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View Full Version : Grinderstad Activated! No, wait....he's hurt again.


Scottiehaswheels
06-22-2007, 11:03 AM
We can now resume winning!

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20070622&content_id=2042195&vkey=pr_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

itsnotrequired
06-22-2007, 11:09 AM
:supernana:
:supernana:
:supernana:
:supernana:
:supernana:
:supernana:
:supernana:
:supernana:
:supernana:
:supernana:

Sad
06-22-2007, 11:12 AM
Anything has got to help at this point... Sheesh :anon:

sox1970
06-22-2007, 11:12 AM
Whoopie

itsnotrequired
06-22-2007, 11:12 AM
Anything has got to help at this point... Sheesh :anon:

Whoopie

*CLR01 draws sword*

Chicago
06-22-2007, 11:15 AM
Detach the stone of shame. Attach the stone of triumph
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/xBOOSTx/stonecutters1.jpg

russ99
06-22-2007, 11:23 AM
What about Pods.... He's ready. :angry::angry:

Here's his line in Charlotte last night: 3-4, 2 runs scored, 2 RBIs, 1 HR, current BA: .280.

jenn2080
06-22-2007, 11:24 AM
Yes. That means we can score maybe one more run. We can probably go 10 for our next 30 games

chisoxfanatic
06-22-2007, 11:24 AM
Does this mean that TONY will be back too?!

Grrrrrrrreat! :bandance:

HotelWhiteSox
06-22-2007, 11:43 AM
Starting in center today

1917
06-22-2007, 12:02 PM
How about Thome?

CHISOXFAN13
06-22-2007, 12:08 PM
What about Pods.... He's ready. :angry::angry:

Here's his line in Charlotte last night: 3-4, 2 runs scored, 2 RBIs, 1 HR, current BA: .280.

I agree. Enough's enough. He's been playing every day and producing. Activate him ASAP.

esbrechtel
06-22-2007, 12:09 PM
What about Pods.... He's ready. :angry::angry:

Here's his line in Charlotte last night: 3-4, 2 runs scored, 2 RBIs, 1 HR, current BA: .280.
I read a stat somewhere that the sox are like 25 games over .500 with pods in the lineup over the last three seasons....I would really like to see him playing

spiffie
06-22-2007, 12:17 PM
I read a stat somewhere that the sox are like 25 games over .500 with pods in the lineup over the last three seasons....I would really like to see him playing
Don't you know Podsednik and Erstad are what is holding this team back? If we only got rid of them entirely their evil would cease to infect the team and then everything would be wonderful. I mean, ever since the day Erstad went and shanked Anderson in the locker room, making Brian need that kidney transplant, the team has never been the same since.

JB98
06-22-2007, 12:25 PM
I read a stat somewhere that the sox are like 25 games over .500 with pods in the lineup over the last three seasons....I would really like to see him playing

You mean you haven't enjoyed watching Rob Mackowiak, Jerry Owens and Andy Gonzalez bat leadoff? Blasphemy!!!!

CLR01
06-22-2007, 12:26 PM
In stores today!!!!!!!

http://whitesoxinteractive.com/chisox716/album.jpg

jenn2080
06-22-2007, 12:30 PM
Don't you know Podsednik and Erstad are what is holding this team back? If we only got rid of them entirely their evil would cease to infect the team and then everything would be wonderful. I mean, ever since the day Erstad went and shanked Anderson in the locker room, making Brian need that kidney transplant, the team has never been the same since.


The curse of Erstad and Pods.

CLR01
06-22-2007, 12:41 PM
Don't you know Podsednik and Erstad are what is holding this team back? If we only got rid of them entirely their evil would cease to infect the team and then everything would be wonderful. I mean, ever since the day Erstad went and shanked Anderson in the locker room, making Brian need that kidney transplant, the team has never been the same since.


No ****. I mean sure the Sox are last in just about every offensive category there is and the bullpen would struggle in a t-ball game but we haven't had Pods since April and Ersty all month. Surely Podsednik will fix everything, the bullpen will get it together and the offense will probably become the most dominant in the league. The team is just sad without him.:(:

thecip
06-22-2007, 12:44 PM
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f364/thecip/grinder.jpg
:bandance::bandance:

Scottiehaswheels
06-22-2007, 12:47 PM
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f364/thecip/grinder.jpg
:bandance::bandance:ok that has to be a new icon....

RallyBowl
06-22-2007, 12:51 PM
What I thought Pods was coming up today too.:angry:

Other than no Scotty, this thread is sweet!

"The Grinder" is gonna be inducted into the cub- killer HOF today I think. :gulp:

JorgeFabregas
06-22-2007, 01:05 PM
I read a stat somewhere that the sox are like 25 games over .500 with pods in the lineup over the last three seasons....I would really like to see him playing
Well, considering they are 44 games above .500 over the last three seasons that doesn't seem to be a very meaningful statistic. That would make them 25 games over with him and 19 over without him.

He's played in 278 games in the last three seasons. The White Sox have played 392. If they're 26 over with him then they'd be
152-126 = .547 winning pct.
If they're 18 over with out him they'd be
66-48=.579 winning pct.

So their winning percentage without him is actually a little better. That is, assuming that they are roughly 25 games over with him in the lineup. Not enough of a disparity to draw any real conclusions.

I'd like to see Pods in there, if healthy, simply because I think he's better than our other options. Though giving Sweeney another shot wouldn't be a terrible idea.

russ99
06-22-2007, 02:10 PM
Erstad starting in CF today and leading off! :D:


Also, the pregame show said that Kenny made his minor league conference calls today and Pods is at 95% and will be called up on Monday.

:bandance::bandance::bandance:

soxinem1
06-22-2007, 02:20 PM
Hopefully he will stay healthy enough and produce enough to yield something in a trade during the next two months.

getonbckthr
06-22-2007, 02:23 PM
In stores today!!!!!!!

http://whitesoxinteractive.com/chisox716/album.jpg
Possibly greatest post in WSI history.

HotelWhiteSox
06-22-2007, 03:19 PM
Already pulled in the 1st (after a great catch). Yes, him with no rehab start over Pods was brilliant

LITTLE NELL
06-22-2007, 03:20 PM
He is hurt again.

lukeman89
06-22-2007, 03:22 PM
at least he was able to help us

nevr say dye sox
06-22-2007, 03:23 PM
does anybody know what happened?

redsand22
06-22-2007, 03:24 PM
Wow... did he get hurt playing catch? walking?

getonbckthr
06-22-2007, 03:25 PM
I said it when we signed him and I will say it again now waste of time and money was Erstad.

LITTLE NELL
06-22-2007, 03:26 PM
He dove for a ball in the top of the 1st and may have reinjured the ankle.

Thome_Fan
06-22-2007, 03:26 PM
from what i gathered, it sounds like he felt all right getting up from that (awesome) catch, but then he either started to feel it walking in or the staff just wanted to play it safe.

i don't think i want to see all of this game... i'm scared

LITTLE NELL
06-22-2007, 03:27 PM
This is just not our year.

sox1970
06-22-2007, 03:28 PM
Can we just end the Darin Erstad experiment, please? He's incapable of staying healthy, and the team sucks. Release him, and play the kids.

southwstchi4life
06-22-2007, 03:30 PM
Ughhhh what a disapointment

LITTLE NELL
06-22-2007, 03:30 PM
Its a shame because the guy is a gamer.

santo=dorf
06-22-2007, 03:30 PM
This is just not our year.
Sounds like the same thing Cub fans say when wood and Prior make their annual DL trip.

Injury ridden players miss a lot of time due to injuries. Who knew?

Just DFA him already. Maybe some team will cough up a "D" prospect or some journeyman with a funny name.

CLR01
06-22-2007, 03:38 PM
This sort of thing is to be expected when you give 618% every time you touch the field. The body can't handle that kind of intensity. Grind on, good sir, grind on.


from what i gathered, it sounds like he felt all right getting up from that (awesome) catch, but then he either started to feel it walking in or the staff just wanted to play it safe.

i don't think i want to see all of this game... i'm scared

Playing it safe? Are they going to pull him in the first inning of every game?

At least the excuse makers have this one back. http://whitesoxinteractive.com//chisox716/shrug.gif

nevr say dye sox
06-22-2007, 03:41 PM
just another KW fools gold pick up's. Well if he works out, great we got him for cheap. Or if he doesn't still a bargin, beacuase look what we would have to pay to have a real center fielder.

UserNameBlank
06-22-2007, 03:48 PM
In stores today!!!!!!!

http://whitesoxinteractive.com/chisox716/album.jpg

Someone once told me that if you play the record backwards you can hear Brian Anderson complaining about losing the CF job.

Martinigirl
06-22-2007, 03:50 PM
Can we just end the Darin Erstad experiment, please? He's incapable of staying healthy, and the team sucks. Release him, and play the kids.


I found it interesting that Ozzie said in the Sun Times today that he knew what he could get out of Erstad, but not out of Pods because Pods was injury prone. Pods had an entire year in 2005 without an injury, and Erstad didn't last 3 months for us before landing on the DL.

CLR01
06-22-2007, 03:51 PM
Someone once told me that if you play the record backwards you can hear Brian Anderson complaining about losing the CF job.

It also puts out a high pitched signal that Ando uses to track your location and kill you. :?:

UserNameBlank
06-22-2007, 03:54 PM
This sort of thing is to be expected when you give 618% every time you touch the field.
LMAO

balke
06-22-2007, 03:58 PM
Let the Luis Terrero era begin. HAHA. The Rowand lovers don't sound so dumb right now.

UserNameBlank
06-22-2007, 04:02 PM
Let the Luis Terrero era begin. HAHA. The Rowand lovers don't sound so dumb right now.
Says who? Rowand = Erstad of a few years ago.

102605
06-22-2007, 04:03 PM
Edit: Wrong thread.

balke
06-22-2007, 04:04 PM
Says who? Rowand = Erstad of a few years ago.

There's a difference between falling off a dirt bike, running into a wall, and popping your ankle wiffing on a curveball.

eriqjaffe
06-22-2007, 04:25 PM
Pods had an entire year in 2005 without an injuryWell, without DL time. He was nursing his constantly sore groin the entire second half of the year.

mjmcend
06-22-2007, 04:26 PM
Wow... did he get hurt playing catch? walking?

Grinding.

UserNameBlank
06-22-2007, 04:29 PM
There's a difference between falling off a motorcross bike, running into a wall, and popping your ankle wiffing on a curveball.
Are you actually trying to say Rowand is more grindier than Erstad?

BTW, Erstad's ankles grind at over the speed of light so it is impossible to see with a normal television camera what really happens when Darin swings at a curveball. To you or I, it looks like Darin just swings and misses, but that is not the case. He actually puts the bat down, slides head-first into first base, makes a diving catch in CF, stalks and kills a wild animal with his bare hands, steals someone's job, records and produces a solo album, returns to the plate, and then swings and misses. The sheer amount of friction applied to Darin's ankle during this so-called "at-bat" is so incredible that the steel inside temporarily melts, causing him to fall down and later exit the ballgame.

RowanDye
06-22-2007, 04:48 PM
Are you actually trying to say Rowand is more grindier than Erstad?

BTW, Erstad's ankles grind at over the speed of light so it is impossible to see with a normal television camera what really happens when Darin swings at a curveball. To you or I, it looks like Darin just swings and misses, but that is not the case. He actually puts the bat down, slides head-first into first base, makes a diving catch in CF, stalks and kills a wild animal with his bare hands, steals someone's job, records and produces a solo album, returns to the plate, and then swings and misses. The sheer amount of friction applied to Darin's ankle during this so-called "at-bat" is so incredible that the steel inside temporarily melts, causing him to fall down and later exit the ballgame.


:rolling::rolling: ehhhh....:thud::whiner:

LauraJ14
06-22-2007, 05:22 PM
I found it interesting that Ozzie said in the Sun Times today that he knew what he could get out of Erstad, but not out of Pods because Pods was injury prone. Pods had an entire year in 2005 without an injury, and Erstad didn't last 3 months for us before landing on the DL.


If I remember correctly - Pods did spend some time in August 05 on the DL - he only played 129 games in 2005 and 139 games in 2006.

oeo
06-22-2007, 05:27 PM
I said it when we signed him and I will say it again now waste of time and money was Erstad.

I don't even think we're paying him a million.

Jjav829
06-22-2007, 06:00 PM
I said it when we signed him and I will say it again now waste of time and money was Erstad.

Of all the players on this team that have been a waste this year, Darin Erstad ranks about 23rd.

Tragg
06-22-2007, 06:06 PM
Don't you know Podsednik and Erstad are what is holding this team back? If we only got rid of them entirely their evil would cease to infect the team and then everything would be wonderful. I mean, ever since the day Erstad went and shanked Anderson in the locker room, making Brian need that kidney transplant, the team has never been the same since.
Mock a young player - wonderful, have at it. Meanwhile, this team full of slap hitting veterans is an embarassment.

Of all the players on this team that have been a waste this year, Darin Erstad ranks about 23rd.

True, but only because the rest of the hitters are so bad. .310 OBP and 2 homers isn't close to good hitting.

Jjav829
06-22-2007, 06:15 PM
True, but only because the rest of the hitters are so bad. .310 OBP and 2 homers isn't close to good hitting.

No, but given what we were counting on from him, and the job he did in the leadoff spot when Pods was out (.295 AVG/.338 OBP), he's far from the top of reasons why this team has been bad this year. He's probably one of the few players who you can say did his job this year when he was out there.

russ99
06-22-2007, 06:16 PM
Let the Luis Terrero era begin. HAHA. The Rowand lovers don't sound so dumb right now.

If a Sox CF era is to begin, it will be the Sweeney Era.

Luis Tererro is and always will be a minor league star and a major league bench player. To expect anything else is asking for trouble.

Tragg
06-22-2007, 06:44 PM
So what happened to him today?
I sure would rather him out there than Mack.

JB98
06-22-2007, 06:48 PM
If a Sox CF era is to begin, it will be the Sweeney Era.

Luis Tererro is and always will be a minor league star and a major league bench player. To expect anything else is asking for trouble.

Terrero is a fourth outfielder and a platoon player, IMO.

Priority No. 1 right now has to be rebuilding this team up the middle. We're set at catcher with AJ. We definitely need a new SS and a new CF. A decision needs to be made on Iguchi.

Cellview22
06-22-2007, 06:53 PM
Any word on how long he'll be out? Is this day-to-day or is he going back on the DL?

itsnotrequired
06-22-2007, 07:12 PM
Sounds like the same thing Cub fans say when wood and Prior make their annual DL trip.

Injury ridden players miss a lot of time due to injuries. Who knew?

Just DFA him already. Maybe some team will cough up a "D" prospect or some journeyman with a funny name.

So when does the "grindout count" return? Anxious haters await your answer...

Malgar 12
06-22-2007, 07:28 PM
If I remember correctly - Pods did spend some time in August 05 on the DL - he only played 129 games in 2005 and 139 games in 2006.

Yeah. Didn't the Sox seven game losing streak coincide with that? Then they hit 3 home runs off Randy Johnson in the same inning and won a game...

StillMissOzzie
06-22-2007, 07:38 PM
"The Grinder" is gonna be inducted into the cub- killer HOF today I think. :gulp:

Uhhh, no.

Hopefully he will stay healthy enough and produce enough to yield something in a trade during the next two months.

Uhhh, no.

Can we just end the Darin Erstad experiment, please? He's incapable of staying healthy, and the team sucks. Release him, and play the kids.

Uhhh, yes.

Ughhhh what a disapointment

Uhhh, yes.

Its a shame because the guy is a gamer.
You've got to play the game to be a "gamer".

Sounds like the same thing Cub fans say when Wood and Prior make their annual DL trip.

Injury ridden players miss a lot of time due to injuries. Who knew?

Just DFA him already. Maybe some team will cough up a "D" prospect or some journeyman with a funny name.

Well, if this had happened 3-4 years in a row, I'd be inclined to agree. Since I doubt that the Sox are gonna pick up Erstad's option for 2008, we won't get that golden opportunity.

Are you actually trying to say Rowand is more grindier than Erstad?

BTW, Erstad's ankles grind at over the speed of light so it is impossible to see with a normal television camera what really happens when Darin swings at a curveball. To you or I, it looks like Darin just swings and misses, but that is not the case. He actually puts the bat down, slides head-first into first base, makes a diving catch in CF, stalks and kills a wild animal with his bare hands, steals someone's job, records and produces a solo album, returns to the plate, and then swings and misses. The sheer amount of friction applied to Darin's ankle during this so-called "at-bat" is so incredible that the steel inside temporarily melts, causing him to fall down and later exit the ballgame.
Classic rant! I LOL'd

SMO
:mad::angry::whiner:

sox1970
06-22-2007, 07:43 PM
Podsednik was pulled from the Charlotte game after two at bats tonight. Not sure if you can read into it that he's coming up tomorrow in place of Ersatd.

Tragg
06-22-2007, 07:55 PM
In 2005, we had a team that pitched well, played impeccable defense and hit home runs. The only players who could possibly be considered grinders were Rowand (who could hit home runs) and maybe podsednik (who could get on base). That team also had some speed. That team, with minimal no-power grinders , wins a WS.

In the last 2 years, we decide to transform much of that offense to less power but more, I don't know what you call it - grinders, doink hitting, duck snorting, whatever.

I don't hate Erstad - I just remain dumfounded, disappointed, and I guess angry about why we switched philosophies from what won a championship to, well, this. (and injuries or not, this is not a good team).

MisterB
06-22-2007, 08:51 PM
In 2005, we had a team that pitched well, played impeccable defense and hit home runs. The only players who could possibly be considered grinders were Rowand (who could hit home runs) and maybe podsednik (who could get on base). That team also had some speed. That team, with minimal no-power grinders , wins a WS.

In the last 2 years, we decide to transform much of that offense to less power but more, I don't know what you call it - grinders, doink hitting, duck snorting, whatever.

I don't hate Erstad - I just remain dumfounded, disappointed, and I guess angry about why we switched philosophies from what won a championship to, well, this. (and injuries or not, this is not a good team).

What change in philosophies? Only 2 members of the starting lineup have changed since '05 - Thome for Everett/Thomas (better RBI potential) and Erstad for Rowand (both 'grinder' types).

As for the bench you got Macko for Timo (more power, less speed), Hall for Widger (a negligible change), Cintron for Harris (less speed, but a better overall hitter) and a rotating cast of 25th men who make little difference anyway.

Where is this change in philosophy? I don't see it. The only difference is that this year's team isn't executing worth a ****, whereas the '05 team seemed to to do everything right at the right times.

Lip Man 1
06-22-2007, 08:54 PM
Pods was on the DL in 2005 from August 15 through August 29.

Lip

santo=dorf
06-22-2007, 09:32 PM
I don't even think we're paying him a million.
Erstad is guaranteed $1 million with the Sox.

He will "only" get 750k if the Sox foolishly pick up his whopping $3.5 million option for next season, which some people actually advocated doing. :o:


I bet Erstad and Pods wear ski masks when cashing their paychecks. :angry:

santo=dorf
06-22-2007, 09:34 PM
So when does the "grindout count" return? Anxious haters await your answer...
I wasn't going to keep count while he was on the DL, but I still have the numbers.

How long until the excuse makers admit he has been a complete waste of cash?

MRM
06-22-2007, 09:35 PM
What change in philosophies? Only 2 members of the starting lineup have changed since '05 - Thome for Everett/Thomas (better RBI potential) and Erstad for Rowand (both 'grinder' types).

As for the bench you got Macko for Timo (more power, less speed), Hall for Widger (a negligible change), Cintron for Harris (less speed, but a better overall hitter) and a rotating cast of 25th men who make little difference anyway.

Where is this change in philosophy

You want a change in philosophy from '05?

MRM
06-22-2007, 09:36 PM
I wasn't going to keep count while he was on the DL, but I still have the numbers.

How long until the excuse makers admit he has been a complete waste of cash?

When do the haters admit that hindsight declarations are meaningless?

MRM
06-22-2007, 09:40 PM
Erstad is guaranteed $1 million with the Sox.

He will "only" get 750k if the Sox foolishly pick up his whopping $3.5 million option for next season, which some people actually advocated doing. :o:

I could easily see the Sox rework that extension and easily see Erstad agree to a re-working. Let's not forget that Erstad was signed as a FOURTH OF who won the starting job in spring training.

santo=dorf
06-22-2007, 09:41 PM
When do the haters admit that hindsight declarations are meaningless?
Except I was calling it a bad move since the beginning. It wasn't hindsight.

Nice try.
I could easily see the Sox rework that extension and easily see Erstad agree to a re-working. Let's not forget that Erstad was signed as a FOURTH OF who won the starting job in spring training.

Ozzie was full of it. Anderson never had a chance and he had better spring training numbers than Grinderstad.

JB98
06-22-2007, 09:46 PM
Except I was calling it a bad move since the beginning. It wasn't hindsight.

Nice try.


Ozzie was full of it. Anderson never had a chance and he had better spring training numbers than Grinderstad.

I agree. You should manage the Sox. Fire Ozzie!

A. Cavatica
06-22-2007, 09:50 PM
I think Erstad should play just six games a year. We should freeze him between starts to keep him healthy.

TDog
06-22-2007, 09:57 PM
...

I don't hate Erstad - I just remain dumfounded, disappointed, and I guess angry about why we switched philosophies from what won a championship to, well, this. (and injuries or not, this is not a good team).

If the White Sox had switched philosophies, they would have had a better chance at being competitive this year. They made a couple of personnel changes, but they didn't address the philosophical problems that sowed the seeds for this atrocious season.

The team didn't have enough quality hitters in 2005. The cost of upgrading at DH created a hole in center field that was filled by Erstad before he was injured. It's been downhill from there, but it's inconceivable that the White Sox could have repeated in the AL Central without upgrading at DH.

I wish the Sox had switched philosophies, focusing on speed and defense to complement the pitching, but the pitching went south last year, so that might have left the Sox where they are today.

The Sox did change philosophies by increasing the payroll, but some of us were saying pre-2005 that increasing payroll wouldn't necessarily improve the team.

MRM
06-22-2007, 10:05 PM
Except I was calling it a bad move since the beginning. It wasn't hindsight.

Nice try.


Ozzie was full of it. Anderson never had a chance and he had better spring training numbers than Grinderstad.

You want me to believe you "knew" Erstads signing was a but but then you say that you put stock in spring training "numbers"? ROFLMAO

Apparently you have ZERO clue what happens at spring training.

Droso5
06-22-2007, 10:24 PM
Epic clairvoyance. I liked the signing, and for a time it was good. Now it is not good because he is injured. Got a speedy CF with good defense for cheap though and it was a reasonable risk. Although at this point he is most likely done for a long while and it would behoove the White Sox to start playing younger talent to take stock.

UserNameBlank
06-22-2007, 10:27 PM
You want me to believe you "knew" Erstads signing was a but but then you say that you put stock in spring training "numbers"? ROFLMAO

Apparently you have ZERO clue what happens at spring training.
Thanks for the update. I thought that a player's performance in ST did matter when he was supposedly competing for a starting job on the field. I guess I was wrong.

Your opinion >>>>>>> Anyone else's opinion.

santo=dorf
06-22-2007, 10:45 PM
You want me to believe you "knew" Erstads signing was a but but then you say that you put stock in spring training "numbers"? ROFLMAO

Apparently you have ZERO clue what happens at spring training.
:?:
The Erstad signing sucked.
You claim Erstad "won the job in ST" and I assume you meant because he put up better numbers. If not, how exactly was Erstad better in ST and how exactly did he win the job?

ROFLMAO on that one for awhile since apparently you know what exactly happened in ST.

ilsox7
06-22-2007, 10:49 PM
:?:
The Erstad signing sucked.
You claim Erstad "won the job in ST" and I assume you meant because he put up better numbers. If not, how exactly was Erstad better in ST and how exactly did he win the job?


ROFLMAO on that one for awhile since apparently you know what exactly happened in ST.

A LOT more goes on in spring training than what is seen for a couple of ABs against pitchers getting stretched out.

JB98
06-22-2007, 10:52 PM
A LOT more goes on in spring training than what is seen for a couple of ABs against pitchers getting stretched out.

And this whole Anderson/Erstad thing that's been going in circles for three months is a moot point anyway. Does anyone really believe we'd be a great team if BA were our starting CF this season? He's having an injury-plagued year, and he's batting .236 coming into tonight's action in Charlotte.

Yeah, CF is a problem, and it's one of many. We don't have a long-term solution in our organization, IMO.

UserNameBlank
06-22-2007, 10:58 PM
:?:
ROFLMAO on that one for awhile since apparently you know what exactly happened in ST.
Nothing happened in Spring Training. Spring Training does not exist. There were no players in Tucson. Tucson does not exist.

ilsox7
06-22-2007, 11:02 PM
And this whole Anderson/Erstad thing that's been going in circles for three months is a moot point anyway. Does anyone really believe we'd be a great team if BA were our starting CF this season? He's having an injury-plagued year, and he's batting .236 coming into tonight's action in Charlotte.

Yeah, CF is a problem, and it's one of many. We don't have a long-term solution in our organization, IMO.

Well said. It just baffles me that people think that the only thing that matters in spring training is how a guy hits against rusty pitchers in thin air.

MRM
06-22-2007, 11:28 PM
Thanks for the update. I thought that a player's performance in ST did matter when he was supposedly competing for a starting job on the field. I guess I was wrong.

Your opinion >>>>>>> Anyone else's opinion.

Nope. Performance does NOT = Numbers. Not sure why that's a hard concept.

MRM
06-22-2007, 11:29 PM
:?:
The Erstad signing sucked.
You claim Erstad "won the job in ST" and I assume you meant because he put up better numbers.

You assume wrong.

MRM
06-22-2007, 11:34 PM
A LOT more goes on in spring training than what is seen for a couple of ABs against pitchers getting stretched out.

Yet it seems to be the majority opinion in here that a SPRING batting average means everything?!?!?!?

I am glad to see more than ONE of us understand how it works just a bit.

Viva Medias B's
06-22-2007, 11:38 PM
FWIW, Grinderstad was just awarded a BBTN webgem for his catch today.

MRM
06-22-2007, 11:40 PM
Well said. It just baffles me that people think that the only thing that matters in spring training is how a guy hits against rusty pitchers in thin air.

Pitchers working on pitches and not situations, at that. That Spring B.A. means a lot, ROFLMAO.

ANYONE who thinks Anderson won or lost the starting CF job based on a spring training Batting average is CLUELESS!

Tragg
06-23-2007, 12:20 AM
And this whole Anderson/Erstad thing that's been going in circles for three months is a moot point anyway. Does anyone really believe we'd be a great team if BA were our starting CF this season? He's having an injury-plagued year, and he's batting .236 coming into tonight's action in Charlotte.


It's a question of do you take the guaranteed mediocrity of erstad, or do you take the risk with a young player who could be worse than mediocre or could develop into a real ML, while playing a guaranteed stellar defense.
I vote the latter...different philosophies.

MRM
06-23-2007, 12:26 AM
It's a question of do you take the guaranteed mediocrity of erstad, or do you take the risk with a young player who could be worse than mediocre or could develop into a real ML, while playing a guaranteed stellar defense.
I vote the latter...different philosophies.

Not neccessarily. It's a different knowledge base.

An injured Anderson isn't worth much. He's been playing with an injury for some two months now.

Tragg
06-23-2007, 12:32 AM
If the White Sox had switched philosophies, they would have had a better chance at being competitive this year. They made a couple of personnel changes, but they didn't address the philosophical problems that sowed the seeds for this atrocious season.

The team didn't have enough quality hitters in 2005. The cost of upgrading at DH created a hole in center field that was filled by Erstad before he was injured. It's been downhill from there, but it's inconceivable that the White Sox could have repeated in the AL Central without upgrading at DH.

I wish the Sox had switched philosophies, focusing on speed and defense to complement the pitching, but the pitching went south last year, so that might have left the Sox where they are today.

The Sox did change philosophies by increasing the payroll, but some of us were saying pre-2005 that increasing payroll wouldn't necessarily improve the team.
Well, we could have signed Frank Thomas. We chose not to. I certainly don't lament the Thome trade; but this year's center fielder is a grinder type, which we were not in 2005.
We cut the speedy Harris and then traded for the utility infielder Cintron.
To start 2005, we had a legitimate hitter, Carl Everett, on the bench; we haven't had one since, preferring utility players. I doubt we win the WS with Timo Perez or Cintron at DH.
We traded a bullpen pitcher who carried the bullpen from 2001-2004 (but who had severe control problems in 2005) for a utility player. After 2005 we needed a utility player; we got THREE. So we changed our bench to utility players. (who are generally third string in talent, but can play multiple positions so they hang around).
We removed Iguchi from the 2 hole to start this season and inserted Erstad who has less obp and less power.
I don't disagree with your point on going for more speed; but I think we've gone for less and substituted the slap hitters who hustle, aka grinders.

MRM
06-23-2007, 12:57 AM
Well, we could have signed Frank Thomas. We chose not to. I certainly don't lament the Thome trade; but this year's center fielder is a grinder type, which we were not in 2005.
We cut the speedy Harris and then traded for the utility infielder Cintron.
To start 2005, we had a legitimate hitter, Carl Everett, on the bench; we haven't had one since, preferring utility players. I doubt we win the WS with Timo Perez or Cintron at DH.
We traded a bullpen pitcher who carried the bullpen from 2001-2004 (but who had severe control problems in 2005) for a utility player. After 2005 we needed a utility player; we got THREE. So we changed our bench to utility players. (who are generally third string in talent, but can play multiple positions so they hang around).
We removed Iguchi from the 2 hole to start this season and inserted Erstad who has less obp and less power.
I don't disagree with your point on going for more speed; but I think we've gone for less and substituted the slap hitters who hustle, aka grinders.

I'm concerned with your memory my friend.

As for "grinder" in '05, perhaps you don't recall that guy who was patrolling centerfield? Carl Everett was hardly a bench player in '05. The man was the every day DH for most of the year.

I'm not sure about the Iguchi thing, either, but he's been at the top of the lineup most of the year. (I don't get the "move him down because of his power" thing, myself)

I'd also like to know who the "slap hitters who hustle" are on the Sox right now? I can't think of a single one in the current lineup.

JB98
06-23-2007, 01:00 AM
It's a question of do you take the guaranteed mediocrity of erstad, or do you take the risk with a young player who could be worse than mediocre or could develop into a real ML, while playing a guaranteed stellar defense.
I vote the latter...different philosophies.

That's beside the point. The point is that Brian Anderson would not save the 2007 Sox from sucking. Even if Ozzie had given him 69 consecutive starts in CF, we would still blow. REH like santo=dorf make it seem like Ozzie's decision to play Erstad in CF destroyed the team, and that's just silly, IMO.

Anderson had a bad year last year, and he's having a rough time this season too. It's my opinion that we don't have a long-term answer for CF anywhere in our organization. Obviously, that has to be a concern for KW.

MRM
06-23-2007, 01:14 AM
That's beside the point. The point is that Brian Anderson would not save the 2007 Sox from sucking. Even if Ozzie had given him 69 consecutive starts in CF, we would still blow. REH like santo=dorf make it seem like Ozzie's decision to play Erstad in CF destroyed the team, and that's just silly, IMO.

Anderson had a bad year last year, and he's having a rough time this season too. It's my opinion that we don't have a long-term answer for CF anywhere in our organization. Obviously, that has to be a concern for KW.

Ask KW what his three biggest concerns are and I'm pretty sure the answer isn't "centerfield"

santo=dorf
06-23-2007, 03:51 AM
That's beside the point. The point is that Brian Anderson would not save the 2007 Sox from sucking. Even if Ozzie had given him 69 consecutive starts in CF, we would still blow. REH like santo=dorf make it seem like Ozzie's decision to play Erstad in CF destroyed the team, and that's just silly, IMO.

Anderson had a bad year last year, and he's having a rough time this season too. It's my opinion that we don't have a long-term answer for CF anywhere in our organization. Obviously, that has to be a concern for KW.

No, that's not what I'm thinking, but if you feel that telling yourself that justifies the Erstad signing, more power to you.

I was in favor of Erstad being the 4th OF/back up 1st baseman (replace Gload.) I think Ozzie screwed up by never giving Anderson a chance and making Erstad an everyday player.

Because Ozzie completely mishandled the situation and Erstad's offensive numbers suck, it makes it a bad signing.

Not sure why that concept is so hard to grasp. :?:

MRM
06-23-2007, 04:17 AM
No, that's not what I'm thinking, but if you feel that telling yourself that justifies the Erstad signing, more power to you.

I was in favor of Erstad being the 4th OF/back up 1st baseman (replace Gload.) I think Ozzie screwed up by never giving Anderson a chance and making Erstad an everyday player

Anderson was given every chance. Don't know why that is so hard to understand.

santo=dorf
06-23-2007, 09:00 AM
Anderson was given every chance. Don't know why that is so hard to understand.
Prove it.

Anderson was told he had to outperform Erstad to win the CF job. He was better than Darin in ST yet somehow he didn't get it, making him the underdog

Anderson was told CF was up for grabs, making the match even.

Anderson was told it didn't matter what he hit in ST, making him the favorite.

Why is it such a stretch to think Ozzie has some bias against Brian? He once benched him against the Tigers because he said Brian's career numbers against Bonderman weren't good despite the fact Brian never faced Bonderman up until that point in time. :kukoo:

CLR01
06-23-2007, 09:10 AM
He once benched him against the Tigers because he said Brian's career numbers against Bonderman weren't good despite the fact Brian never faced Bonderman up until that point in time. :kukoo:

Well, he was right. I mean a .000avg, 0 hits, 0 walks, 0 runs, 0 rbi's isn't anything to write home about.

The Immigrant
06-23-2007, 09:15 AM
Anderson was given every chance. Don't know why that is so hard to understand.

He hit a double in the season opener against Sabathia only to be benched the very next game so Rob Mackowiak could start in CF. "Every chance" my ass.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-23-2007, 09:18 AM
Prove it.

Anderson was told he had to outperform Erstad to win the CF job. He was better than Darin in ST yet somehow he didn't get it, making him the underdog

Anderson was told CF was up for grabs, making the match even.

Anderson was told it didn't matter what he hit in ST, making him the favorite.

Why is it such a stretch to think Ozzie has some bias against Brian? He once benched him against the Tigers because he said Brian's career numbers against Bonderman weren't good despite the fact Brian never faced Bonderman up until that point in time. :kukoo:


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

A First-Class example of why a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.

I didn't realize santo=dorf was such an insider to everything about the Chicago White Sox.

Did Jerry have eggs or bacon for breakfast today? Enquiring minds want to know!!!

:cool:

southside rocks
06-23-2007, 09:21 AM
Ask KW what his three biggest concerns are and I'm pretty sure the answer isn't "centerfield"

I think that CF might be in KW's answer to that, if his answer were something like:
1. the bullpen, in which both long relievers and setup guys have totally sucked this year
2. second base and center field; being strong up the middle, which the team is not this year
3. leadoff spot and speed on the bases, of which the team has neither this year

So I think that CF is a part of a very big concern for KW. However, it's not the number one thing that he probably feels he has to address, I agree. But I think there are going to be quite a few changes made by KW, or maybe I'm just hoping for that.

ilsox7
06-23-2007, 09:23 AM
Anderson was told he had to outperform Erstad to win the CF job. He was better than Darin in ST yet somehow he didn't get it, making him the underdog



How do you know he was better in spring training? Because you woke up each morning and looked at a box score? Unless you were there every day, watching Erstad and Anderson, you have no clue. Get over it.

itsnotrequired
06-23-2007, 09:35 AM
How do you know he was better in spring training? Because you woke up each morning and looked at a box score? Unless you were there every day, watching Erstad and Anderson, you have no clue. Get over it.

Too bad Erstad got hurt again. I was looking forward to santo=dorf's "Grinder Count".

santo=dorf
06-23-2007, 09:57 AM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

A First-Class example of why a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.

I didn't realize santo=dorf was such an insider to everything about the Chicago White Sox.

Did Jerry have eggs or bacon for breakfast today? Enquiring minds want to know!!!

:cool:
Eggs.

Reinsdorf isn't supposed to eat bacon. :tongue:

santo=dorf
06-23-2007, 10:01 AM
How do you know he was better in spring training? Because you woke up each morning and looked at a box score? Unless you were there every day, watching Erstad and Anderson, you have no clue. Get over it.
Anderson was better. There's no argument. Stastically he hit better and they both played the field well.

Quit making excuses already.

INR, I brought the Grindout count back just for you.

Here's a visual of erstad's offensive ability at USCF:
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=5411&stc=1&d=1182610826

The opposing second basemen are getting their money's worth with Darin.

ilsox7
06-23-2007, 10:03 AM
Anderson was better. There's no argument. Stastically he hit better and they both played the field well.

Quit making excuses already.



I am not saying who was better or not. And I am not making excuses. I am simply saying you have no clue what happened at spring training. You need to understand that spring training is not at all about what happens in stupid-ass games that mean absolutely nothing. There is a LOT more to spring training.

itsnotrequired
06-23-2007, 10:08 AM
Anderson was better. There's no argument. Stastically he hit better and they both played the field well.

Quit making excuses already.

INR, I brought the Grindout count back just for you.

Here's a visual of erstad's offensive ability at USCF:
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=5411&stc=1&d=1182610826

The opposing second basemen are getting their money's worth with Darin.

The Count returns!

:bandance::bandance::bandance:

Erstad grounds out to second as much as Thome. Or Pierzynski. Same with Dye only to short. Or Crede to third.

Remind me again what the purpose of this count it?

JB98
06-23-2007, 02:56 PM
No, that's not what I'm thinking, but if you feel that telling yourself that justifies the Erstad signing, more power to you.

I was in favor of Erstad being the 4th OF/back up 1st baseman (replace Gload.) I think Ozzie screwed up by never giving Anderson a chance and making Erstad an everyday player.

Because Ozzie completely mishandled the situation and Erstad's offensive numbers suck, it makes it a bad signing.

Not sure why that concept is so hard to grasp. :?:

And Anderson is hitting .230 in Charlotte while battling injuries. We would still be a bad team if Anderson were here and not Erstad. I don't know why that is so hard to grasp.

JB98
06-23-2007, 02:57 PM
Ask KW what his three biggest concerns are and I'm pretty sure the answer isn't "centerfield"

Well, our bullpen might be the biggest concern, but I'm not sure why our weakness up the middle wouldn't land in KW's top three.

Scottiehaswheels
06-23-2007, 02:58 PM
And Anderson is hitting .230 in Charlotte while battling injuries. We would still be a bad team if Anderson were here and not Erstad. I don't know why that is so hard to grasp.Don't you realize that if he were up with the big club he'd be hitting .320 and he'd have health to spare to give to JD,Thome, and Pods?

102605
06-23-2007, 02:59 PM
Who cares about comparing Anderson or Erstad? Whats the point of wasting your time.

Neither is the White Sox CF of the future.

Craig Grebeck
06-23-2007, 05:33 PM
Although it wouldn't make a difference on this year's squad, having a young guy battle through adversity during a down season is a HELL of a lot better than watching a banged up vet try to keep his OBP above .300.

JB98
06-23-2007, 05:40 PM
Who cares about comparing Anderson or Erstad? Whats the point of wasting your time.

Neither is the White Sox CF of the future.

I agree 100 percent. But people continue to rant and rave about Ozzie's decision to go with Erstad over Anderson at the start of the year.

As if it matters.

AnkleSox
06-23-2007, 05:41 PM
It's a shame our Joliet Jackhammers lost to their Kane County Cougars.

JB98
06-23-2007, 05:54 PM
Although it wouldn't make a difference on this year's squad, having a young guy battle through adversity during a down season is a HELL of a lot better than watching a banged up vet try to keep his OBP above .300.

At the start of the year, the goal was to get to the World Series and win it. Not develop young talent.

champagne030
06-23-2007, 06:18 PM
I agree 100 percent. But people continue to rant and rave about Ozzie's decision to go with Erstad over Anderson at the start of the year.

As if it matters.

It doesn't matter. We would still be fighting KC to stay out of the cellar. I know the problem I have with the decision of Erstad over Anderson has nothing to do with baseball and is personal. That makes me question what other **** is going on, that has nothing to do with baseball, that is affecting Ozzie's decision making.

Why do pitchers get sent to the minors for sucking, but yet HackOWack, Uribe, Cintron, ect. get a free pass? We bring up Buckvich? Prinz??? If you're going to do that then ****ing send down Uribe, Cintron, Mack, ect.

Scottiehaswheels
06-23-2007, 06:21 PM
If you're going to do that then ****ing send down Uribe, Cintron, Mack, ect.Uh, because we can't send them down? Not like these guys have options or anything... They all have their 5 years in in the bigs.... Have to DFA them and if someone grabs them what the hell better do we have in the minors?

JB98
06-23-2007, 06:22 PM
It doesn't matter. We would still be fighting KC to stay out of the cellar. I know the problem I have with the decision of Erstad over Anderson has nothing to do with baseball and is personal. That makes me question what other **** is going on, that has nothing to do with baseball, that is affecting Ozzie's decision making.

Why do pitchers get sent to the minors for sucking, but yet HackOWack, Uribe, Cintron, ect. get a free pass? We bring up Buckvich? Prinz??? If you're going to do that then ****ing send down Uribe, Cintron, Mack, ect.

It's not that easy. You know better.