can draw the conclusion that he would be lucky to be a fourth of fifth OF on a major league club given what he has shown us.

lostfan
07-19-2007, 02:55 PM
His swing is too long, not very good at laying down a bunt,

It's looking like he's shortening his swing since coming up, and besides that's something that's entirely coachable considering his experience level...

But that second part is flat-out wrong... he can bunt his way on as good as anyone. In fact that's how he started heating up.

jabrch
07-20-2007, 12:30 AM
It's looking like he's shortening his swing since coming up, and besides that's something that's entirely coachable considering his experience level...

But that second part is flat-out wrong... he can bunt his way on as good as anyone. In fact that's how he started heating up.

JO Just legged out another bunt hit.

GregO23
07-20-2007, 12:31 AM
The kids a grinder. Ill keep him on the roster the rest of the year. Get rid of erstad, or atleast start him over erstad.

Frater Perdurabo
07-20-2007, 07:45 AM
I'm going to withhold judgment until comprehension is complete. I'd like to see more of Owens. Maybe he could be an answer; maybe he'll prove himself not to be. But only by playing him can we and the Sox learn anything.

balke
07-20-2007, 09:22 AM
He got a horrible jump on a ball last night, and his speed couldn't make up for it. He was lucky that didn't spark the Red Sox comeback. I like what I'm seeing out of him though, but can't make any real judgements til he's played more.

lostfan
07-20-2007, 09:24 AM
Well, of course as a CF he couldn't hold a candle to any of Erstad, Anderson, or Rowand.

Jaffar
07-20-2007, 09:24 AM
When Pods and Erstad return they will both start and Owens will become a 4th outfielder. I'm not sure when he got recalled but in July he's batting .309 with an .367 obp in 15 games. In june he was .170/.214 with roughly the same amount of at bats. I want to see more.

lostfan
07-20-2007, 09:27 AM
Yeah it really sucks that Pods and Erstad will both be starting over him. Why? What's the point? Erstad's supposed to be the 4th OF anyway...