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View Full Version : Major brawl at Wrigley! And Big Z no-no?


It's Time
06-16-2007, 02:09 PM
Young just plunked D-Lee and Lee threw punches. This was a carry over from yesterday. WOW!

mccombe_35
06-16-2007, 02:15 PM
And Lou goes down! lol

It's Time
06-16-2007, 02:17 PM
Zambrano is pitching today and he had to be restrained. You just know he is going to drill someone. Look for another brawl in this one.

chaerulez
06-16-2007, 02:19 PM
While Lee shouldn't have punched anyone because he is the best player on a team still trying to stay in a playoff race and now will face 8 to 10 games off, I can understand the anger of getting thrown at your head.

oeo
06-16-2007, 02:19 PM
Not a real smart move by Lee.

I'd like to see a brawl during the Sox game, though...it would make it worth watching.

Mr. White Sox
06-16-2007, 02:24 PM
While Lee shouldn't have punched anyone because he is the best player on a team still trying to stay in a playoff race and now will face 8 to 10 games off, I can understand the anger of getting thrown at your head.

He should have realized that this completely destroys my fantasy team. :angry:

It's Time
06-16-2007, 02:31 PM
While Lee shouldn't have punched anyone because he is the best player on a team still trying to stay in a playoff race and now will face 8 to 10 games off, I can understand the anger of getting thrown at your head.

I agree. The Padres were quoted in the paper today that after Soriano hit the homer yesterday and watched it and danced in the batters box, "someone is getting one in the ribs". Lee got nailed on the wrist and it nearly hit his head.

Bad move by Lee but that is a heat of the moment thing. Can't say I really blame him after the Padres said that.

Dan the Man
06-16-2007, 02:32 PM
What was with Zambrano's belt half off? I wish the 6'10" Young would have landed that punch.

Dan the Man
06-16-2007, 02:33 PM
He should have realized that this completely destroys my fantasy team. :angry:
Ditto, except I have Young. I'm in big trouble now.

JB98
06-16-2007, 02:35 PM
I agree. The Padres were quoted in the paper today that after Soriano hit the homer yesterday and watched it and danced in the batters box, "someone is getting one in the ribs". Lee got nailed on the wrist and it nearly hit his head.

Bad move by Lee but that is a heat of the moment thing. Can't say I really blame him after the Padres said that.

Anyone know why they nailed Lee instead of Soriano? I didn't see the pitch or the brawl. I saw the highlight of Soriano's hotdog act from yesterday. If the Padres had nailed his ass, I wouldn't have blamed them. What did Lee do to deserve that?

Juice16
06-16-2007, 02:38 PM
I'm sitting here at work and I swear, all the cub fans here think this is the world series. They give each other updates off the web or their cell phone every 5 minutes, and oh yeah, manage to through some Sox digs in there too.

It's Time
06-16-2007, 02:39 PM
Anyone know why they nailed Lee instead of Soriano? I didn't see the pitch or the brawl. I saw the highlight of Soriano's hotdog act from yesterday. If the Padres had nailed his ass, I wouldn't have blamed them. What did Lee do to deserve that?

Nothing. The only thing I can think of is that Lee had reached base something like 5 times in a row with 3 doubles. The pitch that hit him was up and in and clearly intentional.

Soriano's act from yesterday just got their best player ejected today.

DumpJerry
06-16-2007, 02:40 PM
Is it my imagination or have there been a fair amount of these incidents this year with the Cubs teh day after Sorry Anno goes yard? Does he make Barry Bonds look modest when he connects one?

It's Time
06-16-2007, 02:42 PM
Is it my imagination or have there been a fair amount of these incidents this year with the Cubs teh day after Sorry Anno goes yard? Does he make Barry Bonds look modest when he connects one?

He made Sammy Sosa look tame yesterday. I honestly have never seen a worse show of sportsmanship then what he showed yesterday.

Paulwny
06-16-2007, 02:46 PM
Zambrano still pitching a no-hitter even after the melee.

JB98
06-16-2007, 02:48 PM
It looks like asshat has a no-hitter through six. I bring this up in hopes of jinxing him.

champagne030
06-16-2007, 02:49 PM
I agree. The Padres were quoted in the paper today that after Soriano hit the homer yesterday and watched it and danced in the batters box, "someone is getting one in the ribs". Lee got nailed on the wrist and it nearly hit his head.

Bad move by Lee but that is a heat of the moment thing. Can't say I really blame him after the Padres said that.

Peavy said that if he was pitching he would have drilled the best player on the other team. The pitch wasn't head high. It was shoulder level, after Lee dove down and into the plate. If he turns his shoulder inside the pitch hits him in the back of the arm. The pitch was probably less than 6 inches off the plate.

What was with Zambrano's belt half off? I wish the 6'10" Young would have landed that punch.

I wish he would've gotten into the mix. I think he took it off to use as a weapon (IMO), ala swing it to hit someone with the buckle. He's a total 'banger.

Anyone know why they nailed Lee instead of Soriano? I didn't see the pitch or the brawl. I saw the highlight of Soriano's hotdog act from yesterday. If the Padres had nailed his ass, I wouldn't have blamed them. What did Lee do to deserve that?

I agree Lee is normally a nice guy. I don't think he did it on purpose. You can read the lips of Young and he just told him to "take your base". Lee lost his emotions. And obviously, the Cubs read Peavy's comments and that's why Perry went after him.

My question is what is a pitcher to do if someone charges you? Roll into a ball and take a beating so you can stay in the game? He shouldn't have been tossed.

It's Time
06-16-2007, 02:56 PM
Peavy said that if he was pitching he would have drilled the best player on the other team.

Which is exactly what the Padres did the next day. If they want to nail Soriano, that would be one thing. He deserved it. Not Lee.

I still say that pitch was intentional.

redsand22
06-16-2007, 02:56 PM
When was the last time both Chicago teams had no no's in the same year? Doesnt happen very often, hope it doesnt happen this year either!

It's Time
06-16-2007, 02:59 PM
You guys are right. Zambrano is going to be taking a no hitter into the 8th.

QCIASOXFAN
06-16-2007, 03:00 PM
I'm sitting here at work and I swear, all the cub fans here think this is the world series. They give each other updates off the web or their cell phone every 5 minutes, and oh yeah, manage to through some Sox digs in there too.
Welcome to my world.:(:

DumpJerry
06-16-2007, 03:02 PM
Z is throwing a no-no
Z is throwing a no-no
Z is throwing a no-no
Z is throwing a no-no
Z is throwing a no-no
Z is throwing a no-no
Z is throwing a no-no

Just like Schilling.:tongue:

Mr. White Sox
06-16-2007, 03:05 PM
As much as the Cubs bother me, and with the way the White Sox season has gone so far, this is by far the most entertaining baseball game I've seen all year. Amazing plays by Zambrano and Bocachica so far.

I was hoping for the no-hitter and loss after a couple of those two-base errors (DeRosa's error was questionable; that was a hard-hit ball), but now let's hope for a no-no into extras leading to a hit by a PH or something.

JB98
06-16-2007, 03:08 PM
I wouldn't have ever turned this game on if it had not been for this thread. I'm kinda hoping Zambrano will lose the no-hitter, then bean the very next guy and start another brawl. Better yet, he could throw nine no-hit innings and then lose 1-0 in the 10th. That would be kinda funny.:D:

DrCrawdad
06-16-2007, 03:10 PM
No reason for Lee to throw that punch. The punk actions of Barrett and Zambrano have infected Derreck Lee now.

DumpJerry
06-16-2007, 03:11 PM
Is Geoff Blum in this game? He will come through for us!

QCIASOXFAN
06-16-2007, 03:13 PM
The dreaded leadoff walk!

chaotic8512
06-16-2007, 03:14 PM
Any chance Jose Cruz is on the market? He's got just the bunting skills to fit on this team.

DumpJerry
06-16-2007, 03:15 PM
Does Zambozo think he's an AL Central pitcher?

areilly
06-16-2007, 03:16 PM
Giles!

Thank you!

DumpJerry
06-16-2007, 03:16 PM
AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

Back to normal life.

QCIASOXFAN
06-16-2007, 03:16 PM
Time for the wheels to fall off!

thomas35forever
06-16-2007, 03:16 PM
Wow. I just turned the game on and the no-no is now one that isn't.

whitesoxfan1986
06-16-2007, 03:16 PM
No hitter is off! Giles with a hit!:bandance:

DumpJerry
06-16-2007, 03:17 PM
This happened right after I left a voice mail message for a Cub fan buddy.

He he.

veeter
06-16-2007, 03:18 PM
My God do the Padres suck.

It's Time
06-16-2007, 03:18 PM
What a way to lose the no no. LOL. Of course, a dp ends the inning.

SoxSpeed22
06-16-2007, 03:19 PM
This happened right after I left a voice mail message for a Cub fan buddy.

He he.Way to jinx it!
Seriously though, this is a good game so far.

MarySwiss
06-16-2007, 03:20 PM
I turned it on hoping to see some of the brawl, just in time to see Zambrano deflect the ball. If he doesn't do that, he's probably still got a no-no going.

Okay, Zambrano; who are you going to blame this one on?

QCIASOXFAN
06-16-2007, 03:22 PM
My God do the Padres suck.
:lol:That was exactly what I was thinking. Do they remind you of anybody?:unsure:

TDog
06-16-2007, 03:22 PM
I see that the no-hitter is gone. The no-no is gone for that matter, but the no is still possible as I haven't seen the Padres score the inevitable runs that would deprive Zambrano of victory.

The use of the term "no-no" diminishes the accomplishment of throwing a no-hitter. it's cutesy, and I could understand using it if you were, like, 12. I could understand ESPN using it because it seems to appeal to 12-year-olds that know nothing (know-no) about baseball.

I just wish the phrase would go away.

DumpJerry
06-16-2007, 03:26 PM
This happened right after I left a voice mail message for a Cub fan buddy.

He he.

Way to jinx it!

Okay, Zambrano; who are you going to blame this one on?
You're all welcome!

Never underestimate the power of a WSI Mod!:rolleyes:

champagne030
06-16-2007, 03:28 PM
Which is exactly what the Padres did the next day. If they want to nail Soriano, that would be one thing. He deserved it. Not Lee.

I still say that pitch was intentional.

Peavy said it, not Young. Still, it may have been a purpose pitch.

The reason I don't think he did it on purpose is that he wasn't afraid of Lee and why half-ass a plunking? If you're going to drill someone then do it like Hudson - that was a purpose pitch, although I like making someone else pay the price. Either way with the intent, I think Lee is going to tell Soriano that he doesn't like his body cashing checks Soriano wrote. :wink:

Mr. White Sox
06-16-2007, 03:29 PM
I see that the no-hitter is gone. The no-no is gone for that matter, but the no is still possible as I haven't seen the Padres score the inevitable runs that would deprive Zambrano of victory.

The use of the term "no-no" diminishes the accomplishment of throwing a no-hitter. it's cutesy, and I could understand using it if you were, like, 12. I could understand ESPN using it because it seems to appeal to 12-year-olds that know nothing (know-no) about baseball.

I just wish the phrase would go away.

I also think "plunk", "slider", and "change-up" are cutesey phrases that need to go away. We have to replace them with "hit batsmen", "left-to-right or vise-versa breaking ball", and "slow pitch meant to look like a fastball and entice hitters to swing early", respectively.

veeter
06-16-2007, 03:33 PM
Lost the no-hitter, the shut out, now, how about the game.

TDog
06-16-2007, 03:35 PM
I also think "plunk", "slider", and "change-up" are cutesey phrases that need to go away. We have to replace them with "hit batsmen", "left-to-right or vise-versa breaking ball", and "slow pitch meant to look like a fastball and entice hitters to swing early", respectively.

The phrases you describe came from people who played baseball at the highest level. "No-no" came from an abbreviateion for "no-hit, no-run game" and was invented by people who couldn't fit "no-hitter" into headlines and perpetuated by people who show no respect for the game.

TDog
06-16-2007, 03:37 PM
Now there's no no left for Zambrano to go for today, unless you count no win.

It's Time
06-16-2007, 03:42 PM
And leave it to the Cubs to lose a game like that. LOL.

hose
06-16-2007, 03:49 PM
Looks like SD as a team out pitched the Cubs today.

Hitmen77
06-16-2007, 04:04 PM
Peavy said. "Just play the game. They pay him $136 million to hit home runs. They don't pay him to be a circus act on the field. If I think a player shows me up like that, I like the next guy to take one in the stinking ribs. That way, his teammate will let him know about it, (and he'll) tell him 'Hey, you'd better run the bases.'
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-070616cubsfight,1,1023562.story?coll=chi-sportstop-hed

:worship:

I'm glad San Diego doesn't put up with this crap. How many brawls has this been for the Cubs this year? Those Cubbies are so lovable!!!! How can you not love a $300 million team that always gets into fights?

SayWhat
06-16-2007, 04:17 PM
And leave it to the Cubs to lose a game like that. LOL.
It doesn't happen often. (http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/MIN/MIN200508230.shtml) :cool:

MUsoxfan
06-16-2007, 04:21 PM
It doesn't happen often. (http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/MIN/MIN200508230.shtml) :cool:


I'll never forget where I was for that game

MarySwiss
06-16-2007, 04:29 PM
Personally, I prefer to dwell on the way that year came out. :cool:

DrCrawdad
06-16-2007, 04:30 PM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-070616cubsfight,1,1023562.story?coll=chi-sportstop-hed

:worship:

I'm glad San Diego doesn't put up with this crap. How many brawls has this been for the Cubs this year? Those Cubbies are so lovable!!!! How can you not love a $300 million team that always gets into fights?

You'll notice the theme of the Cubbies, "It's not our fault."

Barrett punches AJ, AJ's fault
Braves and Cubbies, Braves fault
Lee punches Young, Young's fault

Juice16
06-16-2007, 04:35 PM
You'll notice the theme of the Cubbies, "It's not our fault."

Barrett punches AJ, AJ's fault
Braves and Cubbies, Braves fault
Lee punches Young, Young's fault

Don't forget, Zambrano punches Barrett (nobody's fault, nobody is fined)

MarySwiss
06-16-2007, 04:41 PM
Don't forget, Zambrano punches Barrett (nobody's fault, nobody is fined)

That's probably the result of MLB's little-known "Boys will be boys" clause, which states that anything that happens off the field between teammates is just good old-fashioned horseplay.

Chez
06-16-2007, 05:02 PM
I don't think Young was trying to hit DLee. The funny thing about the "brawl" (in which no punches were actually landed) is that after Lee and Young both swung and missed, Lee ran to a spot behind Lou -- he was using his manager as a human shield!!

Martinigirl
06-16-2007, 05:12 PM
Does anyone know where there is a clip of Soriano showboating? I am fascinated that it is being labeled as "moonwalking to first base".

And as far as losing a one hitter, didn't we managed to lose a two hitter for Buerhle this year? Sadly, I think we are the pot calling the kettle black in this situation. But still fun to see it happen to the Cubs.

Brian26
06-16-2007, 05:18 PM
These threads are extremely entertaining to read after the fact. In four pages, you go from a bench-clearing brawl, to Z has a no-hitter into the 8th, to losing the no-hitter, to losing the game. All in the span of a couple of minutes, this is quite entertaining in a cliff-notes sort of way.

thomas35forever
06-16-2007, 05:18 PM
It doesn't happen often. (http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/MIN/MIN200508230.shtml) :cool:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CHA/CHA200606220.shtml
I prefer this game. I was at it.

TDog
06-16-2007, 05:20 PM
Does anyone know where there is a clip of Soriano showboating? I am fascinated that it is being labeled as "moonwalking to first base".

And as far as losing a one hitter, didn't we managed to lose a two hitter for Buerhle this year? Sadly, I think we are the pot calling the kettle black in this situation. But still fun to see it happen to the Cubs.

Zambrano pitched a two-hitter today and lost, unless the scorer changed the eighth-inning single to an error. Buehrle pitched a two-hitter and lost, although he only pitched eight innings because the White Sox lost the game on the road.

The Cubs are having a lousy season, despite players performing as well or better than people expected. And they have a great manager, too. Just ask some of the people who believe the White Sox would be in first place if Lou Piniella was managing the team. There are great differences between the Cubs and White Sox this year, but the bottom line is they are both losers.

Brian26
06-16-2007, 05:28 PM
I'm watching this clip for the first time. There's a great moment after the Padres tackle Young to keep him out of the fight. D-Lee is just standing there by himself, and if he wanted he could have gone after Young with a clean shot, but he sort of drifted towards the Cubs dugout looking for someone on his own team to hold him back. What a fruitcake.

Brian26
06-16-2007, 05:30 PM
Why did Young get ejected again?

Were there warnings issued before the game, or is it against the rules to defend yourself when someone throws a punch at you?

MarySwiss
06-16-2007, 05:33 PM
I'm watching this clip for the first time. There's a great moment after the Padres tackle Young to keep him out of the fight. D-Lee is just standing there by himself, and if he wanted he could have gone after Young with a clean shot, but he sort of drifted towards the Cubs dugout looking for someone on his own team to hold him back. What a fruitcake.
Well, Chris Young goes about 6'10", 260. So maybe Lee was having second thoughts. :D:

Brian26
06-16-2007, 05:33 PM
Just watched the Branyan homer. That was a thing of beauty.

MarySwiss
06-16-2007, 05:36 PM
Why did Young get ejected again?

Were there warnings issued before the game, or is it against the rules to defend yourself when someone throws a punch at you?
I watched the 10th inning just for the hell of it, and apparently there were no warnings issued before, but there were after the--well, I guess you could call it a brawl.

HotelWhiteSox
06-16-2007, 05:58 PM
He made Sammy Sosa look tame yesterday. I honestly have never seen a worse show of sportsmanship then what he showed yesterday.

That's what stuck out to me when I watched highlights of all the games last night. If you saw it, this was a matter of 'when', not 'if', kudos to the Padres. Suprisingly the guy reading the highlights didn't even take note of it

getonbckthr
06-16-2007, 05:59 PM
I'm watching this clip for the first time. There's a great moment after the Padres tackle Young to keep him out of the fight. D-Lee is just standing there by himself, and if he wanted he could have gone after Young with a clean shot, but he sort of drifted towards the Cubs dugout looking for someone on his own team to hold him back. What a fruitcake.
I have never read, seen, or heard any complaints about Derrek Lee. What happened was simple, SD was *****ing about Soriano in the papers and discussed payback in the papers. They then threw at Lee hitting I believe in his surgically repaired wrist. Now if you read about payback against your team in the mornings paper, then they hit you in an area where it is well-known you had surgery how would you re-act? I would take that as them trying to hurt me. As far as DLee backing off after the initial beaning and punches he might have just calmed down and asked himself, "what the hell am I doing?" We have all had situations where it blew way out of control before we had a second to think about it. DLee doesn't have a history here so lets give him a pass. If this was Barrett or Zambrano then I say crucify as much as you want but not DLee.

getonbckthr
06-16-2007, 05:59 PM
You have a problem with Soriano you hit Soriano.

Paulwny
06-16-2007, 06:08 PM
You have a problem with Soriano you hit Soriano.


After statements to the press, if you hit Soriano the ump probably tosses you out of the game. In this case, hitting Lee creates some doubt in the ump's mind and he probably issues warnings to both benches. The SD pitcher was tossed for fighting not for hitting Lee.

getonbckthr
06-16-2007, 06:10 PM
After statements to the press, if you hit Soriano the ump probably tosses you out of the game. In this case, hitting Lee creates some doubt in the ump's mind and he probably issues warnings to both benches. The SD pitcher was tossed for fighting not for hitting Lee.
Ya I understand that i'm just from the mindset you fight the guy you have the problem with not the guy next to him looking at the cute girl.

MarySwiss
06-16-2007, 06:11 PM
You have a problem with Soriano you hit Soriano.

I sort of agree with this. No, I DO agree with this; Soriano is the guy you hit. But IIRC, traditional wisdom holds that you hit the best player on the team. And that's Derrek Lee. Unfortunate, since Lee seems to be a class act. But there it is.

DumpJerry
06-16-2007, 06:15 PM
It doesn't happen often. (http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/MIN/MIN200508230.shtml) :cool:
That was not a Cub game.

Nice first (and final) post.

Brian26
06-16-2007, 06:18 PM
I have never read, seen, or heard any complaints about Derrek Lee. What happened was simple, SD was *****ing about Soriano in the papers and discussed payback in the papers. They then threw at Lee hitting I believe in his surgically repaired wrist. Now if you read about payback against your team in the mornings paper, then they hit you in an area where it is well-known you had surgery how would you re-act? I would take that as them trying to hurt me. As far as DLee backing off after the initial beaning and punches he might have just calmed down and asked himself, "what the hell am I doing?" We have all had situations where it blew way out of control before we had a second to think about it. DLee doesn't have a history here so lets give him a pass. If this was Barrett or Zambrano then I say crucify as much as you want but not DLee.

Please. DLee chose to jaw with the pitcher on the way down to first base, and then he chose to throw the first punch. Then he chose to look like a weasel by drifting over to the Cubs dugout doing the old "hold me back! hold me back!" bit.

If you want to see someone get hit with class, find a tape of Cal Ripken getting hit in the '83 playoffs by Rich Dotson. He knew it was coming, and he took it like a man. He put his head down and ran to first base, didn't say a word or even look at the pitcher.

Enough with the DLee ass-kissing fest.

getonbckthr
06-16-2007, 06:21 PM
Please. DLee chose to jaw with the pitcher on the way down to first base, and then he chose to throw the first punch. Then he chose to look like a weasel by drifting over to the Cubs dugout doing the old "hold me back! hold me back!" bit.

If you want to see someone get hit with class, find a tape of Cal Ripken getting hit in the '83 playoffs by Rich Dotson. He knew it was coming, and he took it like a man. He put his head down and ran to first base, didn't say a word or even look at the pitcher.

Enough with the DLee ass-kissing fest.
Enough with the Dlee hate because he wears Cubby-Blue.

Paulwny
06-16-2007, 06:23 PM
If you want to see someone get hit with class, find a tape of Cal Ripken getting hit in the '83 playoffs by Rich Dotson. He knew it was coming, and he took it like a man. He put his head down and ran to first base, didn't say a word or even look at the pitcher.

Enough with the DLee ass-kissing fest.

On another note, old time "rule of the game", no longer practiced, back to back homers and the next batter goes down and he expected it.

Brian26
06-16-2007, 06:26 PM
Enough with the Dlee hate because he wears Cubby-Blue.

When did I say I hate DLee? All I said is that he acted inappropriately, looked like a fool and shouldn't be defended. Don't put words in my mouth.

getonbckthr
06-16-2007, 06:32 PM
When did I say I hate DLee? All I said is that he acted inappropriately, looked like a fool and shouldn't be defended. Don't put words in my mouth.
Personally I don't think it was completely inappropriate If someone is gonna throw a fastball at my surgically repaired wrist hours after reports in the papers insisted retaliation.

TDog
06-16-2007, 06:41 PM
I watched the 10th inning just for the hell of it, and apparently there were no warnings issued before, but there were after the--well, I guess you could call it a brawl.

There doesn't have to be warnings issued for a pitcher to be ejected if the umpire believes a batter was hit on purpose. The warning puts teams on notice that pitchers won't get the benefit of the doubt. If, after issuing warnings, the umpire believes a batter was hit unintentionally, he does not have to eject the pitcher. All of these hypotheticals have happened in White Sox games in recent years.

A pitcher who hits a batter and does not defend himself can be ejected. Jack McDowell was ejected in such a situation. When Nolan Ryan beat up on Robin Ventura who charged the mound, umpires did not eject Nolan Ryan. The umpires have discretion. It's their judgment and judgment calls are not open to protest.

Really, pitchers should never throw at anyone. But if you have a problem with Soriano and are classless enough to throw at someone, I have no problem with taking out your anger at Derek Lee. That puts the Cubs on notice that they mean business. And the character of the Cubs leaves open the possibility that Lee will slug it out with Soriano for putting him at risk.

From what I've read about Lee's actions today, it would seem the only reason to defend him would be worship of all things Cub.

I consider him a jerk when he played in Florida, and I have never found any reason to change my mind.

DrCrawdad
06-16-2007, 06:41 PM
Personally I don't think it was completely inappropriate If someone is gonna throw a fastball at my surgically repaired wrist hours after reports in the papers insisted retaliation.

And how exactly do you know that Young "(threw) a fastball at (Lee's) surgically repaired wrist?"

Last week throws a pitch near the head of Rentaria. This week Soriano's dancing around the bases. Then Lee throws jaws at the pitcher for hitting him and then THROWS THE FIRST PUNCH!

Enough of the lectures of baseball etiquette from Cubbie fans. Enough of the (butt) kissing of Lee, getonbckthr.

DrCrawdad
06-16-2007, 06:43 PM
Please. DLee chose to jaw with the pitcher on the way down to first base, and then he chose to throw the first punch. Then he chose to look like a weasel by drifting over to the Cubs dugout doing the old "hold me back! hold me back!" bit.

If you want to see someone get hit with class, find a tape of Cal Ripken getting hit in the '83 playoffs by Rich Dotson. He knew it was coming, and he took it like a man. He put his head down and ran to first base, didn't say a word or even look at the pitcher.

Enough with the DLee ass-kissing fest.

:supernana::bandance::supernana:

getonbckthr
06-16-2007, 06:48 PM
And how exactly do you know that Young "(threw) a fastball at (Lee's) surgically repaired wrist?"

Last week throws a pitch near the head of Rentaria. This week Soriano's dancing around the bases. Then Lee throws jaws at the pitcher for hitting him and then THROWS THE FIRST PUNCH!

Enough of the lectures of baseball etiquette from Cubbie fans. Enough of the (butt) kissing of Lee, getonbckthr.
Lee was "throwing jaws and threw a punch" because he got thrown at for no reason what so ever. I think was pretty clear where it was aimed and what was thrown.

RallyBowl
06-16-2007, 06:50 PM
I can't remember seeing as many fights on the field as I have the last few years. Since when for any reason is it okay to just punch someone?

That's assault brutha.

D-Lee is in fact a ****ing fruitcake. The captain of a team probably shouldn't be trying to throw roundhouses. He embarrassed himself today. Didn't even land the punch, ran and hid behind a 60 year old man, and then was tossed and couldn't even stick around to try to help his team score 1 run.

That's funniest thing about all of these fights the cubs get in- is that they are a bunch of ******* and lose every one, and are embarassing themselves. Try to play baseball- they suck. Try to be fake tough guys- they suck.

Say what you will about the Sox this year, but at least they are confining their suckiness to baseball playing. Embarrasing yourself, team, and organization through ****ty play is one thing, going out and doing **** like this is one of the few things that would make me start looking for another team.

Just another reason they're all a bunch of ****ing losers.

DrCrawdad
06-16-2007, 07:22 PM
Lee was "throwing jaws and threw a punch" because he got thrown at for no reason what so ever. I think was pretty clear where it was aimed and what was thrown.

It wasn't for no reason whatsoever, if it was intentional. The day before Soriano pranced around the bases like a freakin' pansy celebrating a HR. So, IF Young threw at a Cubbie, and you have absolutely no proof that he intentionally threw at him, it wasn't for no reason whatsoever.

Bear in mind too that these are the very same Cubbies who've lectured Sox fans when Sox players celebrated walk-off-HRs against the Cubbies.

And you have not yet addressed my direct question to, "And how exactly do you know that Young "(threw) a fastball AT (Lee's) surgically repaired wrist?"

You have no proof other than your opinion that Young threw at Lee intentionally and absolutely no proof he targeted Lee's "surgically repaired wrist."

In fact, the umpire must not have thought Young intentionally threw at Lee. If the ump thought that he would have tossed out Young, as the umpire did in the case of Lily hitting Renteria.

Mr. White Sox
06-16-2007, 07:34 PM
The phrases you describe came from people who played baseball at the highest level. "No-no" came from an abbreviateion for "no-hit, no-run game" and was invented by people who couldn't fit "no-hitter" into headlines and perpetuated by people who show no respect for the game.

Totally agree. I just felt like arguing a point, even though it was stupid. Maybe it was because I actually used no-no, and I probably used it because it's a tiny bit easier to type than no-hitter and I was lazy. :(:

Martinigirl
06-16-2007, 07:54 PM
After statements to the press, if you hit Soriano the ump probably tosses you out of the game. In this case, hitting Lee creates some doubt in the ump's mind and he probably issues warnings to both benches. The SD pitcher was tossed for fighting not for hitting Lee.

There was a quote from a Padre that basically said that you hit a teammate so that Soriano's teammates then tell him to knock it off because they don't want to get hit because of his need to be an ass.

cws05champ
06-16-2007, 08:48 PM
I love the picture on the front of chicagosports.com...it's Young throwing the punch at Lee!! Nice....

MarySwiss
06-16-2007, 08:55 PM
Totally agree. I just felt like arguing a point, even though it was stupid. Maybe it was because I actually used no-no, and I probably used it because it's a tiny bit easier to type than no-hitter and I was lazy. :(:
Much as I love TDog, I totally DISagree. Sorry, TDog, but please! Saying "no-no" does not equate to having no respect for the game just because you say it does.

TDog
06-16-2007, 09:05 PM
Personally I don't think it was completely inappropriate If someone is gonna throw a fastball at my surgically repaired wrist hours after reports in the papers insisted retaliation.

According to wire reports, Lee said he thought the pitch was heading for his head. I don't know which of you is most credible here, but the two of you should get your stories straight before you try to justify Lee's apparently bush league actions.

getonbckthr
06-16-2007, 09:09 PM
According to wire reports, Lee said he thought the pitch was heading for his head. I don't know which of you is most credible here, but the two of you should get your stories straight before you try to justify Lee's apparently bush league actions.
Bush league actions? Yes DLee is the first player to charge the mound.

ChiSoxFan7
06-16-2007, 09:29 PM
is there any video on a youtube or anything yet.


P.S. DumpJerry...I love your signature. HILARIOUS!

Brian26
06-16-2007, 09:45 PM
is there any video on a youtube or anything yet.



Complete video is on mlb.com. You can see DLee run behind Piniella after his punch missed and the entire Padres team tackled their own pitcher to try to keep him down. In addition, there's also video of Soriano dancing and waving his bat like a clown in Friday's game.

TDog
06-16-2007, 09:46 PM
Much as I love TDog, I totally DISagree. Sorry, TDog, but please! Saying "no-no" does not equate to having no respect for the game just because you say it does.

Mary, it's not just a matter of respect for the game. It's about respecting the language. We don't have to put up the linguistic diminishment of no-hitters just because ESPN wants to appeal in a cutesy way to the people who can best understand their sports news one syllable at a time.

If you're talking about a no-hitter, say no-hitter. A no-no could be a no-walk, no-strikeout game. Kenny Holzman on Aug. 19, 1969, on the eve Cubs collapse, pitched a no-strikeout, no-hit, no-run game. A no-no-no. Had he walked three fewer hitters, he would have pitched a no-no-no-no. He would have pitched a perfect game, but it would be more cute to say no-no-no-no.

Nos, of course, could be shutouts or no-hitters no-hitters, but not both. Joe Cowley pitched a no on Sept. 19, 1986, when he held the Angels hitless in a 6-1 win. His only previous complete-game no was in 1984, which would have been a no-no if he had given up three fewer hits. On Sept. 25, 1966, Kenny Holtzman (a regular Dr. No) took a no-hitter into the ninth against Sandy Koufax, but the Dodgers got two hits and a run in the ninth. No no. No no. No no-no.

DumpJerry
06-16-2007, 09:46 PM
P.S. DumpJerry...I love your signature. HILARIOUS!
Thanks.

You get to move to the head of the class.:D:

TDog
06-16-2007, 09:55 PM
Bush league actions? Yes DLee is the first player to charge the mound.

Did I say "unprecedented bush league actions?"

When Robin Ventura charged the mound against Nolan Ryan, it was a bush league action. It he were more of a bush leaguer at heart and hadn't thought better of it when he reached Nolan Ryan, he wouldn't have left himself open to being pummeled.

Derek Lee deserves the suspension he has coming to him.

CHIsoxNation
06-16-2007, 10:15 PM
Complete video is on mlb.com. You can see DLee run behind Piniella after his punch missed and the entire Padres team tackled their own pitcher to try to keep him down. In addition, there's also video of Soriano dancing and waving his bat like a clown in Friday's game.

It almost looks like Lee wanted to go back after Young but then realized it was him against the entire Padres team and thought "oh ****" and held up for the rest of his team to get over there. He probably didn't even realize at the time he was using Piniella as his fullback. My favorite part was watching Piniella go down though.

DrCrawdad
06-16-2007, 10:37 PM
It wasn't for no reason whatsoever, if it was intentional. The day before Soriano pranced around the bases like a freakin' pansy celebrating a HR. So, IF Young threw at a Cubbie, and you have absolutely no proof that he intentionally threw at him, it wasn't for no reason whatsoever.

Bear in mind too that these are the very same Cubbies who've lectured Sox fans when Sox players celebrated walk-off-HRs against the Cubbies.

And you have not yet addressed my direct question to, "And how exactly do you know that Young "(threw) a fastball AT (Lee's) surgically repaired wrist?"

You have no proof other than your opinion that Young threw at Lee intentionally and absolutely no proof he targeted Lee's "surgically repaired wrist."

In fact, the umpire must not have thought Young intentionally threw at Lee. If the ump thought that he would have tossed out Young, as the umpire did in the case of Lily hitting Renteria.

Waiting for a response...

http://www.st-john-the-baptist.org/images/stopwatch.gif

Brian26
06-16-2007, 10:58 PM
Waiting for a response...

http://www.st-john-the-baptist.org/images/stopwatch.gif

He's too busy reading his latest edition of "Vine Line" to get back to us.

:club:

soxwon
06-16-2007, 11:08 PM
Zambrano is pitching today and he had to be restrained. You just know he is going to drill someone. Look for another brawl in this one.
He be dumb to, the league will most definetly warn both teams.

soxwon
06-16-2007, 11:10 PM
Another thing, im sure most dont care, but this Felix Pie, is a duplicate of Sosa.
I hATE him already with his hand gesture's- they are driving me nuts.
Why do the Cubs get these guys everybody eventually hates?

Hitmen77
06-17-2007, 12:41 AM
It doesn't happen often. (http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/MIN/MIN200508230.shtml) :cool:

Yeah, great example! That season ended so disastrously for the Sox. Ironically, that forgettable season ended with another 1-0 game (http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/2005/B10260HOU2005.htm): :cool:

DickAllen72
06-17-2007, 01:21 AM
Why did Young get ejected again?

Were there warnings issued before the game, or is it against the rules to defend yourself when someone throws a punch at you?
A.J. got suspended just for getting punched in the jaw. As I said then I'll say again: MLB is a joke.

WhiteSox5187
06-17-2007, 02:03 AM
It doesn't happen often. (http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/MIN/MIN200508230.shtml) :cool:
It's soooo funny you should mention that! Because I have the box score to a game that doesn't happen often either. In fact, for you guys I don't it's happened in what? One Hundred years?


http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/2005/B10260HOU2005.htm

WhiteSox5187
06-17-2007, 02:04 AM
Yeah, great example! That season ended so disastrously for the Sox. Ironically, that forgettable season ended with another 1-0 game (http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/2005/B10260HOU2005.htm): :cool:
Ya beat me to it!!!

WSox597
06-17-2007, 07:41 AM
He be dumb to

Cue grammar police.

southside rocks
06-17-2007, 08:20 AM
A.J. got suspended just for getting punched in the jaw. As I said then I'll say again: MLB is a joke.

If you're talking about the Barrett brawl, AJ got fined but not suspended. (And Mike North paid his fine, IIRC.) Brian Anderson (I genuflect at the mention of his name) got a suspension, for swinging at John Mabry; and of course Barrett got a 10-game suspension. But AJ didn't get a suspension in that one.

jabrch
06-17-2007, 09:46 AM
Lee was "throwing jaws and threw a punch" because he got thrown at for no reason what so ever. I think was pretty clear where it was aimed and what was thrown.

I don't think you intentionally throw at a guy in a 0-0 game. That makes no sense.

balke
06-17-2007, 10:08 AM
I don't think you intentionally throw at a guy in a 0-0 game. That makes no sense.


I don't think you SHOULD, but he did. Even if it wasn't intentional, it was his hardest straightest fastball and it went straight at Derek Lee's head. That's dangerous, and Young should've stayed on the mound after throwing it.

voodoochile
06-17-2007, 10:14 AM
I don't think you intentionally throw at a guy in a 0-0 game. That makes no sense.

Haven't read this entire thread and I won't because it really doesn't matter to me, but I did see some highlights and wanted to fill in a blank that maybe others don't know about.

One highlight showed a closeup of the exchange between Lee and the pitcher after Lee stopped halfway up the firstbase line. I couldn't see what Lee said, but the pitcher clearly said the words, "sorry" and "it's my fault" before Lee threw the punch. I lipread pretty well because of my hearing loss and I could see that plain as day.

Frontman
06-17-2007, 10:22 AM
The phrases you describe came from people who played baseball at the highest level. "No-no" came from an abbreviateion for "no-hit, no-run game" and was invented by people who couldn't fit "no-hitter" into headlines and perpetuated by people who show no respect for the game.

So my "No No 56" Sox shirt is meant to be disrespectful to the game and its players?

And here I was thinking the exact opposite.........

balke
06-17-2007, 10:24 AM
Haven't read this entire thread and I won't because it really doesn't matter to me, but I did see some highlights and wanted to fill in a blank that maybe others don't know about.

One highlight showed a closeup of the exchange between Lee and the pitcher after Lee stopped halfway up the firstbase line. I couldn't see what Lee said, but the pitcher clearly said the words, "sorry" and "it's my fault" before Lee threw the punch. I lipread pretty well because of my hearing loss and I could see that plain as day.


I saw that too. Pitchers pretty much say that eveytime. I read "I wasn't trying to... (insert swing)" I believe him partly, but still believe you stay on the mound when you hit someone that hard. That had to be a 90+ pitch.

CubKilla
06-17-2007, 10:50 AM
I don't think you SHOULD, but he did.

On a 1-2 pitch after Lee fouled one off over the plate? Yeah..... ok.

Now, some are speculating that Lee might not have been hit at all and that the ball richoceted (sp?) off of his bat.

slavko
06-17-2007, 11:18 AM
I don't think you intentionally throw at a guy in a 0-0 game. That makes no sense.

What's a good time to throw a purpose pitch? Anytime. The pitch was not that far off the plate and Lee turned into rather than away from it, but it was a purpose pitch aimed under the chin. Lee's roundhouse right was telegraphed. Something straight and quick might have made contact with the target. At least he didn't throw it with his "surgically repaired wrist."

chaerulez
06-17-2007, 11:30 AM
Does anyone know where there is a clip of Soriano showboating? I am fascinated that it is being labeled as "moonwalking to first base".

And as far as losing a one hitter, didn't we managed to lose a two hitter for Buerhle this year? Sadly, I think we are the pot calling the kettle black in this situation. But still fun to see it happen to the Cubs.

I want to see a clip of this as well. I don't doubt that Soriano did it, but I want to see what happened. And yeah, the Sox have lost games just as badly as this. Freddy's almost no no in Minny in '05 comes to mind. And this season has just been full of ugly losses. So the term "only the Cubs can lose like this" means nothing, it's a fluff statement with nothing to it. It's "bad baseball teams lose games like this".

chaerulez
06-17-2007, 11:35 AM
To answer my own question, you can find Soriano's home run trot on cubs.com just go to the top plays archive under multimedia and look at the June 15th game. At first they cut out when he starts to walk backwards but you get a couple replays that show everything. It was bush league. If the Padres wanted to send a message they should've just hit him in the midsection the next time he was up. I don't think Young was throwing at Lee, but if he was that's uncalled for too.

viagracat
06-17-2007, 11:51 AM
To answer my own question, you can find Soriano's home run trot on cubs.com just go to the top plays archive under multimedia and look at the June 15th game. At first they cut out when he starts to walk backwards but you get a couple replays that show everything. It was bush league. If the Padres wanted to send a message they should've just hit him in the midsection the next time he was up. I don't think Young was throwing at Lee, but if he was that's uncalled for too.

I just saw the clip. You don't do that on the field. The fact that Soriano didn't get hit today lends support to the notion that Lee wasn't hit on purpose.

The Cubs do lead the league in one thing: bush-league players and antics. But I'm surprised Lee joined the club; I always thought he was pretty classy.

I'm guessing warnings will be issued even before the game starts today, so don't expect any trouble. Neither team needs suspensions or potential injury, especially the Cubs with Lee looking at 2 or 3 games off.

SoxandtheCityTee
06-17-2007, 11:56 AM
I saw that too. Pitchers pretty much say that eveytime. I read "I wasn't trying to... (insert swing)" I believe him partly, but still believe you stay on the mound when you hit someone that hard. That had to be a 90+ pitch.

And yet Lee's explanation (heard on the radio this morning) was "I didn't like what he [Young] said." Huh?

Anyway, funny incident all the way around. The Cub troll showing up in this thread is hilarious. He waits for a Cubbie surge coinciding with a Sox slump --- waiting waiting waiting waiting -- and then, his time finally arrived, he posts about a tough loss in the season when the Sox won the World Series! Almost as inept as the boxing skills of the boys in blue. Good laughs have been hard to come by lately, so I enjoyed this one.

DickAllen72
06-17-2007, 12:03 PM
If you're talking about the Barrett brawl, AJ got fined but not suspended. (And Mike North paid his fine, IIRC.) Brian Anderson (I genuflect at the mention of his name) got a suspension, for swinging at John Mabry; and of course Barrett got a 10-game suspension. But AJ didn't get a suspension in that one.
Oh yeah, that's right, he did get fined which was BS. He also got thrown out of the game for getting punched in the mouth after a clean play and not retaliating. Like I said, what a joke.

CubKilla
06-17-2007, 12:05 PM
I just saw the clip. You don't do that on the field.

Definitely. But I guess when you're making $136 million and you just hit your 11th HR IN JUNE, you gotta try to make each one memorable in one way or the other to try and justify being overpaid.

balke
06-17-2007, 12:11 PM
On a 1-2 pitch after Lee fouled one off over the plate? Yeah..... ok.

Now, some are speculating that Lee might not have been hit at all and that the ball richoceted (sp?) off of his bat.


I think it matters more that it was headed right where his head was, and it was Youngs hardest pitch. And I think those people are liars.

TDog
06-17-2007, 12:45 PM
So my "No No 56" Sox shirt is meant to be disrespectful to the game and its players?

And here I was thinking the exact opposite.........


I wouldn't find that disrespectfull to the Buehrle if I saw it, but the shirt does a lousy job of communicating your celebration of his no-hitter.

I would read the shirt to mean you are opposed to trading Buehrle. Maybe someone who is jazzed up on ESPN-speak would read it differently, but unless you are attempting to express both your love of his greatest game while poking fun at the dumbing down of America AND your desire to see him not traded, you are being ambiguous. Using the date 4-18-07 would have been clearer.

I just can't imagine the words "no-no" coming out of Vin Scully's mouth. I can't imagine Bob Gibson being congratulated on his "no-no". "No-no" is so Chris Berman.

TomBradley72
06-17-2007, 01:32 PM
I just can't imagine the words "no-no" coming out of Vin Scully's mouth. I can't imagine Bob Gibson being congratulated on his "no-no". "No-no" is so Chris Berman.

"No-no" is a common phrase for referring to "no hit/no run" games...it's been part of the language of the game for at least the last 35 years...probably longer.

Dan the Man
06-17-2007, 01:58 PM
Yesterday after the game some Cub fan jackass called into The Score saying things like "The Padres are a joke. I mean, they can't even win a playoff game!? That's terrible. They are a horrible team."

Hub Arkush managed to say "The Cubs haven't really won much in the last 99 years either." Cubbie fan continued his Pad's suck speech, then Hub goes "They have the best record in the National League.":cool:

TDog
06-17-2007, 02:34 PM
"No-no" is a common phrase for referring to "no hit/no run" games...it's been part of the language of the game for at least the last 35 years...probably longer.

Yes, editors used it in headlines when "no-hitter" wouldn't fit, and they did it long after the term "no-hit no-run game" fell out of favor as being stilted -- just as you would see newpapers use the term "solons" to refer to legislators in one-column headlines, even though a reporter wouldn't dare use the word in the body of the news story. In the body of sports stories, you wouldn't see the term no-no. You wouldn't hear Vin Scully say that someone has pitched a no-no. There is too much poetry in the way he says "no-hitter." The default use of "no-no" comes from people think the phrase is cute. Many don't even know what it means. I've heard people say that Andy Hawkins a game despite pitching a no-no, which is impossible to do. When you hear pitchers talking about their careers, they don't talk about their "no-nos" or having "no-nos" going into the ninth inning.

Its use as a default term for no-hitter has been popularized by the people at ESPN because it fits in with the cuteness of the network. It's highly unlikely that in 1971, at a time when "no-no" would make it into headlines, a reporter could have dared to try to get away with asking Bob "'s your uncle" Gibson about his "no-no."

Frontman
06-17-2007, 02:56 PM
I wouldn't find that disrespectfull to the Buehrle if I saw it, but the shirt does a lousy job of communicating your celebration of his no-hitter.

I would read the shirt to mean you are opposed to trading Buehrle. Maybe someone who is jazzed up on ESPN-speak would read it differently, but unless you are attempting to express both your love of his greatest game while poking fun at the dumbing down of America AND your desire to see him not traded, you are being ambiguous. Using the date 4-18-07 would have been clearer.

I just can't imagine the words "no-no" coming out of Vin Scully's mouth. I can't imagine Bob Gibson being congratulated on his "no-no". "No-no" is so Chris Berman.

They were selling them at the Cell in the custom T-shirt shop. I didn't even come up with it.

The only reason I did not ask for the date on their is that I wasn't in attendance at the game. To me, to even give the suggestion I was at the game would be disrespectful.

However, I like the "no no" idea as being double meaning, saying don't trade Mark. I'll stick with that.

:wink:

pearso66
06-17-2007, 03:20 PM
Yes, editors used it in headlines when "no-hitter" wouldn't fit, and they did it long after the term "no-hit no-run game" fell out of favor as being stilted -- just as you would see newpapers use the term "solons" to refer to legislators in one-column headlines, even though a reporter wouldn't dare use the word in the body of the news story. In the body of sports stories, you wouldn't see the term no-no. You wouldn't hear Vin Scully say that someone has pitched a no-no. There is too much poetry in the way he says "no-hitter." The default use of "no-no" comes from people think the phrase is cute. Many don't even know what it means. I've heard people say that Andy Hawkins a game despite pitching a no-no, which is impossible to do. When you hear pitchers talking about their careers, they don't talk about their "no-nos" or having "no-nos" going into the ninth inning.

Its use as a default term for no-hitter has been popularized by the people at ESPN because it fits in with the cuteness of the network. It's highly unlikely that in 1971, at a time when "no-no" would make it into headlines, a reporter could have dared to try to get away with asking Bob "'s your uncle" Gibson about his "no-no."

I don't think that anyone is trying to be "cute" by using the term no-no. I think, just like a lot of other words are now that computer chat has taken off, it is just shortened, or a type of short hand. Do you shorten out a phrase online, like IMO? I'm sure though, if you were talking to someone, talking not typing, you wouldn't say IMO, you would actually say in my oppinion. I would never say no-no while talking to someone, I would refer to it as No-hitter, but while typing, I might put no-no. It's quicker to write.

As for people using No-no in normal talking, you have to remember that a lot of people here grew up in the ESPN/Sportscenter age. Many people probably heard it said on there for years, and it doesn't seem like a horrible thing to them to say it. I really don't think it's that big of a deal that someone says no-no, but I would say no-hitter myself.

SBSoxFan
06-18-2007, 10:54 AM
Haven't read this entire thread and I won't because it really doesn't matter to me, but I did see some highlights and wanted to fill in a blank that maybe others don't know about.

One highlight showed a closeup of the exchange between Lee and the pitcher after Lee stopped halfway up the firstbase line. I couldn't see what Lee said, but the pitcher clearly said the words, "sorry" and "it's my fault" before Lee threw the punch. I lipread pretty well because of my hearing loss and I could see that plain as day.

It was also clear that Lee said "What did you say?" Before moving towards Young and throwing his punch.

Dick Allen
06-18-2007, 12:00 PM
I go to one Cub game a year and was there on Saturday, surrounded, of course, by simpletons and idiots (excluding my wife:redneck). Anyway, given the game situation and the count, I can't believe that Young could have been throwing at Lee. Pitchers are human and will not always throw the ball where they intend to. And if you look at a replay and notice Young's reaction when Lee got hit, I don't think you could say he was trying to hit him.

WoogSox
06-18-2007, 05:43 PM
I agree, I don't think that he was intentionally throwing at his wrist. Usually when someone gets plunked they get it in the numbers. Things happened because Peavy opened his big mouth the day before. I also think that Lee said,"That pitch got away from you right?" and then Yound said "Ya" Lee didnt agree and that is when Young told him to go to first. That is what set Lee off.

StillMissOzzie
06-18-2007, 06:04 PM
"No-no" is a common phrase for referring to "no hit/no run" games...it's been part of the language of the game for at least the last 35 years...probably longer.

No way! It's "no runs / no hits", as in the 1st part of "no runs, no hits, no errors, and no one left on base" :D:

I've heard people say that Andy Hawkins (lost) a game despite pitching a no-no, which is impossible to do.

Its use as a default term for no-hitter has been popularized by the people at ESPN because it fits in with the cuteness of the network.
Hawkins didn't pitch a no-no, he gave up 4 runs, even though they were all unearned.
The White Sox' Joe Cowley earned hiself a nickname "Dr. No", as he gave up a run without giving up any hits (walked the bases loaded and gave up a sac fly, IIRC). He didn't earn that 2nd "no".

As for people using No-no in normal talking, you have to remember that a lot of people here grew up in the ESPN/Sportscenter age. Many people probably heard it said on there for years, and it doesn't seem like a horrible thing to them to say it.

I would agree that ESPN has probably contributed to the widespread use of phrases like "no-no". Hell, I remember the days before "hitting a walkoff [single, double, HR] "

SMO
:gulp:

TDog
06-18-2007, 08:13 PM
.... Hell, I remember the days before "hitting a walkoff [single, double, HR] "

SMO
:gulp:

I despise the adjective "walkoff" as well, preferring the more accurate "game-ending." When a player ends the game with a home run, ensuing celebrations rarely are so subdued that that the winning side to simply walks off the field. Walking off the field is more likely in a lopsided game that end with a routine out.

I haven't seen ESPN in more than a decade, but I understand that network is to blame for walkoff. The last I looked, walkoff and no-no were both unacceptable except in direct quotes under AP style, but walkoff, unfortunately may have entered the language. It is discouraging that sports language, which used to be molded by such luminaries as Ring Lardner and Grantland Rice, is now in the hands of ESPN.

Paulwny
06-18-2007, 08:49 PM
I despise the adjective "walkoff" as well, preferring the more accurate "game-ending." When a player ends the game with a home run, ensuing celebrations rarely are so subdued that that the winning side to simply walks off the field. Walking off the field is more likely in a lopsided game that end with a routine out.

I haven't seen ESPN in more than a decade, but I understand that network is to blame for walkoff. The last I looked, walkoff and no-no were both unacceptable except in direct quotes under AP style, but walkoff, unfortunately may have entered the language. It is discouraging that sports language, which used to be molded by such luminaries as Ring Lardner and Grantland Rice, is now in the hands of ESPN.


I believe "walk-off" refers to watching the losing team walking off the field.

TDog
06-18-2007, 08:58 PM
I believe "walk-off" refers to watching the losing team walking off the field.

Yes, but a player who hits the walkoff home run doesn't walk off the field. Calling a game-ending home run a walkoff is like calling a home run with two on in the bottom of the ninth to end a one-run game a game-losing home run because it lost the game for the team on defense.

DrCrawdad
06-19-2007, 12:37 AM
“It hit me in the hand and the chin also. But I have a big chin. Strong. I understand the game. If (Lilly) hit me on my buttocks, I understand, but to hit me in the head, I don’t understand that.” — Edgar Renteria, on being hit by Ted Lilly in the first inning of the Braves’ 5-4 win over the Cubs on Sunday. Lilly was ejected and the benches and bullpens emptied as a result of the incident.

Of course to Cubbie tool Mike Murphy Young threw at Lee's head but when it comes to Lilly, well it merely hit Renteria NOT that it hit him in the head.