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jabrch
07-03-2007, 12:21 AM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=84233

I don't see many people defending Mark.

Chisox003
07-03-2007, 04:36 AM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=84233

I don't see many people defending Mark.
3-7 record, 6.50 ERA in the second half, 36 HRs given up, a .305 average against, and 13 losses for the year...how does that equal opening day starter?

This thread was probably completely unnecessary, but who really knows for sure.

Viva Medias B's
07-03-2007, 06:58 AM
That does allude to a good point. Last year during the second half when we were falling out of the race, there were people who couldn't wait to run Buehrle out of town. Some seemed like they would have personally driven Buehrle to St. Louis.

itsnotrequired
07-03-2007, 07:06 AM
3-7 record, 6.50 ERA in the second half, 36 HRs given up, a .305 average against, and 13 losses for the year...how does that equal opening day starter?

Don't forget the forgettable Spring Training either.

balke
07-03-2007, 07:27 AM
I don't think the Mods like dumb threads being dug up for little to no reason.

That thread means nothing because it was about Mark being #3 in the rotation, and not the ace, not about getting rid of him. To start the season, Mark (Though I thought should've kept the ace role based on career) did not earn the ace role in the previous season. If anything the demotion was motivational.

I would hate to face a team in the division that had Mark Buehrle pitching in the 3-spot. I hope the set down motivates him to win the ace spot back, and I really hope Contreras and Garland make that tough for him to do.

duke of dorwood
07-03-2007, 07:55 AM
Even Billy pierce had an off year

jabrch
07-03-2007, 08:32 AM
I don't think the Mods like dumb threads being dug up for little to no reason.

That thread means nothing because it was about Mark being #3 in the rotation, and not the ace, not about getting rid of him. To start the season, Mark (Though I thought should've kept the ace role based on career) did not earn the ace role in the previous season. If anything the demotion was motivational.

I leave moderating to Mods, but someone correct me if I misunderstood the policy. As I understand it, you aren't supposed to bring back old threads, but the apprpriate thing to do is link to them if you want. (plese mods - correct me if understanding is wrong.)

Balke, I didn't spend a lot of time digging, but I can get a bunch of threads where some of the same people who are now almost appear to be more of Mark Buehrle fans than Sox fans were pushing to dump him as soon as possible.

My point, simply, is that many of these people threatening to not renew, to not come, to put up signs, whatever, were the same ones bashing Mark just a few months ago.

I wouldn't give a guy 4 years guaranteed with no trade who was so miserable just a few months ago that much of our fanbase wanted him gone. I'm surprised so many people are so in favor of that.

My gut feeling is that this is the anti-management bias of many Sox fans and the particular anti KW or anti JR stuff we see here and in the media. If the media chose to spin this differently, I think many of the sheeple would have a different view on this.

Law11
07-03-2007, 08:42 AM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=84233

I don't see many people defending Mark.

Are you on some kind of mission or something.. Out to prove a point?
I for one just chalked it up to a bad year. Having actually met him at
Ruffled Feathers in lemont he's just a real good guy.

As for people doubting him, yeh folks doubted him but fans are fickle, this is news to you?

Brian26
07-03-2007, 08:44 AM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=84233

I don't see many people defending Mark.

I think you could pull up a lot of threads from the past and make some people here look really stupid, especially before the 2005 season.

I remember that I was extremely disappointed that Ozzie didn't let Buehrle start on Opening Day to keep his streak going.

Kilroy
07-03-2007, 08:49 AM
My gut feeling is that this is the anti-management bias of many Sox fans and the particular anti KW or anti JR stuff we see here and in the media. If the media chose to spin this differently, I think many of the sheeple would have a different view on this.

I have no anti-management bias, certainly no anti-JR.

I have a bit of an anti-KW bias, but it's stupid **** like this that makes me have that. From Todd Ritchie to how he uncerimoniously handled Frank, the flipping tables making an ass of himself, getting Sandy Alomar Jr in trades 11 or 12 times, I think the guy's a bonehead on quite a few things.

Passing a 20-25% discount (which will probably increase to 35-40% over the 4 years) on a top of the rotation left handed starter because of a no trade clause is just assinine.

And I couldn't give a rats ass how the media spins it.

AZChiSoxFan
07-03-2007, 09:12 AM
I have no anti-management bias, certainly no anti-JR.

I have a bit of an anti-KW bias, but it's stupid **** like this that makes me have that. From Todd Ritchie to how he uncerimoniously handled Frank, the flipping tables making an ass of himself, getting Sandy Alomar Jr in trades 11 or 12 times, I think the guy's a bonehead on quite a few things.

Passing a 20-25% discount (which will probably increase to 35-40% over the 4 years) on a top of the rotation left handed starter because of a no trade clause is just assinine.

And I couldn't give a rats ass how the media spins it.

Yah, what he said!!!

salty99
07-03-2007, 09:37 AM
Where was I this spring? I was at home in Plainfield and at work in Aurora. I could also be seen down in Florida for vacation and at various spots around Illinois.

Brian26
07-03-2007, 09:44 AM
Where was I this spring? I was at home in Plainfield and at work in Aurora. I could also be seen down in Florida for vacation and at various spots around Illinois.

You were in Lombard with me one Saturday too.

:thumbsup:

:hawk
"They've got my money in Lombard."

Jjav829
07-03-2007, 10:01 AM
Well, not from that thread, but I said this is in a March thread about Buehrle contract talks... (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1503288&highlight=buehrle#post1503288)

It's a valid concern, but I don't think that's reason to think that Buehrle is done being a high quality starting pitcher. I think last season was a result of all the innings Buehrle has thrown finally catching up.

While I've disliked the Braves comparisons, I do think there's a valid one here involving Buehrle. You look at a guy like Tom Glavine. He had a similar stretch during his mid-20's where he was throwing a ton of innings. From 1990 to 1993, Glavine's IP totals were 214, 246, 225 and 239. During that time Glavine had three 20 win seasons, two sub-3 ERA seasons and one season slightly above 3. Then in 94, the innings pitched kind of caught up to him. He made only 25 starts and threw only 165 innings (due to the strike), but had a 3.97 ERA. Obviously Buehrle's numbers aren't as good as Glavine's, but it was a similar type situation where the high innings early in his career kind of caught up to him (of course, who knows if Glavine's role in the negotiatons between the players and union weighed on him mentally). But Glavine bounced back and went on to have 4 more season with ERAs under 3 or just slightly over 3. I fully expect Buehrle to have the same kind of bounce-back this season.

The reasoning that Buehrle's 2nd half cost him the Opening Day start doesn't make sense. Contreras was almost as bad in the 2nd half. Contreras has really lived off two good halves (2nd in 2005, first in 2006). Aside from that, he's never looked anything like an Opening Day quality starter.

But what does it matter? Just because people didn't get too outraged over Buehrle being the #3, does that mean they can't now want Buehrle to stay?

It's Dankerific
07-03-2007, 03:08 PM
I wasnt a member of the website at the time. But the moment they said that Mark was working out in the offseason for the first time would have been the moment i started the "lets resign beuhrle early" campaign. if lilly can get paid, anyone who can throw left can get paid. i even have no problem if mark can't live up to the contract (which at 14 million would be hard to do) but major league players get paid for past performance more so than future performance.

Nellie_Fox
07-03-2007, 03:14 PM
I leave moderating to Mods, but someone correct me if I misunderstood the policy. As I understand it, you aren't supposed to bring back old threads, but the apprpriate thing to do is link to them if you want. (plese mods - correct me if understanding is wrong.)Nope, you are correct. Resurrecting ancient threads is a no-no; mentioning old ones, with a link for those who want to go look at it, is fine.

hose
07-03-2007, 03:34 PM
You could say the same thing about Dye this year and see how many people are defending him.

Dye missed having his career year by one year. Burls otoh is having a decent year in the final year of his contract.

hose
07-03-2007, 03:42 PM
I leave moderating to Mods, but someone correct me if I misunderstood the policy. As I understand it, you aren't supposed to bring back old threads, but the apprpriate thing to do is link to them if you want. (plese mods - correct me if understanding is wrong.)


I wonder if West or George would allow legal representation to defend oneself from a possible banning? If so I would like to have Joey the Clown's lawyer plead my case if needed.

Any lawyer that wears pink into court has got to be pretty confident. I could see Daver tell the lawyer ...."I'll give you a 20 second head start......":redneck

areilly
07-03-2007, 04:46 PM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=84233

I don't see many people defending Mark.

This kind of stunt is just lame beyond belief and I was wondering how long it would take someone to pull this. What reason did we have for defending him AT THE TIME? He was coming off a simply awful second half AT THE TIME. His most recent outings were shaky at best AT THE TIME. He was getting shelled on a regular basis AT THE TIME. We didn't know if he was down or out AT THE TIME. We didn't want to be stuck with what was AT THE TIME shaping up to be a pitcher past his peak.

Do you see a pattern here? AT THE TIME safe looked like a better option than sorry.

To answer the thread title, I (like most people around here) was hoping he would bounce back from last year. And, also like most people around here, I thought #3 was about where he belonged. Have things changed considerably? Yes. Has MB proved me wrong? Absolutely, and I'm glad he did. Do I want the Sox to keep him for the rumored 4/56 + NTC? You better believe it.

So what's your point with this thread? To be condescending? To say you told us so? If so, congratulations. Shame on me for thinking MB's second half of last year was anything but a steaming pile of ****.

kobo
07-03-2007, 05:07 PM
This kind of stunt is just lame beyond belief and I was wondering how long it would take someone to pull this. What reason did we have for defending him AT THE TIME? He was coming off a simply awful second half AT THE TIME. His most recent outings were shaky at best AT THE TIME. He was getting shelled on a regular basis AT THE TIME. We didn't know if he was down or out AT THE TIME. We didn't want to be stuck with what was AT THE TIME shaping up to be a pitcher past his peak.

Do you see a pattern here? AT THE TIME safe looked like a better option than sorry.

To answer the thread title, I (like most people around here) was hoping he would bounce back from last year. And, also like most people around here, I thought #3 was about where he belonged. Have things changed considerably? Yes. Has MB proved me wrong? Absolutely, and I'm glad he did. Do I want the Sox to keep him for the rumored 4/56 + NTC? You better believe it.

So what's your point with this thread? To be condescending? To say you told us so? If so, congratulations. Shame on me for thinking MB's second half of last year was anything but a steaming pile of ****.
:thumbsup: Nice post.

MISoxfan
07-04-2007, 03:04 PM
Here I am defending Buehrle in August of '06

Let's not face it. Buehrle did not pitch out of his mind last season. He had his best season ever, but only slightly. He did not pitch far from his career norms.

Let's not face it. Freddy did not pitch out of his mind last season. His ERA was a whole .14 lower than his career AVERAGE. He had his third or fourth best season last season.

The jury is still out on Cotts and Garland. Both could have easily been breakout seasons, Cotts doesn't have numbers as good this season, but he also isn't surrounded by the great pitching that he had last season. Garland struggled to start with, but I think his last 9 outings have shown that he capable of another '05. Politte and Hermanson, yeah they had crazy seasons, but that's it.

August '06 again

Yes his career numbers carry much more weight than his last 5 starts. And have you seen how Thomas has been hitting lately?


February '07

nothing says he will be capable of giving 6 good innings?

This says he is
4-1 4.21 ERA
16-8 3.29
19-12 3.58
14-14 4.14
16-10 3.89
16-8 3.12
9-6 4.02

This says he isn't
3-7 6.44


Of course nothing says he will give us 6 good innings a game for certain, nothing says that about Johan Santana either, but I like the odds on both.

Is anyone in that thread you linked even saying anything bad about Buehrle? If they are is it even anyone who is arguing with you now? I doubt it.