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A. Cavatica
06-15-2007, 09:48 PM
How does Ozzie let Andy Gonzalez bat?

JB98
06-15-2007, 09:49 PM
How does Ozzie let Andy Gonzalez bat?

Because only Owens and Hall were left on the bench. :dunno:

BiggestFan14
06-15-2007, 09:49 PM
No one else was really left to bat though. At least they made it interesting.

WhiteSox5187
06-15-2007, 09:49 PM
How does Ozzie let Andy Gonzalez bat?
Who else was on the bench??? I don't mind that, but what in the hell was he doing swining at the first pitch??? The guy has just walked the past two hitters and you're swinging at the first ****ing pitch??? God dammit!

CLR01
06-15-2007, 09:49 PM
I've got Montell Jordon playing in my head.

Brian26
06-15-2007, 09:49 PM
How does Ozzie let Andy Gonzalez bat?

How does Gonzalez not take a pitch in that situation after two straight walks?

Lorenzo Barcelo
06-15-2007, 09:49 PM
How does Ozzie let Andy Gonzalez bat?

I don't there there were any infielders left to sub in...The highlight was Pitt playing Journey while Jenks was warming up.

Grzegorz
06-15-2007, 09:50 PM
How does Ozzie let Andy Gonzalez bat?

Better yet why not take a couple of pitches from a pitcher who is obviously struggling?

Rikirk
06-15-2007, 09:51 PM
Oh well...

Another day another donut.

:angry:

JB98
06-15-2007, 09:51 PM
How does Gonzalez not take a pitch in that situation after two straight walks?

Because he's a rookie and he doesn't know what the hell he's doing.

Cellview22
06-15-2007, 09:53 PM
The pitch was right down the middle.. perfect pitch to crush. He has more of a chance of hitting that than an 0-1 or an 0-2. Either way, there was no way Gonzalez was gitting a hit, even if it had been Aardsma on the mound.

WhiteSox5187
06-15-2007, 09:53 PM
Better yet why not take a couple of pitches from a pitcher who is obviously struggling?
Honestly!! How could you NOT do that? If it's Paulie, fine, I can live with that Paulie has earned the right to swing at the first pitch if he thinks he can hit it. But Andy ****ing Gonzalez? Uh, no. Kid, you're a rookie. You take that god damned pitch. That bat should have been resting on his shoulders. I don't care if it was a changeup down the middle, a rookie takes that ****ing pitch. That's what really pisses me off.

Boondock Saint
06-15-2007, 09:53 PM
Gload would have gone deep on one of those bases loaded situations... :cower:

crazyozzie02
06-15-2007, 09:53 PM
3 bases loaded situations in that game and we only plated 3 runs. Unbelivable!!!:angry:

Brian26
06-15-2007, 09:53 PM
Because he's a rookie and he doesn't know what the hell he's doing.

I love the coaching staff, but shouldn't someone (ie Razor, Cora or Ozzie) tell him before he goes up there to take a pitch or two?

lostfan
06-15-2007, 09:53 PM
Because he's a rookie and he doesn't know what the hell he's doing.
You know, in Little League the pitcher was wild all game so I just stood up in the batter's box and refused to swing. I was 10 and I knew these things. You'd think a guy who's been playing professional baseball a few years would know that.

Brian26
06-15-2007, 09:54 PM
Gload would have gone deep on one of those bases loaded situations... :cower:

He did at Camden last year. :D:

WhiteSox5187
06-15-2007, 09:54 PM
Because he's a rookie and he doesn't know what the hell he's doing.
I don't care if he's a god damned rookie, he better have a rough idea of what the hell he's doing. If we're calling up rookies that dont' know what the hell they're doing we're in trouble and the whole farm system oughta be wiped out.

PeoriaSoxFan
06-15-2007, 09:54 PM
Because only Owens and Hall were left on the bench. :dunno:

I'd rather see hall, but then he wouldn't have an IF. This team is beyond bad right now. I pull up Gameday and see these averages in our starting lineup in order: .246, .167, .241, .227, .240, .250, .206, .200. Our highest avg. is Terrero. Two all star caliber players below .250 in mid-June. 2-8 in interleague play? 1-9 in the last 10, getting our butts kicked by mediocre to bad NL teams? When will this end? The lineup simply doesn't have enough talent with all of these injuries. I have no idea what KW can do to fix this, but I don't see this changing, until at least Pods and Erstad come back.

lostfan
06-15-2007, 09:54 PM
I absolutely can't believe we got owned by the Pirates.

Grzegorz
06-15-2007, 09:54 PM
Because he's a rookie and he doesn't know what the hell he's doing.

That doesn't cut it; how long has this guy been playing the game?

Take a pitch...

Where's the kangaroo court when you need it???

mccoydp
06-15-2007, 09:54 PM
Pitiful, stank-ass game.

Another losing effort. These guys need to get it together soon, but, sadly, I don't see it happening.

WhiteSox5187
06-15-2007, 09:55 PM
I love the coaching staff, but shouldn't someone (ie Razor, Cora or Ozzie) tell him before he goes up there to take a pitch or two?
I think if your a coach you merely assume he knew that. I knew to do that when I was ten years old!

CLR01
06-15-2007, 09:55 PM
I love the coaching staff, but shouldn't someone (ie Razor, Cora or Ozzie) tell him before he goes up there to take a pitch or two?


If only the Sox employed someone to teach young hitters how to hit. :(:

JB98
06-15-2007, 09:55 PM
I love the coaching staff, but shouldn't someone (ie Razor, Cora or Ozzie) tell him before he goes up there to take a pitch or two?

Well, I assume the Sox have a take sign. I never played organized ball above high school, but every team I ever played on had a take sign.

Agree with previous posters. If it's Konerko, Thome, Dye or AJ, they can swing at the first ball in that situation. An established major-league hitter knows what he's doing. A rookie like Gonzalez, take a pitch.

PeoriaSoxFan
06-15-2007, 09:55 PM
3 bases loaded situations in that game and we only plated 3 runs. Unbelivable!!!:angry:


Check that - 2 runs. be even madder (i.e., two mean faces :angry::angry:)

Cellview22
06-15-2007, 09:56 PM
Pitiful, stank-ass game.

Another losing effort. These guys need to get it together soon, but, sadly, I don't see it happening.

I see it happening, especially when the Grinder returns, along with Pods. Then we won't have to see GoneZales and the rest of the gang who don't belong in the majors yet.

A. Cavatica
06-15-2007, 09:57 PM
The kid's a rookie utility infielder who's only with the team because of injuries. He is not ready to swing the bat in the majors, much less in a crucial situation.

Since it doesn't matter who plays D if they don't at least tie it up, you bat Hall and you make do.

JB98
06-15-2007, 09:57 PM
I don't care if he's a god damned rookie, he better have a rough idea of what the hell he's doing. If we're calling up rookies that dont' know what the hell they're doing we're in trouble and the whole farm system oughta be wiped out.

That's a good idea. The way this farm system produces, we'd hardly miss it.

JB98
06-15-2007, 09:58 PM
You know, in Little League the pitcher was wild all game so I just stood up in the batter's box and refused to swing. I was 10 and I knew these things. You'd think a guy who's been playing professional baseball a few years would know that.

Hey, don't shoot the messenger.

PeoriaSoxFan
06-15-2007, 09:58 PM
Wow, the Pitt starter is 2-9 this year and he dominated us. Every stat and fact that is rattled off about this team is truly unbelievable and sickening. Is this our pennance for winning the WS? If so, I gues it was worth it, but I sure hate it. Time to forget about it and go have a beer I guess.

CLR01
06-15-2007, 09:58 PM
16-19 isn't so bad guys...http://whitesoxinteractive.com/chisox716/shrug.gif

DrewSox56
06-15-2007, 09:59 PM
Oh well...

Another day another donut.

:angry:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f322/fugnutz/5-dunkindonuts.jpg

"I'll be up early tomorrow. Big day.... could be #....."

JB98
06-15-2007, 09:59 PM
Wow, the Pitt starter is 2-9 this year and he dominated us. Every stat and fact that is rattled off about this team is truly unbelievable and sickening. Is this our pennance for winning the WS? If so, I gues it was worth it, but I sure hate it. Time to forget about it and go have a beer I guess.

He allowed only three hits in seven innings.

His best start of the year. Every pitcher has their best start of the year against the Sox.

nsolo
06-15-2007, 10:00 PM
and currently, Kansas City is winning. Another step down the stars to the basement.:whiner:

lostfan
06-15-2007, 10:00 PM
Hey, don't shoot the messenger.
Oh I'm not shooting the messenger. I'm just saying... it was flipping stupid. Bad baseball.

DickAllen72
06-15-2007, 10:01 PM
This team is now a steaming pile of dog****.

DrewSox56
06-15-2007, 10:01 PM
If only the Sox employed someone to teach young hitters how to hit. :(:

Or someone to show veterans where they're ****ing up too.... Either or...

lostfan
06-15-2007, 10:02 PM
This team is now a steaming pile of dog****.
I kind of get tired of saying it over and over, but it's true.

At least when teams like the Royals suck they look like major leaguers when they do it.

getonbckthr
06-15-2007, 10:02 PM
Bring Pods up soon. If he is gonna get hurt then he will get hurt in the minors as well. At least let him get hurt here.

Cellview22
06-15-2007, 10:03 PM
What's up with Konerko? Just when I thought he was getting back on track, I've never seen him look so lost at the plate. This is surreal watching this lineup perform so pathetically every night.

Brian26
06-15-2007, 10:03 PM
First caller on Rongey (Dave from Berwyn) is asking why Gonzalez swung at the first pitch.

Rongey's response is that the first pitch might have been the best pitch he would see, so he wanted to jump on it. :?:

Rongey admits he doesn't understand it though.

WhiteSox5187
06-15-2007, 10:03 PM
I see it happening, especially when the Grinder returns, along with Pods. Then we won't have to see GoneZales and the rest of the gang who don't belong in the majors yet.
I think that this team could get the 1927 Yankees on the field and it wouldn't matter. We're too far behind and I think that this dangerous "How are we going to lose TODAY?" mentality has taken over. It doesn't matter who we bring back. I think it's time to start looking forward to next eyar.

Brian26
06-15-2007, 10:04 PM
Dave from Berwyn is going after the minor league farm director because the Sox can't find guys in the Rule 5 draft like Fabio Castro or Sean Marshall :?:

Then he gives the minor league farm director credit for getting Loaiza into camp in 2003 :?: Loaiza came from Toronto....

DrewSox56
06-15-2007, 10:06 PM
First caller on Rongey (Dave from Berwyn) is asking why Gonzalez swung at the first pitch.

Rongey's response is that the first pitch might have been the best pitch he would see, so he wanted to jump on it. :?:

Rongey admits he doesn't understand it though.


A base hit would've tied it for Chrissakes.

For once, guys who could've scored on 3rd and 2nd with a hit... ****, Walker probably told him to do it. He's a secret agent for the Cubs.

WhiteSox5187
06-15-2007, 10:07 PM
Dave from Berwyn is going after the minor league farm director because the Sox can't find guys in the Rule 5 draft like Fabio Castro or Sean Marshall :?:

Then he gives the minor league farm director credit for getting Loaiza into camp in 2003 :?: Loaiza came from Toronto....
Well SOMETHING in that farm system needs to change when I look at the way our highly touted guys play, it frightens me.

A. Cavatica
06-15-2007, 10:07 PM
So what was the lineup at the end there? I think it was

Cintron (ph for Jenks)
Gonzalez
Konerko
Dye
Pierzynski
Terrero
Thome
Fields
Mackowiak

which means Cintron, Fields, and Mack were in the game and could have covered the left side of the infield. Or is the pitcher required to bat in one of those spots?

JB98
06-15-2007, 10:07 PM
First caller on Rongey (Dave from Berwyn) is asking why Gonzalez swung at the first pitch.

Rongey's response is that the first pitch might have been the best pitch he would see, so he wanted to jump on it. :?:

Rongey admits he doesn't understand it though.

Well, there's a school of thought that says a pitcher will want to get ahead in the count after he walks a couple guys. So, he'll throw a meatball assuming the batter is going to take a strike. A hitter who is prepared to swing at said meatball can do some damage.

But as I posted earlier, Thome, PK, JD and AJ would have a green light for me in that spot. All others need to take one.

Lip Man 1
06-15-2007, 10:07 PM
Mahomes was 2-9 with an ERA over 5 and he looks like Cy Young. These guys are clueless right now.

This is even worse then the stretch in 91 that cost them the division.

Lip

Grzegorz
06-15-2007, 10:08 PM
First caller on Rongey (Dave from Berwyn) is asking why Gonzalez swung at the first pitch.

Rongey's response is that the first pitch might have been the best pitch he would see, so he wanted to jump on it. :?:

Rongey admits he doesn't understand it though.

There are many in the queue to discuss the issue of swinging at the first pitch.

Chris (Rongey) there is nothing to understand; the pitcher is wild. A smart baseball player takes a few pitches and makes that pitcher throw a pitch that he, as the hitter, can handle.

WhiteSox5187
06-15-2007, 10:08 PM
Mahomes was 2-9 with an ERA over 5 and he looks like Cy Young. These guys are clueless right now.

This is even worse then the stretch in 91 that cost them the division.

Lip
This is the worst stretch I can ever remember the Sox playing...my memory doesn't stretch back too far though.

Brian26
06-15-2007, 10:08 PM
A base hit would've tied it for Chrissakes.

For once, guys who could've scored on 3rd and 2nd with a hit... ****, Walker probably told him to do it. He's a secret agent for the Cubs.

You realize Gonzalez is batting .167, right?

What if Gonzalez walked and then you let Konerko swing at the first pitch?

WhiteSox5187
06-15-2007, 10:09 PM
Well, there's a school of thought that says a pitcher will want to get ahead in the count after he walks a couple guys. So, he'll throw a meatball assuming the batter is going to take a strike. A hitter who is prepared to swing at said meatball can do some damage.

But as I posted earlier, Thome, PK, JD and AJ would have a green light for me in that spot. All others need to take one.
I agree, if you have a guy up there who is an established major league hitter and has shown he can crush one, he can swing. But when you have a guy who has what, two major league hits, he takes. If he even THINKS about swinging he oughta be sent down.

Brian26
06-15-2007, 10:09 PM
Last time the Sox were nine games below .500 was August of 2002 (they were 61-70).

lumpyspun
06-15-2007, 10:09 PM
No one else was really left to bat though. At least they made it interesting.

It's a pretty sad life we lead these days when an interesting game consists of being down 3 in the ninth inning to the Pittsburgh Pirates.

Oh well, I'll tune in tomorrow too, and the next day, and the next day...

Cellview22
06-15-2007, 10:10 PM
I think that this team could get the 1927 Yankees on the field and it wouldn't matter. We're too far behind and I think that this dangerous "How are we going to lose TODAY?" mentality has taken over. It doesn't matter who we bring back. I think it's time to start looking forward to next eyar.

We're not gonna see postseason this year, or even get anyone's hopes up, but it would be nice to see some exciting baseball again. I wasn't even excited tonight with the bases loaded in the bottom of the 9th and only down by 2.. my heart wasn't beating any faster.. because it was obvious Gonzalez wasn't going anywhere but back to the dugout. Just to see some exciting competitive baseball in the coming weeks would be refreshing to see. And I think this team can do it with Pods and Erstad back in the lineup, because it's all about mentality. Once we get back to winning, we won't want to lose anymore, and we'll find ways to win again. Just look at the Cubs and the Yankees.. they looked almost as pathetic as us not that long ago, and they've already turned it around and are looking like they can beat anyone.

WhiteSox5187
06-15-2007, 10:10 PM
You realize Gonzalez is batting .167, right?

What if Gonzalez walked and then you let Konerko swing at the first pitch?
As others have said and I will restate, Konerko is a major league hitter and has earned the right to swing at any pitch he thinks he can kill. Andy Gonzalez? No. He takes that pitch. He takes the first pitch against a wild pitcher who just walked in a run.

Brian26
06-15-2007, 10:11 PM
This is the worst stretch I can ever remember the Sox playing...my memory doesn't stretch back too far though.

You must have missed the years 1986-1989.

oeo
06-15-2007, 10:11 PM
Because only Owens and Hall were left on the bench. :dunno:

Put Owens up there. It was apparent (at least to me) that the guy was having trouble with lefties. He got Thome to swing at a pitch at his neck, but other than that he didn't seem comfortable up there with AJ, Mack, or Cintron.

EDIT: And yes, if you look at his stats, he is much better against righties, than lefties. I'm not saying Owens would have done anything, but I think he was the best choice. I mean it's not like Gonzalez is a 10-year vet, you're taking a chance with either one, but considering lefties have been pretty successful against Capps, Owens seems like the logical choice.

JB98
06-15-2007, 10:11 PM
I agree, if you have a guy up there who is an established major league hitter and has shown he can crush one, he can swing. But when you have a guy who has what, two major league hits, he takes. If he even THINKS about swinging he oughta be sent down.

JB crosses fingers, hopes Pods and Erstad are ready soon.

See ya, Gonzalez and Owens.

WhiteSox5187
06-15-2007, 10:13 PM
You must have missed the years 1986-1989.
Yea, I did. I was born in '87 and I was just looking at the records, the 1989 team is the worst of my lifetime. But I have no memory of that team. I have bits and pieces of memories from the 1991 team, I remember going to a couple of games and seeing Carlton Fisk bat. I also remember the playoffs in 1993 but the first team I really really remember start to finish is the 1994 team.

Frater Perdurabo
06-15-2007, 10:14 PM
I'm not saying they don't care. But they are playing like they don't care.

I used to listen to as many games as possible on XM. I used to take the radio when I travelled, just to listen to Sox games. I'm going to Washington next week and San Francisco in two weeks. I don't think I'm going to take the XM radio. If this continues, I just may save my $12 per month and temporarily cancel my subscription. If these players don't care - or don't play like they care - why should I?

Thank goodness CMT is playing reruns of The Dukes of Hazzard. At least I have another entertainment option instead of beating my head against the wall listening to or watching the Sox find another way to lose.

I still want them to win. I still hope they can win. But listening to the games or watching the games is a waste of my time right now. There are more enjoyable things in my life right now.

I prefer chronic diarrhea to a Sox losing streak. The problem is that the latter gives me the former.
:(:

WhiteSox5187
06-15-2007, 10:16 PM
I'm not saying they don't care. But they are playing like they don't care.

I used to listen to as many games as possible on XM. I used to take the radio when I travelled, just to listen to Sox games. I'm going to Washington next week and San Francisco in two weeks. I don't think I'm going to take the XM radio. If this continues, I just may save my $12 per month and temporarily cancel my subscription. If these players don't care - or don't play like they care - why should I?

Thank goodness CMT is playing reruns of The Dukes of Hazzard. At least I have another entertainment option instead of beating my head against the wall listening to or watching the Sox find another way to lose.

I still want them to win. I still hope they can win. But listening to the games or watching the games is a waste of my time right now. There are more enjoyable things in my life right now.

I prefer chronic diarrhea to a Sox losing streak. The problem is that the latter gives me the former.
:(:
I don't think it's that they don't care, i think that guys like Paulie and Thome must be going nuts right now, I think it's that they are mentally beaten. And the other guys (Uribe, Mack, Gonzalez) they just suck.

JB98
06-15-2007, 10:29 PM
I'm not saying they don't care. But they are playing like they don't care.

I used to listen to as many games as possible on XM. I used to take the radio when I travelled, just to listen to Sox games. I'm going to Washington next week and San Francisco in two weeks. I don't think I'm going to take the XM radio. If this continues, I just may save my $12 per month and temporarily cancel my subscription. If these players don't care - or don't play like they care - why should I?

Thank goodness CMT is playing reruns of The Dukes of Hazzard. At least I have another entertainment option instead of beating my head against the wall listening to or watching the Sox find another way to lose.

I still want them to win. I still hope they can win. But listening to the games or watching the games is a waste of my time right now. There are more enjoyable things in my life right now.

I prefer chronic diarrhea to a Sox losing streak. The problem is that the latter gives me the former.
:(:

I turned tonight's game off in the second inning. We fell behind 3-1, and I said, "This one's over." And I was right. Three runs is just too much for us.

My soul is rotting from the inside out watching this season.

Frater Perdurabo
06-15-2007, 10:31 PM
You must have missed 1986-1989.

In 86-89, we all knew the team wasn't good; poor pitching & poor hitting. Fisk, Baines, Calderon, Guillen & Thigpen were the only decent players (Bobby Bonilla and Tom Seaver got traded in 86). Other than that, the teams were filled with a bunch of AAAA crap and would-be mediocre journeymen. How many All-Stars were on the 86-89 Sox?

This is far worse. The Sox actually are wasting a starting five good enough to win the World Series if they just had an average pen and an average offense. How many Sox were All-Stars in 2006? How many of them suck this year?

We expected 86-89 to be mediocre to bad. 2007 had legit World Series aspirations.

Hitmen77
06-15-2007, 10:35 PM
....meanwhile, Greg Walker remains safely employed because he has no part in accountability for this fiasco.

On the bright side, at least Dewon Day is looking better in the pen......Oh wait, now he's on the DL.

CLR01
06-15-2007, 10:37 PM
....meanwhile, Greg Walker remains safely employed because he has no part in accountability in this fiasco.


Of course he doesn't, the hitting coach holds no responsibility for the teams hitting. :rolleyes:

Cellview22
06-15-2007, 10:40 PM
The whole team is mentally beaten. It started with the bullpen, and now everyone is struggling. I was trying to remember when it all started going downhill, and after some research, I think it may have started spiraling after the Sunday, May 27th game vs TB. Still 3 games above .500 (never thought they'd go under .500 at that time), over 38K in attendance, still in the race, and apparently MacDougal gets an unsigned letter.

From whitesox.com "As his teammates dressed to go to Minnesota, Andrew Sisco packed for Charlotte. Near the clubhouse door, departing White Sox got a look at an unsigned, and particularly vulgar, letter to Mike MacDougal telling him to go back to Scotland, or worse, Kansas City." Ozzie is extremely frustrated with the bullpen, along with Pablo going down, and he tells the media he may need to reshuffle the bullpen.

It seems like last year and in '05, Ozzie did a good job of helping the BP boost their confidence, especially with the young guys. Now it seems he's lost control and is putting too much pressure on them, threatening to send them down to dreaded Charlotte, when he's venting to the media.

After this, the Sox went on a 5 game losing streak and never recovered.

Cuck the Fubs
06-15-2007, 10:40 PM
This is far worse. The Sox actually are wasting a starting five good enough to win the World Series if they just had an average pen and an average offense. How many Sox were All-Stars in 2006? How many of them suck this year?


That is why this season is driving me insane:angry::angry::angry:

The pen has been an issue for 2 years now........the bigger problem is where the hell did the offense go?!?!?!?!?!

DickAllen72
06-15-2007, 10:46 PM
The whole team is mentally beaten. It started with the bullpen, and now everyone is struggling.
It started with the offense. The bullpen performed well for the first month or so. The offense has never performed well for any lenght of time this season, except for just a few days starting with that third game of the Cub series.

DoItForDanPasqua
06-15-2007, 10:49 PM
....meanwhile, Greg Walker remains safely employed because he has no part in accountability for this fiasco.


If the bathrooms were dirty they would fire the person in charge of the janitors for incompetence. If the scoreboard listed the Sox as scoring more than three runs in a game, they would fire the scoreboard operator for not being able to count. If the team had the worst hitting in the American League...

Frater Perdurabo
06-15-2007, 10:52 PM
If the team had the worst hitting in the American League...

...we keep the hitting coach because he's a good soldier, never criticized the organization, how it's run, or who owns it. :kukoo:


Why can't you get this through your thick heads?

CLR01
06-15-2007, 10:53 PM
If the bathrooms were dirty they would fire the person in charge of the janitors for incompetence. If the scoreboard listed the Sox as scoring more than three runs in a game, they would fire the scoreboard operator for not being able to count. If the team had the worst hitting in the American League...


No way. The janitor wasn't the one who made the mess, the scoreboard operator isn't the one who didn't score the extra runs and the Walk isn't the one who can't hit.

alohafri
06-15-2007, 10:54 PM
How does Ozzie let Andy Gonzalez bat?

Here is my question regarding Gonzalez. He is listed as an infielder. Why does Ozzie insist on throwing him, Mack, Ozuna, etc. in the outfield? Do you want an outfielder? Tell Kenny, "get me an outfielder.":angry:

This organization stinks from the top down. Cut them all and bring up Charlotte!

ShoelessJoeS
06-15-2007, 10:55 PM
No comment.

CLR01
06-15-2007, 10:55 PM
...we keep the hitting coach because he's a good soldier, never criticized the organization, how it's run, or who owns it. :kukoo:


Why can't you get this through your thick heads?


Don't forget a horrible poker player who loves to play the game. Gotta love a guy who raises with a high card of 6. :smile:

DoItForDanPasqua
06-15-2007, 10:56 PM
It started with the offense. The bullpen performed well for the first month or so. The offense has never performed well for any lenght of time this season, except for just a few days starting with that third game of the Cub series.

Right, the bullpen, and the pitching staff, as a whole, were outstanding. I even remember someone starting a thread, in April, claiming this was one of the best bullpens of all time. http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=86957&highlight=best+bullpen

Hawk was saying over and over (and we know he rarely repeats himself) that WHEN the offense comes around, this team is going to be great, because the pitching is so good.

alohafri
06-15-2007, 10:57 PM
We are heading to the Quad Cities tomorrow to watch some guys that really want to play the game. This team is for the birds.

Frater Perdurabo
06-15-2007, 10:58 PM
This team is for the birds.

Buzzards?

DoItForDanPasqua
06-15-2007, 11:02 PM
The White Sox are the practical joke of the American League at the expense of the fans, quoth DoItForDanPasqua, and laughed. The disciples nearest him wept, seeing the White Sox offense. Others laughed, seeing the recent World Series banner. Others wept. Others laughed. Others wept because they couldn't see the Joke, and others laughed lest they should be thought not to see the Joke. But though DoItForDanPasqua laughed openly, he wept secretly; and really he neither laughed nor wept. Nor did he mean what he said.

LongLiveFisk
06-15-2007, 11:04 PM
Yea, I did. I was born in '87 and I was just looking at the records, the 1989 team is the worst of my lifetime. But I have no memory of that team. I have bits and pieces of memories from the 1991 team, I remember going to a couple of games and seeing Carlton Fisk bat. I also remember the playoffs in 1993 but the first team I really really remember start to finish is the 1994 team.

The '89 team was pretty bad (and yes, the '86-'88 teams were quite unimpressive as well) but I'll bet any of them could beat this team. At least back then I remember us being able to bunt runners over and get a key hit every now and then. It's just that back then we were lacking in overall talent.

Maybe we are these days too. :?:

Frater Perdurabo
06-15-2007, 11:05 PM
The White Sox are the practical joke of the American League at the expense of the fans, quoth DoItForDanPasqua, and laughed. The disciples nearest him wept, seeing the White Sox offense. Others laughed, seeing the recent World Series banner. Others wept. Others laughed. Others wept because they couldn't see the Joke, and others laughed lest they should be thought not to see the Joke. But though DoItForDanPasqua laughed openly, he wept secretly; and really he neither laughed nor wept. Nor did he mean what he said.

:rolling:

DoItForDanPasqua
06-15-2007, 11:07 PM
The '89 team was pretty bad (and yes, the '86-'88 teams were quite unimpressive as well) but I'll bet any of them could beat this team. At least back then I remember us being able to bunt runners over and get a key hit every now and then. It's just that back then we were lacking in overall talent.

Maybe we are these days too. :?:

Check out what the salaries were 18 years ago. Only Fisk made over a million dollars.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teamstats/roster.php?y=1989&t=CHA

Frater Perdurabo
06-15-2007, 11:09 PM
The '89 team was pretty bad (and yes, the '86-'88 teams were quite unimpressive as well) but I'll bet any of them could beat this team. At least back then I remember us being able to bunt runners over and get a key hit every now and then. It's just that back then we were lacking in overall talent.

Maybe we are these days too. :?:

Back then, in the old days (I'm 30), players generally were better schooled in the fundamentals. Also, because Comiskey Park's OF was so huge, and it was so much harder to hit a homer, those teams had to use the fundamentals if they wanted to score runs.

I think you are right, though. This team, apart from the starting pitching, isn't that talented. Thome is the only future HOF-caliber hitter on the team.

Even many Sox fan's favorite sacred cow, Paul Konerko, just isn't as good as they think he is.

voodoochile
06-15-2007, 11:11 PM
How does Ozzie let Andy Gonzalez bat?

Is he the guy who made the final out? I was watching on my laptop and was only half paying attention. When the tying run reached second base, I kind of tuned in.

I don't understand why he was allowed to swing at the first pitch whoever it was. That's just bad coaching considering the struggles the pitcher was having with finding the plate...

Frater Perdurabo
06-15-2007, 11:12 PM
Check out what the salaries were 18 years ago. Only Fisk made over a million dollars.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teamstats/roster.php?y=1989&t=CHA

Wasn't 1989 the year when the Twins (yes, THOSE TWINS) inked Puckett to an unprecedented $3 million/year contract, and then Oakland (OAKLAND!) signed Canseco to a $5 year, $25 million deal!
:o:

DoItForDanPasqua
06-15-2007, 11:13 PM
Back then, in the old days (I'm 30), players generally were better schooled in the fundamentals. Also, because Comiskey Park's OF was so huge, and it was so much harder to hit a homer, those teams had to use the fundamentals if they wanted to score runs.



Most of the parks were bigger then, and there were fewer teams, therefore better quality of pitching. I think it was a better game when you had to play the inside game to score runs.

DoItForDanPasqua
06-15-2007, 11:14 PM
Oakland (OAKLAND!) signed Canseco to a $5 year, $25 million deal!
:o:

But what was his OBP? He wasn't moneyball enough for that kind of cash.

Dan Mega
06-15-2007, 11:17 PM
That game was horse****. How many times did they load the bags and not score any runs (before the 9th)? Twice? Three times?

Frater Perdurabo
06-15-2007, 11:18 PM
But what was his OBP? He wasn't moneyball enough for that kind of cash.

Jose's 40-40 was as huge as his biceps. Steals were bigger back then, and 40-HR seasons were rare, too. Remember when we all went bonkers when McGwire hit 49 in his rookie year? Heck, remember how we went ape-doo-doo when Fisk hit 37 in 1985?

A. Cavatica
06-15-2007, 11:19 PM
Here is my question regarding Gonzalez. He is listed as an infielder. Why does Ozzie insist on throwing him, Mack, Ozuna, etc. in the outfield? Do you want an outfielder? Tell Kenny, "get me an outfielder.":angry:

This organization stinks from the top down. Cut them all and bring up Charlotte!

Ah! Little secret: Ozzie is not a good manager.

DoItForDanPasqua
06-15-2007, 11:21 PM
Jose's 40-40 was as huge as his biceps. Steals were bigger back then, and 40-HR seasons were rare, too. Remember when we all went bonkers when McGwire hit 49 in his rookie year? Heck, remember how we went ape-doo-doo when Fisk hit 37 in 1985?

Yes, and we didn't have to question what was flowing through their veins. Now it doesn't even matter when someone hits 500 homers. There is a bat in the hall of fame signed by every player who has ever hit 500 homers. They are going to run out of room. I'll stop now, I'm sounding like an old man.

Frater Perdurabo
06-15-2007, 11:23 PM
Heck, remember how we went ape-doo-doo when Fisk hit 37 in 1985?

If Fisk was on this team, he'd have kicked everyone's butts around the block by now, and then gotten them hammered at McCuddy's to forget about the butt-kicking and their troubles at the plate. Of course, he'd also have torn the pitchers a new one, too.

With all due respect, AJ can't hold a candle to Fisk's ability to manage pitchers.

Viva Medias B's
06-15-2007, 11:35 PM
How the hell could we, even as bad as we have been, lose to a 3-9 pitcher? KW should start working the phones now.

DoItForDanPasqua
06-15-2007, 11:37 PM
How the hell could we, even as bad as we have been, lose to a 3-9 pitcher? KW should start working the phones now.

He can call his travel agent and book a cruise for October.

Frater Perdurabo
06-15-2007, 11:38 PM
He can call his travel agent and book a cruise for October.

He might as well start earlier, right after the trade deadline.

Nellie_Fox
06-15-2007, 11:42 PM
I'll stop now, I'm sounding like an old man.Yeah, that's my job, dammit!:angry:

SoxSpeed22
06-15-2007, 11:47 PM
This is just getting old. Something has to change soon because losing these games like this is turning into clockwork. At least the bullpen actually didn't give up runs.

Frater Perdurabo
06-15-2007, 11:54 PM
clockwork.

Hmmm. KW should adopt the anti-crime techniques from A Clockwork Orange.

I'd have the hitters watch breaking balls thrown in the dirt and every time their muscles twitched as if to swing, ammonia would spray in their eyes.

I'd have the bullpen pitchers watch video of balls being thrown more than 6 inches outside the strike zone, and get electric shocks delvered to their nipples.

I'd have Ozzie watch a game in the late innings, and every time his brain wanted to make a lefty-righty pitching switch just for the sake of doing so, he would be flogged with a cue ball in a tube sock.

Viva Medias B's
06-15-2007, 11:57 PM
This is just getting old. Something has to change soon because losing these games like this is turning into clockwork. At least the bullpen actually didn't give up runs.

If KW is working the phones, something will change...soon.

HotelWhiteSox
06-16-2007, 12:22 AM
A month ago I said that if they fired someone (you know who) the next day it'd be at least a month too late. It's a joke that they haven't taken any action, the players are responsible, but you send a message to the players by showing they just caused someone to lose their job. Especially when it's a guy they praise (which I just think means they like the guy who doesn't ride them hard). Too bad it's way too late now, we are out of it, as we can't even beat NL cellar teams.

But you still look at the coaching staff when our team is always making dumb mistakes, and can't come through in simple situations, whether it's fundamentls in the field or just smart approaches, as if we're a minor league club. The freakin Pirates have better fundamentals.

Hitmen77
06-16-2007, 12:26 AM
This is just getting old. Something has to change soon because losing these games like this is turning into clockwork. At least the bullpen actually didn't give up runs.

Don't worry, MacDougal and Aardsma are on their way back from Charlotte as we speak to rectify this.

Flight #24
06-16-2007, 02:56 AM
Well, on the bright side, that struggling farm system is finally going to get one of those top 10 picks we've heard about........:cool:

of course, the same guys responsible for the struggling farm system are going to be making that pick.....:(:

russ99
06-16-2007, 08:10 AM
Don't worry, MacDougal and Aardsma are on their way back from Charlotte as we speak to rectify this.

A shame about Day, he was starting to look pretty good. Not sure if Aardsma's ready to come back. Maybe if he gets hammered again KW will be forced to go outside the organization for a stinkin reliever like he should have in the first place.

I can't see why Hall wasn't put in to pinch hit, we got the guy for his hitting. I thought Ozzie was a NL-style manager. Other than the fact that Gonzalez is obviously Ozzie's favorite (he wishes he was like Ozuna) sub.

It's like Oz has lost total faith in all the hitters and won't put them in a position where they can succeed.

southside rocks
06-16-2007, 08:24 AM
If Fisk was on this team, he'd have kicked everyone's butts around the block by now, and then gotten them hammered at McCuddy's to forget about the butt-kicking and their troubles at the plate. Of course, he'd also have torn the pitchers a new one, too.

With all due respect, AJ can't hold a candle to Fisk's ability to manage pitchers.

Ron Darling was talking about this -- not about Fisk and AJ, but about the difference in ballplayers 20 years ago and now, and how they handle pressure, losing streaks, adversity compared to how they did when he was playing. (He's a TV broadcaster for the Mets and I was watching a Mets game because I like to watch baseball and lately it seems like the Sox haven't been playing much ... baseball.)

Anyway, he talked about how 'back in the day' if a team was in a slump, the players would hang together for hours after the game and dissect things, and on the plane to the next city they would discuss it endlessly and would generally bang things out; but now, he said, it's 25 guys with their iPods on the plane, and an hour after the game ends, the locker room is empty. The whole "team" thing means something other than what it did 20 years ago, and very different from 40 years ago.

Of course, the money's a function of that ... when a utility infielder is making $2 million a year and a starting pitcher is making $12 million, and they have multi-year contracts, the attitude and motivations are going to be not what they were when those players made a lot less and played year-to-year. And fewer players will take open positions of leadership on teams.

Needless to say, Darling is not a fan of current conditions when it comes to team psychology. I thought his comments were interesting, and you're right about AJ and Pudge, but IMO a lot of that is the difference in the times they played.

It's horrible to see the White Sox team being so ineffectual and seem to be so accepting of it. That bothers me almost more than the losses.

Sad
06-16-2007, 09:04 AM
this is beyond pathetic...
somebody take me out & shoot me already

BeviBall!
06-16-2007, 10:27 AM
This team is a ****ing embarrassment. Not even two years removed from a Championship. ****ing joke.

soxrme
06-16-2007, 10:34 AM
Is he the guy who made the final out? I was watching on my laptop and was only half paying attention. When the tying run reached second base, I kind of tuned in.

I don't understand why he was allowed to swing at the first pitch whoever it was. That's just bad coaching considering the struggles the pitcher was having with finding the plate...
they just had a run walked in and he swings at the first pitch:angry:Just bad baseball and why is he playing lf anyway. Where are all these talented kids we supposedly had. The scouting staff has been around a long time and our farm system is not good at all and these are the same guys lead by KW who said these bullpen guys were power pitchers who threw strikes.

Tragg
06-16-2007, 11:14 AM
I see that Gonzales is now playing outfield. Is he a serious prospect, or is he just another utility player that this coaching staff loves to wheel out there day after day?

The Immigrant
06-16-2007, 11:18 AM
I see that Gonzales is now playing outfield. Is he a serious prospect, or is he just another utility player that this coaching staff loves to wheel out there day after day?

The latter. It is an absolute embarrassment that he's our starting LF with Sweeney and Anderson in Charlotte.

:chunks

oeo
06-16-2007, 02:01 PM
The latter. It is an absolute embarrassment that he's our starting LF with Sweeney and Anderson in Charlotte.

:chunks

Gonzalez can play the infield, can Sweeney and Anderson do that? If you're going to send someone down, I think it should be Owens...bring Sweeney back up; we need the infield abilities of Gonzalez right now.

FedEx227
06-16-2007, 02:17 PM
Gonzalez can play the infield, can Sweeney and Anderson do that?

That wasn't the argument.

The argument is why a utility infielder is playing LF when two OF prospects are sitting in the minors.

FedEx227
06-16-2007, 02:32 PM
That was not The Immigrant's 'argument.' He asked why Gonzalez was up here while Sweeney and Anderson were down at Charlotte.

His exact post:

"It is an absolute embarrassment that he's our starting LF with Sweeney and Anderson in Charlotte."

I don't think he cares that Gonzalez is up, but rather the fact that one of our OF prospects either Sweeney or Anderson isn't up. They don't have to be one or the other there's plenty of guys we could send down including some of our pitching that could help fill that OF void.

JB98
06-16-2007, 02:32 PM
That wasn't the argument.

The argument is why a utility infielder is playing LF when two OF prospects are sitting in the minors.

Not to mention Pods, who is hitting .300 in Charlotte.

oeo
06-16-2007, 02:34 PM
His exact post:

"It is an absolute embarrassment that he's our starting LF with Sweeney and Anderson in Charlotte."

I don't think he cares that Gonzalez is up, but rather the fact that one of our OF prospects either Sweeney or Anderson isn't up. They don't have to be one or the other there's plenty of guys we could send down including some of our pitching that could help fill that OF void.

I misunderstood. :redface: