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View Full Version : Have the Cubs ever rebuilt?


1917
06-18-2007, 04:53 PM
I was asking my friend if the Cubs ever just unloaded and started fresh with new talent....like the Marlins or even us with the Kids can play era....he said no and he doubts they ever will because the big draw to Cubs games is "Could this be the year" and if the Cubs put a team of youngsters together and people really knew that this wasnt the year, they would stay away....horrible logic IMO but I could see some truth there...so they will just keep overpaying players instead of sacraficing a few years and possibly make a real team.

johnr1note
06-18-2007, 05:36 PM
Your friend isn't over 40, is he?

The Cubs have certainly "backed up the truck" in years past.

Look at the shift from 1974 to 1975. In that one year time frame the Cubs got rid of aging veterans Randy Hundley, Jim Hickman, Glen Beckert, Ron Santo, Fergie Jenkins, and within a year, Billy Williams, replacing them with the likes of Steve Swisher, Andre Thornton, Vic Harris, Bill Madlock, Rick Monday, and Rick Reushel, all in thier mid 20s. While the team didn't improve greatly on the field, it certainly had been almost completely rebuilt.

But its interesting -- bad teams never seem to be rebuilding in a major way because they are doing it incrementally all the time, until they find success. If you trace the history of the Cubs in the mid 70s, the team never really gels with a regular, set guy at each position (with the rare exception of a few long term guys, like Buckner and DeJesus) until the mid 80s, when the team that won the division settled in. For 3 years (84 to 86) the basic lineup of the Cubs was the same. (The first time the team had that kind of stability since the Durocher years). After being tweaked in 1987, the truck backed up again.

In 1988, Berryhill, Grace, Vance Law, Palmeiro, Dave Martinez and Gossage replaced Davis, Durham, Moreland/Cey, Matthews, Dernier and Lee Smith. Dawson had come in the "tweaking" in 1987. As for the rotation, the transition also happened over the two year 87-88 period, but basically, Eckersley/Sanderson/Trout became Maddux/Moyer/Lancaster. Sutcliffe was the only constant during that time.

That's NOT rebuilding?

WhiteSox5187
06-18-2007, 05:48 PM
Your friend isn't over 40, is he?

The Cubs have certainly "backed up the truck" in years past.

Look at the shift from 1974 to 1975. In that one year time frame the Cubs got rid of aging veterans Randy Hundley, Jim Hickman, Glen Beckert, Ron Santo, Fergie Jenkins, and within a year, Billy Williams, replacing them with the likes of Steve Swisher, Andre Thornton, Vic Harris, Bill Madlock, Rick Monday, and Rick Reushel, all in thier mid 20s. While the team didn't improve greatly on the field, it certainly had been almost completely rebuilt.

But its interesting -- bad teams never seem to be rebuilding in a major way because they are doing it incrementally all the time, until they find success. If you trace the history of the Cubs in the mid 70s, the team never really gels with a regular, set guy at each position (with the rare exception of a few long term guys, like Buckner and DeJesus) until the mid 80s, when the team that won the division settled in. For 3 years (84 to 86) the basic lineup of the Cubs was the same. (The first time the team had that kind of stability since the Durocher years). After being tweaked in 1987, the truck backed up again.

In 1988, Berryhill, Grace, Vance Law, Palmeiro, Dave Martinez and Gossage replaced Davis, Durham, Moreland/Cey, Matthews, Dernier and Lee Smith. Dawson had come in the "tweaking" in 1987. As for the rotation, the transition also happened over the two year 87-88 period, but basically, Eckersley/Sanderson/Trout became Maddux/Moyer/Lancaster. Sutcliffe was the only constant during that time.

That's NOT rebuilding?
I think the fact that Maddux and Moyer have been around so long we forget they were rookies. They certainly were rebuilding and kinda hit it rich with that 1989 team and then after that they tried to get more free agents. Also those guys you mentioned from the 1987-1988 team were playing along side Sandberg (a vet), Dawson (a vet), they had Luis Salaazar in there too...but something that they have never done is gone for a team with lots of speed like we did in 1959, 1983 (though we had some pop there too) and of course 2005. They've always built teams around their ballpark, meaning lots of guys who can hit homeruns and lots of strike out pitchers.

DSpivack
06-20-2007, 12:06 AM
I think the fact that Maddux and Moyer have been around so long we forget they were rookies. They certainly were rebuilding and kinda hit it rich with that 1989 team and then after that they tried to get more free agents. Also those guys you mentioned from the 1987-1988 team were playing along side Sandberg (a vet), Dawson (a vet), they had Luis Salaazar in there too...but something that they have never done is gone for a team with lots of speed like we did in 1959, 1983 (though we had some pop there too) and of course 2005. They've always built teams around their ballpark, meaning lots of guys who can hit homeruns and lots of strike out pitchers.

Sounds like the Sox now.

WhiteSox5187
06-20-2007, 12:15 AM
Sounds like the Sox now.
With the exception of Javy we don't have a lot of guys who strike people out. Under Kenny we have historically built teams around right handed power hitters and that's why we have never been able to catch Minnesota except for 2005 when we got guys who could manufacture runs.