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View Full Version : *Official* 6-20 Another Day Another Late Loss Postgame Thread


thomas35forever
06-20-2007, 05:01 PM
Without that homer in the eighth, we win this game.:angry:

lowestofthelow
06-20-2007, 05:02 PM
By this time next week we will officially be in last place.

StepsInSC
06-20-2007, 05:03 PM
They way the chips have been falling, I think everyone knew that insurance run was going to be the nail.

crazyozzie02
06-20-2007, 05:03 PM
if the bullpen could only hold leads, we would be in first by about 1000 games. God this is so ****ing frustrating:angry:

whitesoxfan
06-20-2007, 05:03 PM
One step closer to a fire sale.

bryPt
06-20-2007, 05:03 PM
I can't take this anymore.

oeo
06-20-2007, 05:04 PM
-Stellar start by Garland...wasted.
-Jenks was due for a bad outing.
-Nice to see life from the offense.
-That was nice of Uribe to pick one of his days that he didn't feel like playing defense. Thanks Uribe, now please leave town.

Rocky Soprano
06-20-2007, 05:04 PM
Why didn't Ozzie pinch hit Thome for Uribe or for AJ?
Is he really that hurt?

**** this team!

The Racehorse
06-20-2007, 05:04 PM
Great effort by Garland wasted...

*sigh*

*shakes head*

Flight #24
06-20-2007, 05:05 PM
Bullpen of a "contender":

- MacDougal (let's assume pre-season, he was reliable)
- Thornton (1 year away from being DFA'd via trade for Borchard)
- AAAAAArdsma (Cub castoff)
- Sisco (KC castoff)
- Masset (rookie)
- Bukvich (couldn't find a job)
- Prinz (ditto)
- Logan (a complete failure last year)

This was Kenny's "master plan" for 2007? Seems to me more like he was pissed at the scouting staff and decided he wanted one of those top 10 picks.

thomas35forever
06-20-2007, 05:05 PM
I can't take this anymore.
"We didn't start the fire, it was always burnin' since the world's been turinin'..."

PeteWard
06-20-2007, 05:05 PM
if the bullpen could only hold leads, we would be in first by about 1000 games. God this is so ****ing frustrating:angry:

Hah! They can't hit, field, bunt or run the bases either. Not sure I understand you.

oeo
06-20-2007, 05:06 PM
Why didn't Ozzie pinch hit Thome for Uribe or for AJ?
Is he really that hurt?

**** this team!

Why would he pinch hit for AJ? AJ is probably our hottest hitter and I definitely would not want Toby "I can't block for ****" Hall behind the plate if it went to extra innings.

sox1970
06-20-2007, 05:06 PM
By this time next week we will officially be in last place.

Cool. Let's see how bad this thing can get. Why not?

dwalteroo
06-20-2007, 05:07 PM
I can't even watch on Gameday anymore.

Paulwny
06-20-2007, 05:07 PM
Bullpen of a "contender":

- MacDougal (let's assume pre-season, he was reliable)
- Thornton (1 year away from being DFA'd via trade for Borchard)
- AAAAAArdsma (Cub castoff)
- Sisco (KC castoff)
- Masset (rookie)
- Bukvich (couldn't find a job)
- Prinz (ditto)
- Logan (a complete failure last year)

This was Kenny's "master plan" for 2007? Seems to me more like he was pissed at the scouting staff and decided he wanted one of those top 10 picks.

KW's next move, Farmer from the booth to the pen.

peeonwrigley
06-20-2007, 05:07 PM
The Sox should have a $20/ticket raffle for Sox charities to see which lucky fan gets to push down the lever on this team.

http://www.lonestarcowboygear.com/images/memorabelia/dynamite_large.jpg

veeter
06-20-2007, 05:07 PM
I'll never blame a closer who hasn't pitched in a week. Still proud to be a Sox fan. Will take my 'defending the Sox' act to work tomorrow. Stand proud, we will re-group.

CLR01
06-20-2007, 05:07 PM
By this time next week we will officially be in last place.

Maybe but Pods will fix all that. We really miss him.

whitesoxfan
06-20-2007, 05:07 PM
Bullpen of a "contender":

- MacDougal (let's assume pre-season, he was reliable)
- Thornton (1 year away from being DFA'd via trade for Borchard)
- AAAAAArdsma (Cub castoff)
- Sisco (KC castoff)
- Masset (rookie)
- Bukvich (couldn't find a job)
- Prinz (ditto)
- Logan (a complete failure last year)

This was Kenny's "master plan" for 2007? Seems to me more like he was pissed at the scouting staff and decided he wanted one of those top 10 picks.

If the Sox can get Pedro Alvarez with the #1 pick in the 08 draft, this season won't be as bad as I originally thought.

Scottiehaswheels
06-20-2007, 05:09 PM
I look forward to upgrading my seats from 140's to the 130's next year....:D:

roadrunner
06-20-2007, 05:10 PM
Why would he pinch hit for AJ? AJ is probably our hottest hitter and I definitely would not want Toby "I can't block for ****" Hall behind the plate if it went to extra innings.

He must have meant Cintron. Why does he keep coming up late in close games? I can't remember a player I have hated as much.

DumpJerry
06-20-2007, 05:10 PM
Without that homer in the eighth, we win this game.:angry:
But for a lot of things this season, we would be in First Place.:angry::angry::angry::angry:

ZombieRob
06-20-2007, 05:10 PM
Maybe but Pods will fix all that. We really miss him.
Don't forget Ersted

SoxSpeed22
06-20-2007, 05:10 PM
Bring out the Tarp! Cover the field! I can't watch this anymore, it's over! Turn the lights out! Let's get the bulldozers in here and turn this place into a parking lot!
(Major League 2)
:anon:

comet2k
06-20-2007, 05:11 PM
Another unbelievable loss. It's almost -- almost -- unbearable.

I'm not an optimist, but if Pods and Erstad can contribute when they come back, this team has to improve at least a little.

Doesn't it?

thomas35forever
06-20-2007, 05:12 PM
Bring out the Tarp! Cover the field! I can't watch this anymore, it's over! Turn the lights out! Let's get the bulldozers in here and turn this place into a parking lot!
(Major League 2)
:anon:
Well put, my friend.

Foulke You
06-20-2007, 05:14 PM
Another unbelievable loss. It's almost -- almost -- unbearable.

I'm not an optimist, but if Pods and Erstad can contribute when they come back, this team has to improve at least a little.

Doesn't it?
They will improve. They won't turn us into instant contenders but they will at least make us more competitive. Heck, we might even win a series when they come back. I'm going to personally help pack Jerry Owens bags back to Charlotte when Pods is activated.

getonbckthr
06-20-2007, 05:14 PM
What time is it..........ITS GRINDER TIME TIME TIME

MrX
06-20-2007, 05:15 PM
Good to see they're continuing to play as well as they were before I left for vacation a 10 days ago.

CLR01
06-20-2007, 05:15 PM
Another unbelievable loss. It's almost -- almost -- unbearable.

I'm not an optimist, but if Pods and Erstad can contribute when they come back, this team has to improve at least a little.

Doesn't it?

Ersty should be back Friday and maybe Pods too. Let the 30 game win streak begin. :supernana: :bandance: :supernana:

Lip Man 1
06-20-2007, 05:17 PM
Isn't it amazing what a bunt can do once in a while? Imagine that... a big inning keyed by a bunt.

My oh my!

Lip

roadrunner
06-20-2007, 05:17 PM
KW's next move, Farmer from the booth to the pen.

why stop there? 1B Walker 2B Cora SS Ozzie 3B Shines, DH Baines OF DJ, Singleton, (bring back) Raines SP BlackJack RP Farmer

At least they would be funny to watch. (Funny in a different kind of way than the current team which is funny in a pathetic kind of way. The old schoolers would at least be funny in a fun way.)

kittle42
06-20-2007, 05:17 PM
Friday through Sunday, I am going back into my old pre-2005 **** the Cubs mode, as this may be the last series I enjoy attending this season.

Hell, they may be the last games I attend this season, and I still have 17 left in my season ticket group.

As for the game, yawn.

Can we please trade Dye, Buehrle, and whomever else before they go and hurt themselves? The only "exciting" thing left in the season is seeing whom they receive in return.

FedEx227
06-20-2007, 05:17 PM
They will improve. They won't turn us into instant contenders but they will at least make us more competitive. Heck, we might even win a series when they come back. I'm going to personally help pack Jerry Owens bags back to Charlotte when Pods is activated.

See this is the problem with our team and why we will continue to suck in the future unless this organization changes its course.

Yeah Owens is struggling, but we have to find out what we have. Let him struggle, why are we going to trot Andy Gonzalez out there?!

Owens struggled, Sweeney struggled and Anderson struggled...no kidding. They won't learn to hit major league pitching in AAA, plain and simple.

I know the "NEW SOX" aren't allowed to develop in the majors, but too bad, this old, slow team sucks and we need to start worrying about the future. So if Owens, Sweeney and Anderson suck, so be it... so do Cintron, Gonzalez and Mackowiak... and MacDougal, and Dye, and Uribe, and Iguchi.

CLR01
06-20-2007, 05:19 PM
See this is the problem with our team and why we will continue to suck in the future.

Yeah Owens is struggling, but we have to find out what we have. Let him struggle, why are we going to trot Andy Gonzalez out there?!

Owens struggled, Sweeney struggled and Anderson struggled...no kidding. They won't learn to hit major league pitching in AAA, plain and simple.

I know the "NEW SOX" aren't allowed to develop in the majors, but too bad, this old, slow team sucks and we need to start worrying about the future. So if Owens, Sweeney and Anderson suck, so be it... so do Cintron, Gonzalez and Mackowiak... and MacDougal, and Dye, and Uribe, and Iguchi.

You don't understand the greatness of Ersty and Pods either? They are the missing link. Brace yourself for the ride you are about to embark on.

sox1970
06-20-2007, 05:20 PM
They will improve. They won't turn us into instant contenders but they will at least make us more competitive. Heck, we might even win a series when they come back. I'm going to personally help pack Jerry Owens bags back to Charlotte when Pods is activated.

There's absloutely no reason to keep Erstad or Podsednik around even when they are healthy. While I think Owens is a hack, they need to play the young players to see what they can do for 2008 and beyond. The 40-man roster is going to be interesting to look at on August 1st.

kittle42
06-20-2007, 05:20 PM
Oh, and I honestly can't wait for KC to jump in front of the Sox in the standings. It'll be KC's grandest day in years!

getonbckthr
06-20-2007, 05:21 PM
So in other news:
Michael Barrett:He Gone
Kobe moving in at Damen/Madison?
Hawks #1 pick, typical Blackhawk protocol 2 years too late
Rush 11-4, hey someone's winning
Tommie Harris wants Mcnabb

kittle42
06-20-2007, 05:21 PM
You don't understand the greatness of Ersty and Pods either? They are the missing link brace yourself for the ride you are about to embark on.

Erstad has been the missing link since they tried to trade Garland for him in 2001. They were lucky to win without him in 2005.

getonbckthr
06-20-2007, 05:22 PM
You don't understand the greatness of Ersty and Pods either? They are the missing link. Brace yourself for the ride you are about to embark on.
The grindiest bunch of grinders ever to grind before.

russ99
06-20-2007, 05:23 PM
I don't know. I'm actually looking forward to the rest of my tickets this season to enjoy an outing to the park with zero expectations. Just like during most of the 80s and 90s!

If this team can't turn it up a notch for the Cubs, then they all deserve to be run out of town.

Rocky Soprano
06-20-2007, 05:24 PM
Why would he pinch hit for AJ? AJ is probably our hottest hitter and I definitely would not want Toby "I can't block for ****" Hall behind the plate if it went to extra innings.

Because Thome gives you the best shot and winning the game.

**** extras, go for the win!

sox1970
06-20-2007, 05:25 PM
Owens was sent down.

Foulke You
06-20-2007, 05:26 PM
See this is the problem with our team and why we will continue to suck in the future unless this organization changes its course.

Yeah Owens is struggling, but we have to find out what we have. Let him struggle, why are we going to trot Andy Gonzalez out there?!

Owens struggled, Sweeney struggled and Anderson struggled...no kidding. They won't learn to hit major league pitching in AAA, plain and simple.

I know the "NEW SOX" aren't allowed to develop in the majors, but too bad, this old, slow team sucks and we need to start worrying about the future. So if Owens, Sweeney and Anderson suck, so be it... so do Cintron, Gonzalez and Mackowiak... and MacDougal, and Dye, and Uribe, and Iguchi.
By July 31st, if we are still completely out of the race (which we probably will be) I'm all for playing the young guys. However, in the case of Jerry Owens, he can't hit AAA pitching very well. What makes us think he is going to hit MLB pitching? Jerry Owens= Julio Ramirez. Ryan Sweeney and Brian Anderson have way more offensive upside and might even be better on defense than Owens. If we're going to use kids in our outfield, Sweeney and Anderson are the future, not Owens.

comet2k
06-20-2007, 05:26 PM
I've made this incredible offer twice before this season and want to repeat it for the benefit of those who may have missed it:

I'm accepting all free tickets that disillusioned Sox fans want to give away because they think the team stinks so badly. Please send a PM. Thanks, and have a great day! :D:

Foulke You
06-20-2007, 05:28 PM
You don't understand the greatness of Ersty and Pods either? They are the missing link. Brace yourself for the ride you are about to embark on.
OK, CLR...I think you've made your point. :rolleyes:

Foulke You
06-20-2007, 05:28 PM
Owens was sent down.
:bandance::bandance::bandance:

spiffie
06-20-2007, 05:29 PM
If only Anderson were still here, surely everything would be fine. By now he would have hit 35 HR, 60 doubles, 10 triples, and in his dual role in the pen be working a scoreless inning streak of 63 innings. As a celebration he would have been allowed to remove the still-beating hearts from the chests of Podsednik and Erstad like the Aztec priests of old.

CLR01
06-20-2007, 05:29 PM
OK, CLR...I think you've made your point. :rolleyes:

Not enough. People still don't understand the injuries to Ersty and Pods are the cause of all the Sox problems.

ozzie is god
06-20-2007, 05:30 PM
What is the future for the Sox? Our hitters that come up are not ready. Even the ones the were can't miss..Borchard, Reed, Anderson all dissapointed. Why can't KW or the scouting department draft any STUDS? I know the draft is a crapshoot but why did the Sox pass on Porcello? Now the Tigers have in the fold for the future.

Verlander
Bonderman
Miller
Porcello

That is a rotation I would look forward to.

What are we going to get from Gio, Broadway or McCulloch? I love the Sox but it's time to rebuild now.

The Immigrant
06-20-2007, 05:30 PM
Not enough. People still don't understand the injuries to Ersty and Pods are the cause of all the Sox problems.

Don't forget Pablo. He brings a lot of energy, you know.

cleanwsox
06-20-2007, 05:31 PM
Only two teams with less wins then us now. Ugh, stop the hurt!

Palehose Pete
06-20-2007, 05:31 PM
Guh.

That's all I can muster at this point after the one reliable guy in the BP gives it up today.

I'm going to the game on Friday. I hope that it goes better than the last... three weeks? Could be a long and brutal one.

sox1970
06-20-2007, 05:31 PM
Don't forget Pablo. He brings a lot of energy, you know.

Yes, Hawk told me.

kittle42
06-20-2007, 05:36 PM
I've made this incredible offer twice before this season and want to repeat it for the benefit of those who may have missed it:

I'm accepting all free tickets that disillusioned Sox fans want to give away because the team stinks so badly. Please send a PM. Thanks, and have a great day! :D:

Fixed it for you.

aryzner
06-20-2007, 05:36 PM
This year's White Sox team makes me want to vomit. Or drink heavily. Or both. It hurts to watch this team. It hurts bad.

What I do have to look forward to, however, is the United States men's national soccer team being at Soldier Field tomorrow vs Canada in the Gold Cup Semi-Final match. Then hopefully they win and I get to see them in the Final on Sunday.

sox1970
06-20-2007, 05:37 PM
Somebody asking Ozzie if this coming weekend against the Cubs will give them energy.

Shoot me.

BeviBall!
06-20-2007, 05:38 PM
Now Bobby gets into the act. I think our only all-star felt left out so he did his best to fit in today.

PeteWard
06-20-2007, 05:39 PM
This year's White Sox team makes me want to vomit. Or drink heavily. Or both. It hurts to watch this team. It hurts bad.

What I do have to look forward to, however, is the United States men's national soccer team being at Soldier Field tomorrow vs Canada in the Gold Cup Semi-Final match. Then hopefully they win and I get to see them in the Final on Sunday.

Yay. Soccer. :mad:

Palehose Pete
06-20-2007, 05:40 PM
Somebody asking Ozzie if this coming weekend against the Cubs will give them energy.

Shoot me.



:mg:

CLR01
06-20-2007, 05:40 PM
Now Bobby gets into the act. I think our only all-star felt left out so he did his best to fit in today.

It's hard to be different.

Yay. Soccer. :mad:

Soccer always helps me fall asleep at night.

FedEx227
06-20-2007, 05:40 PM
If only Anderson were still here, surely everything would be fine. By now he would have hit 35 HR, 60 doubles, 10 triples, and in his dual role in the pen be working a scoreless inning streak of 63 innings. As a celebration he would have been allowed to remove the still-beating hearts from the chests of Podsednik and Erstad like the Aztec priests of old.

Because all the Anderson/youngster fans really project these guys to be unbelievable this year. You got it exactly right.

I don't see Anderson doing any better than Erstad, and probably doing much worse.

Still anything Anderson learns this year can help him for next year and the future.

What can Darin do for this team in the next 5 years? Not a damn thing. By the end of this year he would have contributed slightly and would be lucky to get another 1-year deal.

It's not about production for this year, but long-term results. If this team is going to suck, I'd rather suck now and develop so we can see results on the field in a couple of years. Why suck with old, slow veterans and utility players?

Great teams have periods of sucking for the use of development. People forget the Yankees were pretty average from 1991-1995 as they developed their draft picks and prospects.

The Braves had to go through a hiccup year in 2006 so they could develop their guys.

The Tigers were one of the worst teams ever but the experience had helped turned guys like Bonderman into great MLB pitchers.

The Florida Marlins should be a great example of rebuilding leading to success. Granted they did it in a cheap, annoying way, but they still had periods of absolute sucking before finally clicking and making the most of great young players.

Palehose Pete
06-20-2007, 05:43 PM
Hey, say what you will about soccer, but at least a soccer game can end in a tie. Seems like an option that the Sox could use right about now...

chisoxmike
06-20-2007, 05:43 PM
Turn the place into a ****ing parking lot. Who gives a **** anymore?

DickAllen72
06-20-2007, 05:44 PM
Why didn't Ozzie pinch hit Thome for Uribe or for AJ?
Is he really that hurt?

Pinch hitting for A.J. makes no sense. He's been one of our few decent hitters lately.

As for Thome, yes he is always at risk of aggravating that back of his. I wonder if the Sox could pay him to waive his NTC. Maybe a team like the Angels would like him as a DH.

Anyway, I wish the Sox would just win the next three games, then start looking forward to '08.

Cellview22
06-20-2007, 05:45 PM
It's amazing how many things are just not going our way. Garland had pitched a gem, could have easily gotten out of that inning if he had made a better throw to 2nd. I know Uribe should've caught it, but still it wasn't a great throw by Garland... and then from there, once again the game is blown. Out of all the games we're losing, most if not all these games should have easily been won, but we throw it away. :angry:

Not too happy with Dye either. Where's his head? Man on 2nd and 3rd, no outs, and he's swinging at balls in the dirt and 2 feet out of the strike zone. :dunno:

I just hope Erstad and Pods can turn this thing around and hopefully get us get back to .500 by the end of the summer and at least end this streak of throwing away games. I still have no idea what's gonna happen first: Sox getting back to .500 or Thome reaching 500. Maybe I'll start a poll. :cool:

chisoxmike
06-20-2007, 05:56 PM
This team isn't even likeable anymore.

sox1970
06-20-2007, 05:57 PM
This team isn't even likeable anymore.

Not at all. I'd keep AJ, PK, Buehrle (wishful) and Garland. Every other veteran can go.

Jjav829
06-20-2007, 06:29 PM
So who else keeps expecting one of Hawk's calls to go like this...

:hawk
"That ball's hit deep to left. Get back there! Stretch! Stretch! *and after it's caught at the warning track* SON OF A ****ING *****! ****!"

He sounds so close to it. Every "dadgumit" seems to have a little more venom to it.

The Immigrant
06-20-2007, 06:33 PM
Every "dadgumit" seems to have a little more venom to it.

LMAO.

This team just might kill the Hawk one of these days.

itsnotrequired
06-20-2007, 06:48 PM
This team isn't even likeable anymore.

Maybe you just need to get to know them?

Sig update time...

Dan Mega
06-20-2007, 06:51 PM
This team hurts my inner child.

Kogs35
06-20-2007, 06:52 PM
So who else keeps expecting one of Hawk's calls to go like this...

:hawk
"That ball's hit deep to left. Get back there! Stretch! Stretch! *and after it's caught at the warning track* SON OF A ****ING *****! ****!"

He sounds so close to it. Every "dadgumit" seems to have a little more venom to it.

sooner or later he is going to slip

downstairs
06-20-2007, 06:55 PM
sooner or later he is going to slip

Notice that DJ lately has been disagreeing with him more and more?

Over/Under on Hawk just beating the crap outta DJ with that bottle of Jack that you know he has stashed under his desk? July? June? Friday?

JGarlandrules20
06-20-2007, 07:00 PM
Nice outing by Garland, I wish the offense could have gave him a little support but I guess that's asking for too much.

Not only another sox loss, but I got badly sunburned. :(:

Jerko
06-20-2007, 07:00 PM
I'll never blame a closer who hasn't pitched in a week. Still proud to be a Sox fan. Will take my 'defending the Sox' act to work tomorrow. Stand proud, we will re-group.

I don't even know what to say. Garland gets pulled after an error, Borchard was on deck till Jenks came in, then they pulled Borch back and the rest is history. No I don't blame Jenks but he DID give up a run in the 9th too. Awful game. I say leave Garland in just to let Borchard bat. The guy's a strikeout machine. Also, men on 2nd and 3rd with no outs in the 8th and we get one run? ***. It's not even worth getting mad anymore. Just awful.

(I didn't read the whole thread so I apologize if I'm repetitive).....

Jerko
06-20-2007, 07:02 PM
Isn't it amazing what a bunt can do once in a while? Imagine that... a big inning keyed by a bunt.

My oh my!

Lip

I know what you're sayin Lip, but there WAS an error on the play. The bunt itself sucked.

tstrike2000
06-20-2007, 07:21 PM
http://www.790thescore.com/790thescoregraphics/ozzie.bmp - Deez game is so hard. We can no hit and we can no pitch.

Mr. White Sox
06-20-2007, 07:26 PM
They way the chips have been falling, I think everyone knew that insurance run was going to be the nail.

Me, at the game, to my friend:
"Just watch. The way this season's been going, Paulie is going to hit a solo HR and AJ is going to strike out to end it."

Close enough.

Tragg
06-20-2007, 07:28 PM
If only Anderson were still here, surely everything would be fine. By now he would have hit 35 HR, 60 doubles, 10 triples, and in his dual role in the pen be working a scoreless inning streak of 63 innings.
Meanwhile, the strategy of stacking the team with utility quality players and not developing (but hopefully not ostracizing) young talent has resulted in a team that is 10 below .500 and dropping. Quite a strategy that's turned out to be.

JB98
06-20-2007, 07:39 PM
The Sox fall to 3-9 with me in attendance this season. It was a beautiful day at the Cell, a nice crowd. Too bad the Sox had to take a dump on the festivities.

Uribe can take a hike if he doesn't want to play defense. Those errors were both ridiculous. He opened the door to that 3-run eighth. Garland deserved better. Of course, Jenks got infected with the disease today too. Bobby has been so solid, which makes it hurt even more to see him fail.

I don't know what to say anymore. I'm hurting real bad inside watching this team. We suck in all areas.

chisoxmike
06-20-2007, 07:41 PM
Maybe you just need to get to know them?

Sig update time...

Introduce us. I can give them four of these :angry: and a few of these :cuss:


:redneck

WhiteSox5187
06-20-2007, 07:55 PM
The Sox fall to 3-9 with me in attendance this season. It was a beautiful day at the Cell, a nice crowd. Too bad the Sox had to take a dump on the festivities.

Uribe can take a hike if he doesn't want to play defense. Those errors were both ridiculous. He opened the door to that 3-run eighth. Garland deserved better. Of course, Jenks got infected with the disease today too. Bobby has been so solid, which makes it hurt even more to see him fail.

I don't know what to say anymore. I'm hurting real bad inside watching this team. We suck in all areas.
Uribe is a DOG! He has no buisness on this team. There was a great caller on the post game show (a bit of an oxymoron, I know) who pointed out "Look, Cintron just isn't that great of a ballplayer, I can tolerate that. But I can't stand to have a dog out there. I can't say that Paulie and AJ and Thome aren't trying, I'm sure they're playing their hearts out, but Uribe is just a dog." To which Rongey said "I can't disagree with you." nor can I. Uribe cost us that ****ing game. That was a good throw by Garland, all he (Uribe) had to do was catch the ****ing ball and you have a runner on first with one out. Instead Uribe watches the ****ing ball go into CF and now you have runners on the corners with NO ONE out. Jenks was due for a bad outting sooner or later, but Uribe sure as hell didn't help matters. Who is our shortstop in Triple A? Honest to god, we might as well call that kid up just to scare the crap out of Uribe. I have no use for him. He has NO buisness in the major leagues. I can not think of a worse shorstop in the major leagues right now. Maybe, maybe Royce Clayton.

JB98
06-20-2007, 08:03 PM
Uribe is a DOG! He has no buisness on this team. There was a great caller on the post game show (a bit of an oxymoron, I know) who pointed out "Look, Cintron just isn't that great of a ballplayer, I can tolerate that. But I can't stand to have a dog out there. I can't say that Paulie and AJ and Thome aren't trying, I'm sure they're playing their hearts out, but Uribe is just a dog." To which Rongey said "I can't disagree with you." nor can I. Uribe cost us that ****ing game. That was a good throw by Garland, all he (Uribe) had to do was catch the ****ing ball and you have a runner on first with one out. Instead Uribe watches the ****ing ball go into CF and now you have runners on the corners with NO ONE out. Jenks was due for a bad outting sooner or later, but Uribe sure as hell didn't help matters. Who is our shortstop in Triple A? Honest to god, we might as well call that kid up just to scare the crap out of Uribe. I have no use for him. He has NO buisness in the major leagues. I can not think of a worse shorstop in the major leagues right now. Maybe, maybe Royce Clayton.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Tomas Perez is playing shortstop for Charlotte. He's a veteran retread. I wouldn't be opposed to giving Cintron the job right now, just to make a point. Alex isn't the long-term answer, we know that. But Ozzie has to show that this kind of bull**** won't be tolerated.

Iguchi sat today, perhaps because of the failed bunt last night. Uribe should sit Friday because of that error.

FedEx227
06-20-2007, 08:07 PM
You don't want to see what our minor league SS situation looks. Let's leave it at that.

As JB said, Tomas Perez is starting in Charlotte alongside Pedro Lopez (.242/.307/.323)

sox1970
06-20-2007, 08:11 PM
You don't want to see what our minor league SS situation looks. Let's leave it at that.

As JB said, Tomas Perez is starting in Charlotte alongside Pedro Lopez (.242/.307/.323)

Pedro Lopez is now in the Reds organization.

FedEx227
06-20-2007, 08:17 PM
Pedro Lopez is now in the Reds organization.

That's right, my fault. So yeah... Tomas Perez... haha.

JB98
06-20-2007, 08:18 PM
You don't want to see what our minor league SS situation looks. Let's leave it at that.

As JB said, Tomas Perez is starting in Charlotte alongside Pedro Lopez (.242/.307/.323)

Lopez has moved on.

I wonder about this Richar that they just acquired. From what I hear, he's more of a 2B than a SS, but I know he has played both middle infield positions during his career.

sox1970
06-20-2007, 08:19 PM
Lopez has moved on.

I wonder about this Richar that they just acquired. From what I hear, he's more of a 2B than a SS, but I know he has played both middle infield positions during his career.

I think they'll stick to 2nd with him based on what I've read about his SS defense.

He got his first hit tonight--a triple. Yes, a triple. It's an actual play in baseball.

FedEx227
06-20-2007, 08:27 PM
I think they'll stick to 2nd with him based on what I've read about his SS defense.

He got his first hit tonight--a triple. Yes, a triple. It's an actual play in baseball.

I think I remember those.

WhiteSox5187
06-20-2007, 08:34 PM
Either way, I don't want Uribe to play short for us anymore. It's clear we're not going to contend, might as well put Cintron there. I'd say trade him, but who would want him?? We may have to DFA him.

Frankfan4life
06-20-2007, 08:36 PM
Bitter disappointment.

DickAllen72
06-20-2007, 08:39 PM
Either way, I don't want Uribe to play short for us anymore. It's clear we're not going to contend, might as well put Cintron there. I'd say trade him, but who would want him?? We may have to DFA him.
I hate the prospect of Cintron playing SS for the Sox more than Uribe.

Cintron, Mackowiak, Iguchi and Dye should all be traded before the deadline this year.

Scottiehaswheels
06-20-2007, 08:41 PM
There is one reason and one reason only I'm willing to give Uribe slack.... When did his batting average really start to dip? I'm betting it coincided with his mother's sickness... It's got to be tough playing with that on your mind day in day out... Since we're out of it for the most part anyways, just play him every day anyways and let him go at the end of the year...

CLR01
06-20-2007, 08:47 PM
When did his batting average really start to dip?


2005 and 2006 :dunno:

Scottiehaswheels
06-20-2007, 08:50 PM
2005 and 2006 :dunno:He was goin pretty well this year though if I remember all the way up until it leaked out about his mom bein sick... Not that its saying much but he was batting .270 or so...

Noneck
06-20-2007, 08:51 PM
I hate the prospect of Cintron playing SS for the Sox more than Uribe.

Cintron, Mackowiak, Iguchi and Dye should all be traded before the deadline this year.


I'm with you totally but don't expect getting much more than a salary dump for them.

CLR01
06-20-2007, 08:56 PM
I don't even know what to say. Garland gets pulled after an error, Borchard was on deck till Jenks came in, then they pulled Borch back and the rest is history. No I don't blame Jenks but he DID give up a run in the 9th too. Awful game. I say leave Garland in just to let Borchard bat. The guy's a strikeout machine.

I don't know, it's not like they brought in Derrek Lee to pinch hit instead of Borchard. Jason ****ing Wood? The guy strikes out just as much as Joe. On paper it should have been a wash.

Iguchi sat today, perhaps because of the failed bunt last night. Uribe should sit Friday because of that error.

There's not a doubt in my mind Uribe will be playing Friday. What did Ozzie say about him at the press conference today?

CLR01
06-20-2007, 09:00 PM
He was goin pretty well this year though if I remember all the way up until it leaked out about his mom bein sick... Not that its saying much but he was batting .270 or so...

He was batting .286 after April in '05, he finished up around .250. Uribe has been on a steady decline since '04. Juan hasn't been above .260 since tax day.

Brian26
06-20-2007, 09:03 PM
I'll never blame a closer who hasn't pitched in a week.

Jenks pitched two nights ago (18th save).

Brian26
06-20-2007, 09:18 PM
I can't remember a player I have hated as much.

:thechoice

Brian26
06-20-2007, 09:21 PM
By July 31st, if we are still completely out of the race (which we probably will be) I'm all for playing the young guys. However, in the case of Jerry Owens, he can't hit AAA pitching very well. What makes us think he is going to hit MLB pitching? Jerry Owens= Julio Ramirez.

Yep. It was painfully obvious watching the end of last night's game that Owens can't catch up to a major league fastball. He's fast as hell, but so was Nook Logan.

Brian26
06-20-2007, 09:22 PM
Turn the place into a ****ing parking lot. Who gives a **** anymore?

Obviously you care a little because you are posting here.

Brian26
06-20-2007, 09:26 PM
That's right, my fault. So yeah... Tomas Perez... haha.

The same Tomas Perez that the Cubs cut in Spring Training. Not an option.

Brian26
06-20-2007, 09:29 PM
I hate the prospect of Cintron playing SS for the Sox more than Uribe.

Agreed. We're probably only two of a handful of people with this philosophy. Even though Uribe's bat has been non-existent and his mental errors are frustrating as hell, I still think his arm at SS and his occasional pop with the bat make him more of a weapon than Cintron.

UserNameBlank
06-20-2007, 09:33 PM
The same Tomas Perez that the Cubs cut in Spring Training. Not an option.
We don't have any "real" options at SS anywhere, so I wouldn't be opposed to Andy Gonzalez/Tomas Perez/Alex Cintron playing everyday. I just can't stand watching Uribe strike out on three pitches out of the strikezone anymore.

Maybe we should do something where we keep a spot on the 40-man open at all times and every home game we can have a different guest or lucky fan play SS for the whole game. After the game is over we'd DFA whoever played and that individual would just go home, unless of course he or she got picked up by the Cincinnati Reds.

DC Sox Fan
06-20-2007, 09:36 PM
why stop there? 1B Walker 2B Cora SS Ozzie 3B KENNY WILLIAMS DH Baines OF DJ, Singleton, (bring back) Raines SP BlackJack RP Farmer

At least they would be funny to watch. (Funny in a different kind of way than the current team which is funny in a pathetic kind of way. The old schoolers would at least be funny in a fun way.)

Fixed it for you :cool: I heard this guy is currently working on getting us that new 3b:
http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/images/2005/08/03/duVw7zzD.jpg

Bulls_Fan
06-20-2007, 09:53 PM
The Sox are just in a no win situation (no pun intended).

We are super old and super slow. Other than Fields we have no young players to lean on. We will have to get some top prospects in trades and hope our young kids in the system pan-out for us to turn it around in short order.

Bleaker days await us in the future. :whiner:

Hitmen77
06-20-2007, 10:28 PM
I didn't read all the posts here. But even without Jenks giving up the 3 run homer, the Sox played very poorly today.

- Two errors by Uribe (one that was very costly and one that we got away with because of bad baserunning by the Marlins).

- Bad baserunning: Uribe picked off. Cintron trying to steal on Olivo, getting caught (of course) only to have the batter then walk.

- Runners on 2nd and 3rd with nobody out. Suddenly 2 outs, no runs yet, 2 strikes on the hitter. We manage to get one run out of it due wildness by the Marlins pitcher and that's all.

You don't play a ****ty game like that and expect to win. This was certainly not all on Bobby.

Tragg
06-20-2007, 10:30 PM
I hate the prospect of Cintron playing SS for the Sox more than Uribe.

Cintron, Mackowiak, Iguchi and Dye should all be traded before the deadline this year.
How is Cintron on a major league roster?

That's in the last week twice that Ozzie has made moves to avoid players he cut; he didn't want Mack to face Marte and today, he sits Borchard by bringing Jenks in. You'd think he'd love to face Borchard.

Hitmen77
06-20-2007, 10:30 PM
The Sox are just in a no win situation (no pun intended).

We are super old and super slow. Other than Fields we have no young players to lean on. We will have to get some top prospects in trades and hope our young kids in the system pan-out for us to turn it around in short order.

Bleaker days await us in the future. :whiner:

I was hoping to see Sweeney return up here instead of them sticking with Owens all this time. Sweeney looked pretty good when he came up earlier. Does anyone know why he wasn't recalled during this latest round of injuries?

chisoxmike
06-20-2007, 10:32 PM
Obviously you care a little because you are posting here.

Of course I care. It seems I and the rest of us care more than the players do.

Brian26
06-20-2007, 11:46 PM
Sweeney looked pretty good when he came up earlier.

He did look good...until pitchers found a giant hole in his swing. Sweeney couldn't hit an inside pitch above the belt.

Does anyone know why he wasn't recalled during this latest round of injuries?

a.) They were still working on Sweeney's swing
b.) more importantly, they needed another CF guy (the only other player who could play CF was Terrerro).

Brian26
06-20-2007, 11:47 PM
I didn't read all the posts here.

It doesn't really take that long to zip through a thread. I read 100 posts, and responded to five or six, in a few minutes.

DumpJerry
06-20-2007, 11:53 PM
When you feel down, read this thread (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=61100). It is guaranteed to bring a smile to your face!

StillMissOzzie
06-21-2007, 12:08 AM
We won free coffee from Dunkin Donuts today! Sadly, that was the day's highlight.

I was there for today's debacle, but we were in the UD, so I wanted to see the game replay on CSN before I added my $0.02

If Uribe's forte is defense, he needs a swift kick in the ass. He dodged one bullet on the bad throw to 1st when the baserunner made the gaffe of turning into fair territory. And that throw from Garland HAS to be caught! And *** was he thinking on that caught stealing? 1) It was a lefty pitcher, looking right at him, and 2) He didn't even wait for a first pitch to gauge the motion. As Hawk said, "You go on 1st motion, you might as well just flip a coin". Of course, when Uribe's defense bites it, he goes 3-4 at the plate . However, the inning we really needed the hit was when he hit a rope to CF to end the 8th.

Bottom of the 8th, Sox get 2nd & 3rd with NO outs and the only run comes from a later bases-loaded walk? PATHETIC!
JD's AB really stunk. Three strikes, three different ways: Watching strike 1, foul off strike 2, swing and a miss strike 3, UGH! Then, Mackowiak manages to hit it to the one place where a run wasn't gonna get conceded.

I thought somebody was gonna keep Jenks in quarantine from the infectious bullpen bug. He was the last effective bullpen guy we had. Of course, it was Uribe's blunder that made that top of the 8th that much harder to get out of.


KW says he's still a buyer? I don't believe it. Back up the truck.

SMO
:(::angry::whiner::mad:

Edit: 2-4 in te last 2 series vs. a couple of NL bottom feeders. Has this team hit rock bottom yet? I am NOT looking forward to the weekend series vs. the Cubs now, unless the upcoming sweep is the front end of a 10-or-more game winning streak.

JB98
06-21-2007, 12:30 AM
I don't know, it's not like they brought in Derrek Lee to pinch hit instead of Borchard. Jason ****ing Wood? The guy strikes out just as much as Joe. On paper it should have been a wash.



There's not a doubt in my mind Uribe will be playing Friday. What did Ozzie say about him at the press conference today?

I didn't hear the press conference because I was on the train back home, but I see Ozzie made excuses for Uribe. That's bull****. If Uribe's going to bat .220 all year, he better catch the ****ing ball.

goon
06-21-2007, 12:33 AM
See this is the problem with our team and why we will continue to suck in the future unless this organization changes its course.

Yeah Owens is struggling, but we have to find out what we have. Let him struggle, why are we going to trot Andy Gonzalez out there?!



It almost seems like some of the players on the 25-man roster, especially Terrero, Gonzalez, and Cintron keep getting play because maybe they will get hot and it will up their trade value. That way, when Kenny tries to do a trade he can package one of those guys (maybe some prospects, too) in a deal with guys like Dye, Crede, Iguchi or Buehrle and get better players in return.

That is the only thing I can think of.

All I can say is that I hope some of the vets re-sign, but we get some high-ceiling young talent in the organization.

JB98
06-21-2007, 12:36 AM
I was hoping to see Sweeney return up here instead of them sticking with Owens all this time. Sweeney looked pretty good when he came up earlier. Does anyone know why he wasn't recalled during this latest round of injuries?

They needed someone who could bat leadoff with Pods, Erstad and Ozuna all being on the shelf. At the time, I agreed with giving Owens a shot. It just flat didn't work.

MetroPD
06-21-2007, 12:38 AM
They needed someone who could bat leadoff with Pods, Erstad and Ozuna all being on the shelf. At the time, I agreed with giving Owens a shot. It just flat didn't work.
I would like to have just one hitter who can hit about .280

Nellie_Fox
06-21-2007, 12:58 AM
I would like to have just one hitter who can hit about .280Yes, that would be nice.

jongarlandlover
06-21-2007, 01:04 AM
This is just pathetic. It's getting to the point where I'm only going to watch the games that Jon starts. And probably Buehrle, too. But honestly, how much more pathetic can we be? Next thing we know, we'll be behind KC.

Also, what the hell was Uribe thinking tonight? First off, trying to steal, and secondly, how did he not catch that throw from Garland? Dear God...

hi im skot
06-21-2007, 01:35 AM
Didn't read the whole thread, nor do I need to.

However, I read enough to see people dogging on Uribe. Yeah, he made a bad throw that was (thankfully) immediately erased thanks to the baserunning gaffe. However, I refuse to get upset for him with the bunt. Garland needed to throw a strike to second, but instead threw it into the baserunner.

Call me a Uribe apologist...that's fine. The entire team (save Garland) **** the bed today. It's the same old song.

Grzegorz
06-21-2007, 05:40 AM
Didn't read the whole thread, nor do I need to.

Garland needed to throw a strike to second, but instead threw it into the baserunner.


That is certainly a different take of that play. Sometimes in life you just have to sit back and "take it".

There really are no alternatives; management cannot pull up the Charlotte Knights to take the place of their major league brethren. The skipper cannot drag the entire team through bunting drills to "teach them a lesson". No, I am not suggesting that the team cancel all the fundamentals drills, but to use these drills as a type of punishment to embarrass them is not necessary.

If this team is not embarrassed by their play then God help them.

KW I am sure will sit back, gain some composure, and then move some veterans for some major league ready (on paper determined by our scouts) talent.

I for one want to see a new middle of the infield in 2008, but for this year we have to sit back and take it.

alohafri
06-21-2007, 07:08 AM
Cool. Let's see how bad this thing can get. Why not?

If we can't be the best, we may as well be the worst.

On the bright side, after this weekend series, there should be no problems waiting for concessions or the restrooms.

alohafri
06-21-2007, 07:10 AM
Either way, I don't want Uribe to play short for us anymore. It's clear we're not going to contend, might as well put Cintron there. I'd say trade him, but who would want him?? We may have to DFA him.

Can Cintron even throw all the way to first base?

WhiteSox5187
06-21-2007, 08:52 AM
Can Cintron even throw all the way to first base?
It's better than Uribe throwing the ball into the ****ing stands.

itsnotrequired
06-21-2007, 09:12 AM
Good grief, Uribe has a couple bad games and people are ready to DFA him. Gimmie a break. Out of AL shortstops with at least 500 innings of work he ranks 2nd in RF and 3rd in FPCT. I wouold take Uribe's defense over about 90% of all shortstops in the entire league.

Hitmen77
06-21-2007, 10:11 AM
It doesn't really take that long to zip through a thread. I read 100 posts, and responded to five or six, in a few minutes.

So, what's you're point? Was there some serious problem caused by me not reading through the entire thread? What was it - can you please specifically point it out? Or did you just have to take the time to post this for no other reason than because you want to make a smart remark?

Hitmen77
06-21-2007, 10:20 AM
Didn't read the whole thread, nor do I need to....



Whaaaaaaa? How dare you!!!! Come on, read EVERYTHING from now on before posting ANYTHING! Now, you have to answer to Brian26.

:rolleyes:

Bulls_Fan
06-21-2007, 10:26 AM
I think calling for the Sox to get rid of Uribe is not a knee-jerk reaction. His defense has taken a nose dive recently and his bat is worse than ever.

He is quickly becoming the Shawn Dunston of the South Side throwing the ball right into the dirt @ first base with Paulie saving him error after error.

I wouldn't DFA (since we have NOBODY to replace him), but if there is a trade to be made then i'm all for it.

A fair question to ask is would Uribe start on another MLB team...if so, which one?

salty99
06-21-2007, 10:35 AM
I think calling for the Sox to get rid of Uribe is not a knee-jerk reaction. His defense has taken a nose dive recently and his bat is worse than ever.

He is quickly becoming the Shawn Dunston of the South Side throwing the ball right into the dirt @ first base with Paulie saving him error after error.

I wouldn't DFA (since we have NOBODY to replace him), but if there is a trade to be made then i'm all for it.

A fair question to ask is would Uribe start on another MLB team...if so, which one?

Agreed. Why not throw Andy Gonzalez out there at his natural position a few times and see what happens instead of sticking him left field.

Chicken Dinner
06-21-2007, 10:50 AM
Oh, and the 13 blown saves this year (6/20) has nothing to do with it.

CLR01
06-21-2007, 11:52 AM
However, I read enough to see people dogging on Uribe. Yeah, he made a bad throw that was (thankfully) immediately erased thanks to the baserunning gaffe. However, I refuse to get upset for him with the bunt. Garland needed to throw a strike to second, but instead threw it into the baserunner.

You're right, I want to apologize to Juan for expecting him to move his glove 3-4 inches to catch a ball. It's was a completely unrealistic expectation and I am sorry. Also for expecting a 6 year veteran to actually be able to somewhat handle a bat. Again completely unrealistic.

itsnotrequired
06-21-2007, 12:00 PM
You're right, I want to apologize to Juan for expecting him to move his glove 3-4 inches to catch a ball. It's was a completely unrealistic expectation and I am sorry. Also for expecting a 6 year veteran to actually be able to somewhat handle a bat. Again completely unrealistic.

Ever since Uribe swiped the last beer from Erstad's clubhouse mini-fridge, you just haven't felt the same about him...

CLR01
06-21-2007, 12:03 PM
Ever since Uribe swiped the last beer from Erstad's clubhouse mini-fridge, you just haven't felt the same about him...

I tried to forgive him but then he went and stole some beef jerky while Ersty was hurt and that was the final straw.

Foulke You
06-21-2007, 06:01 PM
Uribe is not having a good year but that makes him on par with a lot of guys on our team. (Paulie, MacDougal, Dye, Iguchi, etc. etc.) I agree that his defense has taken a nose dive recently but right now, he is our best option at SS. Uribe is a streaky hitter and is at least dangerous at the plate. Despite his poor showing on defense and on the bases yesterday, he did have 3 hits. Alex Cintron is not the answer there. Pre-elbow surgery Cintron maybe but post elbow surgery Alex Cintron is a Royce Clayton clone. Decent range, no arm to speak of, and no offense to speak of. I haven't seen enough of Andy Gonzalez at SS to comment on his ability there but something tells me that Uribe is still a better option at SS. I like the fact that Uribe has a history of providing pop at the bottom of the lineup as he averaged 20HR and 70RBI for a while there. Not a lot of #8 or #9 hitters are going to give you that kind of production. Despite what people think about his value this year, because of that power production and his strong arm, Uribe does have some trade value. I like Uribe but if he doesn't wake the heck up, I won't be opposed to KW exploring his options next year.

WhiteSox5187
06-21-2007, 09:50 PM
Good grief, Uribe has a couple bad games and people are ready to DFA him. Gimmie a break. Out of AL shortstops with at least 500 innings of work he ranks 2nd in RF and 3rd in FPCT. I wouold take Uribe's defense over about 90% of all shortstops in the entire league.
He's awful. I'm sorry. I don't give a rat's ass about that sabermetric crap, he is one of the, if not the worst shortstops in the majors.

itsnotrequired
06-21-2007, 10:32 PM
He's awful. I'm sorry. I don't give a rat's ass about that sabermetric crap, he is one of the, if not the worst shortstops in the majors.

Fielding percentage is a sabermetric stat?

:rolleyes:

Brian26
06-21-2007, 10:43 PM
He's awful. I'm sorry. I don't give a rat's ass about that sabermetric crap, he is one of the, if not the worst shortstops in the majors.

You're telling me there are at least 25 shortstops with better combined defensive and offensive skills than Uribe? Not a chance.

WhiteSox5187
06-21-2007, 10:46 PM
Fielding percentage is a sabermetric stat?

:rolleyes:
Ha, that was stupid. I didn't realize what FPCT meant at first. I've always refered to it (in print) as FLD%. Dumb on my part but when you get down to it, I'm a dumb guy.

I DO think that fielding percentage is overrated as a stat though. The less range you have and the fewer balls you go after HELPS your fielding percentage...for example last year Uribe had a .977 FLD% while Jose Reyes had a .971 and Jeter a .975. Is there anyone here who would REALLY want Uribe over Jose Reyes or Derek Jeter?

WhiteSox5187
06-21-2007, 10:53 PM
You're telling me there are at least 25 shortstops with better combined defensive and offensive skills than Uribe? Not a chance.
Having looked at the depth charts for every major league team, there are only THREE teams that I look at and say "Well, Uribe's better than their guy." And that is the Nationals, the Devil Rays and the Blue Jays. And the Blue Jays have our former starting shortstop...Everyone else is just as good (more often than not better) than Uribe.

itsnotrequired
06-21-2007, 10:54 PM
I DO think that fielding percentage is overrated as a stat though. The less range you have and the fewer balls you go after HELPS your fielding percentage...for example last year Uribe had a .977 FLD% while Jose Reyes had a .971 and Jeter a .975. Is there anyone here who would REALLY want Uribe over Jose Reyes or Derek Jeter?

But Uribe ranks high in BOTH range factor and fielding percentage.

I wouldn't mind seeing Jeter on the team...but it certainly wouldn't be for his defense.

itsnotrequired
06-21-2007, 10:56 PM
Having looked at the depth charts for every major league team, there are only THREE teams that I look at and say "Well, Uribe's better than their guy." And that is the Nationals, the Devil Rays and the Blue Jays. And the Blue Jays have our former starting shortstop...Everyone else is just as good (more often than not better) than Uribe.

So Uribe is the 4th worst starting SS in all the majors? BS. What criteria did you use to come to this ranking?

WhiteSox5187
06-21-2007, 11:03 PM
But Uribe ranks high in BOTH range factor and fielding percentage.

I wouldn't mind seeing Jeter on the team...but it certainly wouldn't be for his defense.
I would take Jeter's defense over Uribe's any day.

As far as my rankings of SS, I have no method. I think FLD% is an overrated stat as is range factor. He can have a hell of a lot of range but throwing the ball into first base stands isn't going to really help matters. It's based largely on how I've seen those guys play (God bless the Extra Innings package). Having stated that I don't like FLD% or range factor (and I've stated my reasons for both) the only other stat is batting average. And Uribe's powerful .218 isn't exactly blowing me away. He is better than Cintron though.

itsnotrequired
06-21-2007, 11:08 PM
I would take Jeter's defense over Uribe's any day.

As far as my rankings of SS, I have no method. I think FLD% is an overrated stat as is range factor. He can have a hell of a lot of range but throwing the ball into first base stands isn't going to really help matters. It's based largely on how I've seen those guys play (God bless the Extra Innings package). Having stated that I don't like FLD% or range factor (and I've stated my reasons for both) the only other stat is batting average. And Uribe's powerful .218 isn't exactly blowing me away. He is better than Cintron though.

So if you don't like fielding percentage or range factor, what stat would you use to help rank a player on defense? Sure, stats don't tell all but other than those two categories, how would you rank defense? You're right about having range and throwing it into the stands not helping; RF decreases with errors.

It seems you are throwing out defense and going on offense only. Shortstop is a defensive position where you want solid defense. Offense is a bonus. Uribe is a better defensive SS when compared to Jeter. I doubt you will find many people saying Jeter has better defense.

Brian26
06-21-2007, 11:14 PM
As far as my rankings of SS, I have no method.

That's apparent.

Having stated that I don't like FLD% or range factor (and I've stated my reasons for both) the only other stat is batting average.

:?:

WhiteSox5187
06-21-2007, 11:17 PM
So if you don't like fielding percentage or range factor, what stat would you use to help rank a player on defense? Sure, stats don't tell all but other than those two categories, how would you rank defense? You're right about having range and throwing it into the stands not helping; RF decreases with errors.

It seems you are throwing out defense and going on offense only. Shortstop is a defensive position where you want solid defense. Offense is a bonus. Uribe is a better defensive SS when compared to Jeter. I doubt you will find many people saying Jeter has better defense.
As I mentioned in my response to your last post I talk to the GMs of the Tigers and Cardinals at least once a year and also Mike Squires who is now a scout with the Cardinals and I know that none of them are big fans of Uribe (but I'm willing to bet that as soon as post this I will hear how one of them has just acquired Uribe in a trade and I will again look like a total moron). I agree that defense is the most important thing with a shortstop. That's why a guy like Ozzie can have a .264 average but play for what? Fifteen years? The thing is for me I don't like stats defensively, I judge for myself based on what I see. I watch a lot of baseball so it's not like I only see the SS of whoever the Sox are playing. But I don't have a method for ranking a good defensive SS (which is exactly why I'd be a lousy scout).

Jeter is still one of the premier shortstops in the game right now, but I'm not going to BS you and say "Oh, he's one of the best ever." And again, I'd take his defense over Uribe's anyday and I would bet you that just about any scout/GM in the world would too. I'll ask them though the next time I see them who do they like more defensively.