PDA

View Full Version : Start panicking now!


NUKE_CLEVELAND
04-04-2002, 12:23 AM
2 days in a row, damn. What the Foulke is happening here?!?!?

Mathew
04-04-2002, 12:26 AM
Ahhhhhhhh!!! I'm covered in spiders ahhhhhhhhhhhh!!

doublem23
04-04-2002, 12:28 AM
Not just yet.

A) We've played 3 games... that's not even 2% of the season.

B) The Mariners are a GOOD team. Blowing leads always sucks, but it's not like this was the freakin Devil Rays.

No use crying over spilled milk. On to Kansas City!

captain54
04-04-2002, 01:40 AM
the main reason the pitching kicked ass in 2000 was Baldwin and Eldred pitched
lights out in the first half....it was mediocre in the second half.....including Foulke.

We're still being lulled in to thinking this is a great team when in essence, we have had
one half of year of great baseball....(first half of 2000) in about 10 years......

RedPinStripes
04-04-2002, 02:06 AM
Originally posted by doublem23
Not just yet.

A) We've played 3 games... that's not even 2% of the season.

B) The Mariners are a GOOD team. Blowing leads always sucks, but it's not like this was the freakin Devil Rays.

No use crying over spilled milk. On to Kansas City!

You got the right idea dude! I got real pissed off temporarily tonight, but there's 159 games left and then the playoffs. Yup. That's right JM , I said playoffs. :)

DVG
04-04-2002, 02:36 AM
Double is right. Seattle is a GOOD team. But if they do this
every time they play a GOOD team, then I don't see much hope
as far as reaching the playoffs is concerned. Face it, this is not
a GOOD team. GOOD hitting, perhaps, and the starters might
turn out to be GOOD, but the bullpen very definitely is BAD.moron


Sammy hit his first ding-ding!!!!! He's only three behind Barry!!!
Gush! Gush!:moron

Jerry_Manuel
04-04-2002, 07:04 AM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
You got the right idea dude! I got real pissed off temporarily tonight, but there's 159 games left and then the playoffs. Yup. That's right JM , I said playoffs. :)

Are you going to be watching the playoffs from home with some of the Sox players? Face it, they'll be on the golf course come playoff time.

RedPinStripes
04-04-2002, 07:08 AM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


Are you going to be watching the playoffs from home with some of the Sox players? Face it, they'll be on the golf course come playoff time.

Go watch some ball in the baggie dome. And remeber.......No more Tom Kelly Half the team is gone right there.

Wanna come over and watch the Sox in the playoffs? You'll have to apologise for being a troll. Might only be the first round again, but they will make you sorry for rooting for the twinkies.

Jerry_Manuel
04-04-2002, 07:13 AM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
Go watch some ball in the baggie dome. And remeber.......No more Tom Kelly Half the team is gone right there.

Wanna come over and watch the Sox in the playoffs? You'll have to apologise for being a troll. Might only be the first round again, but they will make you sorry for rooting for the twinkies.

I'd rather watch one of Daver's hunting shows, then watch a game in the baggie dome.

If the Sox make the playoffs, I'll do something. I'm not sure what. but I'll do something.

doublem23
04-04-2002, 07:16 AM
Originally posted by DVG
Double is right. Seattle is a GOOD team. But if they do this
every time they play a GOOD team, then I don't see much hope
as far as reaching the playoffs is concerned. Face it, this is not
a GOOD team. GOOD hitting, perhaps, and the starters might
turn out to be GOOD, but the bullpen very definitely is BAD.

Well, while you certainly have every right to say that considering the last few nights, I still say it's only 3 games of a 162 marathon. Changes probably will need to be made, but if the Sox could find five more competent pitcher in the bullpen, I think this team can definitely be considered a serious World Series contender.

I mean, we SHOULD have swept Seattle, and that ain't not bad.

RedPinStripes
04-04-2002, 07:19 AM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


I'd rather watch one of Daver's hunting shows, then watch a game in the baggie dome.

If the Sox make the playoffs, I'll do something. I'm not sure what. but I'll do something.

There's a good sign. You haven't completly lost your mind. HA! You still think the baggie dome is the wost baseball facility on earth. :D:

hold2dibber
04-04-2002, 07:40 AM
Originally posted by DVG
Double is right. Seattle is a GOOD team. But if they do this
every time they play a GOOD team, then I don't see much hope
as far as reaching the playoffs is concerned. Face it, this is not
a GOOD team. GOOD hitting, perhaps, and the starters might
turn out to be GOOD, but the bullpen very definitely is BAD.moron


Sammy hit his first ding-ding!!!!! He's only three behind Barry!!!
Gush! Gush!:moron

It is WAY too early to say that "the bullpen very definitely is BAD." It is true that so far, the bullpen has very definitely been very, very bad. That said, Keith Foulke is not going to give up 4 ER in 2/3 IP very often. He is going to slam that door shut 95% of the time. And Osuna has looked great. There are still a lot of question marks, but Biddle, Parque and Wunsch are all virtual locks for the major league roster within the next month, which will significantly change the make up of the bullpen and the complexion of the pitching staff as a whole. It is way too early to jump to such any conclusions.

doublem23
04-04-2002, 07:55 AM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes


You got the right idea dude! I got real pissed off temporarily tonight, but there's 159 games left and then the playoffs. Yup. That's right JM , I said playoffs. :)

Yeah, I'm not going to lie and say that this doesn't completely suck (because it DOES), but 2 games are a drop in the ocean. The Sox have a long way to go, and this isn't the first time in the history of the game that a bullpen has had 2 bad games in a row.

So please, loosen the noose around your neck... unless your name is Nardi Contreras.

Go Sox!

160-2 still possible! :smile:

foulkesfan11
04-04-2002, 08:33 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DVG
[B]Double is right. Seattle is a GOOD team. But if they do this
every time they play a GOOD team, then I don't see much hope
as far as reaching the playoffs is concerned. Face it, this is not
a GOOD team. GOOD hitting, perhaps, and the starters might
turn out to be GOOD, but the bullpen very definitely is BAD.moron


I don't think Seattle is that good. They're just managed better, however we can not blame yesterdaay'd mishap on Manuel. As much as I love Foulke, he needs to take the blame for this one. He's scaring me lately.

Procol Harum
04-04-2002, 08:36 AM
Originally posted by doublem23

but if the Sox could find five more competent pitcher in the bullpen, I think this team can definitely be considered a serious World Series contender.


:?: Was this a typo Doub?? "Five" more competent pitchers in the bullpen? If not, somehow you're not making me 'zactly bristle with confidence . . . finding five more competent pitchers for the Sox bullpen at this point with KW large and in charge will be kinda like finding those twenty other lifeboats the Titanic should've had on board....jeez, one or two would be a God-send.

harwar
04-04-2002, 08:41 AM
What really bothers me is that I knew that Foulke was having a major problem finding his release point and either JR didn't know or he sent him in anyway.Theres no way Osuna needs to be pitching 3 innings right now(or ever),except in an emergency but I JUST KNEW that Keith wouldn't get anyone out.This is really starting to remind me of last year.At least were going to K.C. & Detroit,we should at least be able to beat those guys.

Clarkdog
04-04-2002, 09:26 AM
Not yet. Here's what I saw that gives me hope.

The offense looks great. With Lofton at the top, he makes things happen and is a catalyst for the lineup. That plus the fact that the Sox are working the count, and not free swinging as much as I noticed last year. Finally, the Sox are executing with situational hitting when they need it. They never did that last year. Case in point: Tuesday night - Lofton's bunt that resulted in a three base error. Ray comes up, grounds to the right side of the infield, scoring Lofton. Watching that at bat, Durham was trying to hit it there because he was trying to get the run in. Last year, he swinging for the fences looking for a big inning. This team will score a lot of runs when things are clicking.

Defense: Outside of the Konerko error on Monday, Not bad. Lee is improved in left. Lofton is solid, and Maggs can hold his own. Valentine didn't make any bad plays but he still needs to get used to playing third everyday. Clayton is solid. Ray still can't go to his right. In the ninth last night, the ball hit that Ray dove for to his right, I feel like he could have had it . It was not out of his reach. I've seen Alomar make that play many times. Last, the pitchers are fielding thier position better than I've seen in a while. Slick DP started by Osuna last night. Big time play by Wright robbing Guillen of a hit and getting the FC.

Pitching: This was the knock in Spring. But Beurhle, Ritchie, and Wright held Seattle, the AL's best team in 2001, to 12 hits in 18 innings ptiched. Not bad. If we can get that all year from them and Garland. Then whatever Rauch or Parque can do is gravy. The bullpen is what will make or break us. Osuna has been the only bright spot. And I'm worried about Foulke's ability to close important games. This is picking up from 2001. He may be a choker. No way you win any type of playoff with a guy that can't close big games. He has to deliver inthose situations. He getting paid a lot of money. I think Frank was right in calling him out a little in the media last night. Nothing bad, just - You gotta close those kinds of game out. Those are the ones we need to win.

Iwritecode
04-04-2002, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by harwar
What really bothers me is that I knew that Foulke was having a major problem finding his release point and either JR didn't know or he sent him in anyway.Theres no way Osuna needs to be pitching 3 innings right now(or ever),except in an emergency but I JUST KNEW that Keith wouldn't get anyone out.This is really starting to remind me of last year.At least were going to K.C. & Detroit,we should at least be able to beat those guys.

I don't know if it was his release point or what but Keith could not get his changeup over for a strike last night. That's exactly when he struggles is when he can't throw is best pitch for a strike. They just sit on his fastball and drive it where the fielders aren't. That's what happened last night.

CLR01
04-04-2002, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by doublem23


Yeah, I'm not going to lie and say that this doesn't completely suck (because it DOES), but 2 games are a drop in the ocean. The Sox have a long way to go, and this isn't the first time in the history of the game that a bullpen has had 2 bad games in a row.

So please, loosen the noose around your neck... unless your name is Nardi Contreras.

Go Sox!

160-2 still possible! :smile:

3 bad games, they tried real hard to blow the opener. IMO, the season is not 162 games long, as of right now it is 2 months long, and depending on how they play it gets extended. I would rather see the sox playing for at the very least the wild card, and not playing to finish .500. They canít afford another start like they had last year. Hate to be a pessimist but they are starting the same way. Won the opener, lost the next 2. Hopefully they bounce back and sweep KC.

voodoochile
04-04-2002, 11:47 AM
What is it with Sox fans? Are we so used to getting kicked in the teeth that a couple of bad games and everyone is ready to jump off the top of the upper deck? This is why I can't post on these boards after tough losses like last night. People freak out too much...

Iwritecode
04-04-2002, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by CLR01
3 bad games, they tried real hard to blow the opener. IMO, the season is not 162 games long, as of right now it is 2 months long, and depending on how they play it gets extended. I would rather see the sox playing for at the very least the wild card, and not playing to finish .500. They canít afford another start like they had last year. Hate to be a pessimist but they are starting the same way. Won the opener, lost the next 2. Hopefully they bounce back and sweep KC.

Ask the A's or Twins or Cubs how long the season is. The A's started almost as bad as we did last year. Still came back and got the WC. Twins and Cubs started as the leagues 2 hottest teams. We all know what happened after that... With the April schedule the Sox have they should be able to right this ship in no time. Plus, they don't have to face the Twins at all until the AS break. The Twins and Tribe's schedules get a little tougher then also.

ode to veeck
04-04-2002, 12:52 PM
" Double is right. Seattle is a GOOD team. But if they do this
every time they play a GOOD team, then I don't see much hope
as far as reaching the playoffs is concerned. Face it, this is not
a GOOD team. GOOD hitting, perhaps, and the starters might
turn out to be GOOD, but the bullpen very definitely is BAD "

The season is still just getting started, but two key metrics for the Sox to be real contender came out the wrong way in Seattle.

(1) got to win more series against the better teams, we were close, but dropped the ball here--even during resurgence last year, Sox still came up short when we played better team (beat the flubs then lose to twinks, mariners, etc)--if we're a contender we have to be able to win series against better MLB teams-

(2) got to have better support from the bullpen ... or we'll see the As (& other) doing to us what they did to Texas last night (and they did to us last year)-no matter how many runs we score, we have to have an effective bullpen--so far we're about a D- there; this is where KW and JM are really needed to do their jobs--time for Howry to s__ or get off the pot, and maybe JM can find some of the post-surgery arms to slowly improve to finda couple more effective middle relievers (we need at least of couple more to go with Osuma)

Season nor Sox's prognosis is way too early to call, but there's certainly clear data on where to focus some adjustments: the bullpen, as much as we all think Buddy should be given the bench in favor of getting getting Crede at 3B, the stark reality is the bullpen's been mediocre at best since mid '00 and actually pretty crappy throughout much of '01 and all of '02 spring to date

On the flip side, I really like JM taking the ball out of his younger pitchers' hands after 100 pitches (which he didn't do last year); but he and KW have to come up with a fix it plan for the bullpen or we're not going to get very far against the better teams.

moochpuppy
04-04-2002, 12:57 PM
Help me remember that when I'm having a bad day after a Sox loss and it seems that the White Sox pessimists (which seem to be numerous on these forums) are trying to p i s s me off, that it takes 42 muscles to frown and only 4 to extend my middle finger and tell them to bite me.

I BELIEVE!!

GO SOX!!