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Lip Man 1
06-19-2007, 12:09 PM
June 20, 1926 - In a game with the Yankees that the Sox won 4 - 3, they set the record for the largest crowd to see a game at Comiskey Park before the upper deck was added. 43 thousand are on hand for the contest.

June 20, 1945 - In the second game of a twin bill in St. Louis, a brawl breaks out between the clubs as three members of the Browns along with manager Luke Sewell, charge the White Sox dugout and batter former Marine and batting practice pitcher Karl Scheel. Scheel was verbally giving it to pitcher George Caster as he was being removed from the game. The Sox would win the contest 4 - 1.

June 20, 1973 - Sox relief pitcher Cy Acosta becomes the first pitcher to actually hit for any American League team in the DH era when he strikes out in the 8th inning of an 8 - 3 win over Nolan Ryan and the Angels at Comiskey Park. Acosta came to bat because manager Chuck Tanner pulled Dick Allen after a six run 7th inning and moved Tony Muser from DH to first base. That meant the Sox ‘gave-up’ the DH and Acosta took the spot in the batting order.

June 20, 1980 - Tigers outfielder Al Cowens attacks Sox relief pitcher Ed Farmer. In the 11th inning of a game at Comiskey Park, Cowens ran towards Farmer after hitting a ground ball instead of running towards first base. The two had a melee on the mound. One year earlier Farmer broke his jaw when he was pitching for Texas. Chicago police went looking for Cowens after the game to press assault charges. Farmer is now the radio commentator on Sox games.

June 20, 1986 - In what he admits was one of the two biggest mistakes he ever made, Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf approves the firing of manager Tony LaRussa. LaRussa and his staff simply didn’t get along with new G.M. Ken ‘Hawk’ Harrelson and with the team struggling on the field, the decision to let him go was made. LaRussa who won over 500 games for the White Sox and the 1983 Western Division Championship, is hired by the A’s three weeks later.

http://i9.ebayimg.com/03/i/07/01/66/7c_2.JPG (http://cgi.ebay.com/1975-Topps-634-White-Sox-Cy-Acosta-NrMt_W0QQitemZ8807233134QQihZ005QQcategoryZ60504QQ rdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosti ng) http://i1.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/96/4b/40d0_2.JPG (http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-1981-Topps-Super-Ed-Farmer-Chicago-White-Sox_W0QQitemZ160102333736QQihZ006QQcategoryZ60514Q QrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohost ing) http://i12.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/94/ac/467a_2.JPG (http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-1985-Coke-White-Sox-SGA-Tony-LaRussa-card_W0QQitemZ110107382034QQihZ001QQcategoryZ56117 QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohos ting)

Lip

Hitmen77
06-19-2007, 01:31 PM
June 20, 1986 - In what he admits was one of the two biggest mistakes he ever made, Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf approves the firing of manager Tony LaRussa. LaRussa and his staff simply didn’t get along with new G.M. Ken ‘Hawk’ Harrelson and with the team struggling on the field, the decision to let him go was made. LaRussa who won over 500 games for the White Sox and the 1983 Western Division Championship, is hired by the A’s three weeks later.


Lip

What is the other biggest mistake that JR admits to?

Britt Burns
06-19-2007, 02:13 PM
What is the other biggest mistake that JR admits to?

Good question. He may want to draw from this (definitely incomplete) list:


1. Jaime Navarro
2. Letting Robin Ventura walk away in FA
3. Albert Bele
4. Not pushing for a Camden Yards-like replacement for Old Comiskey
5. Terry Bevington
6. 1994
7. The way he handled Carlton Fisk at the end of his career

feel free to add your own!

Lip Man 1
06-19-2007, 02:17 PM
To wit:

The "Hawk" Harrelson G.M. debacle.

"Eddie and I would talk to Hawk and (Don) Drysdale at length, and Hawk more so, to identify problems in the organization, we were still neophytes in this business and we were impressed with the way Hawk pointed out our problems. [GM] wasn't something he really wanted him to do, but we urged him to help us out.

The mistake was that when you go to a doctor who diagnoses open-heart surgery, you don't have him do the surgery because he diagnosed the problem, you get a heart surgeon. Just because Hawk was able to diagnose our problems did not mean he could solve them. It was a terrible position to put him in, and a year later, he said he wanted out." – Jerry Reinsdorf to the Chicago Tribune’s Melissa Issacson. May 28, 2004.

tebman
06-19-2007, 02:49 PM
June 20, 1980 - Tigers outfielder Al Cowens attacks Sox relief pitcher Ed Farmer. In the 11th inning of a game at Comiskey Park, Cowens ran towards Farmer after hitting a ground ball instead of running towards first base. The two had a melee on the mound. One year earlier Farmer broke his jaw when he was pitching for Texas. Chicago police went looking for Cowens after the game to press assault charges. Farmer is now the radio commentator on Sox games.


http://i1.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/96/4b/40d0_2.JPG (http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-1981-Topps-Super-Ed-Farmer-Chicago-White-Sox_W0QQitemZ160102333736QQihZ006QQcategoryZ60514Q QrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohost ing)

Lip
I was at that game with a group of about 40 people I organized. About half of them hadn't been to a game before, but they got a real show that night. Extra innings, and an inexplicable brawl on the mound.

A surreal evening. When Cowens grounded out, I was following the ball that was being fielded by Cruz at short. Cruz double-clutched weirdly and made his throw, and as I followed the throw to first I saw why he hesitated: Cowens and Farmer were rolling around the mound. Everybody was slackjawed -- what the hell's going on? We didn't hear until later that Cowens was still nursing a grudge from being injured in a HBP from Farmer when both were with different teams.

The neophytes in my group were grumbling to me later that the game took too long. :rolleyes:

WhiteSox5187
06-19-2007, 04:35 PM
June 20, 1926 - In a game with the Yankees that the Sox won 4 - 3, they set the record for the largest crowd to see a game at Comiskey Park before the upper deck was added. 43 thousand are on hand for the contest.

June 20, 1945 - In the second game of a twin bill in St. Louis, a brawl breaks out between the clubs as three members of the Browns along with manager Luke Sewell, charge the White Sox dugout and batter former Marine and batting practice pitcher Karl Scheel. Scheel was verbally giving it to pitcher George Caster as he was being removed from the game. The Sox would win the contest 4 - 1.

June 20, 1973 - Sox relief pitcher Cy Acosta becomes the first pitcher to actually hit for any American League team in the DH era when he strikes out in the 8th inning of an 8 - 3 win over Nolan Ryan and the Angels at Comiskey Park. Acosta came to bat because manager Chuck Tanner pulled Dick Allen after a six run 7th inning and moved Tony Muser from DH to first base. That meant the Sox ‘gave-up’ the DH and Acosta took the spot in the batting order.

June 20, 1980 - Tigers outfielder Al Cowens attacks Sox relief pitcher Ed Farmer. In the 11th inning of a game at Comiskey Park, Cowens ran towards Farmer after hitting a ground ball instead of running towards first base. The two had a melee on the mound. One year earlier Farmer broke his jaw when he was pitching for Texas. Chicago police went looking for Cowens after the game to press assault charges. Farmer is now the radio commentator on Sox games.

June 20, 1986 - In what he admits was one of the two biggest mistakes he ever made, Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf approves the firing of manager Tony LaRussa. LaRussa and his staff simply didn’t get along with new G.M. Ken ‘Hawk’ Harrelson and with the team struggling on the field, the decision to let him go was made. LaRussa who won over 500 games for the White Sox and the 1983 Western Division Championship, is hired by the A’s three weeks later.

http://i9.ebayimg.com/03/i/07/01/66/7c_2.JPG (http://cgi.ebay.com/1975-Topps-634-White-Sox-Cy-Acosta-NrMt_W0QQitemZ8807233134QQihZ005QQcategoryZ60504QQ rdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosti ng) http://i1.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/96/4b/40d0_2.JPG (http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-1981-Topps-Super-Ed-Farmer-Chicago-White-Sox_W0QQitemZ160102333736QQihZ006QQcategoryZ60514Q QrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohost ing) http://i12.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/94/ac/467a_2.JPG (http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-1985-Coke-White-Sox-SGA-Tony-LaRussa-card_W0QQitemZ110107382034QQihZ001QQcategoryZ56117 QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohos ting)

Lip
Firing Tony was bad but I think an often over looked move that was just as bad was when Hawk fired David Dombrowski a bit later. If we had kept him and put him in as GM we would have a couple titles under our belt before 2005.

Lip Man 1
06-19-2007, 05:01 PM
Good point.

Dave was always a very good minor league talent evaluator as well. He built up the Montreal farm franchise which for a number of years was among the game's best.

Lip

Hitmen77
06-19-2007, 05:05 PM
Good question. He may want to draw from this (definitely incomplete) list:


1. Jaime Navarro
2. Letting Robin Ventura walk away in FA
3. Albert Bele
4. Not pushing for a Camden Yards-like replacement for Old Comiskey
5. Terry Bevington
6. 1994
7. The way he handled Carlton Fisk at the end of his career

feel free to add your own!

Oh, not doubt. But, remember the key word in the original statement was "admits". JR would never admit some of those were mistakes.

As far as Navarro is concerned, the Sox way of admitting that was a mistake is to now refuse to even consider giving Mark Buehrle more than a 3 year contract.

jackbrohamer
06-19-2007, 06:08 PM
After that fight the Sox Supporters made up a sign that said "Cowens the Coward" which they held up when Cowens batted.

And just seeing Jamie Navarro's name in writing still makes me physically ill.

DumpJerry
06-19-2007, 06:22 PM
Good question. He may want to draw from this (definitely incomplete) list:


1. Jaime Navarro
2. Letting Robin Ventura walk away in FA
3. Albert Bele
4. Not pushing for a Camden Yards-like replacement for Old Comiskey
5. Terry Bevington
6. 1994
7. The way he handled Carlton Fisk at the end of his career

feel free to add your own!
Ok, I used to agree with the Camden thing, but after having actually gone to Camden, I have to say I prefer Comiskey. When on the concourse of Camden, it's like the Urinal-you cannot see the field. Also, the scoreboard is hard to see.

The biggest mistake: Sportschannel.

Dan Mega
06-19-2007, 07:00 PM
A bigger mistake than 1994? IMO I'm not so sure, they could've won it all that year.

WhiteSox5187
06-20-2007, 12:24 AM
Good point.

Dave was always a very good minor league talent evaluator as well. He built up the Montreal farm franchise which for a number of years was among the game's best.

Lip
Yep, he had Montreal cranking out some great players there. He also built the Marlins from scratch, managed to win a world series in 1997 (he essentially bought it) but then from that team managed to lay the seeds for the core of the 2003 World Series team. And he turned Detroit from the laughing stock of the baseball to the World Series in three years. My dad is really close friends with him and he is a terrific guy, I'd really love to see him or Walt Jockety (another close friend of my dad's) as the GM here one day...maybe even one day soon.

Hitmen77
06-20-2007, 12:12 PM
Since we're talking about Jerry's mistakes and not just his admitted mistakes - I'd have to vote for the whole "Send Harry to the Cubs/Put the Sox on Pay TV" fiasco as his #1 mistake.

Yes, the '94 strike and the '97 white flag trade decimated the Sox ticket sales. Yes, the uninspiring orignial design of New Comiskey hurt the Sox. But the granddaddy of them all under Jerry's regime was putting the Sox on Pay TV. That's $15/month in 1982 dollars just for SportsVision only. This along with letting Harry escape to the Cubs pretty much surrendered an entire generation of Chicago fans to the Cubs.

What's incredible is that Jerry and Eddie only had to look back 15 years earlier to see how foolish it was to move the Sox to a station that most people couldn't get while leaving the Cubs on WGN.

Britt Burns
06-20-2007, 04:46 PM
Since we're talking about Jerry's mistakes and not just his admitted mistakes - I'd have to vote for the whole "Send Harry to the Cubs/Put the Sox on Pay TV" fiasco as his #1 mistake.

Yes, the '94 strike and the '97 white flag trade decimated the Sox ticket sales. Yes, the uninspiring orignial design of New Comiskey hurt the Sox. But the granddaddy of them all under Jerry's regime was putting the Sox on Pay TV. That's $15/month in 1982 dollars just for SportsVision only. This along with letting Harry escape to the Cubs pretty much surrendered an entire generation of Chicago fans to the Cubs.

What's incredible is that Jerry and Eddie only had to look back 15 years earlier to see how foolish it was to move the Sox to a station that most people couldn't get while leaving the Cubs on WGN.

Too true...missed that one on my list, and you are right, that probably is the biggest single mistake JR and EE made. SportsVision was both futuristic and incredibly myopic all at the same time, and the Sox will be paying for the fallout for years to come.