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Boondock Saint
06-22-2007, 02:02 PM
Feel free to enlighten me on this one, but I just had a curious thought about the possibility of trading Bobby. It bothers me when I see a great closer on a bad team, whoever it is. It seems like such a waste. So instead of keeping Jenks to close out a game once a week whenever we manage to hold onto a lead, why not ship him out for something that can help us in the long-term? I know that closers generally come and go on a regular basis, so why not sell while his stock is still high?

Chicken Dinner
06-22-2007, 02:04 PM
I dont mind when Mariano Rivera is on a bad team. :D:

sox1970
06-22-2007, 02:04 PM
The thought has crossed my mind. I'm not against trading any veteran if the deal makes sense.

jenn2080
06-22-2007, 02:04 PM
:threadsucks

Steelrod
06-22-2007, 02:08 PM
In my mind, everyone is tradable if you feel you can improve your team.

Scottiehaswheels
06-22-2007, 02:08 PM
Depends on the return I guess... Right now I'd say it would have to net us 2 quality relievers... One established vet and another guy that could toss 100+ with the potential to be a closer...

Noneck
06-22-2007, 02:09 PM
Hes one of the few the Sox have that has value.

ilsox7
06-22-2007, 02:09 PM
A cheap, good closer who is under Sox control for several years and you want to trade him?

Boondock Saint
06-22-2007, 02:13 PM
A cheap, good closer who is under Sox control for several years and you want to trade him?

I didn't say I WANT to trade him. I like him, and I want him to stay. I want to know why he hasn't been mentioned along with the rest of the guys. From what I know, closers very rarely last in this league(see Brad Lidge).

ilsox7
06-22-2007, 02:16 PM
I didn't say I WANT to trade him. I like him, and I want him to stay. I want to know why he hasn't been mentioned along with the rest of the guys. From what I know, closers very rarely last in this league(see Brad Lidge).

He hasn't been mentioned b/c he is a cheap, good closer who is under the Sox control for years to come.

areilly
06-22-2007, 02:24 PM
It would have to be a stellar package considering what a steal he was/is, and how difficult it would be to replace him should this team ever have a 9th-inning lead to hold on to again.

Thomes Forearm
06-22-2007, 02:36 PM
He hasn't been mentioned b/c he is a cheap, good closer who is under the Sox control for years to come.

Couldn't that be used as a reason to trade him, too?

Closers and relievers come and go, and we've already seen that at his weight, Bobby's hips may not hold out for much longer. Throwing all that weight around, there's no way he'll be pitching into his 40's like Hoffman. Why not see what we can get for him?

Hell, in 2005 we went through Shingo the Golden Gong Boy and Son of Herman before we even thought to put Jenks in the closer role. Goes to show that closers are not a set-in-stone role. Can come out of the woodwork.

TDog
06-22-2007, 02:41 PM
In my mind, everyone is tradable if you feel you can improve your team.

I can understand how you can feel that way, and I don't disagree with you. I wouldn't say no to a trade unless I saw what the White Sox would get in return.

The idea that a player should be traded simply because the team will not win this year is flawed reasoning, though. It only serves to perpetuate a baseball caste system where the baseball haves exploit the baseball have nots.

How difficult can it be to find a closer? The Joe Borowskis are available, and they don't cost much. But if this season teaches Sox fans anything it should be that building a bullpen isn't as easy as people make it sound.

sox1970
06-22-2007, 02:42 PM
I've always thought Jenks will have a brief career. He'll have 3-4 good years, blow his arm out, have surgery, come back for 2-3 subpar years, and retire.

soxinem1
06-22-2007, 02:47 PM
Closers are probably the easiest of all position players to produce, so if someone was dumb enough (And this is saying nothing bad about Jenks) to offer the ranch for him, I wouldn't be opposed.

thomas35forever
06-22-2007, 02:48 PM
Let's not and say we did.

UserNameBlank
06-22-2007, 04:04 PM
It depends on what his worth is. I love Bobby's repetoire and ability to actually pitch as a closer, but if he can get you a young All-Star caliber position player, I say you have to do it.

credefan24
06-22-2007, 04:40 PM
I would say no to this trade.

It's hard to find a good closer. I mean, out of all the major league rosters how many good, solid closers are there? maybe 5, 6, even 7? Jenks has matured in the past 2 years, if we are rebuilding, he's a good cornerstone.

EndemicSox
06-22-2007, 04:54 PM
Only if the medical experts who work for the Sox forsee problems in the near future.

JB98
06-22-2007, 06:52 PM
A cheap, good closer who is under Sox control for several years and you want to trade him?

Trading Bobby = insanity.

WhiteSox5187
06-22-2007, 07:54 PM
No. No, no, no, no nonononononooooo!!!!!

Roland Heymond said that the hardest thing he had to do was trade Goose Gossage, trading Jenks would be a similar move (though we did get Richie Zisk out of that deal). Good closers are awfully hard to come by.

Tragg
06-22-2007, 09:53 PM
It's that the Sox have 5 or so solid pitchers that should allow this to be a quick rebuilding process.
Teams that will win more games than the Sox this year lack those key pieces and will never win anything until they get them. (and are behind the Sox despite winning more games this year).
The Sox have key pitchers and should keep them.

The MB trade will be incredibly key - hopefully Ken will be able to hit a home run with that deal.

MrT27
06-22-2007, 09:57 PM
If we got something good in return I would do it. I think closers are fairly easy to replace and with the future of this team looking bleak, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

ilsox7
06-22-2007, 09:59 PM
If we got something good in return I would do it. I think closers are fairly easy to replace and with the future of this team looking bleak, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I don't get how closers are easy to replace. In fact, the current team cannot find ONE guy to get 3 outs in the middle of the game, but they can seemingly go pick a closer off the closer tree at the local farm? I don't buy it.

TDog
06-22-2007, 11:08 PM
...Roland Heymond said that the hardest thing he had to do was trade Goose Gossage, trading Jenks would be a similar move (though we did get Richie Zisk out of that deal). Good closers are awfully hard to come by.

The Sox traded Rich Gossage and Terry Forster to the Pirates. Two flame-throwing young pitchers, one a righty and one a lefty, who could close games, although Gossage did a lot of starting in 1976. He even pitched a complete game win to beat the Indians in a game Dennis Eckersley started. The quality of pitching would be better today if more so-so starters (and pitchers who devolved into so-so starters) would become reliable relievers.

Joe Borowski and Ryan Dempster are good closers at the moment. They weren't hard to come by.

ilsox7
06-22-2007, 11:14 PM
Joe Borowski and Ryan Dempster are good closers at the moment. They weren't hard to come by.

Except for every 2 guys like that, there are 50 who end up sucking. It's not easy to be lucky and find an effective closer, hence when you have an effective one who is also dirt cheap, you hold onto him unless you are offered a king's ransom.

Noneck
06-22-2007, 11:15 PM
The way things are looking the Sox are going to need alot next year and have very few players that are worth anything. It all depends on what you can get for Jenks.

Tragg
06-23-2007, 12:36 AM
The Sox traded Rich Gossage and Terry Forster to the Pirates. Two flame-throwing young pitchers, one a righty and one a lefty, who could close games, although Gossage did a lot of starting in 1976. He even pitched a complete game win to beat the Indians in a game Dennis Eckersley started. The quality of pitching would be better today if more so-so starters (and pitchers who devolved into so-so starters) would become reliable relievers.

Joe Borowski and Ryan Dempster are good closers at the moment. They weren't hard to come by.
We traded those 2 young arms for 1 season of Zisk.
Key word for Borowski and Dempster, however, is "at the moment". There was a moment when MacDougal and Aardsma could pitch.

But hey if someone offers a lot more than what Jenks is worth, take it.

MRM
06-23-2007, 01:35 AM
IN A HEARTBEAT. His value will never, ever, be this high again.

MUsoxfan
06-23-2007, 01:49 AM
IN A HEARTBEAT. His value will never, ever, be this high again.

I disagree. He makes $340k. A pretty solid closer that makes that kinda cash and will be under Sox control for some time to come is worth more than anything we can get in return. What kind of players do you think contending teams would be willing to give up in order to attain him? Maybe a boatload of prospects. But prospects are only prospects. Jenks a is cheap, known commodity and is extremely useful for years to come

MrT27
06-23-2007, 02:10 AM
I don't get how closers are easy to replace. In fact, the current team cannot find ONE guy to get 3 outs in the middle of the game, but they can seemingly go pick a closer off the closer tree at the local farm? I don't buy it.
Case in point how we ended up getting Jenks, signing him off waivers from the Angels. With ort bullpen as it is now it looks really hard to find someone good but finding someone next year to get 3 outs in the 9th via trade, minors, free agency, waivers, etc. wouldn't be a tall task.

MRM
06-23-2007, 02:42 AM
I disagree. He makes $340k. A pretty solid closer that makes that kinda cash and will be under Sox control for some time to come is worth more than anything we can get in return. What kind of players do you think contending teams would be willing to give up in order to attain him? Maybe a boatload of prospects. But prospects are only prospects. Jenks a is cheap, known commodity and is extremely useful for years to come

I never said anything about giving him away, or that I wanted him gone.

I'd imagine teams in contending positions would give a boatload for him if they are having bullpen problems of any sort.

Let's face it...Jenks is a great story. Rags to World Series type story. He's also the same guy who posted a 4.00+ ERA last year. He's also the same guy whose velocity is way down this year. (for those who don't know how this works, that's not a good thing for a CLOSER who relies on his fastball)

Is he capable? Yes. Do I trust him to save a game tomorrow? If it's a save situation, sure. Is he gonna be a long term closer? NOT A FREAKIN CHANCE. He's way too unpredictable on the personal side.

I'd trade Bobby before I would Mark. BUT, only if I could get a ton of talent for him...and right now is your best chance to do just that.

"I love what you've done, fat boy, but see ya for 2 very good prospects."

And nobody even considers this...

Nellie_Fox
06-23-2007, 02:47 AM
Let's face it...Jenks is a great story. Rags to World Series type story. He's also the same guy who posted a 4.00+ ERA last year. He's also the same guy whose velocity is way down this year. (for those who don't know how this works, that's not a good thing for a CLOSER who relies on his fastball)Ah, but he's not a closer who "relies on his fastball." He has a devastating curveball to go with it.

Was it scarier when the fastball was 98-100? Sure. But mid-nineties, coupled with that curve, will make him effective for a long time.

MRM
06-23-2007, 02:51 AM
Ah, but he's not a closer who "relies on his fastball." He has a devastating curveball to go with it.

Was it scarier when the fastball was 98-100? Sure. But mid-nineties, coupled with that curve, will make him effective for a long time.

Fantastic. I don't disagree. He's worth a fortune in trade. Let's trade him now.
Please. NOW.

Nellie_Fox
06-23-2007, 02:55 AM
Fantastic. I don't disagree. He's worth a fortune in trade. Let's trade him now.
Please. NOW.But why? Why do you want him gone, and who would you have replace him? He's been about the only relatively dependable guy on the team this year.

MRM
06-23-2007, 02:58 AM
Ah, but he's not a closer who "relies on his fastball." He has a devastating curveball to go with it.

He has a very good curveball to go with it, when he can get it over.

Right now neither his fastball nor his curve is great.

"Saves" are the most worthless way to judge a relief pitcher ever created...ask Bobby Thigpen.

Trade Bobby while his value is high. Please. This man WILL NOT be an elite closer two years from now. Guarantee it.

Nellie_Fox
06-23-2007, 03:07 AM
He has a very good curveball to go with it, when he can get it over.

Right now neither his fastball nor his curve is great.

"Saves" are the most worthless way to judge a relief pitcher ever created...ask Bobby Thigpen.

Trade Bobby while his value is high. Please. This man WILL NOT be an elite closer two years from now. Guarantee it.Your opinion, not fact. How do we collect on the "guarantee" if you're wrong?

MRM
06-23-2007, 03:19 AM
But why? Why do you want him gone, and who would you have replace him? He's been about the only relatively dependable guy on the team this year.

I don't "want" him gone. I want to trade him while he can actually bring back value. Who cares who replaces him at this point?

Who was the Sox closer MOST of the '05 seaon? Seems to me Shingo Takatsu and Dustin Hermanson combined for 42 saves before Jenks ever showed up...

True story.

Do you think Shingo or Dustin should have been untradeable? We KNOW what has happened to THEM since '05.

MRM
06-23-2007, 03:20 AM
Your opinion, not fact. How do we collect on the "guarantee" if you're wrong?

How do I collect if you want to challenge my very easily identifiable assertation in inaccurate?

Are you suggesting a wager?

MRM
06-23-2007, 03:24 AM
Your opinion, not fact. How do we collect on the "guarantee" if you're wrong?

OH, and where did I claim it to be "fact"?

Despite popular belief among those who know me, I CAN'T see the future. Sadly that means I can't give you FACTS. I can tell you Bobby Jenks isn't a great, long term, closer, though.