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soxwon
06-14-2007, 08:20 PM
Post your 5-10 things you would do to make this team, a playoff contender in 08.
We can look back in march to see who had the most come true!!!!
List things that are possible, not pure fantasy (like signing Jeter)

WhiteSox5187
06-14-2007, 08:24 PM
1. Re-sign Buerhle
2. Trade Jose
3. Trade JD
4. Sign Ichiro in the off season
5. Get a MLB caliber shortstop
6. Find someone from the bullpen who can throw strikes
7. Sign Rowand, maybe?

Obviously those are pretty broad, but I think they are moves that make sense and can help the team.

soxwon
06-14-2007, 08:24 PM
Ill go with
1 ozzie gone as manager.
2 New Hitting Coach
3 Arod at ss or 3b
4 Fields starting 3b or a veteran(thats not on current roster)
5 Rowand in center.
6 Garland-Vazquez-Danks-Masset-Foyd or Gio in rotation
7 Younger reliever in 240-280 lb range to set up Jenks.
8 Dye-Pods-Uribe all gone
9 Talk of a Home run deck
10 Sweeney starting in LF.

JB98
06-14-2007, 08:26 PM
Post your 5-10 things you would do to make this team, a playoff contender in 08.
We can look back in march to see who had the most come true!!!!

1. New shortstop.
2. Make a power-hitting acquisition for the outfield.
3. Resign Buerhle.
4. Give Sweeney a shot.
5. Pray Crede comes back healthy.
6. Deal Contreras and hopefully get either No. 1 or No. 2 on this list.
7. Find two veteran right-handers for the bullpen that can throw strikes.

That's all I got.

santo=dorf
06-14-2007, 08:34 PM
New hitting coach
Non tender/trade Pods
DFA/Trade Erstad
Trade Mack
Trade Cintron
Trade Dye
Non tender/trade Crede
resign Iguchi
trade Uribe/reject option
trade Buehrle, but sign him in the offseason ala Ponson in 2003

kittle42
06-14-2007, 08:36 PM
Re-sign Buehrle

Hope Dye gets hot and trade him so you get great value.

Trade Iguchi if there's a taker.

Get rid of Erstad.

Keep Podsednik if he looks OK when he returns, but only as a 4th OF.

Decide what to do about Crede. If he goes and they play Fields, you have to replace another position (CF or 2B) with a genuine slugger.

See if Contreras can be dumped.

Sign a top starter to replace Contreras (or Buehrle)

Go get a few middle relievers. Real ones, not ones that had a 6.00 ERA in Kansas City.

Fire Greg Walker.


This team still has enough there to get back to championship level, IF they remedy the above.

Lip Man 1
06-14-2007, 08:36 PM
I'll give it a shot. In no particular order

1. Sign Ichiro to play either LF or RF
2. Sign Castillo to play 2nd base.
3. Sign Eckstein to play short and bat 9th (2nd lead off guy in essence.)
4. Sign Buehrle to anchor the rotation.
5. Sign Garland to a three or four year extension.
6. Rebuild the bullpen by adding some proven vets. (2? 3 guys???)
7. Make a deal to bring in another power bat for the outfield either LF or RF
8. Sign a few guys from the Twins minor league / scouting department.
9. Look for some risk / reward type guys for bench and minor league depth.
10. Exersize the option on Erstadt for OF depth.


Guys like Ichiro, Castillo provide some speed at the top of the order, Eckstein provides grit and guts at the bottom of it.

You'll have plenty of pop with the guy acquired in a trade, Konerko, Thome, Crede (or Fields) and A.J.

You'll have rebuilt the bullpen to set up Jenks.

You'll have some depth on the club if you keep guys like Erstadt, Cintron and Mack.

Bottom line, the Sox desperately need speed...guys who can bunt, steal bases, advance runners, hit to the opposite field.

The need BALANCE.

This provides it.

Lip

whitesoxwilkes
06-14-2007, 08:45 PM
Resign Buehrle.
Find high OBP/SB guys to have at the top of the lineup instead of guys who had one good OBP/SB season.
Let Iguchi walk.
Trade JD. (That hurts, I like him)
Shore up 'pen with "higher profile" reliefr pitchers instead of Coop reclamation projects.
For ****s sake, give the Andersons and Sweeneys of the world a chance to prove themselves before putting them on a flight to Charlotte.

getonbckthr
06-14-2007, 08:46 PM
1) Trade Burls, Dye, Iguchi, Contreras, Mackowiak and Uribe
2) Sign Arod for SS no matter the cost budget should have no effect getting the best modern baseball player (if he opts out)
3) Sign Castillo for 2B
4) Sign Ichiro (can happen if they accept Arods deal as non-budgeted)
5) No more Pods
6) Gio replace Burls, Floyd replaces Jose
7) Use Crede's back surgery to our advantage. Give him a 4/32 million extension beginning in 09. Crede would be stupid to say no as he has no guarentee of returning, its a gamble for the Sox but if he comes back healthy its a steal in this market
8) No more super utility guys (UberUtes) for my bench give me a 1B/3B, 2b/SS, C and 1-2 OF.
9) Get a garbage pitcher for the bullpen.

JB98
06-14-2007, 08:49 PM
1) Trade Burls, Dye, Iguchi, Contreras, Mackowiak and Uribe
2) Sign Arod for SS no matter the cost budget should have no effect getting the best modern baseball player (if he opts out)
3) Sign Castillo for 2B
4) Sign Ichiro (can happen if they accept Arods deal as non-budgeted)
5) No more Pods
6) Gio replace Burls, Floyd replaces Jose
7) Use Crede's back surgery to our advantage. Give him a 4/32 million extension beginning in 09. Crede would be stupid to say no as he has no guarentee of returning, its a gamble for the Sox but if he comes back healthy its a steal in this market
8) No more super utility guys (UberUtes) for my bench give me a 1B/3B, 2b/SS, C and 1-2 OF.
9) Get a garbage pitcher for the bullpen.

Can we expect to contend next year with Gio, Danks and Floyd in the rotation? :o:

MRM
06-14-2007, 08:52 PM
New hitting coach
Non tender/trade Pods
DFA/Trade Erstad
Trade Mack
Trade Cintron
Trade Dye
Non tender/trade Crede
resign Iguchi
trade Uribe/reject option
trade Buehrle, but sign him in the offseason ala Ponson in 2003

Your answer is to get rid of everyone except Iguchi? That's a helluva addition by subtraction list.

MarySwiss
06-14-2007, 08:53 PM
I'll give it a shot. In no particular order

1. Sign Ichiro to play either LF or RF
2. Sign Castillo to play 2nd base.
3. Sign Eckstein to play short and bat 9th (2nd lead off guy in essence.)
4. Sign Buehrle to anchor the rotation.
5. Sign Garland to a three or four year extension.
6. Rebuild the bullpen by adding some proven vets. (2? 3 guys???)
7. Make a deal to bring in another power bat for the outfield either LF or RF
8. Sign a few guys from the Twins minor league / scouting department.
9. Look for some risk / reward type guys for bench and minor league depth.
10. Exersize the option on Erstadt for OF depth.


Guys like Ichiro, Castillo provide some speed at the top of the order, Eckstein provides grit and guts at the bottom of it.

You'll have plenty of pop with the guy acquired in a trade, Konerko, Thome, Crede (or Fields) and A.J.

You'll have rebuilt the bullpen to set up Jenks.

You'll have some depth on the club if you keep guys like Erstadt, Cintron and Mack.

Bottom line, the Sox desperately need speed...guys who can bunt, steal bases, advance runners, hit to the opposite field.

The need BALANCE.

This provides it.

Lip
Great analysis, Lip! And your bottom line is gospel. Whether all your signings are within the range of practical politics or not, however, only time will tell.

JB98
06-14-2007, 08:55 PM
I'll give it a shot. In no particular order

1. Sign Ichiro to play either LF or RF
2. Sign Castillo to play 2nd base.
3. Sign Eckstein to play short and bat 9th (2nd lead off guy in essence.)
4. Sign Buehrle to anchor the rotation.
5. Sign Garland to a three or four year extension.
6. Rebuild the bullpen by adding some proven vets. (2? 3 guys???)
7. Make a deal to bring in another power bat for the outfield either LF or RF
8. Sign a few guys from the Twins minor league / scouting department.
9. Look for some risk / reward type guys for bench and minor league depth.
10. Exersize the option on Erstadt for OF depth.


Guys like Ichiro, Castillo provide some speed at the top of the order, Eckstein provides grit and guts at the bottom of it.

You'll have plenty of pop with the guy acquired in a trade, Konerko, Thome, Crede (or Fields) and A.J.

You'll have rebuilt the bullpen to set up Jenks.

You'll have some depth on the club if you keep guys like Erstadt, Cintron and Mack.

Bottom line, the Sox desperately need speed...guys who can bunt, steal bases, advance runners, hit to the opposite field.

The need BALANCE.

This provides it.

Lip

Why not Ichiro for CF?

MRM
06-14-2007, 08:58 PM
2) Sign Arod for SS no matter the cost budget should have no effect getting the best modern baseball player (if he opts out)
3) Sign Castillo for 2B
4) Sign Ichiro (can happen if they accept Arods deal as non-budgeted)
7) Use Crede's back surgery to our advantage. Give him a 4/32 million extension beginning in 09. Crede would be stupid to say no as he has no guarentee of returning, its a gamble for the Sox but if he comes back healthy its a steal in this market

You may as well have said "trade payrolls with the Yankees"

MRM
06-14-2007, 08:58 PM
Why not Ichiro for CF?

Because he's not a CF, maybe?

MRM
06-14-2007, 09:00 PM
Find high OBP/SB guys to have at the top of the lineup instead of guys who had one good OBP/SB season.

Yeah, because those guys are cheap and available on every street corner.

whitesoxwilkes
06-14-2007, 09:04 PM
Yeah, because those guys are cheap and available on every street corner.

This is WSI, not Soxtalk. We use teal here.

The Immigrant
06-14-2007, 09:05 PM
Yeah, because those guys are cheap and available on every street corner.

Way to add to the discussion.

To answer your other trollish comment, Ichiro is a perfectly fine CF.

JB98
06-14-2007, 09:09 PM
Because he's not a CF, maybe?

Tell that to the Mariners. He's playing a pretty good CF for them this year.

Lip Man 1
06-14-2007, 09:14 PM
I suggested Ichiro for a corner spot simply because that's where he's played most of his career.

I agree he can easily play center but there would be a slight period of adjustment playing that position in a new park.

I'd rather him be comfortable in a new environment as soon as possible.

But if you can find two corner outfielders who can provide some speed and punch (as opposed say to another slow footed slugger) then go for it and take a shot in center.

Basically in my scenario the Sox say farewell and thank you to Dye, Podsednik, possibly Crede (although unless he returns and shows he's OK this season I can't see anyone wanting him), Uribe, Iguchi, most of the bullpen and I wouldn't be surprised if they moved either Contreras or Vasquez.

The rotation would be Buehrle, Garland, Either Jose or Javier, Danks and someone 'on the cheap' (and hope for another Loiaza). They'd probably concentrate on the back end of the rotation in the off season heading into 2009.

Lip

santo=dorf
06-14-2007, 09:19 PM
Your answer is to get rid of everyone except Iguchi? That's a helluva addition by subtraction list.
It's pretty much the approach I'd take for this deadline. If you don't plan on having them next year, why not get rid of them now for something of value?

Lip, you are the first person I have seen to recommend picking up Erstad's bloated option of $3.5 million. He's not worth it. Terrero at the league minimum (just about a tenth of the value of Grindy's option) is a hell of a better bet for depth and he'll put up better numbers.

santo=dorf
06-14-2007, 09:29 PM
7) Use Crede's back surgery to our advantage. Give him a 4/32 million extension beginning in 09. Crede would be stupid to say no as he has no guarentee of returning, its a gamble for the Sox but if he comes back healthy its a steal in this market

Please explain to me how Crede coming off of back surgery would be a "steal" at $8 million per year.

Even in his career year his OBP ranked 20th amongst 22 regular third basemen.

He is so overrated and just not worth it. It's like Magglio again minus Maggs' six good seasons compared to Crede's one good season. Time to move on.

CWSpalehoseCWS
06-14-2007, 09:30 PM
1) Resign Mark Buehrle.
2) Trade Jermaine Dye.
3) Sign either Andrew Jones or Ichiro for CF.
4) Trade Jose Contreras.
5) Give Ryan Sweeney a starting job in the OF (either RF or LF).
6) Add proven relievers for the bullpen (1 or 2).
7) Add depth to our farm system.
8) Trade Brian Anderson (why see him waste away in the minors if Ozzie will not play him?)
9) Let Podsednik walk and find some speed elsewhere.
10) Get rid of Alex Cintron (either trade or let him walk).

soxwon
06-14-2007, 09:37 PM
Try not to criticize someones changes too heavilly, unless its absolutely stupid>

thomas35forever
06-14-2007, 09:42 PM
1) Re-sign Buehrle
2) Sign Ichiro as LF
3) Re-sign JD
4) Fire Walker
5) Trade Iguchi and Mackowiak
6) Sign a 2B
7) Move Fields to SS
8) Dump Uribe
9) Release MacDougal and Sisco
10) Release Gavin Floyd if he sucks in ST

JB98
06-14-2007, 09:44 PM
I suggested Ichiro for a corner spot simply because that's where he's played most of his career.

I agree he can easily play center but there would be a slight period of adjustment playing that position in a new park.

I'd rather him be comfortable in a new environment as soon as possible.

But if you can find two corner outfielders who can provide some speed and punch (as opposed say to another slow footed slugger) then go for it and take a shot in center.

Basically in my scenario the Sox say farewell and thank you to Dye, Podsednik, possibly Crede (although unless he returns and shows he's OK this season I can't see anyone wanting him), Uribe, Iguchi, most of the bullpen and I wouldn't be surprised if they moved either Contreras or Vasquez.

The rotation would be Buehrle, Garland, Either Jose or Javier, Danks and someone 'on the cheap' (and hope for another Loiaza). They'd probably concentrate on the back end of the rotation in the off season heading into 2009.

Lip

Hypothetically, if we signed Ichiro, I just don't know who'd we have that would be better in CF than him.

I think it's extremely likely that JD will be elsewhere for 2008. If he isn't traded, he'll leave via free agency. IMO, he'll get more money than he probably should, and the Sox would be wise not to get in that bidding war for a guy who is rapidly turning into a DH.

If we have Ichiro in CF and Sweeney at the other corner outfield, that fulfills the goal of getting more athletic. The other corner outfield would need to be filled by someone with some punch. The question is, who?

delben91
06-14-2007, 09:47 PM
I'll give it a shot. In no particular order

1. Sign Ichiro to play either LF or RF
2. Sign Castillo to play 2nd base.
3. Sign Eckstein to play short and bat 9th (2nd lead off guy in essence.)
4. Sign Buehrle to anchor the rotation.
5. Sign Garland to a three or four year extension.
6. Rebuild the bullpen by adding some proven vets. (2? 3 guys???)
7. Make a deal to bring in another power bat for the outfield either LF or RF
8. Sign a few guys from the Twins minor league / scouting department.
9. Look for some risk / reward type guys for bench and minor league depth.
10. Exersize the option on Erstadt for OF depth.


Guys like Ichiro, Castillo provide some speed at the top of the order, Eckstein provides grit and guts at the bottom of it.

You'll have plenty of pop with the guy acquired in a trade, Konerko, Thome, Crede (or Fields) and A.J.

You'll have rebuilt the bullpen to set up Jenks.

You'll have some depth on the club if you keep guys like Erstadt, Cintron and Mack.

Bottom line, the Sox desperately need speed...guys who can bunt, steal bases, advance runners, hit to the opposite field.

The need BALANCE.

This provides it.

Lip

Not sure if all 10 of those are possible, but the motivation behind the list sounds right on to me (bolded).

Eckstein and Castillo could work well in this lineup, especially if the Sox maintain some power with Konerko and Thome (and potentially Fields as well if he can carry over even some of his success in Charlotte).

It'll be very interesting to see which direction the front office decides to go in.

Frater Perdurabo
06-14-2007, 09:57 PM
Some of these are great ideas, provided that Jerry discovers a forest full of money trees. Yes, I'm beating a dead horse, but here's my plan, in chronological order:

1. Re-sign Buehrle
2. PK & Contreras to the Angels for Kotchman (1B), Shields (RP) and Aybar (SS)
3. Dye to the Padres for Linebrink
4. Sign Ichiro (RF) & Eckstein (2B)
5. Let Iguchi go; decline Uribe's option
6. Sign FA Jermaine Dye (LF, 1B; DH v. LHP)
7. Re-sign Linebrink

Lineup: Ichiro, Eckstein, Thome, Dye, Kotchman, Crede/Fields, AJ, Aybar, BA
Bench: Sweeney (LF/RF), Cintron (2B/SS), Mack (3B, 1B), Terrero (CF), Hall (C)
Rotation: Buehrle, Garland, Vazquez, Danks, Gio/Floyd/Haeger/Russell/Masset
Pen: Jenks, Shields, Linebrink, Thornton, MacDougal, Gio/Floyd/Haeger/Russell/Masset/Aardsma/Sisco/Vasquez

hose
06-14-2007, 10:20 PM
Any thoughts of signing Andruw Jones is a pipe dream......his agent is Boras.

peeonwrigley
06-14-2007, 10:26 PM
1. Do what it takes to keep #56
2. Find a taker for Jose, Dye, Cintron, Mack, Uribe this season.
3. Lock up AJ long term
4. Acquire middle infield prospects
5. If nothing better is there, extend Iguchi for 2 years
6. Find a balance w/ control guys and power arms in the 'pen
7. Use the 2nd half to see whether or not the kids can play
8 Make a splashy free agent signing to fill a need. (outfield, middle infield)... aside from PK after the WS, when was the last time the Sox did this?
9. Do something to get some balls on this team. I'm sick of seeing "Here we go again, time to **** down our leg" baseball anytime they catch a bad break. I do feel like Ozzie is the guy to manage such a team, but the Sox need a few more fiery players.

WhiteSox5187
06-14-2007, 10:42 PM
People have said signing Eckstein at short, and while Uribe can only dream of being as good as Eckstein every time Eckstein goes to throw the ball I get nervous. The guy has to wind up to throw the ball. Now if there is a way we could find another shortstop and sign Eckstein at second (which would mean letting go of Iguchi) I would like that very much...also how long is AJ under contract??

Hunker down
06-14-2007, 10:48 PM
1. Resign Buehrle. Anchors your staff.
2. Play Sweeney in left field. Need to find out if he can play. THIS year.
3. Joe Crede He gone! 1 good year is not enough.
4. Get rid of anyone who has played for Kansas City. Once a Royal, always a Royal.
5. Keep Iguchi. His stats are near the top for A.L second basement since 05.
6. Give Ozzie a tape of how he managed in 2004 & 2005. Started out as a National League manager, has turned into an American League Manager.
7. Trade Contreras for whatever young arms you can get for him. Gives you salary space.
8. Get rid of Cintron, Mackowiak, Uribe.
9. Sign Ichiro to lead-off and play right field.
10. Kenny needs to find a shortstop, and no, hes not paying $25 millon a year for A-Rod.
11. Bring back Bee Bee Richards

getonbckthr
06-14-2007, 10:51 PM
Please explain to me how Crede coming off of back surgery would be a "steal" at $8 million per year.

Even in his career year his OBP ranked 20th amongst 22 regular third basemen.

He is so overrated and just not worth it. It's like Magglio again minus Maggs' six good seasons compared to Crede's one good season. Time to move on.
It truly would be a gamble. A move like this would be carefully danced around pending how Crede would begin to heal.

getonbckthr
06-14-2007, 10:54 PM
Alex Rodriguez is the one guy I feel Kenny and Jerry would blow away the budget for. They tried before until Texas just went insane. Personally I feel Kenny views himself as an average GM until he finds a way to get him. In most of our eyes his place in history is set as a GM, personally for himself I think he views this as his "defining moment" as a GM.

Flight #24
06-14-2007, 10:55 PM
1. Trade Contreras for prospects ($10M decrease)
2. Trade Dye for prospects ($7M decrease)
3. Trade Iguchi for prospects ($3M decrease)
3. Resign Buehrle to 4 or 5 yrs @ $16M per ($6.5M increase)
4. Sign ARod for $25M/yr ($25M increase)
5. Trade Uribe for a rosin bag ($5M decrease)
6. Call up and play Anderson, Sweeney, Owens, Fields. These guys play at least 4 times/week. See who can hack it over the remaining season.
7. Start giving Fields some time in LF, esp if the reports on Crede's recovery are positive
8. If Crede's doing well, possibly deal him in mid-08 if Fields and 2 of the young OFs pan out in 2007. Or resign him and deal a youngster.


Rotation: Burls-Garland-Vazquez-Danks-Gio/Floyd/Haeger/Broadway/etc.

Lineup: Pods/Owens/Erstad(CF)- Sweeney/Anderson(RF) - ARod (SS) - Thome (DH) - Konerko (1B) - AJ (C) - Crede (3B) - Fields (LF) - Cintron/Gonzalez (2B)

If Crede's dealt, Fields goes to 3B, Pods/Owens/Erstad to LF, and Anderson to CF.

Payroll goes up by about $10-15M, but if/when you deal Crede, it drops down a bit and regardless still isn't outrageous (<$120M I think). And I figure resigning Burls and signing ARod to be good for a revenue bump. And you'd have a nice mix of youth and experience, and a team that can contend for a while, which should add to mid-long term revenues.

And if you can, focus on getting an MI prospect back to shore up 2B. If necessary, deal the vets with one (not more) of the newly acquired guys not named Danks, Gio, Masset or one of the young OFs for a better OF prospect.

Or if you can, resign Iguchi to ~$5M and deal Mack to offset.

Noneck
06-14-2007, 10:59 PM
There are some a great suggestions here and I think most of them would work.

But with any of these suggestions #1 has to be Change of Ownership, Noway Nochance payroll will go up next year, it will decrease, How much?
I don't know.

getonbckthr
06-14-2007, 11:03 PM
There are some a great suggestions here and I think most of them would work.

But with any of these suggestions #1 has to be Change of Ownership, Noway Nochance payroll will go up next year, it will decrease, How much?
I don't know.
I disagree the taste of success followed by such aggravating and dissapointing failures can cause the opposite. Almost an obsession for that taste to come back. Once you had something then lost it you do whatever you can to get it back or find something better, in baseball there is nothing better.

Nellie_Fox
06-14-2007, 11:03 PM
But with any of these suggestions #1 has to be Change of Ownership, Noway Nochance payroll will go up next year, it will decrease, How much?
I don't know.Unbelievable. How many championships has Reinsdorf brought to the city? Just who do you think is waiting out there who would be a better owner?

Fire Ozzie. Fire the coaches. Trade or release almost everybody. Get new owners. Do you not understand that constantly changing everything is a sure formula for long-term suckitude?

Noneck
06-14-2007, 11:08 PM
I disagree the taste of success followed by such aggravating and dissapointing failures can cause the opposite. Almost an obsession for that taste to come back. Once you had something then lost it you do whatever you can to get it back or find something better, in baseball there is nothing better.

As a fan I totally agree with you but the chairman is a busniessman 1st and fan 2nd.

MRM
06-14-2007, 11:12 PM
Alex Rodriguez is the one guy I feel Kenny and Jerry would blow away the budget for. They tried before until Texas just went insane. Personally I feel Kenny views himself as an average GM until he finds a way to get him. In most of our eyes his place in history is set as a GM, personally for himself I think he views this as his "defining moment" as a GM.

Ding. Ding. Ding. We have a winner. Kenny and JR are so obsessed with ARod that the ONLY way the payroll increases next year is if they can sign the guy. They not only were a major player (or so they thought) in trying to sign him as a F.A. but apparently made substantial attempts to trade for him a couple of times since.

I honestly believe JR wants to win while being financially intelligent at the same time, but history suggests he'd break the bank on Alex in the right circumstance. He really wanted Albert Belle and broke the bank (and budget) to get him. He REALLY REALLY wants Alex Rodriguez by all indications. The question is, does ARod want Chicago? Well, If I were thinking about chasing the all-time homerun record, I can't think of many better places than U.S. cellular to do it...

Noneck
06-14-2007, 11:14 PM
Unbelievable. How many championships has Reinsdorf brought to the city? Just who do you think is waiting out there who would be a better owner?

Fire Ozzie. Fire the coaches. Trade or release almost everybody. Get new owners. Do you not understand that constantly changing everything is a sure formula for long-term suckitude?

All I know is that the chairman bases salaries on incoming revenue and that will be less than this year. So only different ownership would agree to increasing salaries which most of the suggestions here would entail.

MRM
06-14-2007, 11:15 PM
Unbelievable. How many championships has Reinsdorf brought to the city? Just who do you think is waiting out there who would be a better owner?

Fire Ozzie. Fire the coaches. Trade or release almost everybody. Get new owners. Do you not understand that constantly changing everything is a sure formula for long-term suckitude?

To be fair, people have been calling for Reinsdorfs head for years because he wouldn't spend money. Old memories die hard. That said, he's definately changed that philosophy over the last few seasons. I'll take the JR of 2007 over the JR of 1987 anyday.

Nellie_Fox
06-14-2007, 11:16 PM
All I know is that the chairman bases salaries on incoming revenue and that will be less than this year. So only different ownership would agree to increasing salaries which most of the suggestions here would entail.But just who do you think that owner would be? How many billionaires are there, and how many of them are willing to operate a team at a loss just for their ego?

MRM
06-14-2007, 11:19 PM
All I know is that the chairman bases salaries on incoming revenue and that will be less than this year. So only different ownership would agree to increasing salaries which most of the suggestions here would entail.

Most of the suggestions here would entail spending twice as much as revenue dictates without the possibility of revenue jumping in tandum. That would simply be STUPID from a business standpoint. So, unless you find a moron fan-owner like Daniel Snyder to buy the team, despite how much money he loses, you are screwed. And if you DO find such an owner you are screwed at least as much because he wants to make decisions he's not qualified to make because it's his money. Ask Redskins fans how well THAT has worked out.

oeo
06-14-2007, 11:19 PM
Ill go with
1 ozzie gone as manager.
2 New Hitting Coach
3 Arod at ss or 3b
4 Fields starting 3b or a veteran(thats not on current roster)
5 Rowand in center.
6 Garland-Vazquez-Danks-Masset-Foyd or Gio in rotation
7 Younger reliever in 240-280 lb range to set up Jenks.
8 Dye-Pods-Uribe all gone
9 Talk of a Home run deck
10 Sweeney starting in LF.

That's not a rotation I'd be very confident in going into the season. You have two question marks in Masset and Floyd (or Gio), along with Vazquez not being a No. 2 starter.

And number 7...why does the weight matter? :?: Instead of looking for guys who throw 95, or weigh so much, maybe we should try to get guys that throw strikes?

Honestly, how does that team contend? Because we brought A-Rod in?

BTW, Lip, send your ideas into Kenny; I like your plan. :thumbsup:

MRM
06-14-2007, 11:20 PM
But just who do you think that owner would be? How many billionaires are there, and how many of them are willing to operate a team at a loss just for their ego?

One. And he took a once great franchise and turned it into a laughingstock in the NFL. And paid a fortune to do it...

Frontman
06-14-2007, 11:24 PM
1. Move Jose, bring up Floyd
2. Move Dye this season, play Terrero there
3. Re-sign Buehrle
4. With moving Jose and Dye, get bullpen help
5. See how Crede is recovering, if shaky; get A-Rod, no price too high
6. Get Rowand back, he'll be cheaper than Ichiro
7. Get a new hittting coach
8. Move Mackowiak and hope and pray Pods is good, if not, hope to hell Owens can improve
9. Move Brian Anderson. Talk about a White Sox fanbase divider
10. Sit back, relax, and strap it down for another season of White Sox baseball.

Noneck
06-14-2007, 11:25 PM
But just who do you think that owner would be? How many billionaires are there, and how many of them are willing to operate a team at a loss just for their ego?

I have absolutely positively no idea who that owner would be. So basically these great suggestions can only be part of someones rem cycle cause thats the only way they will be seen unless this mythical owner magically appears.

BTW: My original comment was sarcasm, I'm sorry it wasn't conveyed.

Nellie_Fox
06-14-2007, 11:26 PM
get A-Rod, no price too highEspecially when you're spending someone else's money. How's $50,000,000 a year? Too high yet?

Frontman
06-14-2007, 11:27 PM
Especially when you're spending someone else's money. How's $50,000,000 a year? Too high yet?


Well, the question is what would I do, not what I think the Sox should do. Since I don't have to come up with a budget, its all pipedreams anyways. And A-Rod will be heading to the West Coast, as its looking anyways.

MRM
06-14-2007, 11:27 PM
That's not a rotation I'd be very confident in going into the season. You have two question marks in Masset and Floyd (or Gio), along with Vazquez not being a No. 2 starter.

And number 7...why does the weight matter? :?: Instead of looking for guys who throw 95, or weigh so much, maybe we should try to get guys that throw strikes?

Well, the guys the Sox started the year with did use to throw strikes (other than Aardsma). This very forum was almost giddy with the expectations of the bullpen. I can't recall a single post questioning it.

When the Aardsma and Macdougal were sent down (that'll show 'em) many/most in here were claiming that Thornton and Jenks were the only two relievers worth keeping. Well....since then, Jenks has lost a game and Thorntons ERA has jumped up over 6. I'm still waiting for that "fire Don Cooper" thread :D:

MRM
06-14-2007, 11:29 PM
Especially when you're spending someone else's money. How's $50,000,000 a year? Too high yet?

In hindsight I'll bet Jerry would have given him $25mil. I'll bet he'd jump on giving him that now.

MRM
06-14-2007, 11:33 PM
3. Re-sign Buehrle
5. get A-Rod, no price too high


You forgot:

11. Win mega lotto 5 straight times to pay for #3 and #5 :D:

DSpivack
06-14-2007, 11:36 PM
You forgot:

11. Win mega lotto 5 straight times to pay for #3 and #5 :D:

That's more than a third of our payroll in two players. :o:

peeonwrigley
06-14-2007, 11:41 PM
The problem with signing A-Rod or Ichiro, is these guys are going to be seeking a championship first and foremost. The rest of the squad is going to have to be championship caliber to sell these guys on coming to the Sox.

If you re-sign MB, the rotation looks to be in pretty solid shape. However, the bullpen is still a mess and we're talking about plugging in unproven players at 3B and at least one outfield position.

Everyone is going to be after A-Rod and Ichiro this offseason. The Sox have to step up to the plate financially, but also have to present the best chance to win soon.

The Immigrant
06-14-2007, 11:42 PM
That's more than a third of our payroll in two players. :o:

Add Konerko, Vazquez, Garland, Contreras and Thome to the mix, and you would have almost $90mm tied up in seven players. That's insane.

MRM
06-15-2007, 12:23 AM
Try not to criticize someones changes too heavilly, unless its absolutely stupid>

So we should only criticize 4/5ths of these scenerios? :D:

MRM
06-15-2007, 12:24 AM
Add Konerko, Vazquez, Garland, Contreras and Thome to the mix, and you would have almost $90mm tied up in seven players. That's insane.

It's also likely to equal the entire budget for next year....

The Immigrant
06-15-2007, 12:25 AM
1. Trade Buehrle and Dye before the trading deadline, preferably for middle infield (particularly SS) or pitching prospects that can help us next year.

2. Re-sign Iguchi unless you get a stud 2B prospect for either Dye or Buehrle. Castillo is starting to fall apart, so pass on that.

3. Target Kosuke Fukudome, Scott Linebrink, Scott Williamson, Jason Jennings and Joe Kennedy in free agency. Try to sign at least one starter and one reliever.

4. Decline options on Uribe, Mackowiak and Erstad. Do not offer arbitration to Cintron. Offer arbitration to Podsednik but do not count on him full time.

5. Offer arbitration to Joe Crede then "gently" coerce him into signing a 3 year/$15mm deal on the eve of the arbitration hearing. Take a chance on him but limit the risk.

6. Extend Garland's contract for another 4 years with an escalating salary, giving him a $3mm raise in 2008 and a $1mm annual raise for each year thereafter.

7. Trade Contreras in the offseason to the Mets for Heilman and whatever else you can get (salary dump being the principal objective). Trade MacDougal in the offseason for prospects.

8. Let Gio and Floyd fight it out for the 5th starter spot in spring training. Move the loser into the bullpen.

9. Move Fields to LF and let Anderson and Sweeney battle it out for the last outfield spot in spring training.

10. Extend A.J. for another two years, through 2010. Give Bobby a raise.

Roster:

SP:
Garland $12mm
Vazquez $11.5mm
Jennings/Kennedy $10mm (should be much less if the latter option)
Danks serf
Gio/Floyd serf

OF:
Fukudome $7-$8mm
Fields serf
Anderson/Sweeney serf
Podsednik $2.5mm

IF:
SS serf
Iguchi $5mm
Konerko $12mm
Crede $5mm
Pierzynski $6mm
Ozuna $1mm

DH:
Thome $7mm

RP:
Heilman $1mm (arbitration eligible)
Jenks serf
Thornton $1mm
Linebrink $4mm
Williamson $3mm
Logan (LOOGY) serf

This would put our payroll at around $95mm. No A-Rod, no Ichiro, no pipe dreams - but a stronger bullpen, more speed in the lineup (at SS and OF) and a manageable (and realistic) payroll. Ideally I'd like a little more power in the OF, but we have to let our kids develop.

kitekrazy
06-15-2007, 12:45 AM
I want to see a salary cap in baseball.

Nellie_Fox
06-15-2007, 12:56 AM
I want to see a salary cap in baseball.Salary caps bring a different set of problems. If you have a hard cap like the NFL, you end up having to say goodbye to your best players any time you win a title. If you have a soft cap like the NBA, almost nobody understands it, and trades are based more on cap considerations than the needs of the teams involved.

MRM
06-15-2007, 01:15 AM
I want to see a salary cap in baseball.

Do you want to see a price floor at Wal-Mart, as well? "YOU CAN'T CHARGE 79 cents FOR A TUBE OF TOOTHPASTE EVERYONE ELSE GETS $1.50 FOR. IT'S NOT FAIR"

Salary caps are the epitome of communism. Now, I understand that it's silly to equate one to the other, but that's exactly what it is. Maybe call it progressive communism since with a salary cap the players get more than the owners, but it's still price control to make things "fair". Perhaps it's a combination of communism and socialism.

WhiteSox5187
06-15-2007, 02:23 AM
Do you want to see a price floor at Wal-Mart, as well? "YOU CAN'T CHARGE 79 cents FOR A TUBE OF TOOTHPASTE EVERYONE ELSE GETS $1.50 FOR. IT'S NOT FAIR"

Salary caps are the epitome of communism. Now, I understand that it's silly to equate one to the other, but that's exactly what it is. Maybe call it progressive communism since with a salary cap the players get more than the owners, but it's still price control to make things "fair". Perhaps it's a combination of communism and socialism.
Socialism works baby!!!!

Look, the problem is if we're interested in a total unrestricted free market then have no salary cap, but if you want everyone to be competitive then having some sort of salary cap is the right idea so it helps teams like KC...the revenue sharing plan helps a lot too.

MRM
06-15-2007, 02:34 AM
Socialism works baby!!!!

Look, the problem is if we're interested in a total unrestricted free market then have no salary cap, but if you want everyone to be competitive then having some sort of salary cap is the right idea so it helps teams like KC...the revenue sharing plan helps a lot too.

I'll agree to it the day I agree to make Walmart charge the same (or similar) price as their competator for a plant stand. IOW, never.

I don't see K-Mart going out of business or Sears complaining they "can't compete". Both are changing strategy to stay relevent in the marketplace (in fact they merged to do just that).

There is nothing in the ownership papers that guarantees you'll be competative when you buy a team. Nor should there be. If you can't compete then

1) Don't buy the damn team
2) Sell the damn team

Don't wait for uncle Selig to make it "fair".

Scottiehaswheels
06-15-2007, 02:36 AM
Socialism works baby!!!!

Look, the problem is if we're interested in a total unrestricted free market then have no salary cap, but if you want everyone to be competitive then having some sort of salary cap is the right idea so it helps teams like KC...the revenue sharing plan helps a lot too.Wrong... you want to help those teams like KC, you install a salary FLOOR... Make them spend AT THE VERY LEAST all of the revenue sharing they receive, on the 25 man roster...

MRM
06-15-2007, 02:41 AM
Wrong... you want to help those teams like KC, you install a salary FLOOR... Make them spend AT THE VERY LEAST all of the revenue sharing they receive, on the 25 man roster...

Agreed to a point, but MLB doesn't really have a revenue sharing plan. Just the so called TAX put on teams that go over a certain salary level. We aren't talking huge numbers per team here.

MRM
06-15-2007, 02:43 AM
Socialism works baby!!!!

Yep. In non-socialist countries...

Bucky F. Dent
06-15-2007, 07:26 AM
1 - re-sign Buehrle
2 - deal Dye
3 - deal Contreras
4 - rebuild the bullpen
5 - keep the current coaching staff....Marriotti be damned.:D:

This little plan of action is dependent on the assumption that Pods and Erstad come back healthy and can provide speed and defense to the lineup. If that is not the case, we need to rebuild the outfield as well. Sweeney may well be able to fill one of the corner positions. Beyond that, it's wide open.

The Immigrant
06-15-2007, 08:01 AM
Agreed to a point, but MLB doesn't really have a revenue sharing plan. Just the so called TAX put on teams that go over a certain salary level. We aren't talking huge numbers per team here.

This is completely wrong. MLB's revenue-sharing plan requires each club to pay a percentage of its local receipts into a common pool. Three-quarters of the money in the pool is divided equally among all 30 clubs. The remaining 25% is shared only by clubs with below-average local revenues, distributed so that the lowest-revenue teams receive the most - disproportionately benefitting KC and TB. This is in addition to the so-called luxury tax, which I believe only the Yankees paid last year.

In total, more than $300 million in profits were re-distributed among the MLB teams last year alone.

russ99
06-15-2007, 09:11 AM
1. Either resign Buerhle at a non-Zito rate or trade him for a top young MLB outfielder for LF/CF

2. Trade Contreras and Dye for whatever you can get for them, preferably top SS, OF or 2B prospects.

3. Bring in a older (34+) veteran inning-eater starter relatively cheap (3-5M) to help tutor the young guys who will be in the rotation (Danks, Gio/Broadway/Floyd)

4. Re-sign Pods or Erstad super-cheap as insurance if(when) the Sox OF prospects don't pan out in LF/CF.

5. Sign one expensive player to help out the offense. I don't think Ichiro's coming here, but Hunter's a possibility. Maybe there's a power-hitting corner outfielder hitting the market to replace Dye I don't know about.

6. Re-shuffle the coaching staff (Cora and Coop stay for sure) and get Raines back or hire another top career SB guy to put as 1B coach. Anyone else notice the dropoff in successful steals when Baines was put at first?

7. Sign two good quality veteran relievers, one lefty and one righty. Overpay on relief help for once.

8. Don't sign Luis Castillo just cause Ozzie likes him. He's not a prototypical leadoff guy and you already have one in Pods if he can stay healthy. Focus on either re-signing Iguchi or bringing in a inexpensive defense-first 2B man.

9. Cut our losses on Uribe, either replace him with Eckstein (if he isn't asking for the world) or an aforementioned prospect acquisition.

10. Jerry needs to make some concession to the fans to still buy tickets to a reloading (not rebuilding) team. Maybe cut prices or do 2-1 upper deck tickets, or something else to keep the park full, especially if payroll is cut substantially.

MeteorsSox4367
06-15-2007, 09:13 AM
In somewhat of an order:

1. Resign Buehrle: I'm biased because he's in my top two of favorite players on the team, but this season, he's pitched like the Buehrle we've grown to know and love. A lefty, quality starter who works fast? Three words: SIGN. THE. MAN.

2. Let the younger guys play. It's about time to find out if Fields, Sweeney, Owens and Anderson are major-league caliber ballplayers.

3. Get someone to play LF on an everyday basis. I love Mackowiak's heart and the fact that he's a fellow Polack and South Sider is awesome, but he's NOT an everyday player. Off the bench, yep. As a starter, please, please, please no.

4. Get someone who can get on base consistently at the top of the order. We all saw the effectiveness of the 1-2 punch of Pods and Iguchi in '05. Something like that would work.

5. Bullpen bridge guys to get to Bobby. You hear about these other teams that have quality guys that can work the 7th and 8th. We need some ASAP.

6. Relievers who can throw strikes. I'm sick and damn tired of watching our relievers come in and go 3-1 on every hitter, including guys who are batting a robust .220. Get ahead in the count and stay there. Please?

7. Trade Dye. What he did for the Sox in his career shall forever be revered, but he has value and if we're not going anywhere this season, let's see what Sweeney can do every day playing RF.

8. A return to health for Pablo Ozuna. I just like the guy a lot for his heart and speed. His versatility is missed.

9. Some of the clowns on the radio who know nothing about baseball to shut up about how Fields, Owens and Sweeney are failures. If they don't produce over a full season, fine. But you can't make judgments over 100 at-bats.

10. Did I mention re-signing Buehrle?

wdelaney72
06-15-2007, 09:14 AM
Everyone is going to be after A-Rod and Ichiro this offseason.

Not necessarily...
Both of these players will command A LOT of money, and I agree with the poster that said they're going to want to win. The list of playoff contending teams with deep pockets is rather short: WHITE SOX, YANKEES, METS, DODGERS, ANGELS, RED SOX. Maybe you could add Detroit to that list as well.
First let's take a look at Rodriguez. Most likely he'll be returning to SS. The only teams of this list that could use an upgrade are WHITE SOX, RED SOX. The Yankees have Jeter, Mets have Reyes, Dodgers have Furcal, Angels have Cabrera and Tigers have Guillen. Maybe the CARDINALS step up and go after him, but they're as likely to outbid teams as the White Sox.

Now let's look at Ichiro. The White Sox could obviously use Ichiro. The Red Sox have 2 high priced outfielders in JD Drew and Manny, plus Pena as a big prospect. The Tigers have Granderson, Ordonez and Infante. Maybe they'd go after him. The Angels have big money in Guerrero and Matthews and they have the prospect Willits. The Dodgers have Juan Pierre making stupid money, but tha's about it... so they could be in the running. The Mets have Beltran, Endy Chavez, Shawn Green, and Lastings Milledge... their outfield might be a littel crowded already, but you never know with them. They're more likely to focus on pitching. The Yankees have Matsui, Damon, Melky Cabrera, and an option on Abreu which seems a little iflated. I put them in the same vote as the Mets, as they need to focus on pitching, plus, there have been some indications and rumblings that George is looking to keep the payroll more "manageable". The Cardinals could also step into the mix, but like SS, they're not going to outbid any other teams.

My point of this is, there is no reason (outside of Boras being A-Rod's agent) that the Sox can't land one of these 2 players. When you break it down, the list of teams bidding for these players may not be as long as you think.

I personally would like to see Ichiro playing Center.

As far as Buehrle goes, as much as I'll hate to see it, he'll be wearing a different uniform next year. His actions (not his words) have clearly indecated he's looking for max contract value... period. If he wasn't, he'd have been extended already.

russ99
06-15-2007, 09:25 AM
The list of playoff contending teams with deep pockets is rather short: WHITE SOX, YANKEES, METS, DODGERS, ANGELS, RED SOX

You make good points, but each of the rich teams could easily deal an young outfielder for pitching help and sign Ichiro.

Also, the Sox don't exactly have deep pockets (at least not on a level as the other free-spending teams you listed) and Kenny's history is pretty much acquiring players cheaply and rewarding them if they show they're worth the money. IMO: Buehrle's worth the money.

We also might not be considered a contender next season, especially if we dump a lot of the big salaries and go younger.

russ99
06-15-2007, 09:35 AM
Do you want to see a price floor at Wal-Mart, as well? "YOU CAN'T CHARGE 79 cents FOR A TUBE OF TOOTHPASTE EVERYONE ELSE GETS $1.50 FOR. IT'S NOT FAIR"

Salary caps are the epitome of communism. Now, I understand that it's silly to equate one to the other, but that's exactly what it is. Maybe call it progressive communism since with a salary cap the players get more than the owners, but it's still price control to make things "fair". Perhaps it's a combination of communism and socialism.A sliding cap/floor system based on league-wide revenue is a great idea for baseball.

Salaries are out of control and the fans are the ones ending up paying for it either in increased prices or poor quality on the field.

Don't go communism/capitalism on us here, all the other major sports have it (even soccer) and they're doing just fine, especially the NFL with their billions in revenue.

Don't get me started on Wal-Mart.

upperdeckusc
06-15-2007, 09:55 AM
1) Trade Dye: (preferably to a NL West team for bullpen help ala Linebrink, Broxton, Billingsley, etc. Those teams are DYING for some power and could possibly overpay especially if they think they hav a chance at resigning him)
2) Trade Contreras: I'm guessing he MAY be worth one decent bullpen guy or 2 solid prospects (pitchers or middle infielders). Teams in the race of things will love to get a solid SP. I'll take either deal
3) Unless we can get a highly touted very talented middle infielder like Callaspo (ARI) or Pedroia (BOS), I say resign Iguchi. He wont break the bank and is doing a solid job at 2b now and over the past few yrs. Plus, the market isn't flooded with 2b. The only way I'd void this option is if we get castillo or eckstein to play 2b.
4) I wouldn't object to trading Thome to a team needing power as well. It'd probably have to be an AL team so he can DH. Angels? A's? He doesn't have much time left in the bigs (3 yrs maybe?), so I'd love to get something for him, and then worry about replacing that power in the offseason thru Free Agency.
5) Fields is my guy at 3b, so he should play there the rest of the way out. Crede, well, I guess we'll see what happens next yr.
6) Buehrle. Offer him (very soon) a 4 yr/14.5 million dollar deal. If he takes it, great. If not, we can happily deal him and get 2-3 players for him. There will be ALOT of interest in Buehrle around the trade deadline, which will drive his asking price way up. Those players can possibly play a huge role for us in '08, whether they are bullpen pieces, middle infielders, etc.
7) Ichiro for the OF: I know alot of people say he is old (34), but he doesn't have a background of injuries and has been one of those most consistent players in the game the past handful of yrs. I truly believe he is a player that will play at least til his 40's with no signs of slowing down offensively or defensively. With that in mind, I def would offer him a 4 yr contract, maybe with an option for a 5th. He's an exciting player and will do wonders for our P.R, but I agree with other people that this year's suckiness with the Sox might drive him away from choosing Chicago.
8) If some/most of these things go thru, we'd be looking good as far as SP, bullpen, and our infield goes (if we get a middle infielder or 2 thru trades or FA, and with Fields/Konerko on the corners). The only thing that leaves is a lack of power from the outfield and possibly the DH (assuming we get rid of Dye, maybe Thome, and we dont know about Crede). The only power hitters I've heard of being available/possibly being available is Andruw Jones and Alex Rodriguez (Borass clients). I doubt either of those are viable options (i'd consider Arod if he'd consider taking about 17mil/yr and have him retire in a Sox uni, but he'll probably want more. I dont know what Andruw is looking for, but he'd give us power, an amazing CF, and wouldn't clog up the bases at the same time.) If we dont go this route, I wouldnt mind getting players that can bat for a good avg (280-300) and hitting 20-27 hrs with 90ish rbis that aren't too old.
9) Uribe....HE GONE
10) If Buehrle is gone, give Gio a shot in the rotation.

Again, this is in my little imaginary world. But I dont think alot of these are too "out there." These things will put us back in it in '08.

pythons007
06-15-2007, 10:47 AM
1. Resign Buehrle or my 83' jersey goes to waste and we lose my favorite player on this team. Not to mention our Ace.

2. Resign Iguchi. I don't know why everyone wants this guy to go? He is only one of the top 5 2B in the league. If he didn't have to bat 2nd the past 3 years he would probably be around 20-25 homers and close to 80 RBI, with more SB. I think we should definitely sign him.

3. Trade Contreras for anything we can get.

4. Trade Dye by the trade deadline this year for a MLB ready prospect.

5. Trade Uribe. I think we could get something for him because of his glove.

6. Resign Crede to a reduced contract due to injury (kind of what we did to Frank)

7. Get rid of everyone in our bullpen including all the call ups(besides Jenks). Start fresh with anyone we can get via trading Contreras/Dye/Uribe.

8. Trade or play our young OF...Sweeney, Owens, Anderson, Terrero.

9. Acquire a big bat in the offseason to go along with Konerko, Thome, Iguchi, Crede/Fields, Pierzynski.

Lip Man 1
06-15-2007, 11:29 AM
Nellie:

To answer your question...Mark Cuban. (He seems to have done pretty well in Dallas.)

Lip

ND_Sox_Fan
06-15-2007, 11:51 AM
I was interested, so I did a little summary. Here's the concensus Top 10 so far (nothing too surprising):

1) Re-Sign Buehrle (17.5)
2) Trade Dye (17)
3) Trade Contreras (16)
4) Get Pen Help (15)
5) Let Uribe Go (14)
6) Sign Ichiro (9)
7) Start Sweeney (8.5)
8) Re-Sign Iguchi (7)
9) Acquire a Power-Hitting Outfielder (7)
10) Trade / Release Iguchi (6)
10) Trade / Release Mackowiak (6)

The only conflict on the list is with Iguchi - 7 want him back and 6 want him to walk.

Noneck
06-15-2007, 03:25 PM
Nellie:

To answer your question...Mark Cuban. (He seems to have done pretty well in Dallas.)

Lip


Hmmmmm, Not really. Letting a 2 time MVP jump ship cause of $$$ isn't really doing things well. Not the kinda guy I'd like here.

WhiteSox5187
06-15-2007, 04:03 PM
Wrong... you want to help those teams like KC, you install a salary FLOOR... Make them spend AT THE VERY LEAST all of the revenue sharing they receive, on the 25 man roster...
The owner's offered that in the last collective bargaining agreement and the MLBPA turned it down because the theory is, if you have a floor then it is only a matter of time before their is a ceiling. And the MLBPA does not want a ceiling.

Frater Perdurabo
06-15-2007, 04:04 PM
- keep the current coaching staff...

6. Re-shuffle the coaching staff (Cora and Coop stay for sure) and get Raines back or hire another top career SB guy to put as 1B coach. Anyone else notice the dropoff in successful steals when Baines was put at first?

I too favor continuity over volatility in the coaching department.

However, the Sox had more success when Baines was the bench coach.

I believe Ozzie coached better when Baines was at his side.

Cora was a clueless windmill as 3B coach. He has no qualifications to be bench coach other than that Ozzie likes him (i.e. Ozzie was a better player than him).

The lack of steals is more a function of the overall team speed, plus the injuries to all the fastest players. I agree, though, that Baines might not be the best choice as 1B coach.

A good 1B coach should not only knows how to teach guys to read pitchers, get good leads and steal bases, but also overall how to be better baserunners (first to third on a single and first to home on a double, score from second on a single, etc.). That means reading the fielders and knowing their positioning and arm strength/accuracy, knowing the score, knowing the situation (early/late, who's on deck, number of outs, etc.). In other words, the perfect 1B coach not only should have been a fundamentally sound player (even if he wasn't a star), but also should be a great teacher and communicator.

Noneck
06-15-2007, 04:17 PM
I too favor continuity over volatility in the coaching department.



A good 1B coach should not only knows how to teach guys to read pitchers, get good leads and steal bases, but also overall how to be better baserunners (first to third on a single and first to home on a double, score from second on a single, etc.). That means reading the fielders and knowing their positioning and arm strength/accuracy, knowing the score, knowing the situation (early/late, who's on deck, number of outs, etc.). In other words, the perfect 1B coach not only should have been a fundamentally sound player (even if he wasn't a star), but also should be a great teacher and communicator.



A guy like Tim Raines?

TheVulture
06-15-2007, 04:17 PM
Get rid of everyone from the opening day starting lineup except Pierzynski, Iguchi and Thome. Re-sign Buerhle. Keep the starting rotation intact, except a possible Contreras trade only if getting good value in turn. I'd have no problem if KW trots the same 5 out next year. Let Terrero, Sweeney, Anderson, Fields, Owens and whoever else fight for 2008 jobs this season. Fill out the OF by signing Ichiro (**flame alert**and Rowand if we don't have 2 good looking OFers). Get a shortstop that can hit above his weight and actually hustles. Pray that Fields is the answer at 3d. Try to put together a decent middle relief staff to support Jenks.

Tragg
06-15-2007, 04:18 PM
6. Re-shuffle the coaching staff (Cora and Coop stay for sure) and get Raines back or hire another top career SB guy to put as 1B coach. Anyone else notice the dropoff in successful steals when Baines was put at first?

Why was Raines let go?

TheVulture
06-15-2007, 04:18 PM
A guy like Tim Raines?
Yeah, I'm still scratching my head about that one.

Scottiehaswheels
06-15-2007, 04:18 PM
A good 1B coach should not only knows how to teach guys to read pitchers, get good leads and steal bases, but also overall how to be better baserunners (first to third on a single and first to home on a double, score from second on a single, etc.). That means reading the fielders and knowing their positioning and arm strength/accuracy, knowing the score, knowing the situation (early/late, who's on deck, number of outs, etc.). In other words, the perfect 1B coach not only should have been a fundamentally sound player (even if he wasn't a star), but also should be a great teacher and communicator.Rickey Henderson?

eriqjaffe
06-15-2007, 04:24 PM
A good 1B coach should not only knows how to teach guys to read pitchers, get good leads and steal bases, but also overall how to be better baserunners (first to third on a single and first to home on a double, score from second on a single, etc.). That means reading the fielders and knowing their positioning and arm strength/accuracy, knowing the score, knowing the situation (early/late, who's on deck, number of outs, etc.). In other words, the perfect 1B coach not only should have been a fundamentally sound player (even if he wasn't a star), but also should be a great teacher and communicator.I predict that Scott Podsednik may have a future career as a 1B coach.

areilly
06-15-2007, 04:57 PM
1) Trade Dye and Contreras (and possibly a position prospect) to Seattle for Ichiro mid-season. Extend him immediately.

2) Re-sign Buerhle.

3) Bring back 2-for-1 Tuesdays.

4) Get rid of Uribe at all costs.

5) Re-sign Iguchi. There aren't many better options out there at 2B.

6) Keep Pods as a 4th OF.

7) Sign Aaron Rowand as CF.

8) Sign Alex Rodriguez as SS.

9) Hope and pray Fields pans out.

10) Trade Crede for bullpen help if there's a team willing to gamble on him.

Keeping with Ozzie's fixation on alternating L/R, the lineup would be something like:

Ichiro RF
Rowand CF
Thome DH
A-Rod SS
Konerko 1B
Pierzynski C
Iguchi 2B
Sweeney/Owens LF
Fields 3B

SP: Garland, Buerhle, Javy, Danks, Gio
RP: Jenks, Thornton, etc.

How depressing. Even in dreamland, the offense takes two steps forward while the pitching takes one step back. God I hate this team.

letsgosox1592
06-15-2007, 05:12 PM
1) resign buehrle
2) trade jose contrearas or john garland and then put in either/both gio gonzalez/gavin floyd in the rotation
3) trade dye this year to the dodgers to get very good prosects (shortstop)
4) get rid of erstad and podsednik
5) find a young and upcoming 2nd basemen in free agency/trade
6) either trade thome or konerko for salary cap
7) hopefully crede comes back healthy and then move fields to left field
8) let brian anderson, ryan sweeney, jerry owens and luis terrero battle for left and right field
9) GET RID OF OZZIE GUILLEN AND GREG WALKER!!!!
10) SIGN JOE GIRARDDI
11) get proven relief pitchers

Daver
06-15-2007, 05:14 PM
Why was Raines let go?

Because he has ambitions to manage someday, the same reason the Sox hired Razor Shines over Nick Leyva as 3rd base coach.

The Immigrant
06-15-2007, 05:19 PM
Why was Raines let go?

There was an article in the Sun-Times a couple of weeks back in which Ozzie essentially stated that they fired Raines because of job performance issues.

''I had to fire one of my friends, one of my coaches [Tim Raines], because he [wasn't] doing the job. If something happens to me this year, next year, 20 years after, I will feel the same way about Kenny and Jerry. I understand his point.''

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/411461,CST-SPT-soxnt02.article

Noneck
06-15-2007, 05:25 PM
Because he has ambitions to manage someday, the same reason the Sox hired Razor Shines over Nick Leyva as 3rd base coach.

Luckily Ozzie doesn't speak English too well or Cox, Torborg and McKeon would have realized he had hidden career ambitions.

Tragg
06-15-2007, 05:28 PM
Because he has ambitions to manage someday, the same reason the Sox hired Razor Shines over Nick Leyva as 3rd base coach.
In the regular world, that's a sign of a really weak manager, who sees his best chance at keeping his job in surrounding himself with people who have no chance of outshining him, making himself look good in comparison. The best managers hire people with more talent than them.
But Ozzie has a ring, the best credential there is, so my analysis wouldnt fit him.

Frater Perdurabo
06-15-2007, 06:32 PM
In the regular world, that's a sign of a really weak manager, who sees his best chance at keeping his job in surrounding himself with people who have no chance of outshining him, making himself look good in comparison. The best managers hire people with more talent than them.
But Ozzie has a ring, the best credential there is, so my analysis wouldnt fit him.

I really hope that it doesn't turn out this way, but in 20 years we may look back at 2005 as the year in which everything went right; when the stars and planets aligned perfectly. Again, I hope I'm wrong, but Ozzie sure isn't distinguising himself with some of his coaching choices.

rowand33
06-15-2007, 06:38 PM
Sign Eckstein to bat 9th
Sign Ichiro to leadoff and play RF
Sign Castillo
Trade gooch, buehrle, and dye before the deadline for pitching and young position players.
Cut ties with Uribe and Pods, thanks for 05
Get some vets for the pen
Let some of the kids play after the 07 break to see if they're ready to take over next year (Fields at 3B if Crede isn't healthy, Sweeney/Anderson/Owens at left), if not, find somebody that is. Erstad, Rowand, Patterson, Byrnes would all be available stopgaps in the OF.

Daver
06-15-2007, 07:12 PM
In the regular world, that's a sign of a really weak manager, who sees his best chance at keeping his job in surrounding himself with people who have no chance of outshining him, making himself look good in comparison. The best managers hire people with more talent than them.
But Ozzie has a ring, the best credential there is, so my analysis wouldnt fit him.

Did the players win that because of him, or despite of him?

Ozzie has brought up the subject of firing him, Ken Williams has commented on firing him, and Ozzie has final say on his coaching staff, and chose to staff it without guys ready to manage at the MLB level.

decolores9628
06-15-2007, 09:09 PM
1. Keep Buehrle
2. Trade JD for bullpen help.
3. Keep Crede (one year of arbitration next year, how much can he get with this season in the books?)
4. Sign A-Rod
5. Trade Jose for anything (put Gio in the rotation, this year is obviously gone.)
6. Trade Pods
7. Re-sign Iguchi
8. Start Sweeney somewhere in the OF next year
9. Trade Thome

DrewSox56
06-15-2007, 09:20 PM
Re-sign Buehlre.

Get what you can at July deadline for our FA's.

Rebuild.

Fire field management.

It's going to be awhile before we see '05 again.

MRM
06-15-2007, 09:32 PM
Because he has ambitions to manage someday, the same reason the Sox hired Razor Shines over Nick Leyva as 3rd base coach.

Certainly that's not why they let him go. Joey Cora has made it know he has ambitions to manage someday too, but he's still around.

Frater Perdurabo
06-15-2007, 09:54 PM
Certainly that's not why they let him go. Joey Cora has made it know he has ambitions to manage someday too, but he's still around.

He may have the ambitions to manage, but he doesn't have the brains. He is smart enough, though, to know that to keep his job, he only must be Ozzie's lap dog.

"Mr. Ozzie, do you want me to sweep the clubhouse floor before or after I wash your car again?"

A. Cavatica
06-15-2007, 11:42 PM
Here I've tried to stay within the current budget while retaining Buehrle and perhaps Dye. That means three rookie position players and a rookie starter.

1. New manager.
2. New coaching staff, except Don Cooper.
3. Eleven pitchers, fourteen position players.
4. Trade away: Iguchi, Uribe, Crede, Podsednik, Erstad, Mackowiak; Contreras, MacDougal, Masset, Aardsma, Sisco, Day, Floyd.
5. Re-sign Dye to play left, or trade him and acquire Griffey Jr to play right.
6. Trade pitching for Rowand.
7. Play Sweeney in left or right, choose backup OFs from Terrero/Anderson/Owens.
8. Trade for Orlando Cabrera and put him between Fields and Chris Getz, with Cintron and Ozuna backups.
9. Re-sign Buehrle. Add one new starter (from Egbert, Gonzalez, Broadway, Haeger).
10. Acquire two accomplished veteran relievers to join Jenks, Thornton, Logan/Vasquez, Adam Russell/Haeger.

Lineup:
Getz 2b
Cabrera ss
Thome dh
Konerko 1b
Griffey rf
Rowand cf
Pierzynski c
Fields 3b
Sweeney lf

Frater Perdurabo
06-16-2007, 06:54 AM
Edited with likely salaries...

1. Sign Ichiro +$15M
2. Sign Castillo to play 2nd base. +$8M
3. Sign Eckstein to play short and bat 9th +$8M
4. Sign Buehrle +$5M (already makes 9.5M)
5. Sign Garland to a 3-4 year extension. +$3M (already makes $10M)
6. Rebuild the bullpen by adding some proven vets. (2? 3 guys???) +6M
7. Bring in another power bat for the OF Dye leaves; it's a wash
8. Sign a few guys from the Twins minor league / scouting department. incidental
9. Look for some risk / reward type guys for bench and minor league depth. Even
10. Exersize the option on Erstad for OF depth. Even


Lip, I like your posts and I agree that the team needs more balance and a better bullpen.

But you need to step away from the Playstation (or the bong). You propose adding $45 million to the payroll, which just isn't reasonable.

So, should JR get into drug dealing, extortion, prostitution or gambling to afford it?

Craig Grebeck
06-16-2007, 07:37 AM
Lip, why in the world would you ever give Eckstein eight million? I wouldn't give him 800K a year- the guy can barely throw it across the infield.

Frater Perdurabo
06-16-2007, 11:56 AM
Lip, why in the world would you ever give Eckstein eight million? I wouldn't give him 800K a year- the guy can barely throw it across the infield.

Lip didn't cite the $8M figure for Eckstein. I estimated that is what he might command on the free agent market. The bold type in hie "quote" were my edits.

And for the record, I'm in favor of signing Eckstein to play second base. I'm also in favor of getting Ichiro and re-signing Buehrle. But I'm realistic about money, and to be able to even think about those three, they would have to shed payroll elsewhere: Paulie (traded for Kotchman, Shields and Aybar), Uribe (traded for a bullpen pitcher or prospect), Iguchi (FA) and perhaps Crede (unless he's both healthy and willing to accept less money due to injury risk).

Craig Grebeck
06-16-2007, 12:44 PM
No way in hell would I cut ties with Paul Konerko in order to free up the finances for Eckstein.

soxinem1
06-16-2007, 02:00 PM
In the regular world, that's a sign of a really weak manager, who sees his best chance at keeping his job in surrounding himself with people who have no chance of outshining him, making himself look good in comparison. The best managers hire people with more talent than them.
But Ozzie has a ring, the best credential there is, so my analysis wouldnt fit him.

So does Bob Brenly. Big deal.:smile:

In my view, I think to prepare for 2008, they need to:

1. Trade Dye, Iguchi, Buerhle, Uribe, Vazquez, and Contreras now. The market for them will be strong, and I'll bet STL will overpay for Buerhle, and the NYM will for Vazquez.

2. Let Gio, Masset, and Floyd start the rest of the year, regardless.

3. Offer Garland an extension slightly higher than the dumb one they gave Vazquez.

4. Put BA back in CF.

5. Leave Fields at 3B.

Now, with all the cash they just shipped out, they can make a play for Luis Castillo, Ichiro, and ARod.

soxrme
06-16-2007, 04:05 PM
1. Make a huge signing Ichiro or A-Rod
2. Sign Burhle
3. Uribe goes anywhere but here.
4. Sign AJ
5. Get a minor league development guy who can spot real talent (Mike Rizzo?)
6. Stop pretending a lot of moves are not about money
7. New scouts
8. Sign Dye
9. Let Crede work out his contract year.
10. Lower the price of parking

RockJock07
06-17-2007, 02:04 AM
So does Bob Brenly. Big deal.:smile:

In my view, I think to prepare for 2008, they need to:

1. Trade Dye, Iguchi, Buerhle, Uribe, Vazquez, and Contreras now. The market for them will be strong, and I'll bet STL will overpay for Buerhle, and the NYM will for Vazquez.

2. Let Gio, Masset, and Floyd start the rest of the year, regardless.

3. Offer Garland an extension slightly higher than the dumb one they gave Vazquez.

4. Put BA back in CF.

5. Leave Fields at 3B.

Now, with all the cash they just shipped out, they can make a play for Luis Castillo, Ichiro, and ARod.

Well done except for Buehrle. Reading most of the posts in this thread I would have to say that we aren't playing a video game, these moves need to be relalistic. Ichiro is interesting, but they are going to have to overpay for him, but he's worth it!

I think Gio should be up here tomorrow. Contreras has been trash almost a year now. I'd rather have Sweeney in CF too, but I'm willing to give Anderson another chance.

I'm not sure why people don't like Erstad. He's been the only real player the Sox have had this season, he's hit and runs the bases better then any sox player has in awhile, plays a gold-glove OF. I think he should bat 2nd but this guy is a star, I think the Sox should keep him until he retires.

So my list is this.
1. Trade Dye, Contreras, and maybe Vazquez
2. Keep Erstad until he retires
3. Bring up Gio, Floyd, and BA/Sweeney
4. PLEASE TRADE URIBE!! Andy Gon. as SS rest of 07
5. make a run at Ichiro
6. Bullpen, Sisco, Mac= gone, I'd keep Logan, Jenks, Thornton, Aardsma, and add a couple of guys
7. agreed, leave Fields at third
8. start grooming a legit catcher
9. Get rid of Rob, or use him in a bench role only
10. Yeah, Parking is rough! Plus you can't sit and drink a damn beer after the game while you wait for traffic to clear out!

MRM
06-17-2007, 04:11 AM
I'll bet STL will overpay for Buerhle, and the NYM will for Vazquez.

Without picking apart your ENTIRE post, what on earth makes you think the above claims to be true?

soxinem1
06-17-2007, 05:34 PM
Without picking apart your ENTIRE post, what on earth makes you think the above claims to be true?

Well, STL is contending by default, and their starting pitching currently has THREE converted relievers and another guy who hasn't had a 30 start season (Wells) in awhile.

NYM would take Vazquez because he would be under contract for several years and would win a few games with them even if it is just from getting more run support. He would not be a rental, they would have him for at least three and a half seasons.

Sounds believeable, and doable, to me.....

Soxfest
06-17-2007, 10:33 PM
1.Fire KW
2.Fire OG
3.Trade Dye and Buerhle and Crede
4.Sign Ichiro
5.Make a stong bid for A-Rod

Scottiehaswheels
06-17-2007, 10:40 PM
1.Fire KW
Entertain me... What should KW have done this offseason that he didn't? Spend 40 mil on the bullpen like Baltimore did? Last I checked their bullpen is as bad as ours. Sign a different leadoff hitter/CF? Who else was available that wasn't a 'roider?

http://baltimore.orioles.mlb.com/news/gameday_recap.jsp?ymd=20070617&content_id=2032191&vkey=recap&fext=.jsp&c_id=bal Sound familiar?

RCWHITESOX
06-18-2007, 03:11 PM
Here's my fantasy for next year. Keep AJ at C PK at 1B Iguchi at 2B G Atkins at 3B M Young at SS R Freel LF A Rowand Cf Carlos Quintan LF J Fields at DH Starters J Garland Ervin Santana J Vasquez J Danks Relief S Sheilds M Thornton B Logan A Otsuka Closer B Jenks I feel the Sox could trade Thome to the Angels Package Dye to Texas Package Crede and BA to Colorado and Buehrle to Arizona. 5th starter M Owings

sox1970
06-18-2007, 03:13 PM
Here's my fantasy for next year. Keep AJ at C PK at 1B Iguchi at 2B G Atkins at 3B M Young at SS R Freel LF A Rowand Cf Carlos Quintan LF J Fields at DH Starters J Garland Ervin Santana J Vasquez J Danks Relief S Sheilds M Thornton B Logan A Otsuka Closer B Jenks I feel the Sox could trade Thome to the Angels Package Dye to Texas Package Crede and BA to Colorado and Buehrle to Arizona. 5th starter M Owings

Fantasy is a good way to describe this.