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Lip Man 1
07-04-2007, 12:11 AM
Ozzie had a lot to say on a number of subjects this evening to Mark Gonzales of the Tribune:

"This is not the Instructional League. This is a game to win. If he is not playing well, I will put somebody else out there."–on Jerry Owens

"I know they're hungry about pitching (meaning baseball in general), but there won't be too many people (out of the Sox bullpen) that have a job next year. With the kind of arms we have, I don't think we should be struggling the way we do as a bullpen, no way."– on the bullpen.

"He's unreliable, there's no doubt. Now he has a different injury. It's not his legs, now it's [his] side. It's important for a ballclub to have a guy like him. But when you can't count on a guy day in and day out, it makes it hard."– on Scott Podsednik.

My conclusions:

1. Ozzie still thinks the Sox have a shot and will continue to 'play to win.'

2. Ozzie apparently doesn't think a number of current Sox bullpen guys will be in the bigs next season.

3. Nice knowing you Pods and thanks for what you did in 2005.

Lip

TDog
07-04-2007, 02:54 AM
...
2. Ozzie apparently doesn't think a number of current Sox bullpen guys will be in the bigs next season. ...

I'm looking at Jenks, Thornton, Logan returning with the Sox and MacDougal at least pitching somewhere. There are worse relievers kicking around the majors. Masset probably has a future in the organization even if he isn't ready this year. Even if Thornton has outstayed his welcome on the Sox, he has had enough success as a southpaw reliever that someone will want him in the pen.

Chicken Dinner
07-04-2007, 07:15 AM
Is Ozzie our next GM?

soxfanreggie
07-04-2007, 11:57 AM
I don't think Ozzie will ever be a GM. We have seen his outbursts at times, and I don't think JR would want those headaches. Coaches are one thing, but administrators are anoter.

Lip Man 1
07-04-2007, 12:09 PM
I've always been very curious as to how much influence Ozzie has on Kenny and the organization.

It just appears to me that there's been a 'disconnect' at times between the way Ozzie said he wants his team to play the game and the actual team Kenny has given him.

Lip

goon
07-04-2007, 01:31 PM
Masset probably has a future in the organization even if he isn't ready this year.


Maybe, but I think unless Gio or Floyd come up next year, he will probably be a starter. It will take a lot for Jenks to be kicked out of the closer role.

RowanDye
07-04-2007, 02:29 PM
Ozzie had a lot to say on a number of subjects this evening to Mark Gonzales of the Tribune:

"This is not the Instructional League. This is a game to win. If he is not playing well, I will put somebody else out there."–on Jerry Owens
Lip

I want to win too, but not at the expense of playing stopgap hacks like Mack and Cintron over young guys that need major league experience. I don't like Ozzie's attitude towards young players at all, and if we need to go through a rebuilding phase obviously Ozzie is not the guy to lead it.

Chris Young, who some have said is the OF best prospect to come through our organization in years, was plugged into the lineup in AZ and now has ~275 ABs this year. He is not really "playing well" but he's being given an opportunity to learn so that in the future he will play well. Who knows what would have happened if BA or Sweeney had been given the same chance this year, with Ozzie maybe we never will know.



"I know they're hungry about pitching (meaning baseball in general), but there won't be too many people (out of the Sox bullpen) that have a job next year. With the kind of arms we have, I don't think we should be struggling the way we do as a bullpen, no way."– on the bullpen.

2. Ozzie apparently doesn't think a number of current Sox bullpen guys will be in the bigs next season.
Lip

This seems contradictory. If the "kind of arms" we have are so good, then don't you think someone will give them shot next year?

viagracat
07-04-2007, 04:13 PM
Yeah, I think Pods' days are numbered with the Sox. This rib cage injury was the last straw.

TDog
07-04-2007, 04:22 PM
...
This seems contradictory. If the "kind of arms" we have are so good, then don't you think someone will give them shot next year?

I read that as a frustrated negative comment on the character of the pitchers. Realistically, the way to build a great bullpen is to put together a group of great, young arms. Young pitchers with nasty stuff can be more difficult to hit than proven veterans who have had their ups and downs with other teams. Such veterans can have great seasons, but you're never sure when.

Todd Van Poppel, once believed to have superstar starter potential, bounced around until he ended until he wound up in the Cubs bullpen. He had a career-best ERA of 2.52 in 59 games 10 years after he debuted with Oakland as a starter. The Cubs were paying him $850,000, but Van Poppel scored big (for a reliever by 2002 standards) as a free agent, signing for $2 million with the Rangers. He had an ERA of 5.45 in 2002 and had an ERA of 8.53 in 2003 when Texas released him. Often great bullpens, in an age of 30 big league teams and free agency, have pitchers who have their one or two great seasons that contrast from the rest of their careers. And bad bullpens have pitchers who look like they can pitch, have been pitching well recently but just can't get outs when they need to. On the other hand, bring up someone with an arm like Bobby Jenks who hitters haven't had an opportunity to figure out, and you just might win the World Series.

Guillen's contradictory comment reflects frustration that his pitchers seem to have the ability to do a lot better than they are.

JB98
07-04-2007, 05:57 PM
I want to win too, but not at the expense of playing stopgap hacks like Mack and Cintron over young guys that need major league experience. I don't like Ozzie's attitude towards young players at all, and if we need to go through a rebuilding phase obviously Ozzie is not the guy to lead it.

Chris Young, who some have said is the OF best prospect to come through our organization in years, was plugged into the lineup in AZ and now has ~275 ABs this year. He is not really "playing well" but he's being given an opportunity to learn so that in the future he will play well. Who knows what would have happened if BA or Sweeney had been given the same chance this year, with Ozzie maybe we never will know.

Fields and Danks are getting an extended chance. Neither BA nor Sweeney did enough to stay in the lineup during their previous opportunities.

Fields isn't really "playing well" either, but he's doing enough to stay in the lineup.

Frater Perdurabo
07-05-2007, 11:33 AM
Fields and Danks are getting an extended chance. Neither BA nor Sweeney did enough to stay in the lineup during their previous opportunities.

Fields isn't really "playing well" either, but he's doing enough to stay in the lineup.

What are Cintron and Mackowiak doing to remain in the lineup? Telling Ozzie that they have embarassing photos of him?
:?:

Madvora
07-05-2007, 11:43 AM
Who knows what would have happened if BA or Sweeney had been given the same chance this year, with Ozzie maybe we never will know.
Anderson? He's been given his shot already. He has done nothing proving that he should stay here. He has done nothing in the minors that says he should be called back up.

JB98
07-05-2007, 11:46 AM
What are Cintron and Mackowiak doing to remain in the lineup? Telling Ozzie that they have embarassing photos of him?
:?:

Cintron is playing everyday? That's news to me. Seriously Frater, are you watching the games?

Gonzalez is starting to take playing time away from Mackowiak. Even still, Rob has more RBIs than Iguchi this year, and only four fewer RBIs than AJ, who is hitting in a prime RBI position in the batting order.

Go ahead and keep scapegoating Mackowiak people.

soxtalker
07-05-2007, 11:58 AM
What are Cintron and Mackowiak doing to remain in the lineup? Telling Ozzie that they have embarassing photos of him?
:?:

I would think that either of these guys could be included in trades. Playing them is a better way to display them for scouts than riding the bench.

And what's the alternative, if you don't play them? Sure, they could bring up some players from the minors, but those players probably get more playing time down there.

eriqjaffe
07-05-2007, 12:03 PM
Even still, Rob has more RBIs than Iguchi this year, and only four fewer RBIs than AJ, who is hitting in a prime RBI position in the batting order.There isn't a prime RBI position in the Sox batting order, as that implies there are people on base to drive in.

JB98
07-05-2007, 12:10 PM
There isn't a prime RBI position in the Sox batting order, as that implies there are people on base to drive in.

Just Sunday, AJ had bases loaded with one out in the first inning and first and third with one out in the third inning. He didn't produce a single run in either of those two ABs.

Earlier in the season, guys weren't getting on base. Lately, I think we've had our fair share of baserunners. We just aren't getting enough production.

How many bases loaded situations have we had this year that have produced zero or one run? Tons. How about second-and-third situations? First-and-third situations? We've had chances. We're just not getting it done. And it isn't just Mackowiak and Cintron. It's AJ, Dye, Iguchi and Uribe too. And even Thome and Konerko have not been as good as they should be, although both have been better as of late.

RowanDye
07-05-2007, 12:36 PM
Fields and Danks are getting an extended chance. Neither BA nor Sweeney did enough to stay in the lineup during their previous opportunities.

Fields isn't really "playing well" either, but he's doing enough to stay in the lineup.

Just Sunday, AJ had bases loaded with one out in the first inning and first and third with one out in the third inning. He didn't produce a single run in either of those two ABs.

Earlier in the season, guys weren't getting on base. Lately, I think we've had our fair share of baserunners. We just aren't getting enough production.

How many bases loaded situations have we had this year that have produced zero or one run? Tons. How about second-and-third situations? First-and-third situations? We've had chances. We're just not getting it done. And it isn't just Mackowiak and Cintron. It's AJ, Dye, Iguchi and Uribe too. And even Thome and Konerko have not been as good as they should be, although both have been better as of late.

At this point in time I really don't care what Mackowiak and Cintron are doing!

They have both proven that they are barely good enough to be utility players, let alone starters. At least some of our prospects still have a chance.

I like that Owens is getting a shot, but Ozzie already made negative comments about him in the media too.

If Ozzie really cares about winning he needs to take a longer view about this team.

We need to start building for the future, and if Ozzie doesn't want to do it then get someone else who will.

nsolo
07-05-2007, 04:01 PM
At this point in time I really don't care what Mackowiak and Cintron are doing!

They have both proven that they are barely good enough to be utility players, let alone starters. At least some of our prospects still have a chance.

I like that Owens is getting a shot, but Ozzie already made negative comments about him in the media too.

If Ozzie really cares about winning he needs to take a longer view about this team.

We need to start building for the future, and if Ozzie doesn't want to do it then get someone else who will.

That may happen, or not. I have no real opinion in the possibility, but one thing is certain. The day Ozzie is let go, there will be a tremendous load of dirty laundry to be aired. Ozzie won't leave quietly. His departing remarks will be the main attraction, not his replacement. It's been years since the Sox have had a field manager with any previous managerial experience. Knowing this, be afraid of the devil you don't know.

RowanDye
07-05-2007, 04:13 PM
That may happen, or not. I have no real opinion in the possibility, but one thing is certain. The day Ozzie is let go, there will be a tremendous load of dirty laundry to be aired. Ozzie won't leave quietly. His departing remarks will be the main attraction, not his replacement. It's been years since the Sox have had a field manager with any previous managerial experience. Knowing this, be afraid of the devil you don't know.

I love Ozzie. I want him to manage the Sox for a long time.

I just hope he has enough patience to ride out the inevitable bumps in the road if we re-tool and rely on some young players.

balaspa
07-05-2007, 04:14 PM
I'm glad that someone still thinks they have a chance. For a while I was really starting to worry about Ozzie. It looked like he and the rest of the team were just going to give up. It has been painful to watch games this season. Heck, I've started paying more attention to the minor league teams in the area.

At the same time, I hate to see Pods go. Of course, if he could manage to stay healthy, I would hate it a lot less.


Mod edit: Advertise your minor league baseball board someplace else.

Nellie_Fox
07-06-2007, 12:35 AM
I hate to see Pods go. Of course, if he could manage to stay healthy, I would hate it a lot less.
Huh?

Tragg
07-06-2007, 12:41 AM
Fields and Danks are getting an extended chance. Neither BA nor Sweeney did enough to stay in the lineup during their previous opportunities That standard "playing well enought to stay" isn't consistently applied by Ozzie.
Also, it a sensible standard if you're a contender. We aren't. As such, a more sensible goal, imo, is player development. I read some quotes today where it sounds like Williams will push the issue and Anderson and Sweeney will be playing outfield soon enough. How Ozzie reacts and how he develops those players will be interesting to see.

RockJock07
07-06-2007, 01:16 AM
Everyone trashes the Sox' prospects but Sweeney, Fields, Owens and BA need more at bats. I hope when rosters expand that Sweeney gets to play 3-4 times a week.