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KingXerxes
06-22-2007, 11:25 PM
The year is 1982.

:hawk

"Well I'd like to thank my good friend Don Drysdale - and say Hi to all of our veiwers on Sports Channel. This is our initial broadcast, and we hope you're as happy to be with us as we are bringing the game to you."

A few years later.

:hawk

"Let me tell something to all you reporters. I still say that Carlton Fisk would have made one helluva a left fielder - and it would have extended his career. Also I swear I'm never gonna tell any of you reporters any secrets from here on in, because all you ever do is stick it up my keester by putting it in the next day's newspaper."

Twenty years ago.

:hawk

"Wimpy - if you ever faced ol' Sam McDowell let me tell you that this was one guy who wasn't afraid of putting you right on your fanny. Yessir.......I remember one time he hit ol' Gates Brown right in the keester three times in the same at bat. Yessir........ol' League Park in Cleveland...........Mercy."

Five years ago.

:hawk

"C'mon.............STRETCH.............STRETCH..... ......Oh mercy sakes alive he made the catch falling on his keester."


Lately.

:hawk

"Dadgummit DJ. You stick around this golldurned game you see more dingdanged malarkey by just sitting around on your waffdinged keester and just watching. That's all just watching and talking about some of the most dingfurned plays your gerderned eyes ever did see."

:DJ

"What the hell language are you speaking?"

:hawk

"Dadgummed golldurned right DJ!"

:DJ

"What?"

I hope this guys sticks around 20 more years or so. I can't wait

The year is 2027

:DJ

"Hawk - you may not know it, but this is 3,000th broadcast together."

:hawk

"Zubbbbbbbbbbb.......me meep....glooooooooooooock......yaddajetty.......ke ester.............whoooooyah!"

IlliniSox4Life
06-22-2007, 11:29 PM
"Zubbbbbbbbbbb.......me meep....glooooooooooooock......yaddajetty.......ke ester.............whoooooyah!"

The King never disappoints in a post. I can't stop laughing at that last exchange.

Viva Medias B's
06-22-2007, 11:29 PM
Thank you, King! We need this really bad after a day like today! You are in our debt.

Boondock Saint
06-22-2007, 11:34 PM
whoooooyah!"
:rolling:

Nellie_Fox
06-22-2007, 11:39 PM
Far below usual Xerxes quality.

KingXerxes
06-22-2007, 11:40 PM
Far below usual Xerxes quality.

Hey Nellie - they can't all be grand slams. I'm just getting back into this.

valkyrie
06-22-2007, 11:43 PM
Hee.

I about died the other day when Hawk was talking about somebody who pooped his pants after getting his first hit at Yankee Stadium, and then DJ was all "You can't say that" so then Hawk said, "Soiled himself!" Then he went on about something to do with rats as big as a mongoose.

Even though I don't know *** he's talking about, I love him.

jongarlandlover
06-22-2007, 11:48 PM
"Zubbbbbbbbbbb.......me meep....glooooooooooooock......yaddajetty.......ke ester.............whoooooyah!"

:D:

thanks for the laugh, i certainly needed it!

WhiteSoxJunkie
06-23-2007, 12:11 AM
Hee.

I about died the other day when Hawk was talking about somebody who pooped his pants after getting his first hit at Yankee Stadium, and then DJ was all "You can't say that" so then Hawk said, "Soiled himself!" Then he went on about something to do with rats as big as a mongoose.

Even though I don't know *** he's talking about, I love him.

I heard that too! I think that was the best Hawk story I've ever heard. I love Hawk, but sometimes I just don't know why.

StillMissOzzie
06-23-2007, 12:34 AM
Thank you, King! We need this really bad after a day like today! You are in our debt.

I think (hope?) they meant that WE are in YOUR debt, Kingsy. Not your best work, but a much-needed chuckle on a dismal day.

Now how about Farmio and Singleton? Please?

SMO
:praying:

MRM
06-23-2007, 01:22 AM
Far below usual Xerxes quality.

I've never seen Xerxes before but this was lame.

MUsoxfan
06-23-2007, 01:25 AM
I've never seen Xerxes before but this was lame.

He's out of practice. You can't just stop playing golf for 3 years only to return and shoot 65 your first time back. I think part of the problem is he set the bar too high years ago. I certainly applaud the effort

MRM
06-23-2007, 01:53 AM
He's out of practice. You can't just stop playing golf for 3 years only to return and shoot 65 your first time back.

I can relate to that, though I can't equate posting in here to golf in level of difficulty...You are either funny or ya aren't, it's not that simple in golf.

StillMissOzzie
06-23-2007, 02:08 AM
I can relate to that, though I can't equate posting in here to golf in level of difficulty...You are either funny or ya aren't, it's not that simple in golf.

Did you see the "Best Thread Ever" tounament in the Parking Lot not too long ago? King X's "Ask Farmio" was a finalist! I highly recommend you digging that one up for some big time laughs.

SMO
:gulp:

Nellie_Fox
06-23-2007, 02:13 AM
Xerxes has been great at capturing the essence of our broadcasters. Where I thought this one failed was the "future Hawk" blubbering and making no sense at all. You might not like Hawk, but that was just too far for me.

Nobody has captured the essence of Farmer better.

roylestillman
06-23-2007, 08:21 AM
I can relate to that, though I can't equate posting in here to golf in level of difficulty...You are either funny or ya aren't, it's not that simple in golf.

...and I suppose you thought the Live Africam watering hole was dull, too.

Railsplitter
06-23-2007, 08:30 AM
Hawkish is a language all its own.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-23-2007, 08:48 AM
The rest of you can debate the quality of humor. I really don't care.

King's central point is well-founded. Hawk Harrelson is getting worse, and the rate of his decline is increasing.

He has been whining like a little girl inside the booth for weeks now... bad calls, bad breaks, just missed... blah blah blah. The Sox would have 60 wins by now if Hawk's "breaks" had just gone the Sox' way.
:o:

The new "DADGUMMIT!" shriek is a new low. I challenge anyone to say it isn't. He is using it more and more, and somebody besides me already noted that it is only a matter of time before he ****s it up and says what he really meant to say.

If you think this **** is entertaining, more power to you. Find some alternate audio feed and listen to two fans do their best beer, fart, and sexual innuendo shtick to distract you from how lousy the Sox are playing. If you like Hawk's homespun nonsense, you ought to die for this.

tick53
06-23-2007, 10:10 AM
Funny. I first I thought it was a Yosemite Sam thread.:D: He and the old Hawkeroo use the same language.

Brian26
06-23-2007, 10:53 AM
I sort of view the King Xeres stuff in the same way some people talk about Steve Dahl and his "calls to Iran" back in the day. People to this day rave about those and how great they were, as they were groundbreaking material in 1979. Maybe were funny at the time, but if you put "A Decade of Service" into your cd or tape player and listen to it, it's pretty weak.

As for the Hawk bit to start this thread, it wasn't funny at all. There have been some funny Hawk parodies on here over the years, but this wasn't one of them.

Brian26
06-23-2007, 11:12 AM
He has been whining like a little girl inside the booth for weeks now... bad calls, bad breaks, just missed... blah blah blah. The Sox would have 60 wins by now if Hawk's "breaks" had just gone the Sox' way.
:o:

The new "DADGUMMIT!" shriek is a new low. I challenge anyone to say it isn't. He is using it more and more, and somebody besides me already noted that it is only a matter of time before he ****s it up and says what he really meant to say.

If you think this **** is entertaining, more power to you. Find some alternate audio feed and listen to two fans do their best beer, fart, and sexual innuendo shtick to distract you from how lousy the Sox are playing. If you like Hawk's homespun nonsense, you ought to die for this.

I think it could be worse. We could have the same pathetic performance on the field and have to listen to Gary Thorne or Len Kasper in the booth. I'll take Hawk any day of the week.

The Dadgumit schtick is just like any of the other gimmicks Hawk has done over the years, whether he was talking about shark cartilage, the "stretch", "some might be as good, but none are better", etc. It's what you get with Hawk, and I rather have that than a generic, bland, national guy who doesn't bleed silver and black.

KingXerxes
06-23-2007, 02:51 PM
The rest of you can debate the quality of humor. I really don't care.

King's central point is well-founded. Hawk Harrelson is getting worse, and the rate of his decline is increasing.

He has been whining like a little girl inside the booth for weeks now... bad calls, bad breaks, just missed... blah blah blah. The Sox would have 60 wins by now if Hawk's "breaks" had just gone the Sox' way.
:o:

The new "DADGUMMIT!" shriek is a new low. I challenge anyone to say it isn't. He is using it more and more, and somebody besides me already noted that it is only a matter of time before he ****s it up and says what he really meant to say.

If you think this **** is entertaining, more power to you. Find some alternate audio feed and listen to two fans do their best beer, fart, and sexual innuendo shtick to distract you from how lousy the Sox are playing. If you like Hawk's homespun nonsense, you ought to die for this.

PaleHoseGeorge - Methinks you got the point quite well.

The reason I stopped visiting this, and all other boards related to baseball, was that I got so unbelievably disgusted with the obvious steroid use in the game, and the fact that records were being broken like little girls' hearts - yet way too many involved in the game (owners and players alike) all sat around in some sort of weird "ignore it and it will go away" manner.

While I am very taken aback (and honored) that I was a finalist for the all time thread with "Ask Farmio", I'm not sure that it would be possible to do anything like that again - at least not with the expectations of "Ask Farmio" out there.

p.s. I actually thought the funniest thread I ever did involved Blue Moon Odom and his "heavy fastball".

Johnny Mostil
06-23-2007, 03:15 PM
PaleHoseGeorge - Methinks you got the point quite well.

The reason I stopped visiting this, and all other boards related to baseball, was that I got so unbelievably disgusted with the obvious steroid use in the game, and the fact that records were being broken like little girls' hearts - yet way too many involved in the game (owners and players alike) all sat around in some sort of weird "ignore it and it will go away" manner.

While I am very taken aback (and honored) that I was a finalist for the all time thread with "Ask Farmio", I'm not sure that it would be possible to do anything like that again - at least not with the expectations of "Ask Farmio" out there.

p.s. I actually thought the funniest thread I ever did involved Blue Moon Odom and his "heavy fastball".

Link on Odom and "heavy fastball," please?

I wouldn't worry about the expectations of the "Ask Farmio" thread. I'm sure you gave the detractors in this thread at least as much comedic value as they paid you for it . . .

Nellie_Fox
06-23-2007, 09:01 PM
Since I made the first negative post in this thread, I was thinking about it. I've enjoyed every other Xerxes post in the past; why did I react negatively to this one?

I came to the conclusion that it was because past ones weren't mean-spirited. You could laugh at them even if you were a fan of the target. This one was mean spirited in the way it ended, and you have to be a Hawk-hater to enjoy it.

Just my .02.

Johnny Mostil
06-23-2007, 09:30 PM
Since I made the first negative post in this thread, I was thinking about it. I've enjoyed every other Xerxes post in the past; why did I react negatively to this one?

I came to the conclusion that it was because past ones weren't mean-spirited. You could laugh at them even if you were a fan of the target. This one was mean spirited in the way it ended, and you have to be a Hawk-hater to enjoy it.

Just my .02.

I'm guessing the "heavy fastball" thread is this one (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=24096).

I can understand why one might think jokes about senility fall flat (somewhat like I think jokes about the "short bus" aren't funny at all). So I'd recognize your opinion here (and on other things, Professor) as being worth more than two cents. Although I also thought PHG (as Xerxes confirmed) had it about right . . .

Vernam
06-23-2007, 09:47 PM
Each year I get tired sooner of Hawk. It used to take until August, then last year it was July. And this year, I didn't even make it to June, but I can't completely blame him given how the team has played. If he'd just give the Sam McDowell references a rest . . .

Vernam

KingXerxes
06-24-2007, 04:36 PM
Since I made the first negative post in this thread, I was thinking about it. I've enjoyed every other Xerxes post in the past; why did I react negatively to this one?

I came to the conclusion that it was because past ones weren't mean-spirited. You could laugh at them even if you were a fan of the target. This one was mean spirited in the way it ended, and you have to be a Hawk-hater to enjoy it.

Just my .02.

Nellie - I will readily admit to thinking that Ken Harrelson is one of the biggest self-promoters I've ever seen in a broadcast booth. We don't need to get into a huge debate with this - it's been done before ad nauseum.

Today is a perfect example of what I'm talking about with him. While I don't have a rule book at my disposal right now, IIRC an obstruction play (much like a balk call during a pitch) is allowed to go on, and afterward it is sorted out to provide the most favorable outcome (due to the obstruction) to the team that was obstructed. It is not an automatic dead ball.

If you had a chance to listen to "Hawk" he starts going off in the most half-cocked manner, and then after being shown that he was wrong, he starts talking about how the 2nd base umpire "blew it" by not stopping the play.

If this clown was as half as knowledgable as he claims to be, then he would have not indicted the entire umpiring crew, be proven wrong, and then started on the 2nd base umpire.

Why doesn't the great stand-up guy get on the air and admit that he totally blew the call on the television? You'll never hear it.

p.s. In switching between Comcasy and WGN, the Cubs broadcast crew (bland as it may be), knew what was going on and understood the ruling. Our side just had to keep finding someone to blame for totally messing up their broadcast.

johnny_mostil
06-24-2007, 04:47 PM
Today is a perfect example of what I'm talking about with him. While I don't have a rule book at my disposal right now, IIRC an obstruction play (much like a balk call during a pitch) is allowed to go on, and afterward it is sorted out to provide the most favorable outcome (due to the obstruction) to the team that was obstructed. It is not an automatic dead ball.

Congratulations, King Xerxes, you have common sense! The problem is the same situation came up in the Boston-Oakland ALDS in 2003, and the umpires destroyed an Oakland rally by not doing what you wrote after Bill Mueller obstructed Miguel Tejada. Baseball exhaustively claimed that the umpires got that right (since it probably cost the A's a big inning in a game they lost in extra innings in a series where they were up 2-0). If they did, then they butchered the call today.

Brian26
06-24-2007, 04:50 PM
Nellie - I will readily admit to thinking that Ken Harrelson is one of the biggest self-promoters I've ever seen in a broadcast booth. We don't need to get into a huge debate with this - it's been done before ad nauseum.

Today is a perfect example of what I'm talking about with him.

How the hell did anything Hawk say have to do with him self-promoting himself? The umpires screwed up, which is evident by the fact that they had to have a 15 minute conference on the field to figure out what the hell to do.

While I don't have a rule book at my disposal right now, IIRC an obstruction play (much like a balk call during a pitch) is allowed to go on, and afterward it is sorted out to provide the most favorable outcome (due to the obstruction) to the team that was obstructed. It is not an automatic dead ball.

If you had a chance to listen to "Hawk" he starts going off in the most half-cocked manner, and then after being shown that he was wrong, he starts talking about how the 2nd base umpire "blew it" by not stopping the play.

If you actually saw the broadcast, Hawk never once claimed that the ball should have been dead until Rich Garcia, the umpire's supervisor in the booth next to these guys, passed Hawk a note saying the play should have been ruled dead.

If this clown was as half as knowledgable as he claims to be, then he would have not indicted the entire umpiring crew, be proven wrong, and then started on the 2nd base umpire.

Why doesn't the great stand-up guy get on the air and admit that he totally blew the call on the television? You'll never hear it.

He didn't blow the call. Did you even see the game?

p.s. In switching between Comcasy and WGN, the Cubs broadcast crew (bland as it may be), knew what was going on and understood the ruling.

Wrong again. I flipped over to WGN, and Bob Brenly as plain as day said he thought there should be two outs. After the commercial, Hawk said Brenly talked to him and they'd never seen something like this before in their careers where the umpires called two runners out on a play and everyone got to go back to their bases.

Enough with the anti-Hawk crusade. It's tired.

KingXerxes
06-24-2007, 04:57 PM
How the hell did anything Hawk say have to do with him self-promoting himself? The umpires screwed up, which is evident by the fact that they had to have a 15 minute conference on the field to figure out what the hell to do.



If you actually saw the broadcast, Hawk never once claimed that the ball should have been dead until Rich Garcia, the umpire's supervisor in the booth next to these guys, passed Hawk a note saying the play should have been ruled dead.



He didn't blow the call. Did you even see the game?



Wrong again. I flipped over to WGN, and Bob Brenly as plain as day said he thought there should be two outs. After the commercial, Hawk said Brenly talked to him and they'd never seen something like this before in their careers where the umpires called two runners out on a play and everyone got to go back to their bases.

Enough with the anti-Hawk crusade. It's tired.

Did Brenly say that the umpires made something up in order to get back to bases loaded? I am not going to go nit for nat on this. Harrelson blew the call and got all hot and started spewing about how he thought the umpires were incompetent. WGN was at first confused - sure - but in no way did they go off on the umpires.

Brian26
06-24-2007, 05:04 PM
Did Brenly say that the umpires made something up in order to get back to bases loaded?

Hawk never once said the umpires "made something up" to get the bases loaded. Your anti-Hawk sentiment is clouding your judgment and your ability to remember what happened.

I am not going to go nit for nat on this. Harrelson blew the call

Harrelson's not the umpire. He's the announcer. I guess the umpires are completely exonnerated here because, of course, it always takes a 15-minute conference between all four umpires to figure out an easy play like this.

and got all hot and started spewing about how he thought the umpires were incompetent.

The umpires seemed completely incompetent on that play.

WGN was at first confused - sure - but in no way did they go off on the umpires.

Of course they didn't go off on the umpires, because their runners got to go back to the bases without being called out. They had no reason to be angry at the umpires. However, I sure as hell heard Brenly and Kasper questioning what the heck happened on the play, and Brenly, 10 minutes after the play, said he thought there should be two outs.

Yeah, more fodder for the anti-Hawk comedy crusade! Let's make fun of Hawk and insist he's going senile as a comedy bit to get ourselves over since he couldn't figure out the play immediately, even thought it took the umpires 15 minutes to do it and it took Kingxeres 30 minutes to google the rule.

KingXerxes
06-24-2007, 05:09 PM
Hawk never once said the umpires "made something up" to get the bases loaded. Your anti-Hawk sentiment is clouding your judgment and your ability to remember what happened.



Harrelson's not the umpire. He's the announcer. I guess the umpires are completely exonnerated here because, of course, it always takes a 15-minute conference between all four umpires to figure out an easy play like this.



The umpires seemed completely incompetent on that play.



Of course they didn't go off on the umpires, because their runners got to go back to the bases without being called out. They had no reason to be angry at the umpires. However, I sure as hell heard Brenly and Kasper questioning what the heck happened on the play, and Brenly, 10 minutes after the play, said he thought there should be two outs.

Yeah, more fodder for the anti-Hawk comedy crusade! Let's make fun of Hawk and insist he's going senile as a comedy bit to get ourselves over since he couldn't figure out the play immediately, even thought it took the umpires 15 minutes to do it and it took Kingxeres 30 minutes to google the rule.

First off - I didn't Google anything - somebody else pulled up the actual rule a little while ago, and secondly I'm not the one sitting back constantly spinning yarns about what a baseball expert I am - Harrelson is. It was an odd play, but I know enough to know that you can't interfere with runners and expect a play to be called dead - that makes no intuitive sense. If that were the rule, it would probably be to the defenses benefit to start tackling runners and killing a play.

Dibbs
06-24-2007, 05:09 PM
I needed this thread right now. That is one of the funniest posts ever!:rolling:

KingXerxes
06-24-2007, 05:13 PM
I needed this thread right now. That is one of the funniest posts ever!:rolling:

The sad part is - we're serious.:)

Brian26
06-24-2007, 05:14 PM
and secondly I'm not the one sitting back constantly spinning yarns about what a baseball expert I am - Harrelson is.

Because he's the announcer for a major league team and has been in baseball for 40+ years. That's what he gets paid to do.

If someone wants to pay you to broadcast games from your basement and tell stories about Pony league baseball, more power to you. I'm going to keep listening to Hawk.

It was an odd play, but I know enough to know that you can't interfere with runners and expect a play to be called dead - that makes no intuitive sense. If that were the rule, it would probably be to the defenses benefit to start tackling runners and killing a play.

Don't act like you're smarter than everyone else here. Clearly it wasn't as cut-and-dry as you make it to be since four MLB umpires took 15 minutes to discuss the play on the field and two MLB broadcast teams both stated, long after the play, that they thought there were two outs. After the fact, now that you've seen the replays of the obstruction call and seen the google results of the rulebook, it's easy to act like a know-it-all. Don't chastise Hawk for "getting the call wrong" as a comedy bit. You're way off-base.

KingXerxes
06-24-2007, 05:22 PM
Because he's the announcer for a major league team and has been in baseball for 40+ years. That's what he gets paid to do.

If someone wants to pay you to broadcast games from your basement and tell stories about Pony league baseball, more power to you. I'm going to keep listening to Hawk.



Don't act like you're smarter than everyone else here. Clearly it wasn't as cut-and-dry as you make it to be since four MLB umpires took 15 minutes to discuss the play on the field and two MLB broadcast teams both stated, long after the play, that they thought there were two outs. After the fact, now that you've seen the replays of the obstruction call and seen the google results of the rulebook, it's easy to act like a know-it-all. Don't chastise Hawk for "getting the call wrong" as a comedy bit. You're way off-base.

Hold on a second.

I readily admit that I had no idea what the umpires all got together for right after the play - I'm not sure anybody but the four umpires knew why they were talking to one another. That's not the point. They play was a weird one, and when they put everybody back to their bases I assumed there was some sort of malfeasance on the White Sox part. But instead of giving the true rule experts the benefit of the doubt - and by now most people agree that the right call was made - Harrelson was still going off about who goofed up, and how they shouldn't have let the play continue etc.

If one goes to the now closed "Rundowns - ***" thread, you'll also see that shortly after the ruling (and Harrelson's little fit), I wrote that I thought he was wrong.

I'm not trying to act smarter than everyone else on this board, I'm simply expressing an opinion about a strange play, and a self-proclaimed know-it-all who got it all wrong.

Brian26
06-24-2007, 05:37 PM
Hold on a second.

I readily admit that I had no idea what the umpires all got together for right after the play - I'm not sure anybody but the four umpires knew why they were talking to one another. That's not the point. They play was a weird one, and when they put everybody back to their bases I assumed there was some sort of malfeasance on the White Sox part. But instead of giving the true rule experts the benefit of the doubt - and by now most people agree that the right call was made - Harrelson was still going off about who goofed up, and how they shouldn't have let the play continue etc.

Harrelson wasn't given the replay of the obstruction call until after the umpire's conference was over, and he had every right to question the play along with the people at home. Only after the commercial break did things start to make sense when, for the FIRST time, they showed the replay of the obstruction call from the CF camera.

Make fun of Hawk for his silly catch phrases or his golf game, but don't try to rake him over the coals on this one. Plenty of umpires have made boneheaded calls over the years.

Gregory Pratt
06-24-2007, 05:38 PM
Just a point: Hawk said, "They made something up!" a bunch of times.

Watch the replay tonight.

I have nothing else to add about the argument.

SoxandtheCityTee
06-24-2007, 05:57 PM
I went over my recording and towards the end of the very long discussion with Ozzie, one of the umpires can clearly be lip-read saying to Ozzie "It's a ****ed-up situation" followed by a wry-to-apologetic smile. I doubt this crew themselves think that this was their finest hour, and unless Hawk was outright lying about the note sent to him by Garcia from the press box, some confusion amongst the boys in blue remains.

Hawk had no chance to get it right while he was still unaware that obstruction had been called, which took quite some time. And if (as seems apparent) he was unaware that the ball in NOT automatically dead after an obstruction is called, well it appears that he is far from alone.

For those watching the replay, it's the ump wearing No. 19, on the left of your screen, at 2:33 into the telecast (Comcast).

voodoochile
06-24-2007, 06:07 PM
Just wanted to add what I saw on WGN. Living in NC, I got to "enjoy" a game on TV and since I don't watch with the sound, it doesn't really matter who is announcing.

WGN had several camera angles immediately. They showed one from behind 3rd base that clearly showed the 3rd base umpire AND the 2nd base umpire making motions with their hands right when the collision occured.

I don't know why the Sox network wouldn't have access to those replays. It seems very redundant to have that many camera crews in the park. Seems one feed and two trucks would do the trick, but perhaps that is simply the money aspect and WGN can afford more cameras than the smaller station can.

Makes me wonder if the Sox team was intentionally not showing the other angles to feed the Sox fandome.

Personally, I don't have any issue with the umpires taking a long time to make the call provided they get it right and from what I can (unfortunately) tell, they did. I am sure a good part of their discussion was centered on making sure they made the right call, because there is obviously a HUGE difference between bases loaded, nobody out and man on second, 2 outs, more so since it was late in a 2-run game.

SoxandtheCityTee
06-24-2007, 06:23 PM
WGN had several camera angles immediately. They showed one from behind 3rd base that clearly showed the 3rd base umpire AND the 2nd base umpire making motions with their hands right when the collision occured.

I don't know why the Sox network wouldn't have access to those replays.

Me neither, especially since the umpires' discussion went on so long. If everyone had been able to see that right away on Comcast, this thread might not exist! :redneck

Vernam
06-24-2007, 06:31 PM
Makes me wonder if the Sox team was intentionally not showing the other angles to feed the Sox fandome.I had both broadcasts going on a dual-tuner Tivo (lord help me), and it sure seemed like the Comcast director was being selective to support Hawk's tirade. Brenly had it figured out pretty quickly, as you said, voodoo. At first I was kind of pissed at the Cub announcers for being so glib and at the umps for seeming to reward Pagan's terrible baserunning. I mean, all Uribe did was slow down Pagan's attempt to completely run Pie off of third -- it had zero effect on the outcome of the play. But rules is rules, I suppose, and the umps seem to have got it right. Since I kvetch about the NBA's selective enforcement of its rulebook, I can't complain when MLB umps play it straight.

And yes, Hawk's comments were embarrassing. Even once they realized why the call was made, he and DJ didn't seem to understand the difference between obstruction and interference.

In case anybody's wondering, I didn't watch the entire ****ing game twice through the magic of TV. :nuts:

Vernam

Daver
06-24-2007, 06:53 PM
Harrelson wasn't given the replay of the obstruction call until after the umpire's conference was over, and he had every right to question the play along with the people at home. Only after the commercial break did things start to make sense when, for the FIRST time, they showed the replay of the obstruction call from the CF camera.

Make fun of Hawk for his silly catch phrases or his golf game, but don't try to rake him over the coals on this one. Plenty of umpires have made boneheaded calls over the years.

If Hawk knew baseball as well as he claims, he would have not gone nuts in the booth and made himself look like a fool.

The fact is Ken Harrellson knows the game and it's rules about as well as my ass chews gum.

SoxandtheCityTee
06-24-2007, 07:00 PM
In case anybody's wondering, I didn't watch the entire ****ing game twice through the magic of TV. :nuts:

Vernam


:roflmao: I have the dual tuner too and would've had 'GN on the second one except I had it tuned to the soccer game.

Brian26
06-24-2007, 08:26 PM
I went over my recording and towards the end of the very long discussion with Ozzie, one of the umpires can clearly be lip-read saying to Ozzie "It's a ****ed-up situation" followed by a wry-to-apologetic smile. I doubt this crew themselves think that this was their finest hour, and unless Hawk was outright lying about the note sent to him by Garcia from the press box, some confusion amongst the boys in blue remains.

Just one other comment about the play as I let it digest while I'm doing other things around the house:

The umpire called obstruction but let the play continue...

Is it fair that the lead runner (on 3rd base) essentially got a free attempt to score at home on the play. I'm curious if the umpires would have made him go back to third if the throw was late and he beat AJ to the plate.

Brian26
06-24-2007, 08:31 PM
(b) If no play is being made on the obstructed runner, the play shall proceed until no further action is possible. The umpire shall then call “Time” and impose such penalties, if any, as in his judgment will nullify the act of obstruction.
Rule 7.06(b) Comment: Under 7.06(b) when the ball is not dead on obstruction and an obstructed runner advances beyond the base which, in the umpire’s judgment, he would have been awarded because of being obstructed, he does so at his own peril and may be tagged out. This is a judgment call.

This rule does not necessarily reference other runners in the play. If other runners (or, specifically, a leading runner) get called out on the play by trying to advance at their own risk, I'm not convinved the umpire should grant them their free base back.

Edit- How does an obstruction on the trail runner affect the lead runner in this case? I would think the umpire wouldn't rule that the lead runner was penalized by a trailing obstruction. I can't think of an example of that being the case.

Frontman
06-24-2007, 08:44 PM
Pay those guys no mind, King. It was worth the laugh.

Although, I don't think it will take 20 years for Hawk to get to that final line of: "Zubbbbbbbbbbb.......me meep....glooooooooooooock......yaddajetty.......ke ester.............whoooooyah!"

The Sox keep playing like they are, he'll sound like that by August.

Wait, maybe since its 2007, the 30th Anniversary of Star Wars, his crazy talk is trying to sound either like:

http://legolas.mdh.se/~frv95pen/pic/ewok6.jpg

or

http://www.funnyhub.com/pictures/img/chewbacca-pitching.jpg

Earlier in the season, he already did his Emperor Palpatine impression.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=87970

What next for Harrelson? Cheezy acting and DJ being replaced with a computer generated image?

KingXerxes
06-24-2007, 09:14 PM
Edit- How does an obstruction on the trail runner affect the lead runner in this case? I would think the umpire wouldn't rule that the lead runner was penalized by a trailing obstruction. I can't think of an example of that being the case.

If the umps judged that the interference stopped Pagan from seeing the fact that Pie was just pulling into third, they could rule that the interference gave rise to the entire baserunning fiasco. As I read the rule, they have the lateral judgement to rule whatever is necessary to cure the obstruction.

KingXerxes
06-24-2007, 09:20 PM
If Hawk knew baseball as well as he claims, he would have not gone nuts in the booth and made himself look like a fool.

The fact is Ken Harrellson knows the game and it's rules about as well as my ass chews gum.

Daver - and I'm sure this won't come as a surprise to anybody - I agree.

KingXerxes
06-24-2007, 09:30 PM
I'm guessing the "heavy fastball" thread is this one (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=24096).

I can understand why one might think jokes about senility fall flat (somewhat like I think jokes about the "short bus" aren't funny at all). So I'd recognize your opinion here (and on other things, Professor) as being worth more than two cents. Although I also thought PHG (as Xerxes confirmed) had it about right . . .

Wow - give me a second to explain myself here.

In no way was I trying to imply that Harrelson was, or is going, senile. That would be absoluetly nothing to joke about, and I wouldn't do it.

What I was trying to show was that his style has evolved into a weirder and weirder one over the years. First we had "Ken Harrelson - sidekick to Don Drysdale", that then evolved into golfer "Hawk", which then turned into Urban Cowboy Hawk (mostly as GM), and upon his return it was folksy know-it-all Hawk. Lately it's been "Green Acres Hawk" with all the golldarns and dadgumms. The point of the last part of the first post in this thread was too imagine how weird his style would be if one projected 20 years into the future. I tried, unsucessfully I guess, to underscore that point by having the word "keester" in each succeeding version.

Never, and I mean never, would I make a joke about a senile person or senility in general. Hell, I felt so sorry for Harry Caray at the end of his career because he was a shell of his former self, yet everybody would laugh at his malaprops and slip-ups. To me it wasn't funny at all, it was kind of sad.

Boondock Saint
06-24-2007, 09:43 PM
I miss the days when we'd spend our time celebrating victories instead of lunging for each others jugulars. :whiner:

Johnny Mostil
06-24-2007, 10:02 PM
Wow - give me a second to explain myself here.

In no way was I trying to imply that Harrelson was, or is going, senile. That would be absoluetly nothing to joke about, and I wouldn't do it.

What I was trying to show was that his style has evolved into a weirder and weirder one over the years. First we had "Ken Harrelson - sidekick to Don Drysdale", that then evolved into golfer "Hawk", which then turned into Urban Cowboy Hawk (mostly as GM), and upon his return it was folksy know-it-all Hawk. Lately it's been "Green Acres Hawk" with all the golldarns and dadgumms. The point of the last part of the first post in this thread was too imagine how weird his style would be if one projected 20 years into the future. I tried, unsucessfully I guess, to underscore that point by having the word "keester" in each succeeding version.

Never, and I mean never, would I make a joke about a senile person or senility in general. Hell, I felt so sorry for Harry Caray at the end of his career because he was a shell of his former self, yet everybody would laugh at his malaprops and slip-ups. To me it wasn't funny at all, it was kind of sad.

My apologies, King--not the first time I misinterpreted something, and I'm sorry to say it probably won't be the last.

Although I would like to know how you know how well Daver's ass chews gum:redneck . . .

SoxandtheCityTee
06-24-2007, 10:49 PM
Just one other comment about the play as I let it digest while I'm doing other things around the house:

The umpire called obstruction but let the play continue...

Is it fair that the lead runner (on 3rd base) essentially got a free attempt to score at home on the play. I'm curious if the umpires would have made him go back to third if the throw was late and he beat AJ to the plate.

That's what I don't understand. The second base ump clearly makes the signal that Uribe has tagged the runner out. Why, since he (the ump) knows about the obstruction call? Is it an advisory opinion, subject to being revoked? I'm trying to think whether there are other situations in which the ump makes a call knowing that it's hypothetical -- maybe provisional is a better word.

I get that the team guilty of obstruction should not benefit by it, but when you allow play to continue (which I agree the rule clearly contemplates) and you start calling people out here and there, it affects what the runners do and what the fielders do. It's not like a batted ball, which is going to land somewhere eventually; here, everyone on the field is acting in reliance on these outs being called in choosing when & where to throw, run or stop.

Not claiming greater knowledge here -- and I agree Hawk had a cow, I posted in the game thread -- but it's puzzling to me.

kba
06-24-2007, 11:09 PM
Hawk never once said the umpires "made something up" to get the bases loaded. Your anti-Hawk sentiment is clouding your judgment and your ability to remember what happened.


What Hawk said (Listen to it for yourself at 3:06 on the mlb.tv feed):

"They had to invent something out there in order to have the bases loaded nobody out in that situation. They had to create or invent something.“

Frontman
06-25-2007, 05:59 AM
Wow - give me a second to explain myself here.

In no way was I trying to imply that Harrelson was, or is going, senile. That would be absoluetly nothing to joke about, and I wouldn't do it.

What I was trying to show was that his style has evolved into a weirder and weirder one over the years. First we had "Ken Harrelson - sidekick to Don Drysdale", that then evolved into golfer "Hawk", which then turned into Urban Cowboy Hawk (mostly as GM), and upon his return it was folksy know-it-all Hawk. Lately it's been "Green Acres Hawk" with all the golldarns and dadgumms. The point of the last part of the first post in this thread was too imagine how weird his style would be if one projected 20 years into the future. I tried, unsucessfully I guess, to underscore that point by having the word "keester" in each succeeding version.

Never, and I mean never, would I make a joke about a senile person or senility in general. Hell, I felt so sorry for Harry Caray at the end of his career because he was a shell of his former self, yet everybody would laugh at his malaprops and slip-ups. To me it wasn't funny at all, it was kind of sad.

I didn't take it for you to be meaning he's gone senile. I thought it would be more of frustration if the team kept playing the way it is; as I've said gibberish after a game. Granted, I've got a four year old sitting right there, so I KNOW what I WANT to say, but just being a good Dad in editing myself.

No harm, no foul King. Let's hope we get some better baseball soon out of the Sox.

KingXerxes
06-25-2007, 03:12 PM
What Hawk said (Listen to it for yourself at 3:06 on the mlb.tv feed):

"They had to invent something out there in order to have the bases loaded nobody out in that situation. They had to create or invent something.“


Thank you.

KingXerxes
06-25-2007, 03:53 PM
That's what I don't understand. The second base ump clearly makes the signal that Uribe has tagged the runner out. Why, since he (the ump) knows about the obstruction call? Is it an advisory opinion, subject to being revoked? I'm trying to think whether there are other situations in which the ump makes a call knowing that it's hypothetical -- maybe provisional is a better word.

I get that the team guilty of obstruction should not benefit by it, but when you allow play to continue (which I agree the rule clearly contemplates) and you start calling people out here and there, it affects what the runners do and what the fielders do. It's not like a batted ball, which is going to land somewhere eventually; here, everyone on the field is acting in reliance on these outs being called in choosing when & where to throw, run or stop.

Not claiming greater knowledge here -- and I agree Hawk had a cow, I posted in the game thread -- but it's puzzling to me.

The only thing that makes sense is that in the umpires' judgement, the obstruction caused all the mayhem on the bases. The had to have figured that if Pagan doesn't run into Uribe, then he simply holds at 2nd (and DeRosa likewise would have held at first). That's how they restacked them after talking about it.

I saw a game once when a balk was called, but the ball was pitched. The batter hit a double and immediately the manager of the team in the field started yelling that a balk was called, and the double should not count. The rules basically give the batter a "free swing" as it were, and should the outcome of the play not be good, they can defer to accepting the balk. (I hope I'm remembering this right) Weird to be sure, but a rule nevertheless.

Not wanting to keep pounding on Harrelson, but that is the point of this thread, he didn't have a cow. He went about as far overboard as I've ever heard an announcer go toward officiating. "This is B.S.", "They must have made something up.", "I guarantee you that this protest will be upheld." Look I will be the first to admit that it was a confusing play, and I wouldn't expect Harrelson or anybody (other than an umpire) to know the rule on it - so Ken, next time you have a confusing play on the field, take a deep breath, ask somebody if they know what the conference is all about, and after the umpires have ruled - if you feel the need - grab a rule book and look it up.

:hawk

"Yessir - Ol' King Xerxes...........What a horse's keester.........In all my years in baseball.....Little League........Pony League.......D Ball.........C Ball........A Ball.........AAA Ball.........and the Major Leagues.......in all my years in this game.........I have never seen such a dadgummed doofus..............I guarantee you folks that he paid off Joe West in order to get that call reversed.............Mercy."

p.s. I was asked yesterday how exactly did Harrelson promote himself during the top of the 8th. Upon hearing it over and over again on the radio, it was during his little recitation of his baseball experience resume which I borrowed from liberally in the above parody.