PDA

View Full Version : Are we going to let the SCORE get away with this?


Gammons Peter
06-28-2007, 09:15 AM
I just went back and re-read the posts in the first Buehrle thread. The absolute joy that posters had around 11:00 yesterday was nice to see. It was a brief moment of happiness in what has been one of the most disappointing baseball seasons I can remember in over 30 years of being a fan. Apparently the SCORE jumped the gun, or was it total fabrication to drive up sagging ratings. Either way they need to be held accountable, this is unacceptable journalism.

tebman
06-28-2007, 09:43 AM
I just went back and re-read the posts in the first Buehrle thread. The absolute joy that posters had around 11:00 yesterday was nice to see. It was a brief moment of happiness in what has been one of the most disappointing baseball seasons I can remember in over 30 years of being a fan. Apparently the SCORE jumped the gun, or was it total fabrication to drive up sagging ratings. Either way they need to be held accountable, this is unacceptable journalism.
If it turns out Buehrle doesn't re-sign there will be peasants with torches and pitchforks at the USCF gates. WSCR and Joe Cowley will then be reporting that KW screwed it up, not that they jumped the gun when they reported that a deal was "close."

I'd like to see bubbleheads like the ones at WSCR held accountable too, but what are we gonna do? Those jokers are just moths drawn to flame, whether the flame is a triumphal torch or a funeral pyre. How do you think Mariotti keeps his job? "Look! Over here! I knew it!" Then a few minutes later, "No, wait, over here! Look at this! I thought so!"

Let the vapid WSCR yakkers and the alarmists at the newspapers live out their hollow lives. If Buehrle doesn't re-sign after all we've known for several years, it's Ken Williams who should hear from us, not the carnival barkers on the radio.

soxfan13
06-28-2007, 09:44 AM
I just went back and re-read the posts in the first Buehrle thread. The absolute joy that posters had around 11:00 yesterday was nice to see. It was a brief moment of happiness in what has been one of the most disappointing baseball seasons I can remember in over 30 years of being a fan. Apparently the SCORE jumped the gun, or was it total fabrication to drive up sagging ratings. Either way they need to be held accountable, this is unacceptable journalism.

The score wasnt the only media outlet reporting a deal supposedly in the making

balke
06-28-2007, 10:09 AM
The Score and The Sun-Times. Everyone else pretty much called it speculation, or cited the Score or the Sun-Times.

The Score is the only outlet that at one time reported the deal was done from my understanding.

Gammons Peter
06-28-2007, 10:11 AM
All other sources (the actual people involved and AM1000) flat out stated that NOTHING was happening

Luke
06-28-2007, 10:17 AM
I don't think they (WSCR, The Suntimes) made up a story for ratings. If they were to do that I would hope they could fabricate something better than that. I think they just got bad, or incomplete information, and ran with it.

balke
06-28-2007, 10:47 AM
I don't think they (WSCR, The Suntimes) made up a story for ratings. If they were to do that I would hope they could fabricate something better than that. I think they just got bad, or incomplete information, and ran with it.

That's not responsible journalism. They need better sources, or more restraint. I'm already ticked at the score after I tuned into North attacking Coop who comes on the show every Thursday to give reports about the White Sox. It was a total cheap shot ambush, asking him if they were going to "lay down" and going on and on.

kevingrt
06-28-2007, 10:47 AM
I don't think they (WSCR, The Suntimes) made up a story for ratings. If they were to do that I would hope they could fabricate something better than that. I think they just got bad, or incomplete information, and ran with it.

The sad thing is someone leaked it to them. Who could it have been and from what camp Burls or Sox?

jenn2080
06-28-2007, 10:49 AM
Yeah lets go and kick their ass. They should not have reported something they were told.

Luke
06-28-2007, 10:53 AM
It was completely sloppy journalism. I know they're under a lot of pressure to scoop everyone on the story, but that's no excuse.

PatK
06-28-2007, 12:28 PM
You expect professional journalism from the Score?

They've got Murphy doing a show, for Pete's sake.

TDog
06-28-2007, 12:36 PM
It was completely sloppy journalism. I know they're under a lot of pressure to scoop everyone on the story, but that's no excuse.

Sports journalism is an oxymoron. Professional standards do not apply to sports reporting. Ethics only apply to the extent that a reporter can be fired for getting an autograph while covering baseball players.

For example, most publications have standards that don't permit reporters to use unnamed sources (although often they will run wire stories that use unnamed sources because it's news before they report it). If you took the unnamed sources out of sports reporting, you would have a lot fewer stories on the sports page.

Luke
06-28-2007, 12:54 PM
Sports journalism is an oxymoron. Professional standards do not apply to sports reporting. Ethics only apply to the extent that a reporter can be fired for getting an autograph while covering baseball players.

For example, most publications have standards that don't permit reporters to use unnamed sources (although often they will run wire stories that use unnamed sources because it's news before they report it). If you took the unnamed sources out of sports reporting, you would have a lot fewer stories on the sports page.

That's where I was trying to go. It's become common place to cite unamed sources in the sports world. I think that's just a nice way to say "unsubstantiated rumors"

cws05champ
06-28-2007, 12:58 PM
"Sports Journalism" The word Journalism can not be applied to Sports radio blow hards. They live by a lot fewer rules/guidelines as far as reporting, because their whole schtick is just to get noticed and pull in listeners any way possible. Also, most of these guys are just paid to give their opinion, nothing more....and if you expect good responsable journalism from the Radio guys, you will be disappointed.
Am I saying that what they did was OK? No, it pissed me off to. But you can't expect these "Sports Journalists" on the radio to be anything more than a Moronatti on the Radio. Why let the truth get in the way of a good story!

jenn2080
06-28-2007, 01:00 PM
Maybe my brother will change his mind about being a sport journalist because I certainly wouldn't want have to hear him being bashed by people who do not write for a living.

JB98
06-28-2007, 01:13 PM
Maybe my brother will change his mind about being a sport journalist because I certainly wouldn't want have to hear him being bashed by people who do not write for a living.

I am a sports journalist. Your brother should change his mind because he won't make any money doing this for a living, and the job is entirely unsatisfying.

Lip Man 1
06-28-2007, 01:29 PM
JB:

Depends on what your definition is of 'making money'

I've been in the sports media since 1979 (TV-radio-newspapers) and I wouldn't trade what I've seen and who I've met for all the money in the world.

I totally enjoy what I do and would recommend it to anyone as a profession. I've made enough money to be comfortable...I don't need any more then that.

Lip

areilly
06-28-2007, 01:29 PM
Maybe my brother will change his mind about being a sport journalist because I certainly wouldn't want have to hear him being bashed by people who do not write for a living.

I am a sports journalist. Your brother should change his mind because he won't make any money doing this for a living, and the job is entirely unsatisfying.

He should also change his mind unless he likes having this type of conversation at parties:

Stranger: "So what do you do?"

Brother: "I'm a sportswriter."

Stranger: "That's awesome. So how many holds do you think Scott Proctor will end the season with given the Yankees' tendencies to score isolated runs in natural grass and bunches of runs on turf and that most of the rest of their schedule is against low-scoring teams in pitching-friendly parks?"

TDog
06-28-2007, 01:29 PM
Maybe my brother will change his mind about being a sport journalist because I certainly wouldn't want have to hear him being bashed by people who do not write for a living.

People who study journalism with the intent of writing about sports, if they are serious about their training, often find sport reporting to be limiting and see sports journalists are considered less important. Really great sports reporters could cover anything, and often they get better jobs covering crime or politics. The foundation for being a good sports reporter is the same as the foundation for being a good news reporter. Most often, journalists will have a job and a recreational life they keep separate.

There is a problem with going into sports journalism because you like sports. Your job, if done right, could likely leave you disillusioned and antagonistic toward sports. If you go into journalism because you love the White Sox and want to write about them, you would find, given the chance, that doing your job properly would lead you to dislike the White Sox. That would be true for any team. You can be a fan and cover a team objectively, but you can't be a fan while you are covering a team objectively.

Sports, in the end, is entertainment, and it isn't very important. Newpapers and the electronic media, therefore, will not just look the other way on breeches of standards that apply to real journalism. In order to be competitive, they will demand them.

Luke
06-28-2007, 01:47 PM
Maybe my brother will change his mind about being a sport journalist because I certainly wouldn't want have to hear him being bashed by people who do not write for a living.

The media isn't exempt from public criticism, be it the subject journalistic integrity or their style of writing.

I'm sure pro athlete's families don't want to hear their relatives getting bashed by people who aren't pro jocks either, but it happens.

WhiteSox5187
06-28-2007, 02:19 PM
People are tending to get "sports journalism" confused with "sports radio." There is a long and storied history of "sports journalism" there have been many many great writers of in the history of sports journalism such as Ring Lardner (forgive my spelling) and I'm sure someone is going to name a couple of other guys here. Even today there are plent of good sports journalists such as Rick Reilly, Frank DeFord, Peter King, etc.

Sports radio on the other hand is where people with loud voices go to yell at each other over the airwaves. There is few if any journalism amongst the sports radio crowd.

cbrownson13
06-28-2007, 02:26 PM
People are tending to get "sports journalism" confused with "sports radio." There is a long and storied history of "sports journalism" there have been many many great writers of in the history of sports journalism such as Ring Lardner (forgive my spelling) and I'm sure someone is going to name a couple of other guys here. Even today there are plent of good sports journalists such as Rick Reilly, Frank DeFord, Peter King, etc.

Sports radio on the other hand is where people with loud voices go to yell at each other over the airwaves. There is few if any journalism amongst the sports radio crowd.


So when I graduate in December with a journalism degree and have the opportunity to work in sports radio will that automatically disqualify me from being dubbed a journalist? I would sure hate to have spent so much time in journalism classes honing my skills only to have that hard earned title stripped from me because I chose to do sports radio.

areilly
06-28-2007, 02:40 PM
Even today there are plent of good sports journalists such as Rick Reilly, Frank DeFord, Peter King, etc.

Gary Smith. His SI story on Mike Veeck and minor-league baseball is the whole reason I ever decided to write about sports.

Gavin
06-28-2007, 02:53 PM
May I never care so much about sports to get riled up about misreporting a contract extension.

Frontman
06-28-2007, 02:55 PM
Either way they need to be held accountable, this is unacceptable journalism.

Which one is the journalist? Obviously not the morning guy, as his expertise is in hot dog steamers. Not the mid-day guy, as he's "never been near the press box." I'd say the two in the mid-AM shift, but their paper (the "bright" one) likes to include racism where there is none when it comes to minority coaches who coach football in this town, so they're credibility was already shot prior to this. Then you got the former reporter and the Duke guy who don't like it if you point out they are wrong.

I don't think we can hold any of them accountable, as they'd just hang up on us anyways.

TDog
06-28-2007, 03:07 PM
So when I graduate in December with a journalism degree and have the opportunity to work in sports radio will that automatically disqualify me from being dubbed a journalist? I would sure hate to have spent so much time in journalism classes honing my skills only to have that hard earned title stripped from me because I chose to do sports radio.

No one will take away your journalism degree if you get a job in sports radio, just as no one would take your degree away if you got a job in pro wrestling. Sports radio has nothing to do with journalism. If sports radio is your goal, you are overqualified with a journalism degree.

People who work in radio and television news/sports often don't have journalism degrees. Jane Pauley's degree from Indiana University was in political science, even though IU's Ernie Pyle School of Journalism was ranked as one of the best journalism schools in the country at the time. Before radio, Ring Lardner, best known today for his fiction, was a writer who was a White Sox fan. He covered the White Sox for a Chicago newspaper, went on to be an editor for The Sporting News left sports altogether in the 1920s, after he was disillusioned by the 1919 scandal that he, despite his love for the White Sox, helped uncover.

If you get a job in sports radio and want to get a journalism job, you might even consider leaving the radio gig off your resume.

Frontman
06-28-2007, 03:07 PM
So when I graduate in December with a journalism degree and have the opportunity to work in sports radio will that automatically disqualify me from being dubbed a journalist? I would sure hate to have spent so much time in journalism classes honing my skills only to have that hard earned title stripped from me because I chose to do sports radio.

Please understand we're talking about the sports "journalists" on radio here in Chicago. Yes, there are guys who actually bother to research, do the leg work, etc. But come on. Look at the radio coverage in this town when it comes to the Sox at both ESPN and the Score.


Mike North: Cares more about his own push to go national than he does at building a relationship with the players. He's caused enough problems this season alone that if I was Jerry Reinsdorf, I'd think twice about resigning my broadcast rights to the Score.

Waddle/Silverman? Decent, but neither are experts when it comes to baseball.

Mully/Hanley: Covers good football and basketball, neither know baseball as well as they should. Their paper has also recently taken the approach of "firing up" the reader, to "get us off the sidelines and involved" versus reporting. Considering how the Times covered the Lovie Smith contract extension, I do not trust their sports department. More than the Score's "contract talks are close with Buehrle" mis-reporting, to inject racism into a situation where there was none? They hold very little credibility as good reporters working for that rag now.

Murph: Mention you are a Sox fan, you are immediately hung up on. Next. (It's a shame, really; as Murph does know the most about baseball out of the local talent. Sadly, if it isn't about the Cubs, or this season, hatred for Jaquce Jones; he can't say a single thing intelligently.)

Mac, Jerko, Harry: None, NONE of these three know a damn thing about sports. They DO know however how to do a very good "Superfans" imppression. They know all about the bleacher babes at Wrigley, but they have zero clue as to what it takes to put together a winning baseball team nor do they understand how to cover anything that isn't all about the fan side of the sport. (Early in the season, when the Sox had the "Back to the Grind" radio spots, the commerical that parodied the "superfans" sounded like 30 seconds of a MJH show.)

Boers and Berstein: See my post about being hung up on if you disagree with them.

Look, if you get a shot to be a sports radio reporter, then by all means, be a SMART radio reporter. As much as B&B make fun of the "Booyah" network, there isn't a single intelligent local guy or show that covers sports with half a brain, especially when it comes to baseball.

miker
06-28-2007, 03:16 PM
People are tending to get "sports journalism" confused with "sports radio." There is a long and storied history of "sports journalism" there have been many many great writers of in the history of sports journalism such as Ring Lardner (forgive my spelling) and I'm sure someone is going to name a couple of other guys here. Even today there are plent of good sports journalists such as Rick Reilly, Frank DeFord, Peter King, etc.

Sports radio on the other hand is where people with loud voices go to yell at each other over the airwaves. There is few if any journalism amongst the sports radio crowd.
The sadest part is that real sports journalism (and frankly, any opportunity for a good writer) is becoming less commercially viable, while there appears to be quite the market for boobs screaming nonsense at each other under the guise of "sports talk". Literacy and civility are becoming things of the past.

Hey, maybe the "Fairness Doctrine" will fix that too! :rolleyes:

Goose
06-28-2007, 03:30 PM
Please understand we're talking about the sports "journalists" on radio here in Chicago. Yes, there are guys who actually bother to research, do the leg work, etc. But come on. Look at the radio coverage in this town when it comes to the Sox at both ESPN and the Score.


Mike North: Cares more about his own push to go national than he does at building a relationship with the players. He's caused enough problems this season alone that if I was Jerry Reinsdorf, I'd think twice about resigning my broadcast rights to the Score.

Waddle/Silverman? Decent, but neither are experts when it comes to baseball.

Mully/Hanley: Covers good football and basketball, neither know baseball as well as they should. Their paper has also recently taken the approach of "firing up" the reader, to "get us off the sidelines and involved" versus reporting. Considering how the Times covered the Lovie Smith contract extension, I do not trust their sports department. More than the Score's "contract talks are close with Buehrle" mis-reporting, to inject racism into a situation where there was none? They hold very little credibility as good reporters working for that rag now.

Murph: Mention you are a Sox fan, you are immediately hung up on. Next. (It's a shame, really; as Murph does know the most about baseball out of the local talent. Sadly, if it isn't about the Cubs, or this season, hatred for Jaquce Jones; he can't say a single thing intelligently.)

Mac, Jerko, Harry: None, NONE of these three know a damn thing about sports. They DO know however how to do a very good "Superfans" imppression. They know all about the bleacher babes at Wrigley, but they have zero clue as to what it takes to put together a winning baseball team nor do they understand how to cover anything that isn't all about the fan side of the sport. (Early in the season, when the Sox had the "Back to the Grind" radio spots, the commerical that parodied the "superfans" sounded like 30 seconds of a MJH show.)

Boers and Berstein: See my post about being hung up on if you disagree with them.

Look, if you get a shot to be a sports radio reporter, then by all means, be a SMART radio reporter. As much as B&B make fun of the "Booyah" network, there isn't a single intelligent local guy or show that covers sports with half a brain, especially when it comes to baseball.

:thumbsup:

cbrownson13
06-28-2007, 04:02 PM
Please understand we're talking about the sports "journalists" on radio here in Chicago. Yes, there are guys who actually bother to research, do the leg work, etc. But come on. Look at the radio coverage in this town when it comes to the Sox at both ESPN and the Score.


Mike North: Cares more about his own push to go national than he does at building a relationship with the players. He's caused enough problems this season alone that if I was Jerry Reinsdorf, I'd think twice about resigning my broadcast rights to the Score.

Waddle/Silverman? Decent, but neither are experts when it comes to baseball.

Mully/Hanley: Covers good football and basketball, neither know baseball as well as they should. Their paper has also recently taken the approach of "firing up" the reader, to "get us off the sidelines and involved" versus reporting. Considering how the Times covered the Lovie Smith contract extension, I do not trust their sports department. More than the Score's "contract talks are close with Buehrle" mis-reporting, to inject racism into a situation where there was none? They hold very little credibility as good reporters working for that rag now.

Murph: Mention you are a Sox fan, you are immediately hung up on. Next. (It's a shame, really; as Murph does know the most about baseball out of the local talent. Sadly, if it isn't about the Cubs, or this season, hatred for Jaquce Jones; he can't say a single thing intelligently.)

Mac, Jerko, Harry: None, NONE of these three know a damn thing about sports. They DO know however how to do a very good "Superfans" imppression. They know all about the bleacher babes at Wrigley, but they have zero clue as to what it takes to put together a winning baseball team nor do they understand how to cover anything that isn't all about the fan side of the sport. (Early in the season, when the Sox had the "Back to the Grind" radio spots, the commerical that parodied the "superfans" sounded like 30 seconds of a MJH show.)

Boers and Berstein: See my post about being hung up on if you disagree with them.

Look, if you get a shot to be a sports radio reporter, then by all means, be a SMART radio reporter. As much as B&B make fun of the "Booyah" network, there isn't a single intelligent local guy or show that covers sports with half a brain, especially when it comes to baseball.


And the same can't be said for newspaper columnists in Chicago? It's just not the radio guys here. There are a lot of people who don't let the truth get in the way of a good story.

And as much as B&B can be immature, at least they were former writers/broadcasters before doing their thing on the Score. That's more than what can be said of Mike North, who was a high school dropout.

I just don't understand the thought process that ALL talk radio people here in Chicago are not journalists...what the hell are they then? Many of them spent years as writers. Did they abandon their journalist title when taking a radio job?

TDog
06-28-2007, 05:31 PM
...

I just don't understand the thought process that ALL talk radio people here in Chicago are not journalists...what the hell are they then? Many of them spent years as writers. Did they abandon their journalist title when taking a radio job?

Being a journalist who is a sports radio personality is like being a physician who is a sports radio personality. Host a show on the radio and you're still a physician, but that has nothing to do with what you're doing on the radio.

JB98
06-28-2007, 05:33 PM
JB:

Depends on what your definition is of 'making money'

I've been in the sports media since 1979 (TV-radio-newspapers) and I wouldn't trade what I've seen and who I've met for all the money in the world.

I totally enjoy what I do and would recommend it to anyone as a profession. I've made enough money to be comfortable...I don't need any more then that.

Lip

Lip,

I'm glad you've had an enjoyable and satisfying career. But with respect, you don't work for the Sun-Times News Group. The people who run this place are clowns with no integrity whatsoever. I'm contemplating a career change, frankly.

Frontman
06-28-2007, 06:05 PM
And the same can't be said for newspaper columnists in Chicago? It's just not the radio guys here. There are a lot of people who don't let the truth get in the way of a good story.

And as much as B&B can be immature, at least they were former writers/broadcasters before doing their thing on the Score. That's more than what can be said of Mike North, who was a high school dropout.

I just don't understand the thought process that ALL talk radio people here in Chicago are not journalists...what the hell are they then? Many of them spent years as writers. Did they abandon their journalist title when taking a radio job?

And at least with B&B, they break down the business side of sports better than most in radio, not just on the Score. But the reason most listeners have trouble with the "journalist" radio guys is that the radio guys forget the first thing about journalism (facts) and go to the hot topic button to get reaction (ratings.)

Lip Man 1
06-28-2007, 06:07 PM
Actually JB for a short time I did. They owned the Blackfoot (Idaho) Morning-News. I went to work there in March 2001 as a sports reporter for the area covering high schools and Idaho State.

In May I was called into the publisher's office and fired because the Sun-Times Group ordered a 10% reduction in all their properties so that they could have more money to buy more properties next year.

I talked with Ron Rappoport about this and he told me about the notice going up on the Sun-Times bulletin board about this.

I was pissed sure but it hasn't soured me on what has been a long career.

I can think of worse things then meeting the Sox brass, having beers with Larry Bird and covering the NCAA tournament for CBS when it was in Boise.

Perhaps you could try to go to work for another media organization?

Lip

JB98
06-28-2007, 06:13 PM
Actually JB for a short time I did. They owned the Blackfoot (Idaho) Morning-News. I went to work there in March 2001 as a sports reporter for the area covering high schools and Idaho State.

In May I was called into the publisher's office and fired because the Sun-Times Group ordered a 10% reduction in all their properties so that they could have more money to buy more properties next year.

I talked with Ron Rappoport about this and he told me about the notice going up on the Sun-Times bulletin board about this.

I was pissed sure but it hasn't soured me on what has been a long career.

I can think of worse things then meeting the Sox brass, having beers with Larry Bird and covering the NCAA tournament for CBS when it was in Boise.

Perhaps you could try to go to work for another media organization?

Lip

I could, but I'd have to leave Chicago. I don't want to do that. This is home. All the newspapers in this area are run by pricks, cheats and liars.

I thought about radio, but the fact is I'm too intelligent to mingle with those clowns. :cool:

MDF3530
06-28-2007, 06:14 PM
And getting back to the original topic of this thread, will those of you Score and Sun-Times haters out there be prepared to eat a large chunk of crow if he does re-up with the Sox?

BeeBeeRichard
06-28-2007, 06:31 PM
All the newspapers in this area are run by pricks, cheats and liars.

And those are their best qualities! Seriously, if you consider all the internal and external factors -- wanting to remain in Chicago, the state of Chicago media, the general direction of the newspaper business, etc., then you know the right answer to the move you are considering. Take a look at the worn-out old-timer on the copy desk in your office. He had to weather the sea change from hot type to Quark Xpress. And what did he get for it? A salary on par with a teacher's (with the added aggravation of working holidays and all summer long) and a bad wardrobe. For the next generation in the editorial department, it will be a tougher change to fight -- against the increasing irrelevance of the newspaper industry. Do you trust those bozos who are in charge to find a way to win?

JB98
06-28-2007, 06:37 PM
And those are their best qualities! Seriously, if you consider all the internal and external factors -- wanting to remain in Chicago, the state of Chicago media, the general direction of the newspaper business, etc., then you know the right answer to the move you are considering. Take a look at the worn-out old-timer on the copy desk in your office. He had to weather the sea change from hot type to Quark Xpress. And what did he get for it? A salary on par with a teacher's (with the added aggravation of working holidays and all summer long) and a bad wardrobe. For the next generation in the editorial department, it will be a tougher change to fight -- against the increasing irrelevance of the newspaper industry. Do you trust those bozos who are in charge to find a way to win?

No, and that's the point. The declining circulation numbers are alarming. Ideas and a vision for fixing the problem are lacking.

SoxandtheCityTee
06-28-2007, 07:19 PM
And getting back to the original topic of this thread, will those of you Score and Sun-Times haters out there be prepared to eat a large chunk of crow if he does re-up with the Sox?

I'm not one of those calling for blood, but neither sports radio station has done themselves proud on this one (yet). It seems clear now that there was something going on, reportedly just the family and the coaches talking. You'd expect leaks in that situation, but on the "scoops" the Score & S-T either misunderstood/were misinformed how far along the talking was, or could not resist the tempation to overplay their hand.

Then, when Mark's agent said "There is nothing going on," I think that a calm and clear-thinking reporter might have considered the possibility that this really meant "nothing involving ME, and no deal gets done without ME." But Levine, in high dudgeon and no doubt under pressure by this point, goes with the flat and stubborn contradiction of the competitor's story.

Then Hahn leaves for Florida and Ozzie is quoted saying it was time to take it to the agent. Before I left for work this a.m. I heard the AM-1000 update and it was "Talks are in fact going on, but a deal is NOT imminent." Oh, OK. :rolleyes:

Plenty of blame to go around.

balke
06-28-2007, 08:46 PM
I think the best way to go after a station or newspaper is to contact the sponsors and let them know you can't support their product because they support a station with bad practices.

That's pretty extreme though.

Frontman
06-28-2007, 09:15 PM
I think the best way to go after a station or newspaper is to contact the sponsors and let them know you can't support their product because they support a station with bad practices.

That's pretty extreme though.

For this? Yeah. But honestly, I can easily see Sox fans doing that say if North keeps his "let's PO the next Sox player/coach to appear on my show" routine. I'm not the type to deface property or that, but when I saw that picture of him and Jerry at the Cell? I wanted to spit on it after he got Ozzie, AJ, and Mark all worked up that one weekend. I might of even thought twice about doing it after his "let's PO Don Cooper with this 'You guys just gonna lay down this series? Is that the plan?' line of questioning."

tebman
06-28-2007, 09:29 PM
I could, but I'd have to leave Chicago. I don't want to do that. This is home. All the newspapers in this area are run by pricks, cheats and liars.

I thought about radio, but the fact is I'm too intelligent to mingle with those clowns. :cool:
Good luck to you, JB. I don't work in that business but I've been a big consumer of it most of my life. It pains me to see what's happening to it.

As was said in another post, it's vision and ideas that are lacking. Newspapers don't have to go away, but they have to re-think what they're doing in reporting, in scheduling, in distribution, and everything. Radio is in worse shape. The radio business is still making money, mostly because so much of it has been consolidated ruthlessly to cut costs, but there's virtually no vision or creativity there either.

I deeply appreciate aggressive reporting and good writing, whether it's in sports, politics, or anything else. The newspaper business is in a spiraling game of follow-the-leader that makes it more difficult to produce the reporting and writing that would bring it out of its funk. Radio might fade into irrelevance if WiMAX and EVDO reach a tipping point, and it won't know what hit it.

If your first love is reporting and writing, don't let it get away. There are far too few of you out there.

jdm2662
06-28-2007, 09:40 PM
No, and that's the point. The declining circulation numbers are alarming. Ideas and a vision for fixing the problem are lacking.

Well, if the content was better, I might actually buy the paper again. I was an avid Sun-Times reader from my childhood up until two years ago. I used to be able to just ignore the Marrioti crap and have some good reading. Not anymore. And to think I suffered in college when getitng the Sun Times wasn't easy. When they did have the box by my dorm, I bought it every day. I don't doubt it's as bad as you describe. Hell, you are trashing your own employer freely online. I don't do that until I leave...

WhiteSox5187
06-28-2007, 10:01 PM
So when I graduate in December with a journalism degree and have the opportunity to work in sports radio will that automatically disqualify me from being dubbed a journalist? I would sure hate to have spent so much time in journalism classes honing my skills only to have that hard earned title stripped from me because I chose to do sports radio.
Frontman did a better job of answering this than I could ever hope to do, but I wasn't trying to discourage you from radio or knock ALL radio guys. Fact is, there ARE some good ones. Mike and Mike have a fantastic show and Mike Greenberg was a terrific journalist when he was here. Tony Kornheiser is another great journalist (he coined the phrase "Dream Team") who had a good radio show here. So obviously yes, there are some legitmate journalists out there in sports radio land, but I'd say taht at least 90% of the people on sports radio in Chicago and probably around the country aren't real journalists but rather people who just spew out their loud mouthed opinions. I was really refering more to guys like Mike North, and sadly there are a lot of guys like Mike North on the radio around the country. Rick Reilly wrote a GREAT column about how he detests sports radio and how it turns some of the smartest people he knows into loud mouth raging idiots. Ironically enough, this was written back in 1994. I wish you well in any endeavor you go into and hope that I hear on the radio. Sadly, being smart on the radio does not always equal being successful.

JB98
06-28-2007, 10:33 PM
Well, if the content was better, I might actually buy the paper again. I was an avid Sun-Times reader from my childhood up until two years ago. I used to be able to just ignore the Marrioti crap and have some good reading. Not anymore. And to think I suffered in college when getitng the Sun Times wasn't easy. When they did have the box by my dorm, I bought it every day. I don't doubt it's as bad as you describe. Hell, you are trashing your own employer freely online. I don't do that until I leave...

Hell, I've trashed them freely to their faces, so what's new?:cool:

I don't work for the Sun-Times itself, so I can't speak for the climate in their newsroom or for the decisions they make. I work for the Aurora paper. The Sun-Times News Group owns us, the Daily Southtown, Elgin, Joliet, Waukegan and a host of other suburban weeklies. The **** flows downhill, that's for sure.

There are a lot of good people who work here, but the upper management will not make the commitment to help us serve our readers better. Possibly because they don't know how to serve our readers better. There is a lot of day-to-day frustration.

EndemicSox
06-28-2007, 11:09 PM
This thread is excellent...

Good luck to all...

Nellie_Fox
06-29-2007, 01:26 AM
The Sun-Times News Group owns us, the Daily Southtown, Elgin, Joliet, Waukegan and a host of other suburban weeklies.Don't forget the Naperville Sun.

Frater Perdurabo
06-29-2007, 07:55 AM
Hell, I've trashed them freely to their faces, so what's new?:cool:

I don't work for the Sun-Times itself, so I can't speak for the climate in their newsroom or for the decisions they make. I work for the Aurora paper. The Sun-Times News Group owns us, the Daily Southtown, Elgin, Joliet, Waukegan and a host of other suburban weeklies. The **** flows downhill, that's for sure.

There are a lot of good people who work here, but the upper management will not make the commitment to help us serve our readers better. Possibly because they don't know how to serve our readers better. There is a lot of day-to-day frustration.

Someday, when I'm back up in Chicago, we need to sit down and have a beer or three. Not to debate PK :tongue:, but rather to talk about the newspaper business. In some ways I envy you; in other ways I don't.
:cool:

SOXPHILE
06-29-2007, 10:03 AM
http://imgsrv.670thescore.com/image/DbLiteGraphic/200612/321916.jpg (http://www.670thescore.com/content_page.php?contentType=4&contentId=255325)
"I know for a fact the story was true, because I heard it from "my Peeps" ".


http://imgsrv.670thescore.com/image/DbLiteGraphic/200701/321920.JPG (http://www.670thescore.com/content_page.php?contentType=4&contentId=255387)
"I know for a fact the story is true, because my "Sox guy" told me. By the way, you are all dumb, and I am smarter than everyone. "

lumpyspun
06-29-2007, 11:07 AM
I think the best way to go after a station or newspaper is to contact the sponsors and let them know you can't support their product because they support a station with bad practices.

That's pretty extreme though.

Or wait until they curse on the air and then write the FCC three times like I did! :smile:

dakuda
07-06-2007, 11:53 AM
More crap from the Score:

I was listening yesterday when I ran to Menard's. I don't listen enough to know who these people are, but they did say they were filling in for the afternoon people.

They were sitting there talking about whether or not Cubs fan's expectations to win came from 2003 'success' or if that expectation was always there. They said that people were used to winning: The Bulls in the 90's, Bears in 85, "the team from the other side of town" in 2005.

One guy was going on about how society in general is more malicious, and used "those two times on the South Side" as examples, as well as items thrown onto the court by basketball fans, fights at basketball games, etc. No mention at all of anything at Wrigley. Even the guy running on the field a couple weeks ago was brushed under the rug.

Additionally, it was almost like they could not - or would not - say White Sox.

I arrived to the store a few minutes after that point, so I didn't hear much else. I did change the station once I got back into the car.

Frontman
07-06-2007, 05:31 PM
More crap from the Score:

I was listening yesterday when I ran to Menard's. I don't listen enough to know who these people are, but they did say they were filling in for the afternoon people.

They were sitting there talking about whether or not Cubs fan's expectations to win came from 2003 'success' or if that expectation was always there. They said that people were used to winning: The Bulls in the 90's, Bears in 85, "the team from the other side of town" in 2005.

One guy was going on about how society in general is more malicious, and used "those two times on the South Side" as examples, as well as items thrown onto the court by basketball fans, fights at basketball games, etc. No mention at all of anything at Wrigley. Even the guy running on the field a couple weeks ago was brushed under the rug.

Additionally, it was almost like they could not - or would not - say White Sox.

I arrived to the store a few minutes after that point, so I didn't hear much else. I did change the station once I got back into the car.

That's Matt Abattacola for you. AKA "Drinky" Nothing, NOTHING is wrong with the North Side (nevermind the melt-downs, the fact that even smart baseball analyists saying "It's only a matter of time until they disappoint their fanbase,") and everything is wrong everywhere else.