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View Full Version : *Official* One Loss Streak 6/29/07 Postgame Thread


Viva Medias B's
06-29-2007, 09:46 PM
We didn't play well tonight. Not to make excuses for it, but getting in late from Tampa Bay probably didn't do us any favors.

CLR01
06-29-2007, 09:48 PM
Nothing like a punch to the gut to bring you back to reality.

SOXandILLINI
06-29-2007, 09:50 PM
I guess we can't even continue beating up on the lil sisters of the poor. I really hope that little "streak" against the rays didn't get anyone excited.

WhiteSox5187
06-29-2007, 09:50 PM
Jose hurts his trade value everytime he takes the mound. Perhaps we oughta just send teams a tape of him from the second half of 2005.

JB98
06-29-2007, 09:54 PM
Jose hurts his trade value everytime he takes the mound. Perhaps we oughta just send teams a tape of him from the second half of 2005.

Yeah, that's the disappointing part about tonight. We lost. So what? We've lost 43 already, and we'll probably lose 43 more before all is said and done.

But I'd like to get some value for Contreras before July 31.

veeter
06-29-2007, 10:02 PM
KC is building quite the line-up. With all these high draft picks they've got some studs. Ever more meaning Kenny has to maintain his focus on great pitching. (Please get MB signed). I just can't wait for SOME move, ANY move to happen. I'll never forget the four glorious days in Tampa, FL in late June 2007.

WhiteSox5187
06-29-2007, 10:03 PM
Yeah, that's the disappointing part about tonight. We lost. So what? We've lost 43 already, and we'll probably lose 43 more before all is said and done.

But I'd like to get some value for Contreras before July 31.
Really I find myself rooting for players to have good nights so they can boost the trade value. It's like "C'mon Rob! Get a hit! Get that average over .230!" A White Sox win is a bonus really. This team ain't going anywhere. We might be able to get close to .500 but anyone who thinks we're going to the playoffs is nuts. It's time to start looking towards 2008. But we might be looking towards 2010. So much of it depends on what we're doing with Buerhle.

DickAllen72
06-29-2007, 10:04 PM
Jose hurts his trade value everytime he takes the mound. Perhaps we oughta just send teams a tape of him from the second half of 2005.
Contreras better cut down on that drop-down side-arm crap and go back to throwing majority of his pitches over the top, using the drop-down only once in a while to fool hitters not most of the time as he's been doing.

Cooper shouldn't have encouraged him to drop down so much last year. I remember when Jose was still going strong Coop was talking about adding yet another angle to his delivery to make him "even more dominant." It seems as since then he has forgotten about throwing over the top and has fallen in love with the sidearm slot. He's not been as effective since.

WhiteSox5187
06-29-2007, 10:06 PM
Contreras better cut down on that drop-down side-arm crap and go back to throwing majority of his pitches over the top, using the drop-down only once in a while to fool hitters not most of the time as he's been doing.

Cooper shouldn't have encouraged him to drop down so much last year. I remember when Jose was still going strong Coop was talking about adding yet another angle to his delivery to make him "even more dominant." It seems as since then he has forgotten about throwing over the top and has fallen in love with the sidearm slot. He's not been as effective since.
Fire Cooper!!!!

There's also the fact to consider that Jose is like, fifty five. It's hard to be good when you need a walker to walk to the mound.

JB98
06-29-2007, 10:07 PM
Contreras better cut down on that drop-down side-arm crap and go back to throwing majority of his pitches over the top, using the drop-down only once in a while to fool hitters not most of the time as he's been doing.

Cooper shouldn't have encouraged him to drop down so much last year. I remember when Jose was still going strong Coop was talking about adding yet another angle to his delivery to make him "even more dominant." It seems as since then he has forgotten about throwing over the top and has fallen in love with the sidearm slot. He's not been as effective since.

He falls in love with the splitter when he gets in trouble too. I realize that is his out pitch, but it's far more effective when he spots his fastball to set it up.

Too often, I see Jose trying to get out of trouble by throwing guys four or five consecutive splitters. They know it's coming, they can lay off it when it's down in the zone. If it's up, it's a hittable pitch.

CLR01
06-29-2007, 10:08 PM
need a walker to walk

At least he is doing something to help the team. http://whitesoxinteractive.com/chisox716/shrug.gif

Viva Medias B's
06-29-2007, 10:17 PM
Fire Cooper!!!!

There's also the fact to consider that Jose is like, fifty five. It's hard to be good when you need a walker to walk to the mound.

I could have sworn I saw Willard Scott on the "Today" show grant birthday wishes to Jose.

:tongue:

MRM
06-29-2007, 10:43 PM
I remember when Jose was still going strong Coop was talking about adding yet another angle to his delivery to make him "even more dominant."

You remember wrong. When Jose was dominant he WAS using 3 different arm angles. When he started struggling Coop took one of them away, because he wasn't throwing strikes with it.

DickAllen72
06-29-2007, 10:51 PM
You remember wrong. When Jose was dominant he WAS using 3 different arm angles. When he started struggling Coop took one of them away, because he wasn't throwing strikes with it.
Nope. I distinctly remember Coop talking about adding yet another arm angle last year while he was still dominating to make him even more dominant. It was kind of funny at the time because he was already probably the best pitcher in baseball at the time.

Now it's true that when Jose first became the dominant pitcher it was because El Duque advised him to start "pitching like a Cuban again" by changing arm angles. But he was still throwing most of his pitches from over the top and using the drop-down as a change of pace fooling the hitters. Lately it looks like he's throwing the vast majority of his pitches sidearm.

Edit: Here's a story from the Southtown from last June:

As if Jose Contreras hasn't caused opponents enough problems with his overhand and sidearm deliveries, the right-hander has added another arm angle to his repertoire.
Part of the reason why Contreras struggled during Thursday's start in Cleveland was that he was dropping his overhand delivery into a three-quarter arm slot, thereby diminishing his control.

Instead of rigidly correcting the arm angles, Contreras and Sox pitching coach Don Cooper have decided to embrace the change. Contreras might introduce the new look in today's start against Detroit.

"We are not going to stifle someone's creativity," Cooper said. "He has some good pitches from the three-quarter angle, too. I think the challenge is going to be, when he added in the lower angle, at first he was getting in between at times.

"Now we're trying to master the third in there. We were talking more about realizing when he needs a big pitch, where's the correct angle for that pitch."

If Contreras were the face of a clock, his overhand delivery would put his right arm at roughly 11 while the three-quarter angle would be around 10.

"I was throwing all my stuff here (over the top) then I (mistakenly) dropped down to three-quarters," Contreras said of Thursday's start against Cleveland. "So far (the three-quarter angle is) looking good. Now I have to stay concentrated on my arm angles and throw where I want to throw."

He has enough choices.

"He's got about 10 different pitches from about 10 different angles," Cooper said. http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t50852.html

Now while searching for that I did find some later articles in which Coop stated that Contreras was struggling due to the 3/4 angle and was trying to get Jose to abandon it.

Still, my point stands that as of today, Jose is throwing too many side-arm pitches and not enough from over the top like he used to do.

Tragg
06-29-2007, 10:57 PM
We may be the worst team in this division; it might be we need to trade whoever someone is willing to give an immense amount for....we don't have any superstars on the team right now, and we aren't good enough, so if someone absolutely positively wants one of our players, so be it.

WhiteSox5187
06-29-2007, 11:01 PM
We may be the worst team in this division; it might be we need to trade whoever someone is willing to give an immense amount for....we don't have any superstars on the team right now, and we aren't good enough, so if someone absolutely positively wants one of our players, so be it.
I agree that right now we're one of the worst teams in our division, but I think there are parts of this team worth keeping. If we can re-sign Buerhle, I say do it. But if someone is giving us the farm for Dye, yea I'd do that in a second. I think we're screwed for 2007 but I think that with a couple of moves here and there this team could compete in 2008. This team doesn't need a facelift, it jsut needs a bit of a makeover is all.

Viva Medias B's
06-29-2007, 11:01 PM
We may be the worst team in this division; it might be we need to trade whoever someone is willing to give an immense amount for....we don't have any superstars on the team right now, and we aren't good enough, so if someone absolutely positively wants one of our players, so be it.

There is never a shortage of stupid GM's out there. If we take advantage of them and build a team capable of being the 2008-09 World Series champions, let's go for it!

eriqjaffe
06-29-2007, 11:02 PM
We've lost 43 already, and we'll probably lose 43 more before all is said and done.If this team ends up with only 86 losses, I'll be extremely surprised.

JB98
06-29-2007, 11:04 PM
If this team ends up with only 86 losses, I'll be extremely surprised.

If we play .500 ball the rest of the year, we'll be 76-86. It could happen.

I realize we are 9-23 in our last 32, but we're not going to play sub-.300 ball for the rest of the year.

Tragg
06-29-2007, 11:14 PM
I agree that right now we're one of the worst teams in our division, but I think there are parts of this team worth keeping.
Oh I think we have several really good players; I just don't see anyone so compelling that he's non-tradeable at any price. I wouldn't trade just to trade; but is someone is really desparate (I keep thinking Brewers) I hope they shop on the southside.

Nellie_Fox
06-30-2007, 01:05 AM
Hey, A.T. Money (and many, many others) have you noticed that tonight's thread is shorter after a loss than last night's was after a win?

wassagstdu
06-30-2007, 06:44 AM
The last 4 losses have been to better teams. Where is the shame in that?

Tragg
06-30-2007, 09:05 AM
The last 4 losses have been to better teams. Where is the shame in that?
A lot: that the cubs and/or royals are better is far more unsettling (and worthy of more interesting discussion) than simply losing to them. But, that's what what's the Score is for.

soxfanatlanta
06-30-2007, 11:15 AM
Back to reality, I guess.

RowanDye
06-30-2007, 11:47 AM
Hey, A.T. Money (and many, many others) have you noticed that tonight's thread is shorter after a loss than last night's was after a win?

"Some people confuse acceptance with apathy, but there's all the difference in the world. Apathy fails to distinguish between what can and what cannot be helped; acceptance makes that distinction. Apathy paralyzes the will-to-action; acceptance frees it by relieving it of impossible burdens."
~ Arthur Gordon

Foulke You
06-30-2007, 01:41 PM
I had a feeling we were going to lose that one last night because Bannister was pitching and I remember he made us look pretty bad earlier in the year (before we went completely south). It'd be nice to take the series and keep some positive momentum going. I really hope the Sox stay out of the cellar, the media is licking their chops at the prospect of the Sox falling into last place.:(: