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sox1970
06-22-2007, 02:50 PM
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20070622&content_id=2042249&vkey=pr_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Can't say he did a good job.

They really need to do better in that area.

Scottiehaswheels
06-22-2007, 02:51 PM
Thank god... Now do what I said about 2 months ago and hire someone away from the Braves/Dodgers/Twins... Preferably Twins, cuz anything that weakens them helps us.

Chicken Dinner
06-22-2007, 02:53 PM
Finally a head rolls. :?:

ilsox7
06-22-2007, 02:54 PM
This writing has been on the wall for 9 months now.

PaulDrake
06-22-2007, 03:03 PM
Hopefully this is just the beginning. I don't want to see the Sox enter a long dark tunnel, like the one the Tigers recently emerged from, and the Pirates are still in.

FedEx227
06-22-2007, 03:04 PM
Wait, I thought it was because we never had any high draft picks :tongue:

soxinem1
06-22-2007, 03:11 PM
This is a move that has been overdue for years. Nevertheless, a gutsy move for the organization.

Maybe the cubs will hire him as an usher now....

Larry Himes, Al Goldis, where are you?????

soxrme
06-22-2007, 03:15 PM
They should have done this long before the draft.

UserNameBlank
06-22-2007, 04:52 PM
And maybe we'll start to see the results of this move 3 years from now...

Not that the move was unnecessary, but I'd like the Sox to make more of a statement about the 2007 team.

oeo
06-22-2007, 06:34 PM
And maybe we'll start to see the results of this move 3 years from now...

Not that the move was unnecessary, but I'd like the Sox to make more of a statement about the 2007 team.

Have some patience, then. The only thing that will change if we wait to trade our free agents, is we will get better value. So why do you want them to 'make a statement' right now? In a month you 'make a statement', not now.

We have nothing to lose right now, there is plenty of time to get trades done.

California Sox
06-22-2007, 06:57 PM
Have some patience, then. The only thing that will change if we wait to trade our free agents, is we will get better value. So why do you want them to 'make a statement' right now? In a month you 'make a statement', not now.

We have nothing to lose right now, there is plenty of time to get trades done.

I'm not sure we'll get more value in a month. KW said one of the reasons he paid so much one time, I believe it was either for Everett or Freddie, is that he did it earlier in the trading season and was paying for the extra month he would have the player. I don't advocate starting early for starting early's sake, but if we could trade Dye for Erick Aybar and a prospect I'd do it now, in a month, in a tree, with a snee...

What we're running out there right now is not working and we're not getting any younger.

alohafri
06-22-2007, 06:58 PM
And maybe we'll start to see the results of this move 3 years from now...

Not that the move was unnecessary, but I'd like the Sox to make more of a statement about the 2007 team.

I hope more guys are gone after this weekend.

goon
06-22-2007, 07:02 PM
I'm not sure we'll get more value in a month. KW said one of the reasons he paid so much one time, I believe it was either for Everett or Freddie, is that he did it earlier in the trading season and was paying for the extra month he would have the player. I don't advocate starting early for starting early's sake, but if we could trade Dye for Erick Aybar and a prospect I'd do it now, in a month, in a tree, with a snee...


Yeah, but there is also a belief that has teams in the chase for a playoff spot are willing to give up good talent for a solid veteran, even if it is just for a couple of months.

Tragg
06-22-2007, 07:02 PM
Earlier this week Williams was talking like he wasn't going to give up on this season what with Erstad and Pods coming back. It was GM speak, but he didn't seem to be in a hurry. Not that he should be, but like the poster above said, the ealier your get them, the longer you have them and the higher the price you pay - at least sometimes - so it could be there early.

SoxxoS
06-22-2007, 07:16 PM
This is the best news since...well, there hasn't been much good news - Maybe the Erstad signing?

Either way, this is a fantastic move and long overdue.

Lip Man 1
06-22-2007, 07:34 PM
Story on White Sox. com about this quotes Kenny a lot.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070622&content_id=2042786&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

He basically said there's a difference of opinion on the amateur scouting side between what he wanted to do and what Schaefer was doing.

He said the Sox are going to do it his way now.

I hope he's immediately on the phone throwing some cash at some of the Minnesota people in the scouting department.

Lip

MrX
06-22-2007, 07:54 PM
KW said they are going to hire someone from within the organization according to the ESPN.com story.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2913198

Brian26
06-22-2007, 08:19 PM
I hope he's immediately on the phone throwing some cash at some of the Minnesota people in the scouting department.


Or look at the scouting departments of the Braves and Dodgers.

UserNameBlank
06-22-2007, 08:25 PM
I hope he's immediately on the phone throwing some cash at some of the Minnesota people in the scouting department.

God I hope not. We need stars, not Puntos and Tyners.

Since Brad Radke (1991), the only stars to come up through their organization have been Santana (traded for as a Rule-5), Hunter, Mauer (#1 pick overall), and Morneau. And that's about it.

Meanwhile the incompetent White Sox have only had Magglio Ordonez, Carlos Lee, Mike Cameron, Konerko who we traded for as a prospect, Garland, Buehrle, possibly Crede if he is ever healthy enough again to prove what kind of player he is...

In terms of meaningful players the Sox have been better than the Twins. Just because their guys know how to bunt doesn't mean we should have them scouting players for us. If we're free to raid scouts from anyone, raid Atlanta. They have a much better idea of what they are doing than Minnesota, as evidenced by the types of players they keep bringing up.

DrCrawdad
06-22-2007, 08:56 PM
KW said they are going to hire someone from within the organization according to the ESPN.com story.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2913198

Here's who I think will get (and probably already has) the job...

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/cws/photo/exe_mugs/wilder.jpg
Dave Wilder (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/cws/team/exe_bios/wilder_david.html)

MRM
06-22-2007, 09:39 PM
This is a move that has been overdue for years. Nevertheless, a gutsy move for the organization.

Maybe the cubs will hire him as an usher now....

Watching people revel in the firing of a man who has been with the organization for 35 YEARS is disgusting.

Lip Man 1
06-22-2007, 09:42 PM
User:

They must be doing something right. With little money they've kicked our asses since 2001 and won what four divisions?

I'd "settle" for that kind of production as I'm sure you would.

I have no issues with getting guys from Atlanta either but remember a lot of their sustained success came when they had one of the top payrolls in baseball usually in the 85- 95 million dollar range when that actually meant something.

Oh by the way, Cameron was drafted in 1991 that's rather a long time ago wouldn't you say? With that reasoning you could also use Jason Bere and the acquisition of Wilson Alvarez right?

My point is 'what have you done for me lately...'

Kenny isn't pissed about what's been going on for no reason right?

The results from the 'kids' brought up this season (granted in less then ideal situations) says a lot as does the lack of any help whatsoever in the minors for middle infielders and relief pitchers.

Crawdad:

If Kenny does promote from within that sets up an interesting question. How much was 'whomever gets the job' involved in scouting the way Schaffer was? Or was that person offering different recommendations that were ignored.

Personally I'd go outside the organization fresh eyes, fresh ideas... but that's just me.

MRM:

I don't think anyone is 'reveling' in Schaffer's firing but this is professional baseball...results matter...now...not what an individual did five, ten, twenty years ago. JR offered him a position in the organization according to the story at White Sox.com and he said 'no.' What more can you do? Schaffer also said in the story, "I'm a big boy...I'll be fine."

Lip

PaleHoseGeorge
06-22-2007, 09:45 PM
Watching people revel in the firing of a man who has been with the organization for 35 YEARS is disgusting.

You should check out the thread about Erstad getting hurt. Some of them are practically peeing their pants with glee.

Lots and lots of pathetic behavior from alleged human beings around here these days...

UserNameBlank
06-22-2007, 10:09 PM
Oh by the way, Cameron was drafted in 1991 that's rather a long time ago wouldn't you say? With that reasoning you could also use Jason Bere and the acquisition of Wilson Alvarez right?

Lip
So was Radke, which was my point. We haven't developed a whole lot of impact players in the last 16 years but we've done a much better job at that than Minnesota has. Yes, Minny has won by putting together marginal players that fit their ballpark, but they haven't been doing jack in the playoffs have they? I hate Minnesota and their philosophy is only good enough to lose on the biggest of stages, much like Oakland. They don't spend the money and they don't trade their prospects when necessary in order to make their team better. If the Sox should be emulating anyone at all in the Central division it should be Detroit, not Minnesota.

ATL, true, did have a ton of success when they had their larger payrolls (which mainly went toward a dominant starting rotation) but over the last couple of years they have produced LaRoche, Franceour, Saltalamacchia, and McCann who are all going to be All-Star caliber impact players. Add that to their past success in producing Marcus Giles, Chipper Jones, Jermaine Dye, Andruw Jones, etc. They are solid all the time in the drafting and player development areas.

SoxxoS
06-22-2007, 10:18 PM
Watching people revel in the firing of a man who has been with the organization for 35 YEARS is disgusting.

After you get past a certain number of years, whats the difference.

Guys get fired everyday from their jobs - It's part of any business. The same thing happened with Yahoo yesterday when Semel resigned and people celebrated.

Did anyone cry after Ron Schuler got fired? Didnt think so.

SaltyPretzel
06-22-2007, 10:23 PM
Watching people revel in the firing of a man who has been with the organization for 35 YEARS is disgusting.

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpgfile:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.jpgfile:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-2.jpgfile:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-3.jpgfile:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-4.jpg
file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-5.jpgBob Pulford agrees with you 100%.

MRM
06-22-2007, 11:56 PM
Did anyone cry after Ron Schuler got fired? Didnt think so.

Does anyone think this fixes the Sox? Didn't think so.

So why all the revelry about a long time SOX getting the axe? Imagine the party if Harold Baines were to be fired....

ilsox7
06-23-2007, 12:01 AM
Does anyone think this fixes the Sox? Didn't think so.

So why all the revelry about a long time SOX getting the axe? Imagine the party if Harold Baines were to be fired....

There is a pretty big consensus that the Sox don't do the whole amateur scouting thing well. Righting that ship is a MAJOR move, if it is in fact righted. You feel for a guy who loses his job, but you also have some excitement about the possibility of a good amateur scouting group in the future.

In fact, this move or change in philosophy could very well be the fix the Sox are looking for. It obviously won't be a short-term fix, but in the long term, it could be bigger than any single signing or trade KW could make.

MRM
06-23-2007, 12:03 AM
MRM:

I don't think anyone is 'reveling' in Schaffer's firing but this is professional baseball...results matter...now...not what an individual did five, ten, twenty years ago. JR offered him a position in the organization according to the story at White Sox.com and he said 'no.' What more can you do? Schaffer also said in the story, "I'm a big boy...I'll be fine."Lip

People most certainly were reveling early in the thread. "It's about time" is one quote I recall vividly.

He wasn't involved in results NOW, so what is your point, there?

I'm not the least bit worried about Duane, and he probably should have been fired if Jerry pulled the trigger. That is NOT my point in the least.

My point is the man has been around for 35 YEARS and people are dancing on his grave without even knowing what it is he DID. He deserves alot more respect than that from "fans" who mostly don't have a freakin clue who the man was or what he did for the organization. THAT is my point.

ilsox7
06-23-2007, 12:04 AM
My point is the man has been around for 35 YEARS and people are dancing on his grave without even knowing what it is he DID. He deserves alot more respect than that from "fans" who mostly don't have a freakin clue who the man was or what he did for the organization. THAT is my point.

Who doesn't know what he did?

MRM
06-23-2007, 12:07 AM
There is a pretty big consensus that the Sox don't do the whole amateur scouting thing well. Righting that ship is a MAJOR move, if it is in fact righted. You feel for a guy who loses his job, but you also have some excitement about the possibility of a good amateur scouting group in the future.

In fact, this move or change in philosophy could very well be the fix the Sox are looking for. It obviously won't be a short-term fix, but in the long term, it could be bigger than any single signing or trade KW could make.

This is absolutely fair and I have no problem with it. I have no problem with him getting fired, either. My problem rests solely with the immediate response to the firing.

Viva Medias B's
06-23-2007, 12:10 AM
It's a shame to see Duane Shaffer go because he has given virtually his entire adult life to the White Sox organization. That is not necessarily a criticism of KW's decision to let him go, but Duane has done so much for the White Sox franchise that it would be a crime to praise the move as "Finally, a head rolls!!!"

MRM
06-23-2007, 12:13 AM
Who doesn't know what he did?

ChickenDinner: "Finally a head rolls"

Soxinem: "maybe the Cubs will hire him as an usher now"

Is this the way you talk about an outgoing 35 YEAR employee?

MRM
06-23-2007, 12:14 AM
It's a shame to see Duane Shaffer go because he has given virtually his entire adult life to the White Sox organization. That is not necessarily a criticism of KW's decision to let him go, but Duane has done so much for the White Sox franchise that it would be a crime to praise the move as "Finally, a head rolls!!!"

Thank you. This is exactly my point.

Viva Medias B's
06-23-2007, 12:14 AM
ChickenDinner: "Finally a head rolls"

Soxinem: "maybe the Cubs will hire him as an usher now"

Is this the way you talk about an outgoing 35 YEAR employee?

I wonder if Soxinem and ChickenDinner even know who Duane Shaffer was before today's move. I bet not.

ilsox7
06-23-2007, 12:16 AM
ChickenDinner: "Finally a head rolls"

Soxinem: "maybe the Cubs will hire him as an usher now"

Is this the way you talk about an outgoing 35 YEAR employee?

Well, those are either ignorant statements or said in jest. I took them to be the latter.

RadioheadRocks
06-23-2007, 12:16 AM
ChickenDinner: "Finally a head rolls"

Soxinem: "maybe the Cubs will hire him as an usher now"

Is this the way you talk about an outgoing 35 YEAR employee?

Point taken, but then again there are some long time employees that I work with that I think should have been shown the door ages ago, and let's just say that I wouldn't have anything complimentary to say about those folks either.

MRM
06-23-2007, 12:17 AM
I wonder if Soxinem and ChickenDinner even know who Duane Shaffer was before today's move. I bet not.

I'd bet my house they didn't. It's that they didn't bother to find out before those outlandish comments that burns my rear.

MRM
06-23-2007, 12:18 AM
Well, those are either ignorant statements or said in jest. I took them to be the latter.

You find things to be said in jest in THIS forum of late?

ilsox7
06-23-2007, 12:19 AM
You find things to be said in jest in THIS forum of late?

Well, I viewed the one comment to mean, "This won't help the 2007 team one bit and I am not happy about that."

The comment about the usher thing, OK, I'll give you that. It really made no sense and was out of line.

EDIT: And I only venture into the Sox Clubhouse once every week or so. It's really not worth it these days.

MRM
06-23-2007, 12:24 AM
Point taken, but then again there are some long time employees that I work with that I think should have been shown the door ages ago, and let's just say that I wouldn't have anything complimentary to say about those folks either.

Of course you wouldn't. But unless you were their direct supervisor you'd not be in a PLACE to say anything about them, either. What someone you work with does or doesn't do isn't neccessarily obvious to you.

RadioheadRocks
06-23-2007, 12:30 AM
Of course you wouldn't. But unless you were their direct supervisor you'd not be in a PLACE to say anything about them, either. What someone you work with does or doesn't do isn't neccessarily obvious to you.


Don't be so sure about that... you really know nothing about my workplace and I could tell you stories about game players, manipulators, abusers, and don't even get me started on ***A. If most of these folks channeled all that effort away from "beating the system" and into doing their damn job...

Anyway not meaning to get the thread off track...

michned
06-23-2007, 12:50 AM
This move obviously should be taken to mean upper management is not happy with the quality of players brought into the organization, but what about the development of the players once they're in the organization? This move doesn't seem to address that but that seems to be what everyone is talking about these days - guys come up and they can't bunt, run bases, etc.

MRM
06-23-2007, 01:12 AM
Don't be so sure about that... you really know nothing about my workplace and I could tell you stories about game players, manipulators, abusers, and don't even get me started on ***A. If most of these folks channeled all that effort away from "beating the system" and into doing their damn job...

Anyway not meaning to get the thread off track...

There isn't an hourly employee (and most salaried employees) out there who doesn't have similar stories, including those you're are about. I don't have to know about "your" workplace because it's not anywhere near as unique as YOU think it is.

IF you feel the need to prove me wrong, do it in private. I'll be happy to listen. Just message me.

As far as the topic goes, I don't think the man made it 35 YEARS by cutting corners...

MRM
06-23-2007, 01:15 AM
This move obviously should be taken to mean

Why would this move be taken to mean ANYTHING? Why does it have to? And why is it "obvious"?

Someone got fired. Period. WE have no clue why, nor should we insinuate anything from it with THIS team which is extremely loyal to it's employees.

ilsox7
06-23-2007, 01:17 AM
Why would this move be taken to mean ANYTHING? Why does it have to? And why is it "obvious"?

Someone got fired. Period. WE have no clue why, nor should we insinuate anything from it with THIS team which is extremely loyal to it's employees.

I think it's obvious b/c KW made a point to say last fall that things were going to change with how they scout amateurs. He then got personally involved in the process. Then he fired the man in charge of it. KW obviously was not pleased with Shaffer's production.

MRM
06-23-2007, 01:43 AM
I think it's obvious b/c KW made a point to say last fall that things were going to change with how they scout amateurs.

And? That could easily mean changing scouts, changing the way scouts are expected to work, or changing the scouts themselves. Why would it be "obvious" he was going to change the scouting director, and if it WAS so obvious, why didn't he do it then?

ilsox7
06-23-2007, 01:49 AM
And? That could easily mean changing scouts, changing the way scouts are expected to work, or changing the scouts themselves. Why would it be "obvious" he was going to change the scouting director, and if it WAS so obvious, why didn't he do it then?

You cut-off half of my statement. When viewed as a totality of events, it was obvious KW was not pleased with amateur scouting. Shaffer is the man in charge of amateur scouting, so it is no surprise that he takes the fall. KW's actions last fall put everyone on notice that things better change. In his eyes, they obviously did not, b/c today, Shaffer was fired.

MRM
06-23-2007, 02:06 AM
You cut-off half of my statement. When viewed as a totality of events, it was obvious KW was not pleased with amateur scouting. Shaffer is the man in charge of amateur scouting, so it is no surprise that he takes the fall. KW's actions last fall put everyone on notice that things better change. In his eyes, they obviously did not, b/c today, Shaffer was fired.

Fantastic. What exactly do you think would change in SCOUTING from the beginning of the year (when he made that pronouncement) to now? Did he not like the draft, or something? Maybe he's mad that he can't get legit prospects thrown at him for an MB trade?

Thing is WE have no idea why the man was fired. It's not "obviously" anything. THAT is my point.

California Sox
06-23-2007, 02:57 AM
Let me first say "Thank you" to Duane Shaffer for 35 years. He brought in a lot of talent to the Sox over the years and some of that talent like Buerhle and Crede helped win a World Championship.

Now, as I've argued over at the minor league board, I think KW disagrees on philosophy and wants more toolsy guys, probably high school guys as well. Probably has little to do with this year's draft.

The reason to fire Shaffer now and not the winter? The amateur scouting season begins now. For Lauman or Wilder to be held responsible for the 2008 draft, best turn the reins over at the beginning of the season.

MRM
06-23-2007, 03:07 AM
The reason to fire Shaffer now and not the winter? The amateur scouting season begins now.

Sorry, the amateur scouting season ended a while ago. A LONG while ago. It doesn't begin again for months...

Most High Schools held commencement ceremonies AT LEAST a month ago. There isn't a Jr. High team even working out. Colleges are finishing the CWS which is of little use to an amateur scout. This is the WINTER of scouting. There is no amateur TO scout.

pmck003
06-23-2007, 06:42 AM
Probably a good move regarding we are now in the 33 century, but he was good during his time.

MisterB
06-23-2007, 07:18 AM
Sorry, the amateur scouting season ended a while ago. A LONG while ago. It doesn't begin again for months...

Most High Schools held commencement ceremonies AT LEAST a month ago. There isn't a Jr. High team even working out. Colleges are finishing the CWS which is of little use to an amateur scout. This is the WINTER of scouting. There is no amateur TO scout.

The collegiate summer leagues started up a couple of weeks ago.

Viva Medias B's
06-23-2007, 08:25 AM
The collegiate summer leagues started up a couple of weeks ago.

And summer high school ball is underway as well.

CLR01
06-23-2007, 09:58 AM
The collegiate summer leagues started up a couple of weeks ago.

And summer high school ball is underway as well.


People...people... There is nothing to scout, amateur season ending a long time ago, MRM already told you this. Why do you purposely choose to ignore him?


Shaffer was probably fired because he was planning on retiring soon and JR was too cheap to buy him a gold watch or maybe KW was worried he would look bad in comparison.

jabrch
06-23-2007, 11:21 AM
Thanks for everything DS...

Lip Man 1
06-23-2007, 01:12 PM
This story explains a little more of the 'reasoning' behind it. Maybe I'm reading things into it but I could imagine Kenny being very 'tight lipped' when he made these comments with his jaw clinched.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/440198,CST-SPT-soxnt23.article

Lip

cbotnyse
06-23-2007, 01:15 PM
35 years with the organization? thats a long time.

California Sox
06-23-2007, 02:27 PM
Sorry, the amateur scouting season ended a while ago. A LONG while ago. It doesn't begin again for months...

Most High Schools held commencement ceremonies AT LEAST a month ago. There isn't a Jr. High team even working out. Colleges are finishing the CWS which is of little use to an amateur scout. This is the WINTER of scouting. There is no amateur TO scout.

Here is a list of collegiate wooden bat leagues courtesy of Wikipedia:


Central Illinois Collegiate League (http://www.ciclbaseball.com/)
Great Lakes Summer Collegiate League (http://www.greatlakesleague.org/)
New York Collegiate Baseball League (http://www.nycbl.com/)
Cape Cod Baseball League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Cod_Baseball_League)
Atlantic Collegiate Baseball League (http://www.acbl-online.com/)
Southern Collegiate Baseball League (http://www.scbl.org/viewpage.asp?key=9035)
Valley Baseball League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valley_Baseball_League)
Florida Collegiate Summer League (http://www.floridaleague.com/)
Northwoods League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwoods_League)
Texas Collegiate League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Collegiate_League)
Mountain Collegiate Baseball League (http://www.mcbl.net/pages/1/index.htm)Here's a link to a BA article on the first showcase of 2008:
http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/highschool/features/264296.html

It includes the following quote:

"This is the first day of 2008," a scout said. "Time to start all over again."

I'm sure there are other summer leagues for rising high school seniors as well as traveling teams, junior national teams, all-star events etc. I just didn't have the energy to link to them all.

SoxxoS
06-23-2007, 02:43 PM
Shaffer was probably fired because he was planning on retiring soon and JR was too cheap to buy him a gold watch or maybe KW was worried he would look bad in comparison.

That, or the plethora of bad picks he has made in his tenure.

Sorry, nice guy or not, the guy didn't do a good job at his current title. I dont care if he has been with the Sox for 70 years.

soxfanreggie
06-23-2007, 02:59 PM
I'm sure he has been compensated quite well for his job. However, I have been disappointed the last 4-6 years with the successes of our high draft picks. No matter what the reason, he's high up on the list of responsibility.

Soxfest
06-23-2007, 05:05 PM
I love how KW said" He is tired of the safe pick" yet the Sox will not draft a high talent Boras client for example just like in this years draft. Other teams draft Steak, Sox draft Spam:angry:

ilsox7
06-23-2007, 05:06 PM
I love how KW said" He is tired of the safe pick" yet the Sox will not draft a high talent Boras client for example just like in this years draft. Other teams draft Steak, Sox draft Spam:angry:

KW means that he is tired of drafting safe "talent level," which has nothing to do with signability.

Daver
06-23-2007, 08:28 PM
Firing Duane will have zero effect on the minor league system as a whole unless they change the philosophy of how they handle the players down there. It will be interesting to see if they actually do it, I have my doubts.

Lip Man 1
06-23-2007, 09:27 PM
Daver can you expound on that last post a little?

Lip

Daver
06-23-2007, 09:53 PM
Daver can you expound on that last post a little?

Lip

Expound on what?

The organizations philosophy on advancing players is flawed, and it has proven to be flawed. Positional players advance based on their ability at the plate, and nothing else. It doesn't matter if they can't field their position, that is the problem of the next coach up the line.

The same goes for pitchers, if they are getting outs at one level, move them up, even if the pitching coaches they are working with have not finished instructing them on technique, it is left to the next coach up the line to figure it out.

This isn't rocket surgery, let the instructors in the minor leagues, especially the lower minors, have a huge say in when a player is ready to take the next step, don't do it based on a month's worth of performance.

The flaws in scouting can only be addressed in one way, spend more on scouting, but to do that costs you payroll for your major league club.

SoxxoS
06-23-2007, 11:37 PM
Expound on what?

The organizations philosophy on advancing players is flawed, and it has proven to be flawed. Positional players advance based on their ability at the plate, and nothing else. It doesn't matter if they can't field their position, that is the problem of the next coach up the line.

The same goes for pitchers, if they are getting outs at one level, move them up, even if the pitching coaches they are working with have not finished instructing them on technique, it is left to the next coach up the line to figure it out.

This isn't rocket surgery, let the instructors in the minor leagues, especially the lower minors, have a huge say in when a player is ready to take the next step, don't do it based on a month's worth of performance.

The flaws in scouting can only be addressed in one way, spend more on scouting, but to do that costs you payroll for your major league club.

That may be well and true, but you can't polish a turd and make a diamond.

I am not saying ALL the draft picks are "turds" but you can only "ride your mount" or deal with the talent you have at hand.

Daver
06-23-2007, 11:49 PM
That may be well and true, but you can't polish a turd and make a diamond.

I am not saying ALL the draft picks are "turds" but you can only "ride your mount" or deal with the talent you have at hand.


You can polish a turd as much as you want, the fact is it will never shine.

The rest of your post has little bearing on what I posted.

SoxxoS
06-24-2007, 10:20 AM
You can polish a turd as much as you want, the fact is it will never shine.

The rest of your post has little bearing on what I posted.

Point is, the Sox need to draft better.

Scottiehaswheels
06-24-2007, 10:22 AM
Latest I heard is we're looking at someone in the Cinci org to take the spot? What the hell? Cinci has sucked for a long time and how many good draft choices have they made?

sox1970
06-24-2007, 12:08 PM
Doug Laumann hired to replace Duane Shaffer.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20070624&content_id=2046303&vkey=pr_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Hitmen77
06-25-2007, 09:13 PM
I love how KW said" He is tired of the safe pick" yet the Sox will not draft a high talent Boras client for example just like in this years draft. Other teams draft Steak, Sox draft Spam:angry:

Can someone name one Boras client that passed over in a draft that is now a quality MLB player? I'm not saying I know such a player doesn't exist - it's just that I haven't heard any specific names mentioned.

Yes, this could hamper us in the future, but I don't think it's to blame for the current farm situation.

Hitmen77
06-25-2007, 09:15 PM
Firing Duane will have zero effect on the minor league system as a whole unless they change the philosophy of how they handle the players down there. It will be interesting to see if they actually do it, I have my doubts.

I agree. Maybe Duane needed to go, but it isn't just the draft....there's something about this organization in recent years that can't seem to process promising players beyond AAA.