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StepsInSC
06-21-2007, 01:22 PM
This is nothing new to anyone here, but it's still impressive (err...unimpressive) to see info covering a couple weeks consolidated down to a page of writing. Here's a BP writer's quick summary of 10 of the last 19 losses...which occurred over a span of 24 games. He's explicitly pointing a finger at Matt Thornton, Mike MacDougal, Nick Masset, Ryan Bukvich and Bobby Jenks.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=416

Be warned, it's a painfully saddening and rage-inducing read.

chisoxfanatic
06-21-2007, 01:30 PM
This is one of the first times I actually agree with BP. The bullpen is the weakest link, and I wish we could say good bye to them.

spiffie
06-21-2007, 01:37 PM
This thread is sure to end well.

SBSoxFan
06-21-2007, 01:42 PM
This is nothing new to anyone here, but it's still impressive (err...unimpressive) to see info covering a couple weeks consolidated down to a page of writing. Here's a BP writer's quick summary of 10 of the last 19 losses...which occurred over a span of 24 games. He's explicitly pointing a finger at Matt Thornton, Mike MacDougal, Nick Masset, Ryan Bukvich and Bobby Jenks.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=416

Be warned, it's a painfully saddening and rage-inducing read.

I didn't read it, but how can you possibly point a finger at Bobby Jenks?

JB98
06-21-2007, 01:50 PM
I didn't read it, but how can you possibly point a finger at Bobby Jenks?

Well, he had a bad outing yesterday. He also took the loss in the Saturday game against Houston. Of course, if you watched that game, the Astros got an infield hit, a ground ball with eyes and a blooper that didn't even dent the grass in left field in that ninth inning.

BP doesn't take that into account. They just look at the numbers.

eriqjaffe
06-21-2007, 01:51 PM
I didn't read it, but how can you possibly point a finger at Bobby Jenks?Because he's responsible for TWO OF OUR THIRTY-NINE LOSSES!

StepsInSC
06-21-2007, 01:58 PM
I didn't read it, but how can you possibly point a finger at Bobby Jenks?

He just happened to be one of the handful of relievers who had technically blown leads during that 10 game stretch. I was surprised by the mention of his name too, and I think it's misleading.

Jerko
06-21-2007, 01:59 PM
Bobby has had a few bad outings, but they were in situations where he usually doesn't pitch (8th inning, tie game, 2 innings of work, inherited runners, etc). Yes he's a grown man and should get people out whenever called upon, but he IS human. He's the least of our problems IMO.

StepsInSC
06-21-2007, 02:03 PM
Bobby has had a few bad outings, but they were in situations where he usually doesn't pitch (8th inning, tie game, 2 innings of work, inherited runners, etc). Yes he's a grown man and should get people out whenever called upon, but he IS human. He's the least of our problems IMO.

Undoubtedly. But his name was a toss in at the end of the piece, and he was hardly made out to be the one to blame. I thought the recitation of how those games ended was infinitely more telling than the names thrown in at the end.

stl_sox_fan
06-21-2007, 02:23 PM
A line from The Crow comes to mind when reading this blurb
"I have something to give you. I don't want it anymore. Thirty hours of pain all at once, all for you".(Eric Draven )
The losses hurt less when you endure them day by day, but reading about all of them at once really hurts. But what do you do? You play the game with the bullpen you have, not the bullpen you want.

dwalteroo
06-21-2007, 03:09 PM
Bring back Shingo!

Iwritecode
06-21-2007, 03:23 PM
This is nothing new to anyone here, but it's still impressive (err...unimpressive) to see info covering a couple weeks consolidated down to a page of writing. Here's a BP writer's quick summary of 10 of the last 19 losses...which occurred over a span of 24 games. He's explicitly pointing a finger at Matt Thornton, Mike MacDougal, Nick Masset, Ryan Bukvich and Bobby Jenks.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=416

Be warned, it's a painfully saddening and rage-inducing read.

I can sum up the losses in a lot less words than that.

1. Starter leaves game with a lead or a tie.
2. Reliever comes in and immediately gives up lead by either walking guys or allowing multiple hits. Mostly with 2 outs.
3. Anemic offense is unable to mount a comeback.
4. Game over.

Wash rinse repeat.

I'm beyond getting mad over losses anymore. Now I sit and wait to see what new way they'll come up with to lose.

Jurr
06-21-2007, 04:45 PM
Oh, man. The games I attended in PNC would've gagged a maggot, especially Sunday. The minute Mike Macdougal walked onto the mound, I told my girlfriend and her parents, "Well, this one is giftwrapped for the Pirates."

Boom. Welcome to a deficit. Macdougal exits stage left, head down, cascaded with vitriol from the Sox fans in attendance.

Hawk always said that a bad bullpen can kill a team because all of the squad's work during the first 6 innings can be gone in a flash. It's so true.

wmc
06-21-2007, 04:58 PM
This is nothing new to anyone here, but it's still impressive (err...unimpressive) to see info covering a couple weeks consolidated down to a page of writing. Here's a BP writer's quick summary of 10 of the last 19 losses...which occurred over a span of 24 games. He's explicitly pointing a finger at Matt Thornton, Mike MacDougal, Nick Masset, Ryan Bukvich and Bobby Jenks.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=416

Be warned, it's a painfully saddening and rage-inducing read.

BP forgot to add Aardsma to the finger-pointing, although he is mentioned in the May 30 and June 2 collapses.

If our bullpen was even semi-solid we should have lost 5 fewer games in that stretch. Some of these guys need to go ASAP. Jenks and Logan are the only bullpen guys with ERAs below 4.50!!!

graham5
06-21-2007, 06:06 PM
Surely the offense is equally culpable. We have the worst offense in the majors - and we're blaming the bullpen for all our struggles?

JB98
06-21-2007, 06:12 PM
Surely the offense is equally culpable. We have the worst offense in the majors - and we're blaming the bullpen for all our struggles?

No. We're blaming all kinds of things. Just look at all the threads in the clubhouse.

BP just happens to be talking about the bullpen woes in this particular article.

Lip Man 1
06-21-2007, 06:45 PM
Graham:

Let's put it this way, if the Sox hang on to win the eight games blown by the bullpen with a lead in the 7th inning or later, the season looks a lot different doesn't it?

Yes the offense has struggled by they have had a lot of games where they have put up enough runs to win only to see the bullpen give the game away.

Lip

billcissell
06-22-2007, 03:12 PM
As usual BP (Bi-Polar?) makes some generalizations based on statistics alone and touches on the tip of the iceberg.

Examples:

They throw Jenks under the bus, when overall he's had a very good season to date. Wednesday's 3-run homer was one of the few mistakes he's made all year.

They fail to mention Uribe's critical error that preceeded the 3-run homer in Wednesday's implosion with Jenks on the mound.

Aardsma has continually failed us, but since he apparently hasn't screwed up in the last 20 games he receives no mention in the article. He is as much to blame as the other culprits, yet he slips under the radar.

What about our god awful offense? If we had scored a few runs more in half of these games, maybe the end result is different.

And what about hitting in the clutch with runners in scoring position, or with two outs, or hitting in the last three innings? What about our absolutely miserable execution moving runners over or bunting? And how about our lack of base stealing that makes us a base-at-a-time ballclub?

Everyone knows our bullpen has been awful and has cost us games. But there are other reasons for the sub-par performance. BP needs to look beyond the obvious and spread the blame around.