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View Full Version : Steel Cage Death Match at Shortstop (who would you rather have)


WhiteSox5187
06-21-2007, 09:05 PM
To me it's clear that Uribe is just awful but since Ozzie left we haven't had a solid shortstop. So at this point who would you rather have as your starting shortstop? Royce the Choice? Caruso? Valentin? The skeleton of Luke Appling? Stick it out with Uribe?

Mods, could you please make this a poll?

UserNameBlank
06-21-2007, 09:12 PM
Is it who we want or who would win the fight?

I'd take the Appling skeleton as my choice, but I think Juan would just eat everyone in a real fight.

Of course if weapons are involved the whoe game changes, but if those weapons are for close combat, I'd definitely count out Royce as he simply doesn't have the range.

WhiteSox5187
06-21-2007, 09:16 PM
Is it who we want or who would win the fight?

I'd take the Appling skeleton as my choice, but I think Juan would just eat everyone in a real fight.

Of course if weapons are involved the whoe game changes, but if those weapons are for close combat, I'd definitely count out Royce as he simply doesn't have the range.
No, I'm sorry, I didn't mean a real fight. I mean who would you want now as your starting shortstop. It seemed to me that all the choices were so bad it would be like a sorta steel cage death match...Perhaps I named this thread poorly.:(:

CLR01
06-21-2007, 09:18 PM
Who's Valentine?

CLR01
06-21-2007, 09:22 PM
Of course if weapons are involved the whoe game changes, but if those weapons are for close combat, I'd definitely count out Royce as he simply doesn't have the range.

It would have to be between Appling's skeleton and Valentin. As you said, Royce has no range and Juan being the tallest of the bunch (tied with The Choice anyway) and his love of swinging at everything over his head would hurt him.


Edit- Whoops missed Slappy in there. He's the tallest. :D:

UserNameBlank
06-21-2007, 09:23 PM
No, I'm sorry, I didn't mean a real fight. I mean who would you want now as your starting shortstop. It seemed to me that all the choices were so bad it would be like a sorta steel cage death match...Perhaps I named this thread poorly.:(:
Oh ok, but steel cage matches are generally much more entertaining than our current SS options. Speaking of which, Juan Uribe is Abdullah the Butcher at the plate.

WhiteSox5187
06-21-2007, 09:23 PM
This thread is rapidly devolving from what I had hoped it would be.:whiner:

UserNameBlank
06-21-2007, 09:26 PM
This thread is rapidly devolving from what I had hoped it would be.:whiner:
Just wait until someone talks about what Darin Erstad would do in a steel cage death match....

:o:

CLR01
06-21-2007, 09:27 PM
Just wait until someone talks about what Darin Erstad would do in a steel cage death match....

:o:

A steel cage could never contain him.

Huisj
06-21-2007, 09:34 PM
Getting back to what this thread should be about (sort of at least), what is up with Uribe? Sure, he was never a great player, but his offense has gotten worse and worse each year he's been here, and his defense has gotten worse too. He hit like crazy in big spurts in 2004, then hit a little worse in '05 except for September when he helped carry the team out of their slump, and then he was bad last year and is horrible this year. His defense was extremely dependable in '05, especially on big plays in tight games, and it was a little lazier last year, and this year it's just plain pathetic. How can a guy with this much talent go backwards so many years in a row at the age when most people hit their peak?

I remember when the Sox got him that the Rockies said something about him having a bad work ethic, and Uribe's response was that Colorado kept trying to change him from doing things the way he was comfortable (like the odd way he throws and swings). It looks like maybe Colorado was right though.

WhiteSox5187
06-21-2007, 09:37 PM
Getting back to what this thread should be about (sort of at least), what is up with Uribe? Sure, he was never a great player, but his offense has gotten worse and worse each year he's been here, and his defense has gotten worse too. He hit like crazy in big spurts in 2004, then hit a little worse in '05 except for September when he helped carry the team out of their slump, and then he was bad last year and is horrible this year. His defense was extremely dependable in '05, especially on big plays in tight games, and it was a little lazier last year, and this year it's just plain pathetic. How can a guy with this much talent go backwards so many years in a row at the age when most people hit their peak?
I think he's lazy. THat's the only thing I can think of. He has all the tools but seems to show up every year at ST more and more out of shape...A caller on the post game show on Wenseday said it best "Cintron just isn't that good of a player and I can live with that. But Uribe is a dog." I agree with that statement. I have no proof of it, but I think when you get down to it, that's how it is.

Viva Medias B's
06-21-2007, 09:43 PM
It would have to be between Appling's skeleton and Valentin. As you said, Royce has no range and Juan being the tallest of the bunch (tied with The Choice anyway) and his love of swinging at everything over his head would hurt him.


Edit- Whoops missed Slappy in there. He's the tallest. :D:

Nicely played.

I would vote for Andy Gonzalez in the short term. I'm sick of Uribe, and I'm sick of Cintron.

itsnotrequired
06-21-2007, 09:48 PM
I think he's lazy. THat's the only thing I can think of. He has all the tools but seems to show up every year at ST more and more out of shape...A caller on the post game show on Wenseday said it best "Cintron just isn't that good of a player and I can live with that. But Uribe is a dog." I agree with that statement. I have no proof of it, but I think when you get down to it, that's how it is.

Uribe showed up to ST this season in excellent shape. The team was surprised. As for this year, maybe the situation with his mother is weighing on his mind?

So you have no proof that he is a "dog" and the "only" thing you can think of is he's lazy? Keep trying...

UserNameBlank
06-21-2007, 09:55 PM
A steel cage could never contain him.
You're probably right.

Do you wanna know how Grinderstad really injured his ankle?

Here:
http://aycu20.webshots.com/image/19579/2001363424616316931_fs.jpg
He was hunting wild buffalo with his bare hands in the dangerous savannahs of southern California.

Link here (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2001363424616316931) if image doesn't show.

WhiteSox5187
06-21-2007, 09:57 PM
Uribe showed up to ST this season in excellent shape. The team was surprised. As for this year, maybe the situation with his mother is weighing on his mind?

So you have no proof that he is a "dog" and the "only" thing you can think of is he's lazy? Keep trying...
Your might, maybe he's just not that good.

Look, I'm not the ONLY person who is saying he's a dog out there. I've heard SCOUTS say that he's a dog. The Rockies absolutely blasted his work ethic.

It could very well be that the thing with his mother is weighing on his mind, and I have sympathy for that. But what about last year? Does his mother get better with every HR that Uribe hits? Is that why he keeps trying to swing for the fences in every at bat? It seems to me that there are really two options here with Uribe, he's either a) not very good or b) has the skills but is lazy. I'm leaning towards b right now.

DumpJerry
06-21-2007, 10:02 PM
You're probably right.

Do you wanna know how Grinderstad really injured his ankle?

Here:
http://aycu20.webshots.com/image/19579/2001363424616316931_fs.jpg
He was hunting wild buffalo with his bare hands in the dangerous savannahs of southern California.

Link here (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2001363424616316931) if image doesn't show.
I didn't know he used to hunt in his Angels' uni. Cool.

itsnotrequired
06-21-2007, 10:03 PM
Your might, maybe he's just not that good.

Look, I'm not the ONLY person who is saying he's a dog out there. I've heard SCOUTS say that he's a dog. The Rockies absolutely blasted his work ethic.

It could very well be that the thing with his mother is weighing on his mind, and I have sympathy for that. But what about last year? Does his mother get better with every HR that Uribe hits? Is that why he keeps trying to swing for the fences in every at bat? It seems to me that there are really two options here with Uribe, he's either a) not very good or b) has the skills but is lazy. I'm leaning towards b right now.

Do you personally converse with scouts? If not, any statements like that are pure heresay.

My take on Uribe? He is inconsistent. When he tries to hit opposite field, he is pretty successful. He'll do that for a few games and look decent doing so but then the next game, he screws himself into the ground with every swing. Is Ozzie turning him loose? Seems unlikely. I do wonder why he gets away with hacking around up there.

WhiteSox5187
06-21-2007, 10:09 PM
Do you personally converse with scouts? If not, any statements like that are pure heresay.

My take on Uribe? He is inconsistent. When he tries to hit opposite field, he is pretty successful. He'll do that for a few games and look decent doing so but then the next game, he screws himself into the ground with every swing. Is Ozzie turning him loose? Seems unlikely. I do wonder why he gets away with hacking around up there.
Actually, yes. I do. My dad used to work for the Iowa Oaks and the White Sox in the 1970s and became close with Walt Jocketty, Dave Dombrowski and Mike Squires. I usually see them at least twice a year and will ask them "What do you think of so and so?" before I point out that I hit two homeruns in a slow pitch softball game so if they're looking for an extra bat off the bench, I'm available. I have a friend who also works for Scout magazine.

For me his hacking up there drives me nuts, but he also seems to make some throw that winds up in the stands when he had the guy beat by two feet anyways. The play with Garland yesterday he let the ball bounce off his glove is an example of that. Truth be told, lazy might not be the right word, but neither is "good."

itsnotrequired
06-21-2007, 10:16 PM
Actually, yes. I do. My dad used to work for the Iowa Oaks and the White Sox in the 1970s and became close with Walt Jocketty, Dave Dombrowski and Mike Squires. I usually see them at least twice a year and will ask them "What do you think of so and so?" before I point out that I hit two homeruns in a slow pitch softball game so if they're looking for an extra bat off the bench, I'm available. I have a friend who also works for Scout magazine.

Fair enough.

For me his hacking up there drives me nuts, but he also seems to make some throw that winds up in the stands when he had the guy beat by two feet anyways. The play with Garland yesterday he let the ball bounce off his glove is an example of that. Truth be told, lazy might not be the right word, but neither is "good."

Uribe had a bad game yesterday, no question about it. It will happen. I still feel his defense is one of the best in the league. Hell, he only has 8 errors all season long. That's third best among regular starters. Yeah, yeah, he missed that easy pop-up when Danks was pitching so it doesn't count as an error but those are isolated as well. And it isn't like he's The Choice and just doesn't go after balls, reducing the risk of making an error.

I think people are just bitter over the season as a whole and Uribe's play in the last game makes him an easy scapegoat.

WhiteSox5187
06-21-2007, 10:22 PM
Fair enough.



Uribe had a bad game yesterday, no question about it. It will happen. I still feel his defense is one of the best in the league. Hell, he only has 8 errors all season long. That's third best among regular starters. Yeah, yeah, he missed that easy pop-up when Danks was pitching so it doesn't count as an error but those are isolated as well. And it isn't like he's The Choice and just doesn't go after balls, reducing the risk of making an error.

I think people are just bitter over the season as a whole and Uribe's play in the last game makes him an easy scapegoat.
Certainly I'm angry about the game yesterday, but it's not just that. I mean, how many times have seen Konerko dig a ball out of the dirt and save an error from Uribe? I'm not sure what the cause of it is, it could be he is upset about his at bat and thinking about (Ozzie has hinted that he thinks Uribe is thinking too much out there) or it could be that he's just not that good. I'm not really sure. And I'm tired so I'm not really making sense anymore...well, I guess I didn't really make a whole lot of sense to begin with. we shall continue this conversation tommorrow though.

Noneck
06-21-2007, 10:22 PM
I'll take the Little Looie of today, bet he could bunt better than anyone else on team and he wouldn't get picked off a base. And also might teach his countryman some class also.

The Immigrant
06-21-2007, 10:38 PM
http://www.votenoneoftheabove.us/images/voteDesign_r1_c1.jpghttp://www.votenoneoftheabove.us/images/voteDesign_r1_c2.jpghttp://www.votenoneoftheabove.us/images/voteDesign_r1_c3.gifhttp://www.votenoneoftheabove.us/images/voteDesign_r1_c4.jpg

jabrch
06-21-2007, 10:42 PM
Steel Cage Match?

I'll take this minor leaguer the Sox had back in the 70s named Randy Poffo. I guarantee he'd win a steel cage match over anyone in the game today or in the past.

:-)

getonbckthr
06-21-2007, 10:42 PM
Minus the skeleton, I would say Valentin. No he wasn't a gold glover, no he didn't hit for a real high average, but the guy when he was here seemed to have "it." He always appeared to be a leader. He could lay down a bunt when you needed it most. I feel he was somewhat underrated with his glove, and boy did it seem like he was clutch. In that era of the White Sox with the game on the line he was the guy you wanted up to bat.

getonbckthr
06-21-2007, 10:43 PM
Steel Cage Match?

I'll take this minor leaguer the Sox had back in the 70s named Randy Poffo. I guarantee he'd win a steel cage match over anyone in the game today or in the past.

:-)
OHHHHHHHHHHHH YEAHHHHHHHH! sNAP INTO A SLIM JIM.

MeteorsSox4367
06-21-2007, 10:50 PM
If Rowand comes back, could he play short?

But seriously, of that list, I'll take Valentin. He was always good for a couple of bombs, plus he was the victim of one of the funniest (I thought so, at least) putdowns of a player I've ever heard at a game when one fan yelled out, "You suck, Mustachio!"

pdr
06-21-2007, 10:54 PM
Who's Valentine?


Bobby.

soxfanatlanta
06-22-2007, 05:52 AM
Harry Chappas with a steel chair.

SBSoxFan
06-22-2007, 09:41 AM
Getting back to what this thread should be about (sort of at least), what is up with Uribe? Sure, he was never a great player, but his offense has gotten worse and worse each year he's been here, and his defense has gotten worse too. He hit like crazy in big spurts in 2004, then hit a little worse in '05 except for September when he helped carry the team out of their slump, and then he was bad last year and is horrible this year. His defense was extremely dependable in '05, especially on big plays in tight games, and it was a little lazier last year, and this year it's just plain pathetic. How can a guy with this much talent go backwards so many years in a row at the age when most people hit their peak?

I remember when the Sox got him that the Rockies said something about him having a bad work ethic, and Uribe's response was that Colorado kept trying to change him from doing things the way he was comfortable (like the odd way he throws and swings). It looks like maybe Colorado was right though.

I mentioned this in another thread, but look at Valentin's offensive numbers. Exact same downward spiral.

1917
06-22-2007, 09:45 AM
I'll take that guy who dove into the stands for the 2nd out of the last inning in game 4 of the WS....

vegyrex
06-22-2007, 10:52 AM
I'll take that guy who dove into the stands for the 2nd out of the last inning in game 4 of the WS....

So will I.


http://www.b12partners.net/mt/images/Juan_Uribe_catch_angle.jpg

slavko
06-22-2007, 01:05 PM
So we have to choose between the ultimate bat control guy and three of the other four guys come out of their shoes every time they swing a bat. To be fair, two of them have learned to swing a little easier since we dumped them. It's why they're still playing.

Ziggy S
06-22-2007, 02:15 PM
Luis Aparicio at 100 yrs old is better than any of the choices (no pun intended) that are still among the living.

soxinem1
06-22-2007, 03:07 PM
Getting back to what this thread should be about (sort of at least), what is up with Uribe? Sure, he was never a great player, but his offense has gotten worse and worse each year he's been here, and his defense has gotten worse too. He hit like crazy in big spurts in 2004, then hit a little worse in '05 except for September when he helped carry the team out of their slump, and then he was bad last year and is horrible this year. His defense was extremely dependable in '05, especially on big plays in tight games, and it was a little lazier last year, and this year it's just plain pathetic. How can a guy with this much talent go backwards so many years in a row at the age when most people hit their peak?

I remember when the Sox got him that the Rockies said something about him having a bad work ethic, and Uribe's response was that Colorado kept trying to change him from doing things the way he was comfortable (like the odd way he throws and swings). It looks like maybe Colorado was right though.


Plus Scott Boras is his agent, so DET will be offering him 5/75 after next year since they love Boras clients so much.

I however, think Jose Valentin, minus the second half of 2004, was able to contribute more than most other SS before and after Ozzie. remember, we were not much of a SS factory after Aparicio was traded after the 1970 season.

Plus, he hit many clutch HR's, and really got into the Sox-cubs series when they played. That alone makes me a fan of his for life.

MDF3530
06-24-2007, 01:31 PM
Just wait until someone talks about what Darin Erstad would do in a steel cage death match....

:o:He wouldn't take the easy ways out by climbing or going out the cage door. He'd grind his way through the chain link fencing.

fusillirob1983
06-24-2007, 01:51 PM
"Cage matches, of course they work. If they didn't, then everyone would still be in the cage." - Michael Scott

I have to go with Uribe. He makes contact more often than Jose, makes fewer errors than Caruso, isn't a skeleton, and is a better hitter all-around than the Choice.

I can't believe I just reasoned that Uribe is better than 3 other shortstops.

Frater Perdurabo
06-24-2007, 04:03 PM
Valentin annoyed me a lot when he was on the Sox. His average seemed to drop every year after his great 2000 season. He made some bone-headed errors, too.

But Uribe's average has dropped like a stone each year, as well. He makes bone-headed plays, too. He often makes me long for Valentin. At least at the end, we knew he was good for 25 homers (as a lefty) and could lay down a bunt.

IMHO Uribe's decline in batting average provides the most damning evidence for Greg Walker's ineptitude.