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View Full Version : You can forget about Ichiro...


chisoxmike
07-10-2007, 04:37 PM
Per foxsports.com...

Ichiro is eligible for free agency at the end of the season, but it doesn't appear he will reach that point.
Ichiro and the Mariners are engaged in serious talks about a five-year contract extension that would keep him in Seattle long-term, FOXSports.com has learned.
The deal is believed to be worth between $75 million and $90 million.

HotelWhiteSox
07-10-2007, 05:02 PM
Not that surprised, esp now that they are winning, who knows how long that would last, I thought they'd be improved, but they have some nice talent

Rockabilly
07-10-2007, 05:03 PM
Dammit

Frater Perdurabo
07-10-2007, 05:06 PM
Rats

If the Sox can't get him, though, at least I'd like to keep him away from other AL Central teams, the Yankees, the Red Sox and the Cubs.

Foulke You
07-10-2007, 05:10 PM
I had a feeling the M's weren't going to let Ichiro get away. He is their #1 gate attraction and with the Mariners having a good season it became even less likely that he would leave. Looks like KW is going to have to look elsewhere for CF help.

kidmccarthy
07-10-2007, 05:12 PM
Well crap. He was my offseason dream. The only problem is if its the 90 million range for 5 years, Hunter, Jones and Rowand will be expensive. I know Aaron will take a little less to play here again, but do we really want to pay him 10 mil a year? I dont. Boras is creaming his pants right now, as Andruw Jones will command 20 mil a year easy with Ichiro off the map. Kenny might look to Arod then???

JB98
07-10-2007, 05:30 PM
Well crap. He was my offseason dream. The only problem is if its the 90 million range for 5 years, Hunter, Jones and Rowand will be expensive. I know Aaron will take a little less to play here again, but do we really want to pay him 10 mil a year? I dont. Boras is creaming his pants right now, as Andruw Jones will command 20 mil a year easy with Ichiro off the map. Kenny might look to Arod then???

Andrew Jones is hitting roughly .210. He will command nowhere near $20 million without a monster second half.

The Mariners are winning, and Hargrove is gone. Those two factors are going to keep Ichiro in Seattle.

I don't think Rowand will be that expensive. He's having a big year, but he's not in the class with Hunter and Jones career-wise. I think the Sox should at least kick the tires on him. Mike Cameron and Eric Byrnes are also worth a look. KW can get quality at the position without breaking the bank.

getonbckthr
07-10-2007, 05:35 PM
Andrew Jones is hitting roughly .210. He will command nowhere near $20 million without a monster second half.

The Mariners are winning, and Hargrove is gone. Those two factors are going to keep Ichiro in Seattle.

I don't think Rowand will be that expensive. He's having a big year, but he's not in the class with Hunter and Jones career-wise. I think the Sox should at least kick the tires on him. Mike Cameron and Eric Byrnes are also worth a look. KW can get quality at the position without breaking the bank.
The problem will be the Texas Rangers

Lip Man 1
07-10-2007, 05:52 PM
From what I have read Texas is setting their sites on Hunter and Dye.

Lip

getonbckthr
07-10-2007, 05:54 PM
From what I have read Texas is setting their sites on Hunter and Dye.

Lip
And if Arod opts out they have 9 additional million to throw around.

getonbckthr
07-10-2007, 05:55 PM
BBTN just said 5 years 100 million. Let the insanity begin.

RowanDye
07-10-2007, 06:02 PM
BBTN just said 5 years 100 million. Let the insanity begin.

So much for KW's market correction theory...

DickAllen72
07-10-2007, 06:08 PM
I'm actually glad it looks like the M's will re-sign him.

Ichiro was always my dream acquisition for the sox and I thought they had a serious shot at getting him when he reached free agency. But seeing how poorly the Sox are performing right when he is in his final year on his contract, there is no way he would want to come here unless the Sox blew all other offers out of the water--and you know they're not going to do that. (Please don't anyone take that last comment as sox management bashing because it's not.)

Timing is everything. Had his contract expired after last season or the season before, I'd bet the Sox would have been favorites to sign him. Those are the breaks.

If the Sox can't have him, I'd like to see him stay where he is.

JB98
07-10-2007, 06:26 PM
The problem will be the Texas Rangers

Texas has the money, but you have to wonder whether free agents will be scared off by the horrid pitching on that team.

They are arguably the worst team in the league this year.

getonbckthr
07-10-2007, 06:30 PM
Texas has the money, but you have to wonder whether free agents will be scared off by the horrid pitching on that team.

They are arguably the worst team in the league this year.
For the Reds, Drays, Pirates, Royals etc etc etc I agree but how Texas loves to throw money in garbage how could you say no? You get offered 4/40 to play for Boston or NYY or Chisox and Texas offers 5/70 would you refuse that? It would be extremely difficult for me no matter how bad I want a title.

Daver
07-10-2007, 06:33 PM
For the Reds, Drays, Pirates, Royals etc etc etc I agree but how Texas loves to throw money in garbage how could you say no? You get offered 4/40 to play for Boston or NYY or Chisox and Texas offers 5/70 would you refuse that? It would be extremely difficult for me no matter how bad I want a title.

Paul Konerko agreed to six million less to NOT have to play for Peter Angelos.

getonbckthr
07-10-2007, 06:37 PM
Paul Konerko agreed to six million less to NOT have to play for Peter Angelos.
Also turned down higher Anaheim offer. Wish all players were that loyal, unfortunately they aren't.

JB98
07-10-2007, 06:47 PM
For the Reds, Drays, Pirates, Royals etc etc etc I agree but how Texas loves to throw money in garbage how could you say no? You get offered 4/40 to play for Boston or NYY or Chisox and Texas offers 5/70 would you refuse that? It would be extremely difficult for me no matter how bad I want a title.

I wonder if Torii would take less money to stay with the Twins.

And I wouldn't put it by Boston and New York to match whatever Texas throws at Hunter, if indeed the Rangers are major players.

Like I said, I wouldn't be surprised to see a big-market bidding war for Torii.

DumpJerry
07-10-2007, 07:37 PM
Rats

If the Sox can't get him, though, at least I'd like to keep him away from other AL Central teams, the Yankees, the Red Sox and the Cubs.
Why the Cubs? We play them only 6 times a year and it would get him out of the AL.

The good thing about this is the fact that he is tradable (depending on the status of a NTC, if one, and his 5&10 status) before June of next year since he is not a FA signing.

Vernam
07-10-2007, 08:16 PM
Ichiro is eligible for free agency at the end of the season, but it doesn't appear he will reach that point.
Ichiro and the Mariners are engaged in serious talks about a five-year contract extension that would keep him in Seattle long-term, FOXSports.com has learned.
The deal is believed to be worth between $75 million and $90 million.But will he get a no-trade clause?! :redneck

All of us who screamed for Buehrle to be re-signed won't really have the right to squawk if the Sox don't bid on Ichiro or Hunter.

Vernam

Frater Perdurabo
07-10-2007, 08:27 PM
Why the Cubs? We play them only 6 times a year and it would get him out of the AL.

The good thing about this is the fact that he is tradable (depending on the status of a NTC, if one, and his 5&10 status) before June of next year since he is not a FA signing.

It's a moot point, but I don't want a team that competes with the Sox for fan attention and dollars to get a player of Ichiro's caliber and drawing power.

Daver
07-10-2007, 08:34 PM
Also turned down higher Anaheim offer. Wish all players were that loyal, unfortunately they aren't.

The Sox matched Anaheim's offer.

Lip Man 1
07-10-2007, 08:54 PM
Remember there are some other center fielders out there as well...Rowand, Jones and Cameron come to mind.

Lip

Frater Perdurabo
07-10-2007, 08:57 PM
Remember there are some other center fielders out there as well...Rowand, Jones and Cameron come to mind.

Lip

None of them can lead off, though.

JB98
07-10-2007, 09:00 PM
None of them can lead off, though.

No, but solidifying CF has to be a top priority. Rowand, Cameron, Byrnes, I would take any one of them for a fair price.

I hope they call up Richar sometime soon. The kid has the speed. It would be great if we could somehow fill that leadoff spot from within.

Frater Perdurabo
07-10-2007, 09:10 PM
No, but solidifying CF has to be a top priority. Rowand, Cameron, Byrnes, I would take any one of them for a fair price.

I hope they call up Richar sometime soon. The kid has the speed. It would be great if we could somehow fill that leadoff spot from within.

I'd love it if leadoff could be filled from within.

I wish you - and the Sox - would give Anderson a real chance. We already know his defense is top-notch. Given a full season, I think he could hit .250, 20 homers and 30 doubles. But we'll never know unless he gets an opportunity. The second half of 2007 is the PERFECT time to find out, right?

If he gets 6 starts in CF per week for the rest of the year and if he hits like crap, then I will accept that he's not the answer.

santo=dorf
07-10-2007, 09:11 PM
None of them can lead off, though.
Lead off hitter is not a position. It is merely the spot in the lineup which guarantees the most PA's for a regular player. There is only one guarantee per game that the "lead off hitter" will have nobody on base with no outs in the innings.

Build a team by the position in the field, not by the spot in a lineup.

JB98
07-10-2007, 09:19 PM
I'd love it if leadoff could be filled from within.

I wish you - and the Sox - would give Anderson a real chance. We already know his defense is top-notch. Given a full season, I think he could hit .250, 20 homers and 30 doubles. But we'll never know unless he gets an opportunity. The second half of 2007 is the PERFECT time to find out, right?

If he gets 6 starts in CF per week for the rest of the year and if he hits like crap, then I will accept that he's not the answer.

I lost confidence in Anderson a long, long time ago. You could make an argument that he should be given another opportunity here in the second half. We don't have a collection of brilliant options to choose from otherwise. But frankly, I'd be stunned if he's the answer.

If you think I don't like Anderson, you should hear what I have to say about Owens.

BA > Owens

That's why we have to get outfield help from outside the organization.

CLR01
07-10-2007, 10:44 PM
I wish you - and the Sox - would give Anderson a real chance. We already know his defense is top-notch. Given a full season, I think he could hit .250, 20 homers and 30 doubles. But we'll never know unless he gets an opportunity. The second half of 2007 is the PERFECT time to find out, right?

Nope, we are going for it in the second half. Besides, we have already filled our quota of no hit defensive specialist and I really think Uribe is going to start clicking the second half and put up all-star numbers for the rest of his career.

TDog
07-11-2007, 12:44 AM
I'm actually happy to see Ichiro close to signing with the Mariners because he means so much to Mariners fans.

Randar68
07-11-2007, 04:23 AM
as Andruw Jones will command 20 mil a year easy with Ichiro off the map.

Not with the way he has played this year... and his weight/motivation issues and lack of range compared to his earlier years.

goofymsfan
07-11-2007, 06:10 AM
I'm actually happy to see Ichiro close to signing with the Mariners because he means so much to Mariners fans.

He has pretty much become the face of the Mariners. I do hope these rumors are true and that the actual contract signing comes soon.

Frater Perdurabo
07-11-2007, 06:52 AM
Lead off hitter is not a position. It is merely the spot in the lineup which guarantees the most PA's for a regular player. There is only one guarantee per game that the "lead off hitter" will have nobody on base with no outs in the innings.

Build a team by the position in the field, not by the spot in a lineup.

You don't have to sell me on the importance of fielding a good defensive team. But when filling the positions, you have to take your lineup into consideration: you really have to have both right-handed and left-handed hitters, you need someone who can take pitches, get on base and steal at least a few bases to lead off, and you need some guys who can hit for power to stick in the middle of the order.

Other than Pods and Erstad, no one on this team is capable of being a good leadoff hitter.

The FA CF candidates - Rowand, Hunter, Cameron, Jones, etc. - aren't prototypical leadoff hitters, either.

Ideally, the Sox find a shortstop, second baseman, right fielder or center fielder with the skills at the plate to lead off. Why? Because Thome, PK, AJ, Crede and Fields sure as heck can't lead off.

The other alternative is to find a player like Pods, who is good enough to lead off, but gets put in left field where his below-average defense will cause the least harm.

PennStater98r
07-11-2007, 09:31 AM
And if Arod opts out they have 9 additional million to throw around.

:thud:

Flight #24
07-11-2007, 09:49 AM
Ichiro for ~$20M/yr. Take notice Kenny - doesn't seem like that "market correction" is happening yet, here's hoping you weren't relying on that for the future of the team.

Mickster
07-11-2007, 10:01 AM
Ichiro for ~$20M/yr. Take notice Kenny - doesn't seem like that "market correction" is happening yet, here's hoping you weren't relying on that for the future of the team.

This signing makes Buehrle's "discount" seem all that more impressive to me. Amazing how we almost traded him because of the NTC.

oeo
07-13-2007, 04:08 PM
Ichiro for ~$20M/yr. Take notice Kenny - doesn't seem like that "market correction" is happening yet, here's hoping you weren't relying on that for the future of the team.

Did Kenny ever say that it would happen within a year? The way I see it, some of these teams are going to get killed by these contracts a couple years down the road. Signing older guys (like Ichiro and Soriano) to these long-term, high-priced contracts are not going to be good for their futures. Prices will drop...and there will only be a few teams that won't be handcuffed by these absurd deals.

BTW, the Sox are not the only organization that think this new market is going to end up hurting baseball in the end.

Flight #24
07-13-2007, 04:21 PM
Did Kenny ever say that it would happen within a year? The way I see it, some of these teams are going to get killed by these contracts a couple years down the road. Signing older guys (like Ichiro and Soriano) to these long-term, high-priced contracts are not going to be good for their futures. Prices will drop...and there will only be a few teams that won't be handcuffed by these absurd deals.

BTW, the Sox are not the only organization that think this new market is going to end up hurting baseball in the end.

Here's the problem: If there's a correction 3-4 years out, what is the Sox plan for the interim? By then a large portion of their core: Konerko, Thome, Buehrle, Garland, etc will be old or need resigning. I can't believe Kenny's plan is to wait 3 years for guys to be "given away" and then to basically restock the team with these guys.

Waiting for a potential correction only works if it's coming soon. Otherwise, you're really rebuilding already, but just not going all out to do it.

dakuda
07-13-2007, 04:29 PM
Fox sports says the deal is now final

5/90

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7018682

Lip Man 1
07-13-2007, 04:48 PM
OEO:

I recall reading direct quotes in the newspapers from Kenny where he said he thought there would be a market correction next off season (this Winter...)

Take it for what it's worth.

Lip

wassagstdu
07-14-2007, 07:59 AM
Devastating. Well, we saved $100 MM. Where to spend it ....

Frater Perdurabo
07-14-2007, 08:09 AM
When KW says he expects a market correction - it likely means he hopes there will be a market correction.

It's kind of like we expect KW to find a great leadoff hitter - we really mean we hope he does so.

:redface:

Flight #24
07-14-2007, 08:18 AM
When KW says he expects a market correction - it likely means he hopes there will be a market correction.

It's kind of like we expect KW to find a great leadoff hitter - we really mean we hope he does so.

:redface:
Well, I expect KW has a backup plan. At least I hope so.

spiffie
07-14-2007, 08:54 AM
Kenny Williams from the Chicago Sun-Times 12/3/06:

People like to think that there was some secret agreement made a few years ago and thatís why the market seemed to stabilize, but it never really did. This offseason will lead to an eventual market correction. It may not be next year or the year after, but a lot of people will get burned by this. And it wonít be an agreement or anything like that. It will be because people are broke.

Quote found on Baseball Think Factory http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/newsstand/discussion/chicago_sun_times_seizing_the_in_house_talent/

WhiteSox5187
07-14-2007, 12:11 PM
Well, I expect KW has a backup plan. At least I hope so.
Sure we do! We bring in more Ryan Bukvichs!