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Viva Medias B's
06-21-2007, 09:40 PM
Note: If the mods feel it's appropriate to move this to "What's the score?", go right ahead.

That was the question posed on the ESPN SportsNation this evening. Shockingly, when BBTN just showed the results of the polling, all fifth states voted in the affirmative. This is a shock, and it's quite frankly very scary. When I went to ESPN.com and voted in a series of poll questions. According to the results, 66.8% of the 27,488 voters said Sosa is a HOFer. Yet, 71.7% also say he took steroids. That is very scary. It basically tells me that people tolerate the use of performance enhancing drugs. Another disturbing question in the survey was which among these three is most deserving of HOF status: Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, or Sammy Sosa? "None of the above" is my choice, but it wasn't an available choice!

Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, and every other ballplayer who bulked up on steroids does should not be a Hall of Famer.

itsnotrequired
06-21-2007, 09:58 PM
My favorite was the guy who wrote in and said Sosa "saved baseball" after the strike.

:rolleyes:

Jerko
06-21-2007, 10:01 PM
Same old blather. "Well............I'd vote for him because nothing was proven"............blah blah blah. This innocent till proven guilty crap should be reversed for these guys. The numbers alone are proof that something was up and well, just LOOK at the guy. Heads don't grow 3 sizes in your late 30s. HE should have to prove that he DIDN'T use steroids, not the other way around IMO. Of course, it's too late for that.

MUsoxfan
06-21-2007, 10:02 PM
He is because he has 600 HR's and has never tested positive for juice. He's not a first-ballot guy...same as McGuire...but both will get in.

I don't like it, but I don't like alot of things the HOF does or doesn't do

getonbckthr
06-21-2007, 10:47 PM
Show me a failed drug test. Until you do you cannot damn this guy and disregard the numbers he has produced based on personal feelings.

DumpJerry
06-21-2007, 10:55 PM
Show me a failed drug test. Until you do you cannot damn this guy and disregard the numbers he has produced based on personal feelings.
You're kidding, aren't you?

He all but admitted it with his "I did not take anything which was illegal at the time" statement last year after he forgot how to speak English when under oath. The issue wasn't illegality, but DID YOU TAKE THE JUICE?

getonbckthr
06-21-2007, 10:58 PM
You're kidding, aren't you?

He all but admitted it with his "I did not take anything which was illegal at the time" statement last year after he forgot how to speak English when under oath. The issue wasn't illegality, but DID YOU TAKE THE JUICE?
If it wasn't illegal then it was not wrong. It maybe morally wrong however HOF shouldn't be determined on Morals but performance. He has the numbers. You can take all the drugs you want you still have to put the wood on the ball.

MrT27
06-21-2007, 11:01 PM
Even with taking steroids, there is still no proof of how much if any help they give you to hit a baseball further. We will never know everyone who did steroids/HGH so its impossible to pin point what records can stay and what can't. I don't like his character at all, but baseball wise hes a Hall of Famer

The Dude
06-21-2007, 11:01 PM
If any of these three (McGwire, Bonds & Palmeiro) are hall of famers, then Sosa is as well. IMO none of them are, but to include one and exclude others makes no sense whatsoever.

DrewSox56
06-21-2007, 11:03 PM
If it wasn't illegal then it was not wrong. It maybe morally wrong however HOF shouldn't be determined on Morals but performance. He has the numbers. You can take all the drugs you want you still have to put the wood on the ball.

You might have missed about 200 or so HRs by him and McGwire in the late 90s....

He's got the numbers, yes. But I never saw so much ****ty "wood" get a ball out so fast either, though, and I will tell you; haven't seen it since.

getonbckthr
06-21-2007, 11:04 PM
If any of these three (McGwire, Bonds & Palmeiro) are hall of famers, then Sosa is as well. IMO none of them are, but to include one and exclude others makes no sense whatsoever.
How is Bonds not a HOF? Take away the steroids he is still a 500/500 guy with a solid career average, tons of GG and MVPs, multiple all star game nominations.

DumpJerry
06-21-2007, 11:05 PM
If it wasn't illegal then it was not wrong. It maybe morally wrong however HOF shouldn't be determined on Morals but performance. He has the numbers. You can take all the drugs you want you still have to put the wood on the ball.
That was not skill and talent hitting those balls out, that was a cyborg. Babe Ruth only had his skill and talent, same with Aaron and just about everyone before the late 1980's.

There is no test for HGH (illegal), so your argument is empty.

Putting wood on the ball does not mean an automatic home run.

Anyway, his fielding "skills" should keep him out of the HOF. He was not a complete player.

Let's talk about cork while we're at it.........

getonbckthr
06-21-2007, 11:06 PM
You might have missed about 200 or so HRs by him and McGwire in the late 90s....

He's got the numbers, yes. But I never saw so much ****ty "wood" get a ball out so fast either, though, and I will tell you; haven't seen it since.
Ok. How about the ball? The ball was juiced as well. Therefor pitchers stats from this era should be adjusted in a positive way if we are gonna diminish the high offensive stats.

champagne030
06-21-2007, 11:08 PM
Even with taking steroids, there is still no proof of how much if any help they give you to hit a baseball further. We will never know everyone who did steroids/HGH so its impossible to pin point what records can stay and what can't. I don't like his character at all, but baseball wise hes a Hall of Famer


5. Voting Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.

http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/rules.htm

What part of "integrity, sportsmanship and character" do you not understand?

getonbckthr
06-21-2007, 11:09 PM
That was not skill and talent hitting those balls out, that was a cyborg. Babe Ruth only had his skill and talent, same with Aaron and just about everyone before the late 1980's.

There is no test for HGH (illegal), so your argument is empty.

Putting wood on the ball does not mean an automatic home run.

Anyway, his fielding "skills" should keep him out of the HOF. He was not a complete player.

Let's talk about cork while we're at it.........
We have no proof that "back in the day" they weren't using things. Were they, in my opinion, no, but we can't be sure. His fielding skills weren't that bad until his final couple seasons on the northside. He had one of the best arms in baseball for a while. Lets talk cork. Then lets talk Pinetar. I guess George Brett shouldn't be in either.

voodoochile
06-21-2007, 11:20 PM
How is Bonds not a HOF? Take away the steroids he is still a 500/500 guy with a solid career average, tons of GG and MVPs, multiple all star game nominations.

And you know this how?

Who's to say he hasn't been juicing all along?

Besides, being a HOF'er has nothing to do with whether you did or did not pass a steroid's test. It's all about whether the newsmedia members who vote think you took them and whether they feel that matters.

It's a popularity contest at that stage of the game. Sosa probably makes it before Bonds...

champagne030
06-21-2007, 11:42 PM
We have no proof that "back in the day" they weren't using things. Were they, in my opinion, no, but we can't be sure. His fielding skills weren't that bad until his final couple seasons on the northside. He had one of the best arms in baseball for a while. Lets talk cork. Then lets talk Pinetar. I guess George Brett shouldn't be in either.

You've got to be kidding me? Pine tar, nowhere near where he would hit a homer, vs. someone <insert spouse beater/steroid joke> who took the time to cork the barrel of a bat? And use it during a game? I say let's talk cork.....

FedEx227
06-21-2007, 11:44 PM
:o: @ people trying to compare steroids + corked bat to pine-tar above the legal line.

getonbckthr
06-22-2007, 12:04 AM
:o: @ people trying to compare steroids + corked bat to pine-tar above the legal line.
Cheating is cheating.

HotelWhiteSox
06-22-2007, 12:10 AM
Cheating is cheating.

So a rapist and a guy who eats a grape he didn't pay for at a grocery store should be looked at the same?

There are different levels.

You can't specify it, but when you see a guy like Bret Boone not able to crack a ML roster after the scandal hits, or some of other drops of production from some guys, you know it makes a difference

EndemicSox
06-22-2007, 12:11 AM
He is a stone-cold lock, and should be first ballot, like my hero Big Hurt. I think this debate is borderline insane.

kaufsox
06-22-2007, 12:13 AM
With no proof, Sammy will get in. Corked bat? not enough to keep him out. Gaylord Perry got in, making cheating an art form. As far as steroids go, a shame, but what of amphetimines? Cocaine? both are performance enhancing, should players who used those substances be disregarded, or are greenies ok because that "was a different time."? We also don't know how many pitchers of his era were juicing as well. HGH and EPO have far greater benefits for pitchers than hitters and since there isn't an effective way to test for either, we'll never know who was using those substances. As far as Sammy's character, really? He isn't a great paragon of virtue, but he sure as hell isn't as bad as Ty Cobb, among a host of other players already enshrined.

And to the fellow poster who believes innocent until proven guilty should be suspended... um, no thanks, no matter how righteous the cause.

"and when you've struck down every law, so there is nothing but the devil and yourself, what then?" Thomas Moore, A Man for All Seasons

StillMissOzzie
06-22-2007, 12:22 AM
If any of these three (McGwire, Bonds & Palmeiro) are hall of famers, then Sosa is as well. IMO none of them are, but to include one and exclude others makes no sense whatsoever.
I have no qualms about omitting any of them, regardless of which ones, if any, DO get in.

With no proof, Sammy will get in. Corked bat? not enough to keep him out.
Regretfully, I agree.

Sosa and his sorry grasp of the English language has been the Teflon Don of the steroid scandal, and unless and until they can pin something on him, I think that he will get in. He may have to pay the "not on the 1st ballot" penance, but I think him and his 600+ HRs will eventually get in.

SMO
:gulp:

WhiteSox5187
06-22-2007, 01:04 AM
With no proof, Sammy will get in. Corked bat? not enough to keep him out. Gaylord Perry got in, making cheating an art form. As far as steroids go, a shame, but what of amphetimines? Cocaine? both are performance enhancing, should players who used those substances be disregarded, or are greenies ok because that "was a different time."? We also don't know how many pitchers of his era were juicing as well. HGH and EPO have far greater benefits for pitchers than hitters and since there isn't an effective way to test for either, we'll never know who was using those substances. As far as Sammy's character, really? He isn't a great paragon of virtue, but he sure as hell isn't as bad as Ty Cobb, among a host of other players already enshrined.

And to the fellow poster who believes innocent until proven guilty should be suspended... um, no thanks, no matter how righteous the cause.

"and when you've struck down every law, so there is nothing but the devil and yourself, what then?" Thomas Moore, A Man for All Seasons
While both cocaine and amphetimines keep you awake they do not give you anywhere near the edge that steroids give a player. Cocaine isn't going to take a guy who would normally hit about fifteen HRs a year and then make him into a power hitter, but HGH and steroids certainly can.

Out of Bonds, McGwire, and Sosa, Bonds was the only guy who was going to make it to the Hall without the benefit of steroids. He could do it all. It's too bad. As far as this innocent until proven guilty, there's a paper trail a mile long about Bonds and McGwire (and I'm curious to see what people will dig up on Sosa), so if this were to go to court (while using steroids is not a crime) I think that there is enough solid evidence to prove that Bonds and McGwire used steroids. McGwire all but admitted it. It was one of the saddest things I've seen on TV, I was just watching his whole career fall apart and all the magic and good feelings that I got from 1998 (I was like twelve at the time, it was really cool to see those two guys going for the record) just disappeared in a matter of seconds. It was sad really.

DumpJerry
06-22-2007, 07:14 AM
We have no proof that "back in the day" they weren't using things. Were they, in my opinion, no, but we can't be sure.
We do have proof. Most of the 'roids and HGH formulas being used did not exist until the late 1980's-early 1990's.

Babe Ruth's drug of choice was beer. He would use it even between innings.

Viva Medias B's
06-22-2007, 07:37 AM
We do have proof. Most of the 'roids and HGH formulas being used did not exist until the late 1980's-early 1990's.

Babe Ruth's drug of choice was beer. He would use it even between innings.

This may be urban legend, but whenever Ruth was in town to play the Sox, he would go to McCuddy's (moment of silence) between innings and get a drink. I don't know how Babe would have had time to do that, but it would not surprise me if he did.

veeter
06-22-2007, 11:54 AM
He is a stone-cold lock, and should be first ballot, like my hero Big Hurt. I think this debate is borderline insane.Your head is buried firmly in the sand. And comparing pine tar to cork and 'roids+ HGH, is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Personal feeling should get in the way. I hate him because he's a cheat, hot dog and selfish prick. All things that should keep him OUT of the Hall of fame. Hell, I actually wanted the cubs to retire him every at-bat. That speaks volumes.

rdwj
06-22-2007, 12:17 PM
If it wasn't illegal then it was not wrong.

You're wrong - it WAS illegal. Steroids are illegal in the United States. Baseball just didn't have rules specifically banning them. Baseball doesn't have a rule stating that you can't kill all the players on the other team before the game either, but that doesn't mean it's ok to do.

SBSoxFan
06-22-2007, 12:30 PM
We have no proof that "back in the day" they weren't using things. Were they, in my opinion, no, but we can't be sure. His fielding skills weren't that bad until his final couple seasons on the northside. He had one of the best arms in baseball for a while. Lets talk cork. Then lets talk Pinetar. I guess George Brett shouldn't be in either.

Wow. Are you playing devil's advocate in this thread or actually suggesting cork and pine tar have equal effects when a baseball and bat collide?

PKalltheway
06-22-2007, 01:16 PM
Even though he was on 'roids, you can't just erase this part of baseball history. It sucks, but it's the truth. What has happened, has happened. Sosa's a hall of famer on my ballot.

downstairs
06-22-2007, 01:44 PM
Even though he was on 'roids, you can't just erase this part of baseball history. It sucks, but it's the truth. What has happened, has happened. Sosa's a hall of famer on my ballot.

But that doesn't make sense. I agree, you can't take back history. The only thing that you can do is compare players on even ground conceptually.

So did the 'roids help Sosa hit home runs? Yes. How many would he have without them? 200? 300? 599? You then take THOSE numbers and make your decision.

PaulDrake
06-22-2007, 01:51 PM
If it wasn't illegal then it was not wrong. Didn't we go over this numerous times? When did these substances become legal in this country, or did I miss something?

WhiteSox5187
06-22-2007, 07:27 PM
Didn't we go over this numerous times? When did these substances become legal in this country, or did I miss something?
ALSO wasn't there a rule in baseball from the cocaine scandals that said no player may be under the influence of any drug or narcotic unless prescribed by a doctor??? The problem is they just never tested for it. I've heard that somewhere...maybe I'm wrong.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-22-2007, 08:59 PM
He is a stone-cold lock, and should be first ballot, like my hero Big Hurt. I think this debate is borderline insane.

I'm endlessly amused at people who so obviously confuse a RIGHT with a PRIVILEGE.

The government recognizes your right to free speech. The government grants you the PRIVILEGE to drive a car.

If you're a citizen, you have the right to vote. If you're a sportswriter, it is a PRIVILEGE to vote for the hall of fame.

Sosa has a right to play baseball. It's a PRIVILEGE granted from baseball to be inducted into the hall of fame.

Sosa has NO RIGHT to the hall of fame... and only a dope as big as Phil Rogers would think he does... plus a few other equally weak-minded people.

Not all the idiots in the world are sportswriters.

Nellie_Fox
06-23-2007, 12:41 AM
We do have proof. Most of the 'roids and HGH formulas being used did not exist until the late 1980's-early 1990's.I don't know when HGH started being used as a performance enhancer, or when it was synthesized, for that matter, but 'roids have been abused in strength sports since at least the 60's.

Olympic weightlifter Vasily Alexiev was strongly suspected of being a juicer during his era of dominance in the '70's. The East German women's teams were on so much male hormones (anabolic steroids are just synthesized male hormones) that they were growing beards. The women who were on those teams have subsequently talked openly about what they were forced to take.

However, we do know that they had not yet been discovered until at least the 40's, and American pharmaceutical companies didn't start to synthesize male hormones until the late 50's.

MrT27
06-23-2007, 02:44 AM
So did the 'roids help Sosa hit home runs? Yes. How many would he have without them? 200? 300? 599? You then take THOSE numbers and make your decision.There are no credible studies that connect drug use (steroids, HGH) to improved performance on the baseball field.

WhiteSoxFan84
06-23-2007, 02:49 AM
He's a HOFer. I hate when the polls get messed with by whomever (ahem) and 5 million votes are added to that option. I would've really liked to see legit results for this question on a White Sox message board.

Steroids or not, the guy was a gamer and was able to hit 600 home runs. McGwire couldn't do it (obviously on roids). Giambi won't do it (roids). And all those other clowns who juiced up won't be able to do it other than the biggest freak of all, Bonds.

That being said, if Bonds breaks Aaron's record I will not be applauding him. At the sametime I won't be as disappointed because I am really confident that A-Rod will end up being the all-time home run king as he ends his career with over 800 homers.

Nellie_Fox
06-23-2007, 02:50 AM
There are no credible studies that connect drug use (steroids, HGH) to improved performance on the baseball field.So how do you explain the explosion of home runs during the "steroid era?"

Year after year of players hitting over 60, and just as suddenly it went away. What research design would you suggest to test this?

MRM
06-23-2007, 03:51 AM
If any of these three (McGwire, Bonds & Palmeiro) are hall of famers, then Sosa is as well. IMO none of them are, but to include one and exclude others makes no sense whatsoever.

McGwire, Bonds and Sosa all have one thing in common that Palmeiro doesn't. NONE OF THOSE THREE EVER TESTED POSITIVE FOR STEROIDS. You can NOT compare someone who has tested positive to someone who hasn't simply because you THINK the latter took them.

Rafael is toast. For starters he was borderline to begin with before the 3000th hit. Then he points his finger at congress and tells them he's never done sterioids! Never!
Then he tests positive. Sorry dude, you lose. No HOF for you.

The other 3? Bonds and Sosa should be first ballot guys. McGwire probably should be as well. He hurt himself with that fiasco in front of congress so he probably won't be, but he belongs.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-23-2007, 09:09 AM
You can NOT compare someone who has tested positive to someone who hasn't simply because you THINK the latter took them.

I can't? Just watch me, pal.

There is some ex-ballplayer/gym rat with a lisp that has done multiple stints in jail because the feds know he has the goods on Bonds KNOWINGLY taking the juice he ADMITS he took. You're familiar with the term "contempt of court", right?

McGwire retired and absolutely refuses to talk at all about his past, not even before Congress. He wants to ignore his past? No problem; I'll ignore it, too. He is not in the hall of fame and that's where it stays until he talks. He has NO RIGHT to induction without explaining what he and Jose Canseco were really doing together inside the johns of Oakland Coliseum.

Sosa got a pass from the local media with his "Flintstone vitamins" defense, to the point where they verbally attacked anyone who would confront their hero's nonsense. He clammed up before Congress, too, the most clever (ridiculous?) ballplayer there -- pretending he couldn't speak English!
:o:

"Testing" is a strawman argument for people like yourself who have their "hall of fame" point of view boxed in on all other corners. The criteria for induction into the hall of fame has NOTHING to do with testing, and you might as well just resign yourself to this fact.

Ziggy S
06-23-2007, 09:17 AM
I can't? Just watch me, pal.

There is some ex-ballplayer/gym rat with a lisp that has done multiple stints in jail because the feds know he has the goods on Bonds KNOWINGLY taking the juice he ADMITS he took. You're familiar with the term "contempt of court", right?

McGwire retired and absolutely refuses to talk at all about his past, not even before Congress. He wants to ignore his past? No problem; I'll ignore it, too. He is not in the hall of fame and that's where it stays until he talks. He has NO RIGHT to induction without explaining what he and Jose Canseco were really doing together inside the johns of Oakland Coliseum.

Sosa got a pass from the local media with his "Flintstone vitamins" defense, to the point where they verbally attacked anyone who would confront their hero's nonsense. He clammed up before Congress, too, the most clever (ridiculous?) ballplayer there -- pretending he couldn't speak English!
:o:

"Testing" is a strawman argument for people like yourself who have their "hall of fame" point of view boxed in on all other corners. The criteria for induction into the hall of fame has NOTHING to do with testing, and you might as well just resign yourself to this fact.
George, FTW

POTY (Post of the Year)

kaufsox
06-23-2007, 09:35 AM
So how do you explain the explosion of home runs during the "steroid era?"

Year after year of players hitting over 60, and just as suddenly it went away. What research design would you suggest to test this?

that is anecdotal evidence and not a study. The most basic design would be control v. testing. Anyway, its a pretty moot point considering that the Soviet Union and other Eastern Bloc countries did conduct such tests and the results concluded that drugs did improve performance. Of course the AMA and the US government, I believe, still refuses to aknowledge those results for a myriad of scientific and political reasons.

kaufsox
06-23-2007, 09:46 AM
Sosa got a pass from the local media with his "Flintstone vitamins" defense, to the point where they verbally attacked anyone who would confront their hero's nonsense. He clammed up before Congress, too, the most clever (ridiculous?) ballplayer there -- pretending he couldn't speak English!
:o:

"Testing" is a strawman argument for people like yourself who have their "hall of fame" point of view boxed in on all other corners. The criteria for induction into the hall of fame has NOTHING to do with testing, and you might as well just resign yourself to this fact.

Sosa got a pass from ALL media as did McGwire. The one person who dared to question Mac got lambasted for "ruining this magical moment" etc. It was a an entire professional breakdown when it came to steroids and the media. They were as complicit as MLB and the players union. As far as Sammy having an English speaking lawyer doing all of his talking before Congress, I've got no problem with that. He is not a native speaker and this was/is a big deal. Did he take the act a little too far? yeah he did, but once a person gets the call from Congress or the courts, I don't begrudge them legal representation one bit. Finally, nope, the HOF has nothing to do with testing, or objectivity. The group that gave Sosa a pass in 1998 will make a "statement" by not inducting him on the first ballot. He'll eventually get in. Here's an idea: how about all media members who sat silent about steroids during 1998 have their voting priviledges revoked?

PaleHoseGeorge
06-23-2007, 09:50 AM
Here's an idea: how about all media members who sat silent about steroids during 1998 have their voting priviledges revoked?

I would support this idea 100 percent. These Holier-than-thou types would be singing a new tune very quickly.

Watch how fast a self-promoter like Phil Rogers gets religion on the subject. It would take him 10 seconds to reverse himself... just like the Windsock he is.

voodoochile
06-23-2007, 10:11 AM
I would support this idea 100 percent. These Holier-than-thou types would be singing a new tune very quickly.

Watch how fast a self-promoter like Phil Rogers gets religion on the subject. It would take him 10 seconds to reverse himself... just like the Windsock he is.

Yeah, wouldn't that be special, but no way in hell it ever happens. That would require MLB to actually WANT to catch somebody, but then things would get really ugly when the players started turning on the owners/managers who turned a blind eye to everything. That in turn would be the tip of the iceberg and Congress would ream MLB a new you-know-what about as fast as Sham-ME* relearned English after leaving the steroid hearing.

Then things would get truly ugly. Of course there would be plenty of fans who just wouldn't give a crap. I mean MRM is willing to accept at face value that Bonds truly thought the cream and the clear were flaxseed oil :o:

Denial, it's not just a river in Egypt you know and it's the only thing holding this house of cards together...

hose
06-23-2007, 11:51 AM
If I had a vote for the baseball HoF I wouldn't vote for Sosa.

I would nominate him for the Pharmaceutical Hall of Fame.

MrT27
06-23-2007, 11:53 AM
So how do you explain the explosion of home runs during the "steroid era?"

Year after year of players hitting over 60, and just as suddenly it went away. What research design would you suggest to test this?
Smaller ballparks, harder baseballs, different/better bats, worse quality pitchers because there are more teams then in the past

MrT27
06-23-2007, 11:58 AM
that is anecdotal evidence and not a study. The most basic design would be control v. testing. Anyway, its a pretty moot point considering that the Soviet Union and other Eastern Bloc countries did conduct such tests and the results concluded that drugs did improve performance. Of course the AMA and the US government, I believe, still refuses to aknowledge those results for a myriad of scientific and political reasons.The Soviet Union concluded that taking steroids helps a baseball player hit a baseball further? :?:

voodoochile
06-23-2007, 12:03 PM
Smaller ballparks, harder baseballs, different/better bats, worse quality pitchers because there are more teams then in the past

Okay, Babe's record stood for 30 years or so. Then it got broken by 1. That record stood for almost 30 years and got crushed by 10 and another guy broke it by 6 the same year. Then the next few years saw 61 HR eclipsed several times (I forget the exact details, look 'em up if you are interested). Finally culminating in Bonds hitting 73 (almost a 20% increase) over the record set in 1961.

I am sure some of the factors you are suggesting played a part in it, but we know for a fact that McGwire and Bonds were juicing. Giambi and Palmeiro were also. We also know that Sosa wasn't afraid to cheat (corked bat).

That's not just smoke, there's flames billowing out of the windows...

PaleHoseGeorge
06-23-2007, 01:45 PM
Smaller ballparks, harder baseballs, different/better bats, worse quality pitchers because there are more teams then in the past

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

MrT would like to welcome everyone at WSI to 1998. Enjoy your stay!!!

Congratulations. You're qualified to be a sportswriter.

:tool
"I like it when they play dumb!"

vegyrex
06-23-2007, 02:21 PM
If Shammie does go in I hope its not until his final year of eligibility. :cool:

bigfoot
06-23-2007, 07:50 PM
If Shammie does go in I hope its not until his final year of eligibility. :cool:

Posthumously?:rolleyes:

Nellie_Fox
06-23-2007, 09:07 PM
Smaller ballparks, harder baseballs, different/better bats, worse quality pitchers because there are more teams then in the pastYou conveniently missed answering the part about how come the 60+ home run seasons went away just as quickly as they appeared.

MrT27
06-23-2007, 10:59 PM
You conveniently missed answering the part about how come the 60+ home run seasons went away just as quickly as they appeared.
Statistical anomaly. I think there will be more players in the future to hit 60.