PDA

View Full Version : 1983 vs. 2007


Viva Medias B's
06-09-2007, 09:36 PM
Like our 2007 White Sox, the 1983 White Sox started out slow. During the first half, they looked every bit a bad team. There was talk that TonyLaRussa's days would be numbered. By mid-season, the White Sox still looked mediocre at 40-37. But all know what happened after that, don't we.

Does this White Sox team of 2007 have the capability to do what the 1983 squad did? Maybe. We do not know for sure. One thing for sure is that the 2007 AL Central is a heck of a lot tougher than the 1983 AL West was. That could the the chief thing going against us.

What do you think?

Bobby Thigpen
06-09-2007, 09:40 PM
To put is simply. No.

JB98
06-09-2007, 09:46 PM
I think that anything can happen, but I'm not holding my breath for a glorious second-half run. The good news is we have a strong starting rotation. Our starters have posted a rock solid ERA of 3.09 over the last 10 games, as shown on the Cell scoreboard today. Garland's performance today only improves that. Strong starting pitching is the foundation of any winning team. We have that. Unfortunately, our other parts are so horribly broken, and I don't know if we can fix it. Our hole grows deeper every day.

The Critic
06-09-2007, 09:47 PM
Baseball's a funny game and crazier things have happened, but I'd be REALLY surprised if this team did anything. I just don't see much to give me any optimism. I hate feeling this way so early in June.

Foulke You
06-09-2007, 10:12 PM
I think that anything can happen, but I'm not holding my breath for a glorious second-half run. The good news is we have a strong starting rotation. Our starters have posted a rock solid ERA of 3.09 over the last 10 games, as shown on the Cell scoreboard today. Garland's performance today only improves that. Strong starting pitching is the foundation of any winning team. We have that. Unfortunately, our other parts are so horribly broken, and I don't know if we can fix it. Our hole grows deeper every day.
Our strong starting rotation does give us a chance to turn it around. It is the only reason why I haven't quit on the season quite yet. When KW assembled this rotation, it was with an eye to preventing prolonged losing skids. The '07 rotation has done its job, but nobody and I mean, NOBODY could have predicted the ineptitude of the offense this year. The bullpen troubles compounded matters but the offense is squarely to blame for this. The team will have to get on a serious run in the 2nd half when they get healthy in order to turn this around.

Sox fans can take some comfort in some recent baseball history to show that it is still possible if the talent is there. Fans of the 2004 and 2005 Astros gave up on their team in the first half. Ditto the 2003 Marlins, 2006 Twins, and 2005 Indians. All these aforementioned teams were dreadful in the 1st half and turned it to another level in the 2nd half. Is it likely? No, but I'm sure those fans wouldn't have predicted greatness for their teams either.

TDog
06-09-2007, 10:35 PM
I see more parallels with the 1973 White Sox than the 1983 White Sox. In 1973, the White Sox were poised to knock off the World Series champion Oakland A's, but everything went wrong, mostly because of injuries. The two major injuries were to Dick Allen and Carlos May, the only .300 hitters from the 1972 team that had third best record in baseball. In 1973, they only won 77 games.

In 1973 and 1983, the White Sox had brash young managers in their first big-league job. Fans weren't calling for Chuck Tanner's head because they remembered how bad things were before they came. It wasn't until 1974 and 1975 that the "fire Tanner" demands became audible.

In 1983, when the faltering White Sox traded Tony Bernazard for Julio Cruz at the June 15 trading deadline, Sox fans interviewed on WGN said "they traded the wrong Tony." At that point the Sox were in fifth place, 5.5 games behind the Angels and only 4.5 games ahead of last place Seattle. They were four games below .500. People thought the team was dead. LaRussa had a new second baseman, batting him ninth, and he started batting Carlton Fisk second. Floyd Bannister started winning. Everything was going right. Before the rest of the division fell into a major funk, the Sox grabbed a three game lead at the end of July. During the next two months, they increased the lead to 20.

I don't think the AL Central is as good as many here believe. Cleveland and Detroit have serious bullpen issues. The Twins have only one reliable starter are currently short in the bullpen. And the White Sox are a distant fourth. Aside from a vocal cry for the manager to be fired and a good starting rotation, the only similarity I see between the June 2007 White Sox and the June 2007 White Sox is that fans believe the team is headed nowhere.

Frontman
06-09-2007, 11:09 PM
Could it happen? Sure, why not.

Do I have faith that it WILL happen? No.

Is anything possible? Yes.

Hence, I'll be watching tomorrow's game.

eriqjaffe
06-09-2007, 11:13 PM
I think our bullpen now is every bit as good as the bullpen we had in 1983.

And when I say that, I mean "Bret Prinz is every bit as good as a 49-year-old Juan Agosto."

DumpJerry
06-09-2007, 11:30 PM
What do you think?
Won't happen. The Sox won in a very weak division. The Royals finished in second with a 79-82 record.

The 2007 ALCD is too strong for that to happen.

Also, the Sox were victimized with a no hitter by a guy named Mike Warren of the Oakland A's on September 29th, the next to last game of the regular season.

WhiteSox5187
06-10-2007, 01:42 AM
As has been said earlier, anything can happen and crazier things have happened. But...I don't think that this is a playoff team. It has good starting pitching, so you dont need to blow the whole team up, but I dont' think that this is a good team overall. We're so banged up and a team featuring Mackowiak, Uribe, Fields, and Owens as every day starters is just not a good team. It is not a playoff team. Sadly. But what the hell, there is a lot of baseball left to be played and I'm sure at this point in the 1983 season had there been a White Sox Interactive, not many people would be saying "This team is playoff bound!" Who knows? But I'm not holding my breath with anticipation.

DickAllen72
06-10-2007, 01:53 AM
I don't think the AL Central is as good as many here believe. Cleveland and Detroit have serious bullpen issues. The Twins have only one reliable starter are currently short in the bullpen. And the White Sox are a distant fourth.
Very true.

If Thome, Konerko and Dye would step up and carry this team like they're supposed to, the Sox would have a chance.

The responsibility for the Sox' failure in 2007 falls squarely on their shoulders.

Lip Man 1
06-10-2007, 01:56 AM
In a word...no.

The 2007 bullpen is the worst in baseball, the offense has been M.I.A. since opening day.

The 1983 club had the 2007 team beaten badly in both improtant areas.

Lip

peeonwrigley
06-10-2007, 03:22 AM
I don't think the AL Central is as good as many here believe. Cleveland and Detroit have serious bullpen issues. The Twins have only one reliable starter are currently short in the bullpen. And the White Sox are a distant fourth. Aside from a vocal cry for the manager to be fired and a good starting rotation, the only similarity I see between the June 2007 White Sox and the June 2007 White Sox is that fans believe the team is headed nowhere.

For all their bullpen issues, Detroit and Cleveland are hitting and not pissing their pants at every opportunity with a tie, lead, or close game.

Their fans have just as much reason for any perceived optimism in their situations as we do.

It just does not look good right now.

StillMissOzzie
06-10-2007, 03:38 AM
Looking a lot more like 1985 (eg., winner 2 years later) than 1983

SMO
:angry:

areilly
06-10-2007, 04:54 AM
No.

LongLiveFisk
06-10-2007, 09:39 AM
Looking a lot more like 1985 (eg., winner 2 years later) than 1983

SMO
:angry:

That 1985 team could probably play circles around this team. At least they were a scrappy bunch.

nsolo
06-10-2007, 10:26 AM
Won't happen. The Sox won in a very weak division. The Royals finished in second with a 79-82 record.

The 2007 ALCD is too strong for that to happen.

Also, the Sox were victimized with a no hitter by a guy named Mike Warren of the Oakland A's on September 29th, the next to last game of the regular season.

Agreed. Too strong of a division for lightning to strike again. Yet, despite the horrible play I've been seeing, I 'm still a Sox fan. As was my family for past generations. They may pull it together or stink up the field, but I'll still root for them.

NSolo

Go White Sox, M-Go Blue!

Railsplitter
06-10-2007, 03:16 PM
To put is simply. No.

I have to agree. At least ron Kittle was hitting well early in the season, in 1983.

TomBradley72
06-10-2007, 07:31 PM
The only scenario where we make a "miracle run" would include:

Pods comes back 100% healthy and stays that way
Erstad comes back 100%
MacDougal returns to his best career form after a stint at AAA
Aardsma returns to his April form after a stint at AAA
Konerko returns to his career averages for the season/has a red hot 2nd half
Dye returns to his career averages for the season/has a red hot 2nd ha
Konerko returns to his career averages for the season/has a red hot 2nd half
Iguchi returns to his career averages for the season/has a red hot 2nd half
Uribe returns to his career averages for the season/has a red hot 2nd halfI doubt if more than 4-5 of the above actually happen.

monkeypants
06-10-2007, 08:08 PM
Is Julio Cruz available to give the team a boost this time around? Because I think we're still paying him.

veeter
06-10-2007, 08:26 PM
I'll always hold out hope because of the rotation and because of my Sox passion. But realistically, no chance. And in a way I'm looking forward to being a seller for once, and hopefully fleecing the **** out of some contender. Just don't sell any starters.

oeo
06-10-2007, 08:30 PM
To put is simply. No.

If three things happen, they definitely can:
1. The starting pitching continues what they're doing.
2. They get healthy and stay healthy.
3. They pick up a couple bullpen arms.

If we didn't have a starting staff, I would say no way. But, we have a very solid rotation, one that could lead us to the postseason if our guys can stay healthy and we get any kind of relief help. Something about today's game injected a new optimism for me into the season. Lately it hasn't seemed like the crowd has been very energized, but today was different; I don't know if that was it or it was Buehrle, but something seemed different about today than the last 2-3 weeks. I think we're going to put up a good road trip here and come back home 7.5 back of the division.

Lip Man 1
06-10-2007, 08:57 PM
Actually Julio's deal ended a few years ago.

Lip

Brian26
06-10-2007, 09:37 PM
I realize this is asking a lot, but keep in mind the Sox still have a hell of lot of games left with Cleveland and Detroit. They've only had two series with each team. They still have four more series with each team. The opportunity is at least there to make up some ground if they get hot at the right time.

TDog
06-10-2007, 09:40 PM
Actually Julio's deal ended a few years ago.

Lip

He never played in the big leagues after the White Sox released him before the 1987 season. I don't know the he opted out for early retirement, but it worked out that way.

Brian26
06-10-2007, 09:41 PM
He never played in the big leagues after the White Sox released him before the 1987 season. I don't know the he opted out for early retirement, but it worked out that way.

Not sure if he's still there, but a couple of years ago he was hooked up with the Mariners organization as a radio broadcaster.

soxfanreggie
06-12-2007, 12:54 AM
I think you're going to see some Sox players get hot. We can't have our best hitter hitting .264 or something like that for the entire season. PK will have a hot streak, and I'm sure a few others will. If most of our roster is at .220 or .230 for the entire year, I will be horribly surprised.

Our main problem right now is injuries. We are down two very important pieces...Pods and Erstad. In addition, our bullpen has to come together. We can't have guys like Day in the pen and seeing time regularly. At least 2 of the 3 of Sisco, Aardsma, and Mac need to get it together. Jenks and to some extent, Thornton, can't carry the load the whole season. You can't throw them everyday, but we've seen what happens when they don't go.

duke of dorwood
06-12-2007, 09:11 AM
A run is not likely-not only the Cruz trade in '83 but the move of Fisk to bat #2 ignited the team. We have neither element-I take the pen out of the equasion. This team needs to add OFFENSE, build momentum, and be ready to roll in 2008, just to be competitive. We are wasting good starting pitching and many of us feared Williams was throwing out 2007 from the start-that has played out. Those trades to improve need to be made now, pitchers need to have their roles defined now. Last offseason should begin now.

Brian26
06-12-2007, 09:10 PM
Last offseason should begin now.

This is really a great post, and you're correct. I think you're going to see Fields everyday now. Terrero is going to get an extended look. I wouldn't be surprised to see Sweeney or Owens everyday in the 2nd half. Mackowiak might end up being the first guy traded.

MRM
06-12-2007, 09:38 PM
I think you're going to see Fields everyday now.

Wow! Ya think? As if there is a real option here.

oldcomiskey
06-13-2007, 03:04 PM
Very true.

If Thome, Konerko and Dye would step up and carry this team like they're supposed to, the Sox would have a chance.

The responsibility for the Sox' failure in 2007 falls squarely on their shoulders.

I wouldnt go that far--the bullpen has to shoulder part of it, and the rest of the batting order too

oldcomiskey
06-13-2007, 03:06 PM
Looking a lot more like 1985 (eg., winner 2 years later) than 1983

SMO
:angry:

at least in 85 they had a winning record--this is looking more like 84 to me

soxinem1
06-13-2007, 08:01 PM
Hmmm.... 1983 vs. 2007

V. Law > Crede (for 2007)
Fletcher/Dybber > Uribe
Baines > Dye
Luzinski > Thome
Kittle > Pods, Terrero, Mack, Ozuna and the kitchen sink COMBINED
R. Law > Erstad
Fisk/Hill > AJ/Hall
Agosto > Thornton (and that is painfull to say!)
Tidrow > MacDougal
1983 Coaching staff > 2007 Coaching staff (but not by a lot)
1983 defense (after May 31) > 2007 defense (after May 31)

and most importantly:

2007 AL Central > 1983 Al West (big time!!!)

Brian26
06-13-2007, 08:35 PM
Fletcher/Dybber > Uribe


Disagree with this one big time. The rest of the comparisons are solid.

You failed to mention, though:

Jenks > Salome Barojas

JorgeFabregas
06-13-2007, 08:41 PM
Luzinski better than Thome?

soxinem1
06-13-2007, 09:13 PM
Disagree with this one big time. The rest of the comparisons are solid.

You failed to mention, though:

Jenks > Salome Barojas

A year ago I would never have said that, but this year Uribe is useless. Scooter and Dybber could at least get a bunt sdown and make decent contact.

Uribe's act of 'palms open' like everythiing is going to the concourse when it doesn't even make it to the warning track is really wearing thin.

Starting pitching as a whole was better back then, and even though the 83 Sox led the league in saves, they were also up there in CG's in both 83 and 84. Relievers were not as important as today. But I do agree that Jenks > Lamp/Barojas big time.