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View Full Version : Just a thought to get the Sox to budge on Buehrle deal


Frontman
07-02-2007, 05:59 PM
Well, since it would take too long to get the point across by not buying tickets/spending money (as it would take the rest of the season to make a dent in the Sox purse, even then) I suggest we should start chanting at the park for them to sign Mark.

"Please sign Buehrle." If the entire crowd (or a majority of it) started doing that, the Sox would look foolish to trade him if the fans in attendance are asking them not to. If you get enough people to chant, it would be heard on TV and radio. Enough attention would get the deal done.

We don't need to be rude or crude, (it would be poor taste to do it during the Anthem or the stretch, for example) but to do it during play, especially when Mark is pitching. Get the attention of Jerry and Kenny, that the fans who support the team don't want its best pitcher to be moved. Period.

I'm going Saturday, and I'm hoping Mark is still on this team then, and if he is, we'll all be trying to get this going.

What do you all think? Stupid or maybe, just maybe, can we get our point across to the ownership of the Sox?

pearso66
07-02-2007, 06:05 PM
Well, since it would take too long to get the point across by not buying tickets/spending money (as it would take the rest of the season to make a dent in the Sox purse, even then) I suggest we should start chanting at the park for them to sign Mark.

"Please sign Buehrle." If the entire crowd (or a majority of it) started doing that, the Sox would look foolish to trade him if the fans in attendance are asking them not to. If you get enough people to chant, it would be heard on TV and radio. Enough attention would get the deal done.

We don't need to be rude or crude, (it would be poor taste to do it during the Anthem or the stretch, for example) but to do it during play, especially when Mark is pitching. Get the attention of Jerry and Kenny, that the fans who support the team don't want its best pitcher to be moved. Period.

I'm going Saturday, and I'm hoping Mark is still on this team then, and if he is, we'll all be trying to get this going.

What do you all think? Stupid or maybe, just maybe, can we get our point across to the ownership of the Sox?

Why not just chant "Buehrle" like they chant "Pauly" at the games. That way at least others can get involved. If you make it too long, or complicated, nobody will join in.

That being said, I doubt it would do any good. If they are going to sign Buehrle, they'll do it, if they aren't, they won't, and getting the crowd to chant that, won't help one way or another I don't think.

Martinigirl
07-02-2007, 06:06 PM
I distinctly remember people chanting "Resign Paul" at the World Series Parade. That seemed to work...Well, I don't actually think it was the chant, but hey, Paulie is still here, so it didn't hurt.

Daver
07-02-2007, 06:10 PM
I distinctly remember people chanting "Resign Paul" at the World Series Parade. That seemed to work...Well, I don't actually think it was the chant, but hey, Paulie is still here, so it didn't hurt.

Giving the winning ball from the World Series to the chairman might have helped.

Frontman
07-02-2007, 06:48 PM
So, what can Mark give them?

He's already given them this moment this season:

http://www.chieftain.com/archive/2007/apr/19/sptnohit.jpg

and this moment to end game 3 in 05

http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2005/10/26/PH2005102600643.jpg

but if keeping Mark and getting a home-town discount, and keeping us paying fans happy as they work towards the future, they will keep getting this from us:

http://fullcircle.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/free_money.jpg

Just my thought on it.

We need to let KW, Jerry, and the Sox know that we want Mark to stay.

But if we chant "Resign Paulie" and we can get them to sign Paul, I don't think it would hurt to try "Resign Buehrle" and maybe we get the same result (only better results out of Mark than Paul. Granted, Paul has come around recently, but ah heck, you get my point.)

JB98
07-02-2007, 07:43 PM
FWIW, KW commented on the issue before the game and stated his gut feeling was that both parties wanted a deal to be made, and that he was hopeful a deal could still get done.

The Immigrant
07-02-2007, 08:39 PM
The crowd just chanted "We Want Buehrle".

peeonwrigley
07-02-2007, 08:40 PM
But if we chant "Resign Paulie" and we can get them to sign Paul, I don't think it would hurt to try "Resign Buehrle" and maybe we get the same result (only better results out of Mark than Paul. Granted, Paul has come around recently, but ah heck, you get my point.)

I highly doubt that this will/would impact management one way or another, but it is coming through loud and clear on TV.

Frontman
07-02-2007, 08:40 PM
FWIW, KW commented on the issue before the game and stated his gut feeling was that both parties wanted a deal to be made, and that he was hopeful a deal could still get done.

Yeah, I posted my idea, then KW commented. He must be listening to us! :wink:

Honestly, though. I got the idea in my head after watching some of my old ECW wrestling tapes. If fans can chant "This match rules" (as well as less flaterring phrases) and get the attention of the people who run wrestling to give them more of what they'd like, why wouldn't it work for actual sporting events?

getonbckthr
07-02-2007, 08:46 PM
Yeah, I posted my idea, then KW commented. He must be listening to us! :wink:

Honestly, though. I got the idea in my head after watching some of my old ECW wrestling tapes. If fans can chant "This match rules" (as well as less flaterring phrases) and get the attention of the people who run wrestling to give them more of what they'd like, why wouldn't it work for actual sporting events?
Because wrestling relies heavily on ratings and merchandise sales. The only way you get ratings is by keeping the fans happy. The only way to get good merchandise sales is to keep shoving the performers we want down our throats. With baseball ratings aren't a problem cause they are there not mention all the millions and billions that have been spent already. Also if you run the team based on what the fans want you will end up having a very bad team.

oeo
07-02-2007, 09:00 PM
FWIW, KW commented on the issue before the game and stated his gut feeling was that both parties wanted a deal to be made, and that he was hopeful a deal could still get done.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-070702soxwilliamsbuehrle,1,795995.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

Ignore what the media has to say until there's an official announcement.

Frontman
07-02-2007, 09:00 PM
Because wrestling relies heavily on ratings and merchandise sales. The only way you get ratings is by keeping the fans happy. The only way to get good merchandise sales is to keep shoving the performers we want down our throats. With baseball ratings aren't a problem cause they are there not mention all the millions and billions that have been spent already. Also if you run the team based on what the fans want you will end up having a very bad team.

So wanting the only dependable pitcher and our true ace to get signed would make it a bad team? I disagree. Now, the fans who wanted us to keep the entire team from 2005 together? I agree that philosophy wouldn't work, we would be in very poor shape, as how many of those guys are out of baseball now? But keeping our best pitcher, the only pitcher besides Garland right now that Sox fans have any faith in as we still hold our breath come the fifth

Sorry, KW's argument against a NTC holds zero weight after giving one to Contreras and Vasquez (especially after last season's "5 innings and out" performance) yet won't give one to Mark?

Fans, keep it up. Let them know we want Mark to stay. We can't all return our tickets for the season, but we certainly can let our voice be heard.

GlassSox
07-02-2007, 09:14 PM
So wanting the only dependable pitcher and our true ace to get signed would make it a bad team? I disagree. Now, the fans who wanted us to keep the entire team from 2005 together? I agree that philosophy wouldn't work, we would be in very poor shape, as how many of those guys are out of baseball now? But keeping our best pitcher, the only pitcher besides Garland right now that Sox fans have any faith in as we still hold our breath come the fifth

Sorry, KW's argument against a NTC holds zero weight after giving one to Contreras and Vasquez (especially after last season's "5 innings and out" performance) yet won't give one to Mark?

Fans, keep it up. Let them know we want Mark to stay. We can't all return our tickets for the season, but we certainly can let our voice be heard.

Amen! The voices should be heard: Let's sign Buerhle!

Jjav829
07-02-2007, 09:17 PM
The bottom line is Kenny Williams will do, and should do, what he feels is best for the future of the White Sox. Every fan could chant "We Want Buehrle" for 9 innings, but that isn't going to make KW do something he doesn't feel is in the best interests of the organization. Kenny Williams job is to field a World Series championship caliber team. If he can reach an agreement with Buehrle that he feels furthers that goal, I'm sure he will re-sign Buehrle. But Kenny isn't going to budge on what he feels is a bad deal because the fans start chanting "We want Buehrle." You think the White Sox organization doesn't know that fans want Buehrle back? Of course they do. They're not blind. They want Buehrle back, too, but only if it makes sense.

If it makes you feel better to chant something, feel free to do it. Hell, I'd probably join in if I was there. But don't expect a chant by the fans is going to be what gets a deal done. It's not like Kenny is going to hear fans chanting "We want Buehrle" and suddenly have some eye-opening moment where he realizes fans do want Buehrle to stay and then run to his phone to call Buehrle's agent and offer a full no-trade clause.

NoNeckEra
07-02-2007, 10:24 PM
The bottom line is Kenny Williams will do, and should do, what he feels is best for the future of the White Sox. Every fan could chant "We Want Buehrle" for 9 innings, but that isn't going to make KW do something he doesn't feel is in the best interests of the organization. Kenny Williams job is to field a World Series championship caliber team. If he can reach an agreement with Buehrle that he feels furthers that goal, I'm sure he will re-sign Buehrle. But Kenny isn't going to budge on what he feels is a bad deal because the fans start chanting "We want Buehrle." You think the White Sox organization doesn't know that fans want Buehrle back? Of course they do. They're not blind. They want Buehrle back, too, but only if it makes sense.

If it makes you feel better to chant something, feel free to do it. Hell, I'd probably join in if I was there. But don't expect a chant by the fans is going to be what gets a deal done. It's not like Kenny is going to hear fans chanting "We want Buehrle" and suddenly have some eye-opening moment where he realizes fans do want Buehrle to stay and then run to his phone to call Buehrle's agent and offer a full no-trade clause.

Finally, a voice of reason.

gobears1987
07-02-2007, 10:42 PM
KW's comments at least give me some hope that Buehrle might stick around.

Having Mark Buehrle pitch on the southside for the next four years is certainly in the best interest of the club. Especially with the hometown discount. In seven years of pitching at the MLB level, he has been consistent. He has only been bad during a half of a single season. How many other pitchers have shown his consistency? I mean even Santana has bad months.

WikdChiSoxFan
07-02-2007, 11:18 PM
Finally, a voice of reason.

well, it ain't kenny's

Frontman
07-03-2007, 04:20 PM
The bottom line is Kenny Williams will do, and should do, what he feels is best for the future of the White Sox. Every fan could chant "We Want Buehrle" for 9 innings, but that isn't going to make KW do something he doesn't feel is in the best interests of the organization. Kenny Williams job is to field a World Series championship caliber team. If he can reach an agreement with Buehrle that he feels furthers that goal, I'm sure he will re-sign Buehrle. But Kenny isn't going to budge on what he feels is a bad deal because the fans start chanting "We want Buehrle." You think the White Sox organization doesn't know that fans want Buehrle back? Of course they do. They're not blind. They want Buehrle back, too, but only if it makes sense.

If it makes you feel better to chant something, feel free to do it. Hell, I'd probably join in if I was there. But don't expect a chant by the fans is going to be what gets a deal done. It's not like Kenny is going to hear fans chanting "We want Buehrle" and suddenly have some eye-opening moment where he realizes fans do want Buehrle to stay and then run to his phone to call Buehrle's agent and offer a full no-trade clause.

So, in KW's mind, having a bunch of no-talent hacks from the minors is good, having MORE no-talent hacks from the minors would be better? Because that's all we'll get for Mark at this point. That's all we ever get. The league knows KW and the Sox organization are suckers for "prospects" and we keep on getting sub-par players in exchange for the players we've traded on the Southside. How's Terrero, Fields, Owens, and Sweeney been working out when we needed them; to be instead of the "players of tomorrow" as being "the players of today?"

Our farm system isn't the greatest, and to replenish it, KW is thinking of taking one of the two guys who still can find the strike zone and is capable of pitching more than 6 innings. (Garland being the only other starter who we know what we've got.) The other 3 (Danks, Conteras, and Vasquez) are either too inexperienced (Danks) to dang old to pitch like he once did and uses 6 different arm angles trying to cover up the fact he's lost his edge(Jose) or a complete wildcard in what he'll give us each time out, (Vasquez.) Garland and Buehrle are our only two reliable pitchers we've got, and since Mark is a lefty with better stuff, why is it that Mark should be the one moved?

So, it makes sense in rebuilding a team to take the only guy on the team worth anything, give him away for "hopefuls" and maybe they *might* down the road give you as good/better results than the guy who you already got and WANTS TO STAY. Maybe I'm sports moronic, but if you've got something that works, you keep it and get rid of the rest. To keep the sub-par or spotty performers stinks of giving up and just "better luck next year. And the year after that. Oh, and maybe for even up to five years, as our 'prospects' are developing."

To move Mark now, it is total "White Flag 2007" which will set this club back years. We're talking giving up on playoff contention for at least 3 to 5 years, as it will take that long to develop Danks, Masset, and possibly Floyd even come close to Mark's peformance. And can anyone honestly say that any of those three are set to do as well as Mark has done for us?

As Dennis Miller once said, "Two of [CENSORED] is still [CENSORED.] If they really wanted to [CENSORED] you, they'd give you three of them."

Look, I was one who felt the Rowand for Thome deal was good. The Garcia for Floyd? How's that working out for the major league roster? Oh sure, Floyd is All-star material in AAA, but in spring training he was brutal. He has been so great in AAA, that with all our pitching problems, they haven't brought him up to the majors. Danks paid off so far, but Masset? Do they still even acknowledge they've got the kid in the bullpen?

And your "The Sox will resign Mark only if it makes sense" doesn't make any sense. On the current roster, we have 3 players who were given NTC in their contracts (Contreras, Vasquez, and Konerko) yet KW can spin it all he wants when it comes to Mark? No, either the Sox have zero players with NTC or the Sox allow it. If the Sox don't allow it, then Contreras and Vasquez and Konerko can all be moved.

Granted, they've got a sheet of paper saying that can't be moved, so what is it Kenny? It doesn't make sense for Kenny to say he can't and won't do it, when he already has. He's even given conditional NTC, in the form of Javy's, as for whatever reason, Javy doesn't want to be traded to any western teams. You can't give a conditional NTC to Mark that says, "until Baby Buehrle is out of diapers, Mark can't be dealt?" Heck, Steven Philips on Coppock's show on ESPN today said you can work around the NTC deal, saying that "If Buehrle is ever traded, his rate goes from 12/14 million to 16 million per year" (or whatever the exact number was.) That way, Mark still gives a hometown discount as long as he remains at home.

It doesn't make sense to keep on dancing around it. The Sox have a proven quality pitcher in Mark. It doesn't make sense for him to walk/get traded, yet we keep the broken the shortstop who can't do anything other than uppercut swing at a ball, and an outfield of broken down players. THAT doesn't make sense. To give Mark away (and that's what it will be, as we won't get a single MLB ready player of any worth for him) doesn't make sense when he's one of the only bright spots out of the 25 guys the Sox have on the active roster.

Bottom line is that the Sox want to be on the cheap when it comes to top players. Problem is that you will never have top players if you keep on doing that. Honestly, is Konerko in the top 5 of first basemen? Top 10? Maybe in the top 20, but then again, there are only 32 teams; so what's that saying?

Fans, keep it up. If it gets this deal done, great. If not? At least we let them know what we want. We want an all-star, no-hit throwin', World Series experienced lefty starter; instead of another possible "prospect."

That's just my take on it. Sure, we can't "make" Kenny sign or keep Mark. But maybe reminding them every night that the paying customer actually wants that to happen wouldn't hurt.

lostfan
07-03-2007, 04:39 PM
Frontman, I completely understand your opinion on Buehrle, but why are you so down on prospects? Every star player was a "prospect" at some point. Because they don't have instant impact? I mean, why? You can't have a continuously successful team without prospects and a strong farm system (redundant statement, it's the same thing).

eriqjaffe
07-03-2007, 04:45 PM
I mean even Santana has bad months.Such as the months when he doesn't pitch against the Sox, right? :(

Frontman
07-03-2007, 04:47 PM
Frontman, I completely understand your opinion on Buehrle, but why are you so down on prospects? Every star player was a "prospect" at some point. Because they don't have instant impact? I mean, why? You can't have a continuously successful team without prospects and a strong farm system (redundant statement, it's the same thing).

You mean besides the fact that the Sox have a lousy track record at judging prospects? The Sox keep getting hand offs instead of future all-stars when they do trades.

Right now, giving the Sox more prospects isn't going to turn the team around. This team needs a combination of young talent and experienced players to get us back to playoff caliber baseball. Mark actually is a combination of both in one player. He's young for a pitcher (and possibly could go another 12/16 years, just look at Clemens and co. pitching into their 40's) and has playoff experience.

Frontman
07-03-2007, 04:48 PM
Such as the months when he doesn't pitch against the Sox, right? :(

No, he meant Santana has bad pitching when it comes to celebrity endorsements. The man can't sell anything. :wink:

lostfan
07-03-2007, 04:49 PM
You mean besides the fact that the Sox have a lousy track record at judging prospects? The Sox keep getting hand offs instead of future all-stars when they do trades.

Right now, giving the Sox more prospects isn't going to turn the team around. This team needs a combination of young talent and experienced players to get us back to playoff caliber baseball. Mark actually is a combination of both in one player. He's young for a pitcher (and possibly could go another 12/16 years, just look at Clemens and co. pitching into their 40's) and has playoff experience.
No I'm with you on Buehrle. But the fact that the Sox have sucked lately at finding future stars isn't a reason for them to stop trying.

Frontman
07-03-2007, 04:51 PM
No I'm with you on Buehrle. But the fact that the Sox have sucked lately at finding future stars isn't a reason for them to stop trying.

Try with Iguchi, Dye, Contreras, Vasquez. Heck, even Thome or Konerko. But to trade either Garland or Buehrle is just giving away the only strength to our rotation. Quality pitchers are so hard to come by that giving one up in a trade better give you a consistent .300 hitter at the major league level, and no team playoff bound would do that.

fusillirob1983
07-03-2007, 04:55 PM
So, in KW's mind, having a bunch of no-talent hacks from the minors is good, having MORE no-talent hacks from the minors would be better? Because that's all we'll get for Mark at this point. That's all we ever get. The league knows KW and the Sox organization are suckers for "prospects" and we keep on getting sub-par players in exchange for the players we've traded on the Southside. How's Terrero, Fields, Owens, and Sweeney been working out when we needed them; to be instead of the "players of tomorrow" as being "the players of today?"

Who did we lose for Terrero? And weren't the other 3 our draft picks?




The Garcia for Floyd? How's that working out for the major league roster? Oh sure, Floyd is All-star material in AAA, but in spring training he was brutal. He has been so great in AAA, that with all our pitching problems, they haven't brought him up to the majors.

I won't disagree with the Garcia trade because he hasn't done much for the Phillies this year being injured and pitching mediocre when he hasn't been injured. I can maybe see Gavin in back in the majors at some point, but if I remember correctly he had only one or no options left?

Daver
07-03-2007, 04:57 PM
I can maybe see Gavin in back in the majors at some point, but if I remember correctly he had only one or no options left?

He's pitching well in Charlotte, and that option lasts all season long, they don't have to call him up before ST.

lostfan
07-03-2007, 04:57 PM
Try with Iguchi, Dye, Contreras, Vasquez. Heck, even Thome or Konerko. But to trade either Garland or Buehrle is just giving away the only strength to our rotation. Quality pitchers are so hard to come by that giving one up in a trade better give you a consistent .300 hitter at the major league level, and no team playoff bound would do that.
Like I said, I totally agree with the whole principle of Buehrle, and Garland who I put on the same level as Buehrle. I don't want Buehrle to go... but if, hypothetically, the Sox got a pair of hot prospects that were able to contribute at the MLB level within a year or two (would never happen unless the GM was a moron) I wouldn't hesitate. But deal him for fringe prospects? No thanks.

Frontman
07-03-2007, 05:04 PM
Who did we lose for Terrero? And weren't the other 3 our draft picks?

I won't disagree with the Garcia trade because he hasn't done much for the Phillies this year being injured and pitching mediocre when he hasn't been injured. I can maybe see Gavin in back in the majors at some point, but if I remember correctly he had only one or no options left?

Let me explain something on my comment about prospects. I'm not just talking those we get in trade, but those we draft. Considering the Sox fired/let go/the guy resigned-sort of the man in charge of our scouting for the past 17 years, the Sox are not sitting pretty when it comes to judging talent. Very few of our draft picks have paid off. Come to think of it, KW is thinking of trading the only one that's paid off in the past decade!

And again, if Floyd had only one option left, that deal was horrid (sans the fact that Freddie fell apart once getting to Philly.)

fusillirob1983
07-03-2007, 05:31 PM
Let me explain something on my comment about prospects. I'm not just talking those we get in trade, but those we draft. Considering the Sox fired/let go/the guy resigned-sort of the man in charge of our scouting for the past 17 years, the Sox are not sitting pretty when it comes to judging talent. Very few of our draft picks have paid off. Come to think of it, KW is thinking of trading the only one that's paid off in the past decade!

And again, if Floyd had only one option left, that deal was horrid (sans the fact that Freddie fell apart once getting to Philly.)


Well I agree, our prospects haven't done so great this year. I think it's still too early to tell because aside from Anderson, the rest only have a few hundred major league at-bats between them, not to say they're guaranteed to get better. I didn't understand the example of those 4 as the return for giving up a Buehrle-caliber player. The last time we gave up players this important to the team our return was nothing for Maggs (except freeing up salary) and Pods, Vizcaino, and freeing up salary to get rid of Carlos Lee. In saying all this, I'm not saying we'd be getting a fair return if we traded Buehrle now and got a complete question mark like Gavin Floyd.

We don't know what else was out there for Freddy. We got rid of $10 million in salary from the major league roster (but probably went into raises for current players) and currently have a guy that hasn't contributed in the majors yet. Could the trade have a addressed Phil Rogers' triad of the Sox's problems the past two seasons (SS, CF, LF) while still remaining within budget and such affordable and available players existing? Am I currently pleased with the Freddy trade? Not really because I've seen no result from it. I don't think I'll put more thought into it until I any hear news about Floyd or Gio being brought up.

jabrch
07-03-2007, 05:39 PM
And again, if Floyd had only one option left, that deal was horrid (sans the fact that Freddie fell apart once getting to Philly.)

Amazing...

We get one of the top 5 LHP in all of minor league baseball along with Floyd for a guy who hasn't pitched and you ***** about that?

Frontman
07-03-2007, 06:59 PM
Amazing...

We get one of the top 5 LHP in all of minor league baseball along with Floyd for a guy who hasn't pitched and you ***** about that?

When you trade for a guy with only one option left, who has bounced from the majors to the minors enough times to eat up all his options? Yeah, I complain about that. You then are left with either keeping him on your starting roster or you have to move him from AAA to the majors once. After that, if you want to move him back to AAA, he has to clear waivers. So yeah, bad deal. You have limited options on what you can do with Floyd, and KW and the scouting staff either knew this and ignored it, or weren't aware of his option status and now are left with a pitcher we certainly can use short term, but to use him, he must remain on your MLB roster.

Then again, I think we know who KW would like to replace Mark with now, don't we?

southside rocks
07-04-2007, 08:06 AM
And again, if Floyd had only one option left, that deal was horrid (sans the fact that Freddie fell apart once getting to Philly.)

I don't think it was horrid, really ... the Sox had to be optimistic that they could straighten Floyd out, but there are risks in all trades where you send an established guy for a prospect. And they did net pretty good savings on Freddie's salary, so overall I would call that trade one that looks good so far but the real results aren't in yet.

But you might be totally right. I tend to be foolishly optimistic as a fan about the White Sox. It's probably what's kept me going for a lot of the past 4 decades.

jabrch
07-04-2007, 08:21 AM
You then are left with either keeping him on your starting roster or you have to move him from AAA to the majors once. After that, if you want to move him back to AAA, he has to clear waivers. So yeah, bad deal.

First off, that's not how it works. You can move him up or down as many time as you want within the one year. The one "option" is one full year of being able to move him up or down.

Second, you are completely ignoring Gio Gonzalez - the #2 or #3 ranked LHP in all of he minors when he was acquired.

And we gave up a $10mm contract for a guy who our management felt was toast.

Bad deal? No way.

Frontman
07-06-2007, 11:11 PM
First off, that's not how it works. You can move him up or down as many time as you want within the one year. The one "option" is one full year of being able to move him up or down.

Second, you are completely ignoring Gio Gonzalez - the #2 or #3 ranked LHP in all of he minors when he was acquired.

And we gave up a $10mm contract for a guy who our management felt was toast.

Bad deal? No way.

Is it still not a bad deal, jabrich? Is there a return or refund we can get? Because a broken down Freddie Garcia actually looks GOOD now.

Man, do the Sox stink now. They need a washing.

pearso66
07-06-2007, 11:31 PM
Is it still not a bad deal, jabrich? Is there a return or refund we can get? Because a broken down Freddie Garcia actually looks GOOD now.

Man, do the Sox stink now. They need a washing.

I still feel it was a good deal. It looks like Freddy could be done for the year, and he's a free agent I believe after this season. So the Sox got a question mark in Floyd, who only has 1 start in the majors this year, and while bad, I wouldn't call him a bust yet, and the main piece of the trade, Gio, who is still in the minors. Oh yeah, and they didn't have to pay Freddy his salary this year.

Who knows what KW could have gotten for him, nobody here thats for sure. There is only speculation on what he could have gotten. Maybe this was the best deal out there, and the fact that he only pitched a handful of games in Phily, I don't think this trade could lose, it could be a wash, but that's as bad as I think it could get, especially if Garcia doesn't pitch again this year. The Sox definitely wouldn't have signed him to an extension.

Frontman
07-06-2007, 11:38 PM
I still feel it was a good deal. It looks like Freddy could be done for the year, and he's a free agent I believe after this season. So the Sox got a question mark in Floyd, who only has 1 start in the majors this year, and while bad, I wouldn't call him a bust yet, and the main piece of the trade, Gio, who is still in the minors. Oh yeah, and they didn't have to pay Freddy his salary this year.

Who knows what KW could have gotten for him, nobody here thats for sure. There is only speculation on what he could have gotten. Maybe this was the best deal out there, and the fact that he only pitched a handful of games in Phily, I don't think this trade could lose, it could be a wash, but that's as bad as I think it could get, especially if Garcia doesn't pitch again this year. The Sox definitely wouldn't have signed him to an extension.

Yeah, but a player on the DL can't get his rear handed to him as badly as Floyd did. The whole thing is just horrid, and I just feel like "gallows humor" time.

I want to go back to winning; or even being in a close game and coming out with a L is better than putting up a 12 spot and getting bubkiss in return.

jabrch
07-06-2007, 11:40 PM
Is it still not a bad deal, jabrich? Is there a return or refund we can get? Because a broken down Freddie Garcia actually looks GOOD now.

Man, do the Sox stink now. They need a washing.

Yes - It is still not a bad deal.

We gave up a bad Freddy who'd have cost us 10mm for a bad Floyd who cost us nothing and Gio Gonzalez, one of the top LH SP in the minors.

pearso66
07-06-2007, 11:43 PM
Yeah, but a player on the DL can't get his rear handed to him as badly as Floyd did. The whole thing is just horrid, and I just feel like "gallows humor" time.

I want to go back to winning; or even being in a close game and coming out with a L is better than putting up a 12 spot and getting bubkiss in return.

I don't understand how being on the DL is better than potential, in Floyd and Gio. I'd rather have a guy who has a chance at succeeding instead of a given he won't get anything for you because he's on the DL.

We all want to get back to winning, The way they are playing makes me dread going to games this year. Last year it was fun, this year, it's horrible. It takes 6 hours out of my days at least, and I get to sit there and watch a team with no heart. Having Garcia back wouldn't change that one bit. He had a handful of starts, and wasn't very good. If he could hit .900 and be our DH with about 150 RBI's at this point, he would have been a bad deal, but we all know we wouldn't get that out of him.

Frontman
07-06-2007, 11:46 PM
I don't understand how being on the DL is better than potential, in Floyd and Gio. I'd rather have a guy who has a chance at succeeding instead of a given he won't get anything for you because he's on the DL.

We all want to get back to winning, The way they are playing makes me dread going to games this year. Last year it was fun, this year, it's horrible. It takes 6 hours out of my days at least, and I get to sit there and watch a team with no heart. Having Garcia back wouldn't change that one bit. He had a handful of starts, and wasn't very good. If he could hit .900 and be our DH with about 150 RBI's at this point, he would have been a bad deal, but we all know we wouldn't get that out of him.

Potential and a 1.75 can get you an iced coffee at Dunkin' Donuts.

Its called a joke. At least having Freddie would still keep the 2005 squad a bit closer together.

Ah nevermind. I'm just so bummed I can't even do good/bad jokes.

Um, hey, 19 days to Training Camp. Go Bears!

:(:

Ah hell, I'm off to watch my 2005 DVD's.

pearso66
07-06-2007, 11:48 PM
Potential and a 1.75 can get you an iced coffee at Dunkin' Donuts.

Its called a joke. At least having Freddie would still keep the 2005 squad a bit closer together.

Ah nevermind. I'm just so bummed I can't even do good/bad jokes.

Um, hey, 19 days to Training Camp. Go Bears!

:(:

Ah hell, I'm off to watch my 2005 DVD's.

I guess with all the crappy play, and the way some fans pine for past players, it wasn't too far of a stretch to think you were being serious.

Frontman
07-06-2007, 11:48 PM
I guess with all the crappy play, and the way some fans pine for past players, it wasn't too far of a stretch to think you were being serious.

Yeah, I forgot that teal is my friend.

soxfanreggie
07-07-2007, 10:05 AM
I think that people were expecting too much out of the Garcia trade right away. How many people actually expected us to see both Gio and Floyd up in the majors right away? You have to wait a year or two to see the full effects of this trade. If in a season or two, you see both Gio and Floyd in the rotation or even one of them doing well, I think it's a good trade. Plus, we were able to dump a lot of salary.

kitekrazy
07-07-2007, 03:13 PM
Like I said, I totally agree with the whole principle of Buehrle, and Garland who I put on the same level as Buehrle. I don't want Buehrle to go... but if, hypothetically, the Sox got a pair of hot prospects that were able to contribute at the MLB level within a year or two (would never happen unless the GM was a moron) I wouldn't hesitate. But deal him for fringe prospects? No thanks.

I think the Sox have enough of those "hot prospects" and "fringe prospects". Proven pitching is very hard to replace and it's very expensive on the FA market. If they don't get this yet, sell the team to someone who does. This is going to look really stupid if he is gone over some small "against Sox policy" issue while Vasquez is getting his $10M. Real stupid.

Frontman
07-07-2007, 07:53 PM
For those who chanted "resign Buehrle" from the 500 level, 3rd base side? Thank you. I'm glad to see we all feel that strongly about keeping Mark here in Chicago.

Heck, even my Twins friends who came in for the game threw their voice's in with ours, as they know what we're going through.

Let's keep Mark where he belongs. On the Southside of Chicago!

Domeshot17
07-07-2007, 08:56 PM
Where are you getting Gio as a top 2 or 3 lhp prospect. Hes good, but hes closer to 10th then top 3. He is 72nd on Baseball America's top 100 this year, behind plenty of other LHP http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/features/263445.html

russ99
07-07-2007, 08:59 PM
Here's a new ESPN story about negotiations that I came across: (apologies if posted already, way too many Buehrle threads)

Linky (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2929267)

If it's true, (anything about MB in the media is doubtful these days) it's a creative idea by Buehrle's representation to break the impasse, but it's even more against the Sox principles than the NTC.

If an substantial escalator would kick in if Mark is traded during the contract he'd be much more difficult to deal, and any trade partner would certainly want cash thrown in to defray part of the escalator.

Nice try by Mark's agent, but IMO Kenny would go for the full no-trade before he accepts something like this.

PorkChopExpress
07-08-2007, 07:53 AM
Here's a new ESPN story about negotiations that I came across: (apologies if posted already, way too many Buehrle threads)

Linky (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2929267)

If it's true, (anything about MB in the media is doubtful these days) it's a creative idea by Buehrle's representation to break the impasse, but it's even more against the Sox principles than the NTC.

If an substantial escalator would kick in if Mark is traded during the contract he'd be much more difficult to deal, and any trade partner would certainly want cash thrown in to defray part of the escalator.

Nice try by Mark's agent, but IMO Kenny would go for the full no-trade before he accepts something like this.

But if we were to trade him without the escalator, he would be a huge deal (assuming he maintains his current ability to pitch) in the future, essentially having given a hometown discount to every bidding team. The escalator only makes him fair value, what most teams would expect to pay him anyway. Any cash that would be sought from the Sox is really just a monor payout, like someone here suggested previously.

I think it is a great idea, and I think the Sox balking at it proves there stance is unreasonable. The Sox said "come to us with some way of breaking the impasse," and Beuhrle did, and now the Sox are saying, "we meant give in to our demands." I sae Eduardo Perez on Baseball Tonight last night saying pretty much the same thing. When one side is this unreasonable, a mutually satisfying result does not look likely. My one cent anyway (I'm keeping the other to start saving so I can afford my season tickets when they increase the price again next year).

Frontman
07-08-2007, 04:08 PM
The bottom line is Kenny Williams will do, and should do, what he feels is best for the future of the White Sox. Every fan could chant "We Want Buehrle" for 9 innings, but that isn't going to make KW do something he doesn't feel is in the best interests of the organization. Kenny Williams job is to field a World Series championship caliber team. If he can reach an agreement with Buehrle that he feels furthers that goal, I'm sure he will re-sign Buehrle. But Kenny isn't going to budge on what he feels is a bad deal because the fans start chanting "We want Buehrle." You think the White Sox organization doesn't know that fans want Buehrle back? Of course they do. They're not blind. They want Buehrle back, too, but only if it makes sense.

If it makes you feel better to chant something, feel free to do it. Hell, I'd probably join in if I was there. But don't expect a chant by the fans is going to be what gets a deal done. It's not like Kenny is going to hear fans chanting "We want Buehrle" and suddenly have some eye-opening moment where he realizes fans do want Buehrle to stay and then run to his phone to call Buehrle's agent and offer a full no-trade clause.

Well, in reply now, my friend. I feel a ton better that we did chant, and you are right, Kenny did what he thought was the best for the team by and large.

To all those who chanted, who knows if we made the differance. Either way, we had fun doing it, didn't we? :wink:

Jjav829
07-09-2007, 06:16 PM
Well, in reply now, my friend. I feel a ton better that we did chant, and you are right, Kenny did what he thought was the best for the team by and large.

To all those who chanted, who knows if we made the differance. Either way, we had fun doing it, didn't we? :wink:

Not sure what "Well, in reply now, my friend" means, but yes, in the end, KW did what he felt was best for the team.

If it makes you feel better to think your chants made a difference, then go ahead and pat yourself on the back. But my point still stands that the Sox knew how Sox fans felt about Buehrle and ultimately made the decision they felt was best for the team.

Frontman
07-09-2007, 06:20 PM
Not sure what "Well, in reply now, my friend" means, but yes, in the end, KW did what he felt was best for the team.


Meaning we can agree to disagree that it might of made a difference.

Now, I think the next time Mark takes the mound in Chicago, we really should chant "Thank you White Sox." or "Thank you Kenny."

Works both ways, of course.