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thomas35forever
07-02-2007, 10:06 PM
:puking::chunks
Go pack your bags, Mark. This may be all you get this year.

spiffie
07-02-2007, 10:06 PM
Have fun wherever you end up Mark. May you get better results than you got tonight.

It's Time
07-02-2007, 10:07 PM
Hey, back at home and another loss. I'd say the pen sucks but that is being kind.:mad:

Patrick134
07-02-2007, 10:07 PM
Gooch's strikeout was the 10th K. Do we get pizza ?

JB98
07-02-2007, 10:07 PM
Sox are now 3-12 in their last 15 home games.

No wonder I don't want to go to the park anymore this year. Back to the usual horse****.

soxwon
07-02-2007, 10:07 PM
Poor Mark- Bullpen blows again.
Sox back to Sucking!!!
I wish this year would end.

santo=dorf
07-02-2007, 10:08 PM
Don't worry Mark, Bukvich won't be here next season, and Ozzie will be gone before your 4 year contract expires.

SoxSpeed22
07-02-2007, 10:08 PM
Allowed 5 runs in the last 2 innings to blow the game, did anyone really expect different?

Jerome
07-02-2007, 10:08 PM
what a spineless sack of **** this team is, plus a whole lot of other stuff that's already been said numerous times this year. Also, great job All Star Jenks :rolleyes:

It will be a relief not to care about sports for the rest of the summer until Bears starts up. And good luck Mark wherever you wind up.

Patrick134
07-02-2007, 10:08 PM
Poor Mark- Bullpen blows again.
Sox back to Sucking!!!
I wish this year would end.


I wouldn't call winning 6 of 8 sucking. The offense still coming around nicely.

wassagstdu
07-02-2007, 10:08 PM
Same old same old. Pathetic.

oeo
07-02-2007, 10:08 PM
Don't worry Mark, Bukvich won't be here next season, and Ozzie will be gone before your 4 year contract expires.

I'd be willing to bet Ozzie is a large reason he wants to stay.

spiffie
07-02-2007, 10:08 PM
Poor Mark- Bullpen blows again.
Sox back to Sucking!!!
I wish this year would end.
They just need a REALLY stirring sermon from Da Reverand to get things right.

FloridaSox
07-02-2007, 10:09 PM
The game defined our season in a nutshell.

Tragg
07-02-2007, 10:09 PM
I know that anyone on this staff is perfectly capable of blowing a game out of the pen (including buckholz who had been pitching well) but is it necessary to pitch jenks 3 games in a row in a lost season, particularly when he hasn't had a K in 5 or 6 games.

This offense is in a coma. Thankfully the swingers went deep, but 7 hits - ugh.

It's really too bad that we are such a bad team because we've had an incredibly easy schedule for a 6 week period....could have really piled up some Ws.

Chicken Dinner
07-02-2007, 10:09 PM
You can take Bukvich with you Mark. :mad:

santo=dorf
07-02-2007, 10:09 PM
I'd be willing to bet Ozzie is a large reason he wants to stay.
Only if Ozzie doesn't run Garland out of town for not beaning someone when he asks him to.

StillMissOzzie
07-02-2007, 10:09 PM
I don't know about the last 7 games, but our regular bullpen has reported for duty again. :angry:

SMO
:angry::whiner::mad:

tebman
07-02-2007, 10:09 PM
Maybe trading Mark is the right thing to do. The rest of this team sure doesn't know how the hell to do something right.

I don't think I've been this upset over a loss in years. Puke indeed.

JB98
07-02-2007, 10:10 PM
I wouldn't call winning 6 of 8 sucking. The offense still coming around nicely.

Winning six of eight isn't sucking, but 35-44 sure sucks.

It's Time
07-02-2007, 10:10 PM
Corey Patterson goes 4-4. Corey ****ING Patterson! Wow! Just wow!

CLR01
07-02-2007, 10:10 PM
10 strikeouts. Free pizza for everyone. :bandance: They really cranked up the wind machine in the second half of the game.

soltrain21
07-02-2007, 10:11 PM
I wouldn't call winning 6 of 8 sucking. The offense still coming around nicely.


Stop it already, please.

It's Time
07-02-2007, 10:11 PM
You can take pukavich with you Mark. :mad:

Fixed!

Chicken Dinner
07-02-2007, 10:11 PM
Corey Patterson goes 4-4. Corey ****ING Patterson! Wow! Just wow!

Doesn't everyone know he can't lay off the high heat?

thomas35forever
07-02-2007, 10:12 PM
Corey Patterson goes 4-4. Corey ****ING Patterson! Wow! Just wow!
He's actually gotten better ever since he moved out of The Urinal. You shouldn't be too surprised.

Patrick134
07-02-2007, 10:12 PM
People really forget how important 2005 Cotts and Politte really were, because holds are a lame stat.

oeo
07-02-2007, 10:12 PM
Only if Ozzie doesn't run Garland out of town for not beaning someone when he asks him to.

:?:

Sean Tracey and Jon Garland are comparable, how?

Viva Medias B's
07-02-2007, 10:13 PM
Ranger ought to be interesting tonight.

santo=dorf
07-02-2007, 10:13 PM
If only Pods, Erstad, and Crede were healthy. We'd be right in the thick of things!

How does Logan, death on lefties, not start the 9th? Why pitch to Millar with one out and an open base? Completely stupid.

alohafri
07-02-2007, 10:13 PM
Now I get it! Kenny really likes Buehrle and doesn't want him to have more games blown by this poor excuse of a bullpen anymore.

Nice All-Star showing Jenks!

Tragg
07-02-2007, 10:13 PM
Corey Patterson goes 4-4. Corey ****ING Patterson! Wow! Just wow!

Nice, cheap pick up of a top prospect who was unreasonably thrown under the bus by his original team.

Ahem.

Still, he isn't 4/4 good.

nsolo
07-02-2007, 10:13 PM
The Baltimore Orioles are so bad...... so very bad....that they were described as a team in "complete disarray" by various sports journalists. Yet, Baltimore O's, meet the ChiSox bullpen.

Will it ever stop? Will we ever see anyone take the blame? Will someone please make it stop?????????????

NDSox12
07-02-2007, 10:14 PM
He's actually gotten better ever since he moved out of The Urinal. You shouldn't be too surprised.

He had a good year last year, but he's been absolutely terrible this season... until tonight.

nccwsfan
07-02-2007, 10:14 PM
Another bad loss....what a shame that the momentum and atmosphere were drowned out by that horrible (again) outing by the bullpen. CWS, please get the Buehrle deal done!

DickAllen72
07-02-2007, 10:14 PM
:angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:: angry::angry:

It's Time
07-02-2007, 10:14 PM
He's actually gotten better ever since he moved out of The Urinal. You shouldn't be too surprised.

Yes, that fine .290 OBP is much better then when he played across town. Anyway, this is just a pathetic loss to a pathetic team.

santo=dorf
07-02-2007, 10:14 PM
:?:

Sean Tracey and Jon Garland are comparable, how?
Go back and watch some tapes of the 2006 season.

Here's a hint:

:ozzie
"If Padilla hits somebody. We gonna do something. IF PADILLA HITS SOMEBODY. WE GONNA DO SOMETHING."

mccoydp
07-02-2007, 10:15 PM
****-ass ending to what could have been a good game tonight.

Once Bukvich came in, I knew the game was blown. Mark, and the team, deserved better than the garbage in the last two innings.

ChiSoxIn06
07-02-2007, 10:15 PM
this team is like an engine...they manage to suck and blow at the same time...amazing.

russ99
07-02-2007, 10:15 PM
Man, that sucked...

If this is the case, It's a shame to have Mark go out like that.

At least Ozzie won't entertain the idea of Bukvich as the right-handed set-up man again. Should be no surprise, Kenny's done nothing to shore up the pen. It's July, dude. Time to make a deal to help the team.

Nice popup with 1 out and a man on third, Paulie. How many millions are the Sox paying you this year? :angry:

santo=dorf
07-02-2007, 10:16 PM
He had a good year last year, but he's been absolutely terrible this season... until tonight.
Last year he went .276/.314/.443

He's a loser.

DrCrawdad
07-02-2007, 10:16 PM
He's actually gotten better ever since he moved out of The Urinal. You shouldn't be too surprised.

Yeah, Korey is hitting all of what .230 now?

Viva Medias B's
07-02-2007, 10:16 PM
Rongey's first caller: Terry from Streamwood says Buehrle should have gone the distance despite throwing 114 pitches when Guillen took him out. He's also going to write a letter to the commissioner to outlaw pitch counts.

PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!

Patrick134
07-02-2007, 10:16 PM
Man, that sucked...

If this is the case, It's a shame to have Mark go out like that.

At least Ozzie won't entertain the idea of Bukvich as the right-handed set-up man again. Should be no surprise, Kenny's done nothing to shore up the pen.


Everybody was thrilled with the pen all of April. It's not Kenny's fault they faltered a bit later.

thomas35forever
07-02-2007, 10:17 PM
Even worse, Chris ****ing Ray strikes out the side to end the game. If that's not pitiful, then what is?

DrCrawdad
07-02-2007, 10:17 PM
The game defined our season in a nutshell.

Tonight though the offense put up 6 runs, at least. The rest of the game followed script.

kittle42
07-02-2007, 10:17 PM
Why are any of you surprised or upset? Losses when the Sox actually were still in any position to contend were much more upsetting than anything at this point of the season.

CLR01
07-02-2007, 10:18 PM
How does Logan, death on lefties, not start the 9th?

Because Jenks is the closer.

JB98
07-02-2007, 10:18 PM
Everybody was thrilled with the pen all of April. It's not Kenny's fault they faltered a bit later.

Faltered a bit?

NDSox12
07-02-2007, 10:19 PM
Everybody was thrilled with the pen all of April. It's not Kenny's fault they faltered a bit later.

It's been almost two months now... how long is he supposed to wait?

It's Time
07-02-2007, 10:19 PM
Why are any of you surprised or upset? Losses when the Sox actually were still in any position to contend were much more upsetting than anything at this point of the season.

Those are the Orioles, not the Indians. You never should blow games that late when you are up 4 in the 8th inning.

Patrick134
07-02-2007, 10:19 PM
It's been almost two months now... how long is he supposed to wait?

Wait for what, you got a magical list of hall of fame relievers on the waiver wire ?

QCIASOXFAN
07-02-2007, 10:19 PM
He's actually gotten better ever since he moved out of The Urinal. You shouldn't be too surprised.
How? Hes hitting .225 and bats last because he sucks so bad.

A. Cavatica
07-02-2007, 10:20 PM
Why are any of you surprised or upset? Losses when the Sox actually were still in any position to contend were much more upsetting than anything at this point of the season.

kittle42 has it exactly right.

:whocares

nsolo
07-02-2007, 10:20 PM
Rongey's first caller: Terry from Streamwood says Buehrle should have gone the distance despite throwing 114 pitches when Guillen took him out. He's also going to write a letter to the commissioner to outlaw pitch counts.

PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!

Better yet, lets outlaw bullpens. All hitters, except ours, would love it.

santo=dorf
07-02-2007, 10:20 PM
Because Jenks is the closer.
So? He's pitched a ton over the week. Jenks can still get the save if someone else records the first out.

kittle42
07-02-2007, 10:20 PM
Those are the Orioles, not the Indians. You never should blow games that late when you are up 4 in the 8th inning.

And we're the White Sox, not the Indians...maybe it can be said that no team should NOT come back against this 'pen!

DC Sox Fan
07-02-2007, 10:20 PM
So glad this masterpiece was televised here in DC!

:chunks

Oldschoolsoxguy
07-02-2007, 10:20 PM
Sorry-assed sons of *****es.This is ****ing pathetic.In a season full of
cub-like performances,they manage to toss in another one.Jeezus
Kenny,start with the hammer already.

ChiSoxIn06
07-02-2007, 10:20 PM
Do you think that if the sox just automatically gave a run to the opposition in each inning after the 6th inning that they would just let us play 6 innings and just simulate the rest of the game with the sox getting 0's and the opposition getting the aforementioned 1 run an inning...we would have a winning record.

CLR01
07-02-2007, 10:20 PM
Faltered a bit?

It is Patrick, just roll with it. :smile:

DrCrawdad
07-02-2007, 10:21 PM
Everybody was thrilled with the pen all of April. It's not Kenny's fault they faltered a bit later.

Did you forget to use teal?

Outside of the first month this bullpen has been worthless, perhaps the worst in MLB.

CHISOXFAN13
07-02-2007, 10:21 PM
Lots of posts blaming the bullpen so I'll throw Fields under the bus since nobody else has.

That error allowed THREE unearned runs to score in the eighth.

****ing pathetic.

thomas35forever
07-02-2007, 10:21 PM
this team is like an engine...they manage to suck and blow at the same time...amazing.
http://www.worldofbubble.com/images/thomas_tank_engine.jpg
"Please don't insult me like that, or I'll get most cross."

Patrick134
07-02-2007, 10:22 PM
It is Patrick, just roll with it. :smile:


Even after a decent past week offensively, the team is still hitting .237. When you stop scoring every game after the third inning, the relievers have to be more than perfect to carry you.

nsolo
07-02-2007, 10:22 PM
Faltered a bit?

It does start with an "F", but isn't spelled the same.

NDSox12
07-02-2007, 10:23 PM
Wait for what, you got a magical list of hall of fame relievers on the waiver wire ?

Actually, I'll agree that there isn't much that can be done at this point.

Viva Medias B's
07-02-2007, 10:23 PM
Sorry-assed sons of *****es.This is ****ing pathetic.In a season full of
cub-like performances,they manage to toss in another one.Jeezus
Kenny,start with the hammer already.

The fans are going to so hammer KW at the Friday night seminar of SoxFest 2008. Meanwhile, John from Rolling Meadows says Jenks' fastball didn't have any giddy on it.

SoxSpeed22
07-02-2007, 10:23 PM
Even worse, Chris ****ing Ray strikes out the side to end the game. If that's not pitiful, then what is?At least Chris Ray is a half-decent closer. Of course facing the vaunted lineup of Uribe, Mackowiak and Iguchi makes him look a lot better.
KW should just do something, I don't really care what, whether it's firing coaches, trading players, calling up Jerry Owens again. Just something.

nccwsfan
07-02-2007, 10:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick134 http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1623688#post1623688)
Everybody was thrilled with the pen all of April. It's not Kenny's fault they faltered a bit later.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NDSox12 http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1623694#post1623694)
It's been almost two months now... how long is he supposed to wait?


Wait for what, you got a magical list of hall of fame relievers on the waiver wire ?

That's the sad reality. Everyone knows this bullpen sucks, and there's nothing that can be done about it. We just have to sit back and watch this for another 83 games....:gulp:

DickAllen72
07-02-2007, 10:24 PM
:angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:

thomas35forever
07-02-2007, 10:24 PM
Why are you throwing Ozzie under the bus for bringing in Jenks to start the 9th? If Logan had come out and served up the hit to Patterson, you would have thrown him under the bus for not bringing in Bobby to face Patterson. See how big of a mess this team is?

Chicken Dinner
07-02-2007, 10:25 PM
Lots of posts blaming the bullpen so I'll throw Fields under the bus since nobody else has.

That error allowed THREE unearned runs to score in the eighth.

****ing pathetic.

Agreed, but .................................................. .............

Patrick134
07-02-2007, 10:25 PM
The fans are going to so hammer KW at the Friday night seminar of SoxFest 2008. Meanwhile, John from Rolling Meadows says Jenks' fastball didn't have any giddy on it.


Hammer him for what ? The team not hitting? Geez, this team has been decimated by injuries of immense proportions. It'd be a miracle if they were anywhere near the division lead with the collossal injuries they've had. It's always fun to see morons try to shoot Kenny with blanks. Bring it on.

Viva Medias B's
07-02-2007, 10:25 PM
For the record, Buehrle did tell Guillen to take him out. He could have stayed if he wanted to.

It's Time
07-02-2007, 10:26 PM
I really thought that this team had a chance to go on a nice run before the break. This loss just took the wind out of me. Once Patterson doubled off Jenks I knew the game was over.

TDog
07-02-2007, 10:26 PM
Allowed 5 runs in the last 2 innings to blow the game, did anyone really expect different?

Yes. And a lot of others must have as well, considering that most people around here believe that Jenks is worthy of being named to the All-Star team. I don't share that opinion, but it isn't too much to expect Jenks to convert the save.

Regardless of the bullpen, Mark Buehrle gave up three two-out run-scoring hits.

A. Cavatica
07-02-2007, 10:26 PM
For the record, Buehrle did tell Guillen to take him out. He could have stayed if he wanted to.

And he specifically asked for Bukvich.

Chicken Dinner
07-02-2007, 10:27 PM
For the record, Buehrle did tell Guillen to take him out. He could have stayed if he wanted to.

He had a 4 run lead. :o:

CLR01
07-02-2007, 10:27 PM
Hammer him for what ? The team not hitting? Geez, this team has been decimated by injuries of immense proportions. It'd be a miracle if they were anywhere near the division lead with the collossal injuries they've had. It's always fun to see morons try to shoot Kenny with blanks. Bring it on.

"injuries of immense proportions" "collossal injuries" :dunno: They couldn't hit when the guys were healthy either.

santo=dorf
07-02-2007, 10:27 PM
Why are you throwing Ozzie under the bus for bringing in Jenks to start the 9th? If Logan had come out and served up the hit to Patterson, you would have thrown him under the bus for not bringing in Bobby to face Patterson. See how big of a mess this team is?
Have you realized just how good Logan has been against lefties this year? Yes it's possible, although probably less likely, that Boone gives up a hit, but we know for a fact Jenks gave up a double.

Boone should be the new Kelly Wunsch.

JB98
07-02-2007, 10:27 PM
Even after a decent past week offensively, the team is still hitting .237. When you stop scoring every game after the third inning, the relievers have to be more than perfect to carry you.

Personally, I don't think it takes perfection to protect a 6-2 lead with four outs to go. There was plenty of margin for error. The bullpen burned that margin for error, and then some.

FedEx227
07-02-2007, 10:28 PM
Hammer him for what ? The team not hitting? Geez, this team has been decimated by injuries of immense proportions. It'd be a miracle if they were anywhere near the division lead with the collossal injuries they've had. It's always fun to see morons try to shoot Kenny with blanks. Bring it on.

Yes, injuries. Great excuse champ. This team was flawed from the outset. We never had a viable CF option, never had a viable, healthy LF option. Used a bunch of flame-throwing nothings from crappy teams to fill out a bullpen and continued to throw out an anemic hitting SS.

Injuries are not the flaw of this team.

It's Time
07-02-2007, 10:28 PM
Hammer him for what ? The team not hitting? Geez, this team has been decimated by injuries of immense proportions. It'd be a miracle if they were anywhere near the division lead with the collossal injuries they've had. It's always fun to see morons try to shoot Kenny with blanks. Bring it on.

What about the pen he assembled? He should be taken to the cleaners for that alone.

Patrick134
07-02-2007, 10:28 PM
"injuries of immense proportions" "collossal injuries" :dunno: They couldn't hit when the guys were healthy either.

Guys have had gigantic slumps to be sure ( Dye, Konerko, Brian Anderson), but to be fair, the opening day lineup as it was only played a handful of games together. Injuries are in danger of turning this into the season that got away.

nsolo
07-02-2007, 10:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick134 http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1623688#post1623688)
Everybody was thrilled with the pen all of April. It's not Kenny's fault they faltered a bit later.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NDSox12 http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1623694#post1623694)
It's been almost two months now... how long is he supposed to wait?




That's the sad reality. Everyone knows this bullpen sucks, and there's nothing that can be done about it. We just have to sit back and watch this for another 83 games....:gulp:

How ironic this is to me. Living in Michigan, I used to ***** and moan how it always seemed that the flubs were on WGN, but the Sox weren't. Most other broadcasts were blacked out. Now, I don't care.....excuse me...bear to watch.

Please, even if its just firing the bat boy, DO SOMETHING!

Chicken Dinner
07-02-2007, 10:29 PM
Have you realized just how good Logan has been against lefties this year? Yes it's possible, although probably less likely, that Boone gives up a hit, but we know for a fact Jenks gave up a double.

Boone should be the new Kelly Wunsch.

I don't think it matters who's out there, they're going to blow it.:whiner:

CLR01
07-02-2007, 10:29 PM
Guys have had gigantic slumps to be sure ( Dye, Konerko, Brian Anderson), but to be fair, the opening day lineup as it was only played a handful of games together. Injuries are in danger of turning this into the season that got away.

Brian Anderson hibernates, he doesn't slump. That animal.

Patrick134
07-02-2007, 10:30 PM
Brian Anderson hibernates, he doesn't slump. That animal.


Good point. I think he aspires to be able to slump one day though.

Lip Man 1
07-02-2007, 10:32 PM
It's very hard to get and more importantly sustain momentum when the bullpen keeps turning W's into L's.

That's ten games this year, passing last season's mark of nine.

And the scary thing is there's still basically three months of baseball left.

Lip

CLR01
07-02-2007, 10:34 PM
Guys have had gigantic slumps to be sure ( Dye, Konerko, Brian Anderson), but to be fair, the opening day lineup as it was only played a handful of games together. Injuries are in danger of turning this into the season that got away.

No, Pods was injured mid-April and the offense was just as bad with and without him. Thome and Ozuna joined him for a bit in May and again they played just as bad as they did with them. Crede and Optimus Grind in June and guess what, they were still bad.

JB98
07-02-2007, 10:34 PM
It's very hard to get and more importantly sustain momentum when the bullpen keeps turning W's into L's.

That's ten games this year, passing last season's mark of nine.

And the scary thing is there's still basically three months of baseball left.

Lip

Relax, Lip. The bullpen has only faltered a little bit. Everyone loved them in April.

Viva Medias B's
07-02-2007, 10:34 PM
Rongey spweing the company line on the NTC.

nsolo
07-02-2007, 10:35 PM
"Thank you, Mark, for playing the game, and here's your lovely parting gift.....":whiner:

Patrick134
07-02-2007, 10:35 PM
No, Pods was injured mid-April and the offense was just as bad with and without him. Thome and Ozuna joined him for a bit in May and again they played just as bad as they did with them. Crede and Optimus Grind in June and guess what, they were still bad.

Pods and Thomes injuries came when they were the only guys hitting well on the offense. It's almost incalculable how huge that is, timing wise.

CLR01
07-02-2007, 10:36 PM
Rongey spweing the company line on the NTC.

He's a good little ranger.

nccwsfan
07-02-2007, 10:36 PM
Guys have had gigantic slumps to be sure ( Dye, Konerko, Brian Anderson), but to be fair, the opening day lineup as it was only played a handful of games together. Injuries are in danger of turning this into the season that got away.

Even optimists would have to say that 2007 is a goner. The bullpen by itself would have kept this team out of the postseason, so IMO injuries aren't the issue.
It's time to reload. Re-sign Buehrle (because you can't get a better deal for a top of the rotation starter), trade Contreras to free up money for FA in the offseason, give some of the prospects a chance (or second chance), and look forward to KW retooling this in 2008.

Tragg
07-02-2007, 10:38 PM
Rongey spweing the company line on the NTC.
Which is what these days?
The Orioles are just an incredible offensive team?

Patrick134
07-02-2007, 10:39 PM
Which is what these days?
The Orioles are just an incredible offensive team?


I think by NTC he meant "No Tirade Clause"

Viva Medias B's
07-02-2007, 10:39 PM
Even optimists would have to say that 2007 is a goner. The bullpen by itself would have kept this team out of the postseason, so IMO injuries aren't the issue.
It's time to reload. Re-sign Buehrle (because you can't get a better deal for a top of the rotation starter), trade Contreras to free up money for FA in the offseason, give some of the prospects a chance (or second chance), and look forward to KW retooling this in 2008.

Apparently, KW has other ideas than what you suggest. And they could prolong the malaise we are currently in.

TRL
07-02-2007, 10:39 PM
No way we should have lost tonight. I was hopeful that they could at least start playing (or continue playing based on the last road trip) some good baseball for the rest of the year.

Tragg
07-02-2007, 10:40 PM
I think by NTC he meant "No Tirade Clause"

Oh. Thanks.

Well I should ask - Who's Rogney?

CLR01
07-02-2007, 10:40 PM
Pods and Thomes injuries came when they were the only guys hitting well on the offense. It's almost incalculable how huge that is, timing wise.

Two guys, one of them Podsednik are not going to turn an offense around. See the Sox offense during Thome injury and before and after. Not much changed.

Viva Medias B's
07-02-2007, 10:40 PM
Which is what these days?
The Orioles are just an incredible offensive team?

NTC = No Trade Clause. Rongey said that giving Buehrle the NTC would make it "hard" for the Sox to negotiate contracts with other players.

chisoxmike
07-02-2007, 10:41 PM
I wouldn't call winning 6 of 8 sucking. The offense still coming around nicely.

Only 10 posts in...nice job!!!

:thumbsup:

Patrick134
07-02-2007, 10:41 PM
NTC = No Trade Clause. Rongey said that giving Buehrle the NTC would make it hard for the Sox to negotiate contracts with other players.


That's not a horrible point, if all your marquee players have NTC's, your hands are tied.

alohafri
07-02-2007, 10:42 PM
Man, that sucked...

If this is the case, It's a shame to have Mark go out like that.

At least Ozzie won't entertain the idea of Bukvich as the right-handed set-up man again.

Wanna bet? How many times did he truck Mackowiak out to center field last year? Bukvich will be in there tomorrow.

alohafri
07-02-2007, 10:44 PM
For the record, Buehrle did tell Guillen to take him out. He could have stayed if he wanted to.

I believe he said, "I don't want to get hurt before I get traded to the Yankees."

TRL
07-02-2007, 10:44 PM
I'm not sure what right hander other than Bukvich I'd use right now out of the pen.

Patrick134
07-02-2007, 10:45 PM
I'm not sure what right hander other than Bukvich I'd use right now out of the pen.

Francisco Barrios.

Tragg
07-02-2007, 10:47 PM
I'm not sure what right hander other than Bukvich I'd use right now out of the pen.

Did you forget about MacDougal? We had to pry him from the Royals. No worries.

Buke had pitched well in most of his last 10 or so appearances. The problem is that he's just not very good, so this was inevitable.

champagne030
07-02-2007, 10:47 PM
Why pitch to Millar with one out and an open base? Completely stupid.

Oh, I don't know. Maybe Ozzie has no clue on how to handle pitching matchups. Listening to XM yesterday, Millar has been the Orioles hottest hitter for the last month. Scioscia yanks Shields to bring in K-Rod. Ozzie decides to pitch to him with a base open, after walking the previous batter to setup the DP. Go figure.

Everybody was thrilled with the pen all of April. It's not Kenny's fault they faltered a bit later.

Not everyone was thrilled.

Tonight though the offense put up 6 runs, at least. The rest of the game followed script.

3 2-run homers. 7 hits. 10+ K's. Same old ****.


Regardless of the bullpen, Mark Buehrle gave up three two-out run-scoring hits.

Trade his ass already would you Kenny. Jose and Javy are so much better and cheaper than Mark. And maybe we'll pick up a couple of Buckvich's in return. :rolleyes:

Lip Man 1
07-02-2007, 10:49 PM
Someone asked, 'why use Jenks three straight games?'

The only answer I can think of is because Ozzie has completely lost confidence in everyone else in the pen in a game situation. (and honestly I can't fault him if he feels that way...)

Lip

infohawk
07-02-2007, 10:50 PM
Well, no real reason to get upset here. The Sox have been winning some games lately, but the competition hasn't been that tough. It's not like the Sox are going to win anything this year anyway!

I'm less concerned about how the Sox finish the season and much more concerned with the lack of young position players ready to take over. I don't want to lose Mark, but I also know we have to get some young talent in here somehow. I kind of get the sense that KW's "3-year" board counted on some of the outfielders in our system sticking. I fear that the organization is in a bit of a panic (like me) wondering where they are going to get young talent that can be plugged in quickly. They spent so much time worried about getting young, affordable pitching (rightly so) that the lack of the farm system in producing position players ready to step in has perhaps left them feeling short. I think KW was also counting on trading Crede to bring in some young players. Joe's surgery probably closed the door on that option.

As I see it, KW is in a no-win situation. If he doesn't trade Mark, he buys all kinds of good will with the fans but he loses his one really good bargaining chip (Crede would have been the other). Subsequently, the Sox are really hurting for some young, ready-to-go players next year. If he moves Mark for the best deal he can get, lots of people will accuse him of running off a fan-favorite and not getting enough in return. I'm not saying KW doesn't share some of the blame for an unproductive farm system, but he is trying to address that (firing Schaeffer) and can only deal with the future at this point. No use crying over spilled milk.

Tragg
07-02-2007, 10:52 PM
Oh, I don't know. Maybe Ozzie has no clue on how to handle pitching matchups. Listening to XM yesterday, Millar has been the Orioles hottest hitter for the last month. Scioscia yanks Shields to bring in K-Rod. Ozzie decides to pitch to him with a base open, after walking the previous batter to setup the DP.


Opinions differ, but those are the situation and matchups where a good manager earns his money...not on this mechanical lefty/right stuff. A lot of it is feel and gut but you make gut decisions BASED on information. The results aren't there.

Viva Medias B's
07-02-2007, 10:52 PM
Ozzie's presser:

So embarrassed...
We blew this game.
Won't be easy for him to come tomorrow and remember this game.
Doesn't want fans to leave ballpark they way they did tonight.
Said he needs someone in the bullpen to do their job.
Says people for cheered for Buehrle tonight booed him last year.
Asked Buehrle if he wanted to stay in, and Buehrle said he was done.

TRL
07-02-2007, 10:54 PM
Francisco Barrios.

Wow!! There is a name for you. Nicely done.

Tragg
07-02-2007, 10:55 PM
Someone asked, 'why use Jenks three straight games?'

The only answer I can think of is because Ozzie has completely lost confidence in everyone else in the pen in a game situation. (and honestly I can't fault him if he feels that way...)

Lip
I asked that and that makes sense. But that's why I think we'd be better off if Ozzie would come to the realization that we are out of it.

Make decisions for the long-term good. Logan and Thornton aren't hack pitchers - see if they can close a game. Or at least, get an out or two for Jenks first. Don't wear out the big man.

Viva Medias B's
07-02-2007, 10:56 PM
Kevin from the South Side wants to fire Ozzie. Rongey got testy with him.

infohawk
07-02-2007, 10:59 PM
Someone asked, 'why use Jenks three straight games?'

The only answer I can think of is because Ozzie has completely lost confidence in everyone else in the pen in a game situation. (and honestly I can't fault him if he feels that way...)

Lip
Yeah, the fact that Ryan Buckvich is even with the team is a testament to how poorly his predecessors did with their opportunity over the first couple of months.

I can honestly say that I didn't anticipate so many things about this season. I'm not even just talking about the record. I didn't see BOTH Pods and Erstad on the DL merry-go-round, I didn't see Crede being out for most of the season, I didn't see a team-wide offensive slump, I didn't see almost EVERY reliever imploding at the same time, I didn't see the likes of Luis Terrero and Andy Gonzalez patrolling the outfield over the more heralded Ryan Sweeney and Brian Anderson. I didn't see losing Pablo for the majority of the season. I didn't see Mark Buehrle throwing a no-hitter (good thing). I didn't see the Sox finally owning Oakland AND Tampa Bay but being out of it so it really didn't matter.

Wow! What a horrendous year!:whiner:

itsnotrequired
07-02-2007, 11:02 PM
there goes my hero...watch him as he goes

Sig update time...

Tragg
07-02-2007, 11:04 PM
As I see it, KW is in a no-win situation. If he doesn't trade Mark, he buys all kinds of good will with the fans but he loses his one really good bargaining chip (Crede would have been the other). Subsequently, the Sox are really hurting for some young, ready-to-go players next year. If he moves Mark for the best deal he can get, lots of people will accuse him of running off a fan-favorite and not getting enough in return.

That's certainly true - you look at the team on the field and it's scary.

I'd just say that I'm dubious about how much he's going to get for Mark; and I think we need Crede - like you said, no position players; we could trade Contreras. Or Garland for that matter. .

TRL
07-02-2007, 11:04 PM
Kevin from the South Side wants to fire Ozzie. Rongey got testy with him.

Personally I think it would be pretty dumb to fire Ozzie or anyone else on the staff for that matter. How many managers are going to win games with the bullpen we have this year? Add that to the team wide hitting slump and the endless list of guys going on the DL and that's a recipe for a poor season no matter who is filling out the lineup card.

chisoxmike
07-02-2007, 11:07 PM
there goes my hero...watch him as he goes



Sing it Miller...

:bateyes:

champagne030
07-02-2007, 11:08 PM
Opinions differ, but those are the situation and matchups where a good manager earns his money...not on this mechanical lefty/right stuff. A lot of it is feel and gut but you make gut decisions BASED on information. The results aren't there.

I agree. I don't think Ozzie knows that Millar has been their hottest hitter for the past month, but Scioscia did.

Tragg
07-02-2007, 11:09 PM
I agree. I don't think Ozzie knows that Millar has been their hottest hitter for the past month, but Scioscia did.

It's Ozzie's job to know that. No excuses.

infohawk
07-02-2007, 11:10 PM
You know, I won't really start feeling better until after some moves are made. Things are so frustratingly bleak at this moment of this season that I need to see that KW has a plan. I have faith in KW, but I just need to see some demolition and repair work before I'll start to feel better about the bigger picture. Per my earlier post in this thread, I kind of get the sense that KW was counting on having the Anderson and Sweeneys ready to go as well as some more trade leverage (Crede) then what he actually finds himself with. I'm reminded of the scene in "The Natural" when "Wonderboy" breaks and Roy Hobbs says to the ball boy, "Pick me out a winner, Bobby." Kenny, whatever you need to do, "pick us out a winner."

itsnotrequired
07-02-2007, 11:10 PM
Sing it Miller...

:bateyes:

Solid track, solid tip-o-the-cap.

:whiner:

Brian26
07-02-2007, 11:17 PM
Francisco Barrios.

Awesome. :D:

infohawk
07-02-2007, 11:21 PM
I'd just say that I'm dubious about how much he's going to get for Mark;
I completely agree. Even if he takes the best offer, I think most of us will be upset with whatever that might be (even if it works out big time down the road). If the Sox re-sign Mark, Jerry had better be prepared to open his wallet a little wider to get at least one or two positions filled before next Spring in addition to whatever they already thought they needed to bring in. In other words, if they were going to bring in an outfielder or two, they will also need another infielder or two. I am glad we acquired that Danny Richar. Perhaps he can man second base or shortstop.

I do agree that KW needs to get whatever he can for Contreras. Actually, depending on how badly he is needed (and the Mets just DL'd one of their pitchers), the Count might bring in a better haul than one might have thought thanks largely to being signed to a multi-year deal.

Lip Man 1
07-02-2007, 11:51 PM
Viva:

Your 'recap' of Ozzie's presser is interesting because I think we're heard this before a number of times, and still nothing is being done to change it, either on or off the field.

Guys aren't being sat for not being able to execute fundamentals, make plays, catch the ball...the kids that are up from Charlotte look lost, it's like a nightmare that takes place every night.

Not a good position to be in at all.

Ozzie a few weeks ago finally got tired of it and had what I thought was a great comment. He said instead of having to try to 'explain' what's been going on to the media night after night that he thought the PR department should bring the players in to take the questions and have to try to answer them.

You can't fine the guys for not being able to execute (Eddie Stanky is rolling over in his grave over that one!), you can't bench them I guess because the Sox have no one to replace them....maybe you can publicly embarrass them into performing better.

Lip

CLR01
07-03-2007, 12:08 AM
You know things are going bad when you are complaining about the outcome of a game 24 hours before it is played.

kevingrt
07-03-2007, 12:49 AM
there goes my hero...watch him as he goes

Sig update time...

There goes my hero... Hes ordinary

As ordinary as no NTC in a contract.

GregO23
07-03-2007, 12:56 AM
good game buehrle, ill miss you:(:



please sign

ThomesHomie
07-03-2007, 01:02 AM
When we have Ryan Buckvich ( who ? ) pitching for us. I mean really, why even sign Mark, when we have guys like that in our bull pen.

Foulke You
07-03-2007, 01:25 AM
Yeah, the fact that Ryan Buckvich is even with the team is a testament to how poorly his predecessors did with their opportunity over the first couple of months.

I can honestly say that I didn't anticipate so many things about this season. I'm not even just talking about the record. I didn't see BOTH Pods and Erstad on the DL merry-go-round, I didn't see Crede being out for most of the season, I didn't see a team-wide offensive slump, I didn't see almost EVERY reliever imploding at the same time, I didn't see the likes of Luis Terrero and Andy Gonzalez patrolling the outfield over the more heralded Ryan Sweeney and Brian Anderson. I didn't see losing Pablo for the majority of the season. I didn't see Mark Buehrle throwing a no-hitter (good thing). I didn't see the Sox finally owning Oakland AND Tampa Bay but being out of it so it really didn't matter.

Wow! What a horrendous year!:whiner:
That about sums it up. Greg Walker is right, a "perfect storm" hit this ballclub this year. This is just one of those seasons where nothing goes right. Here lies the beauty of baseball and why you need to appreciate special seasons like 2005 when they do come around. Nothing is guaranteed in this game and just when you think things are all set on paper...BOOM! It explodes. :(:

southsideirish71
07-03-2007, 02:41 AM
That about sums it up. Greg Walker is right, a "perfect storm" hit this ballclub this year. This is just one of those seasons where nothing goes right. Here lies the beauty of baseball and why you need to appreciate special seasons like 2005 when they do come around. Nothing is guaranteed in this game and just when you think things are all set on paper...BOOM! It explodes. :(:


Perfect storm.

So the sox are shocked that our CF, who has been on the DL with a ankle issue before this year, has in fact gone down for significant time with, an ankle issue.

Our LF who has had 4 groin surgeries, had more groin issues, and now a bad rib cage.

Crede, who was told to have back surgery, is out for the year with back issues.

This is like saying, that the cubs are shocked that Prior and Wood didnt make 30 starts this year.

The perfect storm was relying on often injured players for your starting jobs with not thoughts to backups. Its to a minor league system, that doesnt provide fundamental instruction to our talent pool to prepare them to play the game the right way. Its to a hitting coach, who doesnt want to fix the vets because they are vets, and doesnt work with the kids because their swing is what got them there. Our hitters have no clue what a strike is, how to pick out pitches to hit, and now not to swing at pitches over their heads. The perfect storm was a high velocity bullpen that never threw strikes before, being relied on to all at once throw strikes.

The perfect storm was basically being called on your bluff, on every hand this year. Thats the perfect storm. Its not some mystical thing, its called being caught with poor planning, poor instruction in the minors, and poor execution at the major league level.

Perfect storm is a term used by Walker to keep his job. He made this theory up, and a lot of you bought it hook line and sinker.

kevingrt
07-03-2007, 05:48 AM
Perfect storm.

So the sox are shocked that our CF, who has been on the DL with a ankle issue before this year, has in fact gone down for significant time with, an ankle issue.

Our LF who has had 4 groin surgeries, had more groin issues, and now a bad rib cage.

Crede, who was told to have back surgery, is out for the year with back issues.

This is like saying, that the cubs are shocked that Prior and Wood didnt make 30 starts this year.

The perfect storm was relying on often injured players for your starting jobs with not thoughts to backups. Its to a minor league system, that doesnt provide fundamental instruction to our talent pool to prepare them to play the game the right way. Its to a hitting coach, who doesnt want to fix the vets because they are vets, and doesnt work with the kids because their swing is what got them there. Our hitters have no clue what a strike is, how to pick out pitches to hit, and now not to swing at pitches over their heads. The perfect storm was a high velocity bullpen that never threw strikes before, being relied on to all at once throw strikes.

The perfect storm was basically being called on your bluff, on every hand this year. Thats the perfect storm. Its not some mystical thing, its called being caught with poor planning, poor instruction in the minors, and poor execution at the major league level.

Perfect storm is a term used by Walker to keep his job. He made this theory up, and a lot of you bought it hook line and sinker.

Perfect storm is anything but the right storm. The ballclub this year seems more reality. At least the hitting portion of the club. I agree the pitching staff has gotten the axe especially the starters since the bullpen can never hold them up.

But as for the hitting it was the major storm on everyones radar. It's not like everything had to go together for this storm to form. You mentioned all the injuries and question marks. It was just a matter of time before the team exploded. We are lucky PK hasn't gotten injured yet, because no one could back him even up at first base.

But this is anything but a perfect storm. This is what some people saw before the season. Other people (including myself) were having too much KoolAid during spring training and February.

Railsplitter
07-03-2007, 07:22 AM
:cuss: Well, at least Thorton will be available for tonight.

BeviBall!
07-03-2007, 08:21 AM
Home sweet home!

Happy trails, MB. We'll never forget you.

stl_sox_fan
07-03-2007, 08:27 AM
Ahh I missed this team over the last week.
Okay the Hold stat needs to go away. According to Yahoo, Bukvich actually got credited with one for his performance last night!

RowanDye
07-03-2007, 09:44 AM
Guys have had gigantic slumps to be sure ( Dye, Konerko, Brian Anderson), but to be fair, the opening day lineup as it was only played a handful of games together. Injuries are in danger of turning this into the season that got away.

Oh yea, I forgot about Anderson's GIGANTIC 17 AB's in 13 games.

Are you ****ing kidding me?

russ99
07-03-2007, 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick134 http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1623688#post1623688)
Everybody was thrilled with the pen all of April. It's not Kenny's fault they faltered a bit later.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NDSox12 http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1623694#post1623694)
It's been almost two months now... how long is he supposed to wait?


That's the sad reality. Everyone knows this bullpen sucks, and there's nothing that can be done about it. We just have to sit back and watch this for another 83 games....:gulp:

I certainly won't let Kenny cop out like that for the rest of the season, and neither should you.

There have been trades for relievers so far this season (Capellan, Maroth) and there have been some guys on the waiver wire who aren't world beaters (like Witasick, Romero) and/or likely near the end of their career (like Percival & Roberto H.).

Certainly there's something better that can be done other than sending down/calling up the same guys or bringing in more AAA relievers to be shelled.

ThomesHomie
07-03-2007, 10:49 AM
With all the money we save if we don't sign MB, should atleast get us 20 more no name bull pen pitches.

Ryan Buckvich :?:

Domeshot17
07-03-2007, 02:15 PM
Late on this, a lot of this might be said, sorry if it has.

I was at the game last night, and it was awesome. If Kenny ever listened to the fans, last night might have been it. I loved the monster Extend Buehrle sign from the skybox. In the OF seats we had a great resign Buehrle chant going, but maybe the thing that kind of hit the most was when Burls left. When they pulled him, the music he walked out to was "My Hero" by the Foo Fighters.

It just makes me mad. Does this team need to be rebuilt? Yes! But you can save the money elsewhere. Trade guys like Thome Contreras, older guys with big contracts. It just blows my mind why wouldnt build our team around a solid core of Burls Jenks Garland Konerko. Thome should bring us a lot in a trade. Dye could net us something good also. Those are guys who, if retooling, would make sense to move. Not keep the old guys and trade the young ones!

chisoxfanatic
07-03-2007, 03:05 PM
When can we release Bukvich? He's not useful at all! Saturday's outing was the only decent one of his stay here. He can't do ANYTHING for us. I'm shocked Ozzie even put him in in that situation. To minimize his chance of screwing things up, you only put him in when the bases are empty. What a joke!

Nellie_Fox
07-03-2007, 03:20 PM
I'd love to see a list of every player that a WSI poster has wanted to release or DFA in the past month or two. The Sox roster would be just about empty.

You guys do realize that the Sox would still have to pay them, don't you? And I don't see what better option they currently have. I have said before that no one should suggest releasing any player unless they are willing to say who they think should be playing instead.

Unless, of course, you want to just shut down and forfeit the rest of the season due to not having enough players to compete, and I don't think MLB would allow that.

NSSoxFan
07-03-2007, 03:22 PM
You guys do realize that the Sox would still have to pay them, don't you?

You know nobody spends someone else's money like WSI'ers.

Domeshot17
07-03-2007, 04:04 PM
I'd love to see a list of every player that a WSI poster has wanted to release or DFA in the past month or two. The Sox roster would be just about empty.

You guys do realize that the Sox would still have to pay them, don't you? And I don't see what better option they currently have. I have said before that no one should suggest releasing any player unless they are willing to say who they think should be playing instead.

Unless, of course, you want to just shut down and forfeit the rest of the season due to not having enough players to compete, and I don't think MLB would allow that.

Im not saying they should release Ryan, but why not give guys like Broadway and Floyd a chance to pitch in the bullpen for a while. I know they are starters, but similiar approaches were taken with other starters before

oeo
07-03-2007, 04:26 PM
Im not saying they should release Ryan, but why not give guys like Broadway and Floyd a chance to pitch in the bullpen for a while. I know they are starters, but similiar approaches were taken with other starters before

Why rush them up here? No need for that.

Dewon Day has started to pitch in AAA (2.0 IP, 3K)...I'd imagine if Bukvich continues Imploding 101 (which I'm sure will happen), Day will be up and Bukvich will be shown the door.