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chisoxmike
06-17-2007, 03:26 PM
Man, we suck.

What's the over/under for the "This team is starting to come out of it, we're going to go on a run." post?

Brian26
06-17-2007, 03:26 PM
:angry: Dad-gumit.

hi im skot
06-17-2007, 03:27 PM
**** you, MacDougal.

And to the guys who can't get a goddamn sac bunt down...**** you, too.

This one hurt.

downstairs
06-17-2007, 03:27 PM
May 22, 2007. The last time the Chicago White Sox won two games in a row.

I'm betting it will not happen again until 2008.

downstairs
06-17-2007, 03:27 PM
Man, we suck.

What's the over/under for the "This team is starting to come out of it, we're going to go on a run." post?

Even if we go on a run, it's meaningless.

We basically need to win a historical amount of games to go anywhere.

chisoxmike
06-17-2007, 03:27 PM
Oh yeah, STOP ****ING BUNTING!

MrRoboto83
06-17-2007, 03:29 PM
Oh yeah, STOP ****ING BUNTING!


I second that, this is the worst bunting team I have ever seen.

Tragg
06-17-2007, 03:29 PM
This is pitiful.

This late inning run leakage by the pen kills.

Vasquez is a poster boy for why BP's pitching theories - Ks are the best measurement of pitcher quality- are bogus.

As a general question, how do you use Mack in the 8th with runners on as a PH ahead of Thome. (even though it didn't matter).

A good team toys with a poor team like the Pirates.

Bring on the prospects - no use playing a new edition of hack at everything slap-hitting utility players over real prospects.

QCIASOXFAN
06-17-2007, 03:29 PM
Man we're bad. I never want to see Macdougal pitch another inning for us, what the **** happened to him anyway?? I know it is only June 17 and we have a lot of season left but I think we are done.

kittle42
06-17-2007, 03:30 PM
Man, we suck.

What's the over/under for the "This team is starting to come out of it, we're going to go on a run." post?

As soon as Patrick134 posts.

russ99
06-17-2007, 03:30 PM
I thought the Sox looked pretty decent today, and the offense is starting to click. Once Erstad and Pods relegate Gonzalez and Terrero to the bench where they belong, this team could get on a good roll.

MacDougal actually made a decent pitch on the 2-run single, Bay just went out and got it. Gotta give the hitter some credit, and what killed us in this game was giving up the run in the 8th, and the botched bunt.

Bring on the Fish. At least we'll get Thome in the lineup.

getonbckthr
06-17-2007, 03:30 PM
I cannot stand the losing anymore. This is what it feels like to be an Oriole, Expo/National, Ranger fan.

QCIASOXFAN
06-17-2007, 03:30 PM
May 22, 2007. The last time the Chicago White Sox won two games in a row.

I'm betting it will not happen again until 2008.:o:Holy **** that is a bad stat.:anon:

Brian26
06-17-2007, 03:30 PM
Oh yeah, STOP ****ING BUNTING!

I thought it was odd that Fields showed bunt to start that 9th, basically giving up a strike for no reason.

Vazquez was in a perfect position to bunt earlier in the game, but just laid down a bad one that turned into a DP.

kittle42
06-17-2007, 03:31 PM
I cannot stand the losing anymore. This is what it feels like to be an Oriole, Expo/National, Ranger fan.

Correct, and anyone thinking this team "is still in it" is as silly as any fan of those teams who think their team "is still in it."

Cellview22
06-17-2007, 03:31 PM
Midway through this game, when we miraculously got 5 hits in one inning, I was thinking we could easily be 8.5 games back after today, and now back to reality: 10.5 games back. :angry:

And why in the world is MacDougal back? Why send him down to Charlotte if you're gonna bring him right back up? Unbelievable! :angry::angry::angry:

Patrick134
06-17-2007, 03:32 PM
The offense is definitely back. A good run will start very soon.

kittle42
06-17-2007, 03:32 PM
And why in the world is MacDougal back? Why send him down to Charlotte if you're gonna bring him right back up? Unbelievable! :angry::angry::angry:

For the same reason AAArdsma is back - who the hell else is there? For god's sake, Bukvich is still on the major league squad!

chisoxmike
06-17-2007, 03:33 PM
The offense is definitely back. A good run will start very soon.


:dumbass:

Patrick134
06-17-2007, 03:33 PM
For the same reason AAArdsma is back - who the hell else is there? For god's sake, Bukvich is still on the major league squad!

Bukvich pitched a very solid inning last night.

CLR01
06-17-2007, 03:33 PM
1-5 is better than 0-6. Things are looking up, any day now.

Cellview22
06-17-2007, 03:33 PM
As long as MacDougal and Aardsma are in the bullpen, we're not going on any type of run.

Brian26
06-17-2007, 03:33 PM
Vasquez is a poster boy for why BP's pitching theories - Ks are the best measurement of pitcher quality- are bogus.

Vazquez is mind-boggling. He has shown no killer instinct whatsover and can't get a big-out to save his life. He's had two incredible games in Toronto over the past year and a half. Other than that, he's been at best mediocre.

aryzner
06-17-2007, 03:33 PM
Please stop saying "the offense is back" just because we scored a decent amount of runs in one game.

I'll only believe it when we do that in like 7-8 consecutive games.

Law11
06-17-2007, 03:34 PM
Yeh Mac blows but Logan is in there to get 1 guy out and goes 2-0 having to just lay one in there and of course it gets smacked..

kittle42
06-17-2007, 03:34 PM
The offense is definitely back. A good run will start very soon.

What is my prize?

By the way, I asked in the game thread whether your rosier-than-rose-colored posts were real or just a character you're playing out. I went back over your posts from the past few months, and if you're a character, you've really been working at it a long time! Kudos to you, sir.

MDF3530
06-17-2007, 03:35 PM
That's it. We're done. Will the last person to leave please turn off the lights and lock up?

nsolo
06-17-2007, 03:35 PM
In the off-season and during spring training, we heard how the team was going to concentrate of fundamentals. The bottom line is we still can't bunt, and IMO, its stupid to keep trying. To keep trying to do the same thing and expecting different results is not working.

Speaking of spring training, at that time, did anyone else have a bad feeling despite all the Ozzie talk that "those game didn't count"?

At this point, all I'm looking forward to is a competitive team. My expectations are low.

Happy Fathers Day.

Mr. White Sox
06-17-2007, 03:35 PM
Vazquez is mind-boggling. He has shown no killer instinct whatsover and can't get a big-out to save his life. He's had two incredible games in Toronto over the past year and a half. Other than that, he's been at best mediocre.

What I would give for a time machine and a hand-written note by Present-Day-Kenny to give to Two-Years-Ago-Kenny: DON'T TRADE CHRIS YOUNG.

Patrick134
06-17-2007, 03:36 PM
What is my prize?

By the way, I asked in the game thread whether your rosier-than-rose-colored posts were real or just a character you're playing out. I went back over your posts from the past few months, and if you're a character, you've really been working at it a long time! Kudos to you, sir.


The next few months will prove me right. I can't guarrantee a sox post season appearance this year, but they'll be back in the race in a major way soon.

Cellview22
06-17-2007, 03:37 PM
That's it. We're done. Will the last person to leave please turn off the lights and lock up?

Keep the lights on; a few of us will stick around! :D:

Brian26
06-17-2007, 03:37 PM
What I would give for a time machine and a hand-written note by Present-Day-Kenny to give to Two-Years-Ago-Version-Kenny: DON'T TRADE CHRIS YOUNG.

Eh. I'm not even mad about that, although I thought El Duque's presence on the Sox was highly underrated, even with the suspect shoulder. I'm just disappointed they inked Vazquez to a new contract before extending Garland or Buehrle's.

Mr. White Sox
06-17-2007, 03:37 PM
The next few months will prove me right. I can't guarrantee a sox post season appearance this year, but they'll be back in the race in a major way soon.

Which race? If you mean Go-Kart races at the local amusement park in October, then yes, I agree.

kittle42
06-17-2007, 03:37 PM
The next few months will prove me right. I can't guarrantee a sox post season appearance this year, but they'll be back in the race in a major way soon.

Well played.

CLR01
06-17-2007, 03:38 PM
The next few months will prove me right. I can't guarrantee a sox post season appearance this year, but they'll be back in the race in a major way soon.

I see you've graduated from bong and bottle to crack pipe and needles.

kittle42
06-17-2007, 03:38 PM
Eh. I'm not even mad about that, although I thought El Duque's presence on the Sox was highly underrated, even with the suspect shoulder. I'm just disappointed they inked Vazquez to a new contract before extending Garland or Buehrle's.

That might just be Kenny's worst move in recent years.

CLR01
06-17-2007, 03:39 PM
What I would give for a time machine and a hand-written note by Present-Day-Kenny to give to Two-Years-Ago-Kenny: DON'T TRADE CHRIS YOUNG.


Just what this teams needs, another light hitting outfielder who gets on base less than 30% of the time.

DrCrawdad
06-17-2007, 03:39 PM
I say the trading begins immediately after the series with the Cubbies.

Brian26
06-17-2007, 03:40 PM
That might just be Kenny's worst move in recent years.

Yep, moreso than any trade he's made. That's $12 million a year that could have gone towards Buehrle or Garland. I'd much rather have either of those guys locked up with Haeger in the starting rotation than having Vazquez and Haeger.

Mr. White Sox
06-17-2007, 03:41 PM
Just what this teams needs, another light hitting outfielder who gets on base less than 30% of the time.

better than Mackowiak, Owens, or Anderson (at this point)

kittle42
06-17-2007, 03:41 PM
Yep, moreso than any trade he's made. That's $12 million a year that could have gone towards Buehrle or Garland. I'd much rather have either of those guys locked up with Haeger in the starting rotation than having Vazquez and Haeger.

Haeger's name really needs to stop being mentioned. He is not a viable major league starter.

Tragg
06-17-2007, 03:41 PM
The offense is definitely back. A good run will start very soon. Good point. And the fact that this offensive explosion was against the Pirate pitching, makes me even more confident that it will last.

wsoxfan
06-17-2007, 03:41 PM
only thing remotely positive has been Josh Field's hitting lately, other than that it's hard to watch this team...

Brian26
06-17-2007, 03:42 PM
Just what this teams needs, another light hitting outfielder who gets on base less than 30% of the time.

Don't be seduced by his power numbers either. Somehow he's got eight homers already, but his average is pedestrian and he's already starting to look like he's injury prone in a Pods sort of way.

kittle42
06-17-2007, 03:42 PM
better than Mackowiak, Owens, or Anderson (at this point)

Those shouldn't be your basis of comparison. We shouldn't want any of them, including Young.

Patrick134
06-17-2007, 03:42 PM
Haeger's name really needs to stop being mentioned. He is not a viable major league starter.


If he could eat up innings and go .500 he'd be a valuable 5 starter.

kittle42
06-17-2007, 03:43 PM
Good point. And the fact that this offensive explosion was against the Pirate pitching, makes me even more confident that it will last.

I'm glad I'm not the only one having fun with this.

chisoxmike
06-17-2007, 03:43 PM
That might just be Kenny's worst move in recent years.


I hated the Vazquez deal the day it happened, and still do. It's amazing to me the people that overrate him and think he's going to be a 20-game winner and anchor our staff. Its mind-boggling. He's shown us nothing. He never shown anybody anything. Also, it's truly amazing to me that Buehrle may not be signed long term and Vazquez is. *** Kenny?

Brian26
06-17-2007, 03:43 PM
Haeger's name really needs to stop being mentioned. He is not a viable major league starter.

I was just throwing a name out there as an example for a 5th starter.

As for knuckle-ballers in general, Wakefield somehow is still hanging around the league. As a 5th starter, Haeger might not be a terrible option. He doesn't need to be an ace.

Tragg
06-17-2007, 03:43 PM
only thing remotely positive has been Josh Field's hitting lately, other than that it's hard to watch this team...
Anythime Dye gets 2 or more hits, that brings us closer to a real legitimate prospect in a month or 2. So Dye's day was a positive.

nsolo
06-17-2007, 03:44 PM
I say the trading begins immediately after the series with the Cubbies.

Why wait that long? I'm p****d and want a cookie right now!:angry:

kittle42
06-17-2007, 03:44 PM
If he could eat up innings and go .500 he'd be a valuable 5 starter.

I have to now step back and applaud. If anyone read the game thread, this post shows the comedic genius of the Patrick134 character.

I love it!

Patrick134
06-17-2007, 03:44 PM
Anythime Dye gets 2 or more hits, that brings us closer to a real legitimate prospect in a month or 2. So Dye's day was a positive.


With the whole team slumping, oher teams may also think that JD just needs a change of scenery.

chisoxmike
06-17-2007, 03:44 PM
If he could eat up innings and go .500 he'd be a valuable 5 starter.

Who's going to catch him? A.J. can't...

Mr. White Sox
06-17-2007, 03:45 PM
Those shouldn't be your basis of comparison. We shouldn't want any of them, including Young.

I guess I just like Young as a prospect then; he's shown more in his first full major league season than most of the White Sox rookies, although Fields is starting to look like a quality hitter. I'm not a fan of his 8 BB's in over 200 AB's though. That's kind of ugly in a Francoeurian sense.

CLR01
06-17-2007, 03:45 PM
better than Mackowiak, Owens, or Anderson (at this point)


Or more of the same anyway.

Paulwny
06-17-2007, 03:46 PM
I have to now step back and applaud. If anyone read the game thread, this post shows the comedic genius of the Patrick134 character.

I love it!

Yep, he was very entertaining in the game thread. :D:

TheOldRoman
06-17-2007, 03:46 PM
The offense is definitely back. A good run will start very soon.
No, that is Walkerball at its finest. The offense is not back. We will get 7 one day, 3 the next, and 2 the game after that. Average it out, and it is four runs per game, which is almost respectable. However, Walker offenses are as inconsistant as they come, and stats mean jack **** with them. And the worst part is that they are doing this against horrible pitching. We are facing guys with ERAs of 6 in the NL. They should be crushed, but have been having career games (though Duke didn't today). What about an offense that scores in two innings makes you think they are back?

Brian26
06-17-2007, 03:50 PM
Yep, he was very entertaining in the game thread. :D:

Patrick rules! :thumbsup:

Noneck
06-17-2007, 03:51 PM
Yeh Mac blows but Logan is in there to get 1 guy out and goes 2-0 having to just lay one in there and of course it gets smacked..


And lets not let Masset off the hook either.

Brian26
06-17-2007, 03:51 PM
No, that is Walkerball at its finest. The offense is not back. We will get 7 one day, 3 the next, and 2 the game after that. Average it out, and it is four runs per game, which is almost respectable. However, Walker offenses are as inconsistant as they come, and stats mean jack **** with them. And the worst part is that they are doing this against horrible pitching. We are facing guys with ERAs of 6 in the NL. They should be crushed, but have been having career games (though Duke didn't today). What about an offense that scores in two innings makes you think they are back?

:fireward

PeoriaSoxFan
06-17-2007, 03:54 PM
Midway through this game, when we miraculously got 5 hits in one inning, I was thinking we could easily be 8.5 games back after today, and now back to reality: 10.5 games back. :angry:

And why in the world is MacDougal back? Why send him down to Charlotte if you're gonna bring him right back up? Unbelievable! :angry::angry::angry:

He did pitch a whole 3 1/3 innings down there. I am sure that was more than plenty of work to get things turned around. The sad thing is that everyone else in the bullpen sucks just as bad.

PeoriaSoxFan
06-17-2007, 03:55 PM
I hated the Vazquez deal the day it happened, and still do. It's amazing to me the people that overrate him and think he's going to be a 20-game winner and anchor our staff. Its mind-boggling. He's shown us nothing. He never shown anybody anything. Also, it's truly amazing to me that Buehrle may not be signed long term and Vazquez is. *** Kenny?

Was thinking the same thing today. How does this guy get signed to an $11MM +/yr contract extension? This guy haz ZERO killer instinct.

Lip Man 1
06-17-2007, 03:56 PM
Just when you think you've seen it all from these guys comes bunting into not one, but two double plays.

And that trip to the minors hasn't appeared to have done MacDougal any good has it?

Flight is correct in his previous comments about management paying 'Lip Service' (no pun intended) to fundamentals but in five years doing nothing about them.

Lip

TheOldRoman
06-17-2007, 03:57 PM
Just what this teams needs, another light hitting outfielder who gets on base less than 30% of the time.You obviously don't know Chris Young. He scales tall buildings in single leaps. He is going to be a career .430 hitter. He is so good he can play the entire outfield by himself, allowing us to use 8 infielders. And, we know that all from never having seen him play! Truth be told, we are all prasing him because we need something to ***** about. People wanted Anderson's head, but if he would have been traded, he is the next Willie Mays (the title Young now has). The genius of it is that, with every base hit Young gets, we get to beat our chest and exclaim how genius we are. We say nothing during slumps. We are all smarter than Ken Williams, and need to show it on a regular basis.

If the Sox were run by a consortium of WSIers and the great minds at Soxtalk, we would go 162-0.

Tragg
06-17-2007, 03:58 PM
Patrick rules! :thumbsup:

My favorite was (paraphrasing) "Thome v Marte wasn't a matchup we wanted".

Ozzie even puts his utility hitters higher on the pinch hitting heirarchy than the Thome, et al hitters. We trade Marte for Rob M and then we won't use Thome against a pitcher we thought so little of that we traded him for Rob M? Or were we trying to prove that Rob M is better than Marte? Either way, Sox lose.

Brian26
06-17-2007, 04:03 PM
My favorite was (paraphrasing) "Thome v Marte wasn't a matchup we wanted".

Ozzie even puts his utility hitters higher on the pinch hitting heirarchy than the Thome, et al hitters. We trade Marte for Rob M and then we won't use Thome against a pitcher we thought so little of that we traded him for Rob M? Or were we trying to prove that Rob M is better than Marte? Either way, Sox lose.

If Thome's ball goes three feet longer or if that PNC leftfield wall was 12" taller, Ozzie looks like a genius there too. It's fun to second-guess these decisions.

My only comment is that Marte would look great in the Sox pen right now, and, admittedly, that's even a second-guess comment.

Frater Perdurabo
06-17-2007, 04:13 PM
Eh. I'm not even mad about that, although I thought El Duque's presence on the Sox was highly underrated, even with the suspect shoulder. I'm just disappointed they inked Vazquez to a new contract before extending Garland or Buehrle's.

With 20/20 hindsight, I too think the Vazquez deal was a mistake (I opposed it at the time, too). McCarthy would have been able to start and El Duque would have been quite good out of the pen. Vizcaino would have eaten innings in the pen, too. Plus, Young could have been called up when Anderson struggled, so Mackowiak's CF butchery would not have cost the Sox as many games as it did. There are so many variables, but given that they finished only six wins short, I think the Sox would have made the playoffs last year had they not made the Vazquez deal.

Also, without Vazquez on the books, KW could have put that money into an extension for Buehrle before the 2006 season, and after 2006 still could have made the Garcia and McCarthy trades. Yes, two-fifths of the rotation would be occupied by youngsters (Danks and Floyd/Heager). But with another playoff run likely taking place in 2006 and thus bringing in more revenues, plus Chris Young in the OF, not signing Pods and Erstad could have allowed to Sox to sign Gary Matthews Jr. How good would his 12 doubles, 2 triples, 9 homers, .280 AVG and .337 OBP look out of the leadoff spot right now?

FedEx227
06-17-2007, 04:13 PM
1-5 is better than 0-6. Things are looking up, any day now.

Dude when the weather warms up I think this offensive will as well.

Plus their just tired from the 2005 postseason, played a lot of extra games.

Patrick134
06-17-2007, 04:14 PM
Patrick rules! :thumbsup:

The focus shouldn't be on me, it should be on this ballclub. I refuse to take any credit for the offenses' resurgance, or for the march back into the divisional race that is going to take place.

Tragg
06-17-2007, 04:14 PM
If Thome's ball goes three feet longer or if that PNC leftfield wall was 12" taller, Ozzie looks like a genius there too. It's fun to second-guess these decisions.

I don't think it's second guessing. 8th inning, down 2, 2 on and we choose a poor hitter, while leaving an elite hitter on the bench. What's the argument for that?
I could see it if the bases were clear - in that case, there's nothing to be lost waiting until the 9th to see if a higher leverage situation is presented for the elite hitter. But 2 were on.
I would bet that Cintron has the most pinch at bats on the team this year.

Brian26
06-17-2007, 04:17 PM
I would bet that Cintron has the most pinch at bats on the team this year.

Trust me, I'm not defending Cintron by any means. Also, Hawk announced that AJ was on deck before Ozzie chose Cintron. I'm not sure if that was a mistake by Hawk or a last-second change by Ozzie, but it's odd that he also chose Cintron in front of AJ in addition to Thome.

Noneck
06-17-2007, 04:18 PM
Just when you think you've seen it all from these guys comes bunting into not one, but two double plays.

And that trip to the minors hasn't appeared to have done MacDougal any good has it?

Flight is correct in his previous comments about management paying 'Lip Service' (no pun intended) to fundamentals but in five years doing nothing about them.

Lip

I totally agree, I wish Cora would earn his keep by teaching the team how to bunt, Its been awhile but I think he was a good bunter in his day. I don't remember Skipper Oz being able to bunt at all.

Paulwny
06-17-2007, 04:21 PM
I don't remember Skipper Oz being able to bunt at all.


Ozzie was actually pretty good, 141 sac bunts in 16 seasons.

Patrick134
06-17-2007, 04:22 PM
Ozzie was actually pretty good, 141 sac bunts in 16 seasons.

I believe 136 of those were swinging though. Generous scorekeeping.

Frater Perdurabo
06-17-2007, 04:23 PM
I totally agree, I wish Cora would earn his keep by teaching the team how to bunt, Its been awhile but I think he was a good bunter in his day. I don't remember Skipper Oz being able to bunt at all.

You're forgetting that coaches are not there to do anything other than play cards and make the manager happy. Walker focuses on the card games (have you seen his cornucopia of card tricks?). Cora's main responsibility is to wash and wax Ozzie's car.

All in all, they are all there to make Ozzie looks good. Baines is the best of the bunch - and probably much better than Ozzie - but he'll never tell you that because he the Sox own "Silent Cal" Coolidge. That's the only reason his superiority is tolerated. If he said more than "good morning" or "good night," rest assured he's be gone by now.

Tragg
06-17-2007, 04:26 PM
With 20/20 hindsight, I too think the Vazquez deal was a mistake (I opposed it at the time, too).
Ozzie and/or Kenny love these pitchers with "Stuff". And he has that.

He's got more than enough talent to be a really good pitcher. Gotta pull it out of him somehow. Perhaps just leave his rear in there through the 8th for a couple of games....and make him do his own head-hunting when the situation warrants.

Frater Perdurabo
06-17-2007, 04:29 PM
Ozzie and/or Kenny love these pitchers with "Stuff". And he has that.

He's got more than enough talent to be a really good pitcher. Gotta pull it out of him somehow. Perhaps just leave his rear in there through the 8th for a couple of games....and make him do his own head-hunting when the situation warrants.

Maybe with the season all but flushed down the crapper, the Sox can start to experiment and actually let Vazquez through a complete game. If he gives up 16 runs, so what? Maybe he'll learn something - like his arm won't hurt as much the next day if he pitches smarter and allows himself to get better results yet throw fewer pitches (like Buehrle).

Bulls_Fan
06-17-2007, 04:31 PM
I was openly against the Javier signing the minute it happened. Fans were saying, "This is the going market for a .500 pitcher....He has the stuff to be a 20-game winner...In Kenny we Trusty."

Signing a subpar pitcher close to 12/million a year is a tragic mistake. You really have to question the way Kenny has been using our budget. 100 million dollar payroll and we don't have our Ace Pitcher and Dye re-signed!!!

Brian26
06-17-2007, 04:34 PM
100 million dollar payroll and we don't have our Ace Pitcher and Dye re-signed!!!

Worry about re-signing the ace pitcher. Re-signing Dye could be a worse use of funds than the Vazquez contract.

The Immigrant
06-17-2007, 04:35 PM
With 20/20 hindsight, I too think the Vazquez deal was a mistake (I opposed it at the time, too). McCarthy would have been able to start and El Duque would have been quite good out of the pen. Vizcaino would have eaten innings in the pen, too. Plus, Young could have been called up when Anderson struggled, so Mackowiak's CF butchery would not have cost the Sox as many games as it did. There are so many variables, but given that they finished only six wins short, I think the Sox would have made the playoffs last year had they not made the Vazquez deal.

Also, without Vazquez on the books, KW could have put that money into an extension for Buehrle before the 2006 season, and after 2006 still could have made the Garcia and McCarthy trades. Yes, two-fifths of the rotation would be occupied by youngsters (Danks and Floyd/Heager). But with another playoff run likely taking place in 2006 and thus bringing in more revenues, plus Chris Young in the OF, not signing Pods and Erstad could have allowed to Sox to sign Gary Matthews Jr. How good would his 12 doubles, 2 triples, 9 homers, .280 AVG and .337 OBP look out of the leadoff spot right now?

I've read this post three times now and still don't see the part where you trade PK to the Angels. You're slipping, Frater. :tongue:

The Immigrant
06-17-2007, 04:37 PM
The focus shouldn't be on me, it should be on this ballclub. I refuse to take any credit for the offenses' resurgance, or for the march back into the divisional race that is going to take place.

:worship:

This person has officially entered the pantheon of trolling.

whitesoxfan
06-17-2007, 04:39 PM
This is getting real old. What's even more annoying is how I didn't even care that we lost. This season is dead.

ArkanSox
06-17-2007, 05:08 PM
I caught most of this gem on DirecTv. Missed the baserunners thrown out at third, but I did see the doubleplay bunts and a couple of "bad decision" defensive tosses. At one point, the Pittsburg commentator said that the Sox lack of hitting this year probably isn't the true story of their collapse, that they just don't play smart baseball. It's frustrating, but I have to agree with him. As a fan, they have been brutal to watch this year.

kittle42
06-17-2007, 05:14 PM
I was openly against the Javier signing the minute it happened. Fans were saying, "This is the going market for a .500 pitcher....He has the stuff to be a 20-game winner...In Kenny we Trusty."

Signing a subpar pitcher close to 12/million a year is a tragic mistake. You really have to question the way Kenny has been using our budget. 100 million dollar payroll and we don't have our Ace Pitcher and Dye re-signed!!!


A lot of people here (most) crapped on anything negative anyone had to say about Williams after 2005 (and still do), despite his many questionable moves since then.

oeo
06-17-2007, 05:19 PM
I was openly against the Javier signing the minute it happened. Fans were saying, "This is the going market for a .500 pitcher....He has the stuff to be a 20-game winner...In Kenny we Trusty."

Signing a subpar pitcher close to 12/million a year is a tragic mistake. You really have to question the way Kenny has been using our budget. 100 million dollar payroll and we don't have our Ace Pitcher and Dye re-signed!!!

Javy took a pay-cut and it is market value. People whine when they don't spend money, and whine when they do...it's lose-lose for the Sox, isn't it?

The mother****er still pisses me off, though. And for someone against the signing of Vazquez, you want to overpay for the declining Jermaine Dye? No thank you.

Bulls_Fan
06-17-2007, 05:41 PM
Javy took a pay-cut and it is market value. People whine when they don't spend money, and whine when they do...it's lose-lose for the Sox, isn't it?

The mother****er still pisses me off, though. And for someone against the signing of Vazquez, you want to overpay for the declining Jermaine Dye? No thank you.

You really think Javy on the open market will get 11.5 million a year?

Sox are spending the money but in all the wrong places. Bringing in Jim Thome was a MISTAKE! He is a great guy and a good portion of AL teams would love for him to be on their roster. But the price we are paying for a left-handed bat has made this team beyond slow. Along with PK, Thome, and AJ we have a glut of base-cloggers. THis is not a post about "I want Aaron back!"

Trotting out Uribe day-after-day while he runs us into the ground is killing us. We have to know when to cut our losses.

starboy0
06-17-2007, 05:43 PM
This is getting real old. What's even more annoying is how I didn't even care that we lost. This season is dead.

I know what you're saying. I didn't think we would win the series from the Pirates. That's what makes me sick; I really don't believe we can win a series from anybody.

I admit I'm ashamed of myself for being a bad fan but man this is just brutal to follow.

Going to the game tomorrow and already have a gut feeling we will lose.

StillMissOzzie
06-17-2007, 05:54 PM
I cannot stand the losing anymore. This is what it feels like to be an Oriole, Expo/National, Ranger fan.

Nope, this is worse. I am sure our expectations were much higher than theirs.

SMO
:angry::(::whiner:

PaulDrake
06-17-2007, 05:55 PM
Correct, and anyone thinking this team "is still in it" is as silly as any fan of those teams who think their team "is still in it." Then I wonder why some were hounded and even kicked off this board for being a little ahead of the curve? Even when the team was a bit above .500 it was obvious they were a real bad team waiting to happen. I'd laugh if it didn't hurt so much. The "dark clouds" were actually the pollyannas. Who could have imagined this team would fall so far, so fast. Right now they are Cleveland Spiders bad.

WSox597
06-17-2007, 06:09 PM
I've always been amazed by the Vazquez fans here. He hasn't done anything of note anywhere he's ever been. The three year extension was absolutely mind-boggling. I thought at the time that Williams was siging him to trade him.

No such luck. What's he had in a year and a half, four or five great games? Not bad for $11 million a year.

Like I said on another thread, I'm tired of waiting for his ten-cent head to catch up with his million-dollar arm. Stuff don't feed the bulldog.

And the bullpen needs to be beaten severely about the head and shoulders. I can't recall a team going from first to worst so quickly. What the hell is wrong with these hitters this year?

Today they scored seven runs, but how can they go so bad so fast? Nothing against Greg Walker, but perhaps a change is in order. They can always reassign him elsewhere in the organization if they don't want to fire him outright. Somebody has to take the fall for what's been happening.

After winning a Series, you have higher expectations, which makes this losing even harder to take. The way they've been playing, I know what it must feel like to be a fan of the other team in town, just knowing someway, somehow, they're going to blow the game.

StillMissOzzie
06-17-2007, 06:29 PM
Eh. I'm not even mad about that, although I thought El Duque's presence on the Sox was highly underrated, even with the suspect shoulder. I'm just disappointed they inked Vazquez to a new contract before extending Garland or Buehrle's.

I hated the Vazquez deal the day it happened, and still do. It's amazing to me the people that overrate him and think he's going to be a 20-game winner and anchor our staff. Its mind-boggling. He's shown us nothing. He never shown anybody anything. Also, it's truly amazing to me that Buehrle may not be signed long term and Vazquez is. *** Kenny?

Was thinking the same thing today. How does this guy get signed to an $11MM +/yr contract extension? This guy haz ZERO killer instinct.

Didn't Vasquez re-sign for approximately the same deal that KW offered to Buehrle a while back, the one that he promptly declined?

You'd have to convince me otherwise, but I think KW offered the same deal to Buehrle, Garcia, Vasquez, and maybe Garland as well. Garcia said no and was shipped off for prospects. Buehrle also said no, he wants to test the FA waters. Garland has managed to keep his negotiations out of the press, but I would not expect him to accept that deal either. That leaves Vasquez, who snatched the offer while it was still there. :o:

And I still think that we can thank pile-of-**** teams like the Cubs and Royals for driving up the price of mediocre pitching. They always have to overpay to attract free agents, even the ones not worth attracting. :angry:

SMO
:gulp:

FedEx227
06-17-2007, 06:38 PM
Didn't Vasquez re-sign for approximately the same deal that KW offered to Buehrle a while back, the one that he promptly declined?


Yes to the best of my knowledge as you said KW gave similar deals to all of the parties involved to see who was biting, etc. Buehrle declined and again to the best of my knowledge said he wanted to test the FA market instead of signing with us early. By that token to me, you have to trade him because you just don't know. Ask the Nationals how that worked with Soriano for them. They had MLB by the throat during the trade deadline and could've gotten an insane package for Soriano, but they had a bit of a thought that he might resign... turns out he didn't even look back and now they are one of baseball's worst teams.

The Dude
06-17-2007, 06:39 PM
This sucks, and it is official......we suck. At least there is still beer in the coolers before games and at vendors throughout this park. This is very convenient because I like beer. :gulp:

oeo
06-17-2007, 06:54 PM
You really think Javy on the open market will get 11.5 million a year?

Yes. I actually think he would have gotten more had he been a free agent last year.

Sox are spending the money but in all the wrong places. Bringing in Jim Thome was a MISTAKE! He is a great guy and a good portion of AL teams would love for him to be on their roster. But the price we are paying for a left-handed bat has made this team beyond slow. Along with PK, Thome, and AJ we have a glut of base-cloggers. THis is not a post about "I want Aaron back!" Oh my...

Thome is the reason we're slow? The man carried the team in April last year and has been our only consistent offensive production this year. Would you have rather had the slower Big Frank, who BTW, is still not the left-handed power bat that we needed? And why didn't you put JD in there as a 'base-clogger' (or Crede, for that matter), he's not fleet of foot at all anymore...as a matter of fact, if he was, he wouldn't have gotten thrown out on Terrero's bunt attempt today. Thome, Paulie, and AJ all bring important things to the table; good luck finding a speedster at every position. This is especially at C, 1B, and DH...those are not positions we need speed at. It would be nice to be quick at SS, 2B, RF, maybe 3B too, although Josh Fields gives us speed right now, but Crede is slow as hell.

Trotting out Uribe day-after-day while he runs us into the ground is killing us. We have to know when to cut our losses.What does Uribe have to do with anything? I don't like the guy, but I never brought him up.

A. Cavatica
06-17-2007, 07:11 PM
Didn't Vasquez re-sign for approximately the same deal that KW offered to Buehrle a while back, the one that he promptly declined?


That would be seriously overpaying for Carlos Vasquez.

dickallen15
06-17-2007, 07:21 PM
Vazquez wasn't eligible to be a free agent until after 2008. The White Sox had an arbitration year to burn with him due to his demanding a trade from Arizona. I never understood the extension considering how poor his 2006 season was. The guy was not .500 on a team that won 90 games. He had the lead in all but 3 or 4 of his starts and he couldn't finish .500. Its not like he's 24 or 25 and could be expected to get better. To give him an extension, basically a 4 year contract with the year left on his contract plus the extension is beyond mind boggling to me. If they have all this money to throw at him, complaining about contracts should never come out of KW's mouth. Vazquez is the definition of mediocre.

Lorenzo Barcelo
06-17-2007, 07:23 PM
And lets not let Masset off the hook either.

It seems like Masset gets a free pass on sucking. I never hear anything about him underachieving. This guy blows just as much as Mac, Aardsma, et al. He doesn't look MLB ready and its another KW move where he wants to justify his trades and keep him on the roster.

SoxSpeed22
06-17-2007, 07:34 PM
Personally, I think Masset's better off starting in AAA. He was always a starting pitcher before this, and he might end up starting next year.

RockJock07
06-17-2007, 07:47 PM
Awful game, awful roadtrip. Bring up Gio to replace Contreras. Seriously, Uribe needs to be gone. All in all, same story again and again.

JB98
06-17-2007, 07:51 PM
I hated the trade for Javy Vazquez the day it was made. I still hate it, and as time goes by, more and more people are starting to see things my way. This guy pitches just good enough to lose. He can't protect a lead. He'll go 11-14 or 12-16 for the Sox every year remaining on his contract. But, boy, he has the potential to win 20 games.

soxfanatlanta
06-17-2007, 08:11 PM
But, boy, he has the potential to win 20 games.

Thank you.

Bulls_Fan
06-17-2007, 08:59 PM
Thome is the reason we're slow? The man carried the team in April last year and has been our only consistent offensive production this year

You don't win pennants in April.

Hitmen77
06-17-2007, 09:33 PM
Was thinking the same thing today. How does this guy get signed to an $11MM +/yr contract extension? This guy haz ZERO killer instinct.

What I don't understand is that people are always saying the Sox won't give any pitchers more than a 3 year contract. Yet, they committed to 4 years with Vazquez. Yeah, I get it that it's one more year on his existing deal and then 3 more years on his new deal - what's the difference? It's still a 4 year commitment. (Same with Contreras - before the '06 season started, we committed to him for 4 more years.)

So, if the Sox are willing to commit to Javy Vazquez for 4 years, why can't they commit to one more year than that for a younger and more successful Mark Buehrle?

Paulwny
06-17-2007, 09:44 PM
What I don't understand is that people are always saying the Sox won't give any pitchers more than a 3 year contract. Yet, they committed to 4 years with Vazquez. Yeah, I get it that it's one more year on his existing deal and then 3 more years on his new deal - what's the difference? It's still a 4 year commitment. (Same with Contreras - before the '06 season started, we committed to him for 4 more years.)

So, if the Sox are willing to commit to Javy Vazquez for 4 years, why can't they commit to one more year than that for a younger and more successful Mark Buehrle?

If they were fa's at the end of the year the sox would have offered them 3 yr contracts, so JR/KW made the offer earlier.
Buehrle was offered a contract in the spring that he turned down, was he offered 3 yrs and did he think he could get more yrs?

alohafri
06-17-2007, 10:01 PM
MacDougal actually made a decent pitch on the 2-run single, Bay just went out and got it. Gotta give the hitter some credit, and what killed us in this game was giving up the run in the 8th, and the botched bunt.

.

Say what you will, but we were driving home listening to the Pirates feed. When they said that MacDoodieinmypants would be the new pitcher, we just said, it's over. It is a done deal. He is both the worst and the unluckiest pitcher out there.

WhiteSox5187
06-18-2007, 12:48 AM
:worship:

This person has officially entered the pantheon of trolling.
I don't think he's a troll, I just think he's an idiot, or is smoking some SERIOUSLY good stuff...or is from the future and has seen what will happen?

I'm sick of this team. MacDougal needs to be traded or DFA or sent back to the Scottish National Team, something! It's crazy! The fact that NO ONE on this team lay down a bunt is sickening. What happened to executing the fundamentals? Kenny has been saying that for years now and has not done it. Who is going to hold HIM responsible??? This team is just sickening. Just sickening.

Nellie_Fox
06-18-2007, 01:23 AM
Knock off the name calling, lest I have to intervene.

harwar
06-18-2007, 08:19 AM
So, if the Sox are willing to commit to Javy Vazquez for 4 years, why can't they commit to one more year than that for a younger and more successful Mark Buehrle?

Mark is worth the money while Vazquez is not.
Signing Vazquez wasn't a bad thing,they just shouldn't have given him starter money.He is the great bullpen pitcher(4 innings 100 pitches,then breaks down) that we have been searching for.
Also,Contreras just might be older than i am(52).
The two players that i would keep at all costs are Mark Buehrle and Jon Garland but i wouldn't be surprised to see at least one of them traded away

palehozenychicty
06-18-2007, 09:28 AM
I hated the Vazquez deal the day it happened, and still do. It's amazing to me the people that overrate him and think he's going to be a 20-game winner and anchor our staff. Its mind-boggling. He's shown us nothing. He never shown anybody anything. Also, it's truly amazing to me that Buehrle may not be signed long term and Vazquez is. *** Kenny?


Easily his worst move.

palehozenychicty
06-18-2007, 09:29 AM
Mark is worth the money while Vazquez is not.
Signing Vazquez wasn't a bad thing,they just shouldn't have given him starter money.He is the great bullpen pitcher(4 innings 100 pitches,then breaks down) that we have been searching for.
Also,Contreras just might be older than i am(52).
The two players that i would keep at all costs are Mark Buehrle and Jon Garland but i wouldn't be surprised to see at least one of them traded away

These are the guyst that have went through our system as well. I wish that I could understand.

Jerko
06-18-2007, 09:58 AM
Where to begin with this team? Every aspect of it sucks right now. Our great starters' ERA was over 5 this past road trip, so was the bullpen's. We have TWO semi-consistent starters right now, Buehrle and Garland, and those 2 even get smacked around every now and then, like all pitchers eventually do. Everybody else has pitch counts in the 90s by the fifth inning. Are they pitching "scared". I think the whole team is playing scared. ****less. My problem is that it's nearing the END OF JUNE already....................we should know by NOW what it working and what is not working, or what certain players can or can not do. Nobody can bunt, QUIT BUNTING THEN!!!!! With this bullpen you shouldn't be playing for only one run anyway, even with the lead. Probably not gonna be enough even if the bunt works. As for the bullpen, well, NOBODY can stop inherited runners from scoring, and everybody out there, save Jenks, sucks right now. Massett had 2 outs, leave him in, maybe he'll get out of it. But no, we bring in a guy to face ONE GUY, and even if he got the guy out (which they usually don't), we'd have to use MacDougal or Aardsma the next inning anyway. When you have so many ineffective relief pitchers, using 5 or 6 of them a game is just asking for trouble. Maybe these guys should be told "hey, the 7th inning is yours, the 8th is yours", and see what happens. Can't get any worse. Every pitching change we make, we make out of fear, and IMO that's now in the player's heads and it's gonna take something different to get them out of it. Every time Logan or Thornton is brought in, it's to face a lefty with men on base. Every time Mac is brought in, it's after Logan or Thornton don't get said letfy out. I know the problem is deeper than I'm making it out to be, but when you're THIS bad, and you keep doing the SAME things, it's even more frustrating. Change it up a little to at least make it seem like you're trying to figure things out. Bunting with men on and putting in guys to face one batter is not working.

Jurr
06-18-2007, 10:02 AM
Walking out of the game on Sunday, I looked into the faces of a lot of Sox fans, and everybody had the same expression of utter disgust. I wanted to crawl under my Uribe jersey and die.

This team sucks. They have since the All Star break of '06. They got incredibly homer happy last year and forgot about execution. The bullpen hasn't been there, either.

This team needs new blood and quick. I feel sentimental towards the '05 bunch, but screw 'em. They are bums, and it's time to move on.

Swept by Philly and beaten two of three by the Pirates. My goodness. :mad:

kittle42
06-18-2007, 10:07 AM
Then I wonder why some were hounded and even kicked off this board for being a little ahead of the curve? Even when the team was a bit above .500 it was obvious they were a real bad team waiting to happen. I'd laugh if it didn't hurt so much. The "dark clouds" were actually the pollyannas. Who could have imagined this team would fall so far, so fast. Right now they are Cleveland Spiders bad.

My guess is that it's "OK" to run down the Sox now, as it's pretty much obvious to anyone that they completely suck.

kittle42
06-18-2007, 10:12 AM
my Uribe jersey

There was your first mistake.

itsnotrequired
06-18-2007, 10:15 AM
Then I wonder why some were hounded and even kicked off this board for being a little ahead of the curve? Even when the team was a bit above .500 it was obvious they were a real bad team waiting to happen. I'd laugh if it didn't hurt so much. The "dark clouds" were actually the pollyannas. Who could have imagined this team would fall so far, so fast. Right now they are Cleveland Spiders bad.

I love baseless predictions in the early season, especially doomsday predictions that come true. I love it even more when people then claim to have been "a little ahead of the curve" or that it was "obvious" the Sox would fail.

:rolleyes:

PaulDrake
06-18-2007, 10:27 AM
I love baseless predictions in the early season, especially doomsday predictions that come true. I love it even more when people then claim to have been "a little ahead of the curve" or that it was "obvious" the Sox would fail.

:rolleyes: I love eye rolls.

itsnotrequired
06-18-2007, 10:31 AM
I love eye rolls.

They are healthier than jelly rolls.

PaulDrake
06-18-2007, 10:33 AM
They are healthier than jelly rolls. I'm sure you're right, but jelly rolls taste better. :D: