PDA

View Full Version : Worst Move of the Offseason Revisited


santo=dorf
07-11-2007, 05:48 PM
I asked this (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=85606) right before the season started, and some people felt it was too early to ask.
Let's have a totally biased, dark clouded view of each move at the halfway point of this season:
Freddy Garcia Trade: Garcia says he injured shoulder is something new this year and it doesn't take away from the fact KW should've received more for him with the season he was coming off of. His overall numbers were similar or even better to Garland's, and had a fantastic September that was highlighted by two 1 hitters. Gio Gonzalez is spending another year in AA, is putting up impressive numbers, but the fact is his value was higher when the Sox originally traded him for Thome. If you sold some stock for $200 and a year later bought it back (after it was disappointing) for $300, would you be bragging about how it is now for $400? :?: Gavin Floyd is a complete bust. KW said he would NOT trade a starting pitcher unless the return help the major league team for 2007. He then said Floyd would battle with McCarthy for the 5th starter's spot. McCarthy was then traded. It's pretty clear on what the Sox were trying to do with Floyd. Gavin is now out of options so come next spring, he's probably as good as gone. What exactly did KW spend Garcia's salary on?

Vazquez extension: Vazquez was still arbitration eligible for one more season due to demanding a trade, so what was the rush in signing him after coming off year another mediocre season? He has some good numbers this year, but they are coming during garbage time.

Gload Trade: Sisco is in AAA as a starter after flopping as a reliever. Gload could've filled in for Thome when he was out with a strained rib cage.

Cotts trade: Aarsdma has been sent to AAA twice and despite a great April, his ERA is still 6.40.

Re-signing Podsednik: Injury prone player who has been on the DL twice. He has even admitted that he's worthless if he can't steal bases.

McCarthy Trade: Danks isn't as good as he started off. He's giving up a ton of home runs. Masset has been terrible yet is still with the team. Rasner has a 6.65 ERA and 1.81 WHIP in Kanny. McCarthy has cut his home run rate down and has battled blisters.

Stewart Trade: Hall went down, Molina was awful with the stick. Stewart has better numbers than Hall and hasn't allowed a stolen base against.

Other: ???

Erstad signing: Another predictable injury-prone player who has been on the DL twice. He's burying the development of a younger CF. No power, doesn't walk. His offensive game consists of hitting bloop singles and grounding out to second base. He was supposed to move runners over, but he's only done it 5 times, and only 1 of those times did the runner score because of the advance. People actually thought of Dye in 2005 when the injury plagued Erstad was signed.

Releasing Eduardo Perez: The Sox wanted to give Thome more time off this year, and he got hurt. With all the Sox struggles against LHP, the Sox didn't bother carrying Perez, who has great career numbers against AL Central lefties and was having a monstrous spring.

Declining arbitration to David Riske: Riske was a type A free agent which meant if the Sox offered arbitration and he refused, the Sox would've received two supplemental draft picks. Riske was coming off a season in which he made $1.8 million dollars. If he accepted the Sox probably would've spent around $2.5 million to keep him. Does the Sox's current craptascular bullpen have room for Riske's 2.21 ERA and 1.30 WHIP? Nah, didn't think so.

Looking back, what was the worst offseason move?

Frontman
07-11-2007, 05:51 PM
In my opinion, I'd have to say none of them. I don't think any one move would not made would of kept this team above .500. (Although, I think not having Gload on the bench has hurt us a bit. Granted, HE got hurt, so what the hey can be said?)

jenn2080
07-11-2007, 06:12 PM
This should be a multiple answer poll. Agreed with the Gload, and not being bias either. I think despite some of the problems he has had in the field that he was a pretty decent bat on the bench. He may have been hurt this year, but you know never know if he would have been if was playing somewhere else. That trade has been a big bust since Sisco is in Charlotte.

The Toby Hall one is not turning out the way everyone hoped either.

chisoxfanatic
07-11-2007, 06:17 PM
Gload trade definitely. He was a decent bat off the bench. What did we get for him? A sour bust who will never pitch here again!

soxinem1
07-11-2007, 06:31 PM
Gload getting hurt with KC is hindsight, who says he gets hurt if he stays with the Sox? At the same token, who says he does not get hurt here. For a guy who got about 150 AB's in 2006, why pass the opportunity to trade a spare part for a hard-throwing lefty? On paper, that trade was fine for all involved.

Sisco can always come back, and come back strong.

And as far as Thome getting hurt, what what is Mackowiak for?

I think Vazquez getting the extension was unnecessary, especially with Buerhle's contract situation being more important.

If Perez was so good, why is he in ESPN's booth?

All the other moves were trivial.

The fact is, this is a team wide failure. Minus the starting pitching, the defense, hitting bullpen, and lack of doing what it takes to win is the biggest failure of the 2007 White Sox so far.

dickallen15
07-11-2007, 06:34 PM
You can take any one of the choices away, and the season would probably still be awful. I chose the Vazquez extension as I believe it is the one thing that will handcuff the White Sox in the future, unless Kenny is wise and deals him while he is hot. He usually has hot streaks every season. Chances are he'll be meat in a month or so.

The Racehorse
07-11-2007, 07:33 PM
With all the Sox power bats in a slumber early on, E Perez could have been the lone bright spot offensively, even if it would have been mostly against LHP.

JB98
07-11-2007, 07:34 PM
The Garcia trade. We had starting pitching to deal, and we didn't get anything that could help us in 2007.

Yes, I know Gio could be very good for us down the line. Yes, I know Freddy is hurt. But we should have gotten a major-league player in return for a guy who won 17 games last season.

Juice16
07-11-2007, 07:38 PM
The Garcia trade. We had starting pitching to deal, and we didn't get anything that could help us in 2007.

Yes, I know Gio could be very good for us down the line. Yes, I know Freddy is hurt. But we should have gotten a major-league player in return for a guy who won 17 games last season.

Agreed 1000%. My choice was the Gload trade though. An accomplished major league role player and lefty off the bench for Andrew Sisco. That's Andrew Sisco.

Dan Mega
07-11-2007, 08:22 PM
Agreed 1000%. My choice was the Gload trade though. An accomplished major league role player and lefty off the bench for Andrew Sisco. That's Andrew Sisco.

I voted before I saw that one. :(:

The Dude
07-11-2007, 08:59 PM
I stand by my decision of re-signing Pods as the worst move.

BadBobbyJenks
07-11-2007, 09:12 PM
:rolleyes:I really miss gload..

RowanDye
07-11-2007, 09:39 PM
In hindsight, I think the worst single move was declining Riske. Yes we probably would have been overpaying, but a veteran righty could have been huge. He's better this year than anyone on our team, except maybe Jenks. He could have single-handedly added 5 wins for the team right now.

I don't think re-signing Pods was a bad move in itself, coupling it with the Erstad signing, and counting on both of them to be starters was the real travesty.

If there was an option for "putting all your eggs into two broken baskets" I would have picked that.

whitesoxfan
07-11-2007, 09:40 PM
Re-signing Pods and signing Erstad. I didn't mind signing Erstad as a 4th OF, but expecting him to start over 130 games this season was ridiculous. Looking back on it, depending on two very injury-prone players was definitely the worst move(s) that KW made this offseason.

Tragg
07-11-2007, 09:42 PM
I asked this (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=85606) right before the season started, and some people felt it was too early to ask.
Let's have a totally biased, dark clouded view of each move at the halfway point of this season:
I read your list and I thought that you offered an awfully stitled view of things, and then I re-read your first paragraph.
The bottom line is, though, this team is 8 games below .500 and the moves haven't provided much help to the club this year. On the other hand, I can't say we'd be better had we not made the move. Maybe in the future we'll be better (or worse) because of them.
Given Ozzie's soft spot for hitters that get up to the plate and just hack away at everything, I would like to see Williams acquire a good hacker for Ozzie.

A. Cavatica
07-11-2007, 10:12 PM
I think the worst move would have to be a non-move: not acquiring a better shortstop, a better left fielder, or a better center fielder.

champagne030
07-11-2007, 10:12 PM
The Garcia trade. We had starting pitching to deal, and we didn't get anything that could help us in 2007.

Yes, I know Gio could be very good for us down the line. Yes, I know Freddy is hurt. But we should have gotten a major-league player in return for a guy who won 17 games last season.

:yup::thumbsup:

IMO, Floyd sealed that deal for Kenny. He's been after him for years (tried to trade Garland for him after 2004) and who knows why?

santo=dorf
07-11-2007, 10:15 PM
I think the worst move would have to be a non-move: not acquiring a better shortstop, a better left fielder, or a better center fielder.

:tsk::tsk::tsk:

From the original thread (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=85606):
No non-moves like almost trading Garland or not locking up Dye count.

whitesoxfan1986
07-11-2007, 11:03 PM
I vote None of the above. The biggest mistake was counting on Erstad to be a starter. When he was signed I thought he was being brought in as a backup 1B/CF. I always thought that Anderson would be in CF again. The fact that we don't know what we have with BA is parallel and equal with the Erstad situation. Ozzie was too impatient with BA, and Kenny needed to tell Ozzie to give BA another chance at CF. BA improved in the 2nd half last year, where he hit .257(with very sporadic playing time) as opposed to somewhere around .180 in the first half. That should have been enough to give him another shot with the big club. Young players don't always catch on right away, and it looked like BA was starting to catch on. It is total BS how this situation was handled.

santo=dorf
07-11-2007, 11:07 PM
I vote None of the above. The biggest mistake was counting on Erstad to be a starter. When he was signed I thought he was being brought in as a backup 1B/CF. I always thought that Anderson would be in CF again. The fact that we don't know what we have with BA is parallel and equal with the Erstad situation. Ozzie was too impatient with BA, and Kenny needed to tell Ozzie to give BA another chance at CF. BA improved in the 2nd half last year, where he hit .257(with very sporadic playing time) as opposed to somewhere around .180 in the first half. That should have been enough to give him another shot with the big club. Young players don't always catch on right away, and it looked like BA was starting to catch on. It is total BS how this situation was handled.
So perhaps if KW never signed Erstad to begin with, Ozzie wouldn't have had somebody to put in front of BA.

You honestly believe the Danks trade was as bad or good as the Garcia trade? If not, by definition there has to be a "worst" option.

Tragg
07-11-2007, 11:10 PM
So perhaps if KW never signed Erstad to begin with, Ozzie wouldn't have had somebody to put in front of BA.
Sure. Same guy who's playing there now.

hi im skot
07-11-2007, 11:47 PM
I think the worst move would have to be a non-move: not acquiring a better shortstop, a better left fielder, or a better center fielder.

Can they pitch, too?

whitesoxfan1986
07-11-2007, 11:51 PM
So perhaps if KW never signed Erstad to begin with, Ozzie wouldn't have had somebody to put in front of BA.

You honestly believe the Danks trade was as bad or good as the Garcia trade? If not, by definition there has to be a "worst" option.
McCarthy for Danks= Good move. I liked that trade at the time, and I like it even more now.
Garcia trade=Meh. In retrospect, I'm surprised we got Gio for him. If he was healthy, but performing like Contreras is now for the Sox, then I doubt we'd get Gio thrown in there. It would probably be Garcia for Floyd straight up.:(:

Frater Perdurabo
07-12-2007, 12:03 AM
It's interesting.

RH relief has been a big problem for the Sox both this year (Aardsma, MacDougal) and last (Politte, Hermanson).

Riske went between poor and mediocre last year, but his ERA this year definitely would have helped the Sox bullpen.

It just proves how inherently inconsistent and unreliable all but the best bullpen pitchers are.

The bottom line is that nowadays almost every single reliever was/is not good enough to be a starting pitcher.

The only exception I can think of is John Smoltz.

I think the Chris Stewart trade may be underrated in terms of it hurting the Sox. I have nothing against the guy they got back, and I have nothing against Hall. But Stewart clearly could play great defense, and certainly wouldn't have hit much worse than Hall's current .186 batting average and .182 OBP (yes, I know he gut hurt).

RockJock07
07-12-2007, 01:17 AM
None of the above, as most of said, non of these moves would have prevented the sox from suckin' ***.

Garcia is bad and hurt and would have been bad and hurt here too. Gio looks like he is going to be very solid and Floyd has started only 16 Major League games. I'd rather have a young, cheap option that has a lot of upside insted of a hurt, expensive, bad pitcher in Garcia.

As far as Erstad, I'm a big fan, and have been since I've been watching baseball. He was brought in as a back-up, 4th outfielder. It's not Darin's fault that Kenny and Ozzie don't like BA.

The Bullpen would have been lights out if it had worked out, but it didn't. But what KW gave up to get Aarsdma and Sisco are bad, Gload and Cotts.

If I was forced to say something, I would say Pods, but no other options where really good at the time, and not getting a quality SS.

Mohoney
07-12-2007, 10:36 PM
It has to be not offering arbitration to Riske. Not only because our bullpen blows and Riske could have helped, but even that the supplemental draft picks would be nice to have considering our farm system is looking like a bottom-third farm system right now.

Save McCuddy's
07-12-2007, 10:46 PM
I stand by my decision of re-signing Pods as the worst move.

Agreed. Couple that with the refusal to try Fields in left field during Spring Training.