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View Full Version : Score Reports Buehrle Deal "Likely" Done IV


beckett21
07-07-2007, 11:26 PM
Well, it's nothing like a no trade clause. The team would be free to move him to anyone willing to take on his contract and the 5th year could actually make him more attractive to other teams, given where the free agent market for pitchers is headed. It's just an extra year on his deal at $3 million over his regular annual salary of $14 million.

Exactly.

Certainly sounds like a reasonable and viable solution to me, especially since no one knows what the market is going to be 5 years from now.

Looks like Kenny has painted himself into a corner. No one is going to buy the 'we tried' routine anymore, at least not in this case.

Tragg
07-07-2007, 11:39 PM
Per Jason Stark, the Red Sox are trying to peddle Julio Lugo off in a MB deal.
I guess I can't blame them, but geeze. That's just not serious.

Lugo has never been a top-end shorstop, yet Theo signed him for $8 mill per. He's not worth $3 mill.

nccwsfan
07-07-2007, 11:42 PM
Exactly.

Certainly sounds like a reasonable and viable solution to me, especially since no one knows what the market is going to be 5 years from now.

Looks like Kenny has painted himself into a corner. No one is going to buy the 'we tried' routine anymore, at least not in this case.

If this latest report is accurate (Buehrle backing off on the full NTC and working towards a limited NTC) then it's absolutely positively a fair deal for the White Sox- they would be foolish not to take it. I agree with oeo's posts on this- until an announcement has been made, whether it be on an extension or a trade, it's speculation and needs to be kept in perspective. I'm not buying this story as the gospel....

Hunker down
07-07-2007, 11:43 PM
Interesting article from ESPN regarding how Buehrle offered to sign a contract without a blanket no-trade clause. What Mark offered was a $17 million player option to kick in 2012 if the Sox traded him. If this article has any truth to it, it makes you wonder if KW was pulling our chains all along.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2929267

wealz07
07-07-2007, 11:50 PM
It's far more likely that they'd be stuck with bad Buehrle for 4 years at $56M than it would be to get anything more than an a mediocre prospect if he's pitching well with that option. The downside is too great here for the Sox.

Patrick134
07-07-2007, 11:51 PM
Interesting article from ESPN regarding how Buehrle offered to sign a contract without a blanket no-trade clause. What Mark offered was a $17 million player option to kick in 2012 if the Sox traded him. If this article has any truth to it, it makes you wonder if KW was pulling our chains all along.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2929267


No it makes you wonder who listens to another erroneous espn reprt.

Tragg
07-07-2007, 11:52 PM
Interesting article from ESPN regarding how Buehrle offered to sign a contract without a blanket no-trade clause. What Mark offered was a $17 million player option to kick in 2012 if the Sox traded him. If this article has any truth to it, it makes you wonder if KW was pulling our chains all along.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2929267

I'm not on Williams' side on this issue in general, but doesn't a $17 million option effectively create a NTC, by making him untradeable?

It's Time
07-07-2007, 11:54 PM
I heard Jeff Blansey's report on channel 7 news. Basically, Buehrle would agree to the deal only if the White Sox guaranteed 17M in the final year of the deal if he is not traded.

Blansey said ths Kenny said " No way" or something along those lines. Buehrle is gone. I never thought I would have ill feelings towards KW and JR after 2005, but I can honestly say they both make me sick.:o:

FJA
07-08-2007, 12:01 AM
It's far more likely that they'd be stuck with bad Buehrle for 4 years at $56M than it would be to get anything more than an a mediocre prospect if he's pitching well with that option. The downside is too great here for the Sox.

***** - the upside in the much more likely scenario that Buehrle continues the performance he's given us for the better part of seven years is great.

DoItForDanPasqua
07-08-2007, 12:02 AM
Buehrle is offering them a great deal. Even with the option, this is well below market value. Maybe if he offers to wash JR's car every Sunday for the length of the contract they will take this deal.

I just can't believe how far this team has sunk. Just last year they were talking dynasty; I didn't know they meant the 80's TV show.

DoItForDanPasqua
07-08-2007, 12:09 AM
Exactly.

Certainly sounds like a reasonable and viable solution to me, especially since no one knows what the market is going to be 5 years from now.

Looks like Kenny has painted himself into a corner. No one is going to buy the 'we tried' routine anymore, at least not in this case.

That's right, they didn't try at all, and I'm not believing that bull****. Any team that plays in a large market and is serious about contending would not pass on a pitcher who is consistent, healthy, lefty and popular with the fans. Buerhle is offering them a more than fair deal, and everyone knows it.

RowanDye
07-08-2007, 12:10 AM
I heard Jeff Blansey's report on channel 7 news. Basically, Buerhle would agree to the deal only if the White Sox guaranteed 17M in the final year of the deal if he is not traded.

Blansey said ths Kenny said " No way" or something along those lines. Buehrle is gone. I never thought I would have ill feelings towards KW and JR after 2005, but I can honestly say they both make me sick.:o:

I just don't understand KW's position against the NTC, I don't see how it really matters that much.

If Buehrle is pitching well, then we have a top pitcher and fan favorite for below market value.

If Buehrle starts sucking then his trade value will be crap anyways.

I'm so ****ing tired of this situation and I'm just a fan, I can't imagine how Buehrle is feeling right now.

voodoochile
07-08-2007, 12:11 AM
I thought you could only get insurance on the first three years of a contract. Based on that, it makes sense to be cautious about big money contracts that go past that length as the team could end up eating all of the money. The Sox would already be on the hook for $14M should Buehrle suffer a catastrophic injury forcing his retirement. Add on a 5th year and it becomes $31M.

I seriously doubt JR will authorize that kind of risk even if BurlyMon is a durable pitcher in the prime of his career.

All these people vilifying KW and JR. It's easy to do when all you have to think with is your heart and it isn't your money on the line.

Yeah, yeah, yeah... I know... it IS your money. So go ahead and vote with your wallet.

wealz07
07-08-2007, 12:12 AM
***** - the upside in the much more likely scenario that Buehrle continues the performance he's given us for the better part of seven years is great.

How'd that Jose Contreras extension work out. You know the one where Jose had turned the corner? That was met with open arms as I recall and he actually pitched well for a bit. That was also for roughly half of what Buehrle's asking for.

thomas35forever
07-08-2007, 12:13 AM
I don't quite understand what it's gonna take for KW to agree with Buehrle on something. If I were team owner and we lost Buehrle, I'd fire KW in a microsecond. He is about to become the most unpopular baseball figure in Chicago. Let me be the first to call for KW's firing or resignation unless this deal somehow gets done.

Dan the Man
07-08-2007, 12:13 AM
If Buehrle is not signed, which looks like it will be a reality, I will be so unbelievably pissed. If reports are true, then there were several options to choose from for him to sign. JR's, and mainly KW's unwillingness to negotiate with Agent X's players, draft players that will want this in the future, offer players contracts more than this many years, etc. is plain stubborn.

TomParrish79
07-08-2007, 12:15 AM
the more i think about it, the more I think that there is no way this can be true. I mean there is no way the Sox would turn down a deal like that. Cant be true...

DoItForDanPasqua
07-08-2007, 12:16 AM
I don't quite understand what it's gonna take for KW to agree with Buehrle on something. If I were team owner and we lost Buehrle, I'd fire KW in a microsecond. He is about to become the most unpopular baseball figure in Chicago. Let me be the first to call for KW's firing or resignation unless this deal somehow gets done.

You're right, he can't do anything right.

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:0joqYtGbDsckBM:http://www.nbc5.com/2006/0404/8463538_240X180.jpg

RCWHITESOX
07-08-2007, 12:17 AM
How in the world any of you can defend Sox management for not signing M Buehrle is ridiculous. First of all in todays market he is giving the Sox a home team discount. Next Kenny has said since day one pitching is his first priority; so how in the world do you trade a 28 year old pitcher in his prime. Again he came up in our own system and what kind of loyalty is it to move him when he is in a point of his career to make his dollars. This sounds to me like a power play by Kenny and if Buehrle gets traded we the fans lose. The Sox don't need to dismantle this team been there done that. Move Conteras for prospects. Try to move Dye to a contender for some OF or pitching help. Sign Iguchi or trade him if you have to. Get some bullpen help before the trade deadline and in the off season as well as a top notch CF. But most of all sign Buehrle as pitching is by far the hardest thing to replace. Do you hear me Kenny?

KRS1
07-08-2007, 12:18 AM
Add on a 5th year and it becomes $31M.



Well, if the report is true, and I dont believe anything I read about this anymore unless it is from the horses mouth, we wouldnt be on the hook for that 17M in any scenario. The fifth year at 17M only kicks in if he were to be traded, and that wouldnt be our financial responsibility. Like I said though, I dontbelieve anything I read about this whole mess now, just thought I'd clear that up.

It's Time
07-08-2007, 12:18 AM
MB has done everything but beg the White Sox to sign him. He has made concessions that he doesn't need to make. He is the face of the franchise and JR and KW are basically telling him don't let the door hit you in the ass. :angry:

Corlose 15
07-08-2007, 12:20 AM
I thought you could only get insurance on the first three years of a contract. Based on that, it makes sense to be cautious about big money contracts that go past that length as the team could end up eating all of the money. The Sox would already be on the hook for $14M should Buehrle suffer a catastrophic injury forcing his retirement. Add on a 5th year and it becomes $31M.

I seriously doubt JR will authorize that kind of risk even if BurlyMon is a durable pitcher in the prime of his career.

All these people vilifying KW and JR. It's easy to do when all you have to think with is your heart and it isn't your money on the line.

Yeah, yeah, yeah... I know... it IS your money. So go ahead and vote with your wallet.

The way I read it the Sox won't be on the hook for that fifth year because it only kicks in if he's traded. If he has to retire 2 years into the deal they're only on the hook for 54 Million.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if they don't resign Buehrle it will bite them in the ass both on and off the field.

Buehrle is the kind of player you build championship teams around.

DoItForDanPasqua
07-08-2007, 12:21 AM
I wonder how much say KW actually has on this. This not a trade but a pure money decision. I know Williams has made mistakes, but I can't believe any GM serious about winning would pass this up.

HotelWhiteSox
07-08-2007, 12:22 AM
You're right, he can't do anything right.

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:0joqYtGbDsckBM:http://www.nbc5.com/2006/0404/8463538_240X180.jpg

I like KW but a lot of the 05 signings were players no one else wanted or wanted to pay that much for, and a little bit of luck as Dye was a man of his word and took less money too early.

He's still had great moves, but he's not invincible

Corlose 15
07-08-2007, 12:23 AM
How'd that Jose Contreras extension work out. You know the one where Jose had turned the corner? That was met with open arms as I recall and he actually pitched well for a bit. That was also for roughly half of what Buehrle's asking for.

You can't really compare Buehrle's career with Contreras. Buehrle has what 6.5/7 good years with the Sox whereas Contreras had a good .5 year going into that contract? Not to mention Buehrle is at least 5 years younger than him?

nccwsfan
07-08-2007, 12:24 AM
I'm not on Williams' side on this issue in general, but doesn't a $17 million option effectively create a NTC, by making him untradeable?

Not necessarily. Even if he signed the above terms he could still be traded to a team with deep pockets, whether he wanted to go there or not. Also, the mentioned terms are still a lot lower than what he could get on the open market in November (plus he gets to choose his ideal situation/location).

It's Time
07-08-2007, 12:24 AM
The fifth year at 17M only kicks in if he were to be traded, and that wouldnt be our financial responsibility.

Yes, it would. Any team the White Sox would trade with would absolutely tell the Sox to foot most of that bill. Still, the Sox are digging themselves a terrible hole, not only on the field, but in the PR department as well.

They had better sign him.

ChiSoxGirl
07-08-2007, 12:26 AM
Parts of this article (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/gameday_recap.jsp?ymd=20070707&content_id=2073173&vkey=recap&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws) from whitesox.com make me want to :whiner:. Here are a couple examples:

His (Buehrle's) name was chanted in unison after the top of the eighth and again in the ninth.... The crowd also gave Buehrle two standing ovations, making the affable left-hander an unofficial American League leader in that particular category."Usually in these things, whatever the exterior people around it, whatever you know, it's probably behind a couple of days," said Konerko... "I'm like everyone else, just hoping. We don't want to see him go anywhere. Personally, for me, it would be tough...."

"You know, we have him," Konerko added. "And I say don't let him go."I'm with Paulie- DON'T LET BUEHRLE GO!!!!

oeo
07-08-2007, 12:27 AM
I'm not on Williams' side on this issue in general, but doesn't a $17 million option effectively create a NTC, by making him untradeable?

Yes...the Sox would likely have to pay a good portion of that 17 million if they were to trade him. This really doesn't fix anything from the Sox perspective...they don't want to be handcuffed, this still handcuffs them.

wealz07
07-08-2007, 12:28 AM
MB has done everything but beg the White Sox to sign him. He has made concessions that he doesn't need to make. He is the face of the franchise and JR and KW are basically telling him don't let the door hit you in the ass. :angry:

That's okay. As a Sox fan, I want the team to get a financial deal that that it is comfortable with. Anything less is a quick fix PR deal and not the way to run a baseball team.

DoItForDanPasqua
07-08-2007, 12:29 AM
I fear that we are doomed to a series of previously hurt players that the Sox can sign for cheap in hopes that they will return to past glory.

It's Time
07-08-2007, 12:30 AM
That's okay. As a Sox fan, I want the team to get a financial deal that that it is comfortable with. Anything less is a quick fix PR deal and not the way to run a baseball team.



:o::o::o:

FJA
07-08-2007, 12:30 AM
How'd that Jose Contreras extension work out. You know the one where Jose had turned the corner? That was met with open arms as I recall and he actually pitched well for a bit. That was also for roughly half of what Buehrle's asking for.

First of all, I don't think anyone would fault Kenny for the Contreras extension. Jose earned it during the second half of 2005, and we're paying him around what he would have made on the market, if not even less. Perhaps the Sox thought they were outsmarting everyone by getting a $25 million dollar pitcher for $10 million dollars a year, but I (probably along with most others), thought we were getting an average-to-above-average pitcher at an average price. Jose's had some real stinkers this year, but for the most part, we got an average pitcher for an average price. It would be nice not to be stuck with Jose's contract, but **** happens.

Second of all, just because the 60-year old Contreras started to suck, the 28-year old Buehrle is going to start to suck? Even if he does (highly unlikely, IMO), I don't think Sox fans will fault the Sox for giving Buehrle a contract that is well below what he could get from another team. Contracts don't need to be one size fits all.

DoItForDanPasqua
07-08-2007, 12:31 AM
That's okay. As a Sox fan, I want the team to get a financial deal that that it is comfortable with. Anything less is a quick fix PR deal and not the way to run a baseball team.

Buerhle is popular because he is a good pitcher. He is offering the Sox a bargain, and they should jump at it before he changes his mind.

KRS1
07-08-2007, 12:32 AM
Yes, it would. Any team the White Sox would trade with would absolutely tell the Sox to foot most of that bill. Still, the Sox are digging themselves a terrible hole, not only on the field, but in the PR department as well.

They had better sign him.

No, it wouldnt. This is a statement based on assumption. There's way too many scenarios to say we would have to pay most of, or any, of the 17M if we trade him. If he gets injured in year three, we could either rehab him, or trade him to a team willing to take a risk on him. If we keep him and go the rehab route, it's only 14M we owe him. If we trade him, there is no way of saying how much we were responsible for, but I can make a pretty good guess in saying there is no way we would ever pay more than, or even close to half of that salary. I forgot that some people here like to make things out as a matter of fact though, so I guess if we ever traded Mark we would "absolutely" foot most of that bill, because a someone here said so.

JB98
07-08-2007, 12:35 AM
You can't really compare Buehrle's career with Contreras. Buehrle has what 6.5/7 good years with the Sox whereas Contreras had a good .5 year going into that contract? Not to mention Buehrle is at least 5 years younger than him?

Buehrle is seven years younger, if you believe the press guide when it says that Contreras is 35. I'm pretty certain Mark really is 28.

Corlose 15
07-08-2007, 12:36 AM
Yes...the Sox would likely have to pay a good portion of that 17 million if they were to trade him. This really doesn't fix anything from the Sox perspective...they don't want to be handcuffed, this still handcuffs them.

If the Sox consider themselves "handcuffed" for 14M a year for the type of pitcher that Buehrle is that it just shows how cheap they really are being here.

And why would they be asked to foot the majority of the bill for 17M? You don't know what the market will be at in 2012 and its only 3M more than the team would have to pay him over the other years in the deal.

It's Time
07-08-2007, 12:38 AM
Buster Olney says: "It's incredible that the White Sox haven't gotten this deal done". BBTN is absolutely hammering the Sox right now. :gulp:

HotelWhiteSox
07-08-2007, 12:39 AM
BBTN ripping the Sox front office to shreds

JB98
07-08-2007, 12:40 AM
Buerhle is popular because he is a good pitcher. He is offering the Sox a bargain, and they should jump at it before he changes his mind.

Mark is a winner. That's the bottom line. People can argue about whether he's an "ace" or whatnot until they are blue in the face.

But if I had to describe Buehrle is one word, it would be "winner." We have a chance to win every goddamn time he pitches. This club is 11-6 in his 17 starts, 27-41 with everyone else. That's not a coincidence.

I just can't believe the organization thinks they can replace this man with Gavin Floyd and be a legit contender in the division over the next two or three years.

To me, it isn't about PR or being a fan favorite. It's about winning. We can win next year if Buehrle is still in our rotation. If not, it's time for "The Kids Can Play," The Sequel, I guess.

It's Time
07-08-2007, 12:41 AM
BBTN ripping the Sox front office to shreds

Yep, Can anyone say Greg Maddux? The PR nightmare has begun.

KRS1
07-08-2007, 12:41 AM
Buster Olney says: "It's incredible that the White Sox haven't gotten this deal done". BBTN is absolutely hammering the Sox right now. :gulp:


Why this is something to drink to I'll never know. I also seem to remember BBTN ripping us for not making a trade for AJ Burnett before the 05' deadline, and how our chances to put ourselves over the top had just been ruined.

JB98
07-08-2007, 12:42 AM
If the Sox consider themselves "handcuffed" for 14M a year for the type of pitcher that Buehrle is that it just shows how cheap they really are being here.

And why would they be asked to foot the majority of the bill for 17M? You don't know what the market will be at in 2012 and its only 3M more than the team would have to pay him over the other years in the deal.

I fear the Sox will soon find themselves "handcuffed" by a poor starting rotation, continued losing and sagging attendance if they don't resign their best starting pitcher.

Hitmen77
07-08-2007, 12:42 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2929267

Apparently, Buehrle offered to sign if a stipulation was added that he makes 17 million on a fifth year if traded...

WHAT THE **** KENNY? SIGN THE GOD DAMNED PAPERS. THAT IS A GREAT ****ING DEAL FOR A PITCHER THAT IS YOUNG, TALENTED, PROVEN, DURABLE, AND LEFT HANDED.

4 years, 56 million (14/yr), with a 5th year for 17 million if traded. Great deal. But no, that's not enough flexibility for you. Gavin Floyd or Gio is going to be a better option for the next 5 years....

The longer this goes on, the more of a PR fiasco this is going to become for the Sox. It sounds like his side is making the reasonable concessions and the Sox are just rebuffing him. To make matters worse, Mark has said he won't sign an extension with any team he is traded to - drastically cutting his trade value for the Sox.


It's starting to sound like the Sox just don't want Buehrle on the team. This is insane - it is very improbable that we'll find a pitcher that is 1/2 as good as Mark Buehrle if we let him go.

But, on the bright side, at least we won't be handcuffed to him! Oh wait, he's willing to bend on the NTC if he gets bumped to near market value. Forget get it!!! We only want a pitcher like Mark Buehrle so that we can trade his ass away with a below market contract!

Wasn't it the Sox philosophy that pitching and defense wins championships. I guess that was either total bull****, or the Sox aren't interested in winning championships anymore.

HotelWhiteSox
07-08-2007, 12:42 AM
Mark is a winner. That's the bottom line. People can argue about whether he's an "ace" or whatnot until they are blue in the face.

But if I had to describe Buehrle is one word, it would be "winner." We have a chance to win every goddamn time he pitches. This club is 11-6 in his 17 starts, 27-41 with everyone else. That's not a coincidence.

I just can't believe the organization thinks they can replace this man with Gavin Floyd and be a legit contender in the division over the next two or three years.

To me, it isn't about PR or being a fan favorite. It's about winning. We can win next year if Buehrle is still in our rotation. If not, it's time for "The Kids Can Play," The Sequel, I guess.

And those numbers should be better but the pen had some ridiculous blowups (at least2 specifically come to mind)

DoItForDanPasqua
07-08-2007, 12:44 AM
I fear the Sox will soon find themselves "handcuffed" by a poor starting rotation, continued losing and sagging attendance if they don't resign their best starting pitcher.

Yes, and handcuffed with about 90 losses per year, but hey, Gavin Floyd makes the league minimum.

Dan the Man
07-08-2007, 12:44 AM
BBTN ripping the Sox front office to shreds
As they should. They are making themselves look cheap beyond belief to the MLB. Why would any big name free agent want to sign with a team who wouldn't even give their homegrown, left-handed ace a contract when he was willing to take a discount?

It's Time
07-08-2007, 12:44 AM
Why this is something to drink to I'll never know. I also seem to remember BBTN ripping us for not making a trade for AJ Burnett before the 05' deadline, and how our chances to put ourselves over the top had just been ruined.

Why? It's called being called out by the national media. If anything, it wakes JR and KW up and makes them realize exactly what will happen if Buehrle is shown the door. Sorry, you can't defend JR and KW right now.

If you do, you'll be alone on that island.

nccwsfan
07-08-2007, 12:45 AM
How many franchises, if given this same scenario, would not jump on this offer by Buehrle's camp? It's crazy to think that this isn't done yet.

fusillirob1983
07-08-2007, 12:46 AM
Parts of this article (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/gameday_recap.jsp?ymd=20070707&content_id=2073173&vkey=recap&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws) from whitesox.com make me want to :whiner:. Here are a couple examples:

I'm with Paulie- DON'T LET BUEHRLE GO!!!!

Last I read a couple weeks back Konerko was in some sort of advisory role to Kenny about trading players. I wonder if he still has that position.

It's good to hear Konerko pulling for him though.


Being serious though, I was talking to my brother about this yesterday. If Mark didn't have a NTC in 2009, what exactly would we get for him that's better than a top of the line starter?

I hope the answer wouldn't be prospects. I don't think any cheap position players with only a couple years under their belt would be had just for Mark. Having him available for trade in 2009 makes it seem like we'd still be in a rebuilding mode at that point.

DoItForDanPasqua
07-08-2007, 12:47 AM
How many franchises, if given this same scenario, would not jump on this offer by Buehrle's camp? It's crazy to think that this isn't done yet.

Those that play in small markets and those that don't want to win if it's going to cost them. Guess which category the Sox are in.

wealz07
07-08-2007, 12:47 AM
First of all, I don't think anyone would fault Kenny for the Contreras extension. Jose earned it during the second half of 2005, and we're paying him around what he would have made on the market, if not even less. Perhaps the Sox thought they were outsmarting everyone by getting a $25 million dollar pitcher for $10 million dollars a year, but I (probably along with most others), thought we were getting an average-to-above-average pitcher at an average price. Jose's had some real stinkers this year, but for the most part, we got an average pitcher for an average price. It would be nice not to be stuck with Jose's contract, but **** happens.

Second of all, just because the 60-year old Contreras started to suck, the 28-year old Buehrle is going to start to suck? Even if he does (highly unlikely, IMO), I don't think Sox fans will fault the Sox for giving Buehrle a contract that is well below what he could get from another team. Contracts don't need to be one size fits all.

**** happens? Because of that contract, Contreras will be in the rotation for the next 2.5 years barring a trade. He's pretty bad, but hey **** happens, right? The last thing the Sox should do is lock up another spot in their rotation, this time for 4 years.

Hitmen77
07-08-2007, 12:49 AM
Exactly.

Certainly sounds like a reasonable and viable solution to me, especially since no one knows what the market is going to be 5 years from now.

Looks like Kenny has painted himself into a corner. No one is going to buy the 'we tried' routine anymore, at least not in this case.

Agreed. I'm beginning to think they've wanted Buehrle gone all along and really hadn't counted on his eagerness to stay with the Sox to blow their cover.

Buehrle is offering them a great deal. Even with the option, this is well below market value. Maybe if he offers to wash JR's car every Sunday for the length of the contract they will take this deal.

I just can't believe how far this team has sunk. Just last year they were talking dynasty; I didn't know they meant the 80's TV show.

Nope, this won't work. It handcuffs the Sox into car washes only on Sunday. What if it's rains on Monday? Then JR has to wait a whole 6 days for another wash. Thanks, but no thanks.

All these people vilifying KW and JR. It's easy to do when all you have to think with is your heart and it isn't your money on the line.

Yeah, yeah, yeah... I know... it IS your money. So go ahead and vote with your wallet.

Many, many Sox fans are going to do exactly that.

Yes...the Sox would likely have to pay a good portion of that 17 million if they were to trade him. This really doesn't fix anything from the Sox perspective...they don't want to be handcuffed, this still handcuffs them.
Because heaven knows we do not want the Sox to be "handcuffed" to a player like Mark Buehrle.

KRS1
07-08-2007, 12:50 AM
Why? It's called being called out by the national media. If anything, it wakes JR and KW up and makes them realize exactly what will happen if Buehrle is shown the door. Sorry, you can't defend JR and KW right now.

If you do, you'll be alone on that island.

I HIGHLY doubt JR and KW give two craps about what the so-called pundits at BBTN have to say about them.

Did, I sit here and try to defend KW and JR? Perhaps you need to re-read the posts I have in this thread. I just stated some facts about the contract, and made some comments on people believing that their opinions of what will happen in the future are facts. My comment about BBTN being proven wrong before by this organization (KW in particular)stands.

fusillirob1983
07-08-2007, 12:50 AM
How many franchises, if given this same scenario, would not jump on this offer by Buehrle's camp? It's crazy to think that this isn't done yet.

Florida is the only team that comes to mind, maybe the A's too.

The Royals would probably make this deal.

wsox3500
07-08-2007, 12:50 AM
I'm beginning to wonder whether Buehrle ever
even had a chance of being extended/resigned?!

I have a weird feeling that KW's two-three year plan (to the extent that there is one) was made without the prospect of having Buehrle included.

ChiSoxGirl
07-08-2007, 12:51 AM
The longer this goes on, the more of a PR fiasco this is going to become for the Sox. It sounds like his side is making the reasonable concessions and the Sox are just rebuffing him. To make matters worse, Mark has said he won't sign an extension with any team he is traded to - drastically cutting his trade value for the Sox.


It's starting to sound like the Sox just don't want Buehrle on the team. This is insane - it is very improbable that we'll find a pitcher that is 1/2 as good as Mark Buehrle if we let him go.

But, on the bright side, at least we won't be handcuffed to him! Oh wait, he's willing to bend on the NTC if he gets bumped to near market value. Forget get it!!! We only want a pitcher like market Buehrle so that we can trade his ass away with a below market contract!

Wasn't it the Sox philosophy that pitching and defense wins championships. I guess that was either total bull****, or the Sox aren't interested in winning championships anymore.

Agreed 1000% with everything you said, especially with what I've bolded.

I'm completely sick over this whole situation. This guy is the cornerstone of our club and pitching staff. It just doesn't make any sense to me. Mark is all but begging the Sox to sign him- from the hometown discount to the latest deal that says if he gets traded, there would be a $17 million option that would kick in- and they keep turning him down. How do you consciously turn your back on the guy who came up through your organization and has consistently dominated on the mound? :dunno: :whiner:

Hitmen77
07-08-2007, 12:53 AM
Buster Olney says: "It's incredible that the White Sox haven't gotten this deal done". BBTN is absolutely hammering the Sox right now.

BBTN ripping the Sox front office to shreds

I thought I'd never say this, but good for BBTN. :o: They are actually representing what most Sox fans are thinking right now.

It's Time
07-08-2007, 12:55 AM
I HIGHLY doubt JR and KW give two craps what the so-called pundits at BBTN have to say about them.

Really? Ok, how about the fan backlash? BBTN will be considered tame compared to what the fans are going to say. And when I say "you" can't defend JR and KW, it's a generalization.

And I'll bet they care what BBTN has to say, Heck, they care about what Jay ****ing Mariotti has to say and he hasn't a clue.

TornLabrum
07-08-2007, 12:56 AM
I have an explanation for all of this that I cover in my next column (which will probably be posted tomorrow evening).

I figure:

1) Prof. Chaos has kidnapped Kenny Williams and is back at the helm as GM.

2) Prof. Chaos decided after Buehrle's bad second half last year that he had to go.

3) Prof. Chaos is the victim of Jerry Krause syndrome: "Players don't win championships. Organizations win championships."

JB98
07-08-2007, 12:58 AM
Because heaven knows we do not want the Sox to be "handcuffed" to a player like Mark Buehrle.

Well, Buehrle does have a habit of "handcuffing" people. Take the Minnesota Twins for example. They scored 32 runs yesterday against just about every other pitcher on our team.

Today, they scored zero runs against Buehrle. "Handcuffed" indeed. :rolleyes:

JB98
07-08-2007, 01:00 AM
Really? Ok, how about the fan backlash? BBTN will be considered tame compared to what the fans are going to say. And when I say "you" can't defend JR and KW, it's a generalization.

And I'll bet they care what BBTN has to say, Heck, they care about what Jay ****ing Mariotti has to say and he hasn't a clue.

If Buehrle is dealt, it's open season on KW at Sox Fest. That should be rich.

Dan the Man
07-08-2007, 01:00 AM
As if anyone cares, all 3 "analysts" on BBTN just said Mark Buehrle's situation the most important thing.

KRS1
07-08-2007, 01:00 AM
And I'll bet they care what BBTN has to say, Heck, they care about what Jay ****ing Mariotti has to say and he hasn't a clue.

Yeah, they REALLY care about what he says. The only time he has really mattered, or given grief to the minds of the organization was after Ozzie made a particularly offensive comment about him. I am going to state my opinion as a fact here, they dont care what Buster or any of those guys say on ESPN.

Sure they care about the fans, we are the ones who put money in their pockets, did I try to make that argument? You really have a knack for twisting peoples words and going off on a completely different tangent.

It's Time
07-08-2007, 01:03 AM
Sure they care about the fans, we are the ones who put money in their pockets, did I try to make that argument?


Did I say you did?

soxfanreggie
07-08-2007, 01:04 AM
After reading that article and all MB has done to try to get this deal to work (can't expect him to take a big hometown discount without giving him some security), this has made me sick to my stomach. You know what I hear a lot of...how people are supposed to be Sox fans, not MB fans. Well right now, I'm a Sox fan, but I don't know if KW/JR are high on my list right now. Yes, they led us to a WS in '05, but losing a pitcher like MB and showing FAs that we suck at making deals does not bode well for winning more in the near future.

JB98
07-08-2007, 01:04 AM
I have an explanation for all of this that I cover in my next column (which will probably be posted tomorrow evening).

I figure:

1) Prof. Chaos has kidnapped Kenny Williams and is back at the helm as GM.

2) Prof. Chaos decided after Buehrle's bad second half last year that he had to go.

3) Prof. Chaos is the victim of Jerry Krause syndrome: "Players don't win championships. Organizations win championships."

I've often wondered whether KW wants to "prove" his genius by doing a complete overhaul of the pitching staff, instead of just sticking with the guys who made him a World Series winning GM in the first place.

Yeah, I understand change is necessary, and you can't stay in the same place. That's why he traded Freddy. That's why Contreras needs to go.

But Buehrle and Garland are in their primes and proven. There are no legitimate baseball reasons not to rebuild the rotation around these two.

FJA
07-08-2007, 01:06 AM
**** happens? Because of that contract, Contreras will be in the rotation for the next 2.5 years barring a trade. He's pretty bad, but hey **** happens, right? The last thing the Sox should do is lock up another spot in their rotation, this time for 4 years.

If you expect every player's contract to play out exactly as planned or better than planned, I'd venture a guess you haven't watched much sports, let alone baseball. I remember Jamie Navarro too, and I don't expect that (a far worse disaster) to stop the Sox from signing Buehrle either.

I was satisfied with the Contreras extension at the time and - gasp - am not ashamed to admit it. Also, for what we're paying him and looking around the league to comparative players and their contracts, it's not like it's a total loss.

I would also hope that Jerry Reinsdorf employs smart enough baseball men to know what to do when an underachieving starter has 2.5 years left on his contract. It's not like we're the first team that has happened to. Should we just throw our hands in the air and trot out Gavin Floyd every fifth day?

NorbertoMartin
07-08-2007, 01:07 AM
I'm beginning to wonder whether Buehrle ever
even had a chance of being extended/resigned?!

I have a weird feeling that KW's two-three year plan (to the extent that there is one) was made without the prospect of having Buehrle included.

Corlose 15
07-08-2007, 01:08 AM
I've often wondered whether KW wants to "prove" his genius by doing a complete overhaul of the pitching staff, instead of just sticking with the guys who made him a World Series winning GM in the first place.

Yeah, I understand change is necessary, and you can't stay in the same place. That's why he traded Freddy. That's why Contreras needs to go.

But Buehrle and Garland are in their primes and proven. There are no legitimate baseball reasons not to rebuild the rotation around these two.

Buehrle, Garland, Vazquez, Danks, and Floyd/Gio/Masset/Sisco/whoever is a very good and affordable rotation especially if Vazquez, Danks, and Floyd continue to develop.

DoItForDanPasqua
07-08-2007, 01:08 AM
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:EMqQKZtSpA68vM:http://www.blackathlete.com/Images/blackbox/kwilliams.jpg Gavin will you play for minimum wage and never ask for a no trade clause?

http://msn.foxsports.com/fe/img/MLB/Headshots/7297.jpg

Yes sir. I even plan on improving on my 7.08 career ERA.

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:EMqQKZtSpA68vM:http://www.blackathlete.com/Images/blackbox/kwilliams.jpg

Beat it Buerhle, we traded you for Fred Navarro, Jamie's brother.


http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:r9WEeOCW0e0bxM:http://assets.espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/65x90/6525.jpg

But....

Corlose 15
07-08-2007, 01:10 AM
Another thing that I don't get about this is that KW said the NTC would affect his ability to sign other FA's. Now that its off the table how is it compromising his ability so sign people? It would seem to me that the way they're waffling on this and basically jerking MB around would seem to be a bigger deterent to free agents than having to deal with a NTC issue. Especially for Garland.

JB98
07-08-2007, 01:12 AM
Buehrle, Garland, Vazquez, Danks, and Floyd/Gio/Masset/Sisco/whoever is a very good and affordable rotation especially if Vazquez, Danks, and Floyd continue to develop.

Vazquez is a veteran. What you see is what you get. For better or worse. I really like Danks. I think he's a keeper.

Floyd, Masset and Sisco all make me shudder. I'm hoping Gio is the answer, and I'm fearful the organization thinks Floyd is the real deal. I think Floyd is a poor man's Javy.

KRS1
07-08-2007, 01:14 AM
Did I say you did?


The point of my whole statement about you going off on a completely different tangent is in direct reference to what you said. First, we are talking about BBTN and what they said, as if it mattered to anyone on the organization, and next it's "Really? Ok, how about the fan backlash?". Was I ever arguing about what the fans have to say about this? No, so why would this be brought up? Just to bring up a new argument? How is this related to what I said? Because BBTN would "look tame" compared to us? IMO, our organization is well aware of how the fans will react to this whole situation, and quite frankly what Buster and the guys next to him say doesnt make them care any more about the situation at hand. ESPN doesnt matter.

It's Time
07-08-2007, 01:14 AM
They did this to Maggs as well. They got away with it because of his injury, but if Ordonez was healthy, they would have low balled him out of town, too.

They really handle fan favorites and excellent players well.

NorbertoMartin
07-08-2007, 01:15 AM
Vazquez is a veteran. What you see is what you get. For better or worse. I really like Danks. I think he's a keeper.

Floyd, Masset and Sisco all make me shudder. I'm hoping Gio is the answer, and I'm fearful the organization thinks Floyd is the real deal. I think Floyd is a poor man's Javy.

Well, pretty soon we'll get to see if Gavin can muster any kind of momentum going into next season.

He should have plenty of starts in the second half, which willl serve as an extended 2008 pre-spring training of sorts.

Hopefully, he can prove himself and earn a spot.

beckett21
07-08-2007, 01:17 AM
They did this to Maggs as well. They got away with it because of his injury, but if Ordonez was healthy, they would have low balled him out of town, too.

They really handle fan favorites and excellent players well.

I didn't have a problem with how they handled Maggs because he allegedly withheld medical information from the team. Although I hated to see Frank Thomas go, that one I could at least understand.

This one I would have a major problem with. It just makes no sense on any level whatsoever.

JB98
07-08-2007, 01:19 AM
Well, pretty soon we'll get to see if Gavin can muster any kind of momentum going into next season.

He should have plenty of starts in the second half, which willl serve as an extended 2008 pre-spring training of sorts.

Hopefully, he can prove himself and earn a spot.

Hopefully. If he does, I'll eat it. But right now, I see Floyd the same way I see Aardsma and Sisco:

Golden arms, 10-cent brains. Not winners.

It's Time
07-08-2007, 01:20 AM
doesnt make them care any more about the situation at hand. ESPN doesnt matter.

IMO, the White Sox care very much about it. Heck, Ozzie calls Mike ****ing North to chew him out. Mike ****ing North?

Back to the matter at hand, the White Sox are flipping off the face of the franchise. How, may I ask, do you feel about that?

KRS1
07-08-2007, 01:20 AM
They did this to Maggs as well. They got away with it because of his injury, but if Ordonez was healthy, they would have low balled him out of town, too.

They really handle fan favorites and excellent players well.

We offered Maggs a 5 year $60M deal beafore and after his injury, and he turned us down. It was a big risk after his knee injury and we still put it on the table, yet we were being cheap?

StillMissOzzie
07-08-2007, 01:21 AM
I heard Jeff Blansey's report on channel 7 news. Basically, Buehrle would agree to the deal only if the White Sox guaranteed 17M in the final year of the deal if he is not traded.

Yours is the only account that suggests that the $17M comes into play for the 5th year even if he is NOT traded.

I thought you could only get insurance on the first three years of a contract. Based on that, it makes sense to be cautious about big money contracts that go past that length as the team could end up eating all of the money. The Sox would already be on the hook for $14M should Buehrle suffer a catastrophic injury forcing his retirement. Add on a 5th year and it becomes $31M.

Others have already pointed out that the 5th year's $17M should be the burden of the team MB gets traded to. Of course, the Sox could end up eating some or all of that 5th year to facilitate such a trade, but again, any team that would be getting ANY years of MB at a home-town discount shouldn't be in a position to be whining abou financial aid for one year's worth.


Buster Olney says: "It's incredible that the White Sox haven't gotten this deal done". BBTN is absolutely hammering the Sox right now. :gulp:

BBTN ripping the Sox front office to shreds
The 11:00pm version of BBTN has been ripping them, too.

**** happens? Because of that contract, Contreras will be in the rotation for the next 2.5 years barring a trade. He's pretty bad, but hey **** happens, right? The last thing the Sox should do is lock up another spot in their rotation, this time for 4 years.
KW, get off of WSI and get back talking with MB's agent. Contreras has already offered to waive his NTC. Spots in the rotation are not etched in stone.

Florida is the only team that comes to mind, maybe the A's too.

The Royals would probably make this deal.
The Royals already DID give 5 yrs/$55M to the "immortal" Gil Meche, and I don't think anyone would compare Meche to MB. Four years of MB for the same $ as five years of Meche? I'd take the MB option in a heartbeat.

As if anyone cares, all 3 "analysts" on BBTN just said Mark Buehrle's situation the most important thing.

Actually, it was all four (3 ex-players + ESPN moderator), but who's counting?


KW and JR, take the deal!! Re-sign MB!!!

SMO
:mad:

ChiSoxGirl
07-08-2007, 01:24 AM
They did this to Maggs as well. They got away with it because of his injury, but if Ordonez was healthy, they would have low balled him out of town, too.

They really handle fan favorites and excellent players well.

Robin Ventura anyone?

ChiSox65
07-08-2007, 01:26 AM
They just hammered the Sox brass on the Buehrle deal saying "Get it done..." and comparing Buehrle's stats with Zito's and saying Zito got over $100 mil. This seems like the biggest no-brainer on the planet. If he's gone, he might buy Kenny a new Rolls when he signs his 8 year/ $135 Mil contract.

JB98
07-08-2007, 01:26 AM
You know, this thread has reached six pages in just about two hours. We're all spending our Saturday night being pissed off at the Sox front office. That's a sure sign the goodwill from 2005 is starting to erode.

And Chris Berman says us Sox fans aren't passionate. :D:

It's Time
07-08-2007, 01:29 AM
Robin Ventura anyone?

Number 72 ring a bell?

ChiSoxGirl
07-08-2007, 01:30 AM
Number 72 ring a bell?

He's another one; I forgot about him. I had my favorite player on the brain. :redface:

KRS1
07-08-2007, 01:31 AM
IMO, the White Sox care very much about it. Heck, Ozzie calls Mike ****ing North to chew him out. Mike ****ing North?

Back to the matter at hand, the White Sox are flipping off the face of the franchise. How, may I ask, do you feel about that?


Ozzie, is neither KW nor JR.

Is that what they are doing? I was pretty sure they have expressed nothing but the utmost respect for him through the media. Now because they are unsure and uneasy about specifics of a contract, that none of us have any intimate knowledge of, they are giving Mark the bird? That makes a lot of sense. I love Mark, and want him to be in a White Sox uni for the remainder of his career, but I just simply dont care to get mad either way right now, because I refuse to believe a single word about the negotiations that dont come out of the mouths of the VIP's (I guess I'll call them that) of this deal. Until Mark is not wearing our letters anymore across his chest, I just cant get myself worked up anymore over this situation. I am already on a ledge about the way the last 12 months have gone for the team as a whole.

nccwsfan
07-08-2007, 01:31 AM
You know, this thread has reached six pages in just about two hours. We're all spending our Saturday night being pissed off at the Sox front office. That's a sure sign the goodwill from 2005 is starting to erode.

And Chris Berman says us Sox fans aren't passionate. :D:

:club: :cuss: :thud: :raincloud:
Pretty much sums it up...

crazyozzie02
07-08-2007, 01:33 AM
You know, this thread has reached six pages in just about two hours. We're all spending our Saturday night being pissed off at the Sox front office. That's a sure sign the goodwill from 2005 is starting to erode.

And Chris Berman says us Sox fans aren't passionate. :D:

Its a well and good that they gave us a Championship in '05, and i will never be able to thank them enough. But it comes a time where we have to forget about that and look toward the future. Mark is a future i would love to root for. My ulcer is coming back becasue of this, and its all about a stupid NTC. '05 was then, but this is now. Resign Mark. Please.

Boondock Saint
07-08-2007, 01:33 AM
They just hammered the Sox brass on the Buehrle deal saying "Get it done..." and comparing Buehrle's stats with Zito's and saying Zito got over $100 mil. This seems like the biggest no-brainer on the planet. If he's gone, he might buy Kenny a new Rolls when he signs his 8 year/ $135 Mil contract.

Strange as it sounds, I totally agree with the ESPN guys on this one. Zito won a Cy Young a few years ago, but he isn't wearing a championship ring. Buehrle was the ace of a World Series champion pitching staff. But they got the part about the Rolls wrong. He'll send KW something to stick where the sun doesn't shine if he doesn't get a deal done. The man is worth much more money than he's willing to take, worth the NTC, and most of all, he deserves the faith of his general manager, dammit.

It's Time
07-08-2007, 01:36 AM
He's another one; I forgot about him. I had my favorite player on the brain. :redface:

:pudge

"How soon we forget"..


:wink:

ChiSoxGirl
07-08-2007, 01:37 AM
:pudge

"How soon we forget"..


:wink:

Cut me a little slack. :wink: My Sox fandom started in 1989, which was towards the end of his career. I was a fan throughout Ventura's entire career.

JB98
07-08-2007, 01:40 AM
Its a well and good that they gave us a Championship in '05, and i will never be able to thank them enough. But it comes a time where we have to forget about that and look toward the future. Mark is a future i would love to root for. My ulcer is coming back becasue of this, and its all about a stupid NTC. '05 was then, but this is now. Resign Mark. Please.

2005 is a cherished memory for us all, but ya know, I want to win in 2008. I realize 2007 is a lost cause.

I just can't see a return to the playoffs sometime in the next couple years without Buehrle. Quality starting pitching is so hard to find. That's why people overpay for the Gil Meches and Jason Marquis of the world. We're in a situation where all we have to do is retain our own, and we're refusing to do so. Very frustrating.

crazyozzie02
07-08-2007, 01:41 AM
2005 is a cherished memory for us all, but ya know, I want to win in 2008. I realize 2007 is a lost cause.

I just can't see a return to the playoffs sometime in the next couple years without Buehrle. Quality starting pitching is so hard to find. That's why people overpay for the Gil Meches and Jason Marquis of the world. We're in a situation where all we have to do is retain our own, and we're refusing to do so. Very frustrating.

exactly. I totally agree with you on this subject 100%.

getonbckthr
07-08-2007, 01:49 AM
Maybe the "unidentified sources" were right when they said the biggest weakness in Kenny Williams is his education at Stanford.

Bill Naharodny
07-08-2007, 02:26 AM
Hopefully. If he does, I'll eat it. But right now, I see Floyd the same way I see Aardsma and Sisco:

Golden arms, 10-cent brains. Not winners.

I believe that I once heard a term for these types of pitchers.

Wait . . . yes . . . ah . . . power arms! Eureka! Power arms!

By the way, I've been thinking about that 5th year at $17 million. Let's say the market stays where it is now (which it probably won't; most markets, in baseball and otherwise, go one way and it ain't down). But let's assume that the market stays the same. And let's assume that Buehrle's still good in the next couple of years, when the trade kicker would matter. In that case, it's true: the trade kicker of $17 million would dissuade many teams from trading for Buehrle. But any team dissuaded at $17 million likely is going to be dissuaded at $14 million, too. And any team not dissuaded at $14 million won't be dissuaded at $17 million. Basically, if he's still good, your large market teams could trade for him. Your small market teams couldn't. So, whether he signs (1) a deal at $14 million and without a no trade clause (which the White Sox say they want), or (2) the deal with the trade kicker (which Buehrle has allegedly offered), the effect is exactly the same: big market teams could deal for Buehrle. In other words, Buehrle's proposal gives the White Sox exactly what they say they want.

So, when you get right down to it, by adding the kicker, he's waiving his demand for a No Trade Clause. And, when you get right down to it, the White Sox don't care.

Lip Man 1
07-08-2007, 02:46 AM
Here's the latest on this issue from the Chicago Tribune. This is not the entire story.
----------

Buehrle, who had been optimistic, says now, "I would say it's a little more discouraging.

"Things kind of … were pulled off the table and kind of put back on the table."

Sox general manager Ken Williams, in an e-mail to a pool reporter, seemed baffled:

"I'm tired of the public nature of this. What did he say we took off the table? We've only added, not subtracted."

Obviously, the matter is confusing, but it could be nearing an end, and not necessarily for the good, at least for Sox fans.

In a statement released Saturday night, Berry said:

"Mark loves playing for the White Sox and has the utmost respect for everyone in the organization. In an effort to bridge the contractual impasse, we offered a sensible alternative to a full no-trade clause.

"Those final overtures were rejected and, at this point, Mark hopes for resolution prior to the start of the second half."

ESPN.com reported the rejected overture was a four-year, $56 million deal without a no-trade clause—but if Buehrle was traded, then a $17 million option for 2012 would kick in.

----------

I don't know what more to say, like Doc Beckett said it's hard to see any sense in this unless it's simply a battle of wills and ego's and that doesn't make sense either from a business or a baseball standpoint.

Lip

TornLabrum
07-08-2007, 03:09 AM
I don't know what more to say, like Doc Beckett said it's hard to see any sense in this unless it's simply a battle of wills and ego's and that doesn't make sense either from a business or a baseball standpoint.

Lip

That's why I subscribe to the kidnapping theory. It can't be Kenny Williams making these idiotic decisions. It has to be Prof. Chaos! :angry:

UserNameBlank
07-08-2007, 03:19 AM
I don't know what more to say, like Doc Beckett said it's hard to see any sense in this unless it's simply a battle of wills and ego's and that doesn't make sense either from a business or a baseball standpoint.

Lip
Agreed. *** are the Sox thinking here? To me it seems like either JR, KW, or both do not want to sign Buehrle and are not man enough to come right out and say it. Mark has made giant concessions to stay here. In today's sports world what he is doing is absolutely nuts. Mark has been healthy his entire career, but he could get injured in a couple years and his entire career could be ruined. The risk he is taking in accepting a 4 year deal for less money instead of a 6-7 year deal at a higher rate is quite a big risk. Now obviously it isn't like Mark is going to be starving anytime soon; he's loaded. But, he's still forfeiting millions of dollars and additional security in order to stay with this team. For the love of God, take Mark's offer as a blessing, quit ****ing talking about a "market correction" and being handcuffed and trying to field "championship teams" and sign your damn franchise pitcher.

This is just my opinion, but I think KW wants to rebuild this whole team from scratch. Here's the thing though: if the Sox let Mark walk I think they will receive more backlash from the fan base than they would if they traded every other member of the ballclub. Seriously, I think if they shipped off Garland, Konerko, Thome, Vazquez, and everyone else there would be at least a large minority of fans who would defend those moves as building for the future. Trading Mark or even letting him walk - especially after all these negotiations have been made public - would really, really, really piss off Sox fans. In the interest of the future of the team on the field and in the interest of the future image of the organization, give the man his stupid little NTC and shut the **** up about it already. Nobody feels sorry for a bunch of rich people who are whining about not being able to trade a player without his consent, especially those who come to the ballpark and pay for the contract.

santo=dorf
07-08-2007, 03:54 AM
:o::o::o:
It's no surprise with wealz. The bottom line of the Sox comes way before the success of the team itself. I'm glad he represents only a minority of the Sox fanbase.

103 screwball
07-08-2007, 04:00 AM
if the Sox let Mark walk I think they will receive more backlash from the fan base than they would if they traded every other member of the ballclub. Seriously, I think if they shipped off Garland, Konerko, Thome, Vazquez, and everyone else there would be at least a large minority of fans who would defend those moves as building for the future. Trading Mark or even letting him walk - especially after all these negotiations have been made public - would really, really, really piss off Sox fans. In the interest of the future of the team on the field and in the interest of the future image of the organization, give the man his stupid little NTC and shut the **** up about it already. Nobody feels sorry for a bunch of rich people who are whining about not being able to trade a player without his consent, especially those who come to the ballpark and pay for the contract.

Agreed. They know not what they do. They'd be much better off in the long run if they signing Mark and rebuilding around him by trading others like Garland. It appears the negotiations were only done to keep up his trade value and try to fool the fans. Backfired. They simply do not want Mark back and have been to cowardly or deceiving to say so. They can't spin this. The more spin, the more they look like jackasses.:angry:

Dan Mega
07-08-2007, 04:02 AM
"Those final overtures were rejected and, at this point, Mark hopes for resolution prior to the start of the second half."


Final as in being the end.

Folks, we have another Fisk/Ventura/Thomas case.

Nellie_Fox
07-08-2007, 04:04 AM
They simply do not want Mark back...Why would they not want him back? What are you basing this on? You might disagree with their business acumen, but if it makes sense to them, business-wise, to bring him back, they will. This is not a guy who has alienated management, so your contention that they don't want him back doesn't make sense.

WhiteSoxFan84
07-08-2007, 04:27 AM
I always used to think that Billy Beane was the most arrogant GM and viewed him as the biggest snob in baseball and I always respected Kenny Williams. But of those opinions have now changed... JR and KW are about to lose the fandom that the 2005 team brought back. It's sad. Very sad.

The only way I agree with trading Buehrle, as I said before, is if they used that $14 mill on signing Ichiro.
Or bringing in A-Rod.

Domeshot17
07-08-2007, 04:29 AM
The only thing that possibly makes sense is Kenny weighing if the Sox are better with Buehrle or with the 2 prospects he either brings in a trade or as type A compensation plus the 14 mil we can spend in free agency.

santo=dorf
07-08-2007, 04:35 AM
Why would they not want him back? What are you basing this on? You might disagree with their business acumen, but if it makes sense to them, business-wise, to bring him back, they will. This is not a guy who has alienated management, so your contention that they don't want him back doesn't make sense.
In your opinion do you think signing Mark Buehrle to a 4/56 deal with a NTC is a good business decision? How about a 4/56 deal with a $17 million option if he is traded even with a limited NTC?
I think a majority of Sox fans think these two deals make sense business wise, so it is odd that management has not officially signed him.

103 screwball
07-08-2007, 04:53 AM
Why would they not want him back? What are you basing this on? You might disagree with their business acumen, but if it makes sense to them, business-wise, to bring him back, they will. This is not a guy who has alienated management, so your contention that they don't want him back doesn't make sense.

Do they want him back cheap? Sure. Were the negotiations genuine? Doesn't look like it.

Sox say free agent pitching market too expensive...so Mark offers a below market discount.

Sox say long term pitching deals are too risky...so Mark does not demand a 6 or even 5 year deal that he could get easily elsewhere.

Sox say no NTC, surely that will end this without the Sox looking too badly...so Mark gives again by offering a deal without a NTC that has an incentive that the Sox would never be obligated to pay.

Mark was not in the plans. This has been a song an dance to play the fans for fools. If the Sox don't want to spend 14 million on one guy, have the balls to just say so. Fire the scouts and rebuild the farm if they want to be the A's/Marlins/Braves/Twins. Mark and the fans deserve better. Gee guys we tried to sign Buehrle ....:angry: If this doesn't make sense to them business wise, why are people so shocked that the Sox are turning down this no brainer. I think the Sox are pissed at him for letting the truth out. The Sox handled this extremely poorly. Now I predict they will say all the right things about it being hard to lose him and how much he meant and then they will find a way to make him look bad. Don't fall for the spin.

I think the Sox suck this year because they see through their management's BS. Once you figure out the management's crap, you go through the motions, collect your check, and look at the want adds. This season needs to be flushed, plunged, and flushed again.

Flight #24
07-08-2007, 07:15 AM
This is disgusting, deplorable, and whatever other word Phil Rogers wants to throw out there. It's not even cheap, timid and stupid - it's just timid and stupid because Mark's made sure that he'll stay cheap.

As a reference point, if you take Mark's proposed $17M salary for 2012 and just use 3% inflation to bring it back to 2007, it's equivalent to an extra year at $14.66M. So even forgetting potential salary inflation and just using standard economic inflation, it's almost certain to be a reasonable salary for a guy of Mark's caliber.

With this deal, he'd be tradeable as a 4/$59 guy. I.e. the team acquiring him would do so at less than $15M/yr and on a 4-year deal. That's not something most teams in baseball worry about. So even if the Sox DON'T want Mark, this is a bad deal to turn down because if anything it makes him MORE attractive than the earlier one. The only potential way it makes sense to turn this down is if there's not only going to be a market correction, but a significant one - because even a slight market correction is going to only leave this a market-rate deal.

This confirms to me that Kenny never really wanted to resign Mark. How in the world can you not want to resign a guy who's this good, this good of a guy, and this desperate to stay?:angry::angry::angry::angry::(:

Flight #24
07-08-2007, 07:16 AM
I think the Sox suck this year because they see through their management's BS. Once you figure out the management's crap, you go through the motions, collect your check, and look at the want adds. This season needs to be flushed, plunged, and flushed again.

Yeah, Kenny' sure followed through on that "chemistry" and "team first" attitude he preaches by slapping the face of the franchise across the face a few times and kicking him in the ass as he tried to stay.

fusillirob1983
07-08-2007, 07:49 AM
The Royals already DID give 5 yrs/$55M to the "immortal" Gil Meche, and I don't think anyone would compare Meche to MB. Four years of MB for the same $ as five years of Meche? I'd take the MB option in a heartbeat.




Exactly my thought process. It just goes to show how bad this season is as the Royals pop up in conversations more and more.

UserNameBlank
07-08-2007, 09:28 AM
Do they want him back cheap? Sure. Were the negotiations genuine? Doesn't look like it.

Sox say free agent pitching market too expensive...so Mark offers a below market discount.

Sox say long term pitching deals are too risky...so Mark does not demand a 6 or even 5 year deal that he could get easily elsewhere.

Sox say no NTC, surely that will end this without the Sox looking too badly...so Mark gives again by offering a deal without a NTC that has an incentive that the Sox would never be obligated to pay.

Yeah, Kenny' sure followed through on that "chemistry" and "team first" attitude he preaches by slapping the face of the franchise across the face a few times and kicking him in the ass as he tried to stay.

Totally agree with both of you. This whole thing is just making me sick as a fan. Reading these reports I get the same feeling I get when someone dies. It was one thing with Maggs (the injury fiasco), another with Thomas (injuries, Thome acquistion), but Buehrle has never had injury problems, has never been reported as a bad teammate, has never said stupid **** in the papers, and is willing to take far less than what he is worth on the market to stay. Besides, it's not like he's being replaced with anyone better! If he's traded, there is about a 90% chance Gavin Floyd takes his spot. Gavin ****ing Floyd!

I've defended KW forever on here but if Buehrle isn't re-signed and he is the reason why, he needs to get his ninja ass out of here and go back to Acme Ninja Training academy because he is damn sure not ninja enough to run a baseball team.

This whole thing is stupid, stupid, stupid.

WSox597
07-08-2007, 09:30 AM
Today's Sun-Times is talking about MB backing off on the NTC and suggesting an incentive plan if he's traded.

The Sox have turned this down per the article. There's a shock. This is sickening if it turns out this way.

The sports headline says MB is quoted as saying 50-50 whether he signs with the Sox. Konerko is quoted as saying sign Mark. Almost all of the fans want him signed, except for a few diehard Vazquez fanboys here.

It's hard to visualize why Williams and Reinsdorf would do this to a fan favorite who can flatout pitch. For prospects? Prospects??!

Joe Borchard was a prospect. Everytime I hear the word prospect bandied about I get sick to my stomach. So, if this goes down like this, the team is going to get raked over the coals by Williams and Reinsdorf and their "principles". (oxymoron alert here)

This will make 2005 look like more of a fluke than it appears to be now.

If I was Mark Buehrle I would take the money and run from whatever team wants him. There is obviously zero loyalty from the Sox organization, with any player. Oh, except Vazquez. Let's give a guy who is below .500 for his entire career a three-year extension. He's got STUFF! He's another golden arm with a 10-cent brain. Now that the pressure's off he's Cy ****ing Young.

Way to go, Reinsdorf and company. Win a championship and then piss it all away within two years. Great PR staff you got going there. Here comes "These kids can PLAY!" part two of a continuing series. Only this time, the 'kids' in the minors suck.

Ah, but they work CHEAP, and that's the ticket. And next year, when the Sox are busting through the cellar floor, I'll bet those tickets won't be cheap. Easier to get, most likely, but not any cheaper.

wealz07
07-08-2007, 10:39 AM
Why would they not want him back? What are you basing this on? You might disagree with their business acumen, but if it makes sense to them, business-wise, to bring him back, they will. This is not a guy who has alienated management, so your contention that they don't want him back doesn't make sense.

Maybe they don't want him back because they don't think he'll be worth $56M over the next 4 years. Maybe they believe either his performance will slip significantly or the team they have around him won't be good enough to win even if he pitches well. It's really that simple they just can't say it for obvious reasons.

Tragg
07-08-2007, 10:40 AM
First of all, I don't think anyone would fault Kenny for the Contreras extension. Jose earned it during the second half of 2005, and we're paying him around what he would have made on the market, if not even less.
Kenny also shopped Contreras before extending him.

Someone made a good point above that, after a reasonable adjustment for inflation, the $17 mill is basically the same $14 mill. It's flimsy, no doubt. BUT if the sox won't budge on a ntc, I wouldn't think they'd go for the extra year $17 mill bonus.
Agreed. I'm beginning to think they've wanted Buehrle gone all along and really hadn't counted on his eagerness to stay with the Sox to blow their cover.
I also think that they over-estimated the equity that they had built up with the fans for winning a WS.

Maybe they don't want him back because they don't think he'll be worth $56M over the next 4 years. Maybe they believe either his performance will slip significantly or the team they have around him won't be good enough to win even if he pitches well. It's really that simple they just can't say it for obvious reasons.
Considering they extended Contreras and considering MB's age, injury history (none) and consistency with the Sox, it's just hard to believe that that is their evaluation.

Hitmen77
07-08-2007, 11:11 AM
No, it wouldnt. This is a statement based on assumption. There's way too many scenarios to say we would have to pay most of, or any, of the 17M if we trade him. If he gets injured in year three, we could either rehab him, or trade him to a team willing to take a risk on him. If we keep him and go the rehab route, it's only 14M we owe him. If we trade him, there is no way of saying how much we were responsible for, but I can make a pretty good guess in saying there is no way we would ever pay more than, or even close to half of that salary. I forgot that some people here like to make things out as a matter of fact though, so I guess if we ever traded Mark we would "absolutely" foot most of that bill, because a someone here said so.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Mark will become a 5/10 player in 2010. Therefore he'll automatically get a no trade clause for the last 2 years of his contract.

If this deal got hung up on Mark's insistence on a NTC, then it must be a NTC for the first 2 years only since no "clause" is necessary for years 3 and 4. That means that the Sox are seriously considering a scenario of trading him in year 1 or 2 of his deal and are willing to walk away from this deal over not being able to trade him that soon.

veeter
07-08-2007, 11:15 AM
This thing has just become an ego thing for Kenny and JR. Their stubborness is going to cost them dearly.

Hitmen77
07-08-2007, 11:15 AM
Why would they not want him back? What are you basing this on? You might disagree with their business acumen, but if it makes sense to them, business-wise, to bring him back, they will. This is not a guy who has alienated management, so your contention that they don't want him back doesn't make sense.

Seems like EVERYONE outside the White Sox management chain is disagreeing with their "acumen". According to almost everyone else, it does make sense business-wise to bring him back for this amount of money.

This is what is puzzling to me - the Sox position on this makes no sense....so much so that "they don't want him back" seems to be as plausible explanation as any.

RowanDye
07-08-2007, 11:25 AM
Oh, except Vazquez. Let's give a guy who is below .500 for his entire career a three-year extension. He's got STUFF! He's another golden arm with a 10-cent brain.

:?: This "10-cent brain" **** is ridiculous. I realize you're upset, but the last time I checked Mark Buehrle didn't pitch too well last year either.

Does he also have a "10-cent brain" that only works when the pressure is off?

*****!

ChiSoxlukes
07-08-2007, 11:27 AM
Has anyone considered that maybe Mark is being the unreasonable one? Why is he so hung up on a no trade clause? IMO the Sox offer is very fair, 4 year 56 mil with all but 18 months non tradeable. If Mark wants a full no trade clause then the deal should drop down to 4 year 48-50 mil which is still very fair. I don't know. By adding the 5th year player option worth 17 mil, this basically is a no trade clause since most teams except for the Yankees or Red Sox will accept that for a guy who will be 33 and thus is an unfair offer by Mark. Maybe Mark isn't the good guy here??? JR and KW have to do what is best for the future of the team.

Vernam
07-08-2007, 11:27 AM
This thing has just become an ego thing for Kenny and JR. Their stubborness is going to cost them dearly.I'm afraid that's right on the money. The more people say they're making an epic mistake, the more KW wants to prove them wrong. It's like he and JR are intent on living up to the worst that their detractors have ever said about them over the years.

The only defense for this is if KW has used the past two weeks to explore every possible trade option, to see just what they'll be missing if they don't trade Buehrle. That would actually be a prudent thing to do. But there have been no such rumors, no indication they're doing anything but jerk around the team's most popular player due to a.) adherence to some phony internal rules about NTC's, and/or b.) a self-destructive need to "win" every contract negotiation.

If Buehrle caves in now and accepts the earlier offer of 4/$56 and no NTC, have the Sox "won?"

Vernam

ChiSoxlukes
07-08-2007, 11:29 AM
This thing has just become an ego thing for Kenny and JR. Their stubborness is going to cost them dearly.

Maybe it also has become an ego thing for Mark as well. It is a power struggle from both sides. It takes two to tango.

wealz07
07-08-2007, 11:31 AM
This is what is puzzling to me - the Sox position on this makes no sense....so much so that "they don't want him back" seems to be as plausible explanation as any.

If the Sox can't get Buehrle on their terms, I don't want them to sign him.

santo=dorf
07-08-2007, 11:43 AM
Maybe it also has become an ego thing for Mark as well. It is a power struggle from both sides. It takes two to tango.
Why? Because he's taking less money to make the deal work?
Because he's willing to take back a full NTC, something KW would't budge over?

Doesn't sound like Mark is having some ego issues.
If the Sox can't get Buehrle on their terms, I don't want them to sign him.
I find this funny considering how anti-KW you were (are?) You always disagreed with his moves and decisions yet I don't recall you ever saying you didn't have a problem with the player acquired because he was on the same page as KW and JR.

Management isn't always right. Shocking, I know.

RowanDye
07-08-2007, 11:52 AM
Has anyone considered that maybe Mark is being the unreasonable one? Why is he so hung up on a no trade clause? IMO the Sox offer is very fair, 4 year 56 mil with all but 18 months non tradeable. If Mark wants a full no trade clause then the deal should drop down to 4 year 48-50 mil which is still very fair. I don't know. By adding the 5th year player option worth 17 mil, this basically is a no trade clause since most teams except for the Yankees or Red Sox will accept that for a guy who will be 33 and thus is an unfair offer by Mark. Maybe Mark isn't the good guy here??? JR and KW have to do what is best for the future of the team.


I don't know about Mark being unreasonable, but you have to keep in mind that Mark's agent has been doing most of the talking to the media.

So far he has used the media very well to potentially spin his side of the story.

KW has said very little except in response to reports, and I wish he would have just taken a "no comment" stance from the very beginning.

Everyone loves Mark, but don't think for a second that his agent isn't trying to get a good deal. Just imagine if this were Scott Boras making the same offers and statements for Buehrle, we'd all be a little less likely to completely buy into the reports.

Nothing makes sense right now, which could just mean that we don't have all the facts.

jabrch
07-08-2007, 12:08 PM
Nothing makes sense right now, which could just mean that we don't have all the facts.

Great point...

pearso66
07-08-2007, 12:26 PM
Chris Rongey (sp?) brought up a good point on the post game show yesterday. He said that maybe it's possible that Buehrle's agent doesn't want to get this deal done. It takes away a big pay day for himself, and takes away all the attention he would get by having one of the top free-agents after this year and getting huge money, which would help him get more clients.

That being said, I really want them to resign Buehrle, but in my opinion, the only hometown discount he is really giving the Sox is the years. He'll definitely get 5-6 years in the free agent market, but I don't know if he'll get much more than 15 per year. I could be wrong, but the biggest point is the years in all of this.

I never understood why a player in his prime would want to hold himself down to a 5-6-7 year deal at this years market price, when he could sign a 3-4 year deal, and then re-up after those years for more money. I understand there is the possible injury factor, or that they might regress in talent, but you should always think you'll be healthy or at least comparable to where you are now in terms of talent. That is of course if you're in your prime. When you get to be about 33-35, that's when the longer term deals make sense, because you will start to decline, and injuries become more of a concern.

JB98
07-08-2007, 01:05 PM
Has anyone considered that maybe Mark is being the unreasonable one? Why is he so hung up on a no trade clause? IMO the Sox offer is very fair, 4 year 56 mil with all but 18 months non tradeable. If Mark wants a full no trade clause then the deal should drop down to 4 year 48-50 mil which is still very fair. I don't know. By adding the 5th year player option worth 17 mil, this basically is a no trade clause since most teams except for the Yankees or Red Sox will accept that for a guy who will be 33 and thus is an unfair offer by Mark. Maybe Mark isn't the good guy here??? JR and KW have to do what is best for the future of the team.


Please. You're making a fool of yourself. As a Sox fan, I'm delighted to see Mark making concessions to try to remain with the club. He could certainly get a better contract in free agency, and thanks to the Sox stubborn behavior, he probably will this offseason.

The Sox can spin this any way they like. They are the *******s here. I don't side with the players on every issue. I understood the reasons for getting rid of Ordonez, although I didn't necessarily like it. I agreed with the decision to cut ties with Thomas. But this here is Grade A bull****.

It's bull****. Plain and simple.

kittle42
07-08-2007, 01:15 PM
If I were team owner and we lost Buehrle, I'd fire KW in a microsecond. He is about to become the most unpopular baseball figure in Chicago. Let me be the first to call for KW's firing or resignation unless this deal somehow gets done.

The problem is the owner is driving this stuff, so Williams is more likely to get a pat on the back than a boot out the door.

kittle42
07-08-2007, 01:21 PM
BBTN ripping the Sox front office to shreds

I don't care whether it's ESPN or not - the Sox front office *should* be ripped to shreds. They're cheap now and they've always been cheap. They draw these lines in the sand on deals for pitchers and stick to them to their detriment. It's beyond obvious that the Sox are an organization that will only be successful with the "lighting in a bottle" approach (see rotating RF during the 90s, Kids Can Play, and of course 2005) and that the organization's philosophy economically will keep this franchise from ever being a perennial contender.

kittle42
07-08-2007, 01:30 PM
Maybe they don't want him back because they don't think he'll be worth $56M over the next 4 years. Maybe they believe either his performance will slip significantly or the team they have around him won't be good enough to win even if he pitches well. It's really that simple they just can't say it for obvious reasons.

This team wouldn't think Cy Young, Sandy Koufax, or Bob Gibson would be worth 56/4.

soxfanreggie
07-08-2007, 01:36 PM
I think MB is the kind of pitcher that will have longer-term success. He's not a pitcher that guns it 97+. He is a cerebral pitcher who wins games with better control of his stuff. More often than not, it is the type of pitcher that MB is that has much longer-term success.

TDog
07-08-2007, 01:42 PM
This team wouldn't think Cy Young, Sandy Koufax, or Bob Gibson would be worth 56/4.


No one did. If you total all the money all three made in their careers, you wouldn't come up with $56 million. And yet, Mark Buehrle is not Cy Young, Sandy Koufax or Bob Gibson.

TomParrish79
07-08-2007, 01:50 PM
on a side note, on the warm-up show right now, they are showing live footage of employees taking photos with buehrle....looks like they think he is gone too.

kittle42
07-08-2007, 01:52 PM
No one did. If you total all the money all three made in their careers, you wouldn't come up with $56 million. And yet, Mark Buehrle is not Cy Young, Sandy Koufax or Bob Gibson.

I have read your response four times and am still trying to figure it out. My point is, of course, that if those three pitchers were active in today's market, the Sox wouldn't think they were worth $56 million over 4 years.

TDog
07-08-2007, 02:02 PM
I have read your response four times and am still trying to figure it out. My point is, of course, that if those three pitchers were active in today's market, the Sox wouldn't think they were worth $56 million over 4 years.

My point is they aren't, and even if they were there is no way you can assume the Sox wouldn't think they were worth $56 million over four years.

The Immigrant
07-08-2007, 02:03 PM
No one did. If you total all the money all three made in their careers, you wouldn't come up with $56 million. And yet, Mark Buehrle is not Cy Young, Sandy Koufax or Bob Gibson.

Oh boy.

Taliesinrk
07-08-2007, 02:03 PM
No one did. If you total all the money all three made in their careers, you wouldn't come up with $56 million. And yet, Mark Buehrle is not Cy Young, Sandy Koufax or Bob Gibson.

ummm....
:unsure::?::unsure::?:

Taliesinrk
07-08-2007, 02:07 PM
while i try to figure out where TDog is going, I figured that I'd throw in a thread hijack:

does anyone else think that there is a better AAA outfield in the game than what the sox put on the field?

MrX
07-08-2007, 02:17 PM
:reinsy
"Believe me, I've already tried to offer my pitchers what players in the early 1900s made"

TomBradley72
07-08-2007, 02:25 PM
I never understood why a player in his prime would want to hold himself down to a 5-6-7 year deal at this years market price, when he could sign a 3-4 year deal, and then re-up after those years for more money. I understand there is the possible injury factor, or that they might regress in talent, but you should always think you'll be healthy or at least comparable to where you are now in terms of talent. That is of course if you're in your prime. When you get to be about 33-35, that's when the longer term deals make sense, because you will start to decline, and injuries become more of a concern.

Injuries are ALWAYS a concern. One line drive off the knee, rotator cuff, etc. can change a career in an instance. MB is giving up about $30-40MM guaranteed money by not going 100% into the free agency market.

thomas35forever
07-08-2007, 02:46 PM
The problem is the owner is driving this stuff, so Williams is more likely to get a pat on the back than a boot out the door.
You're right. I probably shouldn't have said firing since JR will gladly back his GM up. In either case, the head honchos have completely forgotten how we won in 2005.

nccwsfan
07-08-2007, 02:50 PM
This is just my opinion, but I think KW wants to rebuild this whole team from scratch. Here's the thing though: if the Sox let Mark walk I think they will receive more backlash from the fan base than they would if they traded every other member of the ballclub. Seriously, I think if they shipped off Garland, Konerko, Thome, Vazquez, and everyone else there would be at least a large minority of fans who would defend those moves as building for the future. Trading Mark or even letting him walk - especially after all these negotiations have been made public - would really, really, really piss off Sox fans. In the interest of the future of the team on the field and in the interest of the future image of the organization, give the man his stupid little NTC and shut the **** up about it already. Nobody feels sorry for a bunch of rich people who are whining about not being able to trade a player without his consent, especially those who come to the ballpark and pay for the contract.

This sends a message to the MLB players that this is how the CWS organization treats it's players, and if you're doing this to a guy like Mark Buehrle who aren't you going to do this to? It's just a bad situation that needs to be resolved today...

Boondock Saint
07-08-2007, 03:11 PM
The one image I keep getting in my head is a future press conference featuring this line...


:reinsy
"Anyone that thinks that Mark Buehrle has been reasonable in these contract negotiations is crazy."

kittle42
07-08-2007, 03:42 PM
In either case, the head honchos have completely forgotten how we won in 2005.

Not really. In 2005, they put together a bunch of spare parts that ended up working out great. JR has used this business model many times. Snatching success once changed that briefly. Last year, I think they honestly went out and put a team out there that they thought could repeat in the World Series. When the second half of 2006 happened, JR went back to his old ways. Now, we get to live with that again.

areilly
07-08-2007, 04:07 PM
Maybe it also has become an ego thing for Mark as well. It is a power struggle from both sides. It takes two to tango.

It's possible, but you have to keep in mind that stunts like this are also the M.O. for the Sox' front office going all the way back to the early '80's. These threads have been littered with memories of negotiations, deals, and transactions past where players were **** on by the organization.

getonbckthr
07-08-2007, 04:21 PM
I'm not really watching the game today. My brother told me they showed Mark walking around hugging and shaking everyone's hand? Is he ****ing with me or did this happen?

JermaineDye05
07-08-2007, 04:23 PM
I'm not really watching the game today. My brother told me they showed Mark walking around hugging and shaking everyone's hand? Is he ****ing with me or did this happen?

I didn't see anything but I've been switching back and forth with the game and 'Fletch'. If that did happen it doesn't really clarify anything, it could mean they got a deal done or it could mean it's his last game with the team.

WSox597
07-08-2007, 04:25 PM
This "10-cent brain" **** is ridiculous. I realize you're upset, but the last time I checked Mark Buehrle didn't pitch too well last year either. Does he also have a "10-cent brain" that only works when the pressure is off?

You're right, I am upset. And Buehrle had a really off year last year. The fact remains, he is 33 games over .500 for his career.

And Javy, with his 'better stuff', is under .500 for his career. The story on him has been that he can't handle pressure. Hence, the 10-cent brain remark. I'm not the first guy to use it, and probably won't be the last.

I'm also upset that Mark Buehrle is getting jerked around by the same people who signed Javy to a three year extension for $13 million per year.

Especially next year, when Mark is gone and the rotation looks like Contreras, Vazquez, Garland, Danks, and ? from the minors. Lose Buehrle and Garland walks as soon as his contract is up. Why would any thinking person want to put up with being treated like this? Take the money and run.

I am upset, but not at anybody on WSI. Just a couple in the boardroom of the White Sox.

Taliesinrk
07-08-2007, 04:30 PM
Yes!!!!! Mark Signs!!!!!

getonbckthr
07-08-2007, 04:30 PM
thank ****ing God

JermaineDye05
07-08-2007, 04:32 PM
now get off of Kenny's back

Frontman
07-08-2007, 04:34 PM
This long wait is OVAH!

Yes, we can get off of KW's back.

kittle42
07-08-2007, 04:41 PM
This long wait is OVAH!

Yes, we can get off of KW's back.

I still have beefs with Williams, but I obviously give him the congratulations he deserves in this instance.

TDog
07-08-2007, 04:46 PM
I still have beefs with Williams, but I obviously give him the congratulations he deserves in this instance.

But many of your assumptions have been proved unfounded.

sox1970
07-08-2007, 04:46 PM
Thank God this thread is about to be closed!!!

Frontman
07-08-2007, 04:47 PM
I still have beefs with Williams, but I obviously give him the congratulations he deserves in this instance.

Oh, I totally can see where folks could still be upset with KW (especially his moves for the bullpen this year) but at least for this? I'm glad to see Mark and the Sox come to terms. I just hated the idea that he would of been elsewhere.

FarWestChicago
07-08-2007, 08:53 PM
LMAO!!!!!!! There are a lot of people who should be completely and totally embarrassed by what they posted in this thread. Sucking ESPN butt? Have some dignity. My gawd. This is one of the great embarrassments in the history of WSI. :tsk:

FarWestChicago
07-08-2007, 08:54 PM
Oh, I totally can see where folks could still be upset with KW...Give it a rest. You, and several others, made complete asses out of yourselves in these threads. Hide in shame. You deserve it. :rolleyes:

voodoochile
07-09-2007, 12:18 AM
LMAO!!!!!!! There are a lot of people who should be completely and totally embarrassed by what they posted in this thread. Sucking ESPN butt? Have some dignity. My gawd. This is one of the great embarrassments in the history of WSI. :tsk:

1700 posts of crap while contract negotiation RUMORS played out in the press.

This is officially the second biggest thread in WSI history behind only the Tribune Headline thread and it's a complete turd...