PDA

View Full Version : *Official* All Buehrle, All the time, trade thread!!!!


Pages : [1] 2

Viva Medias B's
06-24-2007, 08:19 AM
According to the back page of today's Sun-Times, talks between Mark Buehrle and the White Sox have broken down. In this Joe Cowley article (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/441508,CST-SPT-sox24.article), the Boston Red Sox have emerged as the leading candidate to land Buehrle in a deadline trade for the purpose of, if nothing else, keeping the New York Yankees from getting Buehrle.

Dibbs
06-24-2007, 08:23 AM
I thought yesterday it was 99% chance he was going to stay with the White Sox. I can't believe what writers get away with these days.

Scottiehaswheels
06-24-2007, 08:24 AM
If we take Ellisbury that pretty much signals a return to the kids can play... No way we go after Ichiro if we take him... At least thats what it seems like to me... Also... I must add, UGH we're gonna be one of those jackass teams that helps Boston/NY? May God have mercy on our souls...

tebman
06-24-2007, 08:41 AM
Yeah, well...

KW wasn't supposed to re-sign Garland or Konerko either. Obviously the Sox are in a different situation now than they were then, but I'm not going to get worked up about something Cowley writes. I'll use my worked-up energy worrying about why Terrero thinks he can stretch a single into a double when he's got a runner in front of him with less than two outs, or why Uribe often forgets what game he's in when he's swinging from his heels.

itsnotrequired
06-24-2007, 08:41 AM
The Red Sox certainly need a lefty starter. If the Sox go into fire sale mode, Buchholz for Buehrle, straight up.

hose
06-24-2007, 08:48 AM
The Red Sox certainly need a lefty starter. If the Sox go into fire sale mode, Buchholz for Buehrle, straight up.

It's going to take more then just Buchholz for Kenny to trade Burles to Boston.

itsnotrequired
06-24-2007, 08:50 AM
It's going to take more then just Buchholz for Kenny to trade Burles to Boston.

KW will obviously want more but will the Red Sox want to offer more? By all accounts I've read, Buchholz is the real deal. Buehrle not being under contract for next year will also factor into it.

sox1970
06-24-2007, 09:05 AM
Looking at Clay Buchholz' numbers, he appears to be a stud. If Boston is desperate enough, they'll have to give up a good one.

I'm resigned to the fact Buehrle is gone. Pull the trigger.


Scouting Report: Buchholz has a low-to-mid 90s four-seam fastball, a two-seam fastball with decent movement, a slider, a hard 12-to-6 curveball, and a change-up. In 2006, Buchholz actually let loose towards the end of the season, when his fastball was sitting around 96 mph. However, over the course of the season his fastball typically sits around 91-94 and tops out at about 97 mph. His change-up is generally a straight change that sits around 78-82 mph; he also throws a circle change. His curveball is the best in the organization, and often his out pitch. His curveball also has some variety, as it can be thrown as a tight breaker or a deep, biting curve. Mixes in all of his pitches phenomenally. Good demeanor on the mound. Pitches well under pressure, pitching coaches have said he has ice water running through his veins. Nice pick-off move. Struggled with consistency early in his pro career, but otherwise has ace makeup. Might need to add and maintain some weight to endure a full major league season.

oeo
06-24-2007, 09:09 AM
KW will obviously want more but will the Red Sox want to offer more? By all accounts I've read, Buchholz is the real deal. Buehrle not being under contract for next year will also factor into it.

Of course they will...this is the same team that traded Anibal Sanchez and Hanley Ramirez for Josh Beckett. I'll take Buccholz and Lowrie. :D:

tick53
06-24-2007, 09:16 AM
How sad is all this? The Sox are two years removed from being World Series Champions and currently we are down to one bargaining chip. What the hell is happening?:(:

SoxxoS
06-24-2007, 09:23 AM
How sad is all this? The Sox are two years removed from being World Series Champions and currently we are down to one bargaining chip. What the hell is happening?:(:

There are more bargaining chips like Dye - and the Sox won't get rid of the others (Jenks/Vazquez) but you are right, there aren't many players that other teams want this season.

California Sox
06-24-2007, 09:32 AM
I'd take Buchholtz and a throw-in in a heartbeat for Buerhle. Buchholtz is one of the top three pitchers in the minors. I'd also take Jacoby Ellsbury and a throw-in if Boston is smart enough to not give up Buchholtz. (Of course, all four of these guys were drafted in the first or supplemental in 2005 after we took Lance Broadway. You can see why KW is starting to expect more.)

Buchholtz and Lowrie or Ellsbury and Bowden, either one would be a fair deal. Bowden and Lowrie, however, not so much.

SoxxoS
06-24-2007, 09:56 AM
I'd take Buchholtz and a throw-in in a heartbeat for Buerhle. Buchholtz is one of the top three pitchers in the minors. I'd also take Jacoby Ellsbury and a throw-in if Boston is smart enough to not give up Buchholtz. (Of course, all four of these guys were drafted in the first or supplemental in 2005 after we took Lance Broadway. You can see why KW is starting to expect more.)

Buchholtz and Lowrie or Ellsbury and Bowden, either one would be a fair deal. Bowden and Lowrie, however, not so much.

Buchholz should be included in the deal first and foremost. Bowden is from nearby Waubonsie Valley high IIRC, so the Sox should have a good bead on him from scounting him for the draft. I am not as high on Bowden as most, but that is just me.

Ellsbury is a good prospect, but he should definitely not be the centerpiece of the deal, IMO. Maybe I am not as high on him as others.

Give me Jed Lowrie, Pedroia and Buchholz for Buehrle and Iguchi.

dakuda
06-24-2007, 10:12 AM
Didn't Williams say a week or two ago that he will not trade any veterans for prospects?

Buehrle is not Navarro, give him the long term deal.

It's Time
06-24-2007, 10:16 AM
Bah! Not sure what to believe here. That said, I think Buehrle is gone,

LITTLE NELL
06-24-2007, 10:19 AM
ESPN is saying that Sox are ready to trade Mark to Red Sox. Anyone hear anything, Im down in Florida and just saw it on the scroll on ESPN

Sox
06-24-2007, 10:23 AM
ESPN is saying that Sox are ready to trade Mark to Red Sox. Anyone hear anything, Im down in Florida and just saw it on the scroll on ESPN

If that is true, could this be the beginning of the much talked about fire sale everyone has been talking about on these boards?:o:

southside rocks
06-24-2007, 10:23 AM
The local media is giving a lot of space to the rumor that a deal that will send Mark to Boston is all but done. Joe Cowley in today's Sun-TImes:
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/441508,CST-SPT-sox24.article

I glanced at the piece but I didn't see any speculation about who the Sox would get in return; some unidentified (but certainly future HOF) minor-league prospects, I believe.

Sad
06-24-2007, 10:24 AM
I just cannot see not keeping a good leftie like Mark regardless of how our season is going... unless they don't think he would re-sign... (apparently the case I now read)

that'd be a real drag seeing Mark leave... :whiner:

Brian26
06-24-2007, 10:25 AM
This makes me ill.

Paulwny
06-24-2007, 10:27 AM
Thread was already started

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=89467

LITTLE NELL
06-24-2007, 10:28 AM
Not resigning Mark would be worse than the white flag trade.

kittle42
06-24-2007, 10:29 AM
Well, it will suck seeing probably my favorite player of the past decade go, but we knew it was going to happen.

southside rocks
06-24-2007, 10:31 AM
This makes me ill.

Ditto. To me, if anything could make this season worse, it would be dealing MB -- and to the Red Sox. Ugh.

getonbckthr
06-24-2007, 10:40 AM
As a Burls fan I hate this so much. As a Sox fan I love it for the teams sake. We aren't gonna resign so we might as well get something for him.

southside rocks
06-24-2007, 10:47 AM
As a Burls fan I hate this so much. As a Sox fan I love it for the teams sake. We aren't gonna resign so we might as well get something for him.

I haven't accepted yet that MB won't re-sign with the Sox. That is a deal that can get done and should get done.

Maybe I'm in denial, but this season that's a better place to be than sitting in the front row of this particular reality show, I guess. :whiner:

wassagstdu
06-24-2007, 10:53 AM
More and more lately I have been thinking that Buehrle is at the center of the collapse of the team. What happened at the break in 2006 that changed everything? Was it KW putting Ozzie in his place? Or was it MB turning down the Sox offer? As we can now see clearly, but maybe the team could see earlier, Buehrle's departure would be the end of the 2005 team -- far more than Dye's or Iguchi's, or anyone else's. If you are part of that team's success and you have subordinated your personal interest (stats) to the team, any fear that the team is disintegrating will make you think more about yourself and less about the team, which will accelerate the process. So the Buehrle situation was the tipping point.

If there is any truth to that (what do I know?) then it is crucial to get that situation resolved now. If there is any possibility of re-signing Mark, do it. If not, trade him right away, and with him much of the rest of the team. With MB I think this team could come back together (minus Dye). Without him, build from the ground up.

getonbckthr
06-24-2007, 10:54 AM
I haven't accepted yet that MB won't re-sign with the Sox. That is a deal that can get done and should get done.

Maybe I'm in denial, but this season that's a better place to be than sitting in the front row of this particular reality show, I guess. :whiner:
The reason I have accepted it and it can't get done is because Sox won't give more than 3 years Mark wants at least 5. Sox won't give more than 13-14 Mark wants Zito money yearly.

CLR01
06-24-2007, 11:07 AM
At least we will still have Uribe.

Law11
06-24-2007, 11:21 AM
Just heard Offerman say the Sox could not reach an extension with Mark and that he will have to be dealt per sources close to KW.

The Red Sox are the supposed front runners.

For what is worth..

CLR01
06-24-2007, 11:22 AM
Just heard Offerman say

Fantastic for you. Learn what a search button is.:rolleyes:

soxfanreggie
06-24-2007, 11:22 AM
ESPN was reporting this morning that he could be headed to Boston. That doesn't sit too well with me, but if we're going to trade him, I want to get the most value for him.

soxfanreggie
06-24-2007, 11:33 AM
Lady on ESPN was reporting it. I about spit out my OJ when I heard it was the Red Sox.

johnny_mostil
06-24-2007, 11:44 AM
ESPN was reporting this morning that he could be headed to Boston. That doesn't sit too well with me, but if we're going to trade him, I want to get the most value for him.

The Red Sox might be the most willing team in all of MLB to sell off their prize prospects. They have so much money they can always just buy veterans to fill any resulting holes. Clay Buchholz is supposedly untouchable, but Hanley Ramirez was, too, and he went to the Marlins in the Beckett deal.

Rockabilly
06-24-2007, 11:48 AM
I would hate to see Buehrle go but if he was traded to the Red sox I would love to get Bucholz, Ellsbury and Daniel Bard would be a very nice package for Mark

I can see the Sox 08 roster with at least 12 changes from this year opening day roster

whitesoxfan1986
06-24-2007, 12:14 PM
I would hate to see Buehrle go but if he was traded to the Red sox I would love to get Bucholz, Ellsbury and Daniel Bard would be a very nice package for Mark

I can see the Sox 08 roster with at least 12 changes from this year opening day roster
I'd be happy with that deal. But I think that you may have to replace Buchholz with Bowden.

Gammons Peter
06-24-2007, 12:29 PM
At least we will still have Uribe.

Fantastic for you. Learn what a search button is.:rolleyes:

This act is so tired

ozzie is god
06-24-2007, 12:30 PM
I would hate to see Buehrle go but if he was traded to the Red sox I would love to get Bucholz, Ellsbury and Daniel Bard would be a very nice package for Mark

I can see the Sox 08 roster with at least 12 changes from this year opening day roster


I don't see the Red Sox giving both Bucholz and Ellisbury for Mark. I see them giving only of of these and only if Mark signs with them long term IMO.

CLR01
06-24-2007, 12:31 PM
This act is so tired

Boo ****ing hoo. :whiner:

russ99
06-24-2007, 12:38 PM
I don't see the Red Sox giving both Bucholz and Ellisbury for Mark. I see them giving only of of these and only if Mark signs with them long term IMO.

And the Sox need a solid young hitter a lot more than add more pitching prospects to the large collection we already have...

ozzie is god
06-24-2007, 12:42 PM
And the Sox need a solid young hitter a lot more than add more pitching prospects to the large collection we already have...


I would welcome any trade that gets us hitters because our farm system offensively is not turning out major league ready hitters.

WhiteSox5187
06-24-2007, 12:46 PM
I find it interesting that we haven't heard what the offer to Mark was. If it was another one of these three year deals well below market price, I will go crazy. Buerhle has earned a solid offer from us. He's not Jamie Navarro. This is sad. Very sad. We're about to lose the best pitcher we've had in about fifteen years...shame on Kenny.

southside rocks
06-24-2007, 12:47 PM
The reason I have accepted it and it can't get done is because Sox won't give more than 3 years Mark wants at least 5. Sox won't give more than 13-14 Mark wants Zito money yearly.

I would have agreed with you -- before Konerko got a 5-year deal. I know, Burrhle's a pitcher and the Sox never go more than 3 years with a pitcher; but they COULD, for all kinds of good reasons, give a 5-year deal to Mark. And they know they could. And if they haven't offered that, then I have seriously overestimated KW. Which is possible.

I don't know what MB is looking for in this, I don't know if he really is after a Zito-type deal, so I have no idea how much credence to give what I read in the papers. Since the papers had Paulie on the Angels in late 2005, I am skeptical of what the writers claim to know.

But like I said, I have a little fantasy of MB with a 5-year, $70 million contract with the Sox, and I'm going to cling to that fantasy for every minute I possibly can. :tongue:

WhiteSox5187
06-24-2007, 12:53 PM
I would have agreed with you -- before Konerko got a 5-year deal. I know, Burrhle's a pitcher and the Sox never go more than 3 years with a pitcher; but they COULD, for all kinds of good reasons, give a 5-year deal to Mark. And they know they could. And if they haven't offered that, then I have seriously overestimated KW. Which is possible.


I think we've all overestimated Kenny. I'm just sick to my stomach right now. We'll re-sign Javy and Jose but not Buerhle? Just disgusting.

Hendu
06-24-2007, 12:53 PM
I think any trade involving Burles should net us his potential replacement AND fill another hole or 2, be it shortstop, outfield or bullpen. Otherwise, it comes across as a move just to save money.

Bucholz may be an up-and-coming stud, but Buehrle is a proven 200+ inning MLB pitcher who will give you 15 wins. Maybe a trade could include a window for the acquiring team to sign Buehrle to an extension?

I'm resigned to the fate that Mark is gone :(:

MrX
06-24-2007, 12:59 PM
I think we've all overestimated Kenny. I'm just sick to my stomach right now. We'll re-sign Javy and Jose but not Buerhle? Just disgusting.
:reinsy:
"Yes, blame Kenny. I'd love to give Mark a 5 year deal but Kenny won't let me."

Paulwny
06-24-2007, 01:00 PM
I think we've all overestimated Kenny. I'm just sick to my stomach right now. We'll re-sign Javy and Jose but not Buerhle? Just disgusting.


Not necessarily KW's fault. It's JR's rule , no contracts or extensions of >3 yrs for pitchers. KW's can only offer what the boss permits.

WhiteSox5187
06-24-2007, 01:03 PM
Not necessarily KW's fault. It's JR's rule , no contracts or extensions of >3 yrs for pitchers. KW's can only offer what the boss permits.
I still think that if Kenny wanted he could storm into JR's office and say "We need to re-sign this guy. He's worth more than just three years." And JR would relent. But I don't think Kenny is willing to do that. It's hard to believe that it was only two years ago that we won the World Series because both Kenny and Jerry are losing ALL their credibility at an extraordinary pace.

Paulwny
06-24-2007, 01:14 PM
I still think that if Kenny wanted he could storm into JR's office and say "We need to re-sign this guy. He's worth more than just three years." And JR would relent. But I don't think Kenny is willing to do that. It's hard to believe that it was only two years ago that we won the World Series because both Kenny and Jerry are losing ALL their credibility at an extraordinary pace.


I believe KW did talk to JR about MB's situation and that JR still isn't willing to give > 3 yr pitching contacts. We may never know.

Brian26
06-24-2007, 01:51 PM
I find it interesting that we haven't heard what the offer to Mark was.

It is irrelevant because we are fans who don't know the inner workings of the negotiation process, what each side is asking for, what the GM's and Asst GM's forecast for the market this winter, in addition to a number of other factors. Even if we knew what the offer was, it would be meaningless on its own.

Brian26
06-24-2007, 01:54 PM
It's hard to believe that it was only two years ago that we won the World Series because both Kenny and Jerry are losing ALL their credibility at an extraordinary pace.

Because JR's blown 17 saves this year and KW's batting .200?

The Sox payroll is at an all-time high as it is. And if the Sox were in first place right now, this Buehrle talk would be non-existent. We'd be going for another title.

munchman33
06-24-2007, 02:00 PM
I think most of you knocking Kenny or the organization for not signing Buehrle need to take a step back and think things out.

If you were Mark Buehrle, why would you accept anything from the Sox at this point other than way over market value. This team ****in' blows. And it has the potential to ****in' blow for a very long time. The team is old and expensive. And the minors are barren.

Ellsbury and Bucholz would be an absolute steal. Can't imagine a better scenerio for the Sox.

Brian26
06-24-2007, 02:02 PM
Ellsbury and Bucholz would be an absolute steal. Can't imagine a better scenerio for the Sox.

Those are two of the best prospects in baseball right now.

HotelWhiteSox
06-24-2007, 02:07 PM
Seeing him in Boston? Oh man, I'm going to be ill. Then he can get famous there and no one else will remember a legacy with the White Sox. What a horrible baseball year

WSox597
06-24-2007, 02:34 PM
I'd sure hate to see this happen. Right now the two TV announcers are talking about this, in between golf stories, and food stories, and other inane babbling.

One of the biggest possible trades in years, and these two bozos are babbling about food on road trips. "Well goolllleee, DJ..." I feel like that Aflac duck, shaking my head.

I hope the White Sox don't get taken to the cleaners, Mark is one of the best pitchers they've had in decades.

NardiWasHere
06-24-2007, 02:51 PM
I glanced on the sosh board to see what BoSox fans heard/thought. I find it so funny that here people are expecting nothing short of Ellsbury and Buchholz while over there, the feeling is "Mark would look great as a #3, maybe Lester or a group of B-level prospects would do the trick"...

Now, I'm sure in reality the talks are in the middle somewhere.... But realistically, what can we expect from the BoSox? (if in fact something is done)

SoxxoS
06-24-2007, 02:53 PM
Now, I'm sure in reality the talks are in the middle somewhere.... But realistically, what can we expect from the BoSox? (if in fact something is done)

That's the thing - It's not just the BoSox that want a guy with world series experience, a track record, and great stats this year (including a no hitter)...so those Boston fans are delusional (shocking I know) if they think they are going to get Burhrle for 60 cents on a dollar.

NardiWasHere
06-24-2007, 03:07 PM
That's the thing - It's not just the BoSox that want a guy with world series experience, a track record, and great stats this year (including a no hitter)...so those Boston fans are delusional (shocking I know) if they think they are going to get Burhrle for 60 cents on a dollar.

When do we become delusional? I mean, am I realistic for wanting their best pitching prospect or position player for a potential rent-a-player? Hell, I've heard both Buchholz and Ellsbury mentioned in the same deal in this thread....

And as far as other teams go... Didn't Omar Minaya say something about not trading Lastings for a rent-a-player? I don't know about you, but Milledge wouldn't necessarily be enough for me for Mark...

soxtalker
06-24-2007, 03:08 PM
I glanced on the sosh board to see what BoSox fans heard/thought. I find it so funny that here people are expecting nothing short of Ellsbury and Buchholz while over there, the feeling is "Mark would look great as a #3, maybe Lester or a group of B-level prospects would do the trick"...

Now, I'm sure in reality the talks are in the middle somewhere.... But realistically, what can we expect from the BoSox? (if in fact something is done)

Yes, I don't quite understand the urgency for Boston to make such a deal. There's probably some foundation to these rumors, but they've been playing well and have a big lead. Maybe it is planning for the play-offs.

Fenway
06-24-2007, 04:38 PM
WEEI and NESN both reporting Buehrle has agreed to an extension with Boston....no offical word yet

downstairs
06-24-2007, 04:39 PM
WEEI and NESN both reporting Buehrle has agreed to an extension with Boston....no offical word yet

Word on who we'd get?

I really hope we don't get screwed with the trades that will (should?) happen tonight.

HotelWhiteSox
06-24-2007, 04:40 PM
Well, this has the makings of ranking on my worst Sox weekends of all time

This extension # should be interesting

downstairs
06-24-2007, 04:40 PM
I thought yesterday it was 99% chance he was going to stay with the White Sox. I can't believe what writers get away with these days.

That's called the "Michael Jordan 99%". Leaves you the easy 1% out...

:cool:

soltrain21
06-24-2007, 04:41 PM
Details Fenway..DETAILS

Bulls_Fan
06-24-2007, 04:43 PM
We better get some damn fine prospects. I would love to have a prospect in the field. We have enough of young arms in our system.

RoobarbPie
06-24-2007, 04:43 PM
Fenway - any talk on the wrong sox boards about who would possibly be dealt back to us? Any possibility of Ellisbury or Bucholz? Or just mid-level guys?

MDF3530
06-24-2007, 04:45 PM
http://www.talksox.com/forum/rumor-mill/9225-mark-buehrle.html

voodoochile
06-24-2007, 04:45 PM
If it's contingent on the BoSox signing Buehrle to an extention, that should mean better players for the Sox...

KRS1
06-24-2007, 04:50 PM
Well, I think it's safe to say I'm not doing anything but sitting glued to my laptop until something happens here.

CHISOXFAN13
06-24-2007, 04:52 PM
If it's contingent on the BoSox signing Buehrle to an extention, that should mean better players for the Sox...

Exactly. They have some top tier prosects, and I would expect the White Sox will end up with two of them if a deal does go down.

Dick Allen
06-24-2007, 04:54 PM
I'm going to be sick. Now they get rid of one of the few bright spots of this season. I know you have to give to get, but I'm gonna puke.

soltrain21
06-24-2007, 04:54 PM
Wonder how much money is getting thrown at him..?

Fenway
06-24-2007, 04:57 PM
If it's contingent on the BoSox signing Buehrle to an extention, that should mean better players for the Sox...

Theo was shown on his cell and has now vanished. Something is up

soltrain21
06-24-2007, 04:58 PM
Seeing him in Boston? Oh man, I'm going to be ill. Then he can get famous there and no one else will remember a legacy with the White Sox. What a horrible baseball year

Ok, I thought Buerhle was good pitcher and a cool guy and what not...but a legacy? Come on now...

soltrain21
06-24-2007, 04:58 PM
Theo was shown on his cell and has now vanished. Something is up


GET TO THE AIRPORTS, PEOPLE!

getonbckthr
06-24-2007, 05:00 PM
1 down a handful to go.

DaveIsHere
06-24-2007, 05:00 PM
I would shed a tear to see him go, but if it helps us for the future so be it.

cws05champ
06-24-2007, 05:01 PM
I'm going to be sick!!!

getonbckthr
06-24-2007, 05:01 PM
GET TO THE AIRPORTS, PEOPLE!
I have faith in Fenway Reports.

HotelWhiteSox
06-24-2007, 05:02 PM
Theo was shown on his cell and has now vanished. Something is up

Taco Bell is never a good idea

soltrain21
06-24-2007, 05:02 PM
I have faith in Fenway Reports.


So do I. Just the whole "him vanishing on his cellphone" reminded me of that hilarious "I saw KW at the airport" thread.

getonbckthr
06-24-2007, 05:02 PM
I'm going to be sick!!!
Why are you gonna be sick? This is great news. I would have been sick if we didn't move him.

Mr. White Sox
06-24-2007, 05:03 PM
I'm all for this. Kenny has already said more or less that a Buehrle extension with the White Sox was nigh impossible, so if they can get some prime prospects for him now (as this season is finished), by all means go for it. Buchholz and Ellsbury or a SS would be awesome, but we'll see.

salty99
06-24-2007, 05:06 PM
At least we can see him pitch again in August and October!

TDog
06-24-2007, 05:06 PM
Why are you gonna be sick? This is great news. I would have been sick if we didn't move him.

Because moving Buehrle probably means another three years of sub-.500 baseball and talks in the media about moving the Sox to Portland.

Tragg
06-24-2007, 05:07 PM
For Freddie Garcia, a pitcher who is at least a grade below MB, and a terrible catcher, Ken Williams gave:

Starting catcher
One A prospect
One B prospect

Based upon what Ken Williiams, gave, he should receive a starting position player and two A prospects and a B prospect.

I'm guessing Willie Mo Pena and a couple of B or below prospects.

And if this is true, it's a sad, sad day, even if we get a great haul, whcih we damn well better. (realizing we had to move him).

soltrain21
06-24-2007, 05:08 PM
Because moving Buehrle probably means another three years of sub-.500 baseball and talks in the media about moving the Sox to Portland.


Yes, because him pitching great this year has really helped us out. Face it, we have a TON of holes...

Moving to Portland? *****.

getonbckthr
06-24-2007, 05:08 PM
Because moving Buehrle probably means another three years of sub-.500 baseball and talks in the media about moving the Sox to Portland.
We weren't gonna resign him why can't people understand that?

cws05champ
06-24-2007, 05:08 PM
Why are you gonna be sick? This is great news. I would have been sick if we didn't move him.

Somehow...I just have the feeling that we won't pick up Ellsbury or Bucholz. KW better get prime guys back or it will get ugly!! He could wait a couple weeks and let the bids go up.

UserNameBlank
06-24-2007, 05:09 PM
This thread is going to get so many tomatoes it's not even funny.

UserNameBlank
06-24-2007, 05:10 PM
Somehow...I just have the feeling that we won't pick up Ellsbury or Bucholz. KW better get prime guys back or it will get ugly!! He could wait a couple weeks and let the bids go up.
The only reason he'd have to pull the trigger on a fast deal would be if he got blown out of the water... hopefully if he is traded that is what happened.

soltrain21
06-24-2007, 05:10 PM
Well, its quite obvious Mark is about the money if he has already agreed to an extension with them....right?

cws05champ
06-24-2007, 05:10 PM
This thread is going to get so many tomatoes it's not even funny.

Unless the trade goes down in an hour or so...then the tomatoes will go to the Buehrle traded thread.

crazyozzie02
06-24-2007, 05:11 PM
is anyone listening to the score? have they said anything?

PatK
06-24-2007, 05:12 PM
Boston is afraid they've got to much offense. They're giving us Ortiz and Manny.

Sorry if that's not teal, I don't see colors too well.

TDog
06-24-2007, 05:12 PM
We weren't gonna resign him why can't people understand that?

Prospects won't win as many games as Buehrle would. It's subtraction by subtraction. Trading him is giving up on signing him. Ever. Why can't people understand that?

getonbckthr
06-24-2007, 05:13 PM
Prospects won't win as many games as Buehrle would. It's subtraction by subtraction. Trading him is giving up on signing him. Ever. Why can't people understand that?
Whats the difference between losing 81 games or 120 games? Nothing because the end result is the same no playoffs.

Mr. White Sox
06-24-2007, 05:14 PM
Well, its quite obvious Mark is about the money if he has already agreed to an extension with them....right?

You're a pitcher in a contract year. Do you:
-Take a three year, appx. $40 million deal with your current (crappy) team with which you have already won baseball's biggest prize?
-Take a five year, appx. $77 million deal with a contender and a chance to win again at a faster rate?

Factor in how a pitcher's health is never guaranteed, and I could totally see why he'd take option #2.

TDog
06-24-2007, 05:16 PM
Yes, because him pitching great this year has really helped us out. Face it, we have a TON of holes...

Moving to Portland? *****.

Every time since the late 1960s that the White Sox experience lean years, people talk about moving the franchise because no one goes out to the ballpark. Don't think it won't happen again.

WSox597
06-24-2007, 05:16 PM
Whee, the Sox are going to the Series if this trade goes down!!

Oh, wrong Sox...

About the only way this could be worse is if he got traded to the Cubs.

CHISOXFAN13
06-24-2007, 05:16 PM
Somehow...I just have the feeling that we won't pick up Ellsbury or Bucholz. KW better get prime guys back or it will get ugly!! He could wait a couple weeks and let the bids go up.

How do you know the bids haven't gone up? He's the best pitcher available on the market and Boston isn't the only team that showed interest.

Kenny got a great package for Garcia and people *****ed, so I'm sure regardless of what he gets in return for MB, the whining will commence again.

getonbckthr
06-24-2007, 05:18 PM
I think we've all overestimated Kenny. I'm just sick to my stomach right now. We'll re-sign Javy and Jose but not Buerhle? Just disgusting.
We tried resigning Mark he refused wheras Javy, Jose and Jon all agreed.

whitesoxfan
06-24-2007, 05:21 PM
Buccholtz and Bowden, please.

TDog
06-24-2007, 05:21 PM
Whats the difference between losing 81 games or 120 games? Nothing because the end result is the same no playoffs.


In my life, I've followed about 40 White Sox teams. When I lived in the Chicago area, I had season tickets. When I lived in Wisconsin I drove down every home weekend except for he the Cubs games. The 85 loss seasons were more fun than the 90 loss seasons, and they were more fun than the 100 loss season.

The 1977 season was fun and made a lot of people White Sox fans, but the White Sox were miles away from winning the division, and weren't even close to finishing second.

KRS1
06-24-2007, 05:21 PM
For Freddie Garcia, a pitcher who is at least a grade below MB, and a terrible catcher, Ken Williams gave:


I would say at the time of their trades (if Mark indeed gets moved now), they were of very equal value. Definitely not, "at least a grade below MB". He had a couple rough seasons ERA-wise the previous two years, but was dealing before the break in Seattle, and was a power pitcher with some really good stuff. I dont see how he was any grade less than Mark.

goon
06-24-2007, 05:22 PM
How do you know the bids haven't gone up? He's the best pitcher available on the market and Boston isn't the only team that showed interest.

Kenny got a great package for Garcia and people *****ed, so I'm sure regardless of what he gets in return for MB, the whining will commence again.

If a deal gets done, there will be a negative reaction from some fans, can't say I wouldn't expect there not to be. Buehrle is an above average pitcher who has been with the Sox for a while now.

But, if you can get a great package, you almost have to do it if Buehrle is not willing to sign an extension with the White Sox.

Paulwny
06-24-2007, 05:22 PM
It'll be interesting to see the $$ amount. I think the people who've claimed that there will be a market correction for players will be in for a surprize.

Huisj
06-24-2007, 05:23 PM
It's seemed inevitible for a while that MB would be gone at some point, but it'll make it hit harder if he ends up in a Red Sox uniform for the next number of years.

Luckily, I understand these situations a lot better than I did when I was 6 and Harold got traded to Texas. When my dad told me that, I thew my little script-C Sox hat on the ground, stomped on it, and cried that I'd never be a Sox fan again.

UserNameBlank
06-24-2007, 05:23 PM
I hope this is all a smokescreen and the real trade is Buehrle + Iguchi to the Yankees for Hughes, Tabata, Cabrera, and Cano.

getonbckthr
06-24-2007, 05:24 PM
In my life, I've followed about 40 White Sox teams. When I lived in the Chicago area, I had season tickets. When I lived in Wisconsin I drove down every home weekend except for he the Cubs games. The 85 loss seasons were more fun than the 90 loss seasons, and they were more fun than the 100 loss season.

The 1977 season was fun and made a lot of people White Sox fans, but the White Sox were miles away from winning the division, and weren't even close to finishing second.
I understand you want your team to win as many games as possible but at this point whats better for the franchise long term? If we don't trade Mark he will walk and we get 1 little draft pick that knowing our team we might not even sign. The alternative is trading him and getting value for Mark. I would prefer 2-4 prospects to 1 draft pick.

UserNameBlank
06-24-2007, 05:25 PM
I hope Buehrle doesn't become our reverse Carlton Fisk. I can't stand the Red Sox.

getonbckthr
06-24-2007, 05:26 PM
It'll be interesting to see the $$ amount. I think the people who've claimed that there will be a market correction for players will be in for a surprize.
If I had to guess 5 yr/83 million. If its 5/65 I will be extremely pissed off.

SABRSox
06-24-2007, 05:27 PM
But, if you can get a great package, you almost have to do it if Buehrle is not willing to sign an extension with the White Sox.

I prefer to frame that statement as Kenny not willing to sign Mark to a fair market value extension.

sox1970
06-24-2007, 05:28 PM
If I had to guess 5 yr/83 million. If its 5/65 I will be extremely pissed off.

He's getting more than $13 mill a year.

KRS1
06-24-2007, 05:28 PM
but it'll make it hit harder if he ends up in a Red Sox uniform for the next number of years.


Hey, you can always go with me in the denial route. I refuse to believe he going there until I see it officially, and until then I just take this as a plus that we can use the media to drive up his price tag. Teams hear we are close to dealing him, realize they need to submit a final serious offer or lose out on the pitcher who could be the key to breaking away from the pack in their divisional races, and with experience in the WS(wining the WS that is). Let the bidding war officially begin.

getonbckthr
06-24-2007, 05:29 PM
He's getting more than $13 mill a year.
Ya I know I think it will be 5/83 like I said.

getonbckthr
06-24-2007, 05:30 PM
Why does everyone care that he is going to Boston? Seriously who gives a damn where he goes. All I care is that this was the best deal available whether it was Boston, NYM, Atlanta or Seibu Lions from Japan.

sox1970
06-24-2007, 05:30 PM
Ya I know I think it will be 5/83 like I said.

I think 5 years/ $75.

ZombieRob
06-24-2007, 05:31 PM
Espnews Asked K.W if there is likely a trade between the 2 clubs,He said "not today".according to espnews.

TDog
06-24-2007, 05:31 PM
For Freddie Garcia, a pitcher who is at least a grade below MB, and a terrible catcher, Ken Williams gave:

Starting catcher
One A prospect
One B prospect

Based upon what Ken Williiams, gave, he should receive a starting position player and two A prospects and a B prospect.

I'm guessing Willie Mo Pena and a couple of B or below prospects.

And if this is true, it's a sad, sad day, even if we get a great haul, whcih we damn well better. (realizing we had to move him).

The White Sox would be improved by a solid defensive starting catcher, but it should be noted that none of the players that went to Seattle in the Garcia deal actually helped Seattle. People raved about can't-miss Jeremy Reed, who is back in AAA after hitting .217 last year. Most prospects don't live up to their promise. Some players, such as Mark Buehrle, far exceed their prospective promise.

MDF3530
06-24-2007, 05:31 PM
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070624&content_id=2046643&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

ZombieRob
06-24-2007, 05:32 PM
Why does everyone care that he is going to Boston? Seriously who gives a damn where he goes. All I care is that this was the best deal available whether it was Boston, NYM, Atlanta or Seibu Lions from Japan.
Not only that ,If he does go,He deserves to go to a winner.And IMO BoSox are a class team.

Gregory Pratt
06-24-2007, 05:32 PM
I doubt this is for real. There's nothing on the better Red Sox boards (think Sons of Sam Horn) about NESN and WEEI reporting anything, I doubt KW will just jump out right after this game and do it, and there's a lot to be hammered out. If it happens, it'll happen but I doubt this report is for real.

Next!

Mr. White Sox
06-24-2007, 05:34 PM
yeah, nothing on the Score either. Fenway may have jumped the gun on this one, as Kenny just said "not today" RE: a Buehrle trade.

Gosox1917
06-24-2007, 05:35 PM
Fenway,

Have the radio stations reported anything new or is this still just a rumor? I'm an intern at a TV station in South Bend and I'd like to confirm this before I start spreading the news. As of right now, I'm still treating this like a rumor.

sox1970
06-24-2007, 05:36 PM
yeah, nothing on the Score either. Fenway may have jumped the gun on this one, as Kenny just said "not today" RE: a Buehrle trade.

The Score is still in postgame mode. Rongey wouldn't say anything until it was official.

ozzie is god
06-24-2007, 05:37 PM
BUEHRLE TO BREWERS?

The Brewers, leading the NL Central by 8 games, are kicking around the idea of trading for White Sox left-hander Mark Buehrle a move that, while a longshot, would make sense.

The addition of Buehrle would give the Brewers a potentially formidable postseason rotation Buerhle, right-hander Ben Sheets, left-hander Chris Capuano and righty Jeff Suppan.

The move also would enable the Brewers to move righty Claudio Vargas or Dave Bush to the bullpen Bush was a closer at Wake Forest.

Here are the obstacles:

Approximately 10 teams are on Buehrle, including the Mets, Braves, Mariners and Buehrle's expected long-term choice, the Cardinals.

Buehrle, a potential free agent earning $9.5 million, would increase the Brewers' payroll by approximately $3 million if they acquired him on July 31.

The price in young talent might be prohibitive for the Brewers, who would resist giving up third baseman Ryan Braun or right-hander Yovani Gallardo.
The Brewers, though, should be open to trading other prospects. They could recoup two high draft picks by offering Buehrle salary arbitration an offer he surely would reject in order to sign a lucrative free-agent contract.

As for the payroll increase, the Brewers probably could absorb it their average home attendance has jumped from 28,835 last season to 32,949 this season. Owner Mark Attanasio has said in the past that the team has payroll flexibility.
Got this from the talksox.com I don't see the Brew Crew geting into the Buehrle sweepsatkes but If they could get Gallardo or Braun I would do it in a heartbeat. KW needs to take his time and make everyone wait to drive the price up.

Bill Naharodny
06-24-2007, 05:37 PM
The Score is still in postgame mode. Rongey wouldn't say anything until it was official and approved by Jerry Reinsdorf.

There -- fixed it for you.

TDog
06-24-2007, 05:39 PM
Not only that ,If he does go,He deserves to go to a winner.And IMO BoSox are a class team.

If he goes to Boston, people will believe him to be a better pitcher than they believe him to be with the White Sox. He'll instantly get more respect. Boston would seem a more difficult place for a finesse southpaw to pitch, but the Red Sox have had some excellent lefties over the years.

TDog
06-24-2007, 05:41 PM
BUEHRLE TO BREWERS?....

Considering that the Brewers lost to the Royals today on an 11-inning bases-loaded walk, Buehrle might feel more at home in Milwaukee.

hi im skot
06-24-2007, 05:44 PM
:puking:

StillMissOzzie
06-24-2007, 05:44 PM
Buccholtz and Bowden, please.

Yes, YES! He's my nephew!

SMO
:redface:

Gordon Gekko
06-24-2007, 05:46 PM
Yes, YES! He's my nephew!

SMO
:redface:

If a deal gets done this quickly I would assume KW has been shopping him actively for weeks.

soxtalker
06-24-2007, 05:46 PM
I doubt this is for real. There's nothing on the better Red Sox boards (think Sons of Sam Horn) about NESN and WEEI reporting anything, I doubt KW will just jump out right after this game and do it, and there's a lot to be hammered out. If it happens, it'll happen but I doubt this report is for real.

Next!

It might be worth waiting until the Red Sox (at SD) game is over; a lot of fans are probably focusing on the game. I've noticed that WSI boards (not chat) don't have a lot of action during games.

Bill Naharodny
06-24-2007, 05:47 PM
Since we're talking about the Red Sox, I think it's fair to add here that Carson Palmer was just on SportsCenter talking about how Dice-K's theories on throwing have helped him become a better quarterback. I am not kidding.

Oh, ESPN, is there no end to the greatness of Dice-K and the Red Sox?

AJ Hellraiser
06-24-2007, 05:48 PM
I literally just received a call from my friend who is a producer at the Score... one of their reporters just phoned in to let them know Mark Buehrle did not board the team charter plane to Tampa Bay....

I hate to say it, but all signs are pointing to an official trade being announced before many of us go to sleep tonight...

Would it be appropriate to call this the end of an era if/when it becomes official?

HotelWhiteSox
06-24-2007, 05:48 PM
I tried listening to WEEI online and all I get is Fox Sports Radio, unless they are actually talking about on the air of the game going on right now

Fenway
06-24-2007, 05:48 PM
source appears to be Sean McAdam of the Providence Journal. I called somebody at CBS4 and they think tomorrow. Buzz is strong

Tragg
06-24-2007, 05:49 PM
Luckily, I understand these situations a lot better than I did when I was 6 and Harold got traded to Texas. When my dad told me that, I thew my little script-C Sox hat on the ground, stomped on it, and cried that I'd never be a Sox fan again.

That one I understood....but when we traded Bucky Dent for Oscar Gamble (and didn't pay any attention to the minor league "throw in") I had a fit - and I was in college!

This one, I understand.

itsnotrequired
06-24-2007, 05:49 PM
:mg:

KRS1
06-24-2007, 05:49 PM
BUEHRLE TO BREWERS?

The Brewers, leading the NL Central by 8 games, are kicking around the idea of trading for White Sox left-hander Mark Buehrle a move that, while a longshot, would make sense.

The addition of Buehrle would give the Brewers a potentially formidable postseason rotation Buerhle, right-hander Ben Sheets, left-hander Chris Capuano and righty Jeff Suppan.

The move also would enable the Brewers to move righty Claudio Vargas or Dave Bush to the bullpen Bush was a closer at Wake Forest.

Here are the obstacles:

Approximately 10 teams are on Buehrle, including the Mets, Braves, Mariners and Buehrle's expected long-term choice, the Cardinals.

Buehrle, a potential free agent earning $9.5 million, would increase the Brewers' payroll by approximately $3 million if they acquired him on July 31.

The price in young talent might be prohibitive for the Brewers, who would resist giving up third baseman Ryan Braun or right-hander Yovani Gallardo.
The Brewers, though, should be open to trading other prospects. They could recoup two high draft picks by offering Buehrle salary arbitration an offer he surely would reject in order to sign a lucrative free-agent contract.

As for the payroll increase, the Brewers probably could absorb it their average home attendance has jumped from 28,835 last season to 32,949 this season. Owner Mark Attanasio has said in the past that the team has payroll flexibility.
Got this from the talksox.com I don't see the Brew Crew geting into the Buehrle sweepsatkes but If they could get Gallardo or Braun I would do it in a heartbeat. KW needs to take his time and make everyone wait to drive the price up.


This is a direct quote from Ken Rosenthal.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6955650

You should link the story, and use the quote feature.

Brian26
06-24-2007, 05:51 PM
Kenny's a seller, don't forget.

He's just buying high-priced prospects right now.

Rikirk
06-24-2007, 05:52 PM
Ok...this sucks like a proverbial Tornado

Gordon Gekko
06-24-2007, 05:53 PM
I literally just received a call from my friend who is a producer at the Score... one of their reporters just phoned in to let them know Mark Buehrle did not board the team charter plane to Tampa Bay....

I hate to say it, but all signs are pointing to an official trade being announced before many of us go to sleep tonight...

Would it be appropriate to call this the end of an era if/when it becomes official?

I would be interested to know how that reporter knows for certain that Buehrle did not board the plane. Otherwise it is pretty safe to assume that, if a contract extension is on the table from Boston, they may want him in town within the next 24-48 hours.

Tragg
06-24-2007, 05:54 PM
The White Sox would be improved by a solid defensive starting catcher, but it should be noted that none of the players that went to Seattle in the Garcia deal actually helped Seattle..
That's true but the ones we get may not work out either. As for Olivo, he played pretty well for us...he stunk for them, but he's okay with Florida.
It's a risk, which is why we should get a premium.

naprvllesoxfan
06-24-2007, 05:54 PM
Isn't his wife pregnant and due soon. Maybe she went into labor...lets hope that is the reason for him stayng behind.

spiffie
06-24-2007, 05:55 PM
All this thread needs now is a post from otis.

Brian26
06-24-2007, 05:55 PM
Every time since the late 1960s that the White Sox experience lean years, people talk about moving the franchise because no one goes out to the ballpark. Don't think it won't happen again.

Times change. This franchise has a television contract, a stadium, and a World Championship trophy now. They're not going anywhere.

Brian26
06-24-2007, 05:56 PM
All this thread needs now is a post from otis.

I literally was just going to post "where's Otis when you need him?"

cws05champ
06-24-2007, 05:56 PM
We tried resigning Mark he refused wheras Javy, Jose and Jon all agreed.

Jose and Jon was a different year, different market.

Over By There
06-24-2007, 05:57 PM
It would make some sense if Wily Mo Pena was part of a deal. He's rotting on the bench there behing Coco, Drew and Manny, and it gives KW a starting position player in return. I wouldn't mind - I think WMP could still be a solid player (offensively, at least) if given consistent ABs.

WMP plus Buchholtz and possibly a lesser prospect would work for me, as much as it pains me to say it.

Bill Naharodny
06-24-2007, 05:59 PM
Isn't his wife pregnant and due soon. Maybe she went into labor...lets hope that is the reason for him stayng behind.

No, I think I heard a clip of Williams saying it would be hard to trade Buehrle because he's close to him -- and just saw pictures of his brand new baby.

Maybe Mark's wife is having another baby this week?

:?:

RedHeadPaleHoser
06-24-2007, 06:00 PM
Man...this sucks outright.....

Soxheads
06-24-2007, 06:01 PM
No, I think I heard a clip of Williams saying it would be hard to trade Buehrle because he's close to him -- and just saw pictures of his brand new baby.

Maybe Mark's wife is having another baby this week?

:?:

He saw pics of the ultrasound.

getonbckthr
06-24-2007, 06:01 PM
It would make some sense if Willie Mo Pena was part of a deal. He's rotting on the bench there behing Coco, Drew and Manny, and it gives KW a starting position player in return. I wouldn't mind - I think WMP could still be a solid player (offensively, at least) if given consistent ABs.

WMP plus Buchholtz and possibly a lesser prospect would work for me, as much as it pains me to say it.
Please god no.

getonbckthr
06-24-2007, 06:02 PM
Jose and Jon was a different year, different market.
Doesn't matter they accepted Mark didn't.

cws05champ
06-24-2007, 06:02 PM
It would make some sense if Willie Mo Pena was part of a deal. He's rotting on the bench there behing Coco, Drew and Manny, and it gives KW a starting position player in return. I wouldn't mind - I think WMP could still be a solid player (offensively, at least) if given consistent ABs.

WMP plus Buchholtz and possibly a lesser prospect would work for me, as much as it pains me to say it.

Possibly why they have to wait until the Bosox game is over before the trade can be announced.

Bill Naharodny
06-24-2007, 06:04 PM
He saw pics of the ultrasound.

Good call. That is what he said.

itsnotrequired
06-24-2007, 06:05 PM
Possibly why they have to wait until the Bosox game is over before the trade can be announced.

It's over now.

soltrain21
06-24-2007, 06:05 PM
Wily Mo? We already have enough guys who strike out. No thank you.

StillMissOzzie
06-24-2007, 06:06 PM
Buchholtz and Lowrie or Ellsbury and Bowden, either one would be a fair deal. Bowden and Lowrie, however, not so much.

Buchholz should be included in the deal first and foremost. Bowden is from nearby Waubonsie Valley high IIRC, so the Sox should have a good bead on him from scounting him for the draft. I am not as high on Bowden as most, but that is just me.


I'd be happy with that deal. But I think that you may have to replace Buchholz with Bowden.
That's my nephew you're talking about!

I still think that if Kenny wanted he could storm into JR's office and say "We need to re-sign this guy. He's worth more than just three years." And JR would relent. But I don't think Kenny is willing to do that. It's hard to believe that it was only two years ago that we won the World Series because both Kenny and Jerry are losing ALL their credibility at an extraordinary pace.
Aren't you just the cutest thing? They're so funny at that age!
Seriously, though, *****

SMO
:gulp:

itsnotrequired
06-24-2007, 06:07 PM
Doesn't matter they accepted Mark didn't.

Of course it matters. I highly doubt Garland would have taken the deal he got in today's market.

A. Cavatica
06-24-2007, 06:07 PM
Channel 7 news in Boston, whatever that is (NBC), reported that a Buehrle deal was close. Heard it with my own ears.

Sure, Pena's available, but he makes no sense for us. Another all-or-nothing slugger who can't field? I don't think so.

If dealt, Buehrle would certainly be worth any of Boston's prospects: Ellsbury, Lester, Buchholz, whomever. Craig Hansen and Manny Delcarmen are relief prospects who have not had ML success; they could be involved too. Of the major leaguers, Crisp is the type of player (read: ex-Indian) KW likes to acquire. Buehrle would be taking Julian Tavarez's rotation spot, so he'd be available. Even Julio Lugo might be available.

I really don't know which players out of that crop I'd want. Ellsbury has the buzz, but trading Chris Young to get Vaz and then getting a CF back when we lose Buehrle? :o: I think we suffer at both positions.

Dan Mega
06-24-2007, 06:08 PM
Wily Mo? We already have enough guys who strike out. No thank you.

A Red Sox fan/friend of mine hates WMP with a passion. She is hoping its WMP and Lugo :o:

itsnotrequired
06-24-2007, 06:08 PM
If Pena is involved, KW may be looking to deal him to another team.

SoxandtheCityTee
06-24-2007, 06:08 PM
Buehrle's wife was still pregnant yesterday, according to the article on the team site about his truck breaking down.

I thought I heard back when the pregnancy was announced that the due date was July 1 -- some media doofus was joking with Mark about it being the trade deadline -- if so, today is certainly a possibility. Let's see what happens.

Edit: I meant July 30 -- so it'd be a month early? Nevermind.

getonbckthr
06-24-2007, 06:10 PM
A Red Sox fan/friend of mine hates WMP with a passion. She is hoping its WMP and Lugo :o:
If that is what we get in return KW should be fired immediately.

Mr. White Sox
06-24-2007, 06:11 PM
If that is what we get in return KW should be fired immediately.

If we get either of those players KW should seriously consider neurological testing. Hell, throw in J.D. Drew while they're at it!

HotelWhiteSox
06-24-2007, 06:12 PM
It sounds like 'not today' was a quote from before today's game, so you never know

Jerry_Manuel
06-24-2007, 06:13 PM
I've been watching the Red Sox post game show on NESN. No mention of Buehrle or the White Sox.

CLR01
06-24-2007, 06:14 PM
A Red Sox fan/friend of mine hates WMP with a passion. She is hoping its WMP and Lugo :o:



KW will have serious security issues if that is the case.

Over By There
06-24-2007, 06:14 PM
Wily Mo? We already have enough guys who strike out. No thank you.

Another all-or-nothing slugger who can't field? I don't think so.

Fair enough, I'm no fan of his defense either. But if you haven't noticed, stellar defense isn't exactly what's troubling us. Scoring a run or two would be helpful.

Tragg
06-24-2007, 06:14 PM
No Lugo or Pena? Don't forget Coco Crisp?

For a first place club, the Red Sox sure have a lot of stiffs, none of whom we need.

Saying that a player would be a "starter" is an awfully broad term, considering the talent that qualifies as a Sox starter these days.

MDF3530
06-24-2007, 06:15 PM
A Red Sox fan/friend of mine hates WMP with a passion. She is hoping its WMP and Lugo :o:No thanks, we have enough guys swinging from their heels.

UserNameBlank
06-24-2007, 06:16 PM
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:s2NtS6G5cvYOZM:http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/3558/erstad6qx.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/3558/erstad6qx.jpg&imgrefurl=http://mvn.com/mlb-whitesox/2007/05/11/mr-gritty-to-keep-leadoff-spot/&h=577&w=375&sz=44&hl=en&start=6&sig2=jkkPMfOU2cHbo2iK2vmJKA&um=1&tbnid=s2NtS6G5cvYOZM:&tbnh=134&tbnw=87&ei=F_t-Rsr5JpTKiwGl29joDg&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddarin%2Berstad%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1% 26hl%3Den)
"Can I go in this deal, too?"

itsnotrequired
06-24-2007, 06:17 PM
KW will not trade pitching unless he gets pitching in return, especially when we are talking about a starter and double especially when we are talking about Buehrle. WMP and Lugo for Buehrle will not happen.

EndemicSox
06-24-2007, 06:27 PM
:angry::angry::angry::gulp:

Unless the Sox get one of Bowden/Bucholtz in return, I'm not going to be a happy camper. I believe championship teams are built around pitchers like Buehrle, and I hope this move isn't based solely upon the owners reluctance to pay top dollar for pitching. Oh well, I wish Buehrle nothing but the best in Boston/Atlanta/St. Louis, or wherever he may end up. :gulp:

Tragg
06-24-2007, 06:30 PM
KW will not trade pitching unless he gets pitching in return.
How are we supposed to fill our positional holes, as our best players and all of our depth is in pitching if we can't trade pitching?

Fenway
06-24-2007, 06:30 PM
I've been watching the Red Sox post game show on NESN. No mention of Buehrle or the White Sox.

Pregame were the Globe people yacking TC and Rice will not talk rumors.

itsnotrequired
06-24-2007, 06:32 PM
How are we supposed to fill our positional holes, as our best players and all of our depth is in pitching if we can't trade pitching?

Positional players are easier to replace than starting pitchers.

krohnjw
06-24-2007, 06:39 PM
Positional players are easier to replace than starting pitchers.

True, but we have little relief in sight with respect to the prospects coming up (excluding possibly Fields and Sweeney). We still have big holes at 2b and ss with no heir apparent.

We do seem to have a good amount of young pitching (especially with the success Danks has already seen). Masset could still possibly be an option for a starter along with the likes of Gio/Broadway/Haeger.

As much as it sucks to trade Buehrle - it may end up benefiting us, especially if we were going to lose him in the off season. It does give me a reason to buy another Road Grey :redface:

KW has done a good job amassing young arms for SP...we will eventually need to address the lack of depth at other positions in the minors - and this may be a way to restock those reserves.

Soxheads
06-24-2007, 06:42 PM
True, but we have little relief in sight with respect to the prospects coming up (excluding possibly Fields and Sweeney). We still have big holes at 2b and ss with no heir apparent.

We do seem to have a good amount of young pitching (especially with the success Danks has already seen). Masset could still possibly be an option for a starter along with the likes of Gio/Broadway/Haeger.

As much as it sucks to trade Buehrle - it may end up benefiting us, especially if we were going to lose him in the off season. It does give me a reason to buy another Road Grey :redface:

KW has done a good job amassing young arms for SP...we will eventually need to address the lack of depth at other positions in the minors - and this may be a way to restock those reserves.

Quite the spectrum there.

Daver
06-24-2007, 06:44 PM
True, but we have little relief in sight with respect to the prospects coming up (excluding possibly Fields and Sweeney). We still have big holes at 2b and ss with no heir apparent.

We do seem to have a good amount of young pitching (especially with the success Danks has already seen). Masset could still possibly be an option for a starter along with the likes of Gio/Broadway/Haeger.

As much as it sucks to trade Buehrle - it may end up benefiting us, especially if we were going to lose him in the off season. It does give me a reason to buy another Road Grey :redface:

KW has done a good job amassing young arms for SP...we will eventually need to address the lack of depth at other positions in the minors - and this may be a way to restock those reserves.

Haeger is not an option unless Donny Lucy makes great strides, AJ can't catch a knuckleballer, Lucy can.

Lip Man 1
06-24-2007, 06:46 PM
Based on Kenny's comments in the link posted earlier in this thread at White Sox. com it sounds like the chances are now close to zero in re-signing Mark when he hits free agent status.


"Don Cooper added that, even if Buehrle becomes the centerpiece of a major trade, the White Sox could bring him back next year and for years to come through free agency. Williams didn't sound optimistic about that prospect, unless Jeff Berry, Buehrle's representative, comes to the White Sox with a new offer or the White Sox "have an epiphany of some sort."

"Sure, you can always hold out hope for that, but we're not working toward that," Williams said. "

Lip

Rockabilly
06-24-2007, 07:03 PM
if these radio stations are reporting its very close to happening.. Why isn't anyone else mentioning it like Gammons, Rosenthal or Stark...

California Sox
06-24-2007, 07:10 PM
That's my nephew you're talking about!

Cool.

How would you feel about your nephew coming to the Sox? Excited? Or would you have to stop coming to WSI because you wouldn't want to read know-nothings like me spouting off about the kid after a bad game?

thomas35forever
06-24-2007, 07:21 PM
I've been thinking of buying a Buehrle jersey, but I may have to reconsider if a Boston deal is imminent.

TDog
06-24-2007, 07:33 PM
I've been thinking of buying a Buehrle jersey, but I may have to reconsider if a Boston deal is imminent.

You could buiy a Red Sox jersey.

thomas35forever
06-24-2007, 07:36 PM
You could buiy a Red Sox jersey.
:rolling:

kevingrt
06-24-2007, 07:36 PM
He's staying for a week at least

getonbckthr
06-24-2007, 07:40 PM
With the young arms we have and will get in upcoming trades is KW setting up for a run at Carl Crawford?

thomas35forever
06-24-2007, 07:43 PM
With the young arms we have and will get in upcoming trades is KW setting up for a run at Carl Crawford?
The Rays are as likely to trade Crawford as the Royals are to trade Sweeney. He's their franchise player and the only guy keeping that pathetic team afloat.

whitesoxfan1986
06-24-2007, 07:47 PM
I think we're all going to be irate about the return for Buehrle. I think that if we trade with the Red Sox, then ALL of Lester, Buchholz, Ellsbury, Bowden and Bard will still be with the Red Sox organization after the trade has been completed. I think that Kenny will probably get 2 "B" prospects, 1 "C" prospect and either Pena or Crisp. People will be calling for Kenny's head on a silver platter, and IMO they'll have every reason to do so.

soltrain21
06-24-2007, 07:48 PM
He's staying for a week at least


How do you know?

NardiWasHere
06-24-2007, 07:54 PM
I think we're all going to be irate about the return for Buehrle. I think that if we trade with the Red Sox, then ALL of Lester, Buchholz, Ellsbury, Bowden and Bard will still be with the Red Sox organization after the trade has been completed. I think that Kenny will probably get 2 "B" prospects, 1 "C" prospect and either Pena or Crisp. People will be calling for Kenny's head on a silver platter, and IMO they'll have every reason to do so.

Just curious... why?

Frater Perdurabo
06-24-2007, 07:58 PM
I oppose trading Buehrle under almost any circumstances. But I more strenuously oppose the Sox unwillingness to sign him to a long-term, market-value contract. I root for the "laundry," not individual players, but IMHO Buehrle is the most "untradeable" player on the roster. He's been the team MVP since 2001.

If money is an issue, I would trade any other player on the roster in order to free up money to sign Buehrle.

If JR is unwilling to bend his "rule" for signing pitchers to long-term contracts, and thus "forces" KW to try to get something for him, JR is an idiot and deserves our scorn for being "cheap, timid and stupid."

If KW is unwilling or unable to convince JR to make an exception for Buehrle, he's not doing a good job as GM.

If Buehrle is traded, I'll still root for the team, but my opinion of KW and JR will sink far, far lower.

Refusing to sign, and thus trading, Buehrle would be worse than:

Trading Baines, who although still a great hitter, by 1989 was just a DH;

Letting Frank go and get #500 elsewhere;

Cutting Carlton Fisk during a road trip;

The White Flag deal (none of those pitchers meant as much to the Sox as Buehrle does).

Mark my words - refusing to re-sign Buehrle and thus trading him WILL GO DOWN AS THE WORST DECISION IN WHITE SOX HISTORY SINCE THROWING THE 1919 WORLD SERIES.

Tragg
06-24-2007, 08:02 PM
I think we're all going to be irate about the return for Buehrle. I think that if we trade with the Red Sox, then ALL of Lester, Buchholz, Ellsbury, Bowden and Bard will still be with the Red Sox organization after the trade has been completed. I think that Kenny will probably get 2 "B" prospects, 1 "C" prospect and either Pena or Crisp. People will be calling for Kenny's head on a silver platter, and IMO they'll have every reason to do so.
You get 2 high draft choices, which are more valuable than b prospects, for offering him arbitration, so that type of trade would make zero sense. (and Crisp or Pena would be ridiculous; cyncial really).

In the White Flag, the Giants withheld their top 2 or 3 prospects, and the Sox got really a mediocre return (a couple of years of Howry and Foulke) for trading 3 major league pitchers. Scheuler wouldn't trade his players to the AL teams, which cost us Lowe and Varitek (who were given for 1/2 the package we gave).

A. Cavatica
06-24-2007, 08:03 PM
if these radio stations are reporting its very close to happening.. Why isn't anyone else mentioning it like Gammons, Rosenthal or Stark...

Sean McAdam is an excellent baseball writer, with good Red Sox connections. If (as claimed) he's reporting it -- and I haven't heard it from him, only online and on the Boston media -- then I believe it.

The Bosox need a starter for Tuesday night in Seattle, with Schilling on the DL. They may be a little more eager to close the deal now than they will be in 24 hours.

Hendu
06-24-2007, 08:05 PM
Prospects won't win as many games as Buehrle would. It's subtraction by subtraction. Trading him is giving up on signing him. Ever. Why can't people understand that?

Well, sure-fire prospects plus using the money we would have paid Buehrle to fill a few of our other holes might help in the 2008 win column.

anewman35
06-24-2007, 08:05 PM
If JR is unwilling to bend his "rule" for signing pitchers to long-term contracts, and thus "forces" KW to try to get something for him, JR is an idiot and deserves our scorn for being "cheap, timid and stupid."

Mark my words - refusing to re-sign Buehrle and thus trading him WILL GO DOWN AS THE WORST DECISION IN WHITE SOX HISTORY SINCE THROWING THE 1919 WORLD SERIES.

I'm curious - and I'm not saying this will happen, or is even likely to happen, but if it does - what happens if, say, Buehrle goes to Boston, they resign him for 5 years, and he goes and has 2 good years and then gets hurt and misses a season, or has 2 seasons in a row like last year? Does that change anything?

The rule about not signing pitchers for over 3 years is annoying in that we can't really sign many big pitchers, but it makes some sense. How many teams have been stuck with horrible contracts after signing pitchers to 4 or 5 (or more!) year deals?

NardiWasHere
06-24-2007, 08:08 PM
I oppose trading Buehrle under almost any circumstances. But I more strenuously oppose the Sox unwillingness to sign him to a long-term, market-value contract. I root for the "laundry," not individual players, but IMHO Buehrle is the most "untradeable" player on the roster. He's been the team MVP since 2001.

If money is an issue, I would trade any other player on the roster in order to free up money to sign Buehrle.

If JR is unwilling to bend his "rule" for signing pitchers to long-term contracts, and thus "forces" KW to try to get something for him, JR is an idiot and deserves our scorn for being "cheap, timid and stupid."

If KW is unwilling or unable to convince JR to make an exception for Buehrle, he's not doing a good job as GM.

If Buehrle is traded, I'll still root for the team, but my opinion of KW and JR will sink far, far lower.

Refusing to sign, and thus trading, Buehrle would be worse than:

Trading Baines, who although still a great hitter, by 1989 was just a DH;

Letting Frank go and get #500 elsewhere;

Cutting Carlton Fisk during a road trip;

The White Flag deal (none of those pitchers meant as much to the Sox as Buehrle does).

Mark my words - refusing to re-sign Buehrle and thus trading him WILL GO DOWN AS THE WORST DECISION IN WHITE SOX HISTORY SINCE THROWING THE 1919 WORLD SERIES.

What if you just don't want to tie up that large percentage of your payroll into a single pitcher for that long of a time? I'd love for them to keep Mark as much as the next guy, but to anoint a trade in which no players have switched teams as the worst decision in 88 years for THIS franchise is harsh.

Dan Mega
06-24-2007, 08:10 PM
KW will not trade pitching unless he gets pitching in return, especially when we are talking about a starter and double especially when we are talking about Buehrle. WMP and Lugo for Buehrle will not happen.

Yeah thats understandable.

She was just hoping thats what Boston would give up for Buerhle.

whitesoxfan1986
06-24-2007, 08:22 PM
You get 2 high draft choices, which are more valuable than b prospects, for offering him arbitration, so that type of trade would make zero sense.
Of course it makes zero sense. I wasn't saying that I'd advocate that kind of trade, I said I'd be calling for Kenny's head on a silver platter if that type of trade was made. I think that a fair return for Mark(from our standpoint) is Buchholz, Bowen, and Ellsbury and if we get those 3 Boston can throw in Crisp if we throw in Haeger or a fringe major leaguer. for all I care.

...
06-24-2007, 08:35 PM
Of course it makes zero sense. I wasn't saying that I'd advocate that kind of trade, I said I'd be calling for Kenny's head on a silver platter if that type of trade was made. I think that a fair return for Mark(from our standpoint) is Buchholz, Bowen, and Ellsbury and if we get those 3 Boston can throw in Crisp if we throw in Haeger or a fringe major leaguer. for all I care.

Don't hold your breath...

A. Cavatica
06-24-2007, 08:36 PM
Here's my analysis of what Boston needs. It's a lot less than what we need, which worries me, because they certainly don't need Buehrle. Keeping him away from the Yankees would be part of their motivation.

* Lefthanded starter
* Depth at catcher
* (Possible) upgrade at short
* (Possible) upgrade in center
* (Possible) bullpen/bench depth
* Prepare for the future without Schilling, Wakefield, Manny, Varitek, Lowell

Except for catcher and short, they've got potential replacements in hand. Lester is almost back from injury, Ellsbury should be ready next season, Buchholz is not far away, Pena can provide power and butcher fly balls to left.

How about Buerhle and Mackowiak for Buchholz, Ellsbury and a low-level pitching prospect? That might work.

thomas35forever
06-24-2007, 08:38 PM
Btw, did anyone know that Buehrle's dad works at a mill in St. Louis? I found that out at work today.

getonbckthr
06-24-2007, 08:39 PM
Mark my words - refusing to re-sign Buehrle and thus trading him WILL GO DOWN AS THE WORST DECISION IN WHITE SOX HISTORY SINCE THROWING THE 1919 WORLD SERIES.
Just curious where are guys like Freddy Garcia, Estaban Loiaza, Jack Mcdowell, Alex Fernandez, Wilson Alvarez and Jaime Navarro at? Those are all guys besides Navarro who the Sox either traded or let go when everyone felt we should resigned them. Garcia is hurt, Loiza I believe is hurt, Mcdowell was average at best after leaving here as was Fernandez and Alvarez. As far as Jaime Navarro how did that contract workout for us? It appears this organization for the most part (besides Navarro) has good judgement on the status of pitchers. Not saying Burls is gonna follow their routes but if the Sox feel that Mark will not contribute 16-18 million dollars worth of performance I trust their judgement.

kevingrt
06-24-2007, 08:41 PM
Btw, did anyone know that Buehrle's dad works at a mill in St. Louis? I found that out at work today.

Classic.

UserNameBlank
06-24-2007, 08:51 PM
People are talking about the Garcia deal as far as what our minimal return should be, but there was the Jennings deal this past offseason.

Jennings and Miguel Ascencio to HOU for Willy Taveras (young, above average CF and solid leadoff hitter who had produced in the Majors), Jason Hirsch (a top pitching prospect), and Taylor Buccholz (decent upside RP)

Granted, Jennings was an offseason acquisition and the Astros have him for a full season, but Jennings isn't even close to the type of pitcher that Buehrle is.

Boston will have to throw in 2 top prospects who are close to major league ready or one top prospect and a young productive position player (Pedroia) plus a smaller piece. If they don't want to deal that much than we shouldn't trade Mark, at least not to them. Not only is Mark one the best pitchers in baseball, but he's the face of the franchise. If Mark goes there will be a lot of people calling for the heads of KW and JR, so Kenny had better get a package that he can justify.

anewman35
06-24-2007, 08:53 PM
It appears this organization for the most part (besides Navarro) has good judgement on the status of pitchers. Not saying Burls is gonna follow their routes but if the Sox feel that Mark will not contribute 16-18 million dollars worth of performance I trust their judgement.

Exactly. Buehrle is good, but THAT good to the extent that I think that it's smart to sign him to a really expensive 5 year contract. He's not the thing to make or break the team - last year the Sox won 90 games when he had a bad year and this year they'll be lucky to win 60 with him having a good year.

I think the people who are saying that it's a huge mistake think it's a huge mistake for emotional reasons, not logical reasons. It'll be sad to see him go, but (at least based on what we've seen this year), this team is going nowhere and they don't have a whole lot of hope for the future, we need to get in as many quality prospects as possible.

anewman35
06-24-2007, 08:56 PM
Not only is Mark one the best pitchers in baseball, but he's the face of the franchise. If Mark goes there will be a lot of people calling for the heads of KW and JR, so Kenny had better get a package that he can justify.

I'd argue that Konerko is more the face of the franchise than Buehrle. But anyway, anybody who calls for the head of KW or JR just doesn't understand how the world works. If we keep Buehrle, then it's quite likely we'll have another horrible team next year. I'd rather get rid of Buehrle and have some hope.

UserNameBlank
06-24-2007, 09:00 PM
I'd argue that Konerko is more the face of the franchise than Buehrle. But anyway, anybody who calls for the head of KW or JR just doesn't understand how the world works. If we keep Buehrle, then it's quite likely we'll have another horrible team next year. I'd rather get rid of Buehrle and have some hope.
I would argue against that. Most fans don't like dealing franchise players for guys who may or may not pan out sometime down the road. If KW gets what he should get I'll support it even though I'd rather see Mark re-signed, but there will be a whole lot of "Sox are cheap" articles written and a ton of fans who agree with those articles.

AJ Hellraiser
06-24-2007, 09:01 PM
I just wanted to update everyone on my earlier post about MB not being on the team charter...

about 1 hour and 15 minutes after I made that post I received a call from the same person.. the Score's Sox source was at the airport... Buehrle did not board the team plane but then got on a private jet with his agent heading for Tampa Bay...

The source thinks something broke down for the time being with whomever the team was... whether it was contractual issues or players we'd be getting in return I don't know...

But, I felt obligated to let all know so that if the see Mark on the bench tomorrow night they won't rip me a new one... Clearly if a deal isn't finalized by Wednesday he'll make his next start in a WHITE Sox uniform

Tragg
06-24-2007, 09:01 PM
People are talking about the Garcia deal as far as what our minimal return should be, but there was the Jennings deal this past offseason.

Jennings and Miguel Ascencio to HOU for Willy Taveras (young, above average CF and solid leadoff hitter who had produced in the Majors), Jason Hirsch (a top pitching prospect), and Taylor Buccholz (decent upside RP)

I like that example; the Rockies got a nice haul (although it's a stretch to describe Taveras as a solid leadoff hitter, especially at the time the trade was made)

itsnotrequired
06-24-2007, 09:05 PM
I'd argue that Konerko is more the face of the franchise than Buehrle. But anyway, anybody who calls for the head of KW or JR just doesn't understand how the world works. If we keep Buehrle, then it's quite likely we'll have another horrible team next year. I'd rather get rid of Buehrle and have some hope.

The Sox is the only team Buehrle has ever known. The Sox drafted him in the 38th round and turned him into one of the best southpaws in the league. Konerko was drafted by the Dodgers and came to Chicago via Cincinnati. He didn't do much with either team but Buehrle is the current face of the franchise, hands down.

getonbckthr
06-24-2007, 09:10 PM
The Sox is the only team Buehrle has ever known. The Sox drafted him in the 38th round and turned him into one of the best southpaws in the league. Konerko was drafted by the Dodgers and came to Chicago via Cincinnati. He didn't do much with either team but Buehrle is the current face of the franchise, hands down.
Paul Konerko is the face and soul and breath and backbone of the Chicago White Sox. When they chose to rid themselves of Thomas they made the transition from Thomas to Paulie. There is reason why they gave him that contract. There is a reason he is the captain. If Burls was the face of the franchise he would have started Opening Day again.

anewman35
06-24-2007, 09:11 PM
The Sox is the only team Buehrle has ever known. The Sox drafted him in the 38th round and turned him into one of the best southpaws in the league. Konerko was drafted by the Dodgers and came to Chicago via Cincinnati. He didn't do much with either team but Buehrle is the current face of the franchise, hands down.

I'd bet that most fans don't even know that Konerko was on other teams, and I don't even think it matters in this case. Honestly, I don't even care who the "face of the franchise" is, but I think it's worth noting the three players on the covers of this year's media guide: Konerko, Thome, and Dye. And I've seen Konerko and Dye on pocket schedules this year, I haven't seen Buehrle (although it's possible there is one and I haven't seen it). I'm not saying Buehrle isn't A face of the franchise, he's just not THE face of the franchise.

Gregory Pratt
06-24-2007, 09:12 PM
I just wanted to update everyone on my earlier post about MB not being on the team charter...

about 1 hour and 15 minutes after I made that post I received a call from the same person.. the Score's Sox source was at the airport... Buehrle did not board the team plane but then got on a private jet with his agent heading for Tampa Bay...

The source thinks something broke down for the time being with whomever the team was... whether it was contractual issues or players we'd be getting in return I don't know...

But, I felt obligated to let all know so that if the see Mark on the bench tomorrow night they won't rip me a new one... Clearly if a deal isn't finalized by Wednesday he'll make his next start in a WHITE Sox uniform

I was about to say similar. It isn't unusual for players to go on private jets instead of with the team. There are all sorts of reasons for this. Today's might've been, of course, a potential trade. I don't know. (I do know this "Buehrle has agreed to extension!" post was bunk.) But sometimes, a player goes through something in their personal life and needs to stick around a little bit, especially at "Home."

So take it for what it's all worth and wait until something more credible comes.

Gregory Pratt
06-24-2007, 09:15 PM
Dye and Thome aren't faces of the franchise. No way! They and Konerko are on the cover because "chicks dig the longball!" and so does the average fan. Then there's the great season they had last year and it's a no-brainer.

Who's the face of the franchise? Konerko. And Ozzie.

It's really hard for a pitcher to be a "face of the franchise" because everyday players play everyday and the public generally relates to them more.

Personally, Buehrle's my face of the franchise, along with Ozzie, but I am in the minority. I don't like Konerko much, after all.

UserNameBlank
06-24-2007, 09:15 PM
I like that example; the Rockies got a nice haul (although it's a stretch to describe Taveras as a solid leadoff hitter, especially at the time the trade was made)
Not really, I mean Taveras is a career .289 hitter with a career .334 OBP and very good speed. His numbers aren't fantastic, but they are definitely solid for that kind of player. At the time of the trade (after the 2006 season) he'd posted a .278 BA, .333 OBP, and was 33-42 in SB.

itsnotrequired
06-24-2007, 09:19 PM
Paul Konerko is the face and soul and breath and backbone of the Chicago White Sox. When they chose to rid themselves of Thomas they made the transition from Thomas to Paulie. There is reason why they gave him that contract. There is a reason he is the captain. If Burls was the face of the franchise he would have started Opening Day again.

That's not how it works.

UserNameBlank
06-24-2007, 09:20 PM
Paul Konerko is the face and soul and breath and backbone of the Chicago White Sox. When they chose to rid themselves of Thomas they made the transition from Thomas to Paulie. There is reason why they gave him that contract. There is a reason he is the captain. If Burls was the face of the franchise he would have started Opening Day again.
If Mark had a typical year in '06 he probably would have been the opening day starter. At the same time, if Paulie had put up his 2003 numbers again in 2006 he wouldn't have been the opening day cleanup hitter.

Tragg
06-24-2007, 09:20 PM
At the time of the trade (after the 2006 season) he'd posted a .278 BA, .333 OBP, and was 33-42 in SB.
For a leadoff hitter, that obp is way deficient, imo.
I'd like to see a slapper like Taveras take pitches, but that's a discussion for a different thread and day.
The Astros were dangling him during the offseason cheap - I was mildly surprised that we didn't get him, as our staff seems to like that sort of player.

oeo
06-24-2007, 09:20 PM
Here's my analysis of what Boston needs. It's a lot less than what we need, which worries me, because they certainly don't need Buehrle. Keeping him away from the Yankees would be part of their motivation.

* Lefthanded starter
* Depth at catcher
* (Possible) upgrade at short
* (Possible) upgrade in center
* (Possible) bullpen/bench depth
* Prepare for the future without Schilling, Wakefield, Manny, Varitek, Lowell

Except for catcher and short, they've got potential replacements in hand. Lester is almost back from injury, Ellsbury should be ready next season, Buchholz is not far away, Pena can provide power and butcher fly balls to left.

How about Buerhle and Mackowiak for Buchholz, Ellsbury and a low-level pitching prospect? That might work.

We can throw in Uribe, as well. Uribe (although isn't very good) is having a better offensive year and he's a hell of a lot better defender. Put him in the Red Sox lineup, he'll probably string more hits together and bat a good .240-.250 with superb defense. That would be nice to see Uribe shipped out.

nodiggity59
06-24-2007, 09:25 PM
What about this:

Buerhle
Iguchi

Pedroia
Pena
#2 or #3 best BoSox SP prospect

AJ Hellraiser
06-24-2007, 09:25 PM
I'd bet that most fans don't even know that Konerko was on other teams, and I don't even think it matters in this case. Honestly, I don't even care who the "face of the franchise" is, but I think it's worth noting the three players on the covers of this year's media guide: Konerko, Thome, and Dye. And I've seen Konerko and Dye on pocket schedules this year, I haven't seen Buehrle (although it's possible there is one and I haven't seen it). I'm not saying Buehrle isn't A face of the franchise, he's just not THE face of the franchise.

Buehrle was on the cover of the pocket schedule for the 2005 season....

Tragg
06-24-2007, 09:25 PM
We can throw in Uribe, as well. Uribe (although isn't very good) is having a better offensive year and he's a hell of a lot better defender. Put him in the Red Sox lineup, he'll probably string more hits together and bat a good .240-.250 with superb defense. That would be nice to see Uribe shipped out.
Interesting idea; Lugo's never been good defensively and I heard today that he went 0/19 this week. Uribe's an upgrade.

I'm surprised the BoSox would want MB for a rent (they have the division wrapped). But a rent to sign makes great sense. Look at their top 3 for the next several years - Beckett, Dice and MB - pretty salty and all in their prime. Let's see the Yankees top that.

Fenway
06-24-2007, 09:28 PM
IF and I stress the word IF we will know more at 11:30 eastern. That is when WBZ4 airs Sports Final. On Sunday nights everything goes through them as WEEI runs Fox radio. WFAN is saying the Mets in the mix.

UserNameBlank
06-24-2007, 09:29 PM
For a leadoff hitter, that obp is way deficient, imo.
I'd like to see a slapper like Taveras take pitches, but that's a discussion for a different thread and day.
The Astros were dangling him during the offseason cheap - I was mildly surprised that we didn't get him, as our staff seems to like that sort of player.
It all depends on what type of direction your team wants to take in regards to what is and isn't a good OBP for a leadoff hitter. Sure, a Youkilis type gets on base a lot more but he can't do the same kind of things a Taveras can do for a club. Willy may get on less during a season but he can score from 1B on most doubles, score from 2B on singles, steal bases, and turn walks and singles into extra base hits. Someone like a Youkilis for example has to have the offense behind him do more work in order for him to cross home plate. It's all a matter of opinion really, and there aren't many perfect combos around (like Ichiro and his career .379 OBP) so you take the approach that you think works best for you. Ozzie is an aggressive manager so I think that lower OBP + speed would work pretty well for him.

Gregory Pratt
06-24-2007, 09:32 PM
What about this:

Buerhle
Iguchi

Pedroia
Pena
#2 or #3 best BoSox SP prospect

That is a garbage trade and Kenny Williams would hang up the phone on that as he should.

Tragg
06-24-2007, 09:34 PM
Ozzie is an aggressive manager so I think that lower OBP + speed would work pretty well for him.
I agree, he would appeal to the Sox; the Astros had Pence ready and waiting, so they had Taveras out there cheap. Surprised we didn't make an offer (maybe we did, just surmising).

Hitmen77
06-24-2007, 09:34 PM
Wily Mo? We already have enough guys who strike out and are hitting .220. No thank you.

Fixed it for you.

Daver
06-24-2007, 09:36 PM
IF and I stress the word IF we will know more at 11:30 eastern. That is when WBZ4 airs Sports Final. On Sunday nights everything goes through them as WEEI runs Fox radio. WFAN is saying the Mets in the mix.

You won't know a damn thing, the MLB office has to approve any trade, and they are closed till Monday morning.

UserNameBlank
06-24-2007, 09:41 PM
I agree, he would appeal to the Sox; the Astros had Pence ready and waiting, so they had Taveras out there cheap. Surprised we didn't make an offer (maybe we did, just surmising).
When we were shopping Garland we supposedly wanted Pence too, or maybe instead of Taveras, but the deal fell through when HOU wouldn't include him in the deal. That's too bad though, because a Pence-Taveras-Hirsch package for Garland would have been mouth-watering IMO. I love Garland, but man, we'd be set in the OF and at the top of the order, and Hirsch isn't too shabby himself (despite what his Coors numbers say).

UserNameBlank
06-24-2007, 09:44 PM
You won't know a damn thing, the MLB office has to approve any trade, and they are closed till Monday morning.
Last time I checked the entire world revolves around Boston.

...
06-24-2007, 09:46 PM
You won't know a damn thing, the MLB office has to approve any trade, and they are closed till Monday morning.

I'm pretty sure it's possible to know more about a potential deal without consulting MLB... You are right, nothing will be official until approved by Selig.

mikeybooyah
06-24-2007, 09:50 PM
You won't know a damn thing, the MLB office has to approve any trade, and they are closed till Monday morning.

It is definitely possible to know about a trade before it has been approved by MLB. As soon as the parties agree, a "source" usually informs somebody.

Google "pending league approval" and you'll see hundreds of news stories about trades that haven't gotten a given league's seal of approval.

Fenway
06-24-2007, 09:52 PM
You won't know a damn thing, the MLB office has to approve any trade, and they are closed till Monday morning.

Granted It does appear the Sun Times is the main Chicago source ESPN citing them on bottom line.

Frater Perdurabo
06-24-2007, 09:58 PM
Just curious where are guys like Freddy Garcia, Estaban Loiaza, Jack Mcdowell, Alex Fernandez, Wilson Alvarez and Jaime Navarro at? Those are all guys besides Navarro who the Sox either traded or let go when everyone felt we should resigned them. Garcia is hurt, Loiza I believe is hurt, Mcdowell was average at best after leaving here as was Fernandez and Alvarez. As far as Jaime Navarro how did that contract workout for us? It appears this organization for the most part (besides Navarro) has good judgement on the status of pitchers. Not saying Burls is gonna follow their routes but if the Sox feel that Mark will not contribute 16-18 million dollars worth of performance I trust their judgement.

Mark Buehrle is not Garcia, Loaiza, McDowell, Fernandez, Alvarez or Navarro.

Garcia was developed elsewhere and relied on velocity to get guys out. When his velocity tanked, he wasn't as effective. He also admitted that he didn't get himself motivated to pitch against inferior opponents (KC, TB, etc.). Coop brought out Loaiza's best for a season, until the league adjusted to him. The Sox knew McDowell had a hip injury and wisely chose not to sign him long-term. Fernandez and Alvarez were power pitchers. Both always were a risk for blowing out their arms, and eventually both did. Neither one was as smart as Buehrle. Navarro had a decent arm but a stupid head.

Buehrle is an extremely smart pitcher who doesn't rely on high velocity or arm-wrenching breaking balls to get guys out. He doesn't have any injury issues of which any of us are aware. He knows how to pitch to win at the Cell. He's also a fantastic teammate. Unlike many poster's favorite player, he's NEVER said anything bad or stupid about a teammate. (He's never made such an outrageously stupid statement like, "Royce Clayton was the best defensive shortstop.") He also has said he wants to pitch his entire career with the Sox. He has the perfect "makeup" to be a 300-game winner. Everything about Buehrle suggests that, barring a freak and unpredictable injury, he can anchor a rotation for the next decade. He's the next Tom Glavine.

Not offering Buehrle a market-value deal (money and years) is cheap, timid and stupid.
:kukoo:

You want to talk about stupid decision-making? How about JR letting his emotions get in the way by giving Paulie the extra year and money after Paulie gave JR the ball from the final out? Building a team around a one-dimensional first-baseman prone to long slumps instead of a workhorse ace pitcher fits the very definition of STUPID.
:kukoo:

santo=dorf
06-24-2007, 09:59 PM
Where's the White Sox fan with a supposed Red Sox source, Otis?

CLR01
06-24-2007, 10:03 PM
Where's the White Sox fan with a supposed Red Sox source, Otis?

Hopefully posting on a board far far away from here.

santo=dorf
06-24-2007, 10:06 PM
Hopefully posting on a board far far away from here.
He'll probably tell us KW just turned down a Buehrle, Jenks, Broadway, and Thome for Buckholz, Ortiz, and Crisp deal

ChiSoxGirl
06-24-2007, 10:18 PM
This makes me ill.

I'm with you, Brian. The mere thought of Buehrls being traded is more than I can stomach. I absolutely LOVE Buehrls and EVERYTHING he stands for & represents as a member of the Sox and as a person. He's such a fan favorite and the face of this organization. The more I see Buehrls, the more I see the similarities between him & Robin Ventura. If Buehrls gets traded, there's no doubt about it, I WILL cry. :whiner:

Brian26
06-24-2007, 10:20 PM
Hopefully posting on a board far far away from here.

Why do you say that? Otis proved to a credible source.

getonbckthr
06-24-2007, 10:20 PM
I'm with you, Brian. The mere thought of Buehrls being traded is more than I can stomach. I absolutely LOVE Buehrls and EVERYTHING he stands for & represents as a member of the Sox and as a person. He's such a fan favorite and the face of this organization. The more I see Buehrls, the more I see the similarities between him & Robin Ventura. If Buehrls gets traded, there's no doubt about it, I WILL cry. :whiner:
Cry if you must but the reality of the present situation is that we have no other option. Marks camp and the organization are too far off on contract talks. Burls is not worth what he feels he is. The only logical option is to trade him and get value out of him.

Brian26
06-24-2007, 10:22 PM
He'll probably tell us KW just turned down a Buehrle, Jenks, Broadway, and Thome for Buckholz, Ortiz, and Crisp deal

Again, why the Otis bashing? He was all over the rumors back in '04 that were circulating around the whole Mags for Nomar deal right before the ARod stuff got hot with Boston/NYY/Texas.

oeo
06-24-2007, 10:26 PM
Mark Buehrle is not Garcia, Loaiza, McDowell, Fernandez, Alvarez or Navarro.

Garcia was developed elsewhere and relied on velocity to get guys out. When his velocity tanked, he wasn't as effective. He also admitted that he didn't get himself motivated to pitch against inferior opponents (KC, TB, etc.). Coop brought out Loaiza's best for a season, until the league adjusted to him. The Sox knew McDowell had a hip injury and wisely chose not to sign him long-term. Fernandez and Alvarez were power pitchers. Both always were a risk for blowing out their arms, and eventually both did. Neither one was as smart as Buehrle. Navarro had a decent arm but a stupid head.

Buehrle is an extremely smart pitcher who doesn't rely on high velocity or arm-wrenching breaking balls to get guys out. He doesn't have any injury issues of which any of us are aware. He knows how to pitch to win at the Cell. He's also a fantastic teammate. Unlike many poster's favorite player, he's NEVER said anything bad or stupid about a teammate. (He's never made such an outrageously stupid statement like, "Royce Clayton was the best defensive shortstop.") He also has said he wants to pitch his entire career with the Sox. He has the perfect "makeup" to be a 300-game winner. Everything about Buehrle suggests that, barring a freak and unpredictable injury, he can anchor a rotation for the next decade. He's the next Tom Glavine.

Not offering Buehrle a market-value deal (money and years) is cheap, timid and stupid.
:kukoo:

You want to talk about stupid decision-making? How about JR letting his emotions get in the way by giving Paulie the extra year and money after Paulie gave JR the ball from the final out? Building a team around a one-dimensional first-baseman prone to long slumps instead of a workhorse ace pitcher fits the very definition of STUPID.
:kukoo:

Wow, what do you know, the Paulie hater doesn't like that he's on our team. :?:

Right now this team needs changes. I'm one of his biggest fans and was one of the very few that supported the guy last year, but he's our best bargaining chip. We can get a ton for him. I love him, I'll probably cry myself when he's traded, but it needs to be done for the future of this team. Signing him to a 5 year contract is not going to help this team get better. Many say they want to rebuild...well, why are you going to pay Buehrle during rebuilding years? Get some young guys that should be ready in the next year or so and we'll be back in business.

hose
06-24-2007, 10:47 PM
Again, why the Otis bashing? He was all over the rumors back in '04 that were circulating around the whole Mags for Nomar deal right before the ARod stuff got hot with Boston/NYY/Texas.

Wasn't Tony not Otis the guy that was a bit over the top with inside info?

JB98
06-24-2007, 10:52 PM
I'm not real happy about the idea of trading Buerhle, but I'll wait and see what we get in return before I react.

DickAllen72
06-24-2007, 11:01 PM
Again, why the Otis bashing? He was all over the rumors back in '04 that were circulating around the whole Mags for Nomar deal right before the ARod stuff got hot with Boston/NYY/Texas.
Otis seemed as credible as anyone else.

He was always civil, lucid, and didn't call names, get involved in flame wars or continually bash players. I don't understand why he's being bashed here now when he's not even been posting here.

I think most of us here would welcome Otis posting whatever he hears regarding this subject or anything regarding the White Sox.

Otis' input was always appreciated by many here.

Edit: Actually, he's only being bashed here by two posters.