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View Full Version : Is Tony LaRussa insane?????


Fenway
07-11-2007, 10:12 AM
This may not end well for Tony as if push comes to shove Tony loses this one


[/URL][URL="http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/51E17104A4DAD6A1862573150014629B?OpenDocument"]http://images.stltoday.com/stltoday/resources/pujols10sm95.jpg (http://www.stltoday.com/sports)
Where's Albert? On Tony's bench as NL loses again (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/51E17104A4DAD6A1862573150014629B?OpenDocument)
NL manager Tony La Russa held Cardinals slugger Albert Pujols out of the All-Star Game in case the game went extra innings. It didn't, and Pujols said, "If I wasn't expecting to play, I wouldn't have come up here." [more] (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/51E17104A4DAD6A1862573150014629B?OpenDocument)

Why on earth didn't LaRussa use him in the bottom of the 9th with 2 outs and a chance to win the game?????

PKalltheway
07-11-2007, 10:17 AM
Who knows. The NL could've actually won if Pujols was at the plate. Even if he didn't do anything, at least the NL would've went down with their best hitter at the plate. Just imagine how crazy the place would've went if they saw Pujols step out of the dugout in the 9th inning with the bases loaded. K-Rod is an awesome pitcher, but man, I would've felt for him in that situation if he had to face Pujols.:o:

Fenway
07-11-2007, 10:20 AM
Who knows. The NL could've actually won if Pujols was at the plate. Even if he didn't do anything, at least the NL would've went down with their best hitter at the plate. Just imagine how crazy the place would've went if they saw Pujols step out of the dugout in the 9th inning with the bases loaded.

I pretty sure Leyland this morning proably wishes he had used Okajima in the 8th and Papelbon in the 9th :tongue:

Dan the Man
07-11-2007, 10:25 AM
Who knows. The NL could've actually won if Pujols was at the plate. Even if he didn't do anything, at least the NL would've went down with their best hitter at the plate. Just imagine how crazy the place would've went if they saw Pujols step out of the dugout in the 9th inning with the bases loaded.
So they didn't go down with their best hitter. They went down with the greatest baseball player EVER.

balke
07-11-2007, 10:27 AM
Tony was interviewed mid game and made it sound like he wasn't going to use Pujols at all. I think he was trying to keep him out so he didn't have any chance of injury. I also don't know if Tony had any other CFers if Rowand went down. I went to sleep in the 7th.

Chicken Dinner
07-11-2007, 10:34 AM
Arow is a much better hitter than Pujols.:o:

PatK
07-11-2007, 10:40 AM
Tony managed that game like a bonehead.

Fenway
07-11-2007, 10:42 AM
Tony managed that game like a bonehead.

Bob Ryan agrees

Meanwhile, we have yet another case of Tony Being Tony (TBT). This TBT moment was Mr. LaRussa's curious decision to keep Albert Pujols safe and sound for the senior prom. Aaron Rowand is a good player. BUT HE'S NOT ALBERT PUJOLS!!!! I think you know where I'm going with this.


http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/bob_ryan_blog/2007/07/more_like_it.html

Viva Medias B's
07-11-2007, 10:59 AM
I think that Pujols has more pull than LaRussa does in St. Louis right now, and I bet Cardinal Nation mostly sides with Albert. I wonder if this will help push TLR out the door at the end of the season. The way he handled this and how he handled the Josh Hancock situation (confrontation with Bernie Miklasz, etc.) could hurt him.

CHISOXFAN13
07-11-2007, 11:07 AM
My bigger beef was him sticking with Reyes for eight innings. I know he had three hits, but if not for the wildness of Putz and K-Rod, Hardy would have not had a plate appearance.

Both managers **** the bed if you ask me.

TDog
07-11-2007, 11:07 AM
LaRussa knows Pujols better than the fans or members of the media. It's entirely possible he felt more confident with Rowand hitting in that situation. Pujols may have been on the team for the honor without any plans to play. The mistake may have, not failing to hit Pujols in that situation, but naming Pujols to the team in the first place.

Viva Medias B's
07-11-2007, 11:28 AM
To those of you in KMOX's listening audience, did Charlie Brennan talk about this today?

infohawk
07-11-2007, 11:35 AM
I'm just upset that Bobby was dissed. Didn't even have him warming up in the bullpen after Putz couldn't get it done and K-Rod was inexplicably wild. It's like Bobby was the last kid left on the playground because nobody wanted to pick him. Half-joking aside, I know that Leyland had to hold back a few bullets in case the NL tied the game and it went into extras.

JGarlandrules20
07-11-2007, 12:17 PM
I guess his reasoning was that there would be no one left on the bench in case the game went into extras if Pujols had pinch hit.

oeo
07-11-2007, 12:20 PM
My bigger beef was him sticking with Reyes for eight innings. I know he had three hits, but if not for the wildness of Putz and K-Rod, Hardy would have not had a plate appearance.

Both managers **** the bed if you ask me.

They do not have to give everyone a plate appearance, and not everyone needs to come in.

Putz just lost it...I don't think Leyland made a bad decision. Then I still think D-Lee went around on that pitch...stupid FOX will not show a side replay for whatever reason. In the 2005 World Series, they would have been all over that one.

Pujols vs. K-Rod would have made for a great AB. LaRussa had already said earlier in the game that he would play Pujols where ever if he had to...I just don't get if you're trying to win the game, you don't put your best guy up there. Leyland (by taking Putz out and yelling at the umpire when it looked like D-Lee struck out) looked like he was managing to win...LaRussa was there just have a good time.

South Side Irish
07-11-2007, 02:23 PM
I don't think sending Rowand was stupid, it was the decision to send up Arizona's Orlando Hudson. ***?! You've got decent speed on base, so why not put in Albert to drive one to the gap. Hell, he did blast a few out in the HR derby, so I think he could hit in that park.

While I disagree with keeping AP on the bench, nobody on the NL did anything to win except Soriano. What a blast his HR was. everyone else simply walked or got on with a crappy single (Young). Even if Pujols comes in and splashes one, it would've been the 3 consecutive walks that did the AL in. The NL only had a chance because the AL let them.

And LaRussa didn't mismanage the game. Once again, the AL's power pitching and better hitting won. The NL just isn't good enough, no matter who the manager. I never get how the NL manager (Garner, LaRussa, Baker, McKeon) is blasted for poor managing, when they JUST went to the World Series. Is it LaRussa's fault that Young served up Ichiro? Or that the Indian's catcher went yard? Once again, people just looking to ***** (cough:Bob Ryan:cough).

WSox597
07-11-2007, 04:10 PM
Maybe LaRussa can come back to Chicago in the not too distant future.

Of course, you'd have to run off the Hawk first.

Jjav829
07-11-2007, 05:35 PM
I keep hearing people asking why Pujols didn't pinch hit for Rowand. That's not the right question. The right question is why didn't Pujols pinch hit for Orlando Hudson. By the time Rowand came up, you already knew Pujols wasn't coming in the game. If LaRussa had any intention of using Pujols, the O-Dog never would have stepped foot into the batter's box.

AZChiSoxFan
07-12-2007, 09:49 AM
I pretty sure Leyland this morning proably wishes he had used Okajima in the 8th and Papelbon in the 9th :tongue:

If Brian Roberts had made that routine play, this would all be a moot point. Putz did his job and it should have been a 1-2-3 inning.

PatK
07-12-2007, 10:07 AM
If Brian Roberts had made that routine play, this would all be a moot point. Putz did his job and it should have been a 1-2-3 inning.

Exactly.

And how the hell was that scored a hit?

bennyw41
07-12-2007, 10:13 AM
Why do I feel like I'm the only one that thinks he was trying to put a fire under Pujols butt?

jabrch
07-12-2007, 10:15 AM
The genius of keyboarders never ceases to amaze me.

Tony has won 2 WS and made it to 5 of them. He's won over 2300 games. He's a 4 time manager of the year. And he has done this by not going with the book every time. In this case, he chose to leave a .300 hitter at the dish so that his MVP would still be available later in the game to PH for a pitcher.

The all-star game in an NL park is very different than a regular season game - and should be managed differently. The difference between Albert and any of the hitters on that team is nominal relative to the difference between Albert and whatever reliever he'd have had hitting.

jabrch
07-12-2007, 10:31 AM
I keep hearing people asking why Pujols didn't pinch hit for Rowand. That's not the right question. The right question is why didn't Pujols pinch hit for Orlando Hudson. By the time Rowand came up, you already knew Pujols wasn't coming in the game. If LaRussa had any intention of using Pujols, the O-Dog never would have stepped foot into the batter's box.


Hudson is hitting .296/.380. You want to burn your .310/.410 PH with only 1 out?

You can argue it either way. Had he PH and Pujols doubled in the gap, and then they ended the inning there, and the RP comes up in the next inning, you are stuck with a reliever hitting. I know - you may not get there and Albert gives you the "best" chance - but it isn't like we are PH for Mario Mendoza. Hudson is a .296/.380 hitter this year. Rowand is hitting .310/.385.

If this was a .200/.300 hitter who hit, then yes - you always PH for that. But that's not the case. This is a .300/.380 guy who he let hit. The odds of Pujols getting a hit are not that much greater. Even add in the SLG - Row slugs about .480 and Hud is slugging about .450 while Albert is slugging .516. Yes - there is a differnce. But I don't think the difference is so great that you make that move - in this particular case.

The all-star game is very different and requires different management. By nature a manager does a million things that are completely senseless for 8 innings. You can't expect the 9th inning to suddenly be played by "the book".

If a manager ever really tried to win the game, he'd be one of the least popluar managers in baseball. He'd go with his starter for 3-4 innings, then bring his next best SP for 3-4 innings, and his ace closer for one. TLR would have thrown Peavy, Penny and Hoff - that's it. The AL would have thrown Haren, Beckett and Paps - that's it. The guys on the bench - they'd have not gotten in except for the 2 PH for the pitcher and maybe someone PH for Polanco.

I feel that applying conventional baseball wisdom, or even modern baseball wisdumb to the all-star game would lead you to draw some really silly conclusions.

Jjav829
07-12-2007, 11:31 AM
Hudson is hitting .296/.380. You want to burn your .310/.410 PH with only 1 out?

There were 2 outs. The only reason Rowand even batted was because K-Rod couldn't throw a strike against Hudson. If Hudson makes an out, the game is over and Rowand never bats.

You can argue it either way. Had he PH and Pujols doubled in the gap, and then they ended the inning there, and the RP comes up in the next inning, you are stuck with a reliever hitting. I know - you may not get there and Albert gives you the "best" chance - but it isn't like we are PH for Mario Mendoza. Hudson is a .296/.380 hitter this year. Rowand is hitting .310/.385. Orlando Hudson is a career .277 hitter with a career .772 OPS. Pujols is a career .330 hitter with a career 1.037 OPS.

Hudson's 2007 marks are easily career highs. Pujols' 2007 marks are easily career lows.

One is a HOF'er. The other is a decent middle infielder known more for his defense and personality than his bat.

Tough call there as to which guy I'd rather have at the plate with the game on the line. On one hand, Pujols is one of the top 3 players in the game and on his way to being one of the best players ever. But on the other hand, Hudson's personality could have caused K-Rod to feel bad for trying to get him out.

The all-star game is very different and requires different management. By nature a manager does a million things that are completely senseless for 8 innings. You can't expect the 9th inning to suddenly be played by "the book".Uhh, yes you can. Most managers even admit to that. Most All Star game managers, and players for that matter, admit that the first 5 or 6 innings are all about getting players into the game and having fun, and that near the 7th or 8th inning they start to get serious about winning the game.

downstairs
07-12-2007, 02:33 PM
The genius of keyboarders never ceases to amaze me.

Tony has won 2 WS and made it to 5 of them. He's won over 2300 games. He's a 4 time manager of the year. And he has done this by not going with the book every time. In this case, he chose to leave a .300 hitter at the dish so that his MVP would still be available later in the game to PH for a pitcher.

The all-star game in an NL park is very different than a regular season game - and should be managed differently. The difference between Albert and any of the hitters on that team is nominal relative to the difference between Albert and whatever reliever he'd have had hitting.

Why wouldn't Albert be available later in extra innings? He'd have to keep him in, and its not like he can't field (and well).

If he was doing it to save Albert from injury, then that is just wrong- ESPECIALLY considering he's Albert's manager. That's a disservice to the game.

Pretend the game goes 5 extra innings. That's 5 whole whoppin' innings for someone who plays close to 1400 a year and has no trouble playing more than 5 extra innings when the playoffs come

Please. It was dumb, selfish, or both.

StepsInSC
07-12-2007, 06:11 PM
Why on earth didn't LaRussa use him in the bottom of the 9th with 2 outs and a chance to win the game?????


Does Jim Frey and the 1981 All Star game ring a bell to anyone?

Granted, LaRussa's mismanagement early in the game is what caused the problem in the bottom of the 9th. But when faced with the likelihood of extra innings without having any bench players left, I can't say his decision in the 9th was unreasonable.

The Racehorse
07-12-2007, 06:25 PM
Does Jim Frey and the 1981 All Star game ring a bell to anyone?


Was that when Gary Templeton said, "if I ain't startin, I ain't departin"?

StepsInSC
07-12-2007, 06:34 PM
Was that when Gary Templeton said, "if I ain't startin, I ain't departin"?

Haha, I think that was in the late '70s although it seems entirely appropriate. I was just referring to Frey who was the manager of the AL squad and was forced to let a pitcher hit in the last at bat of the game with the tying run on. It was before I was born, but I've heard others discuss it.

Mohoney
07-13-2007, 02:10 PM
The AL would have thrown Haren, Beckett and Paps - that's it.

If you were managing to win, you would have to find some way to get Santana in there for a couple innings.