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View Full Version : I'll say it: Terrero should start every day


UserNameBlank
06-11-2007, 09:33 AM
I know there is an extreme amount of Erstad love around here, but when Darin comes back, Terrero should start everyday in CF. Make a choice between Erstad and Pods for LF if Owens or Sweeney aren't going to play everyday, and give Luis a real shot at a full season and let's see what happens. He has murdered Triple A pitching the last two years, and he's always had the talent, so maybe it's finally starting to come out. I really like his glove and his legs, and that bat has some serious power. His career high in home runs per season is 4. He already has equaled that in 37 AB's. Let's see if he can handle a full time role finally because if he can, this would be one of the biggest steals KW has ever gotten.

itsnotrequired
06-11-2007, 09:35 AM
I know there is an extreme amount of Erstad love around here, but when Darin comes back, Terrero should start everyday in CF. Make a choice between Erstad and Pods for LF if Owens or Sweeney aren't going to play everyday, and give Luis a real shot at a full season and let's see what happens. He has murdered Triple A pitching the last two years, and he's always had the talent, so maybe it's finally starting to come out. I really like his glove and his legs, and that bat has some serious power. His career high in home runs per season is 4. He already has equaled that in 37 AB's. Let's see if he can handle a full time role finally because if he can, this would be one of the biggest steals KW has ever gotten.

Madness.

balke
06-11-2007, 09:37 AM
I say we trade him for Rowand while his value is high. :tongue:

Foulke You
06-11-2007, 09:46 AM
Luis looks like he can be a solid addition to our bench but I don't know about him playing every day in CF. You'd be sacrificing a lot of defense in CF when you are comparing him to Erstad's glove. Luis definitely has some nice power and good speed which would make him more valuable to us on the bench when Erstad returns.

balke
06-11-2007, 09:48 AM
Luis looks like he can be a solid addition to our bench but I don't know about him playing every day in CF. You'd be sacrificing a lot of defense in CF when you are comparing him to Erstad's glove. Luis definitely has some nice power and good speed which would make him more valuable to us on the bench when Erstad returns.


This is just another case of fans falling in love with the longball. Its nice to see a few jacks, but if he's going to hit .250, he's not going to help this team. Lack of homeruns is not the problem.

lostfan
06-11-2007, 09:49 AM
I really like Terrero and he's come along nicely but I can't see him as an everyday player. He's reliable coming off the bench, but Erstad is a better player overall.

Maybe in LF next year to replace Pods and if Sweeney/Owens are not ready.

letsgosox1592
06-11-2007, 09:52 AM
I know there is an extreme amount of Erstad love around here, but when Darin comes back, Terrero should start everyday in CF. Make a choice between Erstad and Pods for LF if Owens or Sweeney aren't going to play everyday, and give Luis a real shot at a full season and let's see what happens. He has murdered Triple A pitching the last two years, and he's always had the talent, so maybe it's finally starting to come out. I really like his glove and his legs, and that bat has some serious power. His career high in home runs per season is 4. He already has equaled that in 37 AB's. Let's see if he can handle a full time role finally because if he can, this would be one of the biggest steals KW has ever gotten.

i think he does deserve to keep on playing. i think that when either pods or erstad return from the d.l. they'll send down owens and he will start in either center or left. and when they both return he will platoon with pods and erstad when theirs a lefty pitcher to keep them fresh. he could be starting in right field in a couple of weeks if the sox dont put a good streak of wins cause a lot of teams want dye and sox can get something they need for 2008 and a long time to come.

PatK
06-11-2007, 10:04 AM
Great glove? You mean the same one that dropped that routine fly ball on Friday night?

The guy us nothing more than a journeyman. Although I would still rather see him in the outfield than Mac.

lostfan
06-11-2007, 10:08 AM
The guy us nothing more than a journeyman.
If that's what he is, he's a good journeyman. Don't underestimate their importance to a team.

Does anyone besides me miss Ross Gload?

UserNameBlank
06-11-2007, 10:18 AM
How has Erstad been a better player?

Terrero, 27:
37 ABs, 7 R, 4 HR, 7 RBI, 3 BB, 9 K, 0-0 stealing, .270/.372/.595, .967 OPS

Erstad, 33:
182 ABs, 1 DL visit, 21 R, 8 2B, 2 HR, 21 RBI, 13 BB, 23 K, 7-9 stealing, .264/.311/.341, .652 OPS, 198453478.34 in GARP (grinding above replacement player)

It's a small sample size for Terrero, because he's on the bench, but sometimes it takes a while for a player to break out. He's shown the last two years that he's well above the Triple A level, so why not give him a shot? What's the point of putting Erstad in CF on a team going nowhere?

Worse case scenario, Terrero puts up middling numbers in CF and nobody's hurt because the season is down the crapper. Best case scenario, we end up with a solid starting CF. Low risk, high reward, so why not take the chance?

UserNameBlank
06-11-2007, 10:19 AM
Great glove? You mean the same one that dropped that routine fly ball on Friday night?

The guy us nothing more than a journeyman. Although I would still rather see him in the outfield than Mac.
Yeah, because one bad play makes someone useless...

eriqjaffe
06-11-2007, 10:21 AM
If that's what he is, he's a good journeyman. Don't underestimate their importance to a team.Absolutely. Terrero is a somewhat better Timo Perez - nice to have as a backup, but you don't want to rely on him for any serious amount of time.

lostfan
06-11-2007, 10:25 AM
Absolutely. Terrero is a somewhat better Timo Perez - nice to have as a backup, but you don't want to rely on him for any serious amount of time.
That's what Cintron, Macowiak, and Ozuna are supposed to be, and until this year they were good at it.

balke
06-11-2007, 10:28 AM
How has Erstad been a better player?

Terrero, 27:
37 ABs, 7 R, 4 HR, 7 RBI, 3 BB, 9 K, 0-0 stealing, .270/.372/.595, .967 OPS

Erstad, 33:
182 ABs, 1 DL visit, 21 R, 8 2B, 2 HR, 21 RBI, 13 BB, 23 K, 7-9 stealing, .264/.311/.341, .652 OPS, 198453478.34 in GARP (grinding above replacement player)

It's a small sample size for Terrero, because he's on the bench, but sometimes it takes a while for a player to break out. He's shown the last two years that he's well above the Triple A level, so why not give him a shot? What's the point of putting Erstad in CF on a team going nowhere?

Worse case scenario, Terrero puts up middling numbers in CF and nobody's hurt because the season is down the crapper. Best case scenario, we end up with a solid starting CF. Low risk, high reward, so why not take the chance?


Worst case scenario, Terrero hits 2 more hr's the rest of the season, K's 130 times, 18 doubles tops, and finishes at .220 avg. with a 290 OBP.

He could also do really well which would be nice, but don't kid yourself into thinking he couldn't end up being really bad.

UserNameBlank
06-11-2007, 10:36 AM
Worst case scenario, Terrero hits 2 more hr's the rest of the season, K's 130 times, 18 doubles tops, and finishes at .220 avg. with a 290 OBP.

He could also do really well which would be nice, but don't kid yourself into thinking he couldn't end up being really bad.
He could be really bad, obviously by his major league career numbers, but IMO he should start the next at least 30-40 games and let's see what he does. If he continues putting up good numbers, let him play the rest of the season. If not, call up Anderson again. I think it's worth a shot though.

SoxxoS
06-11-2007, 11:13 AM
He actually hasn't been given THAT much of a chance to hit major league pitching yet -

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/T/luis-terrero.shtml

He has had 404 at bats - 229 coming as a 24 year old and 161 as a 25 year old - That isn't THAT many - And he could rake pretty decently in the minors.

He shouldn't be starting, but he could be a decent bench guy. He already has more HR's than he had in those 229 at bats in Arizona.

JorgeFabregas
06-11-2007, 11:24 AM
Worst case scenario, Terrero hits 2 more hr's the rest of the season, K's 130 times, 18 doubles tops, and finishes at .220 avg. with a 290 OBP.

He could also do really well which would be nice, but don't kid yourself into thinking he couldn't end up being really bad.
Huh. .290 OBP. That wouldn't be much different than what Erstad's done thus far.

oeo
06-11-2007, 11:31 AM
I know there is an extreme amount of Erstad love around here, but when Darin comes back, Terrero should start everyday in CF. Make a choice between Erstad and Pods for LF if Owens or Sweeney aren't going to play everyday, and give Luis a real shot at a full season and let's see what happens. He has murdered Triple A pitching the last two years, and he's always had the talent, so maybe it's finally starting to come out. I really like his glove and his legs, and that bat has some serious power. His career high in home runs per season is 4. He already has equaled that in 37 AB's. Let's see if he can handle a full time role finally because if he can, this would be one of the biggest steals KW has ever gotten.

I just like the way he hustles; he brings a different energy to this team that we didn't have last year.

I don't think we should bench Erstad unless he proves that he can't do what he was doing anymore. Best case scenario, all of Pods, Erstad, and Terrero are playing well; and we know how Ozzie likes to give all of his bench playing time.

How has Erstad been a better player?

Terrero, 27:
37 ABs, 7 R, 4 HR, 7 RBI, 3 BB, 9 K, 0-0 stealing, .270/.372/.595, .967 OPS

Erstad, 33:
182 ABs, 1 DL visit, 21 R, 8 2B, 2 HR, 21 RBI, 13 BB, 23 K, 7-9 stealing, .264/.311/.341, .652 OPS, 198453478.34 in GARP (grinding above replacement player)

It's a small sample size for Terrero, because he's on the bench, but sometimes it takes a while for a player to break out. He's shown the last two years that he's well above the Triple A level, so why not give him a shot? What's the point of putting Erstad in CF on a team going nowhere?

Worse case scenario, Terrero puts up middling numbers in CF and nobody's hurt because the season is down the crapper. Best case scenario, we end up with a solid starting CF. Low risk, high reward, so why not take the chance?

Big deal if he had a DL visit. Let's just forget about what he did for us before his injury because Terrero had a good game yesterday. :rolleyes:

twsoxfan5
06-11-2007, 11:32 AM
How has Erstad been a better player?

Terrero, 27:
37 ABs, 7 R, 4 HR, 7 RBI, 3 BB, 9 K, 0-0 stealing, .270/.372/.595, .967 OPS

Erstad, 33:
182 ABs, 1 DL visit, 21 R, 8 2B, 2 HR, 21 RBI, 13 BB, 23 K, 7-9 stealing, .264/.311/.341, .652 OPS, 198453478.34 in GARP (grinding above replacement player)

It's a small sample size for Terrero, because he's on the bench, but sometimes it takes a while for a player to break out. He's shown the last two years that he's well above the Triple A level, so why not give him a shot? What's the point of putting Erstad in CF on a team going nowhere?

Worse case scenario, Terrero puts up middling numbers in CF and nobody's hurt because the season is down the crapper. Best case scenario, we end up with a solid starting CF. Low risk, high reward, so why not take the chance?

Erstad has been better by being a major leaguer and having 182 ABs compared to 37ABs. What does Erstad have to do before we stop with all the dumb grinder jokes. He was the one consistent member of our team before he was injured. Not to mention he started playing a position that he hadn't played in years and did pretty well at it.

santo=dorf
06-11-2007, 11:43 AM
I just like the way he hustles; he brings a different energy to this team that we didn't have last year.

I don't think we should bench Erstad unless he proves that he can't do what he was doing anymore. Best case scenario, all of Pods, Erstad, and Terrero are playing well; and we know how Ozzie likes to give all of his bench playing time.
What does that first line even mean?

Erstad is proving that he can't hit LHP anymore and needs to sit on the bench when there is one on the mound.

Terrero against LHP: .263/.364/.737
grinderstad again LHP: .159/.178/.250 Considering he had a homer off of Sabathia in the opener, he REALLY hasn't done anything against LHP for awhile

JB98
06-11-2007, 11:49 AM
Terrero has homered off Washburn, Santana and Rodriguez. He has shown an ability to hit left-handed pitching, which this team needs. He has decent wheels, hustles at all times and plays aggressively. I think he's a platoon player. Start him against left-handed pitching.

balke
06-11-2007, 11:50 AM
Huh. .290 OBP. That wouldn't be much different than what Erstad's done thus far.

That's about .30 pts less than what Erstad will most likely put up, and he won't move runners over like Erstad does, or play as good of defense. I'm not even an Erstad fan, but I can see him giving more production right now. Neither of them looks like the OFer of the future, and neither costs much money.

oeo
06-11-2007, 11:52 AM
What does that first line even mean?

Read on...I don't think he should start, I just like the way he hustles. See: Pablo Ozuna, Ross Gload. Sorry that you only understand statistical crap.

Erstad is proving that he can't hit LHP anymore and needs to sit on the bench when there is one on the mound.

Terrero against LHP: .263/.364/.737
grinderstad again LHP: .159/.178/.250 Considering he had a homer off of Sabathia in the opener, he REALLY hasn't done anything against LHP for awhileWhy is this a surprise coming from you? Way to use yesterday's good game against Wandy Rodriguez to your statistical advantage.

California Sox
06-11-2007, 12:10 PM
Terrero should certainly play against all lefties as none of the group of Mac, Erstad, or Pods really hit lefties all that well. I would rather see him out there than Mackowiak against righties as well. As for will he play in place of Erstad? Never going to happen. Ozzie loves the guy, in part because at this stage of his career he is exactly the same type of offensive player Ozzie was. (No walks, no power, kind of clutchy though.)

eriqjaffe
06-11-2007, 12:17 PM
That's what Cintron, Macowiak, and Ozuna are supposed to be, and until this year they were good at it.Yes, but none of them are really outfielders. Move Mack, and probably Ozuna, out of left field, and their already shaky defense becomes the stuff of nightmares.

lostfan
06-11-2007, 12:26 PM
Yes, but none of them are really outfielders. Move Mack, and probably Ozuna, out of left field, and their already shaky defense becomes the stuff of nightmares.
I wasn't really disagreeing with you.

bryPt
06-11-2007, 12:35 PM
I say we trade him for Rowand while his value is high. :tongue:

Um, I have a scary feeling that something like this may actually happen shortly.

thomas35forever
06-11-2007, 12:54 PM
Um, I have a scary feeling that something like this may actually happen shortly.
Is that something we should be afraid of or giddy about?

ChicagoHoosier
06-11-2007, 01:02 PM
Am I the only one who values outstanding defense in CF? Don't get me wrong, I like this guy's attitude and hustle, but I expect the CF for the White Sox to be gold-glove caliber. We traded one away, we sent one to the minors, and one is on the DL. After those guys, I'll expect nothing less.

I agree with another posted that maybe it's time to give BA another try up here, although I know he's not tearing it up in the minors. But, if I listen to or see another misplayed ball that goes for a double, I'm going to puke.

lostfan
06-11-2007, 01:09 PM
Am I the only one who values outstanding defense in CF? Don't get me wrong, I like this guy's attitude and hustle, but I expect the CF for the White Sox to be gold-glove caliber. We traded one away, we sent one to the minors, and one is on the DL. After those guys, I'll expect nothing less.

I agree with another posted that maybe it's time to give BA another try up here, although I know he's not tearing it up in the minors. But, if I listen to or see another misplayed ball that goes for a double, I'm going to puke.
I think CF is the most important defensive position on the field, followed closely by SS and then C. Great CFs turn extra base hits into singles and outs. Look at how many times Torii Hunter has shafted this team out of potential triples and home runs this year.

A SS, they produce outs and turn DPs, but a ground ball that rolls into the outfield isn't as dangerous as a deep fly ball that lands behind an outfielder and rolls to the warning track.

JorgeFabregas
06-11-2007, 01:28 PM
Erstad has been better by being a major leaguer and having 182 ABs compared to 37ABs. What does Erstad have to do before we stop with all the dumb grinder jokes. He was the one consistent member of our team before he was injured. Not to mention he started playing a position that he hadn't played in years and did pretty well at it.
So he's better because he's been given more ABs? That doesn't make much sense. Sure, he's been consistent. Consistently medicore.

SoxSpeed22
06-11-2007, 01:35 PM
If Dye ends up getting traded, I could live with Terrero starting at right.

oeo
06-11-2007, 01:41 PM
If Dye ends up getting traded, I could live with Terrero starting at right.

This is funny; one good game and you want him replacing Jermaine Dye. This is like how people wanted David Aardsma as our closer in April because of a few good outings. :rolleyes:

lostfan
06-11-2007, 01:45 PM
This is funny; one good game and you want him replacing Jermaine Dye. This is like how people wanted David Aardsma as our closer in April because of a few good outings. :rolleyes:
That's not what he meant, not even close.

billcissell
06-11-2007, 01:53 PM
Terrero deserves a chance to start so we can see what he really does over an extended period of time.

He's got the skills, I'm just not sure if he can make the most out of them. Can he hit consistently for power, perform in the clutch with runners in scoring position, make all the plays in the field? I guess we'll find out over the next month or so.

The Mac experiment in the outfield is over. If Terrero does well, he may just be a corner outfielder for us in '08.

jabrch
06-11-2007, 01:58 PM
If Dye ends up getting traded, I could live with Terrero starting at right.

If we trade Dye, I can live with anyone in RF because it means we are giving up on 2007. In that case, we should see Anderson and Sweeney back up.

Terrero will never be an every day OF, and shouldn't be treated as such. He's a nice 4th or 5th OF, and has value in that role.

SoxSpeed22
06-11-2007, 02:03 PM
This is funny; one good game and you want him replacing Jermaine Dye. This is like how people wanted David Aardsma as our closer in April because of a few good outings. :rolleyes:Where did you get that from? :?:
It has been rumored for the last few weeks that LA and San Diego want to trade for Dye. If the Sox continue scuffling the way they have been, it would make sense to trade Dye and get a couple players since he's a free agent at the end of the year anyway. If that happens, Terrero can play right for the rest of the year, Ozzie and Kenny can figure out the team in '08 much better because they can evaluate the young guys.

eriqjaffe
06-11-2007, 02:06 PM
Great CFs turn extra base hits into singles and outs. Look at how many times Torii Hunter has shafted this team out of potential triples and home runs this year.:mack:
"Umm...yeah, sorry about last year, guys."

oeo
06-11-2007, 02:09 PM
That's not what he meant, not even close.

One 2-4 day made his stats look great. I'm not ready to expect Terrero to match the production JD can give us. Just like after Aardsma had a few good outings, I wasn't ready to anoint him our best reliever.

Where did you get that from? :?:
It has been rumored for the last few weeks that LA and San Diego want to trade for Dye. If the Sox continue scuffling the way they have been, it would make sense to trade Dye and get a couple players since he's a free agent at the end of the year anyway. If that happens, Terrero can play right for the rest of the year, Ozzie and Kenny can figure out the team in '08 much better because they can evaluate the young guys.

If by the last few weeks, you mean the past week. I still don't think Terrero is an everyday starter, and if we're out of it and trade Dye, I want to see Anderson and Sweeney getting big league ABs, not the 27-year-old journeyman.

lostfan
06-11-2007, 02:15 PM
One 2-4 day made his stats look great. I'm not ready to expect Terrero to match the production JD can give us. Just like after Aardsma had a few good outings, I wasn't ready to anoint him our best reliever.



If by the last few weeks, you mean that past week. I still don't think Terrero is an everyday starter, and if we're out of it and trade Dye, I want to see Anderson and Sweeney getting big league ABs, not the 27-year-old journeyman.
That's still not the point. It's realistic to see Dye getting traded, and Terrero is a serviceable option in RF until a longer-term solution is figured out (probably Sweeney). The majority of us seem to think that Terrero is a good bench player but not an every day starter, a few do think he's capable of starting. But nobody is suggesting that Dye get dumped because Terrero's a better player. That'd be dumb, even with Dye's terrible numbers this year.

WhiteSox5187
06-11-2007, 04:48 PM
Terrero, like Mackowiak and Pablo, is a nice player off the bench. Put him in the starting lineup everyday and he winds up hitting about .220 much like Mackowiak.

Daver
06-11-2007, 05:09 PM
I know there is an extreme amount of Erstad love around here, but when Darin comes back, Terrero should start everyday in CF. Make a choice between Erstad and Pods for LF if Owens or Sweeney aren't going to play everyday, and give Luis a real shot at a full season and let's see what happens. He has murdered Triple A pitching the last two years, and he's always had the talent, so maybe it's finally starting to come out. I really like his glove and his legs, and that bat has some serious power. His career high in home runs per season is 4. He already has equaled that in 37 AB's. Let's see if he can handle a full time role finally because if he can, this would be one of the biggest steals KW has ever gotten.

Did you drink breakfast?

santo=dorf
06-11-2007, 06:38 PM
Big deal if he had a DL visit. Let's just forget about what he did for us before his injury because Terrero had a good game yesterday. :rolleyes:
So then how come in another thread (I think it was when Crede went on the DL) you were whining about how the Sox get unfair breaks with injuries and specifically mentioned Erstad's name with Pods and Crede, ALL of whom are injury risks?
Read on...I don't think he should start, I just like the way he hustles. See: Pablo Ozuna, Ross Gload. Sorry that you only understand statistical crap.
So nobody besides Pablo and Erstad hustle on our team? That's a nice slap in the face the other 20+ guys we had on our team. That's why I hate made up stuff which you can't measure because it makes others look bad.

Why is this a surprise coming from you? Way to use yesterday's good game against Wandy Rodriguez to your statistical advantage.
He also homered off of Johan Santana and Jarrod Washburn when nobody else in our lineup could.

That's about .30 pts less than what Erstad will most likely put up, and he won't move runners over like Erstad does, or play as good of defense. I'm not even an Erstad fan, but I can see him giving more production right now. Neither of them looks like the OFer of the future, and neither costs much money.
Get this, Erstad has move the runners over as a result from his grounders a whopping 5 times. Only once did that moving over contribute to the run scoring. It was the Saturday game in Cleveland where Pods got on base, stole second, Erstad grinded out, and Konerko grounded out to bring in the run. That's it, and that's all.

UserNameBlank
06-11-2007, 08:21 PM
Did you drink breakfast?
If you consider huffing drinking and paint thinner breakfast, then yeah, I had my fill this morning. The only thing I could think of doing afterwards with my four remaining brain cells, other than build a pirate ship of course, was come to WSI and start a thread about Luis Terrero.

During the Sox game vs. the Astros, Mark Grace made an interesting comment about Terrero. Now, Mark knows quite a bit about ex-Diamondbacks players since he has been their color man since 2004. After watching Luis play in 150 ballgames with Arizona, it was Grace's opinion that the reason Terrero hadn't been able to stick in the big leagues is because he couldn't handle the inside pitch.

Just tonight, Luis hit an inside pitch for a solid single. The longest of his four home runs so far was off an inside fastball, and that was a bomb.

As of right now, in 105 AB's combined between the major leagues and Charlotte, Luis has 8 HR. Last year, he had 17 combined in the majors and in Triple A. The year before, 13, and the year before that, 4. Maybe he's starting to figure it out. Who knows? But he's been productive and it can't hurt to give him a shot. Erstad OTOH is a waste of OF space on a non-contending team. So is Pods for that matter.

Worse case scenario, he sucks in regular playing time and proves himself a bench player for life. Best case scenario, we have a solid CF that cost the Sox nothing.

JB98
06-11-2007, 08:26 PM
If you consider huffing drinking and paint thinner breakfast, then yeah, I had my fill this morning. The only thing I could think of doing afterwards with my four remaining brain cells, other than build a pirate ship of course, was come to WSI and start a thread about Luis Terrero.

During the Sox game vs. the Astros, Mark Grace made an interesting comment about Terrero. Now, Mark knows quite a bit about ex-Diamondbacks players since he has been their color man since 2004. After watching Luis play in 150 ballgames with Arizona, it was Grace's opinion that the reason Terrero hadn't been able to stick in the big leagues is because he couldn't handle the inside pitch.

Just tonight, Luis hit an inside pitch for a solid single. The longest of his four home runs so far was off an inside fastball, and that was a bomb.

As of right now, in 105 AB's combined between the major leagues and Charlotte, Luis has 8 HR. Last year, he had 17 combined in the majors and in Triple A. The year before, 13, and the year before that, 4. Maybe he's starting to figure it out. Who knows? But he's been productive and it can't hurt to give him a shot. Erstad OTOH is a waste of OF space on a non-contending team. So is Pods for that matter.

Worse case scenario, he sucks in regular playing time and proves himself a bench player for life. Best case scenario, we have a solid CF that cost the Sox nothing.

Actually, Terrero's 442-foot blast was off a hanging breaking ball from Shields of Tampa Bay.

FarWestChicago
06-11-2007, 08:28 PM
That's why I hate made up stuff which you can't measure because it makes others look bad.You make stuff up all the time to make players look bad. You actively pull for Sox players to fail. Hold yourself to the same standard to which you hold others.

UserNameBlank
06-11-2007, 08:37 PM
Actually, Terrero's 442-foot blast was off a hanging breaking ball from Shields of Tampa Bay.
Oh, I thought it was a fastball. It was still inside though wasn't it? I can't watch the MLB videos on IE7 for some reason.

JB98
06-11-2007, 08:41 PM
Oh, I thought it was a fastball. It was still inside though wasn't it? I can't watch the MLB videos on IE7 for some reason.

Middle-in, yeah, but that was a fat pitch, IIRC.

Grzegorz
06-11-2007, 08:45 PM
What does Erstad have to do before we stop with all the dumb grinder jokes.

Find a cure for Alzheimer's???

Face it; Erstad has surpassed everyone's expectations on this board. He's easily surpassed my expectations.

He deserves his starting position; and he's better defensively than Terrero. Of all the positions that need an upgrade it seems some want to "fix" the position that needs the least amount of tinkering.

Erstad has been doing a good job day in day out.

If you want pretty go to the north side. If you want a guy that plays hard with grit look to Erstad.

JB98
06-11-2007, 08:47 PM
Find a cure for Alzheimer's???

Face it; Erstad has surpassed everyone's expectations on this board. He's easily surpassed my expectations.

He deserves his starting position; and he's better defensively than Terrero. Of all the positions that need an upgrade it seems some want to "fix" the position that needs the least amount of tinkering.

Erstad has been doing a good job day in day out.

If you want pretty go to the north side. If you want a guy that plays hard with grit look to Erstad.

This club hasn't exactly been playing well since Erstad went down. People who think we don't miss him are just crazy. As soon as Darin is healthy, he's back to being the everyday CF.

santo=dorf
06-11-2007, 08:58 PM
Find a cure for Alzheimer's???

Face it; Erstad has surpassed everyone's expectations on this board. He's easily surpassed my expectations.

He deserves his starting position; and he's better defensively than Terrero. Of all the positions that need an upgrade it seems some want to "fix" the position that needs the least amount of tinkering.

Erstad has been doing a good job day in day out.

If you want pretty go to the north side. If you want a guy that plays hard with grit look to Erstad.
Do you honestly think that EVERYONE on this board had Erstad pegged for numbers below .311 OBP and .341 SLG%? Did you conviently forget about how many threads blew up because people kept bringing up his empty career .285 batting average? He's hitting 20 points below that right now so the people who were expecting that career average to show up aren't having their expectations met. Even I was expecting him to hit around .270 and put up a low .700 OPS, but he can't do it.

Tragg
06-11-2007, 09:08 PM
Find a cure for Alzheimer's???

Face it; Erstad has surpassed everyone's expectations on this board. He's easily surpassed my expectations.

Erstad has an OBP of .311 and a slugging percentage of .341. That isn't very good. For a lead-off hitter, it's poorIf that exceeded expectations, expectations were ridiculously low (I was/am a critic and I conceded he'd deliver .320-.330). The much maligned Pods has outhit that in each of his 3 seasons on the southside.

That said, compared to the rest of the team, he seems like an all star. Konerko, Dye, Iguchi, Crede ---->all hitting well below expectations. Erstad is hitting within a reasonable distance of expectation, which is novel on this team this year.

balke
06-11-2007, 09:18 PM
He also homered off of Johan Santana and Jarrod Washburn when nobody else in our lineup could.


Get this, Erstad has move the runners over as a result from his grounders a whopping 5 times. Only once did that moving over contribute to the run scoring. It was the Saturday game in Cleveland where Pods got on base, stole second, Erstad grinded out, and Konerko grounded out to bring in the run. That's it, and that's all.

Oh wow, he homered off who? WOW. SIGN HIM LONG TERM!!! I BET NOONE THAT SUCKS EVER HIT A HR OFF OF JOHAN SANTANA!

Erstad bats leadoff on the worst hitting team in baseball. 5 is probably a high # in that regard. Terrero is not as good as Erstad, and not much cheaper. I don't see what the point of this thread is anymore, except someone saw a big HR and got all giddy inside. see: JOE BORCHARD.

UserNameBlank
06-11-2007, 09:41 PM
Oh wow, he homered off who? WOW. SIGN HIM LONG TERM!!! I BET NOONE THAT SUCKS EVER HIT A HR OFF OF JOHAN SANTANA!

Erstad bats leadoff on the worst hitting team in baseball. 5 is probably a high # in that regard. Terrero is not as good as Erstad, and not much cheaper. I don't see what the point of this thread is anymore, except someone saw a big HR and got all giddy inside. see: JOE BORCHARD.
Do you read anything that anyone posts? Or do you just ignore everything and continue stating your opinion over and over?

Home runs = production. Terrero has been producing. Erstad has had some clutch RBI's and a whole bunch of a grindouts. More than anything, Erstad is not the answer to a sub-.500 veteran team. Maybe Terrero isn't either, but it's a lot easier to defend giving Terrero a chance to prove himself than it is to defend putting Erstad out there for no reason at all.

If this team was hitting like it should, and Thome-Paulie-Dye all had numbers similar to the numbers they had at this point last year, I'm willing to bet that the majority of the people here would be complaining about our .264-hitting leadoff man in exactly the same way they were complaining about Pods last year. But because Erstad's .264 batting average and .311 on base percentage looks like Danny DeVito surrounded by circus midgets, everyone loves him. I don't get it.

balke
06-11-2007, 09:51 PM
Do you read anything that anyone posts? Or do you just ignore everything and continue stating your opinion over and over?

Home runs = production. Terrero has been producing. Erstad has had some clutch RBI's and a whole bunch of a grindouts. More than anything, Erstad is not the answer to a sub-.500 veteran team. Maybe Terrero isn't either, but it's a lot easier to defend giving Terrero a chance to prove himself than it is to defend putting Erstad out there for no reason at all.

If this team was hitting like it should, and Thome-Paulie-Dye all had numbers similar to the numbers they had at this point last year, I'm willing to bet that the majority of the people here would be complaining about our .264-hitting leadoff man in exactly the same way they were complaining about Pods last year. But because Erstad's .264 batting average and .311 on base percentage looks like Danny DeVito surrounded by circus midgets, everyone loves him. I don't get it.

If Erstad were hitting his career .280, and Luis Terrero was in the minors hitting his career .239, we wouldn't have this conversation either. Terrero is hitting .268, if you love Hr's that much maybe we should get Borchard back.

JorgeFabregas
06-11-2007, 10:07 PM
if you love Hr's that much maybe we should get Borchard back.
Nice straw man.

santo=dorf
06-11-2007, 10:15 PM
Oh wow, he homered off who? WOW. SIGN HIM LONG TERM!!! I BET NOONE THAT SUCKS EVER HIT A HR OFF OF JOHAN SANTANA!

Erstad bats leadoff on the worst hitting team in baseball. 5 is probably a high # in that regard. Terrero is not as good as Erstad, and not much cheaper. I don't see what the point of this thread is anymore, except someone saw a big HR and got all giddy inside. see: JOE BORCHARD.
Nice Strawman, really.

Barry Bonds hits a lot of home runs too.

5 is "probably high?" He's had 62 at bats with runners on base and 18 hits. So that's 11.4% of his outs where he actually move the runners over. Color me unimpressed. I rather see him make fewer outs and get on base, you know, like a leadoff man is supposed to.

balke
06-11-2007, 10:27 PM
Nice Strawman, really.

Barry Bonds hits a lot of home runs too.

5 is "probably high?" He's had 62 at bats with runners on base and 18 hits. So that's 11.4% of his outs where he actually move the runners over. Color me unimpressed. I rather see him make fewer outs and get on base, you know, like a leadoff man is supposed to.

Make no mistake, Erstad isn't good. But Terrero everyday is the question, and the answer is no.

A. Cavatica
06-11-2007, 10:36 PM
This season looks like a good one to give 200 AB to each of Anderson, Fields, Owens, Sweeney, and Terrero, and hope two of next year's regulars come out of that group.

Erstad? Podsednik? Mackowiak? None of these guys should be starters on a good team; I don't see why you'd play them.

MRM
06-11-2007, 11:08 PM
Erstad? Podsednik? Mackowiak? None of these guys should be starters on a good team; I don't see why you'd play them.

Um, both Erstad and Pods were starters and key cogs on World Series winning teams.

A. Cavatica
06-11-2007, 11:18 PM
Um, both Erstad and Pods were starters and key cogs on World Series winning teams.

Not lately.

Jerome
06-11-2007, 11:32 PM
Erstad or Terrero for every day starting CF? :whiner: Is death an option? These guys have filled in admirably this year in the wake of injuries but I don't think either are ideal permanent choices for CF. Erstad was playing decent before his injury howere, and should be given his starting job back. I agree with the thoughts that Terrero is not much more than a glorified Timo Perez.

MRM
06-11-2007, 11:52 PM
Not lately.

2 years ago and 5 years ago isn't recent enough for you?

A. Cavatica
06-12-2007, 12:20 AM
2 years ago and 5 years ago isn't recent enough for you?

Both Pods and Erstad are below-average major league hitters and both get hurt a lot. Erstad's glory days are far behind him. Pods is a poor outfielder who's losing his speed, which was his one good tool.

oeo
06-12-2007, 12:29 AM
So then how come in another thread (I think it was when Crede went on the DL) you were whining about how the Sox get unfair breaks with injuries and specifically mentioned Erstad's name with Pods and Crede, ALL of whom are injury risks?

:?:

How are these two discussions even related?

So nobody besides Pablo and Erstad hustle on our team? That's a nice slap in the face the other 20+ guys we had on our team. That's why I hate made up stuff which you can't measure because it makes others look bad.What? I said I like his hustle as a guy off the bench. I said nothing about other guys not hustling (didn't even mention Erstad), but thank you for putting words into my mouth.

He also homered off of Johan Santana and Jarrod Washburn when nobody else in our lineup could.Here's a thumbs up for him: :thumbsup:

Get this, Erstad has move the runners over as a result from his grounders a whopping 5 times. Only once did that moving over contribute to the run scoring. It was the Saturday game in Cleveland where Pods got on base, stole second, Erstad grinded out, and Konerko grounded out to bring in the run. That's it, and that's all.Erstad was batting .295 as our lead-off hitter and has batted unbelievably well with runners in scoring position...especially with two outs. Keep whining all you want about him, but he was getting the job done. Terrero had a good game...Erstad gave us multiple key hits; you keep loving the 27-year-old journeyman, though.

A. Cavatica
06-12-2007, 12:42 AM
:?:
Erstad was batting .295 as our lead-off hitter and has batted unbelievably well with runners in scoring position...especially with two outs. Keep whining all you want about him, but he was getting the job done. Terrero had a good game...Erstad gave us multiple key hits; you keep loving the 27-year-old journeyman, though.

Erstad has a .311 on-base percentage and a .341 slugging percentage, which may be "getting the job done", but it's not getting the job done well.

League average at this point is .336 OBP and .419 SLG. Team average is .305 OBP and .365 SLG, so Erstad's not even demonstrably better than average on the worst-hitting team in baseball.

Terrero only has 37 AB but has been getting the job done well, so yeah -- I'd rather see the 27 year old journeyman out there than the 33 year old journeyman.

oeo
06-12-2007, 12:45 AM
Erstad has a .311 on-base percentage and a .341 slugging percentage, which may be "getting the job done", but it's not getting the job done well.

League average at this point is .336 OBP and .419 SLG. Team average is .305 OBP and .365 SLG, so Erstad's not even demonstrably better than average on the worst-hitting team in baseball.

Terrero only has 37 AB but has been getting the job done well, so yeah -- I'd rather see the 27 year old journeyman out there than the 33 year old journeyman.

Those numbers are that bad because of a slow start. Since he got the leadoff spot, his numbers have been different.

Again, Terrero had ONE good game. What's with Sox fans loving a guy after a good game or two? Until he proves he can consistently do it, he needs to be on the bench.

Nellie_Fox
06-12-2007, 12:59 AM
What's with Sox fans loving a guy after a good game or two? Until he proves he can consistently do it, he needs to be on the bench.It's the same phenomenon that makes the backup quarterback the most popular guy on any NFL team that is not playing exceptionally well (and even some that are.) It's easy to love the guy who hasn't done anything to piss you off yet.

MRM
06-12-2007, 01:38 AM
Again, Terrero had ONE good game. What's with Sox fans loving a guy after a good game or two?

The same thing that has a fan ready to bury the team after a 6 game losing streak yet find hope in a single win only to go back to doom and gloom when that's followed by a loss. I'm starting to think that most Sox fans are either:

Mod edit for comment that could easily be construed as sexist.
2) Emotionally unstable.
3) Bitter about their own lives and need to vent

I'm a Sox fan since I was old enough to know what baseball was, have been to hundreds of games listened to/watched hundreds of others, spent thousands of hours listening to sports talk about the Sox/searching online concerning the team and I've yet to figure out the average fan. The negativity is amazing. Perhaps I was lucky to leave the South side of Chicago at the age of 15, maybe thats it?

JB98
06-12-2007, 01:48 AM
This thread is really getting silly. The statheads hate Erstad and had their minds made up about him before we played a single game this season. Amusingly, the statheads now think Terrero should start ahead of Erstad. This is crazy. I don't really give a crap about anyone's OPS. Erstad was our most consistent performer both offensively and defensively before he went on the DL. Terrero looks like a platoon player to me: He swings the bat better against lefties than quite a few guys on our team.

TheVulture
06-12-2007, 03:20 AM
Why has this even devolved into a Terrero v. Erstad argument? The last I checked, the sox ain't looking too good in left OR center. RF's not so hot either, with that boat about to set sail. I agree with those that say Terrero should get a shot playing everyday, and I agree with those that say Erstad should be back in the lineup when healthy. I don't really see a conflict other than who slides to left.

santo=dorf
06-12-2007, 06:27 AM
This thread is really getting silly. The statheads hate Erstad and had their minds made up about him before we played a single game this season. Amusingly, the statheads now think Terrero should start ahead of Erstad. This is crazy. I don't really give a crap about anyone's OPS. Erstad was our most consistent performer both offensively and defensively before he went on the DL. Terrero looks like a platoon player to me: He swings the bat better against lefties than quite a few guys on our team.
I only support Terrero playing over Erstad against LHP. I'm sick of people making excuses for Erstad's poor performance. Anyone who thinks "Since you are making arguments against Erstad you must be in favor of Terrero starting over him full time" is missing the point.

-"He Hustles" - So what? Is this some new phenomenon? Nobody else on our team plays hard?
-"He moves runners over well." - 11.4% of his outs with runners on base allowed to runners to move over. Not impressed.
-"His numbers are only bad because he got off to a bad start." - OK, let's just ignore the bad numbers to skew the argument. Really fair. If you take away the 3 homers Javy gave up tonight, we probably would've won the game!
-"He batted .295 as the leadoff man." - True, but more importantly he had a .338 OBP. That's not good for a leadoff man. Amongst the 42 qualified players who have had at least 50 PA's in the leadoff spot, that .338 puts him 30th. :rolleyes:

Oh, but he does have a tough, hardnose, grinder, Grabowski, just a baseball player, tin lunchbox, run through walls, type mentality that this team just desperately needed.

SBSoxFan
06-12-2007, 07:41 AM
Why has this even devolved into a Terrero v. Erstad argument? The last I checked, the sox ain't looking too good in left OR center. RF's not so hot either, with that boat about to set sail. I agree with those that say Terrero should get a shot playing everyday, and I agree with those that say Erstad should be back in the lineup when healthy. I don't really see a conflict other than who slides to left.

I saw this thread when it was about 10 posts old, and I agreed with its premise. I agree with what you say as well Vulture. Given the situation, Terrero's been playing well enough to play fairly regularly. He's only had 48 total plate appearances, but Terrero's OPS is second on the team at 0.923. The main question is should that be in LF or RF? If we assume Erstad comes back healthy, Erstad slips back into CF and Terrero moves to LF. Then when Pods comes back, Terrero's back on the bench. Going on 3 years now, this team plays best, and is one of the best in MLB, with Pods in the lineup. At least by then, we may have some confidence that Terrero would be a useful backup for either Pods or Erstad. Honestly, if Dye continues to hit like he has, I wouldn't mind Terrero subbing in RF as well.

And for all who claim that Pods and Erstad are injury prone, I disagree. I posted the numbers in another thread, and they just don't show "injury prone" to me.

Law11
06-12-2007, 11:46 AM
Anyone else think Terrero looks a lot like Lyle Mouton as far as his presence and swing at the plate... He's built a lot like Lyle was with a very similar swing.. I know.. pointless comment but something I noticed recently..

Frater Perdurabo
06-12-2007, 05:53 PM
I agree with JB98. Terrero seems like a great platoon partner.

Assuming the Sox are not 25 games back when both Pods and Erstad return, the team deserves about two weeks to see if the two of them together can ignite the offense.

In that case, Terrero would be an ideal 4th OF who could spell either one of them against LHP. There are a lot of LHP in the AL Central, and the Sox play a lot of games against AL Central rivals during the second half of the season.

Therefore, Terrero could get lots of plate appearances and have an opportunity to contribute to the offense.

JB98
06-12-2007, 05:58 PM
I only support Terrero playing over Erstad against LHP. I'm sick of people making excuses for Erstad's poor performance. Anyone who thinks "Since you are making arguments against Erstad you must be in favor of Terrero starting over him full time" is missing the point.

-"He Hustles" - So what? Is this some new phenomenon? Nobody else on our team plays hard?
-"He moves runners over well." - 11.4% of his outs with runners on base allowed to runners to move over. Not impressed.
-"His numbers are only bad because he got off to a bad start." - OK, let's just ignore the bad numbers to skew the argument. Really fair. If you take away the 3 homers Javy gave up tonight, we probably would've won the game!
-"He batted .295 as the leadoff man." - True, but more importantly he had a .338 OBP. That's not good for a leadoff man. Amongst the 42 qualified players who have had at least 50 PA's in the leadoff spot, that .338 puts him 30th. :rolleyes:

Oh, but he does have a tough, hardnose, grinder, Grabowski, just a baseball player, tin lunchbox, run through walls, type mentality that this team just desperately needed.

We've played extremely well since Erstad went down. The club is a robust 3-8 since Darin went on the DL. If you don't think the team misses him, you're crazy. Sorry, but speed, hustle and defense matter.

A. Cavatica
06-12-2007, 08:25 PM
We've played extremely well since Erstad went down. The club is a robust 3-8 since Darin went on the DL. If you don't think the team misses him, you're crazy. Sorry, but speed, hustle and defense matter.

They miss Rowand more.

UserNameBlank
06-12-2007, 08:32 PM
We've played extremely well since Erstad went down. The club is a robust 3-8 since Darin went on the DL. If you don't think the team misses him, you're crazy. Sorry, but speed, hustle and defense matter.
I don't even think Pujols could bring this team back into respectability right now. Erstad isn't going to help anything. I like him as a backup, or as a 9th place hitter on a contending team with a true leadoff man, but he is no of use to us anymore.

There are two choices for the Sox:
1. Add more veterans (which will cost what little we have in the minors) or
2. Rebuild...

Just a side note, I'm watching UFC now and Chad Reigner's nickname is "The Grinder." I hope he gets his ass kicked.

LOOLOLOL "The Grinder" got KTFO in the same amount of time it took me to write that sentence.

Anyway, I forgot the point of this post..

Oh yeah, Darin helps us in no way, shape, or form.

JB98
06-12-2007, 08:35 PM
I don't even think Pujols could bring this team back into respectability right now. Erstad isn't going to help anything. I like him as a backup, or as a 9th place hitter on a contending team with a true leadoff man, but he is no of use to us anymore.

There are two choices for the Sox:
1. Add more veterans (which will cost what little we have in the minors) or
2. Rebuild...

Just a side note, I'm watching UFC now and Chad Reigner's nickname is "The Grinder." I hope he gets his ass kicked.

LOOLOLOL "The Grinder" got KTFO in the same amount of time it took me to write that sentence.

Anyway, I forgot the point of this post..

Oh yeah, Darin helps us in no way, shape, or form.

You honestly don't think Erstad is better than Owens/Mackowiak/Terrero?

soxwon
06-12-2007, 08:38 PM
Terrero just hit #5
Wow this kid can hit em!!!
play him everyday.

chisoxfanatic
06-12-2007, 08:40 PM
You honestly don't think Erstad is better than Owens/Mackowiak/Terrero?

I honestly would like to see Mackowiak released after Erstad comes back, with Owens as the fourth outfielder. Terrero has much more of an upswing and works so much harder than Mackowiak (he actually TRIES). It can't hurt any bit in terms of experience with the way this season's cut due south these past 2 1/2 weeks.

JB98
06-12-2007, 08:43 PM
I honestly would like to see Mackowiak released after Erstad comes back, with Owens as the fourth outfielder. Terrero has much more of an upswing and works so much harder than Mackowiak (he actually TRIES). It can't hurt any bit in terms of experience with the way this season's cut due south these past 2 1/2 weeks.

I'd trade Mackowiak back to the National League.

As I've said, Terrero is a good platoon player.

A. Cavatica
06-12-2007, 08:46 PM
You honestly don't think Erstad is better than Owens/Mackowiak/Terrero?

Erstad is better than Mackowiak.
Erstad is also better than Owens and Terrero, but none of them is good enough to start for a contending team. The reason to play Owens and Terrero is because they have at least some chance of improving, unlike Erstad.

UserNameBlank
06-12-2007, 08:48 PM
You honestly don't think Erstad is better than Owens/Mackowiak/Terrero?
Offensively? Not better than Mack or the Terrero we've seen this year. He has to be better than Owens but IMO isn't as deserving of playing time as Owens considering the state the Sox are in.

Rockinsox05
06-12-2007, 08:49 PM
For the record Terrero missed another ball tonight that he was clearly there to get. It wasn't quite as bad as the drop the other night but, Erstad hauls that ball in.

Brian26
06-12-2007, 08:50 PM
Terrero just hit #5
Wow this kid can hit em!!!
play him everyday.

Garbage time.
Without looking, I'm fairly certain four of the five have been solo shots (which admittedly isn't his fault since we can't get on base to save our lives).

JB98
06-12-2007, 08:50 PM
Erstad is better than Mackowiak.
Erstad is also better than Owens and Terrero, but none of them is good enough to start for a contending team. The reason to play Owens and Terrero is because they have at least some chance of improving, unlike Erstad.

There are some pretty mediocre players who start for contending teams. To say "none of them is good enough to start for a contending team," that's hyperbole. Even the best team in the league has a couple guys starting who aren't great.

Hell, Erstad started for the 2005 Angels, and they made the ALCS.

Sargeant79
06-12-2007, 08:51 PM
I think Terrero may be an ideal 4th outfielder for next year. He can play all the outfield positions adequately and has some pop to his bat. He's also shown so far that he is capable of producing in a limited role without letting sitting and not playing every day adversely affect him. I think he'd probably be really good in that role.

Now for the matter of the starting outfield...

Brian26
06-12-2007, 08:51 PM
I honestly would like to see Mackowiak released after Erstad comes back, with Owens as the fourth outfielder.

You don't release a guy like Mackowiak. He's a valuable guy to have on your bench and could at least net you a decent minor league prospect, if not a good reliever. He's not making an insane amount of money, so there's no reason to outright release him.

Tragg
06-12-2007, 08:57 PM
Rob is a good utility player. Ozzie uses him as a semi regular (last year) and was forced to do it this year (injuries). He has value and there's no reason to give him away.

I'm for playing the young players - there's no downside that I can see - but they really need to work on the strike zone. Torrero should have been up there with 1 though on his mind in the 9th last night -getting on base and with a 2-0 count he should have and could have coaxed a walk; instead once it's 2-1 he starts hacking at balls over his head. Owens played leadoff for 2 weeks and had exactly ZERO walks. 1 walk in tonight's game. Now I'm not advocating walking for walking sake, but such an absence of walking is also indicative of swinging at bad pitches in general; and it's hard to hit swinging at pitches you can't hit. The best hitter in Sox history had also one of the best batting eyes in ML history and probably the best eye of his generation.
This team swings at everything.

UserNameBlank
06-12-2007, 09:08 PM
Rob is a good utility player. Ozzie uses him as a semi regular (last year) and was forced to do it this year (injuries). He has value and there's no reason to give him away.

I'm for playing the young players - there's no downside that I can see - but they really need to work on the strike zone. Torrero should have been up there with 1 though on his mind in the 9th last night -getting on base and with a 2-0 count he should have and could have coaxed a walk; instead once it's 2-1 he starts hacking at balls over his head. Owens played leadoff for 2 weeks and had exactly ZERO walks. 1 walk in tonight's game. Now I'm not advocating walking for walking sake, but such an absence of walking is also indicative of swinging at bad pitches in general; and it's hard to hit swinging at pitches you can't hit. The best hitter in Sox history had also one of the best batting eyes in ML history and probably the best eye of his generation.
This team swings at everything.

I forgot what happened with Terrero, but 2-0 is a hitter's count. Let him swing away and see what happens. It's not like we're winning games lately. Besides, I'd rather see controlled aggression and swinging on appropriate counts than the typical "*** is going on" approach that many of our hitters have shown. Oftentimes they'll take a first pitch strike right down the middle, swing at a terrible waste pitch to go down 0-2, take two balls, then take a strikeout right on the corner instead of protecting the plate.

MRM
06-12-2007, 09:21 PM
I honestly would like to see Mackowiak released after Erstad comes back

Brain fart, I hope?

Lillian
06-13-2007, 05:43 AM
I didn't read this entire thread, however I did read several posts which argued that Terrero was nothing more than a 4th outfielder. There was one post where someone likened him to a "glorified Timo Perez.

I've watched this kid play in Spring Training for the Diamondbacks, as well as in his limited time with the Sox. As I said before, this is a genuine 5 tool prospect. Whether or not he will ever reach his full potential is of course a big question, but it should be easy to see why Ozzie likes his upside.

He just turned 27, and still has less than 500 at bats in the Majors. Given his good minor league production, it is way to soon to consider him a bust. Remember what Ted Williams used to say; "It takes about 1,000 at bats, at the Major League level, for a player to figure it out."

This is the kind of player about whom we should be excited. His upside is terrific. You can't teach the kind of assets that a talent like this provides.
Some had questioned his power, but I think that 3 of his 5 homers this year have silenced those critics. His first homer is still the longest one at the Cell this year. That one he hit on Sunday was a mammoth shot, and the one he hit in Phillie was a bomb as well. At least that's what I understand, as I didn't see it.

His arm is very strong, and his accuracy is O.K.
He runs very well for big man.

I'd like to see him play enough this year to evaluate his worth to the 2008 roster. In any case, it seems pretty unfair, and inaccurate to call him a "glorified Timo Perez".

roadrunner
06-13-2007, 10:26 AM
I didn't read this entire thread, however I did read several posts which argued that Terrero was nothing more than a 4th outfielder. There was one post where someone likened him to a "glorified Timo Perez.

I've watched this kid play in Spring Training for the Diamondbacks, as well as in his limited time with the Sox. As I said before, this is a genuine 5 tool prospect. Whether or not he will ever reach his full potential is of course a big question, but it should be easy to see why Ozzie likes his upside.

He just turned 27, and still has less than 500 at bats in the Majors. Given his good minor league production, it is way to soon to consider him a bust. Remember what Ted Williams used to say; "It takes about 1,000 at bats, at the Major League level, for a player to figure it out."

This is the kind of player about whom we should be excited. His upside is terrific. You can't teach the kind of assets that a talent like this provides.
Some had questioned his power, but I think that 3 of his 5 homers this year have silenced those critics. His first homer is still the longest one at the Cell this year. That one he hit on Sunday was a mammoth shot, and the one he hit in Phillie was a bomb as well. At least that's what I understand, as I didn't see it.

His arm is very strong, and his accuracy is O.K.
He runs very well for big man.

I'd like to see him play enough this year to evaluate his worth to the 2008 roster. In any case, it seems pretty unfair, and inaccurate to call him a "glorified Timo Perez".

I agree with you. Other than the drops, Terrero has shown more potential than all of the other crud outfielders combined. He's shown speed, power and a strong, accurate arm. There seems to be a general misconception about this guy. I was frustrated to hear Rongey in the postgame "highlights" state that when Terrero gets a hold of one, he really crushes it. In the following sentence he went on to say that he'd like to see him do it more often. 5 HRs in 47 plate appearances isn't often enough for you Rongey (you dumbass)? That is a rate of 64 HRs per 600 ABs. I'm not saying he's ever going to come close to that but given the alternatives, give the kid a shot.

santo=dorf
06-13-2007, 05:54 PM
We've played extremely well since Erstad went down. The club is a robust 3-8 since Darin went on the DL. If you don't think the team misses him, you're crazy. Sorry, but speed, hustle and defense matter.
Paul Konerko is more of a grinder than Erstad. Prove me wrong.

I didn't realize Erstad was fully responsible for this team's current play. If we had Erstad last night he would've made up for 4 runs, check that, 5 runs (because his replacement hit a homer.) So the Sox were a third place team two games under .500. This team isn't good with Erstad regardless. Erstad sucks. Quit making unprovable, silly claims. The Sox's performance recently doesn't directly relate to Erstad's absence.

I know you can't stand Brian Anderson at all, but he has speed, hustles, and plays well defensively.

soxinem1
06-13-2007, 06:37 PM
Paul Konerko is more of a grinder than Erstad. Prove me wrong.

I didn't realize Erstad was fully responsible for this team's current play. If we had Erstad last night he would've made up for 4 runs, check that, 5 runs (because his replacement hit a homer.) So the Sox were a third place team two games under .500. This team isn't good with Erstad regardless. Erstad sucks. Quit making unprovable, silly claims. The Sox's performance recently doesn't directly relate to Erstad's absence.

I know you can't stand Brian Anderson at all, but he has speed, hustles, and plays well defensively.

I agree with you. Once BA heals, he should be brought up and put in every day.

Neither Erstad or Terrero are regular players. Terrero is not a good CF, and solo HR's in garbage times of games (other than the Tampa bay one) mean nothing. He's been in several organizations and they all agree: He's not a regular.

oeo
06-14-2007, 01:49 AM
I agree with you. Once BA heals, he should be brought up and put in every day.

Neither Erstad or Terrero are regular players. Terrero is not a good CF, and solo HR's in garbage times of games (other than the Tampa bay one) mean nothing. He's been in several organizations and they all agree: He's not a regular.

Sweeney will get a call up before Anderson does, and rightfully so. Anderson can't even hit AAA pitching, how the hell is he going to do it up here?

santo=dorf
06-14-2007, 06:10 AM
Sweeney will get a call up before Anderson does, and rightfully so. Anderson can't even hit AAA pitching, how the hell is he going to do it up here?
Why do you keep sweeping Anderson's shoulder injury under the rug? I bet if he was on the big league team playing through it you'd lump him in with Pods, Erstad, and Crede how nothing is going the Sox way this year with injuries.

UserNameBlank
06-14-2007, 11:43 AM
I agree with you. Once BA heals, he should be brought up and put in every day.

Neither Erstad or Terrero are regular players. Terrero is not a good CF, and solo HR's in garbage times of games (other than the Tampa bay one) mean nothing. He's been in several organizations and they all agree: He's not a regular.
What is wrong with you?

Yeah, take away his five home runs. Take 5 home runs away from ANYONE ON OUR TEAM who has at least five home runs and guess what? That player isn't so productive anymore.

This whole ****ing season is garbage time! So we should ignore everything that a player does this year because it is garbage time? In that case, why do the Devil Rays and Royals even field teams? Why do they even bother calling up their prospects if garbage time MLB AB's don't count for anything? This is the dumbest, most brain-dead logic possible.

Look at the huge difference between BA and Terrero:
Luis, 27, 481 career MLB AB: .237/.316/.372
BA, 25, 416 career MLB AB: .216/.279/.353

When the Sox picked up Terrero way back when I made a post that basically said Anderson and Terrero are very similar players. Brian is better in the field, Luis has better speed, but really they are very, very close. Both are high strikeout guys who don't walk much and have decent power. So far, Luis has been the better hitter of the two. Considering BA is a college player and Luis was not, Brian, if he really is so much better, should be further along than he is.

And I also love the way that people here see a mistake or two in CF and then say he's so terrible in CF. Sure, neglect some of his other plays he's made which have been very good and focus in on the crap.

Let me say this one last thing: neither of these guys are Alex Rios, Carlos Beltran, Grady Sizemore, or Vernon Wells. So don't expect that out of either of them.

eriqjaffe
06-14-2007, 12:02 PM
And I also love the way that people here see a mistake or two in CF and then say he's so terrible in CF. Sure, neglect some of his other plays he's made which have been very good and focus in on the crap.:mack:
"Yeah, what he said!"

UserNameBlank
06-14-2007, 12:07 PM
:mack:
"Yeah, what he said!"
I knew someone would do that...

Norberto7
06-14-2007, 12:48 PM
So if you play Terrero the rest of the season and he does well, what happens then? Are the Sox willing go gamble that is not a fluke and sign him to a few year deal to play the outfield? Not saying that he shouldn't be playing everday in this situation, but in any respect I don't think there are going to be any clear-cut answers with him at the end of the season, unless he is terrible from here on out.

spiffie
06-14-2007, 01:07 PM
I agree with you. Once BA heals, he should be brought up and put in every day.

Neither Erstad or Terrero are regular players. Terrero is not a good CF, and solo HR's in garbage times of games (other than the Tampa bay one) mean nothing. He's been in several organizations and they all agree: He's not a regular.
Terrero's HR's this year:

5/1 vs. Seattle, 3rd inning, tied 0-0
5/25 vs. Tampa Bay, 5th inning, losing 1-0
5/28 vs. Minnesota, 3rd inning, losing 3-0
6/10 vs. Houston, 5th inning, winning 2-0
6/12 vs. Philly, 9th inning, losing 7-2

But hey, 1 out of 5 is still something to hang your hat on.

MRM
06-14-2007, 07:57 PM
I didn't read this entire thread, however I did read several posts which argued that Terrero was nothing more than a 4th outfielder. There was one post where someone likened him to a "glorified Timo Perez.

I've watched this kid play in Spring Training for the Diamondbacks, as well as in his limited time with the Sox. As I said before, this is a genuine 5 tool prospect.

I'm not sure you can call a 27yo man a "prospect" with a straight face.

MRM
06-14-2007, 07:59 PM
why do the Devil Rays and Royals even field teams?

To sell hotdogs and Beer at inflated prices? :D:

MySoxAreClean
06-14-2007, 08:08 PM
Sox should get CHuck Norris to cover all of the outfield! All balls hit outfield will go strait to his glove no matter where he is.:gulp: