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ChiSoxlukes
07-05-2007, 08:21 PM
I just wanted to get your opinions on this. I'm not sure how I feel about it.
Who wants Thome back as our DH next season? His combined stats from the 2nd half last year and the first half this year are as follows:
.274 avg, 24 HR, 68 RBI
He will be 37 years old in August. He is injury prone. He will be making 14 mil a year of which the Sox have to pay 9 mil.
I love the guy but how many of you want a new DH next year? What are the possible options if any? Any type of trades that might work? Don't everybody jump all over me, I just wanted to generate a new topic. Like I said, I'm not suggesting trading him. I just wanted to get your opinions.

Malgar 12
07-05-2007, 08:22 PM
They would be wise to trade him if they can.

JB98
07-05-2007, 08:55 PM
Keep him, but realize that he isn't going to give you 150 games at this point in his career. Have a backup plan at DH, somebody other than Alex Cintron.

In 2005, we didn't know about Thomas' health. So we kept Everett around as an insurance policy, and it sure paid off.

Follow the same philosophy for 2008.

Bulls_Fan
07-05-2007, 09:07 PM
THome is a nice player to have on a ballclub but I could really do without him. His OBP might be high but since THome can't go first to third or score from second on a single the point is moot.

Sox should go in the direction of adding more diverse players who do more than hit home runs. Just my two cents.

veeter
07-05-2007, 09:17 PM
If you could bat him 7th, keep him. Otherwise, trade him.

santo=dorf
07-05-2007, 09:18 PM
Thome does more than just hit home runs.

I wish the Sox would get more players like him who tend to make fewer outs than the average player.

Go ahead and try to find a DH that will match his production for $8 million a year.

oeo
07-05-2007, 09:24 PM
THome is a nice player to have on a ballclub but I could really do without him. His OBP might be high but since THome can't go first to third or score from second on a single the point is moot.

He's a DH, for God's sake. I agree we should be faster, but Thome is not the problem. Our outfield, SS, 2B, 3B (when Crede's playing) need to be quicker. Thome? Not so much.

churlish
07-05-2007, 09:31 PM
Thome does more than just hit home runs.

I wish the Sox would get more players like him who tend to make fewer outs than the average player.

Go ahead and try to find a DH that will match his production for $8 million a year.

The Sox need more guys who can get on base, and I agree, there is very little chance that the Sox could match his production for $8 million. In fact, I worry that Williams will keep his infatuation with Andruw Jones and we'll have another .260 hitter (at a $15 million price tag).

The Sox need some speed and patience.

santo=dorf
07-05-2007, 09:37 PM
The Sox need some speed and patience.
...and the only guys who have both of those traits are Scott Podsednik and maybe Brian Anderson.

Frontman
07-05-2007, 10:53 PM
Yeah, Thome might be slow, but he's 37. These kids who are in their twenties, they can't run? At all?

StillMissOzzie
07-05-2007, 11:15 PM
I think that the Sox should start the 2008 campaign with Thome as DH, and if the Sox fall out of contention again next year, see about trading him then. Besides, I kinda figure that the last year or two of Konerko's deal will be fulfilled as DH for the 2010 and perhaps 2009 seasons.

SMO
:gulp:

chisoxmike
07-05-2007, 11:18 PM
Keep Thome. There are other holes that need to be filled. Not the DH.

DickAllen72
07-05-2007, 11:22 PM
The problem with Thome is he's hurt all the time. According to Hawk tonight his wrist is bothering him again. Hawk also has mentioned recently that most people are unaware of the pain Thome has been playing through for most of the year. He's not getting any younger.

If they can get him to waive his NTC and they can get some good value for him, great. If not, that's fine too but they shouldn't center the offense around him. He'd be fine as strictly a LH DH in a platoon situation.

They shouldn't count on getting more than say 110 games from him next year. Give him more regular rest and maybe he stays healthier throughout the season.

Domeshot17
07-06-2007, 12:10 AM
...and the only guys who have both of those traits are Scott Podsednik and maybe Brian Anderson.

I dont know if either of them has any patience (neither Walk at a good clip) and I don't know if I would say Brian really has speed. I mean he is no clogger, but he also isn't a stolen base threat (but again that could be different if he ever got on base).

I would say if you really want to go speed/defense, move Hall from back up C to Platoon DH and get a good defensive C to spell AJ. It would solve the problem of my grandpa being able to steal on Hall, and while it doesn't do a ton for speed, it gives Thome days off against lefties with a DH whos only ability is hitting lefties. It does make it tough though, carrying 3 Catchers.

JorgeFabregas
07-06-2007, 01:10 AM
I believe patience is being equated with Pitches per Plate Apperance. All those players go deep in counts. I believe Fields will go deep in counts as well. His minor league steal numbers suggest that he should have at least above average speed.

GAsoxfan
07-06-2007, 02:46 AM
I would be OK with the Sox trading Thome if the price was right. However, even if Thome would waive his NTC, I'm not sure how much of a market there would be for him. He can't play first anymore (there goes the NL), and he wouldn't be an upgrade at DH for most contending AL teams. The only teams I see being interested are the Angels and possibly the Mariners (if they want a power upgrade over Vidro).

mcp5185
07-06-2007, 06:35 AM
If Thome were traded, I wouldn't mind seeing the Sox get Adam Dunn. Although he hits for a lower average, in his career his obp is .377. His power numbers would be very similar to what a healthy Jim Thome would put up. Dunn has played in over 160 games the last three years and played in 158 in 2002. He also would add slightly more speed to the middle of the lineup, he has 8 stolen bases so far this year. However, I'm not exactly sure how much money he will command on the market. I would not want to spend much more than the 10.5 million he makes this year.

santo=dorf
07-06-2007, 07:38 AM
I dont know if either of them has any patience (neither Walk at a good clip) and I don't know if I would say Brian really has speed. I mean he is no clogger, but he also isn't a stolen base threat (but again that could be different if he ever got on base).
Brian Anderson's ISOD was (OBP-BA) last season when he was supposedly so terrible was .065. Podsednik's ISOD this year is .081 points. Just for some perspective: In 2004 Scott Podsednik batted .244. and in 2002 Darin Erstad batted .283. They both had a .313 OBP.

I'm not too sure on Anderson speed (which is why he's a maybe) but just because he doesn't steal bases doesn't mean that he's not fast. Carlos Lee and Adam Dunn steal bases from time to time too.

SBSoxFan
07-06-2007, 09:38 AM
If Thome were traded, I wouldn't mind seeing the Sox get Adam Dunn. Although he hits for a lower average, in his career his obp is .377. His power numbers would be very similar to what a healthy Jim Thome would put up. Dunn has played in over 160 games the last three years and played in 158 in 2002. He also would add slightly more speed to the middle of the lineup, he has 8 stolen bases so far this year. However, I'm not exactly sure how much money he will command on the market. I would not want to spend much more than the 10.5 million he makes this year.

I think Dunn would have him beat in strikeouts though!

My main concern with Thome is that he's in the wrong division. Too many good lefties in the AL Central for a DH who doesn't hit lefties very well.

lostfan
07-06-2007, 09:39 AM
Brian Anderson's ISOD was (OBP-BA) last season when he was supposedly so terrible was .065. Podsednik's ISOD this year is .081 points. Just for some perspective: In 2004 Scott Podsednik batted .244. and in 2002 Darin Erstad batted .283. They both had a .313 OBP.

I'm not too sure on Anderson speed (which is why he's a maybe) but just because he doesn't steal bases doesn't mean that he's not fast. Carlos Lee and Adam Dunn steal bases from time to time too.
From watching him, I'd say Anderson's speed is above average, but not great. All that range he has in the outfield, a lot of it is instinct but you have to chalk at least some of that to speed. I'll assume that we would've seen more productive baserunning from him if he was hitting better.

lostfan
07-06-2007, 09:41 AM
I think Dunn would have him beat in strikeouts though!

My main concern with Thome is that he's in the wrong division. Too many good lefties in the AL Central for a DH who doesn't hit lefties very well.
Last year I remember watching a prime-time game against the Twins where Santana was pitching, the announcer was hyping up that AB because I think the bases were juiced. He was saying "Here we are, power vs. power." Meanwhile I'm thinking, who is he kidding? Thome's gonna strike out... Santana owns him. Lo and behold, he chased a high fastball and killed the rally. That drives me nuts.

santo=dorf
07-06-2007, 10:04 AM
Last year I remember watching a prime-time game against the Twins where Santana was pitching, the announcer was hyping up that AB because I think the bases were juiced. He was saying "Here we are, power vs. power." Meanwhile I'm thinking, who is he kidding? Thome's gonna strike out... Santana owns him. Lo and behold, he chased a high fastball and killed the rally. That drives me nuts.
Did you also forget the two home runs he had against him last year as well?

For current Sox players that have faced Santana more than once in their careers, here are the best two lines against him:
.154/.267/.500 .767 OPS
.294/.333/.382 .715 OPS

That first line is Thome's, the second one is Pablo's.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6441/batvspit;_ylt=Ap3HmycSxKEVMBtsum9Mj3eFCLcF?year=ca reer&type=Pitching

GAsoxfan
07-06-2007, 10:05 AM
I think Dunn would have him beat in strikeouts though!


Perhaps, but can he maintain Thome's level of "excellence" in that department?

Thome is fourth all time on the strikeout list and charging hard for third. That level of production is hard to maintain.

lostfan
07-06-2007, 10:12 AM
Did you also forget the two home runs he had against him last year as well?

For current Sox players that have faced Santana more than once in their careers, here are the best two lines against him:
.154/.267/.500 .767 OPS
.294/.333/.382 .715 OPS

That first line is Thome's, the second one is Pablo's.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6441/batvspit;_ylt=Ap3HmycSxKEVMBtsum9Mj3eFCLcF?year=ca reer&type=Pitching
Huh? I forgot? No, of course Thome hits HRs, but he's struck out against Santana almost 4 times as often. Nearly half his ABs. That's ownage.

santo=dorf
07-06-2007, 10:32 AM
Huh? I forgot? No, of course Thome hits HRs, but he's struck out against Santana almost 4 times as often. Nearly half his ABs. That's ownage.
...and he still has the best success against Santana more than anyone on the Sox.
Lefties own a career .640 OPS against him. So if Thome has an OPS 127 points higher than the career average, how exactly is that "ownage?" :?:

lostfan
07-06-2007, 11:18 AM
...and he still has the best success against Santana more than anyone on the Sox.
Lefties own a career .640 OPS against him. So if Thome has an OPS 127 points higher than the career average, how exactly is that "ownage?" :?:
Just because he gets owned slightly less than everybody else against Santana doesn't mean he isn't still owned. I mean if I'm Santana, I'm feeling pretty good about the fact that one of the better hitters in the history of the game looks like a complete fool when he faces me, even if it's easier for me to do it to everyone else.

PatK
07-06-2007, 11:44 AM
Just because he gets owned slightly less than everybody else against Santana doesn't mean he isn't still owned.

Actually, it does.

If he's got the best numbers against and is "owned", what does that make the rest of the Sox. Super owned? Totally owned? Radically owned?

I'm getting sick of the term "owned" being overused.

And everyone knows, the correct spelling is PWN3D!

lostfan
07-06-2007, 12:00 PM
Actually, it does.

If he's got the best numbers against and is "owned", what does that make the rest of the Sox. Super owned? Totally owned? Radically owned?

I'm getting sick of the term "owned" being overused.

And everyone knows, the correct spelling is PWN3D!
It's PWNT ftw :smile:

And yeah, the Sox tend to be absolutely pathetic against Santana... that's no secret. If Thome's mediocrity is the "best" then sure, I guess it's good in that context... but in the proper context, it is what it is. Mediocre, and that OPS is actually inflated by his SLG% as OPS tends to be for power hitters. Everything below that ranges from bad to pathetic.

Noneck
07-06-2007, 12:12 PM
Thome is an aging, injury prone platoon DH. If the Sox are paying him 8m, I think that money could be better spent. But it will be very difficult to find a team that the Sox will be able to give him to. Only a AL team that has money to burn and is in the hunt this year will take him. (and of course he has to agree because he has a NTC)

Sox
07-07-2007, 11:08 AM
Does Thomes bat always slip out of his hands like that? Not once but twice. Watching the highlights from yesterdays Sox/Twinkies game brought that question to mind.

The Dude
07-07-2007, 01:10 PM
Thome does more than just hit home runs.

I wish the Sox would get more players like him who tend to make fewer outs than the average player.

Go ahead and try to find a DH that will match his production for $8 million a year.

Exactly! Who the hell is gonna provide that spot in the order? Our offense was a lot worse when he was on the DL. I agree that he is an injury risk but when he is healthy, he will do two things. He will take a LOT of pitches, walk a lot, hit a lot of home runs and strike out a lot. But the thing that people don't take into consideration with the K's is that Thome usually gets the count to a 3-2 or 2-2 before striking out. He isn't one of your typical strike outs ona 0-2 or 1-2 count. Point is at 9 mil and at 37, he can play several more seasons. He is also a model teammate and probably one of the few guys who actually cares about what is going on.
To the starter of this thread, I do NOT want Thome gone. Dye, yes.