PDA

View Full Version : Should we bring back Aardesma, Macdougal and Sisco?


1917
06-11-2007, 09:03 AM
How much longer do we keep these guys down? I know they were in a major funk, but maybe the reality of the minors will kick them in gear...I mean the guys they brought up to replace them are doing, well, bad!

hose
06-11-2007, 09:08 AM
I think Mac will be back soon, not sure about AAArdsma or Sisco.

lostfan
06-11-2007, 09:09 AM
How much longer do we keep these guys down? I know they were in a major funk, but maybe the reality of the minors will kick them in gear...I mean the guys they brought up to replace them are doing, well, bad!
Macdougal is a much better pitcher than what he turned into and I'm not convinced he'll stay so bad. Aardsma reverted to the Aardsma he was with the Cubs, his control issues blew up all at once. And as for Sisco who knows. I think he just sucks. I mean if you can't make it on the Royals...

INSox56
06-11-2007, 09:11 AM
Considering Aardsma gave up three runs over 1/3 of an inning friday, I doubt he'll be coming back any time soon.

lostfan
06-11-2007, 09:14 AM
Considering Aardsma gave up three runs over 1/3 of an inning friday, I doubt he'll be coming back any time soon.
lol

If it's any consolation, Cotts has mostly been pretty worthless for the Cubs so it was about an even exchange.

EastCoastSoxFan
06-11-2007, 09:26 AM
It just goes to show how many things have to go right for a team to win the World Series and how hard it is to find reliable bullpen pitchers.
To have a lefty AND a righty setup man who were basically both lights-out for most of the season (and the post-season) seems to be turning into an unlikelier proposition every year.
I'm just glad that Cotts and Politte both had their career years at the same time...

Jurr
06-11-2007, 09:28 AM
The bullpen pitched so damn much early because of the ineptitude of this offense that this was destined to happen. They looked effective early, but having to lean on a bullpen to the extent that the Sox did always threatens to expose them. Most pitchers are in the pen because they're not quite as good as the starters. So, if they keep getting thrown out there, they eventually run into a terrible outing. Well, each of those names had that exact problem. The result that we found is that Sisco, Aardsma, and McDougal didn't have enough of a makeup to overcome adversity, and began questioning their mechanics and believing in their pitches. Every damn pitch was middle out, and nothing was thrown inside with purpose. Aardsma was doing a great job pitching in during the month of April, but lost his confidence and began throwing scared.

I hope these guys figure it out soon and can rebound from their terrible performances. They all have the stuff-it's purely a confidence issue.

Jurr
06-11-2007, 09:30 AM
It just goes to show how many things have to go right for a team to win the World Series and how hard it is to find reliable bullpen pitchers.
To have a lefty AND a righty setup man who were basically both lights-out for most of the season (and the post-season) seems to be turning into an unlikelier proposition every year.
I'm just glad that Cotts and Politte both had their career years at the same time...
They were protected during '05 by a strong starting rotation and a lineup that could actually score some runs. Oh, how times have changed.

EastCoastSoxFan
06-11-2007, 09:33 AM
They were protected during '05 by a strong starting rotation and a lineup that could actually score some runs. Oh, how times have changed.Yeah, but they were able to come into the 7th or 8th inning and hold a one-run lead.
Our bullpen this year has had trouble holding 3, 4, and 5-run leads.

Chicken Dinner
06-11-2007, 09:55 AM
I'll take anyone who can throw a strike. These walks must stop!

balke
06-11-2007, 10:02 AM
I think they probably like Dewon Day, other than last night. I could definitely see Macdougal coming back, I think Sisco needs to be groomed before a return. I think Bukvich is out of here. Prinz shouldn't be too far behind. AAARdsma at least comes with a side of hope. Time will tell. Right now it looks like there are no answers to the bullpen question.

lostfan
06-11-2007, 10:09 AM
Aardsma looked thoroughly dominant before he started to suck.

1917
06-11-2007, 10:15 AM
Aardsma looked thoroughly dominant before he started to suck.

Blowing that lead in DET in April started his downward spiral

lostfan
06-11-2007, 10:26 AM
Blowing that lead in DET in April started his downward spiral
Yeah, it's strange how the separation is so clear and you can probably pinpoint it down to a specific pitch. It's almost like that flipped a switch off in his head and he can't flip it back on.

Hitmen77
06-11-2007, 10:59 AM
The answer depends on how have MacDougal, Aardsma, and Sisco been doing at AAA. I haven't heard much about their progress at Charlotte.

I would think MacDougal is the one that has the least problems to fix and would be back the soonest.

oeo
06-11-2007, 11:43 AM
I think Mac will be back soon, not sure about AAArdsma or Sisco.

MacDougal just had mechanical problems. Aardsma and Sisco really need to work on secondary pitches (especially Sisco). I can't wait to get Pukevich out of here, though--at least MacDougal's stuff moves.

soxfanatlanta
06-11-2007, 11:43 AM
The answer depends on how have MacDougal, Aardsma, and Sisco been doing at AAA. I haven't heard much about their progress at Charlotte.

I would think MacDougal is the one that has the least problems to fix and would be back the soonest.

The struggles of Aardsma and Sisco continued down in Charlotte with limited innings. MacDougal has only pitched in two games since going there: too early to tell, IMO.

Britt Burns
06-11-2007, 11:56 AM
I think Sisco needs to be left at AAA the rest of the season no matter what...he was rushed to the majors (because of being a rule 5 pick, if I remember correctly), and has never been given the opportunity to fully develop outside the major league level. He's got stuff, but his secondary pitches and confidence are obviously lacking.

I think MacD will be back soon. Aardsma...can't figure him out. Great stuff, some track record of success...who knows. Hopefully he'll get it together soon.

JB98
06-11-2007, 11:56 AM
I think MacDougal will be back soon. The guys we brought up from Charlotte are not the answer, and I knew they wouldn't be. The Sox just needed to make those moves to send a message that this meltdown bull**** will not be tolerated. I think Day has an OK chance to stick. If we're going to contend this year, we need to go outside the organization to get another right-handed reliever. I don't think Aardsma has the mental toughness to handle late-inning situations.

lostfan
06-11-2007, 11:58 AM
MacDougal just had mechanical problems. Aardsma and Sisco really need to work on secondary pitches (especially Sisco). I can't wait to get Pukevich out of here, though--at least MacDougal's stuff moves.
It looked to me like MacDougal was overthrowing the ball and trying too hard to rely on his fireball stuff.

balke
06-11-2007, 12:10 PM
Macdougal also kinda got a bad rip in his last two games. He's a pitcher you generally can't hit hard, and its up to the D to get the outs. AAArdsma you can just hit out of the park if he's off.

kevingrt
06-11-2007, 12:15 PM
I think MacDougal is a definite bring back soon. As for Sisco I would give him a little more time until he is perfect to come back. As for AArsdma I really don't know what to think of this guy. I'd like to see him spend a while down there but who knows what is best for that guy.

Lip Man 1
06-11-2007, 12:26 PM
Unlike the other two guys MacDougal's contract may be a factor in what happens.

Lip

MRM
06-11-2007, 02:14 PM
The bullpen pitched so damn much early because of the ineptitude of this offense

This makes absolutely zero sense, and is inaccurate to boot. How much the bullpen is used has NOTHING to do with the offense. It has to do with the effectiveness of the starting pitchers. In that regard the "pitched so damn much" is simply wrong. The Sox starters have been among the leaders in innings pitched for practically the entire season. Which, in turn, means the bullpen has pitched among the LEAST amount of innings.

EastCoastSoxFan
06-11-2007, 02:30 PM
It looked to me like MacDougal was overthrowing the ball and trying too hard to rely on his fireball stuff.I think MacDougal's problem is that all of his pitches have so much movement of them that he truly does not know where they are going to end up most of the time.

Even when he tries to throw a get-me-over fastball on 3-0, if he does throw a strike it's usually a running fastball that just nips the corner somewhere.

Then again, if he is able to regain some of the command that he had earlier in his career that extreme movement will work in his favor once again...

Hendu
06-11-2007, 02:44 PM
Isn't MacD out of options now? That may be a factor b/c if they're going to re-call him, they'd better be pretty confident that he won't be dead weight again.

russ99
06-11-2007, 04:30 PM
Isn't MacD out of options now? That may be a factor b/c if they're going to re-call him, they'd better be pretty confident that he won't be dead weight again.

Options last the entire season. The Sox won't be able to option MacDougal to AAA next season.

While I think MacDougal could come back this season once his mechanics are back on track, Kenny needs to bring in an experienced set-up guy. One major leaguer to cement things in the 8th could get everyone else to settle in to their roles, and make the bullpen much better.

This current plan to try out various guys from AA and AAA in the 8th inning is a recipe for disaster.

MRM
06-11-2007, 04:52 PM
This current plan to try out various guys from AA and AAA in the 8th inning is a recipe for disaster.

Unfortunately you can only cook with the ingredients you have. It's easy to say "just go trade for a stud set-up man, already" and quite near impossible to actually do at this point in the season.

FedEx227
06-11-2007, 05:23 PM
Here's what the guys are doing in AAA:

MacDougal - 2 IP, 1 H, 1 BB, 2 Ks, 0 ER
Aardsma- 5.1 IP, 5 H, 2 BB, 6 Ks, 3 ER
Sisco- 6.1 IP, 5 H, 4 BB, 8 Ks, 3 ER

Hitmen77
06-11-2007, 09:18 PM
Today Coop was on the Sox pregame show on the radio. He said the following. (I'm going on memory from what he said 3 hrs ago, so please correct me if anything here is not accurate):

1) When asked whether MacDougal, Aardsma, and/or Sisco will be coming back soon, he said it hasn't been discussed yet.

2) He was willing to give the new call ups some more time. He said that if they come to the conclusion that these guys can't get it done, they'll just call up other people from the minors.

3) He wanted to cut Dewon Day some slack for Sunday. He said Day had been doing a good job since his call up. He felt that he fell behind in the count 2-0 on Sunday and the boos started from the crowd and Dewon just let the boo-birds get to him. He wanted Sox fans to not be so quick to get on the pitchers and not "kick the guys when they are down".

JB98
06-11-2007, 09:21 PM
Today Coop was on the Sox pregame show on the radio. He said the following. (I'm going on memory from what he said 3 hrs ago, so please correct me if anything here is not accurate):

1) When asked whether MacDougal, Aardsma, and/or Sisco will be coming back soon, he said it hasn't been discussed yet.

2) He was willing to give the new call ups some more time. He said that if they come to the conclusion that these guys can't get it done, they'll just call up other people from the minors.

3) He wanted to cut Dewon Day some slack for Sunday. He said Day had been doing a good job since his call up. He felt that he fell behind in the count 2-0 on Sunday and the boos started from the crowd and Dewon just let the boo-birds get to him. He wanted Sox fans to not be so quick to get on the pitchers and not "kick the guys when they are down".

Maybe the pitchers should be focused on the task at hand, instead of what is taking place with the fans.

Tragg
06-11-2007, 09:56 PM
I know I'm alone, but I think Sisco is a major league pitcher. AT some point, he'll figure it out. McDougal certainly is. Don't know about Ardsma.

As for Day, this is the major leagues - grow a pair.

MRM
06-11-2007, 11:16 PM
3) He wanted to cut Dewon Day some slack for Sunday. He said Day had been doing a good job since his call up. He felt that he fell behind in the count 2-0 on Sunday and the boos started from the crowd and Dewon just let the boo-birds get to him. He wanted Sox fans to not be so quick to get on the pitchers and not "kick the guys when they are down".

I'm not a fan of booing the home team under most circumstances but if you are gonna be a professional, it comes with the territory and you better be able to mentally handle it. If you can't handle boo birds in a regular season game in June how in the heck can you possibly be counted on to perform in a pennant race or post season when there is REAL pressure?

Frontman
06-11-2007, 11:19 PM
I'll take anyone who can throw a strike. These walks must stop!


I can throw a strike.


Granted, it would be about 70 miles an hour, belt high, right over the center of the plate.

For all of a second.

Granted, it would be quicker than 4 pitches to get a runner on.

oeo
06-11-2007, 11:52 PM
Maybe the pitchers should be focused on the task at hand, instead of what is taking place with the fans.

It was what, the fifth outing of his career? Cut the guy some slack. I could see if he was Sisco, MacDougal, or Aardsma, but this guy hasn't done anything wrong (at least yet). I don't think the boo's from the crowd are going to help the situation at all (probably will make it worse), so why do it?

If our answer to struggling parts of the team is to boo them, we should have been booing every guy in the lineup for a month and a half now.

russ99
06-12-2007, 07:45 AM
It was what, the fifth outing of his career? Cut the guy some slack. I could see if he was Sisco, MacDougal, or Aardsma, but this guy hasn't done anything wrong (at least yet). I don't think the boo's from the crowd are going to help the situation at all (probably will make it worse), so why do it?

If our answer to struggling parts of the team is to boo them, we should have been booing every guy in the lineup for a month and a half now.

I'll give Day some slack since he's pitched pretty well, especially from a guy who got promoted from AA.

The rest of the pen are all professionals, even Bukvich and Prinz, and if they can't find the strike zone at all in 4 pitches, they deserve to be booed. They were brought here to throw strikes, since the previous guys couldn't, and deveryone in the pen knows the deal.

2) He was willing to give the new call ups some more time. He said that if they come to the conclusion that these guys can't get it done, they'll just call up other people from the minors.If this organization has that mentality, the bullpen is doubtful to improve. You're not going to magically find a journeyman or rookie in the farm system that can be a major league set-up man, especially since the Sox have already seen what these guys can do in the spring and in the system.

duke of dorwood
06-12-2007, 07:56 AM
Having guys on the team with minor league arms in must turn it around situations is rough on the new pitchers. Bring back Aardsma & Mac-keep Prinz for long relief but the sad fact is that none of this helps the absence of offense.

Hitmen77
06-12-2007, 08:37 AM
It was what, the fifth outing of his career? Cut the guy some slack. I could see if he was Sisco, MacDougal, or Aardsma, but this guy hasn't done anything wrong (at least yet). I don't think the boo's from the crowd are going to help the situation at all (probably will make it worse), so why do it?

If our answer to struggling parts of the team is to boo them, we should have been booing every guy in the lineup for a month and a half now.

....also please note that this is what Cooper said. Dewon Day himself wasn't offering this as an excuse. If Day himself was using this as an excuse for Sunday, then I'd have a serious problem with his attitude.

I agree with Cooper on this - cut the guy some slack. I can understand the frustration, but we as fans seem so ready to trash any rookie who isn't instantly successful. Heck, people here are declaring Gavin Floyd a bust already and he hasn't even thrown a single pitch for the White Sox yet.