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View Full Version : Hall Of Fame: In or Out?


getonbckthr
06-21-2007, 10:51 PM
From Baseball Tonight here is the list and their responses:
PLAYER-VINA VOTE-OLNEY VOTE
Sosa- IN- IN
Thomas-IN-IN
Chipper-Bubble-Not yet
Thome-No-NO
Schilling-Yes-NO
Smoltz-IN-IN

I made the responses multiple and public. Curious to see everyones opinion. Like our own little WSI HOF committee.

MUsoxfan
06-21-2007, 10:55 PM
From Baseball Tonight here is the list and their responses:
PLAYER-VINA VOTE-OLNEY VOTE
Sosa- IN- IN
Thomas-IN-IN
Chipper-Bubble-Not yet
Thome-No-NO
Schilling-Yes-NO
Smoltz-IN-IN

Wow, this is tough. I'd say YES to: Sosa, Schilling, Smoltz. NO to: Larry Jones

Thome and Thomas are pretty much the same player in my mind and I love them both. However, I'd have to lean towards NO

FedEx227
06-21-2007, 11:32 PM
Sosa: YES (should be No, but we decided to turn the other cheek in 98)
Thomas: YES
Chipper: NO
Thome: NO
Schilling: NO
Smoltz: YES

oeo
06-21-2007, 11:34 PM
Eww...two Sosa's and no Thome?

FedEx227
06-21-2007, 11:36 PM
Eww...two Sosa's and no Thome?

I hate to do it. I really do. But since the HOF is based off of career numbers, etc. Sosa is in. If I had it my way it wouldn't be all about how many homers you have but instead about how well you carried yourself, how well you stayed out of trouble PLUS the numbers.

getonbckthr
06-22-2007, 12:05 AM
If possible could a mod change a Sosa to Thome.

ND_Sox_Fan
06-22-2007, 12:08 AM
Thomas ... YES!!!

A. Cavatica
06-22-2007, 12:15 AM
Thome and Thomas are pretty much the same player in my mind and I love them both. However, I'd have to lean towards NO

No to Thomas? :?: He's the best player in this group by a mile. He will lose points by being purely a hitter, but he is one of the greatest righthanded hitters of all time, certainly better than Jones or Sosa.

Yes to Smoltz. 200+ wins, with a season high of 24 and a Cy Young; lots of saves, with a season high of 55; lots of of exposure with the Braves and a 15-4 record in playoff games.

Schilling and Jones are borderline. I wouldn't vote for either, yet, but Jones has a great chance to make it. Jones was the best 3B in the NL for many years, has an MVP, and also benefits from being a Brave. Schilling won 20+ three times and pitched many big games, including the "bloody sock" game, but IMHO he falls just short.

Easy no votes for Thome (never finished higher than fourth in MVP voting) and Sosa (counterfeit).

WhiteSox5187
06-22-2007, 01:11 AM
Thome is interesting because had he played in say the 1980s, he'd be a first ballot HOFer but because he was a power hitter in the midst of the steroid era, his accomplishments look tainted. Ditto with Sosa. Thomas is one of the best right handed hitters in the history of the game who could do it all offensively. He was just magnificent to watch in his prime. He's easily a HOFer and he did it CLEAN, the only good thing about the steroid scandal was it gave you a new appreciation of how good a hitter Frank Thomas was. His name has never been mentioned on any sort of scandal and his numbers are consistent throughout his career. Also he was one of the leaders on the 2002 (or was it 2003?) White Sox that stood up and said "We WANT better testing. We're not going to test so it means the results will lead to better testing." And then of course we all know what the MLBPA did about that, but Frank, Paulie and I believe Aaron Rowand were all key leaders of that movement and good for them!

Smoltz is a HOFer too. He has 200+ wins and also spent two years in the bullpen? He's a first ballot guy. As for Schilling, if he weren't playing for Boston his name would not even be on this list.

Nellie_Fox
06-22-2007, 01:50 AM
I fixed the poll, changing the second Sosa to Thome, but now your whole poll is skewed by those who have already voted without the Thome choice.

MUsoxfan
06-22-2007, 02:01 AM
No to Thomas? :?: He's the best player in this group by a mile. He will lose points by being purely a hitter, but he is one of the greatest righthanded hitters of all time, certainly better than Jones or Sosa.




I'd vote for Thomas if he played on the field for a longer duration of his career. The man can hit, but there are alot of guys that can hit. I want my HOF'ers to show they have a decent glove for a great majority of their careers.

In this respect, Thome has Frank beat out IMO because he's only recently a DH in the twilight of his career.

itsnotrequired
06-22-2007, 06:11 AM
Thomas and Smoltz are a lock. Hard to say with the other guys. Sosa has the whole steroid issue and the other guys could still do something to warrant heading in.

DumpJerry
06-22-2007, 07:09 AM
I fixed the poll, changing the second Sosa to Thome, but now your whole poll is skewed by those who have already voted without the Thome choice.
Well, that blows the scientific validity of this poll. I hate it when that happens.

getonbckthr
06-22-2007, 02:02 PM
Well, that blows the scientific validity of this poll. I hate it when that happens.
I was so close yet so far. This was set up to be my break to the bigtime of polling. Rumor has it Foxnews and CNN were scouting and I dropped the ball.:D:

oeo
06-22-2007, 05:38 PM
I hate to do it. I really do. But since the HOF is based off of career numbers, etc. Sosa is in. If I had it my way it wouldn't be all about how many homers you have but instead about how well you carried yourself, how well you stayed out of trouble PLUS the numbers.

I was actually referring to the original poll choices...there were two Sosa options and no Thome.

oeo
06-22-2007, 05:42 PM
Thome and Thomas are pretty much the same player in my mind and I love them both.

No they are not the same player. Thomas > Thome in their primes. Plus, Frank has been plagued with injuries for the past 6 or 7 years, OTOH Thome has been virtually injury free his whole career. Imagine the numbers Frank would have without the injuries.

Daver
06-22-2007, 05:47 PM
If Frank Thomas is not a first ballot HOFer, it is further proof that the baseball HOF and it's voting system is a complete and utter joke, though I don't think any more proof is needed.

WhiteSox5187
06-22-2007, 07:08 PM
No they are not the same player. Thomas > Thome in their primes. Plus, Frank has been plagued with injuries for the past 6 or 7 years, OTOH Thome has been virtually injury free his whole career. Imagine the numbers Frank would have without the injuries.
Thome got banged up pretty bad in 2005. But all in all, I'd say that Thomas was a better all around hitter by far. I am nearly positive that Thomas and Thome are and were steroid free (I hope!) and had they played in say the 1970s or the 1980s then they would be first ballot guys. They had the unfortunate luck to play in the midst of the steroid era where everyone's numbers are cast under a cloud of suspicion.

Nellie_Fox
06-23-2007, 12:50 AM
Well, that blows the scientific validity of this poll. I hate it when that happens.Good point.

I was so close yet so far. This was set up to be my break to the bigtime of polling. Rumor has it Foxnews and CNN were scouting and I dropped the ball.:D:Sorry I didn't get here faster to fix it for you. :(:

I hate to do it. I really do. But since the HOF is based off of career numbers, etc. Sosa is in. If I had it my way it wouldn't be all about how many homers you have but instead about how well you carried yourself, how well you stayed out of trouble PLUS the numbers.It is. Go to the HOF website and read the criteria for selection. Character is on of them.

MUsoxfan
06-23-2007, 01:09 AM
No they are not the same player. Thomas > Thome in their primes. Plus, Frank has been plagued with injuries for the past 6 or 7 years, OTOH Thome has been virtually injury free his whole career. Imagine the numbers Frank would have without the injuries.

Frank Thomas

18 years
2312 hits
497 HR
1608 RBI
1593 BB
.303 BA


Jim Thome

17 years
1841 hits
481 HR
1329 RBI
1408 BB
.282 BA


Frank has an edge in these categories with one more year under his belt. I realize he's been hurt, but a lot of guys get hurt. You can't just assume statistics that aren't there. Frank doesn't blow Thome out of the water as far as HOF balloting is concerned.

PKalltheway
06-23-2007, 02:40 AM
Yes to Sosa, Thomas, Thome, Schilling, and Smoltz. No to Chipper Jones....at least for now. Give it a couple of more years and we'll see.

MRM
06-23-2007, 03:56 AM
1) Why is Schilling on this list with real HOFers?

2) How did he get more votes than Sosa?

Nevermind on #2. I know the answer. I just wonder if Sammy had stayed on the South Side and put up the same numbers would this particular poll be the same? :D:

MRM
06-23-2007, 04:08 AM
Plus, Frank has been plagued with injuries for the past 6 or 7 years, OTOH Thome has been virtually injury free his whole career.

I'll agree that in their prime Frank was easily the better hitter. In fact, it's not even close. Right now, I'd take Jim in a heartbeat, tho. Not even close.

MRM
06-23-2007, 04:10 AM
Frank Thomas

18 years
2312 hits
497 HR
1608 RBI
1593 BB
.303 BA


Jim Thome

17 years
1841 hits
481 HR
1329 RBI
1408 BB
.282 BA


Frank has an edge in these categories with one more year under his belt. I realize he's been hurt, but a lot of guys get hurt. You can't just assume statistics that aren't there. Frank doesn't blow Thome out of the water as far as HOF balloting is concerned.

How do you figure? The only number you posted that is even close is HRs. In every other respect Frank Blows him outta the water.

MRM
06-23-2007, 04:15 AM
It is. Go to the HOF website and read the criteria for selection. Character is on of them.

Then let the protests against Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, and many others begin. Otherwise the HOF is spitting into the wind on the whole "character" thing.

WSox597
06-23-2007, 07:37 AM
Sosa: NO (cheating shouldn't be rewarded)

Thomas: No (designated hitter most of his career)

Chipper: Yes (all-around great player on good teams)

Thome: No (close, though, played first base most of his career)

Schilling: NO

Smoltz: YES (one of the best, easy first ballot)

Nellie_Fox
06-23-2007, 09:10 PM
Then let the protests against Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, and many others begin. Otherwise the HOF is spitting into the wind on the whole "character" thing."Character" is a value judgment, based on the values in place at the time of the voting. You are applying today's values to players of the past. Besides, I was just pointing out that the character clause already exists, and does not have to be invented.

vegyrex
06-24-2007, 07:44 AM
Frank, a big YESSSS.

The only way Sosa should be in the HOF will be if he pays the $14.50 admission fee. :D:

hose
06-24-2007, 08:20 AM
Thomas - yes
Thome - yes
Chipper - yes------projecting his next 5-6 years are still productive.
Sosa - has the #'s but steroids are to much for me to over look.
Smoltz - no----great career just not HoF
Schilling - no ----see Smoltz

Deadguy
06-24-2007, 08:42 AM
Frank is currently 5th among active players in Win Shares:

http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/index.php?view=winshares&orderBy=cws&direction=DESC&page=1

Clemens and Biggio are just barely "active". Sheffield and Bonds...hmmm.

Anyway, Frank is a lock. No doubt about it. Thome should be too.

Everyone else on the list, no, for now.

soltrain21
06-24-2007, 10:05 AM
How can Schilling be considered? He has had some pretty good years..but...no.