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View Full Version : *Official* Right on the Mark 7.7.07 Postgame Thread


CubsfansareDRUNK
07-07-2007, 06:15 PM
:bandance:BUEHRLE :bandance:

Frater Perdurabo
07-07-2007, 06:16 PM
Now sign him. Just get it done. Give us Sox fans some good news. Reward loyalty.

Very nice. His ERA is approaching the twos (3.26). If he keeps this up, he might just be a Cy Young candidate.

Crede_Fan
07-07-2007, 06:17 PM
:bandance:BUEHRLE :bandance:


Now on to the postgame show where they annouce that Buehrle has been given his NTC.

RowanDye
07-07-2007, 06:18 PM
Looks like a good thing to re-build around to me.

oeo
07-07-2007, 06:19 PM
Good job Burls. :D:

BTW, Bobby was getting squeezed in the 9th.

ndgt10
07-07-2007, 06:19 PM
Awesome job by Buehrle. Definitely ups his trade stock.

crazyozzie02
07-07-2007, 06:19 PM
Now sign him. Just get it done. Give us Sox fans some good news. Reward loyalty.

Very nice. His ERA is approaching the twos (3.26). If he keeps this up, he might just be a Cy Young candidate.

took the words right out of my mouth

MISoxfan
07-07-2007, 06:19 PM
Now sign him. Just get it done. Give us Sox fans some good news. Reward loyalty.

Very nice. His ERA is approaching the twos (3.26). If he keeps this up, he might just be a Cy Young candidate.

That was his ERA prior to this start. Its at 3.03 now. Even if he drops his ERA down to 2.7 by the end of the season the Cy Young will be out of his reach unless he manages 12 or 13 wins in the second half.

kittle42
07-07-2007, 06:21 PM
That was his ERA prior to this start. Its at 3.03 now. Even if he drops his ERA down to 2.7 by the end of the season the Cy Young will be out of his reach unless he manages 12 or 13 wins in the second half.

I was just going to post the same thing. Cy Young is a bit far-fetched.

Cuck the Fubs
07-07-2007, 06:21 PM
Nice job again by Mark.

Sign this guy, NOW!

chisoxmike
07-07-2007, 06:22 PM
Just get it done Kenny.

Also, any one pissed with Mackowiak not sliding to home? Sure, he still probably would've been out, but ****ing ****, try. Show some heart, don't run into the ****ing tag. If that wasn't a sign of this team, I dont know what else is.

lostfan
07-07-2007, 06:22 PM
Very quietly, Owens has been putting together a small string of three 2-hit games. On the 5th his average was .172 and today his average is .225. It's a tiny sign, but it's still a good sign. Maybe he'll end up being a real major leaguer after all.

Frater Perdurabo
07-07-2007, 06:23 PM
Looking at the team stats, he now has the best ERA on the team (He's now at 3.03, Jenks goes up after allowing the run today). Among qualifying starters, he'd be 5th in the AL in ERA. He's ahead of Sabathia. Ahead of Beckett. Ahead of Dice-K. Ahead of Bedard. Ahead of Wang. Ahead of Bonderman. And ahead of Blanton, Verlander and Lackey. Behind only Haren, Guthrie, Santana and Gaudin. And Gaudin and Haren pitch in a home park very friendly to pitchers (look at all the foul territory!), while Buehrle pitches in "Coors East." And yet some claim he's not an ace?

oeo
07-07-2007, 06:23 PM
Very quietly, Owens has been putting together a small string of three 2-hit games. On the 5th his average was .172 and today his average is .225. It's a tiny sign, but it's still a good sign. Maybe he'll end up being a real major leaguer after all.

Two bunt hits today, whoopee. He let Cuddyer get into third in the 9th today, and he ****ed up an easy out in the 9th against Baltimore in left. He's not making a fan out of me.

lostfan
07-07-2007, 06:25 PM
Two bunt hits today, whoopee. He let Cuddyer get into third in the 9th today, and he ****ed up an easy out in the 9th against Baltimore in left. He's not making a fan out of me.
I didn't say he was lights-out, I just said he was actually being productive, making progress, and generally not being worthless. Which, granted, is nothing to brag about, but with this team it's actually a step in the right direction.

ndgt10
07-07-2007, 06:26 PM
Two bunt hits today, whoopee. He let Cuddyer get into third in the 9th today, and he ****ed up an easy out in the 9th against Baltimore in left. He's not making a fan out of me.
You hate him.

crazyozzie02
07-07-2007, 06:26 PM
Just get it done Kenny.

Also, any one pissed with Mackowiak not sliding to home? Sure, he still probably would've been out, but ****ing ****, try. Show some heart, don't run into the ****ing tag. If that wasn't a sign of this team, I dont know what else is.

I was. Just look at my comment in the gameday thread. i was a little more than pissed.:smile:

oeo
07-07-2007, 06:27 PM
You hate him.

Huh? :?:

I don't hate him. I don't hate anyone on the Sox. I dislike him as a player, though, and I supported him throughout his entire first stint with the team. I'd rather see Sweeney getting those ABs.

jabrch
07-07-2007, 06:28 PM
Two bunt hits today, whoopee. He let Cuddyer get into third in the 9th today, and he ****ed up an easy out in the 9th against Baltimore in left. He's not making a fan out of me.

I don't care how he hits em -- but 2 hits are still 2 hits.

Yeah - he should have slid into home - but he had a good day at the dish.

oeo
07-07-2007, 06:30 PM
I don't care how he hits em -- but 2 hits are still 2 hits.

Yeah - he should have slid into home - but he had a good day at the dish.

I understand that they were two hits, and I'll take them, but they didn't encourage me at all that he's going to get better right now. They're throwing him stuff to hit, and he can't do anything with it...difficult to watch, I must say.

That was Mackowiak that didn't slide, but that brings up another thing about Owens. He cannot hit with RISP. I don't think he has a single RBI yet, and he's had plenty of opportunities. That AB was absolutely terrible, and then he has the weak hopper right to Morneau. Usually it's a weak hopper to the mound, though...which probably would have been better because Mackowiak wouldn't have went.

lostfan
07-07-2007, 06:30 PM
I'm just encouraged by fast guys like Owens finding a way to get on base.

kittle42
07-07-2007, 06:33 PM
Looking at the team stats, he now has the best ERA on the team (He's now at 3.03, Jenks goes up after allowing the run today). Among qualifying starters, he'd be 5th in the AL in ERA. He's ahead of Sabathia. Ahead of Beckett. Ahead of Dice-K. Ahead of Bedard. Ahead of Wang. Ahead of Bonderman. And ahead of Blanton, Verlander and Lackey. Behind only Haren, Guthrie, Santana and Gaudin. And Gaudin and Haren pitch in a home park very friendly to pitchers (look at all the foul territory!), while Buehrle pitches in "Coors East." And yet some claim he's not an ace?


Look at his career stats. He's not an ace. He's a mediocre-to-average at best No. 1 or a very, very good No. 2.

MarySwiss
07-07-2007, 06:34 PM
Well, through judicious use of working overtime and taking my banjo lesson, I managed to get home just as this game entered the sixth inning.

[begin rant]Just in time to turn on ESPN, where some sportscaster (female, I'm sorry to say), reported that the Sox led the Twins 3-0. I know, that doesn't sound so bad, but what got me was the gratuitous comment (paraphrased) After the Twins scored 32 runs in a doubleheader win over the White Sox, they are being shut out today.

YES. That's because (hello!) Mark Buehrle is pitching!

I don't mean to rant, but I'm in a really bad mood--not entirely Sox-related--and it really rubs me the wrong way when someone who is trying to pass as a sports professional doesn't understand....oh, the hell with it. I think I'll have another beer![/end rant]

lostfan
07-07-2007, 06:34 PM
That was Mackowiak that didn't slide, but that brings up another thing about Owens. He cannot hit with RISP. I don't think he has a single RBI yet, and he's had plenty of opportunities. That AB was absolutely terrible, and then he has the weak hopper right to Morneau. Usually it's a weak hopper to the mound, though...which probably would have been better because Mackowiak wouldn't have went.
Literally every time I've seen Owens bat (I don't get to watch every Sox game) he's grounded out weakly to an infielder, except one time where I actually saw him hit a soft liner to the OF. Talk about no power at all. But he's been getting better lately, and after all he was hitting something like .300 in the minors. If he can eventually develop that kind of contact ability in the majors he'll be fine. IF.

oeo
07-07-2007, 06:36 PM
Literally every time I've seen Owens bat (I don't get to watch every Sox game) he's grounded out weakly to an infielder, except one time where I actually saw him hit a soft liner to the OF. Talk about no power at all. But he's been getting better lately, and after all he was hitting something like .300 in the minors. If he can eventually develop that kind of contact ability in the majors he'll be fine. IF.

His average actually dropped in the minors between his last stint in the majors to this one. Why not bring up the guy that has improved? aka Sweeney

lostfan
07-07-2007, 06:38 PM
Look at his career stats. He's not an ace. He's a mediocre-to-average at best No. 1 or a very, very good No. 2.
I had an argument with some Tigers fans that he's better than Bonderman though. They seem convinced that Verlander and Bonderman are both aces, when Bonderman's career numbers have him as a #3 to me and at best a #2. Whereas Buehrle has been consistently what he is now, save for a setback here and there, for his whole career, from the very beginning.

oeo
07-07-2007, 06:40 PM
I had an argument with some Tigers fans that he's better than Bonderman though. They seem convinced that Verlander and Bonderman are both aces, when Bonderman's career numbers have him as a #3 to me and at best a #2. Whereas Buehrle has been consistently what he is now, save for a setback here and there, for his whole career, from the very beginning.

Tigers fans love to overrate Bonderman. He's so inconsistent, there's no way I could call him an ace. With Buehrle, you get consistency...Bonderman your going to get an ace game, and then a #5 game, then a #3 game, maybe another ace game, then he's a #5 again.

He's only 24, but he's been in the league for 4 and half years now...you'd think he'd start showing some consistency but he's not.

Frater Perdurabo
07-07-2007, 06:41 PM
Look at his career stats. He's not an ace. He's a mediocre-to-average at best No. 1 or a very, very good No. 2.

Look at his stats this year. His ERA is #5 in the AL (pending other results today). That means he's performing like one of the top 5, or at least the top 10, pitchers in the AL. He's absolutely is the "ace" of this staff, which is one of the best rotations in the AL. Obviously he's not a Santana, but there are very few pitchers pitching in 2007 who I would rather have starting a World Series Game 7.

Tragg
07-07-2007, 06:42 PM
I don't care how he hits em -- but 2 hits are still 2 hits.

Yeah - he should have slid into home - but he had a good day at the dish.

They count, but they aren't a measure of future performance. If that's his game, it will soon be easily defended.
He also needs to take walks - I know good pitchers won't walk him, but bad pitchers will. Walks are at least as dependable as slap hit ground balls that find holes. 2 walks in 76 at bats is disconcerting.

lostfan
07-07-2007, 06:42 PM
His average actually dropped in the minors between his last stint in the majors to this one. Why not bring up the guy that has improved? aka Sweeney
I want Sweeney up permanently as much as you do, but he and Owens are different types of offensive players who bring different things to the squad.

lostfan
07-07-2007, 06:43 PM
Tigers fans love to overrate Bonderman. He's so inconsistent, there's no way I could call him an ace. With Buehrle, you get consistency...Bonderman your going to get an ace game, and then a #5 game, then a #3 game, maybe another ace game, then he's a #5 again.

He's only 24, but he's been in the league for 4 and half years now...you'd think he'd start showing some consistency but he's not.
...And they always say "he's a legit ace when he finally develops some consistency." My response is "yeah, so is Vazquez."

oeo
07-07-2007, 06:44 PM
I want Sweeney up permanently as much as you do, but he and Owens are different types of offensive players who bring different things to the squad.

Yep, Owens brings nothing besides the occasional stolen base when he can actually get on, and Sweeney brings base hits, walks, and a little bit of power, with a great glove and pretty quick feet.

jabrch
07-07-2007, 06:46 PM
There is no way I am having a discussion right now about the merits of a traditional leadoff hitter.

lostfan
07-07-2007, 06:47 PM
Yep, Owens brings nothing besides the occasional stolen base when he can actually get on, and Sweeney brings base hits, walks, and a little bit of power, with a great glove and pretty quick feet.
Again, I agree that Sweeney should be up, and staying up, hopefully forever. But he's not, Owens is the one who's here so I want to see Owens succeed. I'd be elated if he turns out to be a good leadoff guy. Or even a consistent 8 or 9 (looking at you, Uribe).

lostfan
07-07-2007, 06:51 PM
There is no way I am having a discussion right now about the merits of a leadoff hitter.
The benefit almost goes without saying. If I had time I'd build an argument that fast, high OBP guys are more responsible for consistent offensive production than power hitters (excluding obvious exceptions like Barry Bonds), but I'm doing too many other things.

jabrch
07-07-2007, 06:54 PM
The benefit almost goes without saying. If I had time I'd build an argument that fast, high OBP guys are more responsible for consistent offensive production than power hitters (excluding obvious exceptions like Barry Bonds), but I'm doing too many other things.

I'll even argue that you can be an effective leadoff hitter without a very high OBP. But I won't argue that today.

Gavin
07-07-2007, 07:23 PM
Two bunt hits today, whoopee. He let Cuddyer get into third in the 9th today, and he ****ed up an easy out in the 9th against Baltimore in left. He's not making a fan out of me.

There was no way he was going to get Cuddyer out at third, let it go.

Law11
07-07-2007, 07:24 PM
I'm just encouraged by fast guys like Owens finding a way to get on base.

he might have some speed but

He is awful at the plate. His bat is so slow teams arent even having to challenge him.

lostfan
07-07-2007, 07:27 PM
he might have some speed but

He is awful at the plate. His bat is so slow teams arent even having to challenge him.
Well, yeah. That's why his batting average is where it is in the first place. But if he's improving i'm all for it.

kitekrazy
07-07-2007, 07:28 PM
Just get it done Kenny.

Also, any one pissed with Mackowiak not sliding to home? Sure, he still probably would've been out, but ****ing ****, try. Show some heart, don't run into the ****ing tag. If that wasn't a sign of this team, I dont know what else is.

The only time I'm not irritated with him is when he's not playing.

kitekrazy
07-07-2007, 07:29 PM
Very quietly, Owens has been putting together a small string of three 2-hit games.

I loved the bunt single.

lostfan
07-07-2007, 07:32 PM
I loved the bunt single.
Something the rest of the team can't do, sadly.

kitekrazy
07-07-2007, 07:36 PM
It was annoying to hear about Buerhle's contract thru most of the game.

GlassSox
07-07-2007, 07:53 PM
It was annoying to hear about Buerhle's contract thru most of the game.

Amen! I just want it over.

oeo
07-07-2007, 08:22 PM
There was no way he was going to get Cuddyer out at third, let it go.

Uhm, there's no reason to get him out at third if you don't let him even think about taking third, and he definitely hesitated.

HotelWhiteSox
07-07-2007, 08:25 PM
Nice game, good energy in the park for Burls, gotta love him

santo=dorf
07-07-2007, 08:36 PM
Something the rest of the team can't do, sadly.
You can't knock in runs with a bunt single unless Larussa is the manager. Even then you might do it 5 times a year.

I saw Owens had a CS by the pitcher. Did he leave too early again?
I don't care how he hits em -- but 2 hits are still 2 hits.

Yeah - he should have slid into home - but he had a good day at the dish.
A home run is a hit as is a double and a triple. Those hits are not the same as a bunt single.

I'll even argue that you can be an effective leadoff hitter without a very high OBP. But I won't argue that today.
Please do this sometime during the dead period of the all-star break.

Even coming into this season the guys who you are willing to trust with anything, Kenny Williams and Ozzie Guillen, said they wanted their leadoff hitter to "just get on base."

MISoxfan
07-07-2007, 08:43 PM
Look at his career stats. He's not an ace. He's a mediocre-to-average at best No. 1 or a very, very good No. 2.

It depends on how you define Ace. If an Ace is the 30 best pitchers in baseball than he is.

He's 18th overall in career ERA+ and 7 of the people ahead of him are over 40 and 2 more are 38.

If you just want to go by regular ERA he's 22nd active with 9 people over 40.

Of course age wouldn't mean anything if those pitchers were still outpitching him, but they aren't.

Railsplitter
07-07-2007, 08:47 PM
We win

:bandance:

lostfan
07-07-2007, 08:49 PM
You can't knock in runs with a bunt single unless Larussa is the manager. Even then you might do it 5 times a year.

So? We're talking about a leadoff type hitter, that's not what they're expected to do. Get on base, be fast, be productive, advance quickly on hits, score runs.

Lip Man 1
07-07-2007, 08:49 PM
If this is it for Mark, he went out with a bang. Another quality performance.

Lip

salty99
07-07-2007, 08:53 PM
Awesome game to attend, plus I didn't get scorched by the sun for once!

Frontman
07-07-2007, 08:58 PM
Beautiful performance once again by Mark. Bobby had to make it interesting. Konerko reminded us all why we have the exploding scoreboard to begin with. (Never fails, I go for food? Konerko hits a homer.)

Agreed with all. Just get Mark signed already, KW. Listen to the crowd, listen to the energy he gives to your fanbase. Today reminded quite a lot of us how special this kid is.

Get 'er done.

RowanDye
07-07-2007, 09:15 PM
Obviously he's not a Santana, but there are very few pitchers pitching in 2007 who I would rather have starting a World Series Game 7.

I agree completely, which is why I'm really surprised and confused to hear that teams are unwilling to give up their top prospects for Mark.

Maybe they're just posturing, but to me the value of a proven postseason starter greatly outweighs an unproven prospect.

Grzegorz
07-07-2007, 09:27 PM
Just get it done Kenny.

Also, any one pissed with Mackowiak not sliding to home? Sure, he still probably would've been out, but ****ing ****, try. Show some heart, don't run into the ****ing tag. If that wasn't a sign of this team, I dont know what else is.

Yes, as I posted on another thread this team is full of "nice guys". Go in hard; make contact.

cws05champ
07-07-2007, 09:34 PM
If this is it for Mark, he went out with a bang. Another quality performance.

Lip

KW is always saying that he wants championship caliber players on his team. If that is the case, get Mark signed...he has already proven that he is that caliber and anything else you want in a pitcher/teammate.

MCHSoxFan
07-07-2007, 10:17 PM
:bandance:BUEHRLE :bandance:

Nice sig.!!!

Oh, by the way, GREAT GAME. I was there (Of course, I am there EVERY SAT. & SUN.!), and it was really a GREAT GAME. An OUTSTANDING pitching performance and just ENOUGH OFFENSE to get a WIN!!! That's just the way I LIKE it!!!!

I really liked when everbody was standing up and cheering for Mark. I wish he pitched a CG. But hey, now a days, A WIN IS A WIN!

markopat
07-07-2007, 10:48 PM
Now sign him. Just get it done. Give us Sox fans some good news. Reward loyalty!

I couldn't agree MORE!

Hitmen77
07-07-2007, 11:02 PM
Now sign him. Just get it done. Give us Sox fans some good news. Reward loyalty.


Exactly! We need Buehrle on this team. I can't even imagine a rotation of Garland-Javy-Jose-Danks-Floyd. Wow - i think we'd lose 110 games the way we've been playing.

Any way you slice it, our rotation next year is going to suck without Buehrle in it. We'll have only Garland and then nothing but inconsistency.

If you think you've seen enough of our bullpen, wait until Mark is gone - you're sure to see alot more of them. But, that's okay - I can accept the White Sox totally sucking as long as they aren't "handcuffed" to their best and most popular player.:angry:

JB98
07-07-2007, 11:04 PM
I have Buehrle to thank for making my 31st birthday an enjoyable afternoon at the ballpark. Mark has been a joy to watch pitch these last seven years.

I witnessed his big-league debut in person in a game against the Brewers back in July 2000. Earlier this year, I witnessed his no-hitter and his 100th career win in person. There were many great performances in between. If this was the last time I got to see him pitch in a White Sox uniform, I enjoyed every last minute of it. If he leaves, I will miss him terribly.

2007 White Sox:
When Buehrle pitches: 11-6
Everyone else: 27-41

JB's 2007 attendance record:
When Buerhle pitches: 4-1
Everyone else: 0-8

Here's to you, Mark Buehrle. You are a winner. :gulp:

whitesoxwilkes
07-07-2007, 11:21 PM
Some pics from today. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ilk/sets/72157600706711971/) Enjoy!

ChiSoxGirl
07-08-2007, 12:07 AM
The TBGR (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/../rwas/index.php?category=4&id=3426) for a winner, pitched by our beloved Mark Buehrle. I don't know whether to :smile: or :whiner:.

ChiSoxGirl
07-08-2007, 12:14 AM
Some pics from today. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ilk/sets/72157600706711971/) Enjoy!

Those are some great shots of Buehrls on the mound!!! Did you sit somewhere else for part of the game that you got that angle?

tacosalbarojas
07-08-2007, 12:36 AM
I agree completely, which is why I'm really surprised and confused to hear that teams are unwilling to give up their top prospects for Mark.

Maybe they're just posturing, but to me the value of a proven postseason starter greatly outweighs an unproven prospect.
It's because he and his agent have made it clear that he intends to pursue the free agent market in the offseason so he will be only a two month rental for whatever team gets him.

CLR01
07-08-2007, 12:49 AM
The only time I'm not irritated with him is when he's not playing.

Him being on the roster irritates me.

MeteorsSox4367
07-08-2007, 12:53 AM
Great game by Buehrle. Got two tickets from a vendor at work, ended up in the last row of 114, underneath the mezzanine and out of the sun, which was helpful.

Loved the ovation for Buehrle. I know I was screaming my ass off for him. There was one point at the beginning of the game when they showed Buehrle's season stats on the scoreboard and I mentioned sarcastically to my brother that the Sox didn't need Buehrle anymore.

Maybe it's because I'm a cynical Chicago sports fan, but when Buehrle got his ovation, I just felt empty, like this would be the last time we'd cheer for him with the Sox. Like I mentioned to my brother on the way to the game, watch the Sox trade Buehrle to someone in the AL so it can bite the Sox in the ass three times a season.

Please, Kenny and Jerry. Cut the BS and sign Buehrle!

RockJock07
07-08-2007, 01:53 AM
Agreed, I want him signed! Now! I just was thinking how if MB gets traded, how crazy things will get at the Cell and on the Score. The **** will hit the fan so to speak.

I agree with those who want Sweeney up here. Erstad is gonna go on a rehad assenment right after the AS break. Trade Dye and bring up Sweeney and stick him in Right or center the rest of the season.

IowaSox1971
07-08-2007, 03:36 AM
Great game by Buehrle. Got two tickets from a vendor at work, ended up in the last row of 114, underneath the mezzanine and out of the sun, which was helpful.

Loved the ovation for Buehrle. I know I was screaming my ass off for him. There was one point at the beginning of the game when they showed Buehrle's season stats on the scoreboard and I mentioned sarcastically to my brother that the Sox didn't need Buehrle anymore.

Maybe it's because I'm a cynical Chicago sports fan, but when Buehrle got his ovation, I just felt empty, like this would be the last time we'd cheer for him with the Sox. Like I mentioned to my brother on the way to the game, watch the Sox trade Buehrle to someone in the AL so it can bite the Sox in the ass three times a season.

Please, Kenny and Jerry. Cut the BS and sign Buehrle!


Be careful what you wish for. Last season, when we needed a game like this from Buehrle in the second half, he couldn't deliver. Now, when he's pitching for a new contract but the game is relatively meaningless for us, he throws a gem. There are no guarantees, and if we re-sign Buehrle, he could revert back to his awful form of 2006.

Zito is struggling this year for the Giants, and Schmidt is out for the season with the Dodgers. Giving a pitcher a ton of money does not necessarily mean he will have a great season for you.

While I would like to see Buehrle remain with the Sox, perhaps it would be best if he were traded, and we received top prospects and cleared payroll space in the process. Perhaps the team would be better if a somewhat lesser, but cheaper, pitcher filled his spot in the rotation but we were able to sign a good reliever or two to shore up the bullpen. We also need help in the outfield and in the middle infield.

If the starter gives up three runs in six innings and then two relievers slam the door in the seventh and eighth to get the ball to Jenks, then we're better off than if a guy like Buehrle gives up two runs in seven innings, only to have the setup guy give up two or three in the eighth. I'd rather have the team give up three runs before we get to Jenks than four or five.

I still remember the cries of gloom and doom when we got rid of Carlos Lee after the 2004 season. But we acquired Podsednik and Vizcaino for him, and with the extra payroll space we were able to sign A.J., Iguchi and El Duque.

whitesoxwilkes
07-08-2007, 07:09 AM
Those are some great shots of Buehrls on the mound!!! Did you sit somewhere else for part of the game that you got that angle?

Thanks! The first batch were taken from the top of Section 143 and the rest were from my seats. All were using a 75-300mm zoom lens.

Frater Perdurabo
07-08-2007, 07:28 AM
Be careful what you wish for. Last season, when we needed a game like this from Buehrle in the second half, he couldn't deliver. Now, when he's pitching for a new contract but the game is relatively meaningless for us, he throws a gem. There are no guarantees, and if we re-sign Buehrle, he could revert back to his awful form of 2006...
I still remember the cries of gloom and doom when we got rid of Carlos Lee after the 2004 season. But we acquired Podsednik and Vizcaino for him, and with the extra payroll space we were able to sign A.J., Iguchi and El Duque.

I'm not going to make excuses for the second half of 2006; Buehrle was bad. But that was the only part of his career in which he was bad. He since has rebounded to be one of the best pitchers in the AL.

Long-term contracts always involve risk. That's why teams purchase insurance policies. You or me or he might slip and fall in the shower and suffer permanent brain damage. Maybe we shouldn't get out of bed at all!

There are many ways to get offensive production. The 2005 Sox did have a more balanced offense - less power than 2004 but more speed and better execution in critical situations.

What set the 2005 team apart, though, was the pitching. Starting pitching is the most valuable, and the rarest, commodity in baseball. Buehrle's contract offer - that KW has not yet signed - locks up one of the best pitchers in the game at a discount price.

Let's think of this in terms of buying horses for a horse-drawn wagon. Buehrle is one of the best horses on the market. But you're afraid to buy him at a discount price to help pull your wagon because you're afraid he'll get hurt. So instead, you'd rather buy a mule and two sled dogs.

Lip Man 1
07-08-2007, 01:35 PM
Iowa:

If this happens we'll have to wait and see until oh the team returns to spring training to see how it all fell out.

Some folks are saying the Sox will do this with the money saved, the Sox will get these quality prospects, the Sox will sign Ichiro (who I think will get more then 14 million a season)...but we don't know that for a fact right now.

If Mark goes eventually we'll see what happens, and then we can make a better judgement.

Lip

jabrch
07-08-2007, 02:05 PM
Be careful what you wish for. Last season, when we needed a game like this from Buehrle in the second half, he couldn't deliver. Now, when he's pitching for a new contract but the game is relatively meaningless for us, he throws a gem. There are no guarantees, and if we re-sign Buehrle, he could revert back to his awful form of 2006.

Zito is struggling this year for the Giants, and Schmidt is out for the season with the Dodgers. Giving a pitcher a ton of money does not necessarily mean he will have a great season for you.

While I would like to see Buehrle remain with the Sox, perhaps it would be best if he were traded, and we received top prospects and cleared payroll space in the process. Perhaps the team would be better if a somewhat lesser, but cheaper, pitcher filled his spot in the rotation but we were able to sign a good reliever or two to shore up the bullpen. We also need help in the outfield and in the middle infield.

If the starter gives up three runs in six innings and then two relievers slam the door in the seventh and eighth to get the ball to Jenks, then we're better off than if a guy like Buehrle gives up two runs in seven innings, only to have the setup guy give up two or three in the eighth. I'd rather have the team give up three runs before we get to Jenks than four or five.

I still remember the cries of gloom and doom when we got rid of Carlos Lee after the 2004 season. But we acquired Podsednik and Vizcaino for him, and with the extra payroll space we were able to sign A.J., Iguchi and El Duque.

Your opinion, while clearly in the minority, is quite meritous.

jabrch
07-08-2007, 02:13 PM
Let's think of this in terms of buying horses for a horse-drawn wagon. Buehrle is one of the best horses on the market. But you're afraid to buy him at a discount price to help pull your wagon because you're afraid he'll get hurt. So instead, you'd rather buy a mule and two sled dogs.

All KW is saying is that your good horse today may not be so good tomorrow and he wants the ability to trade it for younger horses. There's no reason he shouldn't want that.

His horse doesn't want to ever live in a different stable. After 3 years, he will have the privledge. But until he gets there, KW is holding out for the team's (self perceived) best interest.

MISoxfan
07-08-2007, 02:40 PM
Be careful what you wish for. Last season, when we needed a game like this from Buehrle in the second half, he couldn't deliver. Now, when he's pitching for a new contract but the game is relatively meaningless for us, he throws a gem. There are no guarantees, and if we re-sign Buehrle, he could revert back to his awful form of 2006.

Zito is struggling this year for the Giants, and Schmidt is out for the season with the Dodgers. Giving a pitcher a ton of money does not necessarily mean he will have a great season for you.

While I would like to see Buehrle remain with the Sox, perhaps it would be best if he were traded, and we received top prospects and cleared payroll space in the process. Perhaps the team would be better if a somewhat lesser, but cheaper, pitcher filled his spot in the rotation but we were able to sign a good reliever or two to shore up the bullpen. We also need help in the outfield and in the middle infield.

If the starter gives up three runs in six innings and then two relievers slam the door in the seventh and eighth to get the ball to Jenks, then we're better off than if a guy like Buehrle gives up two runs in seven innings, only to have the setup guy give up two or three in the eighth. I'd rather have the team give up three runs before we get to Jenks than four or five.

I still remember the cries of gloom and doom when we got rid of Carlos Lee after the 2004 season. But we acquired Podsednik and Vizcaino for him, and with the extra payroll space we were able to sign A.J., Iguchi and El Duque.

I'm surprised you remember that since you seem to have forgotten the 7 and a half quality seasons Buehrle has given us only to remember the one bad half he's had. And knocking this because its after the Sox was out of it? Are you really suggesting that Buehrle is a choker in the big games?

No of course there is no guarantee of Buehrle doing good, nobody has a crystal ball. However throwing 2 bad signings out there does not prove a thing. Ask Houston how RJ did for them in 98, or Arizona how he did when they signed him in 99. How did Maddux work out for Atlanta? Think Boston regrets signing Pedro? Do the Mets? How'd we do with Garcia?