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View Full Version : Sox Bullpen: YUCK!


RKMeibalane
04-03-2002, 02:29 PM
The Sox bullpen sucks. That's my assesment of them after two days. Yes, I know I said that the season is two days old in my post about Frank Thomas, but Frank is Frank. We all know what he is capable of. The Sox bullpen, on the other hand, has not proven itself yet. Keith Foulke is capable of getting it done at the end of games, but it's the other guys that bother me. Gary Glover has been awful this spring. If he doesn't stop putting runners on base, Manuel shouldn't use him. Marte didn't look too bad on Monday- he may be better than I thought. If so, that's one thing that has worked out for the best.

It won't do the Sox any good if their starters work six or seven innings, and the 'pen blows it. Good teams are able to finish teams off, and the Sox have already had trouble shutting the door on their opponent. They espcaped with a win Monday, but they payed the price Tuesday.

spaz
04-03-2002, 02:52 PM
I told people two weeks ago, to stop worrying about the starting pitching but to worry about the pen. I mean all the options there besides foulke come with major question marks.

I mean the options are either washed up journerymen (porzio,) or just getting off of doctor james andrews table(barcelo,osuna)

Or have simply seemed to have lost it(glover,gascan)


Though so far I am going to go back on what I said about the marte trade, it might not be as bad as I thought it was, Marte has looked pretty good, and has a good delivery and throws very hard for a lefty.

In conclsion I would agree that this bullpen to a degree sucks eggs, however you have to remember a couple things
1) so far all they have faced this season, is seattle, a pretty good hitting team, when faced with less talented lineups this bullpen may fear better
2) We have many different options in about a mounth to change this around if it's still this bad, those options being Butters,wunch,sideburns(all should be back from the dl)
then we have the usual minor league suspects ginter,Ulacia, ,west,almonte etc etc

czalgosz
04-03-2002, 03:33 PM
Aaahhhh!!! the world is coming to an end!!!!!

Any statheads that say there's no such thing as clutch hitting need to be shown tapes of every Sox-Mariners game over the past year and a half. I've never seen such a collection of weak popups falling in front of outfielders and grounders with eyes as the Mariners seem to routinely put together in late innings of games against the Sox.

Better positioning of the defense would solve some of this - Jerry Manuel seems to have no clue how to position fielders based on who's hitting and the situation in the game. But part of it is just dumb luck.

Also, Manuel needs to stop having such an itchy trigger finger. Tony LaRussa once said, "the more pitching changes you make, the better chance there is that you'll find someone who just doesn't have it that day."

As far as I could tell, the relievers were making good pitches - it's just that the Sox fielders couldn't do anything with them once they were in play.

kermittheefrog
04-03-2002, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz

Any statheads that say there's no such thing as clutch hitting need to be shown tapes of every Sox-Mariners game over the past year and a half. I've never seen such a collection of weak popups falling in front of outfielders and grounders with eyes as the Mariners seem to routinely put together in late innings of games against the Sox.


It's not that we say there's no such thing as clutch hitting. Of course there is clutch hitting. Clutch hitting just isn't a talent. There's no such thing as a clutch hitter.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-03-2002, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
It's not that we say there's no such thing as clutch hitting. Of course there is clutch hitting. Clutch hitting just isn't a talent. There's no such thing as a clutch hitter.

Now Kermie, why am I simply positive you lifted that line from the Baseball Prospectus?

:)

Iwritecode
04-03-2002, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
As far as I could tell, the relievers were making good pitches - it's just that the Sox fielders couldn't do anything with them once they were in play.

Actually, they were throwing a lot more strikes than what the umps were calling. I noticed that just in the last 3 innings. Howry, Porzio, Marte were trying to catch the corners and kept getting everything called a ball. A Seattle pitcher throws in the exact same place and it's a strike. I know at least two other people have mentioned this on this board. The biggest example was Frank's last AB. He didn't get thrown a single strike. Everything was either low or outside. Amazingly though, he K'd looking...

Moses_Scurry
04-03-2002, 04:09 PM
Seattle DID with 116 games last year. They have a lineup stacked with very good base hit hitters. A one run lead in the 7th is about as safe as driving without brakes.

My disappointment is that the Sox only scored 4 runs off them. I was sure that they would torch Moyer!

czalgosz
04-03-2002, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


It's not that we say there's no such thing as clutch hitting. Of course there is clutch hitting. Clutch hitting just isn't a talent. There's no such thing as a clutch hitter.

I've read the article that says that there's no such thing as a clutch hitter, and it fails to convince me. There are guys who hit consistently better with runners on base and/or late in games than they do overall. Period. Just because it isn't the same guys every year doesn't mean that there are no clutch hitters.

In any case, my main point is that the Mariners do it over and over again, getting little flairs over the infield and beating out infield singles to keep rallies alive. At some point you've got to chalk that up to something other than luck.

FarWestChicago
04-03-2002, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz


I've read the article that says that there's no such thing as a clutch hitter, and it fails to convince me. Does this article actually claim all peple perform the same under pressure? If so, I gotta read it. I could use some serious guffaws about now. :smile:

Paulwny
04-03-2002, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz

I've read the article that says that there's no such thing as a clutch hitter, and it fails to convince me. There are guys who hit consistently better with runners on base and/or late in games than they do overall. Period. Just because it isn't the same guys every year doesn't mean that there are no clutch hitters.


I'll bet the article never mentioned Tony Gwynn's numbers from 1990-1999, consistantly higher ba with risp.