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View Full Version : *Official* 6-11 So much for that Winning streak Postgame Thread


CubsfansareDRUNK
06-11-2007, 09:39 PM
Shutout..ugh...

rdwj
06-11-2007, 09:40 PM
Well, that was a whole bunch of suck

CLR01
06-11-2007, 09:40 PM
Good to see that yesterday didn't affect the boys. Welcome back.

ND_Sox_Fan
06-11-2007, 09:41 PM
Wow - it's bad when your "player of the game" goes 1-4 with a first-inning single.

soltrain21
06-11-2007, 09:41 PM
Six Fingers Magoo was pretty pumped up at the end.

mccoydp
06-11-2007, 09:41 PM
That was crap-tastic.

Yuck.

chisoxmike
06-11-2007, 09:41 PM
God we ****ing suck. We ****ing suck to no end.

Who thinks we're going to get on a roll?? I DO! I DO!

"But Mike we won yesterday!!!!!!!!!!" Blah blah blah...

HotelWhiteSox
06-11-2007, 09:41 PM
Embarrassing. At least we could help lower Adam Eaton's 6 ERA (against fricken NL lineups)

:anon:

whitem0nkey
06-11-2007, 09:42 PM
man i so wanted for thome to get a shot at tying this game.

JB98
06-11-2007, 09:42 PM
Look on the bright side, Rowand went 0-for-4. There won't be any threads longing for Aaron's return to the South Side tonight. :D:

chisoxmike
06-11-2007, 09:42 PM
Highlight of the game...

Keeping tabs on MrRoboto83 and Skottiehaswheels behind the Sox dugout.:cool:

chisoxmike
06-11-2007, 09:43 PM
Look on the bright side, Rowand went 0-for-4. There won't be any threads longing for Aaron's return to the South Side tonight. :D:


BUT DID YOU SEE HIM IN CENTER FIELD!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HOLY ****ING ****! HE'S A HALL OF FAMER!!!!!!!!!

cleanwsox
06-11-2007, 09:43 PM
Bullpen.. 2 innings... 0 runs!

:supernana:


We still suck though.

Kwrubac
06-11-2007, 09:43 PM
what is there really to say anymore about this team...simply pathetic....

cleanwsox
06-11-2007, 09:45 PM
Think we'll have a better shot against Cole Hamels tomorrow?

:o:

chisoxmike
06-11-2007, 09:46 PM
Think we'll have a better shot against Cole Hamels tomorrow?

:o:
That's a loss.

Kwrubac
06-11-2007, 09:47 PM
Think we'll have a better shot against Cole Hamels tomorrow?

:o:


:kneeslap:

he might strike out 20....

santo=dorf
06-11-2007, 09:47 PM
Six Fingers Magoo was pretty pumped up at the end.
I remember him pulling that crap when he was on the Cubs.
:hawk
"SCREW HIM!"


Anybody who watched this game should receive 3 hours of community service because this was absolutely painful to watch.

Chicken Dinner
06-11-2007, 09:47 PM
Wake me when we score a run.

ND_Sox_Fan
06-11-2007, 09:48 PM
Think we'll have a better shot against Cole Hamels tomorrow?

:o:

We'll be working on our sixth shutout tomorrow.

Chicken Dinner
06-11-2007, 09:50 PM
I wonder what the record is for having the most players batting under .200?

Tragg
06-11-2007, 09:51 PM
Watching most of these hitters, I don't know why the opposition ever throws them a strike. In the dirt, over the head, if the bat can reach it, they'll give it a swing. With that 2-0 count, and Thome on deck, Torrero should have worked his rear off for a walk. Instead, once the get me over pitch gets called for a strike, it's back to hacking at everything.

Should Rob M really be getting the most at bats on this team? Why not Iguchi leading off, like he did Sunday? Is Cintron really our top pinch hitter?

VAsquez needs to bear down and dominate.

roadrunner
06-11-2007, 09:51 PM
Too bad he didn't hit for wackowiak with thome in the fifth when it was 2-0, two outs, runners on first and second. With Eaton on the mound, he would have been up there against a righty and the manager couldn't take him out because it was only the fifth. (As opposed to later when he could bring in a lefty against him)

I'm not blaming the game on Ozzie - just thinking out loud about the best way to implement thome in NL parks. Maybe it's better to use him early in the game against a right handed starter so he gets the favorable R/L matchup.

I would like them to call up Sweeney and Anderson and just start playing them as a platoon in center with a Wackowiak/Terrero platoon in left. And then pinch hit late in the game when the matchup is no longer favorable. I would also like them to release Cintron.

JB98
06-11-2007, 09:53 PM
Too bad he didn't hit for wackowiak with thome in the fifth when it was 2-0, two outs, runners on first and second. With Eaton on the mound, he would have been up there against a righty and the manager couldn't take him out because it was only the fifth. (As opposed to later when he could bring in a lefty against him)

I'm not blaming the game on Ozzie - just thinking out loud about the best way to implement thome in NL parks. Maybe it's better to use him early in the game against a right handed starter so he gets the favorable R/L matchup.

I would like them to call up Sweeney and Anderson and just start playing them as a platoon in center with a Wackowiak/Terrero platoon in left. And then pinch hit late in the game when the matchup is no longer favorable. I would also like them to release Cintron.

I would like them to call up Pods and put him in LF everyday.

CLR01
06-11-2007, 09:55 PM
I would like them to call up Sweeney and Anderson

You want them to call up another injured centerfielder?

pagansoxfan
06-11-2007, 09:56 PM
since we suck, i'm thinking of starting a petition to get all live games prempted for "classic" sox games. this way, we can watch the sox win every night. who's with me?

roadrunner
06-11-2007, 09:57 PM
I would like them to call up Pods and put him in LF everyday.

You're right - If he's ready then go with a Sweeney/Terrero platoon in center. I don't see why Wackowiak should get at bats over Sweeney at this point.

DickAllen72
06-11-2007, 09:58 PM
BUT DID YOU SEE HIM IN CENTER FIELD!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HOLY ****ING ****! HE'S A HALL OF FAMER!!!!!!!!!


He's still better than any outfielder the Sox currently have either on their roster or on the DL.

Tragg
06-11-2007, 09:59 PM
I would like them to call up Pods and put him in LF everyday.

For the rest of this year and see if we can get back to .500 by September. Exciting. But, really, what else is there?

I hope Dye starts hitting, if for no other reason than to trade him.

DickAllen72
06-11-2007, 10:00 PM
I hope Dye starts hitting, if for no other reason than to trade him.
Yes.

JB98
06-11-2007, 10:01 PM
You're right - If he's ready then go with a Sweeney/Terrero platoon in center. I don't see why Wackowiak should get at bats over Sweeney at this point.

From my perspective, Terrero is the CF until Erstad comes back. They could flip Owens to Charlotte for Sweeney, since Owens isn't healthy anyway. If Ryan is recalled, he needs to play.

I'd probably just stick with Terrero because it won't be long until Erstad is back anyway. He's eligible to come off the DL Saturday. No reason to jerk Sweeney around.

Kwrubac
06-11-2007, 10:03 PM
per WSCR...Crede will have back surgery tomorrow :(:

JB98
06-11-2007, 10:03 PM
For the rest of this year and see if we can get back to .500 by September. Exciting. But, really, what else is there?

I hope Dye starts hitting, if for no other reason than to trade him.

Well, if we still suck like this a month from now or two months from now, the strategy changes. Right now, we badly need a top-of-the-order hitter. Mackowiak isn't getting it done. I don't see any better option than Pods, even if he hasn't played in the bigs for two months. What can it hurt? Can Scott do worse than the 0-fers that Rob is putting up?

Viva Medias B's
06-11-2007, 10:04 PM
According to the doofus hosting BBTN, our manager is José Guillen.

pasquasroachclip
06-11-2007, 10:06 PM
Look on the bright side, Rowand went 0-for-4. There won't be any threads longing for Aaron's return to the South Side tonight. :D:

Why not? With that performance, he'd fit in quite nicely with the rest of 'em

A. Cavatica
06-11-2007, 10:07 PM
Look on the bright side, Rowand went 0-for-4. There won't be any threads longing for Aaron's return to the South Side tonight. :D:

I like 0-4 better when Aaron does it.

Scottiehaswheels
06-11-2007, 10:08 PM
Highlight of the game...

Keeping tabs on MrRoboto83 and Skottiehaswheels behind the Sox dugout.:cool:hey thanks.. we were having a good time predicting how badly we could suck... I think I called a couple of our GIDP's...

DickAllen72
06-11-2007, 10:08 PM
From my perspective, Terrero is the CF until Erstad comes back. They could flip Owens to Charlotte for Sweeney, since Owens isn't healthy anyway. If Ryan is recalled, he needs to play.

I'd probably just stick with Terrero because it won't be long until Erstad is back anyway. He's eligible to come off the DL Saturday. No reason to jerk Sweeney around.
Terrero should keep playing everyday until it can difinitively be proven whether he is finally putting it together and is a late bloomer or if he's still just another five-tool bust.

When Erstad comes back I wouldn't mind Terrero playing RF everyday if they can get something of value in return for Dye. If he turns out to be a bust, then bring up Sweeney and let him finish out the year in RF.

Lukin13
06-11-2007, 10:09 PM
honestly.....

how much mula is JD costing himself?????

thank goodness he ALREADY shot an episode of Cribs!

Jurr
06-11-2007, 10:11 PM
Boy, is this wild. I'm just very interested in seeing how this team is going to shape up.

Tragg
06-11-2007, 10:12 PM
Well, if we still suck like this a month from now or two months from now, the strategy changes. Right now, we badly need a top-of-the-order hitter. Mackowiak isn't getting it done. I don't see any better option than Pods, even if he hasn't played in the bigs for two months. What can it hurt? Can Scott do worse than the 0-fers that Rob is putting up?

You're right. I agree with you. I think Pods will help a lot. He should lead off for this team, Erstad or no Erstad.
Just looking at everyone else, swinging at dirt balls; gets frustrating. Even Konerko swings at ball 4 in the 9th (and a bad swing it was - I guess he was trying to foul it off because it was sort of close).

And someone should sit down with Luis and go over that last at bat pitch by pitch. Because he NEEDED to get on base -we didn't need a homer or a double. Just get your butt on base for Thome. But after the 2 fake bunts, he hacked away at Alfonseca's garbage.

Scottiehaswheels
06-11-2007, 10:13 PM
Best part of the game was the Philly Fanatic gettin it on with Razor Shines... Oh and watching Garland taunt the little kids... Awesome!

JB98
06-11-2007, 10:14 PM
You're right. I agree with you. I think Pods will help a lot. He should lead off for this team, Erstad or no Erstad.

Yes. I'm an advocate for Darin Erstad to a point. He is the everyday CF, when healthy. But he is not a top-of-the-lineup hitter in my opinion. He did OK as a fill-in as a leadoff hitter, but I don't think that's the ideal spot for him. Bat him eighth and break up the malaise that is the bottom of our order.

delben91
06-11-2007, 10:14 PM
per WSCR...Crede will have back surgery tomorrow :(:

I feel bad for Joe. He finally started coming into his own with the Sox in September of 2005. And his glove is second to none.

Now is Josh Fields' chance, I hope he makes the most of it. (And I hope Joe has even a sliver of trade value left).

Tragg
06-11-2007, 10:19 PM
I feel bad for Joe. He finally started coming into his own with the Sox in September of 2005. And his glove is second to none.

Now is Josh Fields' chance, I hope he makes the most of it. (And I hope Joe has even a sliver of trade value left).

So is that it? Is he a Sox next year or not? Or is it up to us?

SOXandILLINI
06-11-2007, 10:20 PM
According to the doofus hosting BBTN, our manager is José Guillen.

i wish it was.

delben91
06-11-2007, 10:22 PM
So is that it? Is he a Sox next year or not? Or is it up to us?


He's in an arbitration year this year, so the Sox control him through the end of 2008. I'd imagine it all depends on how Josh Fields performs. If Josh shows potential to be the full time starter in 2008, maybe the Sox try and deal Crede. If not, maybe the Sox give Crede 2008 to either up his value, or perhaps allow the Sox to sign him for a lower price due to his injury history.

A whole lot of "ifs" and "maybes." But it seems to me Josh Fields should have the rest of the season to prove he can do the job or not.

soxwon
06-11-2007, 10:23 PM
This team needs an EXORCISM !!!!!

Kwrubac
06-11-2007, 10:25 PM
So is that it? Is he a Sox next year or not? Or is it up to us?


Crede and Dye for AROD? :D:

BeviBall!
06-11-2007, 10:28 PM
I'm hoping for 75 wins at this point.

Tragg
06-11-2007, 10:30 PM
Bat him eighth and break up the malaise that is the bottom of our order.

Deal.

I wonder where he will go.

Playing Torrerro everyday is fine with me. Let's see what he's got.

Kwrubac
06-11-2007, 10:37 PM
You know it's pretty bad when the team loses and the thread is about as long as when they win...oh well...maybe they will surprise us tomorrow? :praying:

JB98
06-11-2007, 10:39 PM
You know it's pretty bad when the team loses and the thread is about as long as when they win...oh well...maybe they will surprise us tomorrow? :praying:

People have moved from anger to resignation now.

cws05champ
06-11-2007, 10:42 PM
p-a-t-h-e-t-i-c !!!

JB98
06-11-2007, 10:43 PM
Deal.

I wonder where he will go.

Playing Torrerro everyday is fine with me. Let's see what he's got.

Pods did not play for Charlotte tonight. Does that mean it's time?

Brian26
06-11-2007, 10:45 PM
I feel bad for Joe.

You feel bad for Joe? :?:

He had a chance to get the back surgery taken care of this winter and come back strong for the Spring. Instead, he elected not to do surgery out of his own greed (and probably lots of advice from his agent), and now he's not only screwed over the Sox, but he's screwed himself.

Kwrubac
06-11-2007, 10:46 PM
Maybe Southpaw should play...I mean at least in that suit he could lean into pitches and get on base? :cool:

ilsox7
06-11-2007, 10:52 PM
You feel bad for Joe? :?:

He had a chance to get the back surgery taken care of this winter and come back strong for the Spring. Instead, he elected not to do surgery out of his own greed (and probably lots of advice from his agent), and now he's not only screwed over the Sox, but he's screwed himself.

I disagree. Back surgery is the last, worst, least attractive option. If there was any hope he could get better without surgery, I do not blame him one bit for choosing to not be cut.

salty99
06-11-2007, 10:52 PM
If this is it for Joe in a White Sox uniform, thanks for the memories.

Kwrubac
06-11-2007, 10:53 PM
I disagree. Back surgery is the last, worst, least attractive option. If there was any hope he could get better without surgery, I do not blame him one bit for choosing to not be cut.

It's also not 100 percent that surgery would have corrected the problem...its really a crap shoot...

salty99
06-11-2007, 10:53 PM
I disagree. Back surgery is the last, worst, least attractive option. If there was any hope he could get better without surgery, I do not blame him one bit for choosing to not be cut.


Agree 100% with you.

Grzegorz
06-11-2007, 10:53 PM
He had a chance to get the back surgery taken care of this winter and come back strong for the Spring.

This is pure speculation; with back surgery there is no guarantee.

Instead, he elected not to do surgery out of his own greed (and probably lots of advice from his agent), and now he's not only screwed over the Sox, but he's screwed himself.

I am not sure what motivated Crede to avoid surgery. Actually the only one who knows the reason is Joe. To state that Joe Crede put off surgery because he is greedy is also an example of pure speculation.

Brian26
06-11-2007, 10:54 PM
If this is it for Joe in a White Sox uniform, thanks for the memories.

He's under contract through 2008, but arbitration eligible this winter. Any chance the Sox don't offer him arbitration?

salty99
06-11-2007, 10:56 PM
He's under contract through 2008, but arbitration eligible this winter. Any chance the Sox don't offer him arbitration?


Yeah I know he is, but who knows what the future holds for him. If this surgery doesn't work he might as well retire and enjoy life with his family.

Brian26
06-11-2007, 10:56 PM
This is pure speculation; with back surgery there is no guarantee.

Right. I'm not talking about the outcome of the surgery. I'm talking about the news this winter that he was contemplating surgery and Boras talked him out of it, instead trying to focus on the core-conditioning that Hermanson went through last year.

sox1970
06-11-2007, 10:57 PM
He's under contract through 2008, but arbitration eligible this winter. Any chance the Sox don't offer him arbitration?

I had the same thought. Maybe if his back doesn't heal, and Fields has an outstanding second half, maybe they just cut ties with Crede. Could happen.

ilsox7
06-11-2007, 10:57 PM
Yeah I know he is, but who knows what the future holds for him. If this surgery doesn't work he might as well retire and enjoy life with his family.

As someone who has a bad back (and I think Joe and I have similar problems, though not sure), I would seriously consider not even having the surgery if I were him and retiring. That's how anti-cutting around the spine I am.

kittle42
06-11-2007, 10:58 PM
Third worst record in the AL.

Impressive.

itsnotrequired
06-11-2007, 10:58 PM
As someone who has a bad back (and I think Joe and I have similar problems, though not sure), I would seriously consider not even having the surgery if I were him and retiring. That's how anti-cutting around the spine I am.

I thought lawyers didn't even have spines?

:redneck

ilsox7
06-11-2007, 10:59 PM
I thought lawyers didn't even have spines?

:redneck

I'm not a lawyer yet, but this is why I went to law school. I figure once I am actually a lawyer, my spine will go away and with that, all of the horrid pain.

Chips
06-11-2007, 11:00 PM
I thought lawyers didn't even have spines?

:redneck

He's not a lawyer (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=4&id=3395) yet, I think.

EDIT: I was correct. What else it new?

itsnotrequired
06-11-2007, 11:00 PM
I'm not a lawyer yet, but this is why I went to law school. I figure once I am actually a lawyer, my spine will go away and with that, all of the horrid pain.

See, this is thinking outside the box. Kudos!

:D:

Grzegorz
06-11-2007, 11:02 PM
Has Crede's workout regimen during the off season been revealed? How can we be sure that Joe didn't workout hard in the off season?

He rolled the dice and he lost. The decision to have back surgery not only impacts his immediate career but his entire life. It's a tough decision that I hope I never have to make.

Brian26
06-11-2007, 11:03 PM
Has Crede's workout regimen during the off season been revealed? How can we be sure that Joe didn't workout hard in the off season?

I don't think anyone is implying that he didn't work hard this winter. All indications are that he busted his behind.

TheOldRoman
06-11-2007, 11:03 PM
Another horrible pitcher, another pathetic performance. I didn't see the game, but I am sure Hawk and DJ talked extensively about how good Eaton was, how he was having the game of his life, and how "this is the best pitcher with an era of 6 you will EVER see."

It is beyond reason at this point. How the hell is Walker still employed? One couldn't possibly perform worse at his job. He couldn't possibly get worse results than he has. I have no idea why Kenny hasn't fired him. His quality teachings have killed this season. A few more weeks of Walkerball, and we are playing for next year. At that point, it is even more important that Walker is fired. The last thing we need is him messing with the swings of Fields and Sweeney and ruining their careers.

soxwon
06-11-2007, 11:06 PM
Third worst record in the AL.

Impressive.

Lets be the worst!!!
Higher draft picks, Its True!!!

sox1970
06-11-2007, 11:08 PM
Lets be the worst!!!
Higher draft picks, Its True!!!

It will be nice to have a Top 10 pick next year--and we certainly will.

DickAllen72
06-11-2007, 11:09 PM
It is beyond reason at this point. How the hell is Walker still employed? One couldn't possibly perform worse at his job. He couldn't possibly get worse results than he has. I have no idea why Kenny hasn't fired him. His quality teachings have killed this season. A few more weeks of Walkerball, and we are playing for next year. At that point, it is even more important that Walker is fired. The last thing we need is him messing with the swings of Fields and Sweeney and ruining their careers.
Remember how well Juan Uribe looked at the plate near the end of 2005? Wasn't he working with Hriniak at the time? Didn't he develop a "leg kick" timing device that was helping him stay on the ball? Then in 2006, for some reason he changed his stance again and has performed as bad or worse than he ever has at the plate.

I could be wrong, but it would appear that once Hriniak's influence wore off and Walker took over again, Uribe went downhill. Can someone either confirm all this or correct me if I'm mistaken?

MRM
06-11-2007, 11:10 PM
You feel bad for Joe? :?:

He had a chance to get the back surgery taken care of this winter and come back strong for the Spring. Instead, he elected not to do surgery out of his own greed (and probably lots of advice from his agent), and now he's not only screwed over the Sox, but he's screwed himself.

Absolutely WRONG. Back surgery is the absolute LAST thing he should have done if there were ANY other options. Greed had nothing to do with. We are talking about a surgery that could:

1) accomplish nothing at all
2) end his career
3) disable him for life
4) provide short term relief

I'm in a similar situation with my back and the options are NOT simple. The surgery is NOT a cure in the way fixing a hernia is and it's extremely dangerous. In order to have the surgery done you have to sign a waiver acknowledging it can possibly disable you and absolving the surgeon of responsibility if it does. You also have to go in with the understanding that rehab will be long and grueling and that the surgery will likely have to be repeated down the road, maybe numerous times.

You really shouldn't draw conclusions from things you know absolutely nothing about. To paint Joe as "greedy" and that he "screwed the White Sox" over a very difficult decision is absurd.

Brian26
06-11-2007, 11:13 PM
You really shouldn't draw conclusions from things you know absolutely nothing about. To paint Joe as "greedy" and that he "screwed the White Sox" over a very difficult decision is absurd.

What is absurd is that you're denying that Crede's decision with the back wasn't related to his financial well-being. Secondly, if he were to get the surgery, it would be under the knife of one of the best doctors in world. Don't act like back surgery is being done in third-world huts. Modern medicine on the level of surgeons like Dr. James Andrews in GA, etc is unbelievable.

santo=dorf
06-11-2007, 11:18 PM
It will be nice to have a Top 10 pick next year--and we certainly will.
Why? They tend to cost more money and are more difficult to sign. The Sox don't like that.

Scouting >>>>>>>> position when it comes to the baseball draft. It's not like the NBA or NFL.

102605
06-11-2007, 11:19 PM
I'm starting to enjoy this.

MRM
06-11-2007, 11:20 PM
How the hell is Walker still employed? One couldn't possibly perform worse at his job. He couldn't possibly get worse results than he has. I have no idea why Kenny hasn't fired him.

Because you also have no idea how "poorly" he actually IS performing his job.

I don't recall you posting last year how Walker deserved a huge bonus when the Sox were 3rd in runs scored.

If he doesn't get credit for hitting last year he certainly can't get blamed for hitting this year. Though he did have one of the sweetest swings I've seen, maybe he should get out there and take a few hacks :D:

I'll leave it to Ozzie and Kenny to determine if the hitting woes are a result of Walkers coaching. I'm pretty sure they know a helluva lot more than we do about what he's doing every day.

santo=dorf
06-11-2007, 11:20 PM
He's under contract through 2008, but arbitration eligible this winter. Any chance the Sox don't offer him arbitration?
He's making around $5 million which means the Sox have to gamble $4 million just to see if he's healthy and can actually perform in a contract year, unlike Jermaine Dye, to get any value for him. The only way I can see them bringing him back is if Fields completely tanks and/or Crede has a quick recovery.

TheOldRoman
06-11-2007, 11:25 PM
Remember how well Juan Uribe looked at the plate near the end of 2005? Wasn't he working with Hriniak at the time? Didn't he develop a "leg kick" timing device that was helping him stay on the ball? Then in 2006, for some reason he changed his stance again and has performed as bad or worse than he ever has at the plate.

I could be wrong, but it would appear that once Hriniak's influence wore off and Walker took over again, Uribe went downhill. Can someone either confirm all this or correct me if I'm mistaken?
Yep, correct on all accounts.

champagne030
06-11-2007, 11:28 PM
1) accomplish nothing at all

Maybe.


2) end his career

3) disable him for life


Extremely unlikely. This isn't some major cut job. It's my understanding that this is a minimally invasive surgery. You walk in and walk out the same day. Playing again in two months. I'm not a doctor, but this surgery sounds as likely to end his career as arthroscopic knee surgery.


4) provide short term relief

Maybe

TheOldRoman
06-11-2007, 11:28 PM
Because you also have no idea how "poorly" he actually IS performing his job.

I don't recall you posting last year how Walker deserved a huge bonus when the Sox were 3rd in runs scored.

If he doesn't get credit for hitting last year he certainly can't get blamed for hitting this year. Though he did have one of the sweetest swings I've seen, maybe he should get out there and take a few hacks :D:

I'll leave it to Ozzie and Kenny to determine if the hitting woes are a result of Walkers coaching. I'm pretty sure they know a helluva lot more than we do about what he's doing every day.
No, last year I was calling for his head because the offense was terrible in the second half. Don't look at the numbers, they lie. Last year the offense started out on fire, but was shameful come August. That averaged out to be 3rd. That offense was much like 2000-2004. 10 runs one night, 3 runs the next, 2 the day after that. And as horrible as the offense has been this season, it isn't much worse than it was the past 2 months of 06.

southsideirish71
06-11-2007, 11:28 PM
Remember how well Juan Uribe looked at the plate near the end of 2005? Wasn't he working with Hriniak at the time? Didn't he develop a "leg kick" timing device that was helping him stay on the ball? Then in 2006, for some reason he changed his stance again and has performed as bad or worse than he ever has at the plate.

I could be wrong, but it would appear that once Hriniak's influence wore off and Walker took over again, Uribe went downhill. Can someone either confirm all this or correct me if I'm mistaken?

Hrniak and Thomas helped Uribe with a leg kick that helped him keep his upper body quiet, and help him keep closed and drive towards the plate. It was very affective in the last month of 05. Then Walker stepped in.

Greg changed his timing mechanism in ST of the next year. He decided that all that Uribe needed was to keep quiet, so he went to a spread stance like Pablo. Uribe went back to being a free swinging hacker like before. This year he decided to to go project 2007 Uribe, where he spent a lot of time working with Juan.

DickAllen72
06-11-2007, 11:33 PM
No, last year I was calling for his head because the offense was terrible in the second half. Don't look at the numbers, they lie. Last year the offense started out on fire, but was shameful come August. That averaged out to be 3rd. That offense was much like 2000-2004. 10 runs one night, 3 runs the next, 2 the day after that. And as horrible as the offense has been this season, it isn't much worse than it was the past 2 months of 06.

Thank you!

MRM
06-11-2007, 11:33 PM
What is absurd is that you're denying that Crede's decision with the back wasn't related to his financial well-being. Secondly, if he were to get the surgery, it would be under the knife of one of the best doctors in world. Don't act like back surgery is being done in third-world huts. Modern medicine on the level of surgeons like Dr. James Andrews in GA, etc is unbelievable.

You have first hand knowledge that Joe didn't have the surgery because of financial considerations? ROFL, sure ya do. It's beyond cynical to accuse a man making a life changing MEDICAL decision based on his contract status.

We aren't talking about modern medicine. We are talking about a very complicated and unpredictable surgery you quite obviously know absolutely nothing about. I'm not "acting" like anything. I've consulted with over a dozen doctors and surgeons concerning a very similar surgery for MYSELF. I've been through rehab and intense adjustments multiple times. I know what it's like to play 18 holes of golf one day and not be capable of getting out of bed the next. I know EXACTLY the reasons why people would put off such a surgery if at all possible, and money is definately not one of them.

I'll go further and guarantee Joe isn't having the surgery NOW for monetary reasons either. I'm absolutely certain he is in so much pain so often that he's taking the last, final option he has to possibly lead a normal life.

You do realize this surgery is just as likely to end his baseball career as it is to permanately fix his back problems, right? More likely, actually, as it won't "fix" his back, it will simply alleviate some/alot of the pain...if it works at all.

DickAllen72
06-11-2007, 11:35 PM
Hrniak and Thomas helped Uribe with a leg kick that helped him keep his upper body quiet, and help him keep closed and drive towards the plate. It was very affective in the last month of 05. Then Walker stepped in.

Greg changed his timing mechanism in ST of the next year. He decided that all that Uribe needed was to keep quiet, so he went to a spread stance like Pablo. Uribe went back to being a free swinging hacker like before. This year he decided to to go project 2007 Uribe, where he spent a lot of time working with Juan.
Sweeney looked pretty decent at the plate when he first came up, then it was reported that Walker was working with him to give him a little more power. Suddenly, Sweeney tanked. Coincidence?

MRM
06-11-2007, 11:35 PM
No, last year I was calling for his head because the offense was terrible in the second half.

And the second half last year you had major injury problems with Pods and Crede.

JB98
06-11-2007, 11:37 PM
You have first hand knowledge that Joe didn't have the surgery because of financial considerations? ROFL, sure ya do. It's beyond cynical to accuse a man making a life changing MEDICAL decision based on his contract status.

We aren't talking about modern medicine. We are talking about a very complicated and unpredictable surgery you quite obviously know absolutely nothing about. I'm not "acting" like anything. I've consulted with over a dozen doctors and surgeons concerning a very similar surgery for MYSELF. I've been through rehab and intense adjustments multiple times. I know what it's like to play 18 holes of golf one day and not be capable of getting out of bed the next. I know EXACTLY the reasons why people would put off such a surgery if at all possible, and money is definately not one of them.

I'll go further and guarantee Joe isn't having the surgery NOW for monetary reasons either. I'm absolutely certain he is in so much pain so often that he's taking the last, final option he has to possibly lead a normal life.

You do realize this surgery is just as likely to end his baseball career as it is to permanately fix his back problems, right? More likely, actually, as it won't "fix" his back, it will simply alleviate some/alot of the pain...if it works at all.

Well, you never know, but I'd be surprised if Crede's career is over. This is an outpatient procedure. Afterwards, Joe has to rest for a full month. Then he begins a rehab process. If everything goes to plan, he could begin baseball-related activities in two months.

lakeviewsoxfan
06-11-2007, 11:39 PM
If Walker survives the road trip with offense looking as anemic as it has and is still employed you have top start questioning the Sox Brass.

MRM
06-11-2007, 11:43 PM
Extremely unlikely. This isn't some major cut job. It's my understanding that this is a minimally invasive surgery. You walk in and walk out the same day. Playing again in two months. I'm not a doctor, but this surgery sounds as likely to end his career as arthroscopic knee surgery.

If he chose to have the fluid drain (which technically is surgery but not what I'm talking about) then yes, it's little different than outpatient knee surgery with a month or two recovery time. He has two herniated discs in his back and nerve damage. If they do surgery to repair the discs and, especially, the nerves we are talking about very invasive surgery, a long recovery time (he'd miss at least the rest of this season for sure) and with little certainty as to the outcome.

MrRoboto83
06-11-2007, 11:45 PM
Another awesome offensive effort by the Sox. Philly fans were giving me a little grief about the Sox, and I agree with them. Nothing really positive to say anymore, but I keep watching, cause I have nothing better to do with my time.

JB98
06-11-2007, 11:45 PM
If he chose to have the fluid drain (which technically is surgery but not what I'm talking about) then yes, it's little different than outpatient knee surgery with a month or two recovery time. He has two herniated discs in his back and nerve damage. If they do surgery to repair the discs and, especially, the nerves we are talking about very invasive surgery, a long recovery time (he'd miss at least the rest of this season for sure) and with little certainty as to the outcome.

That's not what they're doing, according to the information I have. It's an outpatient procedure to drain fluid off the nerve.

MRM
06-11-2007, 11:45 PM
Well, you never know, but I'd be surprised if Crede's career is over. This is an outpatient procedure. Afterwards, Joe has to rest for a full month. Then he begins a rehab process. If everything goes to plan, he could begin baseball-related activities in two months.

If they are calling it an outpatient procedure then he's not having surgery to repair those discs/nerves. He's having a simple fluid drain to relieve pressure around them.

MRM
06-11-2007, 11:46 PM
That's not what they're doing, according to the information I have. It's an outpatient procedure to drain fluid off the nerve.

LOL. I was speculating that at the same time you were typing it. If that's the case it's a simple procedure but definately not the same surgery they were contemplating in the offseason.

JB98
06-11-2007, 11:51 PM
LOL. I was speculating that at the same time you were typing it. If that's the case it's a simple procedure but definately not the same surgery they were contemplating in the offseason.

The Sox have not yet made an official announcement as to the type of surgery that will take place. But Crede stated on the record just days ago that he was strongly considering the outpatient procedure. So until further details are released, that's the assumption.

Brian26
06-11-2007, 11:54 PM
You have first hand knowledge that Joe didn't have the surgery because of financial considerations? ROFL, sure ya do.

Yes, I'm the first person making this claim. This wasn't discussed over every major media outlet this winter, nor did Kenny Williams discuss it firsthand at Soxfest. :rolleyes:

Brian26
06-12-2007, 12:08 AM
It's beyond cynical to accuse a man making a life changing MEDICAL decision based on his contract status.

Right.

From the May 24 Sun-Times:

Surgery was almost an option for Crede last fall, but after seeing doctors and talking with specialists, he and his camp decided to continue an offseason strengthening program.

Want to bet his camp includes his agent and his agent's team? Or am I being too cynical?

MRM
06-12-2007, 12:31 AM
Right.

From the May 24 Sun-Times:



Want to bet his camp includes his agent and his agent's team? Or am I being too cynical?

I guess you'd have to ask the sun-times since they obviously speculated who made the decision.

The decision, ultimately, was up to Joe with input from all sorts of people. Mainly, I'm sure, his family and his doctors. I'm sure the team and his agent also gave their opinions but I doubt either held much sway.

You are ASSUMING his agent pushed him away from surgery for financial reasons...even if that were true what did they have to gain by having Joe avoid this miraculous surgery you seem to think would have fixed him right up? I mean, wouldn't it be to their BENEFIT to have Joe producing at 100%?

Your argument makes no sense. You claim Joe screwed the Sox by not having the surgery because it would have made his owie go away but, at the same time, you accuse his agent of preventing the surgery for "financial reasons". Considering that without the surgery there would always be a question about how his back will hold up, it could only HURT him financially to shy away from this simple little procedure you think he should have had.

Financially, HAVING the surgery would have made much more sense IF it could eliminate the questions about his durability due to back issues. Or do you think Boras just hates Joe Crede and doesn't want to get the best possible deal for him?

Grzegorz
06-12-2007, 05:48 AM
Want to bet his camp includes his agent and his agent's team? Or am I being too cynical?

So, do you know if his camp went against the medical opinion of the providers who examined him?

SBSoxFan
06-12-2007, 09:16 AM
Yep, correct on all accounts.

I thought it was Juan's decision to abandon the leg kick. :dunno:

Lip Man 1
06-12-2007, 01:12 PM
Steve Rosenbloom's comments on this situation:

Of course, it only gets worse for the Sox: Joe Crede decided that now -- now in the middle of the season -- that he will have back surgery (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/423779,CST-SPT-sox12.article). Two months before he can think of rehabbing anything, and by then the Sox will be the Devil Rays. Sox muckamucks didn’t like Crede’s agent before, and now it sounds like they’re not crazy about the kid himself. The guy with the bad back has himself a bad front, too.

Charles Tillman had back surgery in the offseason (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/bears/423603,CST-SPT-bear12.article)so he’ll likely be ready for training camp and certainly the regular season. This is the way you’re supposed to do it, so here’s The Choice (and remember, death is not an option): Joe Crede’s selfishness or Joe Crede’s stupidity?

Lip

Jerome
06-12-2007, 01:47 PM
I met Ron Kittle on Saturday, he says the blame shouldn't fall on Walker but it will, and that he's sorry to see what's happend because the two are good friends.

The Sox had such a good offense last year, and to go to worst in the league with basically the same players...I know injuries have really really hurt of late, but the hitting coach has to go. Sorry Greg.

MRM
06-12-2007, 03:01 PM
Steve Rosenbloom's comments on this situation:

Of course, it only gets worse for the Sox: Joe Crede decided that now -- now in the middle of the season -- that he will have back surgery (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/423779,CST-SPT-sox12.article). Two months before he can think of rehabbing anything, and by then the Sox will be the Devil Rays. Sox muckamucks didn’t like Crede’s agent before, and now it sounds like they’re not crazy about the kid himself. The guy with the bad back has himself a bad front, too.

Charles Tillman had back surgery in the offseason (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/bears/423603,CST-SPT-bear12.article)so he’ll likely be ready for training camp and certainly the regular season. This is the way you’re supposed to do it, so here’s The Choice (and remember, death is not an option): Joe Crede’s selfishness or Joe Crede’s stupidity?

Lip


And the "choice" is that black and white because...?

All back surgeries are not created equally. I don't know or care what sort of surgery Charles Tillman had, but it's completely irrelevant to Joes situation and decision.

spiffie
06-12-2007, 03:09 PM
I guess you'd have to ask the sun-times since they obviously speculated who made the decision.

The decision, ultimately, was up to Joe with input from all sorts of people. Mainly, I'm sure, his family and his doctors. I'm sure the team and his agent also gave their opinions but I doubt either held much sway.

You are ASSUMING his agent pushed him away from surgery for financial reasons...even if that were true what did they have to gain by having Joe avoid this miraculous surgery you seem to think would have fixed him right up? I mean, wouldn't it be to their BENEFIT to have Joe producing at 100%?

Your argument makes no sense. You claim Joe screwed the Sox by not having the surgery because it would have made his owie go away but, at the same time, you accuse his agent of preventing the surgery for "financial reasons". Considering that without the surgery there would always be a question about how his back will hold up, it could only HURT him financially to shy away from this simple little procedure you think he should have had.

Financially, HAVING the surgery would have made much more sense IF it could eliminate the questions about his durability due to back issues. Or do you think Boras just hates Joe Crede and doesn't want to get the best possible deal for him?
Well considering when it comes to anyone except Crede we seem to think Boras has nearly mystical evil powers to wreak havoc on poor unsuspecting players and owners, I would say if it were any other player we would have no problem saying it was a Boras decision.

And I would say the hope was Crede survives this and next year, maybe with a few rest breaks here and there, gets to FA without surgery, banks the big contract, and then it doesn't matter to Boras if Joe can ever play again. A post-surgery Crede will be considered less desireable, since after the first surgery, there's always the sense that he's tried to have the problem fixed, and any new problems could be career-threatening.

MRM
06-12-2007, 03:14 PM
I met Ron Kittle on Saturday

Kittle is a great guy. He used to live next door to my uncle in Indiana. The man is full of stories from his playing days and loves to tell them. He'd also be a good one to talk to about back surgery, which he had and effectively ended his career (he did play a little over 100 games after the surgery but was completely ineffective, he did become a pretty good softball player for a few years afterward, though :D:)

Kittle suffered from a herniated disc for years and opted for the same type of treatment Crede has been going through the last couple of seasons. He missed lots of time over the years because the back was acting up (same as Crede) and eventually it go so bad he had to have surgery (ditto Crede again). Lets hope it works out better for Joe than it did for Ron.

MRM
06-12-2007, 03:19 PM
Well considering when it comes to anyone except Crede we seem to think Boras has nearly mystical evil powers to wreak havoc on poor unsuspecting players and owners, I would say if it were any other player we would have no problem saying it was a Boras decision.

And I would say the hope was Crede survives this and next year, maybe with a few rest breaks here and there, gets to FA without surgery, banks the big contract, and then it doesn't matter to Boras if Joe can ever play again. A post-surgery Crede will be considered less desireable, since after the first surgery, there's always the sense that he's tried to have the problem fixed, and any new problems could be career-threatening.

Wow. Talk about massive speculation. Only one problem with this "theory", however. If Boras were any where near this callous where his clients are concerned he'd never HAVE any clients.

SoxSpeed22
06-12-2007, 03:21 PM
Regarding Crede, let's remember that he has had this herniated disc problem for the last two years, it isn't a minor disk repair that Tillman had. I'd rather Fields out there than Crede who can barely swing. This is at least a good opportunity for Fields, but leads to a much longer summer.

salty99
06-12-2007, 03:34 PM
We weren't going anywhere this year with or without a healthy Joe Crede.

spiffie
06-12-2007, 05:22 PM
Wow. Talk about massive speculation. Only one problem with this "theory", however. If Boras were any where near this callous where his clients are concerned he'd never HAVE any clients.
Yes, a plan that if all went well would have meant no surgery, and somewhere in the neighborhood of $50-75 million for Joe sure would be a turn-off.

MRM
06-12-2007, 06:23 PM
Yes, a plan that if all went well would have meant no surgery, and somewhere in the neighborhood of $50-75 million for Joe sure would be a turn-off.

Joe was NEVER going to get a long-term deal as long as questions about his back were around. Herniated discs don't heal themselves. Joe himself even said before the season the best case scenerio this year he was going to need occasional time off to rest the balky back and eventually surgery was probably going to be neccessary. Not exactly a ringing endorsement to potential suitors.

There is nothing sinister about it. No conspiracy. Not even a hard decision given the circumstances. And from everything I've read he's NOT having the disc/nerve surgery, anyhow. He's having a simple fluid draining procedure to reduce pressure around the affected areas. So the question marks will remain, and will continue to hinder any kind of long term deal you seem to think he was going to get even as known damaged goods.