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View Full Version : LA Times on Buehrle for Kemp & Dye talk...


WhiteSoxFan84
07-02-2007, 03:36 AM
Linkage (http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-dodrep2jul02,1,3343480.story?coll=la-headlines-sports&track=crosspromo)

The Dodgers and Chicago White Sox have discussed a trade that would bring left-hander Mark Buehrle to Los Angeles, with the White Sox believed to be most interested in outfielder Matt Kemp.

The Dodgers do not appear interested in that one-on-one trade at this time. It is uncertain whether the White Sox would want more than Kemp for Buehrle or would consider a trade that did not involve Kemp. When the Dodgers and White Sox spoke about outfielder Jermaine Dye this season, the White Sox were believed to be interested in pitchers Chad Billingsley and Jonathan Broxton.

That Kemp kid looks like the goods. The guy is only 22 years old (turning 23 in late September) and is already kicking ass in AAA. Here are his stats in AAA this season...

161 AB, .329 AVG, .374 OBP, .540 SLG, .914 OPS
32 R, 53 H, 16 2B, 3 3B, 4 HR, 20 RBI
9/11 SB, 10 BB, 26 K

He did VERY well in his brief stint in the majors this year. He had a .400 batting average getting 26 hits in 65 ABs. He also had 2 HR, 9 RBI, and 3 stolen bases in 4 attempts. His only weakness seems to be strikeouts. He struckout 19 times in those 65 ABs.


I'd hope Kenny would ask for more than just Kemp, but this guy seems like he's the real deal AND MLB ready at the age of 22.

chitownhawkfan
07-02-2007, 04:43 AM
Its almost as good as having Mark for the next 4 years! Oh wait, no it isn't, give him the ****ing NTC and get this **** over with.

Jjav829
07-02-2007, 07:57 AM
Get Kemp and Billingsley in any Dodgers trade, Kenny. :smile:

veeter
07-02-2007, 09:55 AM
Hey Kenny, I Thought We Weren't Going To Be Prospects-r-us, You ****ing Liar.

mccoydp
07-02-2007, 10:00 AM
His only weakness seems to be strikeouts. He struckout 19 times in those 65 ABs.


Gosh, he'd fit right in on the Sox.

russ99
07-02-2007, 10:27 AM
Hey Kenny, I Thought We Weren't Going To Be Prospects-r-us, You ****ing Liar.

Amen. I'd much rather get Milledge, who really can play in the majors now, and one of the Met prospects for Buerhle. If the Sox really want that Dodger prospect, trade Dye if he's ever healthy again this season.

jabrch
07-02-2007, 10:50 AM
Hey Kenny, I Thought We Weren't Going To Be Prospects-r-us, You ****ing Liar.

That's plain old ignorant. Nobody said we are going to be "prospects-r-us". Trading Mark for prospects leaves us 14mm to go out and sign a high end offensive player. Given our organizational depth in the rotation, and our offensive situation, I don't see any other option if Mark is going to be so stubborn and demand a NTC. Full NTCs, certainly for guys coming up to 10/5, are terrible ideas for clubs. Kudos to Kenny for standing up to players and agents trying to bully him into doing something dumb as the trade deadline approaches.

Its almost as good as having Mark for the next 4 years! Oh wait, no it isn't, give him the ****ing NTC and get this **** over with.

If we can get Kemp and Billingsley and still have 14mm to spend on someone else, and Kenny chooses to keep Mark and his 3.80/1.25 career line, that would likely end up being a bigger mistake.

jabrch
07-02-2007, 10:56 AM
Amen. I'd much rather get Milledge, who really can play in the majors now, and one of the Met prospects for Buerhle. If the Sox really want that Dodger prospect, trade Dye if he's ever healthy again this season.

Why do you think Milledge is better than Kemp? Milledge hit .277 in AAA last year and has been (IIRC) hurt much of this season. I really don't like going after prospects that can't really HIT well in the minors. Walking a lot in the minors doesn't mean you will do the same against MLB pitchers, and when you are hitting in the back of a MLB lineup.

He's the third best OF prospect in their system. If we were talking to the Mets, I'd want Martinez or Gomez and Humber or Pelfrey. I don't think Milledge is any better than the guys we have in our system right now (Sweeney/Anderson)

sircaffey1
07-02-2007, 11:45 AM
Get Kemp immediately. The guy's a stud. Anyone who would choose Milledge over Kemp is nuts.

Tragg
07-02-2007, 11:51 AM
Amen. I'd much rather get Milledge, who really can play in the majors now, and one of the Met prospects for Buerhle. If the Sox really want that Dodger prospect, trade Dye if he's ever healthy again this season.
Not to be flip, but Milledge is doing a whole lot of not playing for someone who can play and who's been hyped for so long.
I say avoid Milledge and definitely avoid Mets pitching prospects. Counterfeit goods.

Noneck
07-02-2007, 11:52 AM
The Dodgers are 1 game out. Why would they trade Billingsley or Broxton? Teams that are in the hunt are not going to trade pitchers.

The Immigrant
07-02-2007, 11:59 AM
The Dodgers are 1 game out. Why would they trade Billingsley or Broxton? Teams that are in the hunt are not going to trade pitchers.

Particularly when (a) Billingsley just threw seven innings of 3-hit ball to beat the Padres on Sunday and (b) Broxton hasn't allowed a run since June 7.

:smokin:

WhiteSoxFan84
07-02-2007, 12:08 PM
If KW can land Kemp AND one of those pitchers (I don't see them trading Billingsley) for Buehrle and Dye, I'd be happy ONLY if he goes out and uses the money he saved on MB and JD to bring Ichiro to the southside. We'd also need another power hitter and that's something he will have to take care of as well.

PennStater98r
07-02-2007, 01:34 PM
That's plain old ignorant. Nobody said we are going to be "prospects-r-us". Trading Mark for prospects leaves us 14mm to go out and sign a high end offensive player. Given our organizational depth in the rotation, and our offensive situation, I don't see any other option if Mark is going to be so stubborn and demand a NTC. Full NTCs, certainly for guys coming up to 10/5, are terrible ideas for clubs. Kudos to Kenny for standing up to players and agents trying to bully him into doing something dumb as the trade deadline approaches.



If we can get Kemp and Billingsley and still have 14mm to spend on someone else, and Kenny chooses to keep Mark and his 3.80/1.25 career line, that would likely end up being a bigger mistake.

:thumbsup:

Lip Man 1
07-02-2007, 01:38 PM
Actually I believe it's been Ozzie who has been quoted on more then one occasion as saying along the lines of, 'we're here to win, not develop players, you get to the big leagues you need to be ready to win.' which I agree with 100%.

These aren't the Royals, Pirates and Devil Rays.

And hasn't Kemp been hurt a few times already or am I confusing him with another Dodger outfielder who has been up and down the past few seasons from the big club to the minors because of ailments?

Lip

oeo
07-02-2007, 01:40 PM
Not to be flip, but Milledge is doing a whole lot of not playing for someone who can play and who's been hyped for so long.
I say avoid Milledge and definitely avoid Mets pitching prospects. Counterfeit goods.

Finally someone said it...Milledge is overrated, and if you ask Mets fans, they think Pelfrey is too.

Mr. White Sox
07-02-2007, 03:08 PM
Get Kemp and Billingsley in any Dodgers trade, Kenny. :smile:

Sadly enough, Billingsley has been absolutely incredible recently (as we thought he'd be). I doubt he gets traded now unless KW starts opening up Garland trade talks.

Bill Naharodny
07-02-2007, 03:11 PM
If KW can land Kemp AND one of those pitchers (I don't see them trading Billingsley) for Buehrle and Dye, I'd be happy ONLY if he goes out and uses the money he saved on MB and JD to bring Ichiro to the southside. We'd also need another power hitter and that's something he will have to take care of as well.

Under the scenario you've described, guess the date on which Kenny Williams will say the following this offseason, regading Ichiro:

"I don't comment on White Sox negotiations with players. But we made competitive offers for players we thought would help our organization. They just didn't work out, which happens in this game."

lakeviewsoxfan
07-03-2007, 09:41 PM
Kemp looks like the real deal, he has a great plate presence and raw power, he absolutley crushed a Smoltz fastball last night.

Tragg
07-03-2007, 11:14 PM
Finally someone said it...Milledge is overrated, and if you ask Mets fans, they think Pelfrey is too. The Mets AAA team is in New Orleans, and I've seen Pelfrey pitch in person and on TV a few times and he doesn't make me think "elite". I'm no scout, but I don't get it.

thomas35forever
07-03-2007, 11:30 PM
I heard from a source that Broxton throws the ball hard. Get on the phone and get him, Kenny. Here's a guy that maybe won't bust this time.

Brian26
07-03-2007, 11:48 PM
I heard from a source that Broxton throws the ball hard. Get on the phone and get him, Kenny. Here's a guy that maybe won't bust this time.

I'm not sure Dye would bring the Dodgers batboy in a trade, let alone Broxton or Billingsley at this point. Honestly, someone would be crazy to give up a decent prospect for three months of Dye batting .220.

Tragg
07-04-2007, 11:07 AM
How do we rebuild this team without trading a front-line starter or 2 top pitching prospects?

The better prospects, while I wish they'd play instead of Ozzie's hackers, probably aren't ready anyway. (Ozzie's hackers never will be ready).

Noneck
07-04-2007, 11:23 AM
How do we rebuild this team without trading a front-line starter or 2 top pitching prospects?

The better prospects, while I wish they'd play instead of Ozzie's hackers, probably aren't ready anyway. (Ozzie's hackers never will be ready).

Who are the better prospects? (excluding pitchers)

Lip Man 1
07-04-2007, 01:21 PM
Tragg:

Believe it or not there are actually ways to 'rebuild' the team without having to trade a front line starter for prospects.

However I don't know if that way (or ways) figure into the Sox 'philosophy'.

Lip

santo=dorf
07-04-2007, 01:42 PM
Actually I believe it's been Ozzie who has been quoted on more then one occasion as saying along the lines of, 'we're here to win, not develop players, you get to the big leagues you need to be ready to win.' which I agree with 100%.

These aren't the Royals, Pirates and Devil Rays.

And hasn't Kemp been hurt a few times already or am I confusing him with another Dodger outfielder who has been up and down the past few seasons from the big club to the minors because of ailments?

Lip
Kemp is best known to the White Sox organization for his role in a brawl in AA against Birmingham and punching our current third base coach in the face.

I don't think the Sox will go after him.

oeo
07-04-2007, 01:45 PM
Kemp is best known to the White Sox organization for his role in a brawl in AA against Birmingham and punching our current third base coach in the face.

I don't think the Sox will go after him.

Haha...that's pretty funny. Shines deserves a couple of punches to face for some of his decisions at third this year.

Tragg
07-04-2007, 01:46 PM
Tragg:

Believe it or not there are actually ways to 'rebuild' the team without having to trade a front line starter for prospects.

However I don't know if that way (or ways) figure into the Sox 'philosophy'.

Lip
Okay - trade other players; don't have any to trade.
Grow your own...we don't have any players ready to take over.
Sign free agents....I guess that's the philosophy we don't use. We'll sign some, but the moderate to cheap ones. Who are we going to sign- Rowand? Come on. WE need power and/or speed from hitters; we need a leadoff hitter. Corey Patterson? No way. Andru Jones? Sox don't sign high priced FA usually and he's having an awful year. Ichiro? Seattle will re-sign him.
I don't see any of the above working.
In our situation, I don't see any other way. But obviously it creates other problems - like a hole in the rotation which are hard to fill.

Noneck I would say Sweeney and Anderson top the list..perhaps the infielder we just traded for.

oeo
07-04-2007, 01:50 PM
Okay - trade other players; don't have any to trade.
Grow your own...we don't have any players ready to take over.
Sign free agents....I guess that's the philosophy we don't use. We'll sign some, but the moderate to cheap ones.
I don't see that working.

Noneck I would say Sweeney and Anderson top the list..perhaps the infielder we just traded for.

Lip's plan is to sign free agents. The only problem with that is we may get a good year out of them, but then their age shows. We'll be right back where we are today in a couple of years if our plan going into 2008 is to bring all aging veterans in (and Eckstein, Castillo, etc. are aging veterans).

Lip Man 1
07-04-2007, 06:57 PM
OEO:

* You can also take a small gamble on Rule 5 players which I don't recall the Sox doing the past few years. Some solid contributors have come out of it and they aren't 35 years old either.

* You can also start seeing what it would take to get top international talent.

* and yes you can aggressively hit the free agent market while buying yourself some time to try to 'rebuild' the farm system so that maybe, just maybe, one or (gasp) two guys can actually come to the Sox in two or three seasons, replace some of the older free agents and not embarrass themselves.

My point is the only thing stopping the Sox from increasing their options to get talent in any way, shape or form that they can, is the White Sox themselves.

If the Sox 'only' option is to trade quality starting pitchers which are rarer then hen's teeth for prospects who may turn out great or fall flat on their faces, then as stated by Front, that indicates a much, much bigger problem in the organization and the people in charge of it.

Personally the last thing I do, the very last, is trade ANY pitching that I think is worth holding on to. It doesn't matter if you rebuild the middle infield or the outfield this year, next year or in four years, if you don't have guys who can get opposing hitters out, it doesn't matter one iota.

PITCHING wins pennants.

Lip

FarWestChicago
07-04-2007, 08:55 PM
Tragg:

Believe it or not there are actually ways to 'rebuild' the team without having to trade a front line starter for prospects.

However I don't know if that way (or ways) figure into the Sox 'philosophy'.

LipGive it a friggin' rest, Lip. We all know your rebuilding method is to spend $467 million on payroll. Believe it or not, that notion is just plain silly; no matter how much you like spending other people's money.

FarWestChicago
07-04-2007, 08:57 PM
Lip's plan is to sign free agents. The only problem with that is we may get a good year out of them, but then their age shows. We'll be right back where we are today in a couple of years if our plan going into 2008 is to bring all aging veterans in (and Eckstein, Castillo, etc. are aging veterans).It doesn't matter if they age. In Lip's world you just spend more. Hey, there's no salary cap. What's wrong with a billion dollar payroll? JR is rich. The cheap bastard can afford it. :D:

Slats
07-04-2007, 10:29 PM
I just figured it out

Lip is actually Jim Hendry..... :tongue: :D:

The Immigrant
07-04-2007, 10:38 PM
We'd be lucky to get a bag of balls for Dye. His average is down to .219. :(:

The Immigrant
07-04-2007, 10:39 PM
I just figured it out

Lip is actually Jim Hendry..... :tongue: :D:

You might have a point...if the Sox didn't have both a higher team payroll and more aging veterans than the Cubs.

Lip Man 1
07-04-2007, 10:44 PM
West:

Welcome back! I missed you.

Well I'd like to hear your appraisal of things and how to turn it around in a short period of time.

I've offered my opinion. You obviously don't care for it...well and good.

So I'd like the chance to hear your solution.

Lip

Lip Man 1
07-04-2007, 10:56 PM
Immigrant:

The Sox have a higher payroll then the Cubs?

Didn't realize that, although I sure in a few years when you have the deals like for Soariano kick in it's going to rise pretty dramatically.

Lip

anewman35
07-04-2007, 11:05 PM
Immigrant:

The Sox have a higher payroll then the Cubs?

Didn't realize that, although I sure in a few years when you have the deals like for Soariano kick in it's going to rise pretty dramatically.


At the beginning of this season, the Sox payroll was $ 108,671,833 and the Cubs was $ 99,670,332. I don't think this includes cash payments between teams, so depending on how you look at it the payrolls are probably about the same. Soriano's contract details:

The breakdown of Alfonso Soriano’s eight-year, $136 million contract with the Cubs: $8 million signing bonus, $9 million in 2007, $13 million in ‘08, $16 million in ‘09 and $18 million per season from '10 to ‘14.

I'm not sure how that 8 million was counted in the payroll numbers above.

FarWestChicago
07-05-2007, 08:14 PM
West:

Welcome back! I missed you.

Well I'd like to hear your appraisal of things and how to turn it around in a short period of time.

I've offered my opinion. You obviously don't care for it...well and good.

So I'd like the chance to hear your solution.

LipI don't claim to know how to fix it. I just think trying to outspend the Skanks may not be the best way to go. If you look at it, it's been a while since anybody bought a title.

balke
07-06-2007, 09:37 AM
We'd be lucky to get a bag of balls for Dye. His average is down to .219. :(:

If that's true, hopefully the Sox can give a bag of balls for Andruw Jones. And then sign him for bags of peanuts.