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Railsplitter
06-27-2007, 08:24 AM
Do two innings of shut out ball in relief qualify as a save?

itsnotrequired
06-27-2007, 08:46 AM
Do two innings of shut out ball in relief qualify as a save?

It depends. Did the game end? What's the score when he came in? Did another reliver come in after him?

Strictly speaking, shutout innings by themselves do not guarantee saves.

voodoochile
06-27-2007, 08:59 AM
Depends on the situation when the reliever entered the game.

If the lead is 3 runs or less or if the tying run is in the on-deck circle (bases loaded 5-run lead) when the reliever entered then yes, it's a save.

Three innings to finish the game and seal the win always qualifies as a save regardless of the score.

eriqjaffe
06-27-2007, 10:16 AM
Three innings to finish the game and seal the win always qualifies as a save regardless of the score.Technically, that's up to the official scorer, as the pitcher has to pitch "effectively":

Rule 10.20 in the Official Rule Book states:
Credit a pitcher with a save when he meets all three of the following conditions:
(1) He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his club; and
(2) He is not the winning pitcher; and
(3) He qualifies under one of the following conditions:
- (a) He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning; or
- (b) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat, or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batsmen he faces; or
- (c) He pitches effectively for at least three innings. No more than one save may be credited in each game.So it would be entirely possible to nearly blow a big lead, still finish the game and not pick up a save.

TDog
06-27-2007, 01:57 PM
Technically, that's up to the official scorer, as the pitcher has to pitch "effectively":

So it would be entirely possible to nearly blow a big lead, still finish the game and not pick up a save.

That is such a gray area that I have never seen it played out. If a pitcher is ineffective in the first two innings of work, he probably won't stay around for the third. If a pitcher is ineffective to the point of nearly blowing the big lead in his third inning, he likely would not finish the game. There are situations where the pitching staff is depleted and the game means nothing in the standings, certainly. Saves, relief wins, losses and saves often have no connection with how well a pitcher had pitched. To give saves more meaning than they had when they were introduced as a stat about four decades ago, criteria has been added since the days when just coming in with a lead and finishing the game with that lead would be enough.

For a pitcher to be given a blown save, he must come in a save situation. Most blown saves on most teams come from pitchers other than the closer because middle relief loses close leads while in the game. Thornton leads the White Sox in blown saves because he has failed to protect leads that would have in all likelihood gone to Jenks. Tuesday night, though, he wouldn't have been given a blown save if he had surrendered the lead because it wasn't a save situation. Had he come in with the same lead an inning earlier and lost the lead in the third, I'm sure he would have been awarded with another blown save because of the three inning rule. But that is only a guess. I've never seen that happen either.

I once saw a White Sox pitcher come in with a lead, never surrender it despite giving up six runs -- at least one in each of his innings -- AND still get credit for the win. If he had come in an inning later, I'm sure he would have picked up the save.