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View Full Version : Piniella opens mouth and inserts foot


Foultips
06-18-2007, 09:40 AM
This just makes me angry :angry:

On the other hand, it might be nice if baseball moved into the future by including more women in its ranks. Do you think a woman could be a good manager? If she had a good bench coach, why not? I would think she would need a good hardened professional baseball guy that would help her with the xs and os during the ballgame. Someone who knew the intricacies in and out of the game.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/17/magazine/17wwln-Q4-t.html?_r=5&ref=magazine&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=login

southside rocks
06-18-2007, 10:06 AM
Gee, somehow it didn't shock me that Lou revealed what an utter Neanderthal he is with that comment. :redneck

The guys at The Dugout had a pretty good time with it, though:
http://dugout.progressiveboink.com/archive/nick138.htm

CubKilla
06-18-2007, 11:46 AM
I don't see the problem with what he said. He's just stating the obvious.

The LA Dodgers have a female assistant GM working primarily with their minor league organizations. Think they hired her with no knowledge of how to evaluate young baseball talent? And don't you think there are people in the organization helping her?

balke
06-18-2007, 11:58 AM
If all the experience belongs to men in the MLB, then it'll men who bring women up to speed and who guide them through the process initially. I don't think its totally neanderthal to say that. Its better than saying they have no place, and blah blah blah.

tebman
06-18-2007, 12:27 PM
Piniella hardly counts as a great thinker. That little interview reinforces that. But as far as women in MLB, I've thought for many years that there's no good reason why a female athlete couldn't be a player at the major-league level. The only reason there hasn't been one yet is because of custom and habit -- girls are directed to softball, not baseball, and so there aren't any young women coming up that an MLB organization might want to sign.

I don't know if a woman will become a major-league player in the coming years, but I'm sure there are many who could if there was a process to let them try.

SBSoxFan
06-18-2007, 12:33 PM
Piniella hardly counts as a great thinker. That little interview reinforces that. But as far as women in MLB, I've thought for many years that there's no good reason why a female athlete couldn't be a player at the major-league level. The only reason there hasn't been one yet is because of custom and habit -- girls are directed to softball, not baseball, and so there aren't any young women coming up that an MLB organization might want to sign.

I don't know if a woman will become a major-league player in the coming years, but I'm sure there are many who could if there was a process to let them try.

Didn't the NHL have a female goalie once (Tampa Bay?)? Physically, however, wouldn't a female be at a disadvantage in regards to batting?

CubKilla
06-18-2007, 01:06 PM
Didn't the NHL have a female goalie once (Tampa Bay?)? Physically, however, wouldn't a female be at a disadvantage in regards to batting?

Manon Rheume was her name and she couldn't cut it in an NHL exhibition against the St. Louis Blues getting knocked out after 4 goals (?) scored against before the 1st period ended, one scored by Brett Hull.

Prepare to get flamed for using "female", "physically", and "disadvantaged" in the same sentence although you're correct. Women have tried to make it in the big leagues over the past 100 or so years at certain points in time but most have failed miserably when put to the fire.

I do remember hearing about a female pitcher back in Babe Ruth's day that struck him out in an exhibition. Don't know if that's true or not though. I never looked it up.

Foultips
06-18-2007, 01:08 PM
I do remember hearing about a female pitcher back in Babe Ruth's day that struck him out in an exhibition. Don't know if that's true or not though. I never looked it up.

They have an exhibit about it in Cooperstown

The Day a Girl Struck out Ruth and Gehrig (http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/history/2005/050402.htm)

CubKilla
06-18-2007, 01:10 PM
They have an exhibit about it in Cooperstown

The Day a Girl Struck out Ruth and Gehrig (http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/history/2005/050402.htm)

Very cool. Thanks :smile:!

Foultips
06-18-2007, 01:13 PM
Very cool. Thanks :smile:!

Well now... he kept blacks out of the game and turns out us gals too....:angry:

Unfortunately for Mitchell, her game against the Yankees turned out to be her last as a professional in organized baseball. Within days, commissioner Kenesaw Mountain Landis voided her contract and declared that baseball was too strenuous for women

SBSoxFan
06-18-2007, 01:25 PM
Manon Rheume was her name and she couldn't cut it in an NHL exhibition against the St. Louis Blues getting knocked out after 4 goals (?) scored against before the 1st period ended, one scored by Brett Hull.

Prepare to get flamed for using "female", "physically", and "disadvantaged" in the same sentence although you're correct. Women have tried to make it in the big leagues over the past 100 or so years at certain points in time but most have failed miserably when put to the fire.

I do remember hearing about a female pitcher back in Babe Ruth's day that struck him out in an exhibition. Don't know if that's true or not though. I never looked it up.

At least I didn't use the word "strenuous"! I was trying to step lightly, but also wondering out loud how much strength plays in hitting a baseball. In golf, don't the professional men consistently outdrive the professional women?

tebman
06-18-2007, 01:42 PM
At least I didn't use the word "strenuous"! I was trying to step lightly, but also wondering out loud how much strength plays in hitting a baseball. In golf, don't the professional men consistently outdrive the professional women?
We'll never know in baseball until somebody tries, but when you think about it realistically, what's the difference? Certainly any number of female athletes could compete in terms of athletic gifts with Nellie Fox, Ozzie Guillen, or many other ballplayers. The automatic assumption that's usually made is because of the average difference in bulk and brute strength between male and female athletes. It's unlikely that a female athlete would be an offensive linebacker in the NFL for that reason. But why couldn't a female athlete with a good eye play second base?

Landis was a narrow-minded toad. Baseball's not too strenuous for women. There's a great story (http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/6573186?print=true) about Jackie Robinson's signing in 1947:

Brooklyn Dodgers GM Branch Rickey couldn't sign Jackie Robinson and break baseball's shameful color barrier without the approval of baseball commissioner Happy Chandler. Rickey went to Chandler's house, and told him his plans. "Can he play ball?" is all Chandler asked Rickey. The rest is history.

Someday I think the same question will come up about some young woman phenom.

DSpivack
06-18-2007, 02:00 PM
Someday I think the same question will come up about some young woman phenom.

I disagree. I think the question will be can she play, not he. :rolleyes::redneck

tebman
06-18-2007, 02:41 PM
I disagree. I think the question will be can she play, not he. :rolleyes::redneck

Touche'! :tongue:

Jaffar
06-18-2007, 02:58 PM
It almost seems like it would have to start at the High School level though because there are already some really great proffessional softball players but I don't think they could transition to baseball at this point in thier careers because it really is 2 different games so I'm not sure where this "phenom" would come from, although there might be women baseball leagues I don't know about.

Oblong
06-18-2007, 03:40 PM
What Lou is saying about women is applicable to any male outside of the game too. That's what he is getting at. Since there are no women in the game already then it sounds worse than it is. THe answer would have been the same if the question was "Could Joe Schmo on internetbaseballmessageboard.com be a manager?"

The career path to MLB manager is a player at some level.

There is no reason why a female couldn't be a GM or President.

WhiteSox5187
06-18-2007, 03:46 PM
It said you had to log into the site to read the article and im not a member!

However as far as women in baseball go, I tried out for this amateur league called the MSL and there was a girl who tried out for shortstop that just put all the guys to shame. She could hit, field, and throw like it was nobody's buisness and was the second pick overall in the draft. However, the top speed in that league was about 65 as far as pitching. It's not outside the realm of possibility that a woman could one day play professional baseball, but it is important to remember that men and women are built different. There are things than women can do that men can't do (like in gymantics) and there are certain things that women can't do (I'm sorry but I have a hard time seeing a a female linebacker ever playing in the NFL). But there are a lot of great female athletes out there. I remember when Jenny Finch was doing a profile on Pods in 2005 for TWIB someone asked Pods if he'd like to hit against her and he said no, when asked why he said "Cuz she'll strike me out." I really do think that one day we'll see a woman playing baseball, but I think that first we'll see a woman GM. That lady for the Dodgers actually got her start working with Kenny and the White Sox. Omar Minaya and Kenny have both sung her praises and have said that she'd make a great GM one day.

SBSoxFan
06-18-2007, 04:03 PM
It said you had to log into the site to read the article and im not a member!

However as far as women in baseball go, I tried out for this amateur league called the MSL and there was a girl who tried out for shortstop that just put all the guys to shame. She could hit, field, and throw like it was nobody's buisness and was the second pick overall in the draft. However, the top speed in that league was about 65 as far as pitching. It's not outside the realm of possibility that a woman could one day play professional baseball, but it is important to remember that men and women are built different. There are things than women can do that men can't do (like in gymantics) and there are certain things that women can't do (I'm sorry but I have a hard time seeing a a female linebacker ever playing in the NFL). But there are a lot of great female athletes out there. I remember when Jenny Finch was doing a profile on Pods in 2005 for TWIB someone asked Pods if he'd like to hit against her and he said no, when asked why he said "Cuz she'll strike me out." I really do think that one day we'll see a woman playing baseball, but I think that first we'll see a woman GM. That lady for the Dodgers actually got her start working with Kenny and the White Sox. Omar Minaya and Kenny have both sung her praises and have said that she'd make a great GM one day.

Yeah, but Kenny sucks as a GM so what does he know?

Seeing a female executive first makes sense as the rise of statistical analysis has certainly leveled that field.

WhiteSox5187
06-18-2007, 06:51 PM
Yeah, but Kenny sucks as a GM so what does he know?

Seeing a female executive first makes sense as the rise of statistical analysis has certainly leveled that field.

I think that some of the credit goes to statisitical analysis, but for the most part it's whether or not someone can judge talent. The lady in LA has been there for about five years now and obviously she wouldn't be there if she didn't have a good eye for talent. Some people have that gift and their sex doesn't matter at all in that field.

ws05champs
06-18-2007, 07:06 PM
I would think she would need a good hardened professional baseball guy that would help her with the xs and os during the ballgame. Someone who knew the intricacies in and out of the game.

You would think that if there came a time in the future where a woman would be considered for a manager, she would have the qualifications and experience that it takes to be a manager. Maybe at that time she would need a "hardened professional baseball woman that would help her . . ."

It would be nice if there was the type of uproar raised for these comments that were raised last year when Ozzie got himself into trouble. It would be great to see Lou take sensitivity training.

Nellie_Fox
06-19-2007, 02:03 AM
It's unlikely that a female athlete would be an offensive linebacker in the NFL for that reason.And because there is no such position. :tongue:

Scottiehaswheels
06-19-2007, 02:12 AM
I dunno if it matters or not but I think a potential hangup would be having a woman either in the same clubhouse as all the guys or having to have her own clubhouse? Probably would also require a female trainer and a host of other female support personel to avoid potential lawsuits of any sort. If the woman is talented enough, I don't see why the added cost wouldn't be worth it though.

IlliniSox4Life
06-19-2007, 03:19 AM
I dunno if it matters or not but I think a potential hangup would be having a woman either in the same clubhouse as all the guys or having to have her own clubhouse? Probably would also require a female trainer and a host of other female support personel to avoid potential lawsuits of any sort. If the woman is talented enough, I don't see why the added cost wouldn't be worth it though.

There are things like that which would definitely have to be worked out, but that isn't the main concern. There are women firefighters, and if fire departments can find the money for separate facilities, then a major league baseball club can do the same.



Lou's an idiot. If what he meant was "most managers are past players, and it would be hard for a woman to become a manager since there aren't any women players", then he certainly said it the wrong way.

And as far as women players, there's nothing stopping them from playing certain positions. There most likely will never be women power hitters because of physical limitations, but physically women could fill a lot of roles in baseball. Most women go into softball though, so I can't see the odds of it happening being good.

Didn't Jenny Finch strike out a whole bunch of major league players in an exhibition? Granted, they aren't used to hitting a softball pitcher, but it is still pretty impressive.

tebman
06-19-2007, 09:13 AM
It's unlikely that a female athlete would be an offensive linebacker in the NFL for that reason.


And because there is no such position. :tongue:

Nice catch! :D:

I think my two mistakes that have been pointed out in this thread illustrate that one of the larger obstacles is the language. The quote I referenced earlier was, "Can he play ball?" and the NFL position I mislabeled should've been offensive lineman.

All we need now are gender-neutral pronouns and we're covered. I'll get right on that.

http://www.ling.gu.se/~dhjelm/picts/linguist.gif

Iwritecode
06-19-2007, 10:35 AM
Didn't Jenny Finch strike out a whole bunch of major league players in an exhibition? Granted, they aren't used to hitting a softball pitcher, but it is still pretty impressive.

Yes. Mostly because the ball is coming in at a completely different angle than what the major leaguers are used to. Also a little bit slower but at a much closer distance.

I found out in high school that just because I can hit a softball, it doesn't mean I can hit a baseball as well. I'm sure the opposite is also true.

SBSoxFan
06-19-2007, 12:29 PM
I think that some of the credit goes to statisitical analysis, but for the most part it's whether or not someone can judge talent. The lady in LA has been there for about five years now and obviously she wouldn't be there if she didn't have a good eye for talent. Some people have that gift and their sex doesn't matter at all in that field.

Is Theo Epstein a good judge of talent? I don't know, just asking. Or is it a combination of number crunching, a little ability to judge talent, and a lot of money?

areilly
06-19-2007, 01:10 PM
Yes. Mostly because the ball is coming in at a completely different angle than what the major leaguers are used to. Also a little bit slower but at a much closer distance.

I found out in high school that just because I can hit a softball, it doesn't mean I can hit a baseball as well. I'm sure the opposite is also true.

Generally slower, but in Finch's case it's the equivalent of 94 mph. I know she struck out Giambi and A-Rod. Bonds wouldn't go up against her because he knew he'd strike out.

Beauty and skills - how could I not fall in love? :cool: