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View Full Version : *OFFICIAL* 2nd Half Tear? Great Game 7/12/2007 Postgame Thread


MCHSoxFan
07-12-2007, 10:09 PM
Man has it been a looong time since I have posted a "Postgame Thread!"

What a nice start to the 2nd half of the 2007 season. I hope this type of playing continues for at LEAST 85% of this half. EXCPET FOR THIS BAAAD BULLPEN!

Okay, let's see. OFFENSE, PITCHING, DEFENSE!!!!YEEEESSS!!!! BULLPEN? NOOOOO!!!! But hey, it's a WIN. I am so desperate for them, I do NOT care how we win or how much we win by as long as their is a "W" in the books. However, it is really sad and makes me really mad that in the bottom of the 9th inning we are winning 9 to 2 and it comes all the way to 9 to 7. THIS SUCKS!!! Glad to see Mark will be pitching again WITHOUT contract talks tomorrow.

Now, let's TEAR IT UP!!!! :D:

chisoxwschamps05
07-12-2007, 10:11 PM
Outside of Bobby, our bullpen is one collective worthless piece of crap

oeo
07-12-2007, 10:11 PM
Well, I guess if you're looking for a positive from the bullpen (besides Bobby and Thornton)...they were throwing strikes. Too bad they were right down the heart...

Malgar 12
07-12-2007, 10:11 PM
Outside of Bobby, our bullpen is one collective worthless piece of crap

yup

WoogSox
07-12-2007, 10:11 PM
Honostly, is there anything that can be done about this pen. Even if they were just trying to get work in for Day and Logan, it is not a good sign at all to give up 5 in any inning let alone the ninth. Any suggestions that can keep my sanity throughout the rest of the season?

hi im skot
07-12-2007, 10:11 PM
I don't think I would call that 9th inning "great'.

I'll take the win, though.

CLR01
07-12-2007, 10:11 PM
I wonder how many of Bobby's saves have been collected in games in which the Sox have lead by at least 5 runs when the bullpen entered the game?

chisoxmike
07-12-2007, 10:12 PM
To anybody that thinks we are going on a second half tear, it will never happen becuase of our bullpen.

Patrick134
07-12-2007, 10:12 PM
Way for our offense to come out swinging. So the O's got some garbage time runs, no biggie. Go Sox !

Palehose Pete
07-12-2007, 10:12 PM
Ugly, ugly, ugly.

But it's a win and I'm happy. Clearly KW needs to address the BP after this cluster**** of an ending to an otherwise wonderful game.

MarySwiss
07-12-2007, 10:12 PM
We won. Whoopee-doo.

Sorry, but that was beyond pathetic.

Frater Perdurabo
07-12-2007, 10:12 PM
A win is a win and I will take it. :smile:

This is among the worst bullpens I have ever seen. Does anyone have any stats to see where this pen compares to the worst pens of all time?

Flight #24
07-12-2007, 10:13 PM
Only somewhat saving grace of the BP meltdown is that I think Logan looked decent outside of 1 pitch. Of course, the Day meltdown and that bad pitch made it ridiculously close.:angry:

Still a win and more importantly, Dye looked great, upping his value!:bandance:

Patrick134
07-12-2007, 10:13 PM
We won. Whoopee-doo.

Sorry, but that was beyond pathetic.


So the O's scored some runs in garbage time , who cares ? If the sox scored 5 in the 9th and still lost, no one around this board would be celebrating. A win is a win is a win is a win.

The Racehorse
07-12-2007, 10:13 PM
The offense came out guns a blazin' :cool:

Unfortunately, the bull pen came out gas cans a blazin' :mad:

But we won anyway! :D:

oeo
07-12-2007, 10:13 PM
Ugly, ugly, ugly.

But it's a win and I'm happy. Clearly KW needs to address the BP after this cluster**** of ending to an otherwise wonderful game.

Bull**** it was ugly. They played a great game...Dewon Day and Boone Logan were the only two that didn't show up. Again, they were up by 7 runs...they were supposed to throw strikes; the Orioles were ready and crushed every one of them. At least it wasn't a walk-fest like usual.

chisoxmike
07-12-2007, 10:15 PM
Bull**** it was ugly. They played a great game...Dewon Day and Boone Logan were the only two that didn't show up. Again, they were up by 7 runs...they were supposed to throw strikes; the Orioles were ready and crushed every one of them. At least it wasn't a walk-fest like usual.

Agreed. The Sox have this amazing ability to make wins seem like losses.

CanBuehrleWait
07-12-2007, 10:15 PM
A win is a win and I will take it. :smile:

This is among the worst bullpens I have ever seen. Does anyone have any stats to see where this pen compares to the worst pens of all time?

Yes absolutley. We are witnessing history!!!:whiner::whiner: Hack and slash this pen up right now.

whitesoxfan
07-12-2007, 10:15 PM
Boy that was an embarassment. Even when we win, it's embarassing. How sad is that?

oeo
07-12-2007, 10:15 PM
So the O's scored some runs in garbage time , who cares ? If the sox scored 5 in the 9th and still lost, no one around this board would be celebrating. A win is a win is a win is a win.

I'm guessing they only watched the 9th inning. :dunno:

It wasn't an ugly game at all. They played the best baseball I've seen from them in a long time. Dewon Day and Boone Logan's ****fest shouldn't cloud over that.

kobo
07-12-2007, 10:16 PM
Way for our offense to come out swinging. So the O's got some garbage time runs, no biggie. Go Sox !
It is a big deal that your bullpen surrenders 5 runs in the 9th inning and then the manager has to turn to the closer to end the game. Sure, those are technically garbage runs, but they shouldn't happen. Especially after having 3 days off.

CLR01
07-12-2007, 10:16 PM
1 down 53 to go. Right where we want to be.

Patrick134
07-12-2007, 10:17 PM
It is a big deal that your bullpen surrenders 5 runs in the 9th inning and then the manager has to turn to the closer to end the game. Sure, those are technically garbage runs, but they shouldn't happen. Especially after having 3 days off.

At least there were no walks/errors in the inning. You're supposed to throw strikes in that situation. Give the orioles the credit for hitting the ball where the sox weren't.

Palehose Pete
07-12-2007, 10:17 PM
Bull**** it was ugly. They played a great game...Dewon Day and Boone Logan were the only two that didn't show up. Again, they were up by 7 runs...they were supposed to throw strikes; the Orioles were ready and crushed every one of them. At least it wasn't a walk-fest like usual.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, oeo. Slow your roll. I said that the game was otherwise wonderful. The "otherwise" part was the ugly BP. C'mon. We're on the same page here, unless I totally misunderstood your post.

hi im skot
07-12-2007, 10:17 PM
So the O's scored some runs in garbage time , who cares ? If the sox scored 5 in the 9th and still lost, no one around this board would be celebrating. A win is a win is a win is a win.

Except you.

"Oh, man...the offense is really starting to pick it up!"

Frater Perdurabo
07-12-2007, 10:17 PM
I cannot imagine a bullpen that is as despicably and atrocioulsy bad as this one.

In fact, I can't think of any way this pen could get worse, other than if Jenks or Thornton got hurt.

oeo
07-12-2007, 10:18 PM
It is a big deal that your bullpen surrenders 5 runs in the 9th inning and then the manager has to turn to the closer to end the game. Sure, those are technically garbage runs, but they shouldn't happen. Especially after having 3 days off.

Oh well, it did happen. And with a big lead like that, it's not uncommon for a team to score runs in the 9th. The bullpen's job in a game like that is to just throw strikes. Unfortunately the Orioles hit everything out of reach, but we had runs to spare...so oh well.

FielderJones
07-12-2007, 10:20 PM
There has to be someone in the system better than Day. Send him down to Kannapolis where he belongs and bring up a real pitcher.

Jerome
07-12-2007, 10:20 PM
To anybody that thinks we are going on a second half tear, it will never happen becuase of our bullpen.

I don't think anybody's thinking that, but you are correct

SoxandtheCityTee
07-12-2007, 10:21 PM
I wonder how many of Bobby's saves have been collected in games in which the Sox have lead by at least 5 runs when the bullpen entered the game?

He's got to lead the world in that one.

CanBuehrleWait
07-12-2007, 10:21 PM
I cannot imagine a bullpen that is as despicably and atrocioulsy bad as this one.

In fact, I can't think of any way this pen could get worse, other than if Jenks or Thornton got hurt.


:o:

Frater Perdurabo
07-12-2007, 10:22 PM
OK, to avoid charges of being a dark cloud, I'll compliment the offense and the starting pitching tonight. I'll also say that our All-Star closer did his job very well. These are promising signs.

KW, can you please find some talented veteran relievers who have enough control to throw pitches that are srikes but where it is difficult for hitters to hit them?

champagne030
07-12-2007, 10:22 PM
In fact, I can't think of any way this pen could get worse, other than if Jenks or Thornton got hurt.

:cower::mg::cower::mg:

MLB would need to invoke the slaughter rule for some of our games if that happened.

Patrick134
07-12-2007, 10:22 PM
I don't think anybody's thinking that, but you are correct


While that may or may not be true tonight wasn't an example of that. Our bullpen problems have usually been characterized by walks, combined with errors. The sox threw strikes, give the O's credit for hitting them in gaps.

oeo
07-12-2007, 10:24 PM
KW, can you please find some talented veteran relievers who have enough control to throw pitches that are srikes but where it is difficult for hitters to hit them?

For as many people that have thrown in the towel for the season (myself included; I'm not saying we have a chance)...how do you want Kenny to get good bullpen arms? There are contenders that have bad bullpens, and they likely won't be able to find help. Where do you want Kenny to pull these magical relievers from, his ass?

MarySwiss
07-12-2007, 10:25 PM
So the O's scored some runs in garbage time , who cares ? If the sox scored 5 in the 9th and still lost, no one around this board would be celebrating. A win is a win is a win is a win.

Excuse me? Garbage time? IIRC, we entered the bottom of the 9th with a 9-2 lead, and we escaped by the hair on our chinny-chin-chin.

I'm a pollyanna, by no means calling this season a done-deal, but this ninth inning was not remotely "garbage time." Unless you're referring to our bullpen.

JB98
07-12-2007, 10:26 PM
Great game for eight innings.

Unfortunately, we still have only two big-league pitchers in our bullpen.

Really glad to see Garland bounce back from that disaster against Minnesota.

CanBuehrleWait
07-12-2007, 10:26 PM
For as many people that have thrown in the towel for the season (myself included; I'm not saying we have a chance)...how do you want Kenny to get good bullpen arms? There are contenders that have bad bullpens, and they likely won't be able to find help. Where do you want Kenny to pull these magical relievers from, his ass?

Indeed. This pen is barbaric though. At the minimum they need to start trying every arm they have in the minors and hope somebody magically doesn't suck. From AAA to single A can they be any worse then this crapfest we have right now?

champagne030
07-12-2007, 10:27 PM
For as many people that have thrown in the towel for the season (myself included; I'm not saying we have a chance)...how do you want Kenny to get good bullpen arms? There are contenders that have bad bullpens, and they likely won't be able to find help. Where do you want Kenny to pull these magical relievers from, his ass?

That's the problem. I just want Kenny to stop picking relievers out of the toilet and thinking he can get Coop to polish them into something.

kobo
07-12-2007, 10:27 PM
Oh well, it did happen. And with a big lead like that, it's not uncommon for a team to score runs in the 9th. The bullpen's job in a game like that is to just throw strikes. Unfortunately the Orioles hit everything out of reach, but we had runs to spare...so oh well.
Throw strikes and hold on to the lead, not **** the bed and have your clsoer come in and end it. The bullpen has had trouble for the majority of the season, and for guys like Logan and Day to come in and **** thier pants in the 9th after having at least 3 days off is unacceptable.

Patrick134
07-12-2007, 10:27 PM
Excuse me? Garbage time? IIRC, we entered the bottom of the 9th with a 9-2 lead, and we escaped by the hair on our chinny-chin-chin.

I'm a pollyanna, by no means calling this season a done-deal, but this ninth inning was not remotely "garbage time." Unless you're referring to our bullpen.


Wins go in the "W' column, losses in the "L" column. They don't get rated for how pretty they are. This was a win, Buerlhe's 2 hitter in Toronto, a loss.

JB98
07-12-2007, 10:28 PM
While that may or may not be true tonight wasn't an example of that. Our bullpen problems have usually been characterized by walks, combined with errors. The sox threw strikes, give the O's credit for hitting them in gaps.

Day threw the ball right down the middle to Patterson on 0-2 though. He might have thrown strikes, but none were quality strikes.

Frater Perdurabo
07-12-2007, 10:30 PM
I know this sounds "pollyana-ish," but with the addition of two decent relievers, this team would have a fighting chance to make a respectable run.

I'm not saying they would make the playoffs. But they would at least have a small chance to take advantage of a slump by the Tigers, Indians and Twins.

RowanDye
07-12-2007, 10:30 PM
Way for our offense to come out swinging. So the O's got some garbage time runs, no biggie. Go Sox !

Might as well get all of our scoring out of the way early in the second half!

Nice way to bounce back, start the second half for Garland though.

champagne030
07-12-2007, 10:31 PM
Wins go in the "W' column, losses in the "L" column. They don't get rated for how pretty they are. This was a win, Buerlhe's 2 hitter in Toronto, a loss.

http://www.filminamerica.com/Movies/Pollyanna/pollyanna-poster3.jpg

chisoxmike
07-12-2007, 10:32 PM
That's the problem. I just want Kenny to stop picking relievers out of the toilet and thinking he can get Coop to polish them into something.

Thank you, sir. I got so annoyed after every bullpen signing/trade everybody going "Ooooh, touch me, Cooper will work his magic."

Andrew Sisco, David Aardsma were ****. And the guys coming up from the minors have looked scared and over matched throwing to big league hitters.

chisoxmike
07-12-2007, 10:33 PM
I know this sounds "pollyana-ish," but with the addition of two decent relievers, this team would have a fighting chance to make a respectable run.



But where do they come from? There isn't much to chose from.

Tragg
07-12-2007, 10:33 PM
If middle relievers were good, they wouldn't be middle relievers. There are a scant few good ones - the ones that are good become closers or move into the rotation.
Don't waste resources on acquiring career middle relievers - they are untrustworthy by defnition.
Just try different young pitcher. Somebody will step up. In the meantime, why not Floyd? (he has nothing else to prove in AAA). Or Gio?

oeo
07-12-2007, 10:34 PM
Throw strikes and hold on to the lead, not **** the bed and have your clsoer come in and end it.

Well, you throw strikes and hope what they hit hard doesn't become a problem.

The bullpen has had trouble for the majority of the season, and for guys like Logan and Day to come in and **** thier pants in the 9th after having at least 3 days off is unacceptable.They have had trouble, but if you've watched them at all this season, a game like today was not their problem. Usually you'll see walks, walks, walks...today it was first pitch nailed for a base hit. Today was nothing like the rest of the year.

Get over it, they won.

I can almost guarantee if they were up by only a few runs, that inning would have went differently. The Orioles had nothing to lose and were just going to swing at whatever came their way. It worked out tonight for them...but if they were only down by a few runs, they wouldn't have that same approach at the plate.

CanBuehrleWait
07-12-2007, 10:40 PM
http://www.filminamerica.com/Movies/Pollyanna/pollyanna-poster3.jpg

Wow.. off topic but that picture is terrifying :o::o:

NSSoxFan
07-12-2007, 10:45 PM
http://www.filminamerica.com/Movies/Pollyanna/pollyanna-poster3.jpg

What did Patrick134 say that wasn't true? You call in being a Polyanna, I call it thinking positively. 100% of the time thinking positively is a means to a positive end.

Patrick134
07-12-2007, 10:45 PM
What did Patrick134 say that wasn't true? You call in being a Polyanna, I call it thinking positively. 100% of the time thinking positively is a means to a positive end.


Thank you for your support.

Frater Perdurabo
07-12-2007, 10:47 PM
There are contenders that have bad bullpens, and they likely won't be able to find help. Where do you want Kenny to pull these magical relievers from, his ass?

In 2003, KW got Scott Schoeneweis (July 30) and Scott Sullivan (August 21) through trades. Sullivan actually made it through the waiver process and posted a respectable 3.77 ERA with the Sox. Both Scotts pitched well enough to fortify that bullpen and helped the Sox finish strong, in second place, just 4 games back.

Back on June 2 I suggested Akinori Otsuka (Rangers), Brian Fuentes (Rockies) and Chad Cordero (Nationals). All would be available for the right price and could solidify a bullpen for this year and for next year.

It's not like the Sox are looking to add a starter or a closer, who would be much more expensive. We're talking about middle relievers, for crimeny sakes!

infohawk
07-12-2007, 10:48 PM
I'm not one who believes that the Sox can make a run and make the playoffs, but if KW does, at the very minimum he needs to get a couple more reliable arms in that bullpen. If he talks about the Sox making a surge and being "buyers," but does nothing about that 'pen, I'll just kind of scratch my head.

rowand33
07-12-2007, 10:49 PM
If middle relievers were good, they wouldn't be middle relievers. There are a scant few good ones - the ones that are good become closers or move into the rotation.
Don't waste resources on acquiring career middle relievers - they are untrustworthy by defnition.
Just try different young pitcher. Somebody will step up. In the meantime, why not Floyd? (he has nothing else to prove in AAA). Or Gio?

I agree that Floyd should be in the pen. I don't think much of the guy, but he'd probably be more valuable to us than players like Day and Bukvich.

oeo
07-12-2007, 10:51 PM
In 2003, KW got Scott Schoeneweis (July 30) and Scott Sullivan (August 21) through trades. Sullivan actually made it through the waiver process and posted a respectable 3.77 ERA with the Sox. Both Scotts pitched well enough to fortify that bullpen and helped the Sox finish strong, in second place, just 4 games back.

Back on June 2 I suggested Akinori Otsuka (Rangers), Brian Fuentes (Rockies) and Chad Cordero (Nationals). All would be available for the right price and could solidify a bullpen for this year and for next year.

It's not like the Sox are looking to add a starter or a closer, who would be much more expensive. We're talking about middle relievers, for crimeny sakes!

And bring up some names they could acquire, while also filling the other 10 holes we have on the team. All those names sound great, but then where do we get the resources to fill our other (IMO, more important) holes. Kenny tried it last year and it didn't work. It's hard to build a bullpen, period...let alone do it in the middle of a season.

Personally, I don't think Kenny should waste his resources on the bullpen right now. We have holes at other positions...fill the bullpen in over the offseason. Right now we're going to need an entire new outfield and quite possibly a middle infield; that should be his target.

chisoxfanatic
07-12-2007, 10:51 PM
There's absolutely NO reason to be up 9-2 going to the bottom of the 9th and have the tying run come to the plate. Will the bullpen FINALLY pull their heads out of their asses?

Hats off to Garland and the offense though. It was great to get a solid lead and actually ADD to it for once!

Vernam
07-12-2007, 10:51 PM
Really glad to see Garland bounce back from that disaster against Minnesota.That's big. Gar has become a great groundball pitcher, with the knack for getting key double plays. His mental toughness is pretty impressive compared to, say, 2003.

The bullpen is what it is. I hate that saying, but they're so ****ty, I can't be bothered to think of anything but the lamest cliche. :wink:

Loved hearing Hawk try to boost Jermaine's trade value all night, in case any scouts or GMs were tuned in. "Feisty, these are the best four at bats JD has put together in a long while . . ." :rolleyes:

Seriously, though, it's good to see the bats finally come around.

Vernam

oeo
07-12-2007, 10:54 PM
Loved hearing Hawk try to boost Jermaine's trade value all night, in case any scouts or GMs were tuned in. "Feisty, these are the best four at bats JD has put together in a long while . . ." :rolleyes:

I'm sure that's exactly what he was doing. How about Dye has looked awful and today was the best he has looked in a long time?

Chicken Dinner
07-12-2007, 10:56 PM
The pen absolutely sucks. Masset, Day, Logan, now Haegar. Numbers don't lie. I sure am glad Kenny is right on top of this. We could have lost with a 7 run lead. ***! :angry:

ShoelessJoeS
07-12-2007, 10:59 PM
Only our bullpen would make a 9-2 game close.....Jesus

Frater Perdurabo
07-12-2007, 10:59 PM
But where do they come from? There isn't much to chose from.

Look at non-contending teams who have decent closers or set-up guys. Think Rockies (44-44), Nationals (38-48), Rangers (38-50), Devil Rays (34-54), Giants, Orioles (38-50), Reds (36-53), even the Astros (39-50), Pirates (40-48) or Marlins (42-47). Most of these teams could be interested in a package of pitching prospects, which the Sox have in abundance.

A lot people understandably would put the Sox in the same category as these teams. The difference is that the Sox have an offense with so much talent that seems to be on the rise (plus Erstad and Pods due to come back at some point; they can't both get hurt a THIRD time this year, can they?), and have such a great starting rotation, and have an All-Star closer.

We're talking about bullpen help, not a starting pitcher or a feared slugger!

Hitmen77
07-12-2007, 11:00 PM
Only somewhat saving grace of the BP meltdown is that I think Logan looked decent outside of 1 pitch. Of course, the Day meltdown and that bad pitch made it ridiculously close.:angry:

Still a win and more importantly, Dye looked great, upping his value!:bandance:

Day was definitely the bigger problem. Logan actually got his first two guys out. If we had started with him, a HR and a single wouldn't have looked so embarrassing. Not to totally let Boone off the hook for tonight, but Day has got to go. It's a real sad statement on the Sox system that we supposedly have absolutely NOBODY in the minors that can do better than Dewon Day.

churlish
07-12-2007, 11:00 PM
I agree that Floyd should be in the pen. I don't think much of the guy, but he'd probably be more valuable to us than players like Day and Bukvich.

If the rumors about trading Contreras are true, I'm sure they'll give Floyd a chance to take his spot and see if he can be an option for the #5 spot in 2008.

voodoochile
07-12-2007, 11:11 PM
So was Farmer happy when the O's jacked out the 3-run blast in the 9th? Afterall, nothing kills a rally quicker, right Ed?

Shouldn't have been that close, but what the heck...

:winner

thomas35forever
07-12-2007, 11:15 PM
Offense and Garland = :D:

Bullpen save Jenks = :angry:

Bill Naharodny
07-12-2007, 11:19 PM
Boy that was an embarassment. Even when we win, it's embarassing. How sad is that?

Power arms, baby!!!! Nice job, Kenny Williams!!!!

Chicken Dinner
07-12-2007, 11:21 PM
Power arms, baby!!!! Nice job, Kenny Williams!!!!

I hope his hands are warm from sitting on them.:(:

Johnny Mostil
07-12-2007, 11:27 PM
I wonder how many of Bobby's saves have been collected in games in which the Sox have lead by at least 5 runs when the bullpen entered the game?

I count four: 5/9 vs. Twins, 6/4 vs. Yanks, 6/10 vs. Astros, and tonight. I may be missing some.

chisoxmike
07-12-2007, 11:29 PM
I count four: 5/9 vs. Twins, 6/4 vs. Yanks, 6/10 vs. Astros, and tonight. I may be missing some.

Did he come in the Marlins game when we were up something like 10-4 and got out of a jam in the 9th?

EDIT: Yeah, 6/18 vs Marlins. A 10-4 game turned into a 10-6 win. Jenks with his 18th save.

Johnny Mostil
07-12-2007, 11:29 PM
1 down 53 to go. Right where we want to be.

Arrggghhh. Sox are 11-5 in their last 16 . . . keeping that pace up in their last 75 will only yield 52 more wins. Oh well . . .

rowand33
07-12-2007, 11:30 PM
The pen absolutely sucks. Masset, Day, Logan, now Haegar. Numbers don't lie. I sure am glad Kenny is right on top of this. We could have lost with a 7 run lead. ***! :angry:

What has Haegar done to be lumped in with that group? He hasn't pitched an inning for the white sox since last september. At least let him pitch before you condemn him.

Johnny Mostil
07-12-2007, 11:32 PM
Did he come in the Marlins game when we were up something like 10-4 and got out of a jam in the 9th?

You mean this (http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CHA/CHA200706180.shtml) game. I'm splitting hairs here . . . when the bullpen came into the game, the Sox lead had been trimmed to 9-5. (CLR had asked about 5-run leads . . .)

MUsoxfan
07-12-2007, 11:33 PM
Arrggghhh. Sox are 11-5 in their last 16 . . . keeping that pace up in their last 75 will only yield 52 more wins. Oh well . . .

I just want this team no more than 7 games out at the end. To me, that's an acceptable season in a year that the Tigers and Indians are really really good.

Johnny Mostil
07-12-2007, 11:34 PM
I just want this team no more than 7 games out at the end. To me, that's an acceptable season in a year that the Tigers and Indians are really really good.

I'm hoping for .500 before I dream of anything else . . .

HotelWhiteSox
07-12-2007, 11:34 PM
Spiderbite, now this, Dye seems to like it when he's coming back from something

champagne030
07-12-2007, 11:49 PM
What did Patrick134 say that wasn't true? You call in being a Polyanna, I call it thinking positively. 100% of the time thinking positively is a means to a positive end.

Or it could be called........

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/solekat205/the%20crescat/headinsand.jpg

TDog
07-13-2007, 12:04 AM
Only somewhat saving grace of the BP meltdown is that I think Logan looked decent outside of 1 pitch. Of course, the Day meltdown and that bad pitch made it ridiculously close.:angry:

Still a win and more importantly, Dye looked great, upping his value!:bandance:

If the only real problem was Day, who came in because the Sox had a seven-run lead, I fail to see what the problem was. Jenks got out of it with just one pitch, so he did little more than warm up.

WhiteSox5187
07-13-2007, 12:04 AM
The starting pitching is good, the offense is coming around, sadly the bullpen still sucks and that is why we aren't going to be competing. .500 is a possibility but I just can't envision this bullpen turning it around this season and we need everything to be clicking in order to have a prayer at the playoffs. That's not happening.

jabrch
07-13-2007, 12:14 AM
This site is totally depressing after a loss - and that's understandable.

But why the heck is this place a haven for depression even when we win?

Vernam
07-13-2007, 12:21 AM
This site is totally depressing after a loss - and that's understandable.

But why the heck is this place a haven for depression even when we win?Earlier today, I was thinking the Sox' record is so bad, there should be a moratorium on calling someone a Dark Cloud. I mean, it's hard not to be one. But then I saw the post-game thread and realized the term will never go out of style. :wink:

Vernam

DickAllen72
07-13-2007, 12:31 AM
Starting off the "second half" with a win is a step in the right direction. They actually played very well and looked better than at any other time this season except for that ninth inning.

I'll cut Logan some slack because he's basically been used as a Loogy and he did get two quick outs before surrendering that HR and then the single. He has been outstanding so far this year in his limited Loogy role, however.

Two other positives regarding the bullpen were Thornton and Jenks. Thornton looked as good as he has at any time this season.

The biggest negative was Day. When he came in to pitch the ninth, I thought "just throw strikes." He did that, but the O's were crushing them. Day's days in the majors may be numbered.

But a win is a win---let's win again tomorrow! :gulp:

Oh yeah--Great to see Jermaine with a big day at the plate!

ZombieRob
07-13-2007, 12:33 AM
This site is totally depressing after a loss - and that's understandable.

But why the heck is this place a haven for depression even when we win?
Not much hope even in a win,especially this one where seemingly this game was in hand,and in a blink the score 5 runs and even get the tying run at the plate.This is "maybe" the worst bullpen i have ever seen on a Sox team in the 30 years of watching them.

voodoochile
07-13-2007, 12:39 AM
This site is totally depressing after a loss - and that's understandable.

But why the heck is this place a haven for depression even when we win?

Because it's against the rules of fandom to have fun unless your team wins by at least 5 and is guaranteed a playoff berth at the end of the year...

jabrch
07-13-2007, 12:44 AM
Not much hope even in a win,especially this one

Bull****

We hit the ball well. Gar looked good. If that doesn't give you hope - I don't know.

We know the bullpen sucks - but this team hit well today and Gar looked pretty solid. That's definitely reason to have hope for the future.

This season is SHOT. It would take a miracle to get back into it - I don't expect that. But when we play well, and win a game, there shouldn't be this much *****ing.

ZombieRob
07-13-2007, 12:59 AM
Bull****

We hit the ball well. Gar looked good. If that doesn't give you hope - I don't know.

We know the bullpen sucks - but this team hit well today and Gar looked pretty solid. That's definitely reason to have hope for the future.

This season is SHOT. It would take a miracle to get back into it - I don't expect that. But when we play well, and win a game, there shouldn't be this much *****ing.
Sure were happy that it was a win.On the other hand who wants to settle for a just a win and barely at that? Sox fans want a winner not false hope.This team has a ton of holes and the future doesn't look all that bright.K.W has his work cut out for him.Basically he has to revamp and build up half this team again.

Nellie_Fox
07-13-2007, 01:03 AM
Where do you want Kenny to pull these magical relievers from, his ass?There are dozens of them hanging around the WalMart parking lot, looking for work. Just pull in and wave, and they'll hop in the back of your pickup truck.

Wow.. off topic but that picture is terrifying :o::o:Hey, that's Hayley Mills. I had a major thing for her when I was about ten.
Then:http://www.britmovie.co.uk/actors/m/images/017a.jpg
Now:http://www.cmpsouthwest.org/Artists%20Thumb%20Gallery%20copy/HayleyMills1.jpg

Still not bad in the opinion of an old guy.

oeo
07-13-2007, 01:12 AM
If the only real problem was Day, who came in because the Sox had a seven-run lead, I fail to see what the problem was. Jenks got out of it with just one pitch, so he did little more than warm up.

There wasn't a problem. The Orioles came in, obviously, looking to swing at whatever came their way. They were swinging first pitch, first pitch, first pitch. Even when Corey Patterson fouled off his first pitch, he chased a wild pitch. It was pretty evident that the O's were going to swing at whatever...and hey, it worked out pretty well. I'm not going to dwell on a win...the bottom line is, we finished the game when we had to.

I'd say the one big mistake, was the fastball to Millar that Boone threw. All those other ABs beforehand wouldn't happen in a close game because no one would take that approach.

Noneck
07-13-2007, 01:14 AM
This site is totally depressing after a loss - and that's understandable.

But why the heck is this place a haven for depression even when we win?

Blow outs are boring especially with a team that doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell of making the playoffs. Their bullpen is great, because of them every game I watch will be exciting till the end. Two types of games are best, Pitchers duals (we got some starters than can do that) and high scoring close games (our bullpen will be able to provide that). If the starters keep pitching well and the hitters go on a roll, the second half will be watchable.

jabrch
07-13-2007, 01:16 AM
Sure were happy that it was a win.On the other hand who wants to settle for a just a win and barely at that?

ME

Sox fans want a winner not false hope.

Well - we won. But that's not good enough? False hope? *** are you talking about? This team has no hope for 2007.

the future doesn't look all that bright.

My guess is that it never does for you unless the present also looks bright.

oeo
07-13-2007, 01:18 AM
My guess is that it never does for you unless the present also looks bright.

The name ZombieRob fits him well.

ZombieRob
07-13-2007, 01:26 AM
ME



Well - we won. But that's not good enough? False hope? *** are you talking about? This team has no hope for 2007.



My guess is that it never does for you unless the present also looks bright.
Maybe even beyond that.What do think K.W is going to do? spend $ ? Not.
Trade players? who has value on this team?
This franchise has alot of work cut out for themselves.
And the only hope for is this team can finish 500.

TDog
07-13-2007, 01:39 AM
Maybe even beyond that.What do think K.W is going to do? spend $ ? Not.
Trade players? who has value on this team?
This franchise has alot of work cut out for themselves.
And the only hope for is this team can finish 500.

That pretty much paraphrases what Jimmy Piersall said after the 1982 season.

ZombieRob
07-13-2007, 01:55 AM
That pretty much paraphrases what Jimmy Piersall said after the 1982 season.
I'm not saying i'm right or wrong.I try not to look to the future,but what choice do we have? This is a horrible team.I ddin't see this trainwreck comming.I thought this team was going to be there. And don't you think the 1982 White Sox were in alot better postion to win then this team has next year? This team has far more holes to fill.

Edit:To clarify i mean the 1982 team going into 1983 ,and what Piersall says you really have to take with a grain of salt don't you? wasn't he bitter about being let go?

TDog
07-13-2007, 02:29 AM
I'm not saying i'm right or wrong.I try not to look to the future,but what choice do we have? This is a horrible team.I ddin't see this trainwreck comming.I thought this team was going to be there. And don't you think the 1982 White Sox were in alot better postion to win then this team has next year? This team has far more holes to fill.

Edit:To clarify i mean the 1982 team going into 1983 ,and what Piersall says you really have to take with a grain of salt don't you? wasn't he bitter about being let go?

Piersall was so negative about the White Sox when he wasn't being let go it's hard to know if he let being let go affect his negativity. The statement I paraphrased was made on the last day of the season. I don't know if he knew what was going on at that point.

Being negative is easy. Sometimes it's so easy that teams do stupid things like hiring Ken Harrelson to be general manager. My point is that, although changes need to be made, I don't believe the White Sox are as bad as they have looked this season.

ZombieRob
07-13-2007, 02:38 AM
Piersall was so negative about the White Sox when he wasn't being let go it's hard to know if he let being let go affect his negativity. The statement I paraphrased was made on the last day of the season. I don't know if he knew what was going on at that point.

Being negative is easy. Sometimes it's so easy that teams do stupid things like hiring Ken Harrelson to be general manager. My point is that, although changes need to be made, I don't believe the White Sox are as bad as they have looked this season.
Even if what you say is right ,changes have to be made and the players need to be held accountable.What I'm trying to say is how can you when nobody really wants what he have to offer?K.W is in a bad spot as is Ozzie.I guess the most frustrating thing about this season is no one has any answers to why.As i said before i thought this team was going to contend ,even with a suspect outfield comming into this season.

MRM
07-13-2007, 02:55 AM
Any suggestions that can keep my sanity throughout the rest of the season?

Yep. Turn the game off after the 7th inning every day.

MRM
07-13-2007, 03:13 AM
Piersall was so negative about the White Sox when he wasn't being let go it's hard to know if he let being let go affect his negativity. The statement I paraphrased was made on the last day of the season. I don't know if he knew what was going on at that point.

Being negative is easy. Sometimes it's so easy that teams do stupid things like hiring Ken Harrelson to be general manager. My point is that, although changes need to be made, I don't believe the White Sox are as bad as they have looked this season.

Piersall wasn't "negative", he just called it like it was. Harry was allowed to leave because he refused to be a homer on-air (of course the Cubs money changed that stance later). Jimmy was the same way. Integrity meant something back then and it's what made those two the absolute best announcing team in Sox history.

Now...who replaced them? If you want a kiss-ass fan in the booth, Hawk is definately your man. I don't mind listening to him but his rhetoric is very Harryesque circa the Cubs years. But if you are looking for more than a fan with stories about the good old days, to announce your games, the Sox let the two best they ever had get away, then bad mouthed them at the end of the '83 season.

I Looooove Golf...but I couldn't care less what Hawk shot yesterday :D:

ZombieRob
07-13-2007, 03:16 AM
Piersall wasn't "negative", he just called it like it was. Harry was allowed to leave because he refused to be a homer on-air (of course the Cubs money changed that stance later). Jimmy was the same way. Integrity meant something back then and it's what made those two the absolute best announcing team in Sox history.

Now...who replaced them? If you want a kiss-ass fan in the booth, Hawk is definately your man. I don't mind listening to him but his rhetoric is very Harryesque circa the Cubs years. But if you are looking for more than a fan with stories about the good old days, to announce your games, the Sox let the two best they ever had get away, then bad mouthed them at the end of the '83 season.

I Looooove Golf...but I couldn't care less what Hawk shot yesterday :D:

Or which town has his money.

IJay22
07-13-2007, 03:59 AM
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_473560.jpg lance broadway: try me Ozzie!!!


:cool:

areilly
07-13-2007, 04:10 AM
If a seven-run lead against the Orioles going into the ninth isn't enough...what is? Can any of us honestly believe this team has a chance after that?

Sure the Sox won...but what, exactly, did they gain?

RadioheadRocks
07-13-2007, 04:16 AM
There are dozens of them hanging around the WalMart parking lot, looking for work. Just pull in and wave, and they'll hop in the back of your pickup truck.

Hey, that's Hayley Mills. I had a major thing for her when I was about ten.
Then:http://www.britmovie.co.uk/actors/m/images/017a.jpg
Now:http://www.cmpsouthwest.org/Artists%20Thumb%20Gallery%20copy/HayleyMills1.jpg

Still not bad in the opinion of an old guy.


I liked her in "The Trouble With Angels" with all of her scathingly brilliant ideas!!! :cool:

SBSoxFan
07-13-2007, 06:26 AM
I can almost guarantee if they were up by only a few runs, that inning would have went differently. The Orioles had nothing to lose and were just going to swing at whatever came their way. It worked out tonight for them...but if they were only down by a few runs, they wouldn't have that same approach at the plate.

I was thinking the same thing. I think they swung at every pitch Day threw. Now, some were bad pitches, especially the 0-2 to Patterson, but someone, i.e., AJ has to notice Baltimore's approach in that situation and call for some pitches way out of the strike zone. Even the first pitch Logan threw looked like a good one to hack at, but the batter decided to take.

On that note, I don't quite understand the Logan hate. Yes, he gave up a home run to a righty --- big surprise there. However, he also came within one pitch of getting out of the inning. Remember, he came in with runners on second and third with no outs, and Millar's HR came with runners on second and third and two outs.

Aside from the walk Thornton looked nasty.

southside rocks
07-13-2007, 08:23 AM
For the life of me, I will never understand the type of fan who seems to think that unless the Sox are going to the World Series, they aren't worth watching that year. How do people like that keep on being fans? Where's the fun? Maybe it's my age that affects my view, or maybe it's because I became a fan in the years when a WS championship for the Sox was even less likely than going to the moon -- literally.

Summer to me is about baseball, and baseball is going to be played and my greatest hope is that the Sox play good baseball. If they get outplayed by some other teams, so be it. I just want them to stop disgracing themselves as they did in the first half of this season so many times.

They're not a horrible team. If they were, fans wouldn't have been so angry at the first 3 months performance. They're a team with a LOT of holes (take a second, everyone, and realize again what it means to have Joe Crede, Pablo Ozuna, Darin Erstad, and Scott Podsednik all out of the lineup for months at a time!) and they're a team that's underperformed pretty badly so far. But they're not a horrible team.

The bullpen is the screaming fire alarm right now, and KW has got to put the fire out. IMO Dewon Day should return to the minors to work on a bunch of stuff. Boone Logan wasn't bad last night; one bad pitch for sure, but overall he's been above-average this year. Thornton looked like he might be back to his old self, which would be a relief. And the hit parade was just like old times. :smile:

I'm not going to hate my team or stop watching them just because they seem to be not headed for the postseason this year. Good gosh, what a sour, all-or-nothing attitude that is, IMO. I'm going to keep watching, because this is the point in the season where Kenny starts to address the problems. The outfield might wait until the off-season. There ARE worse outfields than Dye-Owens-Mackowiak, considering that it's an injury outfield. But the bullpen, that's a crisis.

mccoydp
07-13-2007, 08:37 AM
I was watching the game last night [on MASN], happy with the 9-2 Sox lead.

My wife comes downstairs, and asks who's winning. I told her the Sox were, 9-2.

She said "Watch them blow that lead".

And, I'll be doggoned, they almost did. :(:

I don't think Dewon Day could have gotten a blind man out last night. Just miserable pitching.

Good to see Thome, Dye, and Mack hitting well last night. Jon Garland seemed to show no ill effects from his shellacking last week.

Oh well, the Sox won! :bandance:

Flight #24
07-13-2007, 08:39 AM
For home games, when D. Day comes in with a big lead, they should play the clip from Animal House "Nothing is over until we decide it is". Because until they take him out, it's not!

The Racehorse
07-13-2007, 08:47 AM
I was watching the game last night [on MASN]...


Same here... what did you think of Rick Dempsey gushing allover Thornton? Too bad Rick wasn't their GM, because that'd be one deal the Sox could do to start the BP rebuilding process.

SoxandtheCityTee
07-13-2007, 09:05 AM
I liked her in "The Trouble With Angels" with all of her scathingly brilliant ideas!!! :cool:

Same in "The Parent Trap." I think that was remade recently.

Hayley Mills's screen debut was a 1959 British thriller called "Tiger Bay" in which she was cast with her father, Sir John Mills. She is a child who witnesses a murder, and he is a cop. She gets to show more acting chops than her later comedy work.

Back to the Sox: a win where the bullpen blows up in the 9th is still better than a loss where the bullpen blows up in the ninth -- by a long shot, at this point.

palehozenychicty
07-13-2007, 09:53 AM
We won, but that pen....:(:

Railsplitter
07-13-2007, 10:01 AM
Three wins in a row, three nanners dance.
:bandance::bandance::bandance:

If Ozzie went to Jenks one batter sooner, it would have been 9-4.

ZombieRob
07-13-2007, 10:09 AM
We won, but that pen....:(:
Thats what the shame of it all is. They win but there always seem to be "..But" that comes along with it.

upperdeckusc
07-13-2007, 10:24 AM
Three wins in a row, three nanners dance.
:bandance::bandance::bandance:

If Ozzie went to Jenks one batter sooner, it would have been 9-4.

Actually, 2 batters sooner. One batter sooner, he would have faced Aubrey Huff with 2 outs and nobody on, which wouldn't have effected the score at all, but i hear what your saying. How I look at the bullpen, I feel fairly confident going into the '08 season with Jenks, Thorton, and Logan in there. We need to land at least 2 solid RHP for the pen to feel decent about giving them the call in the 6th-8th. They had an interview with the Padres GM and he was talking about how they built their bullpen. They purposely scouted pitchers that had amazing control and good groundball ratios. It didnt matter how hard they threw the ball. It's worked out pretty well for them. I wish we could do some advanced scouting like that and plug those pieces in for '08. They don't have to be big names (obviously, I'd love big name relievers, but they'll cost more). But if we could find a linebrink or meredith or okajima somewhere, that'd obviously be the most effective way to help our pen without giving up the farm or spending too much money. Then we can use $$$ or trading chips (contreras/garland) to fill the positional holes. I heard Broadway thru his college career was a finesse/location pitcher. I don't know if he'd fit the bill, but anything is worth a shot now...

jabrch
07-13-2007, 10:37 AM
Thats what the shame of it all is. They win but there always seem to be "..But" that comes along with it.

There's only a but if you put one in. I don't care how ugly a win is - it is a win.

CLR01
07-13-2007, 10:41 AM
Same here... what did you think of Rick Dempsey gushing allover Thornton? Too bad Rick wasn't their GM, because that'd be one deal the Sox could do to start the BP rebuilding process.

He has great mechanics and never bet against a guy with great mechanics....

We won, but that pen....:(:


The pen pitched great, the Orioles just had nothing to loss and swung at everything. Just ask oeo, he'll tell you that as often as you want to here it.

Chicken Dinner
07-13-2007, 10:58 AM
If Ozzie went to Jenks one batter sooner, it would have been 9-4.

But Ozzie doesn't like to use Jenks in non-save situations because of stats.

jabrch
07-13-2007, 11:02 AM
But Ozzie doesn't like to use Jenks in non-save situations because of stats.


Or because closers in general tend to not be nearly as effective for some reason when used in non-save situations.

DickAllen72
07-13-2007, 11:17 AM
If a seven-run lead against the Orioles going into the ninth isn't enough...what is? Can any of us honestly believe this team has a chance after that?

Sure the Sox won...but what, exactly, did they gain?
Well, it was enough and they gained a win and a game on the first place Tigers.

Bill Naharodny
07-13-2007, 05:48 PM
Piersall wasn't "negative", he just called it like it was. Harry was allowed to leave because he refused to be a homer on-air (of course the Cubs money changed that stance later). Jimmy was the same way. Integrity meant something back then and it's what made those two the absolute best announcing team in Sox history.

Now...who replaced them? If you want a kiss-ass fan in the booth, Hawk is definately your man. I don't mind listening to him but his rhetoric is very Harryesque circa the Cubs years. But if you are looking for more than a fan with stories about the good old days, to announce your games, the Sox let the two best they ever had get away, then bad mouthed them at the end of the '83 season.

I Looooove Golf...but I couldn't care less what Hawk shot yesterday :D:

You, sir, are making sense. Thanks for that.

oeo
07-13-2007, 08:11 PM
The pen pitched great, the Orioles just had nothing to loss and swung at everything. Just ask oeo, he'll tell you that as often as you want to here it.

:rolleyes:

Nothing new from CLR01.