PDA

View Full Version : It just hit me.


veeter
07-02-2007, 11:32 AM
Kenny is against the NTC or Limited NTC because the NY Yankees would undoubtedly be on Mark's 'NO' list. Also against it because, as been discussed, he's a 5 and 10 guy in two years, so he'd have to be dealt within the next two seasons, which the NTC screws up. My point being, that Kenny wants to sign Mark to the contract. They finish out the year. The Sox finishing very poorly, with fans upset, helping Kenny's cause. Then deal Mark and Crede (depending on health reports) or Mark and Fields and more, for one Alex Rodriguez. Kenny stops at nothing to aquire players he loves. He once offered another, contract expiring, fan favorite, Magglio Ordonez for him as well. Kenny and Cashman are buddies. However, if Cashman is fired KW doesn't have to move Mark to the Yanks because he's under contract. It's a win/ win for Kenny. I think trading MB at the deadline is the last thing Kenny wants to do, but he's also protected by, "well we tried", and "look at the great prospects we got for a guy who's not necessarily an ace". This is my theory, am I nuts?

RowanDye
07-02-2007, 11:45 AM
Kenny is against the NTC or Limited NTC because the NY Yankees would undoubtedly be on Mark's 'NO' list. Also against it because, as been discussed, he's a 5 and 10 guy in two years, so he'd have to be dealt within the next two seasons, which the NTC screws up. My point being, that Kenny wants to sign Mark to the contract. They finish out the year. The Sox finishing very poorly, with fans upset, helping Kenny's cause. Then deal Mark and Crede (depending on health reports) or Mark and Fields and more, for one Alex Rodriguez. Kenny stops at nothing to aquire players he loves. He once offered another, contract expiring, fan favorite, Magglio Ordonez for him as well. Kenny and Cashman are buddies. However, if Cashman is fired KW doesn't have to move Mark to the Yanks because he's under contract. It's a win/ win for Kenny. I think trading MB at the deadline is the last thing Kenny wants to do, but he's also protected by, "well we tried", and "look at the great prospects we got for a guy who's not necessarily an ace". This is my theory, am I nuts?

A-Rod has an option after this year. Which means he could be a free agent and the Yanks would have no control over trading him.

veeter
07-02-2007, 11:47 AM
A-Rod has an option after this year. Which means he could be a free agent and the Yanks would have no control over trading him.Damn informed Sox fan.:tongue:

RowanDye
07-02-2007, 12:10 PM
Damn informed Sox fan.:tongue:

Your idea got me thinking though. I wonder if an opt-out clause would sweeten the pot for Beuhrle to re-sign.

Something like a limited NTC with and opt-out clause after the 3rd year would give him some protection and preserve Kenny's principles.

I don't know if it would really help in Mark's case, but I wonder if they've considered it.

tebman
07-02-2007, 12:17 PM
Your idea got me thinking though. I wonder if an opt-out clause would sweeten the pot for Beuhrle to re-sign.

Something like a limited NTC with and opt-out clause after the 3rd year would give him some protection and preserve Kenny's principles.

I don't know if it would really help in Mark's case, but I wonder if they've considered it.
That's the kind of thing that occurred to me when I heard that the hangup was a no-trade clause. Since it seems everyone involved would like MB to stay, why couldn't opt-outs or preferred-team lists or some other condition be put on a NTC to make it work? Maybe with all the press hoo-hah over the last week KW feels cornered and now refuses to budge. I hope he's not that stubborn.

veeter
07-02-2007, 12:21 PM
So, nobody thinks the A-Rod thing is possible?

SBSoxFan
07-02-2007, 12:27 PM
So, nobody thinks the A-Rod thing is possible?

I think we'll see ARod and Ichiro on the (White) Sox next year. :D:

jabrch
07-02-2007, 12:29 PM
Your idea got me thinking though. I wonder if an opt-out clause would sweeten the pot for Beuhrle to re-sign.

Something like a limited NTC with and opt-out clause after the 3rd year would give him some protection and preserve Kenny's principles.

I don't know if it would really help in Mark's case, but I wonder if they've considered it.

I'd be even more opposed to an Opt Out clause than to a NTC. That's giving the player ALL of the upside and the club taking all of the risk.

tebman
07-02-2007, 12:30 PM
So, nobody thinks the A-Rod thing is possible?
Psst...it's okay. You can come out now. :redneck

To answer your question, anything is possible. But is it likely? I doubt it, partly because of the money involved with A-Rod, and partly because I don't think KW wants to build a team around a single superstar, which unfortunately is how it would be perceived.

The White Sox aren't in the same media-perception category as the Yankees and the distraction of the Sox becoming A-Rod and the Seven Dwarves would be tough on everybody. And I don't see one guy, even one as good as A-Rod, being enough to right the ship. The Sox need a steadier bullpen, more speed, and more minor-league depth to get through the injury stretches like they're in now. Rodriguez can't hit 5-run homers on every at-bat.

Foulke You
07-02-2007, 12:34 PM
I think the fact that they aren't budging on the no-trade clause is indicitive that KW has no intention of keeping Mark Buehrle for the duration of that deal regardless of length. He just doesn't want to keep a pitcher that long for some reason. Why he is thinking like this is beyond me because Buehrle has been "Steady Eddie" for the 7 years he has been here with no major injuries. It is obviously is a big issue for KW and it would be a shame if that is the reason Buehrle gets sent out of town.

veeter
07-02-2007, 12:40 PM
I think the fact that they aren't budging on the no-trade clause is indicitive that KW has no intention of keeping Mark Buehrle for the duration of that deal regardless of length. He just doesn't want to keep a pitcher that long for some reason. Why he is thinking like this is beyond me because Buehrle has been "Steady Eddie" for the 7 years he has been here with no major injuries. It is obviously is a big issue for KW and it would be a shame if that is the reason Buehrle gets sent out of town.Years from now my son is going to ask, "You mean to tell me the Sox had both Garland AND Buehrle, a championship under their belt, and they got rid of them in their prime?" This, as one of them is hoisting the trophy up for some other team. My only response will be, "Well it's complicated, but yes."

HotelWhiteSox
07-02-2007, 12:51 PM
How do we know who's on his list? I think he'd be suited pretty well in Yankee Stadium. I'm guessing it's more for bottom feeders, or some last resort type deal

oeo
07-02-2007, 01:18 PM
Kenny is against the NTC or Limited NTC because the NY Yankees would undoubtedly be on Mark's 'NO' list. Also against it because, as been discussed, he's a 5 and 10 guy in two years, so he'd have to be dealt within the next two seasons, which the NTC screws up. My point being, that Kenny wants to sign Mark to the contract. They finish out the year. The Sox finishing very poorly, with fans upset, helping Kenny's cause. Then deal Mark and Crede (depending on health reports) or Mark and Fields and more, for one Alex Rodriguez. Kenny stops at nothing to aquire players he loves. He once offered another, contract expiring, fan favorite, Magglio Ordonez for him as well. Kenny and Cashman are buddies. However, if Cashman is fired KW doesn't have to move Mark to the Yanks because he's under contract. It's a win/ win for Kenny. I think trading MB at the deadline is the last thing Kenny wants to do, but he's also protected by, "well we tried", and "look at the great prospects we got for a guy who's not necessarily an ace". This is my theory, am I nuts?

No, the White Sox offered him a Limited NTC. Mark's the one that doesn't want to compromise here.

How do we know who's on his list? I think he'd be suited pretty well in Yankee Stadium. I'm guessing it's more for bottom feeders, or some last resort type deal

Buehrle has stated that if he were to be traded to the Yankees, he would not follow their facial hair policy. Just a guess, but I'm sure he doesn't want to go there.

spiffie
07-02-2007, 01:21 PM
No, the White Sox offered him a Limited NTC. Mark's the one that doesn't want to compromise here.
Well, other than agreeing to take a significantly lower money deal, but what's $20 million dollars between friends?

103 screwball
07-02-2007, 01:27 PM
Just put in option years that kick in if he is traded. If he is traded, he gets player option years for years 5 and 6. If he in not traded, put in a mutual option with a buy out for the 5th year. Increase the cash for year 5 and 6 to 18 million per year. Then if he is traded, Mark effectively has a 6 year 92 million dollar contract if he chooses to utilize the option years. Give him a full no trade for the first year. Give him a partial no trade for the second year with a list of 10 teams he will not go to. Or, put in a bonus if he is traded. This can be worked out. The question is, do the Sox really want him back?

DumpJerry
07-02-2007, 01:36 PM
Veeter:

A-Rod is a Borass client. Need I say more?

veeter
07-02-2007, 01:41 PM
Veeter:

A-Rod is a Borass client. Need I say more?No, you don't need to say more. I've already taken my extra large classroom eraser and wiped away my complex theory from the chalkboard. But Oliver Stone called to negotiate the rights to the movie. It will be called, "The Greatest WSI Thread EVER."

DumpJerry
07-02-2007, 02:21 PM
No, you don't need to say more. I've already taken my extra large classroom eraser and wiped away my complex theory from the chalkboard. But Oliver Stone called to negotiate the rights to the movie. It will be called, "The Greatest WSI Thread EVER."
Hey, at a first look, your initial post makes sense.

IowaSox1971
07-02-2007, 02:41 PM
I think the fact that they aren't budging on the no-trade clause is indicitive that KW has no intention of keeping Mark Buehrle for the duration of that deal regardless of length. He just doesn't want to keep a pitcher that long for some reason. Why he is thinking like this is beyond me because Buehrle has been "Steady Eddie" for the 7 years he has been here with no major injuries. It is obviously is a big issue for KW and it would be a shame if that is the reason Buehrle gets sent out of town.



I disagree that Buehrle has been "steady." He had a mediocre season in 2003, when he was 14-14, and he was just 12-13 last year. So, in two of the past four full seasons, he has been, at best, mediocre.

And if you assess things objectively, he probably will follow the same pattern in the next four seasons, where he will have two mediocre seasons in that span. Is that worth $14 million per year over the next four years? Or should we spend, say, $9 million per year on one starter to replace Buehrle and $5 million per year to fill a need at another position, say at shortstop, outfield, bullpen help, etc.?

I would not be crazy about paying $14 million to a starting pitcher who, judging by his recent history, might go 12-13 next year. Danks right now is pitching better than Buehrle did last year, and he's probably making the minimum, or close to it. Believe it or not, there are some decent pitchers in the majors making less than $10 million or $14 million per season. So, it would not be impossible to fill out an affordable starting rotation if Buehrle leaves.

People need to realize that while Buehrle has been good or very good for most of his career, he has not been great, and at times he has been very average. It would be nice to keep him, but sometimes you might have to take a step back in order to take a few steps forward later on.

champagne030
07-02-2007, 02:54 PM
And if you assess things objectively, he probably will follow the same pattern in the next four seasons, where he will have two mediocre seasons in that span. Is that worth $14 million per year over the next four years? Or should we spend, say, $9 million per year on one starter to replace Buehrle and $5 million per year to fill a need at another position, say at shortstop, outfield, bullpen help, etc.?

Spend $9M on a Jason Marquis type pitcher who will suck ass for 2 seasons and put up two other below average seasons? I'll pass on that route.


People need to realize that while Buehrle has been good or very good for most of his career, he has not been great, and at times he has been very average. It would be nice to keep him, but sometimes you might have to take a step back in order to take a few steps forward later on.

Why don't we take a step back with Javy? He's making ~$12M. Dump his ass. He's accomplished a lot less than Mark and would be making nearly the same coin.

Nellie_Fox
07-02-2007, 03:00 PM
Just put in option years that kick in if he is traded. If he is traded, he gets player option years for years 5 and 6. If he in not traded, put in a mutual option with a buy out for the 5th year. Increase the cash for year 5 and 6 to 18 million per year. Then if he is traded, Mark effectively has a 6 year 92 million dollar contract if he chooses to utilize the option years. Give him a full no trade for the first year. Give him a partial no trade for the second year with a list of 10 teams he will not go to. Or, put in a bonus if he is traded. This can be worked out. The question is, do the Sox really want him back?Do you understand how much those player option years would diminish his trade value?

Bill Naharodny
07-02-2007, 03:06 PM
Years from now my son is going to ask, "You mean to tell me the Sox had both Garland AND Buehrle, a championship under their belt, and they got rid of them in their prime?" This, as one of them is hoisting the trophy up for some other team. My only response will be, "Well it's complicated, but yes."

And then, Veeter, he'll say, "How was it complicated?" And you'll pause for a minute and realize that it wasn't. He wanted to stay here, at substantially less money than he was worth, for a few years. And the White Sox said no.

103 screwball
07-02-2007, 06:04 PM
Do you understand how much those player option years would diminish his trade value?

Yes, and if I'm Mark, I'm not interested in my trade value if I'm taking a discount to stay. The numbers are flexible. My point is that if the 2 sides are creative with options or bonuses, Marks interests and the Sox interests can be partially protected with a compromise. Sounds like Mark's side is already giving up years and cash. The Sox will have to give something if they won't give him a NTC.

wassagstdu
07-02-2007, 06:45 PM
Do you understand how much those player option years would diminish his trade value?
Which is what this is apparently all about.

If the Sox dump Buehrle, we can get Ichiro or ARod. If they can get him to sign without a NTC we can trade him and get both Ichiro and ARod!!

esbrechtel
07-02-2007, 06:46 PM
Which is what this is apparently all about.

If the Sox dump Buehrle, we can get Ichiro or ARod. If they can get him to sign without a NTC we can trade him and get both Ichiro and ARod!!


What a great idea!!!! Fire Kenny, Wassagstdu for the new GM!

Jjav829
07-02-2007, 07:16 PM
I have good aim. :bandance: