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crazyozzie02
06-24-2007, 05:14 PM
Im about ready to throw my towel in on this season. let the trading commence

MrX
06-24-2007, 05:14 PM
:anon:

lowestofthelow
06-24-2007, 05:14 PM
Im about ready to throw my towel in on this season. let the trading commence

Is there actually something holding you back?

soltrain21
06-24-2007, 05:15 PM
Trade them all.

You can tell me they are "trying," but I'm not really seeing that.

bryPt
06-24-2007, 05:16 PM
See you guys in February. I can't take this anymore.

signing out til 08,

bry

crazyozzie02
06-24-2007, 05:16 PM
Is there actually something holding you back?

no, but im a optomistic person at heart, but come on

Kwrubac
06-24-2007, 05:16 PM
This season was over a few weeks ago...At least the bullpen is starting to resemble something decent...our offense on the other hand must have entered the witness protection program...

stl_sox_fan
06-24-2007, 05:16 PM
As Green Day sang...."Wake me up, when September ends..."

BTW, did the Cubs just clinch? The way the announcers were gloating you would think this wasn't one below .500 team sweeping another below .500 team.

Malgar 12
06-24-2007, 05:16 PM
Im about ready to throw my towel in on this season. let the trading commence

about ready?:?:

AJ Hellraiser
06-24-2007, 05:16 PM
For the first time in my life.. (nearly 23 years) I can truthfully say I am embarrassed to be a White Sox fan...

There's not much more to say then that.. save the 5 starters, everything else about this team is miserable.. I guess we now know what it feels like to be KC Royals fans

Cellview22
06-24-2007, 05:16 PM
Beyond embarrassing. Sounded like 39k Cub fans with that last strikeout. :angry:

WSox597
06-24-2007, 05:17 PM
Just don't trade Mark Buehrle. The best pitcher we have, along with Garland. Keep Danks, and Jenks, and trade or DFA the rest. Logan and Massett have shown promise, I guess.

What an embarassment. Not just because it's the Cubs, although that's bad enough, but they can't beat anybody playing like this.

Maybe this asskicking is what they needed, who knows?

VenturaFan23
06-24-2007, 05:17 PM
Well I'm at double digits now in the loss column....this just plain sucks. Let's go Bears

soxtalker
06-24-2007, 05:18 PM
How did Contreras look? He gave up 10 hits, but it sounded like he looked pretty good today.

I know that the trade focus is on MB, but, if the demand is high enough, I wouldn't be surprised if KW was willing to trade one or more of the others.

AJ Hellraiser
06-24-2007, 05:18 PM
Beyond embarrassing. Sounded like 39k Cub fans with that last strikeout. :angry:

If you went to the game today, would you have hung around to see them win it in the 9th? I sure wouldn't subject myself to that ridicule...

I know, I know Cubs fans really shouldn't say anything when you look at the big picture and 2005 involved.. but still

downstairs
06-24-2007, 05:18 PM
As Green Day sang...."Wake me up, when September ends..."

BTW, did the Cubs just clinch? The way the announcers were gloating you would think this wasn't one below .500 team sweeping another below .500 team.

You may see a one-under .500 team clinch that division. They're on track as much as the rest of the losers in the NL Central.

BeviBall!
06-24-2007, 05:20 PM
Every time you think this season can't get worse, the Sox take the field the next day. We still have 3+ more months of this ****.

sox1970
06-24-2007, 05:21 PM
12 weeks down. 14 weeks to go.

DSpivack
06-24-2007, 05:21 PM
How did Contreras look? He gave up 10 hits, but it sounded like he looked pretty good today.

I know that the trade focus is on MB, but, if the demand is high enough, I wouldn't be surprised if KW was willing to trade one or more of the others.

As usual, no the starter didn't pitch bad. Except, as usual, he would have had to give up -1 runs to get the win.

lukeman89
06-24-2007, 05:21 PM
i like how we were able to muster a whole 2 runs in three games @ home against the cubs this year


edit: soriano did more with 3 swings than we did in 3 games

stl_sox_fan
06-24-2007, 05:22 PM
12 weeks down. 14 weeks to go.

That is the painful truth. We are not even halfway through this ride yet!!!

soxfanatlanta
06-24-2007, 05:22 PM
As of today, my beloved White Sox are the worst team in baseball. The record might not agree, but what I am seeing on the field today speaks volumes.

Kwrubac
06-24-2007, 05:23 PM
i like how we were able to muster a whole 2 runs in three games @ home against the cubs this year


edit: soriano did more with 3 swings than we did in 3 games

They just look weak and tired, I think they realized like most of us did that this season has been a lost cause for a while, and they are certainly playing like it....

JB98
06-24-2007, 05:23 PM
If you went to the game today, would you have hung around to see them win it in the 9th? I sure wouldn't subject myself to that ridicule...

I know, I know Cubs fans really shouldn't say anything when you look at the big picture and 2005 involved.. but still

I sold my tickets on Wednesday because I knew what was coming.

This is the worst offensive team I've seen in a long, long time, and our bullpen stinks. We have a lot of injuries to key players. There is nothing else to say.

The mods are going to have a tough job tonight because the trolls will be out. Good luck, guys.

goon
06-24-2007, 05:23 PM
What an embarassment. Not just because it's the Cubs, although that's bad enough, but they can't beat anybody playing like this.



Well, it's embarrassing because the Cubs are losers, even with their revamped offense... So are the Pirates and Blue Jays who kicked the crap out of the Sox, but it doesn't matter who they play now, the Sox are just bad.

hi im skot
06-24-2007, 05:24 PM
You may see a one-under .500 team clinch that division. They're on track as much as the rest of the losers in the NL Central.

No love for the Brewers? Seriously?

santo=dorf
06-24-2007, 05:24 PM
Man, this is much worse than that time we won the World Series. :anon:

hi im skot
06-24-2007, 05:25 PM
Man, this is much worse than that time we won the World Series. :anon:

Man, remember that?

JB98
06-24-2007, 05:25 PM
You may see a one-under .500 team clinch that division. They're on track as much as the rest of the losers in the NL Central.

The Brewers are 43-31 entering today's play. They would be 1.5 out if they played in our division. They are not losers. They are a respectable team with more than enough talent to hold off the Cubs, Cardinals and other pretenders in that division.

DBTH. The Cubs players will be on the golf course with ours come October.

stl_sox_fan
06-24-2007, 05:26 PM
No love for the Brewers? Seriously?

You may see a one-under .500 team clinch that division. They're on track as much as the rest of the losers in the NL Central.

4 games over .500 won it last year. Anything is possible in that division.

Frater Perdurabo
06-24-2007, 05:26 PM
This is the worst I have ever seen a White Sox team play.

1989 was terrible, but at least that team showed some heart. After a deplorable first half (.364 winning percentage), the team improved during the second half (.507).

The most disappointing and frustrating aspect of this season is the fact that the Sox are finding new ways to lose despite getting some very good starting pitching. If the Sox had this starting pitching in 2006, they would have run away with the division and would have won the World Series.

sox1970
06-24-2007, 05:26 PM
4-14 against the NL this year. Nice going, guys.

JB98
06-24-2007, 05:27 PM
Man, remember that?

Feels like a lifetime ago, doesn't it?

That just shows you how short the window for winning is in sports. When the opportunity comes, you have to seize the day. Who knows how long it will be before our next opportunity comes?

Hopefully, sooner rather than later. Hopefully, 2008.

goon
06-24-2007, 05:27 PM
Haha, there are more Cubs fans looking at this thread than Sox fans. Don't worry your team will continue losing tomorrow.

1908

eastchicagosoxfan
06-24-2007, 05:27 PM
See you guys in February. I can't take this anymore.

signing out til 08,

bry
Why? Can't handle a little adversity? It's still a game. Since 2005, the White Sox and St. Louis Cardinals have won world championships. Enjoy this season for what it is. An utterly exasperating experience. It ends in a few months.

starboy0
06-24-2007, 05:28 PM
This is sickening. What the heck is going on? Is this just a run of horrendous luck? I know our lineup has been banged up but what the heck?

I wonder if there is something rotten in the clubhouse? What is going on!

Navarro's Talent
06-24-2007, 05:28 PM
What a horrible season. I know I've said this a million times already, but I'm truly at a loss of words.

:anon:

MushMouth
06-24-2007, 05:30 PM
Does this year mean we'll actually get a top-10 pick in next year's draft?

Kwrubac
06-24-2007, 05:30 PM
Why? Can't handle a little adversity? It's still a game. Since 2005, the White Sox and St. Louis Cardinals have won world championships. Enjoy this season for what it is. An utterly exasperating experience. It ends in a few months.


Exactly, they are still my team regardless of how awful they play...hopefully this year is just a minor bump in the road....

JB98
06-24-2007, 05:30 PM
This is sickening. What the heck is going on? Is this just a run of horrendous luck? I know our lineup has been banged up but what the heck?

I wonder if there is something rotten in the clubhouse? What is going on!

Yeah, there is something rotten going on in the clubhouse: Losing. The club is mentally tired and beaten. You think it's bad for us fans? We have the choice to turn off the TV, ignore the game and take part in other activities. The coaches and players have no choice but to live this **** every day.

Navarro's Talent
06-24-2007, 05:30 PM
Can't say I'd be surprised if I wake up tomorrow morning to hear about some trades.

Thome_Fan
06-24-2007, 05:31 PM
.357 magnum... $400

magnum rounds... $50

putting yourself out of the misery that has become the 07 season... priceless

Steelrod
06-24-2007, 05:32 PM
Does this year mean we'll actually get a top-10 pick in next year's draft?
At the rate we are going, we'll get #1.

soxfanatlanta
06-24-2007, 05:33 PM
Trying to search for something positive;

Iguchi-san had some good swings today.

Contreas did his job.

And then there is the rest.

eastchicagosoxfan
06-24-2007, 05:34 PM
Yeah, there is something rotten going on in the clubhouse: Losing. The club is mentally tired and beaten. You think it's bad for us fans? We have the choice to turn off the TV, ignore the game and take part in other activities. The coaches and players have no choice but to live this **** every day.
Exactly! In spite of everything that has happened, I think this team can still play good ball. But dagnamit, they need to find a rallying cry.

soxfanatlanta
06-24-2007, 05:34 PM
.357 magnum... $400

magnum rounds... $50

putting yourself out of the misery that has become the 07 season... priceless


Nice hyperbole, bubba.

JB98
06-24-2007, 05:34 PM
Can't say I'd be surprised if I wake up tomorrow morning to hear about some trades.

Well, I'd be surprised. I don't know what you do with this group. Here are the guys who have value, IMO:

Konerko
Thome
AJ
Fields
Buerhle
Contreras
Garland
Vazquez
Danks
Jenks

Anybody on that list you want to deal? I suppose we could swap Mackowiak for a B-list prospect, but what good is that going to do?

Chicken Dinner
06-24-2007, 05:35 PM
After reading the rule it looks like the call was correct.

(b) If no play is being made on the obstructed runner, the play shall proceed until no further action is possible. The umpire shall then call “Time” and impose such penalties, if any, as in his judgment will nullify the act of obstruction.
Rule 7.06(b) Comment: Under 7.06(b) when the ball is not dead on obstruction and an obstructed runner advances beyond the base which, in the umpire’s judgment, he would have been awarded because of being obstructed, he does so at his own peril and may be tagged out. This is a judgment call.
NOTE: The catcher, without the ball in his possession, has no right to block the pathway of the runner attempting to score. The base line belongs to the runner and the catcher should be there only when he is fielding a ball or when he already has the ball in his hand.

MrX
06-24-2007, 05:35 PM
Trying to search for something positive;
Macdougal wasn't flammable

downstairs
06-24-2007, 05:37 PM
.357 magnum... $400

magnum rounds... $50

putting yourself out of the misery that has become the 07 season... priceless

That made me laugh. Good one.

KingXerxes
06-24-2007, 05:39 PM
After reading the rule it looks like the call was correct.

(b) If no play is being made on the obstructed runner, the play shall proceed until no further action is possible. The umpire shall then call “Time” and impose such penalties, if any, as in his judgment will nullify the act of obstruction.
Rule 7.06(b) Comment: Under 7.06(b) when the ball is not dead on obstruction and an obstructed runner advances beyond the base which, in the umpire’s judgment, he would have been awarded because of being obstructed, he does so at his own peril and may be tagged out. This is a judgment call.
NOTE: The catcher, without the ball in his possession, has no right to block the pathway of the runner attempting to score. The base line belongs to the runner and the catcher should be there only when he is fielding a ball or when he already has the ball in his hand.

SEND THE ABOVE TO HARRELSON.

eastchicagosoxfan
06-24-2007, 05:41 PM
.357 magnum... $400

magnum rounds... $50

putting yourself out of the misery that has become the 07 season... priceless
Lighten up Francis.

Brian26
06-24-2007, 05:42 PM
After reading the rule it looks like the call was correct.

(b) If no play is being made on the obstructed runner, the play shall proceed until no further action is possible. The umpire shall then call “Time” and impose such penalties, if any, as in his judgment will nullify the act of obstruction.
Rule 7.06(b) Comment: Under 7.06(b) when the ball is not dead on obstruction and an obstructed runner advances beyond the base which, in the umpire’s judgment, he would have been awarded because of being obstructed, he does so at his own peril and may be tagged out. This is a judgment call.
NOTE: The catcher, without the ball in his possession, has no right to block the pathway of the runner attempting to score. The base line belongs to the runner and the catcher should be there only when he is fielding a ball or when he already has the ball in his hand.

SEND THE ABOVE TO HARRELSON.

Send it to him, why? To prove that he was correct? Based on this rule above, play should have continued and both runners that were tagged out on the play should have remained out. Hawk was correct. The runner that tried to go back to second should have been called out since the obstruction occurred when he was on his way to third. It's not the Sox fault he decided to turn around and go back to 2nd.

JB98
06-24-2007, 05:42 PM
Exactly! In spite of everything that has happened, I think this team can still play good ball. But dagnamit, they need to find a rallying cry.

What we need is someone to pop a 3-run HR in the ninth and give everybody a reason to smile. There are no smiles on this White Sox team right now. No one is having fun. The pressure is eating them alive.

At some point, they just have to say, "**** it. The season is lost. There's 90 games left or whatever. I just have to go out, play ball and have fun."

There is really no reason for this club to continue feeling the pressure. The media have written the team off and rightfully so. As fans, our expectations have dropped to zero, and rightfully so. I don't even bother checking the standings anymore. We're out of it.

Somehow, the players just have to relax. It's like they're waiting for the other shoe to drop. "Somebody's going to get traded. Somebody's going to get canned, etc." They need to forget about all that **** and just ****ing play. It's a kid's game for crying out loud.

tstrike2000
06-24-2007, 05:43 PM
Right now, about the only thing worse than this was the strike of '94.

Law11
06-24-2007, 05:43 PM
let them chirp all they want we'll always have this.

hi im skot
06-24-2007, 05:44 PM
Send it to him, why? To prove that he was correct? Based on this rule above, play should have continued and both runners that were tagged out on the play should have remained out. Hawk was correct. The runner that tried to go back to second should have been called out since the obstruction occurred when he was on his way to third. It's not the Sox fault he decided to turn around and go back to 2nd.

That's how I understand it as well.

It's a moot point, obviously, but it's really too bad that we got hosed there.

vegyrex
06-24-2007, 05:45 PM
Ouch, this hurts. :anon:

Navarro's Talent
06-24-2007, 05:45 PM
Well, I'd be surprised. I don't know what you do with this group. Here are the guys who have value, IMO:

Konerko
Thome
AJ
Fields
Buerhle
Contreras
Garland
Vazquez
Danks
Jenks

Anybody on that list you want to deal? I suppose we could swap Mackowiak for a B-list prospect, but what good is that going to do?

There is definitely no one on that list I want to see go. I especially want Buerhle to stay, but that's looking like a pipe dream. I know KW only wants to make trades that he feels will help the team, but I don't know what can possibly help the Sox at this point. I think KW would be better off trading for prospects right now.

Dye's on the DL now, but Iguchi is turning it around. Maybe he can be dealt for a solid bullpen arm. I think Iguchi wants to play on the West Coast.

downstairs
06-24-2007, 05:45 PM
Right now, about the only thing worse than this was the strike of '94.

Nah. We've had years of horrible teams that could not be fixed but only blown up.

This team has a skeleton that could be a great team. Go nuts, Kenny. Earn your salary. One great season does not a GM make.

With some guts, arm twisting, and good negotiation, we'll be a contender in 2008.

eastchicagosoxfan
06-24-2007, 05:46 PM
What we need is someone to pop a 3-run HR in the ninth and give everybody a reason to smile. There are no smiles on this White Sox team right now. No one is having fun. The pressure is eating them alive.

At some point, they just have to say, "**** it. The season is lost. There's 90 games left or whatever. I just have to go out, play ball and have fun."

There is really no reason for this club to continue feeling the pressure. The media have written the team off and rightfully so. As fans, our expectations have dropped to zero, and rightfully so. I don't even bother checking the standings anymore. We're out of it.

Somehow, the players just have to relax. It's like they're waiting for the other shoe to drop. "Somebody's going to get traded. Somebody's going to get canned, etc." They need to forget about all that **** and just ****ing play. It's a kid's game for crying out loud.
TOGA!!! TOGA!Toga!Toga!

Thome_Fan
06-24-2007, 05:46 PM
i would miss iguchi. and i agree, i don't want to see buerhle go anywhere either.

Soxfest
06-24-2007, 05:47 PM
2007 Season and KW:angry::cuss:

Thome25
06-24-2007, 05:48 PM
What is taking KW so long?? He needs to light up those phone lines. PLEASE OH PLEASE let the firesale begin.

KingXerxes
06-24-2007, 05:50 PM
Send it to him, why? To prove that he was correct? Based on this rule above, play should have continued and both runners that were tagged out on the play should have remained out. Hawk was correct. The runner that tried to go back to second should have been called out since the obstruction occurred when he was on his way to third. It's not the Sox fault he decided to turn around and go back to 2nd.

Wrong.

The play continues, and then in the umpires discretion they can award as many bases as they see fit in order to rectify the situation. Obviously they put everybody back to their original bases. This is just like if a balk is called, but the pitch is thrown and a batter hits into a double play. The umps all call the play, but the balk call overrules the actual play itself and the runners on base advance and "no pitch" is ruled. Now let's say the batter hits a home run - the team at bat can accept the home run and basically "decline" the balk.

Harrelson at first claimed the umpires made something up to get back to bags loaded (or is that now forgotten?), then after being told that obstruction was the ruling he started saying that the play should have been called dead - wrong again. The umpires got the call right. Harrelson made this clear in his subsequent apology to the entire umpiring crew..........oh wait, he never made one.

Dick Allen
06-24-2007, 05:52 PM
Exactly! In spite of everything that has happened, I think this team can still play good ball. But dagnamit, they need to find a rallying cry.Yeah, we've been waiting since the end of last June for this team to play good ball. I'm done waiting. Have fun.

LongLiveFisk
06-24-2007, 05:52 PM
:anon:
Nobody can be this bad. They must be throwing these games.

JB98
06-24-2007, 05:55 PM
TOGA!!! TOGA!Toga!Toga!

Exactly right. After they get to Tampa Bay, Ozzie should tell everyone to go out and get ****ing loaded. He's done that before. Of course, that was before he became the "politically correct" Ozzie.

Brian26
06-24-2007, 05:55 PM
Harrelson at first claimed the umpires made something up to get back to bags loaded (or is that now forgotten?), then after being told that obstruction was the ruling he started saying that the play should have been called dead - wrong again. The umpires got the call right. Harrelson made this clear in his subsequent apology to the entire umpiring crew..........oh wait, he never made one.

Wrong again.

AT FIRST, the umpires took a 15 minute conference on the field to figure out what the hell had happened. If it's so damn clear as day, why did it take 15 minutes to sort out?

Hawk never claimed that the umpires "made something up." The only time he even remotely said something like this was on the ensuiing play when, out of frustration, he said Pagan should just go back to 2nd base and they'll figure out a way to keep him there.

You obviously missed the part where Rich Garcia told Hawk that the play should have been ruled dead. Why would Hawk apologize to the umpiring crew?

eastchicagosoxfan
06-24-2007, 05:55 PM
:anon:
Nobody can be this bad. They must be throwing these games.
The Royals have been this bad for years. Every couple of years the Cubs have a team at least this bad.

Frater Perdurabo
06-24-2007, 05:56 PM
Trade every veteran position player (besides Thome & AJ) for prospects. I'd rather see youngsters struggle than veteran bench warmers & captain suck.

Use the rest of this season to find out if any of the kids amount to anything. They can't learn to hit major league pitching unless they face it. Might as well give them the plate appearances now. If they suck, so be it.

Mackowiak + Cintron = average prospect. Uribe = decent prospect. Paulie = Kotchman + Shields. When he returns, Dye = strong IF prospect. Pods = mid-level prospect. Iguchi = mid-level prospect. But even if none of the prospects received in return play a single inning for the Sox in 2007, at worst Owens, Anderson, Sweeney, Valido, Getz/Richar (plus Thome, AJ, Fields and Kotchman) can't suck more than the veterans did in the Cubs series.

This frees up money to ink Buehrle & pursue quality free agents, too.

JB98
06-24-2007, 05:57 PM
Wrong.

The play continues, and then in the umpires discretion they can award as many bases as they see fit in order to rectify the situation. Obviously they put everybody back to their original bases. This is just like if a balk is called, but the pitch is thrown and a batter hits into a double play. The umps all call the play, but the balk call overrules the actual play itself and the runners on base advance and "no pitch" is ruled. Now let's say the batter hits a home run - the team at bat can accept the home run and basically "decline" the balk.

Harrelson at first claimed the umpires made something up to get back to bags loaded (or is that now forgotten?), then after being told that obstruction was the ruling he started saying that the play should have been called dead - wrong again. The umpires got the call right. Harrelson made this clear in his subsequent apology to the entire umpiring crew..........oh wait, he never made one.

Whether they got it right or got it wrong, they weren't the ones who got shut down by Sean Marshall and a cast of mediocre relievers.

PatK
06-24-2007, 05:57 PM
I'm all out of excuses and reasons for this team, so I'm going to blame this all on Ozzie having to go to anger management last year.

I hope I'm not the only one, but I'm sick of Ozzie spending a lot more time tipping his cap to the opposition than finding positives with this team.

Granted, the positives are slim these days.

JB98
06-24-2007, 06:01 PM
Trade every veteran position player (besides Thome & AJ) for prospects. I'd rather see youngsters struggle than veteran bench warmers & captain suck.

Use the rest of this season to find out if any of the kids amount to anything. They can't learn to hit major league pitching unless they face it. Might as well give them the plate appearances now. If they suck, so be it.

Mackowiak + Cintron = average prospect. Uribe = decent prospect. Paulie = Kotchman + Shields. When he returns, Dye = strong IF prospect. Pods = mid-level prospect. Iguchi = mid-level prospect. But even if none of the prospects received in return play a single inning for the Sox in 2007, at worst Owens, Anderson, Sweeney, Valido, Getz/Richar (plus Thome, AJ, Fields and Kotchman) can't suck more than the veterans did in the Cubs series.

This frees up money to ink Buehrle & pursue quality free agents, too.

Frater, you know damn well we can't rush prospects to the majors just because veterans are sucking. You'll damage them, and they might never recover.

Bring up the guys who look like they're ready for a shot and no more. Fields is already here. Maybe you add Sweeney and Richar to that list.

If you think Valido is better than Uribe, you're fooling yourself. Valido is below the Mendoza line in double-A, and he's made 15 errors or something already this year. I want a new shortstop too, but c'mon, let's get serious here.

You can't allow frustration to get the best of you and start doing foolish things.

KingXerxes
06-24-2007, 06:02 PM
Hawk never claimed that the umpires "made something up." The only time he even remotely said something like this was on the ensuiing play when, out of frustration, he said Pagan should just go back to 2nd base and they'll figure out a way to keep him there.

I don't have a tape of the game, but, unless I'm losing my mind, Harrelson said they made something up in order to get back to bases loaded and nobody out.

Am I the only one who heard this?

iamkoza
06-24-2007, 06:02 PM
positives-
-tickets should be readily available in 2008

negatives-

-I have tickets to 7 more games of this crap this year. Where's that rant from the disgruntled fan in the movie "major league II",

"You're all garbage, all of ya! Back up the truck, back it up!"

PatK
06-24-2007, 06:03 PM
Right now, about the only thing worse than this was the strike of '94.

Maybe we should pray for the 2007 strike.

Thome_Fan
06-24-2007, 06:05 PM
i'm not gonna line, i'm getting really sick of the errors uribe has been making lately. especially that pick off ball that got by him t'other day. that was ridiculous.

on a brighter note, i think God wanted to cheer me up so he put Zoolander on comedy central. Huzzah!

downstairs
06-24-2007, 06:07 PM
Wrong.

The play continues, and then in the umpires discretion they can award as many bases as they see fit in order to rectify the situation. Obviously they put everybody back to their original bases. This is just like if a balk is called, but the pitch is thrown and a batter hits into a double play. The umps all call the play, but the balk call overrules the actual play itself and the runners on base advance and "no pitch" is ruled. Now let's say the batter hits a home run - the team at bat can accept the home run and basically "decline" the balk.

Harrelson at first claimed the umpires made something up to get back to bags loaded (or is that now forgotten?), then after being told that obstruction was the ruling he started saying that the play should have been called dead - wrong again. The umpires got the call right. Harrelson made this clear in his subsequent apology to the entire umpiring crew..........oh wait, he never made one.


I agree that it was the right call. And of course it didn't matter.

But just like the NBA (which i can't watch anymore)- you hate to see umps/refs affecting the game this much... being a 10th player on the field. The whole thing just looked bad for everyone involved.

They *did* screw up... because they called two different things. Take your pick on which they screwed up.

Get it right or stick with your original call. Getting it right being the optimum ideal.

Frater Perdurabo
06-24-2007, 06:07 PM
Well, I'd be surprised. I don't know what you do with this group. Here are the guys who have value, IMO:

Konerko
Thome
AJ
Fields
Buerhle
Contreras
Garland
Vazquez
Danks
Jenks

Anybody on that list you want to deal? I suppose we could swap Mackowiak for a B-list prospect, but what good is that going to do?

I don't deal many of the players on that list (other than Paulie, for reasons I've listed ad nauseum elsewhere). But I would take prospects in return (of whatever quality I could get) for Iguchi, Dye (when healthy), Cintron, Mackowiak, Uribe and Pods. Then I'd bite the bullet and call up Anderson, Sweeney, Getz, Valido and Owens, and let them take their lumps against MLB pitching, hoping that two or three of them figure it out.

downstairs
06-24-2007, 06:08 PM
BTW... ejecting Ozzie was just immature. Like I mentioned, they DID get it wrong at some point. Ozzie has a right to go out there and say "*** is going on here? You call it one way and then another 2 seconds later?"

Brian26
06-24-2007, 06:08 PM
I don't have a tape of the game, but, unless I'm losing my mind, Harrelson said they made something up in order to get back to bases loaded and nobody out.

Am I the only one who heard this?

Harrelson said that the only way the runners should have gone back is if someone called time or there was a dead ball, which none of the four umpires ever called.

This is before the cameras caught the obstruction call and before Rich Garcia passed Harrelson the note saying the play should have been called dead.

KingXerxes
06-24-2007, 06:10 PM
Harrelson said that the only way the runners should have gone back is if someone called time or there was a dead ball, which none of the four umpires ever called.

This is before the cameras caught the obstruction call and before Rich Garcia passed Harrelson the note saying the play should have been called dead.

Then I'm the one going senile. If he said it (and I'm still certain he did), I'll hear it on WSCR in the next day or so. And if Rich Garcia's note sai the ball should be called dead, then somebody better talk with him.

JB98
06-24-2007, 06:13 PM
I don't deal many of the players on that list (other than Paulie, for reasons I've listed ad nauseum elsewhere). But I would take prospects in return (of whatever quality I could get) for Iguchi, Dye (when healthy), Cintron, Mackowiak, Uribe and Pods. Then I'd bite the bullet and call up Anderson, Sweeney, Getz, Valido and Owens, and let them take their lumps against MLB pitching, hoping that two or three of them figure it out.

They have to go outside the organization to get a shortstop and another outfielder. I hope Sweeney will provide us with one answer. I don't think much of Anderson or Owens.

Valido is nowhere near ready, although he's young enough that he could turn it around. Getz, much like Anderson, hasn't been healthy this year.

The calvary isn't coming from our minor-league system, especially when you're talking position players.

JDub35
06-24-2007, 06:13 PM
http://www.jwolf.org/photos/22134790.jpg

Letmehearya
06-24-2007, 06:14 PM
This is so painful. First post since last summer. This IS ROCK BOTTOM. Ugh

JB98
06-24-2007, 06:16 PM
This is so painful. First post since last summer. This IS ROCK BOTTOM. Ugh

We can only hope. I thought we hit rock bottom when we lost to the Astros. Things have remained remarkably similar since.

As much as we don't respect the Cubs or their fans, the Pirates and Astros are actually worse teams. Losing series to those clowns was every bit as bad as this, IMO.

Frater Perdurabo
06-24-2007, 06:26 PM
Frater, you know damn well we can't rush prospects to the majors just because veterans are sucking. You'll damage them, and they might never recover.

Bring up the guys who look like they're ready for a shot and no more. Fields is already here. Maybe you add Sweeney and Richar to that list.

If you think Valido is better than Uribe, you're fooling yourself. Valido is below the Mendoza line in double-A, and he's made 15 errors or something already this year. I want a new shortstop too, but c'mon, let's get serious here.

You can't allow frustration to get the best of you and start doing foolish things.

JB, did the Marlins "damage" their prospects by playing them in the majors before they were ready? Those who were "meant" (had the mental and emotional maturity to utilize their skills to overcome adversity) to succeed did, and those who were "destined" (didn't have the maturity to overcome adversity) to fail did so, too. Some succeeded and some failed. Now the Marlins have a pretty good nucleus of a few good players.

The only way these guys can learn to hit MLB pitching is for them to get practice against MLB pitching. They really can't do much worse than the steaming pile that the veterans have been excreting lately, can they?

Now is the time to find out who among them will sink and who has the hope of swimming. That way, KW can go into this offseason knowing where his holes are and can address them through free agency, the new prospects obtained in the trades, or in new trades in which surplus pitching prospects are dealt.

For example, it's time to fish or cut bait with Anderson. So, tell him he's the starting CF for the remaining 91 games, and to go out there and have fun, hustle, and "do his thing." When the situation calls for it, order him to bunt, or hit and run, or hit behind the runner, or hit a sac fly. If he fails, then we (and you and I) will be able to definitively say that he has not future with the Sox, and KW will have the knowledge he needs and the resources to address CF through a trade or free agency. If BA succeeds or shows progress, great!

Do the exact same thing with Sweeney in RF. Fields already is getting that opportunity, but don't give any of his ABs to Cintron or Mackowiak!

There's nothing to lose (in this division and league, barring a miracle comback PLUS the Indians AND Tigers collapsing, while the Twins simply slump, the playoffs already are all but lost), but much to be gained.

Isn't it better to find out whether or not the prospects can cut it? Don't we already know that Cintron, Mackowiak, Gonzalez, Terrero and Uribe CAN'T?

itsnotrequired
06-24-2007, 06:29 PM
Someone threw a half-full bottle of beer from the upper reaches of Section 520 and it missed me and my daughter by four seats.

Sig update time...

Frater Perdurabo
06-24-2007, 06:33 PM
They have to go outside the organization to get a shortstop and another outfielder. I hope Sweeney will provide us with one answer. I don't think much of Anderson or Owens.

Valido is nowhere near ready, although he's young enough that he could turn it around. Getz, much like Anderson, hasn't been healthy this year.

The calvary isn't coming from our minor-league system, especially when you're talking position players.

I respect your opinion on whether or not Sox minor leaguers can ever become productive major leaguers. I'd rather give them an extended opporunity to succeed or fail, though.

I'm also fine with getting good SS/2B/OF prospects from elsewhere, and playing them the rest of the season.

The only thing I don't want to see is more abject crap from the likes of Mackowiak, Uribe, Cintron and Gonzalez. I also don't want to continue to see veterans play far below their career norms.

I'd also rather dump Dye (when he returns), Paulie, Iguchi and Pods for prospects, and use the savings to invest in Buehrle and then some wise free agent signings.

SoxFan78
06-24-2007, 06:34 PM
Scoring 2 runs vs. one of the worst teams in the NL is brutal. I left the game today in the top of the 9th. Bad baseball at its finest. See my sig to see how I feel

PatK
06-24-2007, 06:37 PM
I respect your opinion on whether or not Sox minor leaguers can ever become productive major leaguers. I'd rather give them an extended opporunity to succeed or fail, though.

I'm also fine with getting good SS/2B/OF prospects from elsewhere, and playing them the rest of the season.

The only thing I don't want to see is more abject crap from the likes of Mackowiak, Uribe, Cintron and Gonzalez. I also don't want to continue to see veterans play far below their career norms.

I'd also rather dump Dye (when he returns), Paulie, Iguchi and Pods for prospects, and use the savings to invest in Buehrle and then some wise free agent signings.

I agree with you other than I'd like to see what Pods can do with the rest of the season. Unless there is a team that makes us an offer we can't refuse.

I don't see a viable leadoff hitter in the Sox farm system to replace him, or one that the Sox are willing to pay for. Ichiro is a pipe dream, at best.

MarySwiss
06-24-2007, 06:38 PM
Someone threw a half-full bottle of beer from the upper reaches of Section 520 and it missed me and my daughter by four seats.

Sig update time...

That's awful. I hope they got tossed--or better yet, arrested.

StillMissOzzie
06-24-2007, 06:38 PM
UGH!
The Sox go 2-7 against quite possibly the three worst teams in the NL, highlighted by scoring all of 2 runs on 16 hits during the ENTIRE ****ING SERIES against the crosstown rivals.

Has this team FINALLY hit rock bottom?

SMO
:(::angry::mad::whiner:

itsnotrequired
06-24-2007, 06:48 PM
That's awful. I hope they got tossed--or better yet, arrested.

I'm far too stoic to let such trivialities affect my life. Remember, I'm from the Erstad school.

Railsplitter
06-24-2007, 06:52 PM
For the first time since the "natural rivals" have had six games, one of the Chicago teams has dropped five games, and it's not the schlubs:redface:

Bulls_Fan
06-24-2007, 06:55 PM
I'm not going to comment on the 8th inning debate as it didn't come into play whatsoever since we are incapable of scoring a friggin run.

During spring training when we were playing like crap I commented to people that i am really worried about this team. I was told, "It's only spring training."

I hate being right!

It also looks like we are close to dealing MB in the coming day(s). Honestly, if we deal MB, we should unload EVERYONE. Start from scratch and rebuild this team the right way. Trading away an ace and trying to recover with a slow & old ballclub will not get us to any World Series whatsoever. Let us not postpone the inevitable!

HerzogVon
06-24-2007, 06:55 PM
Inadvertently left this one out of my ad campaign thread entries.

"Chicago White Sox Baseball: When Ambien just isn't enough."

Oh, and yes; I have found that the best way to deal with this season is to sleep through as many games as possible. Daytime naps can be a great boon...

hi im skot
06-24-2007, 06:56 PM
I'm not going to comment on the 8th inning debate as it didn't come into play whatsoever since we are incapable of scoring a friggin run.

During spring training when we were playing like crap I commented to people that i am really worried about this team. I was told, "It's only spring training."

I hate being right!


Congratulations.

Bulls_Fan
06-24-2007, 06:59 PM
Congratulations.

I guess my prize is watching this team struggle all summer.:(:

caracascat
06-24-2007, 07:08 PM
How about firing Greg Walker. Even in 2005, we didn´t excel offensively. Pleas we picked the guy out of fantasy camp and made him a coach. Boy our hitters are making good adjustments. Fire him now! Also lost in all the problems is the brain dead Razor Shines at third, he makes Joey Cora look good

oeo
06-24-2007, 07:22 PM
First and last time I ever go to a Sox-Cubs game. That was just an overall awful time.

hi im skot
06-24-2007, 07:23 PM
First and last time I ever go to a Sox-Cubs game. That was just an overall awful time.

Brings out the worst on both sides...

Cellview22
06-24-2007, 07:26 PM
First and last time I ever go to a Sox-Cubs game. That was just an overall awful time.

Never been to a sox-cubs game. How bad was it? Too many Cub fans?
I don't think I could bear to watch all those in blue giving each other high fives on the concourse after the game.

Lip Man 1
06-24-2007, 07:29 PM
I don't know what Comcast Sports Chicago showed but WGN-TV did show Sox fans at U.S. Cellular Field wearing bags on their heads.

Think about that...less then two seasons removed from winning a World Series...less then one year removed from a 90 win season.

Bags on the heads...unbelieveable.

Lip

Cellview22
06-24-2007, 07:34 PM
I don't know what Comcast Sports Chicago showed but WGN-TV did show Sox fans at U.S. Cellular Field wearing bags on their heads.

Think about that...less then two seasons removed from winning a World Series...less then one year removed from a 90 win season.

Bags on the heads...unbelieveable.

Lip

And the scary thing is it's only been a month. It seems like since May 24, we've lost every single game. I remember being optimistic in the middle of May. Shows how quickly the season can go south.

oeo
06-24-2007, 07:41 PM
I don't know what Comcast Sports Chicago showed but WGN-TV did show Sox fans at U.S. Cellular Field wearing bags on their heads.

Think about that...less then two seasons removed from winning a World Series...less then one year removed from a 90 win season.

Bags on the heads...unbelieveable.

Lip

That's what happens when proven hitters suddenly do not hit. Say what you want about the bullpen, but we played through a ****ty bullpen last year. We should not be this bad...how can all these guys suddenly be so bad?

MarySwiss
06-24-2007, 07:45 PM
I don't know what Comcast Sports Chicago showed but WGN-TV did show Sox fans at U.S. Cellular Field wearing bags on their heads.

Think about that...less then two seasons removed from winning a World Series...less then one year removed from a 90 win season.

Bags on the heads...unbelieveable.

Lip

In one of the later innings, WGN also showed a group of way-too-heavily-made-up Lincoln Park Trixies in full Cub gear doing some kind of weird ritual dance.

oeo
06-24-2007, 07:50 PM
Never been to a sox-cubs game. How bad was it? Too many Cub fans?
I don't think I could bear to watch all those in blue giving each other high fives on the concourse after the game.

It was pretty bad. I don't know what it's like in the lower level, but in the upper deck, it's Moron City. I want to sit there and watch the game, not listen to some ****ing moron trying to start ****, or the people behind me that can't seem to hold onto a beer. Nor do I want to hear the cheers of a Sox fan being kicked out because he's being antagonized by every Flub fan around, along with bottles being thrown in the general direction.

I now remember why I loathe that organization up north.

And I do have to say, this is their World Series.

Brian26
06-24-2007, 07:51 PM
a group of way-too-heavily-made-up Lincoln Park Trixies in full Cub gear

That's a triple oxymoron.

Brian26
06-24-2007, 07:54 PM
First and last time I ever go to a Sox-Cubs game. That was just an overall awful time.

And it blows my mind that people pay lots of money to put themselves through such torture.

Makes you long for a nice weeknight game against the Seattle Mariners...

Lip Man 1
06-24-2007, 07:54 PM
OEO:

To try to answer your question I can only think back to a comment Mark Gonzales told me back in April when the first indications were that something was badly amiss with this club.

He said it looked like they "all suddenly got old overnight."

There's truth in that statement, you're looking at a lot of guys in the mid 30's, with a lot of major league milage and some with a history of injuries.

The farm system hasn't produced much the past few years so it's not like Kenny could have gone to it for relief (either on the field or in the bullpen...)

Lip

Tragg
06-24-2007, 07:59 PM
I respect your opinion on whether or not Sox minor leaguers can ever become productive major leaguers. I'd rather give them an extended opporunity to succeed or fail, though.

I would hope at this point we'd give the legit prospects - "extended opportunity" as you put it - and offer bench seats to Gonzalez et al.

This happens to teams - they suddenly get bad. (and good).
In our case, we got old and injured and we have some real D level players starting every day.
But we have pitching.

Vernam
06-24-2007, 08:00 PM
To try to answer your question I can only think back to a comment Mark Gonzales told me back in April when the first indications were that something was badly amiss with this club.

He said it looked like they "all suddenly got old overnight."

There's truth in that statement, you're looking at a lot of guys in the mid 30's, with a lot of major league milage and some with a history of injuries.I'm absolutely not accusing any of these guys of having been juicers, but I think MLB in general is undergoing an adjustment where age is going to be more of a factor than it's been for the past decade or so. Back in the day, it used to be just a given that anyone approaching 34 or 35 would hit the wall, if not immediately, then within a year or two at best. (Remember Boston letting Clemens go in the "twilight of his career" in '96?) I don't see nearly as many big contracts for older guys -- too much risk now.

In MLB, maybe 35 is the new 40. :cool:

Vernam

itsnotrequired
06-24-2007, 08:00 PM
OEO:

To try to answer your question I can only think back to a comment Mark Gonzales told me back in April when the first indications were that something was badly amiss with this club.

He said it looked like they "all suddenly got old overnight."

There's truth in that statement, you're looking at a lot of guys in the mid 30's, with a lot of major league milage and some with a history of injuries.

The farm system hasn't produced much the past few years so it's not like Kenny could have gone to it for relief (either on the field or in the bullpen...)

Lip

On Opening Day, Thome was 36. Erstad and Dye were 33. Ozuna was 32. Everyone else was 31 or younger.

oeo
06-24-2007, 08:00 PM
OEO:

To try to answer your question I can only think back to a comment Mark Gonzales told me back in April when the first indications were that something was badly amiss with this club.

He said it looked like they "all suddenly got old overnight."

There's truth in that statement, you're looking at a lot of guys in the mid 30's, with a lot of major league milage and some with a history of injuries.

The farm system hasn't produced much the past few years so it's not like Kenny could have gone to it for relief (either on the field or in the bullpen...)

Lip

A lot? :?:

Thome, then who?

Most of these guys are in the primes of their career. We're not young, but we're not old, either. This isn't one of the worst teams ever. Maybe it's bad, but this bad? It's a fluke, is what it is. And Kenny/Ozzie are going to get a lot of flack for it...it's a shame. Maybe Kenny didn't put a World Series contender (or even 2nd place) together, but he definitely didn't put one of the worst teams in baseball together, either.

itsnotrequired
06-24-2007, 08:09 PM
A lot? :?:

Thome, then who?

Most of these guys are in the primes of their career. We're not young, but we're not old, either. This isn't one of the worst teams ever. Maybe it's bad, but this bad? It's a fluke, is what it is. And Kenny/Ozzie are going to get a lot of flack for it...it's a shame. Maybe Kenny didn't put a World Series contender (or even 2nd place) together, but he definitely didn't put one of the worst teams in baseball together, either.

On Opening Day, the average age of the Sox offense was 30.2. The Red Sox, Tigers, Yankees, Orioles, Dodgers, Mets, Cardinals, Astros, Giants and Reds had older offenses.

Lip Man 1
06-24-2007, 08:13 PM
OEO:

That's why I mentioned major league milage...guys like PK, AJ have played a lot of innings for 'only' being 30 or 31.

It caught up with them.

Maybe it is in fact a fluke I hope so.

I hope ten years from now we don't look back and say 2005 was a fluke either.

One other thing. I know it shouldn't matter and I know these guys are professionals but I honestly believe the uncertain free agent status of Buehrle, Dye and Iguchi affected them and the club.

It shouldn't but maybe the realization that guys that you won a World Series with and may be leaving perhaps affects things more then on a team that say played with the same group of guys and never finished higher then 3rd place.

If that's true, then we'll see how the Garland and Crede situation in 2008 affects things.

Lip

oeo
06-24-2007, 08:13 PM
On Opening Day, the average age of the Sox offense was 30.2. The Red Sox, Tigers, Yankees, Orioles, Dodgers, Mets, Cardinals, Astros, Giants and Reds had older offenses.

That's a third of the league. I don't see the Red Sox, Tigers, Yankees, or Mets offenses going completely dead. And half of those teams have a good shot at going to the postseason...here we sit batting .233 or whatever it is now.

oeo
06-24-2007, 08:15 PM
I hope ten years from now we don't look back and say 2005 was a fluke either.

The 2006 team won 90 games with their best pitcher having, by far, the worst year of his career. If Buehrle has a career normal year, we make the playoffs and who knows what happens. Speaking of Buehrle...a lot said that he was 'done' too after last year, and I was one of the very few that said it was a fluke season. I just don't see these guys losing it so early in their careers.

thomas35forever
06-24-2007, 08:16 PM
I will now say it: let the fire sale begin. This team can't do **** this year. I'm lucky school is out. Otherwise, I'd probably call in sick tomorrow. RIP 2007 Sox. Go Bears.

CLR01
06-24-2007, 08:21 PM
Sig update time...


You need more vodka lemonades or just the vodka...

itsnotrequired
06-24-2007, 08:23 PM
You need more vodka lemonades or just the vodka...

I didn't even buy it. pdimas hooked me up with it after the friend that he originally got it for decided they needed to take a "nap" in the bleachers during the game. Victory was mine. Then the Sox lost the game and all was right with the world.

DrCrawdad
06-24-2007, 08:29 PM
Ah...remember when Cubbie fans (one such being Les Grobstein) who liked to say that beating the Sox was like winning the World Series to Sox fans? And that the interleague series meant so much more to Sox fans than it does to Cubbie fans?

I have one word, well a number that I will simply be saying to ignorant Cubbie fans...

1908!

Law11
06-24-2007, 08:37 PM
[quote=Brian26;1615506]
Hawk never claimed that the umpires "made something up." The only time he even remotely said something like this was on the ensuiing play when, out of frustration, he said Pagan should just go back to 2nd base and they'll figure out a way to keep him there.[quote]

I don't have a tape of the game, but, unless I'm losing my mind, Harrelson said they made something up in order to get back to bases loaded and nobody out.

Am I the only one who heard this?

DJ said that. But man the difference of announcing between GN and Comcast was astounding. One team screaming at the umps the other were like alright ozzie leave the field.. Comcast blew it. GN caught the interferance at 2nd clearly and if hawk and DJ had seen the replay GN had would have shut up about 10 minutes earlier.

cbotnyse
06-24-2007, 09:31 PM
:anon::anon::anon::anon:

:puking:

hsnterprize
06-24-2007, 09:45 PM
I was so pissed off after the loss this afternoon that when my Cubbie-loving father-in-law called after the game, I wouldn't even talk to him. I knew he was going to rub some salt in this wound, and to tell you the truth, I really didn't want to hear it. When my wife talked to him, I started yelling to the phone across the room about how the Kane County Cougars could've played better than the Sox this weekend. The really sad thing about is was my father-in-law is a really nice guy...just a Cub fan, however. :angry::angry::angry::angry:

It's like every time I go to a store and see Sox merchandise on display, I feel a sense of shame and embarrassment. Am I the only one who feels this way? It's not like the Cubs are 20 games ahead in their division or anything...they still have to get a run going if they want to make the National League playoffs. However...the Sox are so bad right now the 5-6 year olds I manage on my T-ball team could play better than those guys.

As much as I'm loyal to the silver and black, I must admit I'm ashamed to be a White Sox fan right now. If the Sox had any bit of that "Sox Pride" we were all so excited about a few years ago, they'd count their losses and start building for 2008. 2007 is a lost cause. Unless just about every other American League team did a MAJOR choke job after the All-Star Game and the Sox did a "2005 Cleveland in the 2nd half" act, there's no way the south siders will make the post-season.

I'm sorry I'm being so pessimistic. I'm just really pissed off at this team. I don't think they'll win more than 1 game against Tampa Bay this week...I hope I'm wrong, but I really don't think they'll win more than 1 game against the D-Rays. :angry::mad::angry::mad::angry:

soltrain21
06-24-2007, 09:48 PM
All my Cub fan friends are talking a bunch of crap. I just keep telling them that every team is beating us this year. We suck.

Chicken Dinner
06-24-2007, 09:50 PM
Every Coach on this team must be saying "Man do I have a good secure job."

ChetChat
06-24-2007, 10:02 PM
Ugh. I guess the way I feel now is how Cubs fans feel all the time. Hopefully this year is just a blip. And if MB gets traded I don't know what I'll do...
:whiner::whiner::whiner:

LongLiveFisk
06-24-2007, 10:44 PM
I hope ten years from now we don't look back and say 2005 was a fluke either.

I'll NEVER say that. That 2005 Sox team was unstoppable in the playoffs. They were running on all cylinders. They had to play at the top of their game to beat the Astros in every single game in that World Series sweep. They were that good, and there's no way that championship can ever be considered a fluke.

kevingrt
06-24-2007, 10:47 PM
All my Cub fan friends are talking a bunch of crap. I just keep telling them that every team is beating us this year. We suck.

Perfectly said.

And btw HSNterprize it's not pessimism its realism now.

oeo
06-24-2007, 10:50 PM
I'll NEVER say that. That 2005 Sox team was unstoppable in the playoffs. They were running on all cylinders. They had to play at the top of their game to beat the Astros in every single game in that World Series sweep. They were that good, and there's no way that championship can ever be considered a fluke.

Since the Yankees dynasty that ended in 2000, there have been six different champions. You could call every one of them a fluke if you wanted.

DrCrawdad
06-24-2007, 10:54 PM
All my Cub fan friends are talking a bunch of crap. I just keep telling them that every team is beating us this year. We suck.

That's right. We're not much better from the Royals now. We've lost to the Pirates, Florida, Houston, etc.

Here's the silver bullet I pull out when they talk smack, and I don't utter anything other than this...

1908

JB98
06-24-2007, 11:02 PM
I respect your opinion on whether or not Sox minor leaguers can ever become productive major leaguers. I'd rather give them an extended opporunity to succeed or fail, though.

I'm also fine with getting good SS/2B/OF prospects from elsewhere, and playing them the rest of the season.

The only thing I don't want to see is more abject crap from the likes of Mackowiak, Uribe, Cintron and Gonzalez. I also don't want to continue to see veterans play far below their career norms.

I'd also rather dump Dye (when he returns), Paulie, Iguchi and Pods for prospects, and use the savings to invest in Buehrle and then some wise free agent signings.

Here's the thing, though. Let's say we call up BA and put him in CF for the next 91 games. He's not healthy. He's not hitting the ball in Charlotte. What are we really going to find out about him the rest of this year, other than he's hurt and struggling? What purpose would that serve? Truthfully, I don't know what to do with Anderson at this point. Hopefully, smarter baseball people than I know what to do with him.

Sweeney needs to be here, playing CF or RF every day. This is the time to find out what we have with him. He's in the same spot as Fields. He's healthy. He's swinging well. He plays a position where we have a need. Richar is another guy who I might want to give a look.

Owens? Well, I wish he was good enough to take Pods' job, but he ain't. With all of Scott's injury woes, I'd like to cut the chord with him. But the reality is we don't have anyone in the organization who looks prepared to assume that leadoff spot. Owens was entirely unimpressive during his recent callup.

I agree that I don't want to see Uribe's crap or Cintron's crap anymore. We need a new shortstop, one from outside the organization. Gonzalez is not a big-league player. As for Mack, he's a fourth outfielder, just like Terrero. Unfortunately, both those guys are starters here now, which goes a long way toward explaining our record.

kevin57
06-24-2007, 11:05 PM
We're not much better from the Royals now.

Not to make anyone feel worse, but given the fact that we started the year decently, our current record vis-a-vis KC indicates that the Royals are playing better than us!!! :thud:

itsnotrequired
06-24-2007, 11:10 PM
Not to make anyone feel worse, but given the fact that we started the year decently, our current record vis-a-vis KC indicates that the Royals are playing better than us!!! :thud:

Since the series with the Royals, the Sox have gone 18-35. The Royals have gone 24-31.

The Sox are now tied with the Reds for fewest wins in the league. Hell, the Nationals have a better record than the Sox.:o:

It's Time
06-24-2007, 11:20 PM
That's right. We're not much better from the Royals now. We've lost to the Pirates, Florida, Houston, etc.

Here's the silver bullet I pull out when they talk smack, and I don't utter anything other than this...

1908

Tried that. Response? "Tell me, how did the White Sox do against the Cubs THIS WEEKEND and THIS YEAR"?:(:

Sad times, man. Not much you can say when you get swept in your own yard.

RadioheadRocks
06-24-2007, 11:21 PM
Tried that. Response? "Tell me, how did the White Sox do against the Cubs THIS WEEKEND and THIS YEAR"?:(:

Sad times, man. Not much you can say when you get swept in your own yard.


Response to that... tear a few sheets of paper, toss them in the air and say "Congratulations, here's your parade".

Greg1983
06-24-2007, 11:22 PM
...blow the whole freaking thing up.

Everything, everyone must go. 2005 is over, and this team hasn't been worth anything since that season ended.

Blow it up. Blow the whole damned thing up.

It's Time
06-24-2007, 11:24 PM
Response to that... tear a few sheets of paper, toss them in the air and say "Congratulations, here's your parade".

Oh, that's good.:D:

DrCrawdad
06-24-2007, 11:25 PM
Tried that. Response? "Tell me, how did the White Sox do against the Cubs THIS WEEKEND and THIS YEAR"?:(:


I don't argue. I don't debate. I just say, "1908."

To that question I'd say, "1908."

It frustrates them and ends the silliness (with silliness but nonetheless silliness that is in fact their painful truth).

Try for yourself, when they bring up the sweep or attendance/popularity just respond with 1908. Watch their frustration and the argument end.

I've got a slew of emails from a Cubbie fan friend trying to draw me into an argument via email. No matter what the question, I give this simple expression as the sole answer: 1908

manders_01
06-24-2007, 11:30 PM
In one of the later innings, WGN also showed a group of way-too-heavily-made-up Lincoln Park Trixies in full Cub gear doing some kind of weird ritual dance.

I'm soooooo glad I didn't see that!

It's Time
06-24-2007, 11:41 PM
I don't argue. I don't debate. I just say, "1908."

To that question I'd say, "1908."

It frustrates them and ends the silliness (with silliness but nonetheless silliness that is in fact their painful truth).

Try for yourself, when they bring up the sweep or attendance/popularity just respond with 1908. Watch their frustration and the argument end.

I've got a slew of emails from a Cubbie fan friend trying to draw me into an argument via email. No matter what the question, I give this simple expression as the sole answer: 1908


I know. However, this is as painfull as it gets. To share the city with them and have to read the papers, taunts and the fact the White Sox are just awful, makes it very tough.

Going to work tomorrow is not looking too fun.

JB98
06-24-2007, 11:47 PM
I know. However, this is as painfull as it gets. To share the city with them and have to read the papers, taunts and the fact the White Sox are just awful, makes it very tough.

Going to work tomorrow is not looking too fun.

They keep telling us we're living in the past when we bring up 2005. Well, the 2007 crosstown series is now part of the past as well.

Just tell those *******s you're focused on tomorrow's game with the Devil Rays, and that they should stop living in the past. :rolleyes:

southsideirish71
06-24-2007, 11:59 PM
They keep telling us we're living in the past when we bring up 2005. Well, the 2007 crosstown series is now part of the past as well.

Just tell those *******s you're focused on tomorrow's game with the Devil Rays, and that they should stop living in the past. :rolleyes:

I tell them I remember sitting in my seats in game 2 of the world series. I remember the Konerko home run I remember the rain on my face. I remember how the stadium shook after the walk off. If they want to find a cub fan who can say they had the same experience they either need a ouiji board or a shovel to dig up a relative.

MrX
06-25-2007, 12:03 AM
They keep telling us we're living in the past when we bring up 2005. Well, the 2007 crosstown series is now part of the past as well.
We have a past worth living in

MetroPD
06-25-2007, 12:05 AM
Those who live in the past are cowards, we need something anything right now.

JB98
06-25-2007, 12:19 AM
Those who live in the past are cowards, we need something anything right now.

I don't think there's anything wrong with cherishing the past. If I die tomorrow, I will have happy memories of the 2005 World Series champs.

But at the same time, you have to live today and have hopes for the future.

As for the Cubs, I think their past, present and future all stink. So **** 'em. :D:

DrCrawdad
06-25-2007, 12:21 AM
With a performance so convincing, the crosstown-rivals agreed on one thing: The Cubs were simply dominant in a three-game sweep that sank the Sox to new lows. - Cubune

Ok, the Sox offense has been on vacation for a couple months, but is it right to call it "simply dominant" when in reality the Cubs won by slim margins?

The Cubs swept the Sox but it would be "dominant" to me if it each game were an 6 run margin for the Cubbies.

ilsox7
06-25-2007, 12:25 AM
Ok, the Sox offense has been on vacation for a couple months, but is it right to call it "simply dominant" when in reality the Cubs won by slim margins?

The Cubs swept the Sox but it would be "dominant" to me if it each game were an 6 run margin for the Cubbies.

The Sox did not lead once. Hence, dominance.

JB98
06-25-2007, 12:28 AM
The Sox did not lead once. Hence, dominance.

And we only scored two runs in three games. Certainly, our hitters got dominated. That's not anything new, of course.

ilsox7
06-25-2007, 12:32 AM
And we only scored two runs in three games. Certainly, our hitters got dominated. That's not anything new, of course.

It's those damn plastic bats.

chisoxfanatic
06-25-2007, 12:33 AM
I don't argue. I don't debate. I just say, "1908."

That's the spirit, DrCrawdad!

They keep telling us we're living in the past when we bring up 2005. Well, the 2007 crosstown series is now part of the past as well.

Ahhh, a collegue of mine that just retired keeps using that line on me "Quit living in the past!" I know it all too well! He constantly tried to instigate us Sox fans at work (and would ultimately end up losing in the process). I couldn't go to his retirement party due to having to catch an early flight that day; but, what I DID do to "close everything up" was slip a list of the "Top 20 Things That Have Happened Since the Cubs Last Won the World Series" in his retirement card. He actually got a kick out of it!

oeo
06-25-2007, 01:16 AM
Ok, the Sox offense has been on vacation for a couple months, but is it right to call it "simply dominant" when in reality the Cubs won by slim margins?

The Cubs swept the Sox but it would be "dominant" to me if it each game were an 6 run margin for the Cubbies.

The Sox had every chance in the world to win at least 2 of those 3 games. I'll give Zambrano his due...he was nasty on Friday, but Hill and Marshall were not as good as their stat lines indicate.

We also should have swept them at Wrigley, but the bullpen ****ed up those first two games late. Sure we were 1-5 this year against them, but we could have just as easily been 5-1.

WhiteSox5187
06-25-2007, 01:32 AM
The long and the short of it is that this team as it is assembled right now, just isn't that good...the fact is though, this is not the team that anyone envisioned playing out there right now. Too bad. We'll get 'em next year.

BV2005
06-25-2007, 05:05 AM
If Buehrle gets traded, this will officially be the worst season ever for white sox baseball.

soxfan1965
06-25-2007, 05:29 AM
This is the worst I have ever seen a White Sox team play.

1989 was terrible, but at least that team showed some heart. After a deplorable first half (.364 winning percentage), the team improved during the second half (.507).

The most disappointing and frustrating aspect of this season is the fact that the Sox are finding new ways to lose despite getting some very good starting pitching. If the Sox had this starting pitching in 2006, they would have run away with the division and would have won the World Series.

1970 was the worst season I remember, with a 500k attendance. Even loyal broadcaster Bob Elson left after that season. This 2007 team has 2005 to look back to, as the 1969 1-13 Bears (mixing football here) had the 1963 championship. But in 1970 at least there was no city series to get swept at home to rub it in even worse. The danger for the Sox and KW is not to sink so low as the 1970 team did from 1967 (near pennant), since the Sox attendance is too performance-dependent. Challenge is to field a respectable team for a few years, until they can rebuild a solid core. It took Dick Allen to help turn around the Sox (2 years later) and Walter Payton (6 years later) to turn around the Bears (no need to mention Michael Jordan), so maybe the Sox need a silver bullet player to get things started to help build the new core they need.

Grzegorz
06-25-2007, 05:49 AM
What the Chicago White Sox need is consistency. I am not sure there is a single 'magic bullet' type of player that guarantees consistency.

League Championships and the World Series are won by organizations. Getting a handle on scouting and building from within is a cornerstone of a winning franchise.

It looks as if Buehrle will be gone so I wish him the best of luck and I pray to the baseball gods that the return on Buehrle is tremendous.

I want the Chicago White Sox to take this city back; if not year round, then from spring to fall.

HerzogVon
06-25-2007, 09:16 AM
That's a triple oxymoron.

Actually, it's a tripple redundancy...with a 1 1/2 twist. Tends to bring high marks on the Bulgarian judge's card.

Axel Jacknife :gulp: