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View Full Version : *Official* "Not Good" 6/8/07 Postgame Thread


whitesoxfan
06-08-2007, 10:14 PM
Surprised that there isn't a thread yet. Looks like we've all come to accept the fate of this fantastic team.

Brian26
06-08-2007, 10:16 PM
Poor Chris Rongey is broadcasting from the Bullpen Sports Bar tonight. :D:

veeter
06-08-2007, 10:16 PM
Can it get any worse? How about the fact that our line-up looks like one from a split squad spring training game. Enough of that. Jenks looked great. And we may just have a little something in Dewon Day. I like our chances with Jon tomorrow.

hose
06-08-2007, 10:20 PM
Worst hitting team in MLB + terrible bullpen ain't going to get it done.

Scottiehaswheels
06-08-2007, 10:20 PM
I like our chances with Jon tomorrow.If OG can put a bat in his hands.

JB98
06-08-2007, 10:20 PM
Poor Chris Rongey is broadcasting from the Bullpen Sports Bar tonight. :D:

Hopefully, he's consumed enough alcohol to numb the pain of the out-of-control callers screaming in his ear.

BTW, does anyone know why the **** Owens left the game tonight?

palehozenychicty
06-08-2007, 10:21 PM
Man, we are just an ugly team. It's the same thing every single day. Poor fielding, decent starting pitching, poor hitting, etc. :(:

peeonwrigley
06-08-2007, 10:21 PM
That's 11 of 13

*anti-banana dancer*

Brian26
06-08-2007, 10:22 PM
Ozzie sounds defeated right now, like a Mack truck just ran him over.

Brian26
06-08-2007, 10:23 PM
Ozzie just said that he might bat Konerko leadoff tomorrow, no joke.

Tragg
06-08-2007, 10:23 PM
Shake the lineup up. Turn it upside down.
Keep Owens in the lineup, but not at leadoff.

getonbckthr
06-08-2007, 10:24 PM
We're closer to KC than 1st.

Brian26
06-08-2007, 10:25 PM
Ozzie says the team should be embarrassed because of the bad defense.

He says Owens is hurt with a bad hammie. Ozzie thinks the team has a disease.

Ozzie says he can't juggle the lineup anymore because everyone is batting .220.

He wants the fans to enjoy themselves and be proud to be Sox fans.

JB98
06-08-2007, 10:25 PM
Ozzie sounds defeated right now, like a Mack truck just ran him over.

And let's face it, he's got nowhere to turn. His third baseman is out indefinitely. His entire starting outfield is injured. He has a bullpen full of arsonists.

I don't envy Ozzie right now. He's being tested big time.

OK, I envy him a little. He's getting paid big bucks to watch this bull****. I'll be paying big bucks to watch this bull**** the next two days. :cool:

whitesoxfan
06-08-2007, 10:26 PM
Ozzie says the team should be embarrassed because of the bad defense.

He says Owens is hurt with a bad hammie. Ozzie thinks the team has a disease.

Ozzie says he can't juggle the lineup anymore because everyone is batting .220.

He wants the fans to enjoy themselves and be proud to be Sox fans.

That's pretty hard to do.

DrewSox56
06-08-2007, 10:27 PM
We're closer to KC than 1st.

Where have you been the last month?

ChiSoxIn06
06-08-2007, 10:28 PM
At least if we keep this up we can get our self a top 5 draft pick next year...does anyone know the last time we had a pick in the top 5?

peeonwrigley
06-08-2007, 10:29 PM
At least if we keep this up we can get our self a top 5 draft pick next year...does anyone know the last time we had a pick in the top 5?

And with our luck the Top 15 guys will sign with Boras next year...

Parrothead
06-08-2007, 10:30 PM
The Sox blow right now. I am embarassed :redface: to be a fan with the way they are playing.

JB98
06-08-2007, 10:30 PM
Ozzie says the team should be embarrassed because of the bad defense.

He says Owens is hurt with a bad hammie. Ozzie thinks the team has a disease.

Ozzie says he can't juggle the lineup anymore because everyone is batting .220.

He wants the fans to enjoy themselves and be proud to be Sox fans.

So, Owens is hurt.

Call up Pods? He's 4-for-11 in three games in Charlotte. The Knights would have won again tonight if Aardsma hadn't **** himself in the ninth.

getonbckthr
06-08-2007, 10:30 PM
How about this lineup:
Gonzalez-SS, Terrero-LF, AJ-C, PK-1B, Thome-DH, Iguchi-2B, Dye-RF, Fields-3B Owens CF
Can't hurt at this point.

Lip Man 1
06-08-2007, 10:32 PM
The Sox haven't had a top ten pick in the draft since Alex Fernandez in 1990.

Lip

soxwon
06-08-2007, 10:33 PM
WELCOME TO
US CELLULAR
CHICAGO'S FIRST
OPEN AIR
FUNERAL HOME!!!

JB98
06-08-2007, 10:33 PM
Pffft... Are you serious????

We're ****ed.

Yes, I'm serious.

I'm serious about calling up Pods, and I'm serious about Aardsma giving up three runs and blowing a save for Charlotte tonight.

HotelWhiteSox
06-08-2007, 10:33 PM
:anon:

Brian26
06-08-2007, 10:33 PM
Rongey thinks a deal needs to be made immediately. He thinks the organization made a mistake this winter with the bullpen.

getonbckthr
06-08-2007, 10:35 PM
Rongey thinks a deal needs to be made immediately. He thinks the organization made a mistake this winter with the bullpen.
Ok how about the offense though? We need about 3 deals to appear compettitive.

JB98
06-08-2007, 10:36 PM
Rongey thinks a deal needs to be made immediately. He thinks the organization made a mistake this winter with the bullpen.

Takes two to tango, Ranger.

peeonwrigley
06-08-2007, 10:36 PM
Yes, I'm serious.

I'm serious about calling up Pods, and I'm serious about Aardsma giving up three runs and blowing a save for Charlotte tonight.

Pretty soon the poor guy is gonna go from AAArdsma, to AArdsma, to Ardsma.

hose
06-08-2007, 10:36 PM
:anon:

I agree:(:

Scottiehaswheels
06-08-2007, 10:37 PM
Rongey thinks a deal needs to be made immediately. He thinks the organization made a mistake this winter with the bullpen.Astute observation there Ranger.... I swear to god.. Bring back Politte and Hermy... Politte wasn't any worse than this crap and Hermanson could pitch better in a full back brace with his arm in a sling...

DrewSox56
06-08-2007, 10:37 PM
How about this lineup:
Gonzalez-SS, Terrero-LF, AJ-C, PK-1B, Thome-DH, Iguchi-2B, Dye-RF, Fields-3B Owens CF
Can't hurt at this point.

Who hits?

Oh, nobody.

hose
06-08-2007, 10:39 PM
Bring back Everrett and the Alomar brothers.

infohawk
06-08-2007, 10:40 PM
This offense is just epic bad this year. We can't really blame it all on injuries, either. Konerko, Dye, Iguchi, Pierzynski (not as bad as everyone else but not as good as usual) and Uribe haven't had any announced injuries. Kenny has to do something, because this is just flat out humiliating.

peeonwrigley
06-08-2007, 10:40 PM
No one on the Sox is playing above expectations , and pretty much everyone outside of the rotation, Jenks, and Thome are below expectations. Not to mention the injuries. Even if Kenny can pull off a couple solid deals, if the remaining players don't get their **** together it won't matter.

Scottiehaswheels
06-08-2007, 10:40 PM
Bring back Everrett and the Alomar brothers.Hell I'd settle for Molina's 1 for 25 :D:

RowanDye
06-08-2007, 10:41 PM
We have to be close to hitting the bottom, right? :?:

I'd like to see Ozzie do a little less maneuvering and the Sox hitters do a little less pressing.

The team is low right now on major league ready talent, but if the guys start playing fun again there's no reason why this team can't play better. There's still enough talent on the team to play .500 ball if they could just somehow catch their breath and stop sucking.

JB98
06-08-2007, 10:42 PM
Astute observation there Ranger.... I swear to god.. Bring back Politte and Hermy... Politte wasn't any worse than this crap and Hermanson could pitch better in a full back brace with his arm in a sling...

Why not Mike Jackson?

Scottiehaswheels
06-08-2007, 10:44 PM
Honestly... Does anyone know what the lowest team BA to finish a season was in the modern era? We have to be damn close at this point.

whitesoxfan
06-08-2007, 10:44 PM
Rongey thinks a deal needs to be made immediately. He thinks the organization made a mistake this winter with the bullpen.

Oh, so now he thinks we need to make a deal. Just about a week ago, he jumped on a caller for saying we need to add someone via trade. Can't have it both ways, Ranger.

Norberto7
06-08-2007, 10:45 PM
Hawk is always saying how much the hitters are putting in their work, I wonder if that is not part of the problem. Maybe they should just take a few days off of working on their swings.

Or maybe the whole team should ditch the game tomorrow and go to a strip joint.

Scottiehaswheels
06-08-2007, 10:46 PM
Hawk is always saying how much the hitters are putting in their work, I wonder if that is not part of the problem. Maybe they should just take a few days off of working on their swings.

Or maybe the whole team should ditch the game tomorrow and go to a strip joint.I think I'd prefer to see forfeit in the box score to this crap

alohafri
06-08-2007, 10:46 PM
We're closer to KC than 1st.

We may finish below Kansas City this year.

alohafri
06-08-2007, 10:49 PM
Hawk is always saying how much the hitters are putting in their work, I wonder if that is not part of the problem. Maybe they should just take a few days off of working on their swings.

Or maybe the whole team should ditch the game tomorrow and go to a strip joint.

If they were to play hungover, it could be an improvement.

DickAllen72
06-08-2007, 10:50 PM
Bring back Everrett and the Alomar brothers.
Get rid of Harold Baines and bring in Carl Everett as a coach.

getonbckthr
06-08-2007, 10:50 PM
Would it be horrible for the whole team to go out get annihilated and come to the game hung over tommorow? At worst they play as bad as they have been, at best they don't think about anything accept the headache and the vomiting and maybe we realize we are using to much brain.

Brian26
06-08-2007, 10:50 PM
I think this is Jesse Rogers now on with Rongey, but I'm not sure.

Jesse is complaining that Jenks didn't pitch against ARod last night, but he came in tonight when the Sox were down 5-2.

getonbckthr
06-08-2007, 10:52 PM
I think this is Jesse Rogers now on with Rongey, but I'm not sure.

Jesse is complaining that Jenks didn't pitch against ARod last night, but he came in tonight when the Sox were down 5-2.
Well if he was smart he would realize Bobby hasn't pitched in a few days and thats why he was in there today. Go back to covering that hockey team that pretends to play in this town Jesse.

Droso5
06-08-2007, 10:56 PM
Ever so ugly. Uribe is damn near worthless at the plate...men on base and two weak pop-ups on two piss poor swings. Also, did anyone catch Konerko on his first (I think) strike-out and that awful pitch(I think it was in the 4th-5th inning) He looked absolutely lost up there and after his K he looked totally defeated, crawling away from home plate. It was embarrassing, they even cut away to him in the dug out with this glazed over look in his eyes.

I truly believe that this team is toast and there needs to be some real hard thinking in the front office about where to go in the future. Old players, injured players and sub-par AAAers....Kenny Williams needs to find a direction for this team to go and begin to move there methodically and with great care. Another winner can be built, but I will leave that to people, i think, much smarter than me.

SoxSpeed22
06-08-2007, 11:01 PM
That's it I'm On Strike!
http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/1417665/2/istockphoto_1417665_on_strike_sign.jpg
The reason for unfair labor practice is that we get less than we put in as fans.

Viva Medias B's
06-08-2007, 11:21 PM
Why not Mike Jackson?

Hell, let's get Jose Paniagua and Ken Hill too!

I just got back from the ballgame tonight. You know, I was thinking that we should wait and see until the All Star Break before we do anything. I wanted to give this team a chance until then to get its rear in gear. Right now, I'm not so sure. This team did not show me any heart tonight. They did not look the least bit interested in trying to win this game.

Tonight, of course, was a fireworks night. Usually on a fireworks night, even if we're losing, a huge portion of the crowd stays to watch the fireworks at the end of the game. Tonight, by the eighth inning, fans were leaving in droves. During the ninth, there were so many empty seats it wasn't funny. And when Juan Uribe struck out to end the game, even more fans left in droves. I would imagine that very few stayed for the fireworks. To quote Hyman Roth on the rooftop of the hotel in Havana, "What does that tell you?"

I am not being a dark cloud here. I think this team is still capable of getting back in the right direction. However, if the heart is not there amongst them and they don't seem to want to win, I think it is time for the front office to begin preparing for 2008. It is the front office's fiduciary responsibility to consider this team's long term interests in terms of winning ballgames and, ultimately, the World Series. If this 2007 squad is not apt to do that, then it should be broken up to build the 2008/2009 championship team.

eriqjaffe
06-08-2007, 11:27 PM
WELCOME TO
US CELLULAR
HOME OF THE
CHARLOTTE
KNIGHTSFixed that for you.

DrewSox56
06-08-2007, 11:30 PM
It is the front office's fiduciary responsibility to consider this team's long term interests in terms of winning ballgames and, ultimately, the World Series. If this 2007 squad is not apt to do that, then it should be broken up to build the 2008/2009 championship team.


http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f322/fugnutz/vincentwindup.jpg
"You will know it is time to turn the page, when you here the chimes ring like this - Let's begin NOW".

slowlearner
06-08-2007, 11:38 PM
Or maybe the whole team should ditch the game tomorrow and go to a strip joint.

I'm afraid they'd probably find a way to strike out there too.

CHISOXFAN13
06-08-2007, 11:45 PM
Well if he was smart he would realize Bobby hasn't pitched in a few days and thats why he was in there today. Go back to covering that hockey team that pretends to play in this town Jesse.

He has a point. If Jenks needed work today, he certainly could have pitched yesterday in a closer game in a more crucial situation.

I don't normally agree with Rogers, but I do in this case.

oeo
06-08-2007, 11:49 PM
I can't believe we lost another leadoff hitter. This is unbelievable...4 leadoff guys down to injury.

Will anything bounce our way this year?

DrewSox56
06-08-2007, 11:50 PM
He has a point. If Jenks needed work today, he certainly could have pitched yesterday in a closer game in a more crucial situation.

I don't normally agree with Rogers, but I do in this case.

Wouldn't have mattered.

MrX
06-08-2007, 11:53 PM
Thank god I'm heading out of town tomorrow so I get a week away from watching this ****.

oeo
06-08-2007, 11:53 PM
Wouldn't have mattered.

Exactly, those who think we could have scored 2 runs off of Rivera in the 9th are kidding themselves. Even if we got one, it would end up being a battle of the bullpens and we all know who would win.

gobears1987
06-08-2007, 11:55 PM
Astute observation there Ranger.... I swear to god.. Bring back Politte and Hermy... Politte wasn't any worse than this crap and Hermanson could pitch better in a full back brace with his arm in a sling...
Are Koch, Foulke, and Marte available? I'd take any of those three in our pen right now.

I'm serious and I think I need to throw-up because that sounds so bad that our pen is so pathetic that they would be better bwith the addition of those guys.

Scottiehaswheels
06-08-2007, 11:59 PM
Are Koch, Foulke, and Marte available? I'd take any of those three in our pen right now.

I'm serious and I think I need to throw-up because that sounds so bad that our pen is so pathetic that they would be better bwith the addition of those guys.Marte is currently sporting a 1.33 ERA for the Pirates...

oeo
06-09-2007, 12:01 AM
Marte is currently sporting a 1.33 ERA for the Pirates...

Marte had bigger problems with this team other than being a complete piece of **** on the mound. There's no way Kenny would bring him back, he was a total douche.

I'd try to make a deal with the Rangers (if the Sox are really serious about fixing this bullpen). They're having a terrible season, and have a few good bullpen arms. I'd take a Willie Eyre or Joaquin Benoit; definitely Akinori Otsuka.

roadrunner
06-09-2007, 12:11 AM
Marte is currently sporting a 1.33 ERA for the Pirates...

shingo 2.74 in japan last year

DrewSox56
06-09-2007, 12:18 AM
Marte had bigger problems with this team other than being a complete piece of **** on the mound. There's no way Kenny would bring him back, he was a total douche.

I'd try to make a deal with the Rangers (if the Sox are really serious about fixing this bullpen). They're having a terrible season, and have a few good bullpen arms. I'd take a Willie Eyre or Joaquin Benoit; definitely Akinori Otsuka.


The Rangers have a very good bullpen, stupid management, .... oh but a starter that we ****ed them with.

I agree we'd be better off with any of them (BP guys you mentioned), but..


Kenny already burned his pass with them. They know for as bad as they are, they are like.. what #4 in all of baseball in ERA???? Wow - I just looked that up... Forget dealing with Texas...

thomas35forever
06-09-2007, 12:21 AM
There was a caller on the postgame show asking why Ozzie didn't use Bobby in the last game against the Yankees but used him for mop-up duty tonight. The caller had a point there. All in all, it was an ugly night to be at the ballpark.

tebman
06-09-2007, 12:24 AM
I was at the game tonight. I stuck around for the fireworks so I could feel like I got something for my money.

This is not a good team. A Tim McCarver moment, I know, but I had to type that out as a form of therapy. The first step in solving a problem is recognizing it and facing it.

I agree with the other posters who said that if injuries and bad karma has taken this team into a ditch, then KW has to start building for 2008 and 2009. I don't see these guys coming back this year. Hell, I'd be happy if they make it to fourth place at the rate they're going now.

I have the standard Sox-fan condition: I'm annoyed and cranky. Maybe I'll go check out the Paris Hilton court-date-du jour thread. :rolleyes:

Nellie_Fox
06-09-2007, 12:54 AM
He wants the fans to enjoy themselves and be proud to be Sox fans.Peace be with you Oz.

The Sox blow right now. I am embarrassed :redface: to be a fan with the way they are playing.Be angry, be depressed, but never be embarrassed.

Rongey thinks a deal needs to be made immediately. He thinks the organization made a mistake this winter with the bullpen.Being able to tell what should have been done after the fact is such a rare commodity. :rolleyes:

Fixed that for you."Fixed your post" posts are weak.

MeteorsSox4367
06-09-2007, 01:11 AM
I was all excited to be going to the game Friday night. A sales rep gave my brother four sweet seats in 121, Row 27. Nice cool night, it's Friday, the Sox are playing.

And then I have to watch this bull****. Danks was solid, but Terrero drops the fly ball on him, the offense gets shut down by Ralph Sampson or Kelvin Sampson or whomever the hell he was. It just flat sucked. I don't blame Danks for firing his glove and cap off the dugout wall when he was pulled.

As we're walking down the ramp going home, my sister-in-law was giddy because of the fireworks. I, on the other hand, was not. There was a fan with a Sweeney jersey in front of us, so my brother and I started talking to each other about bringing back Sweeney.

Luis Terrero? Andy Gonzalez? Gonzalez goes in there and my brother says to me, "Who the (fudge) is Andy Gonzalez and where did we get him from?" If things are going to be this bad, bring up Sweeney and let him play one of the corners in the outfield.

I don't want to be a dark cloud because I love the Sox more than any team in sports. But we CANNOT win with Rob Mackowiak and Terrero starting. No flippin' way.

My rant is over. I need a chocolate-chip cookie and some milk to help me sleep.

Blueprint1
06-09-2007, 01:25 AM
We are bad. I had to sit through that crap. I am not sure I will use my tickets sunday. I don't know if I can sit through that crap again.

Grzegorz
06-09-2007, 05:02 AM
He wants the fans to enjoy themselves and be proud to be Sox fans.

I will... Better days are ahead. I do not see this team just falling off the baseball map. This year is tough, but there is hope for the future.

Rongey thinks a deal needs to be made immediately. He thinks the organization made a mistake this winter with the bullpen.

Any deal made at this time better return talent ready to perform with the parent club. Unfortunately, I do not see the Chicago White Sox holding the cards in any deal. All potential trading partners will look to the starting staff. At this time I want a shot at retaining Buerhle.

I cannot see paying a huge price for a reliever and then believing a reliever is all this team needs. This team is weak in the pen, offensively, running the bases (slow), and defensively.

If the team falls out of the race and after they get healthy run out Anderson and Sweeney. There will be no pressure so this would be the best opportunity for them to prove themselves.

Tragg
06-09-2007, 07:42 AM
I will... Better days are ahead. I do not see this team just falling off the baseball map. This year is tough, but there is hope for the future.



Any deal made at this time better return talent ready to perform with the parent club. Unfortunately, I do not see the Chicago White Sox holding the cards in any deal. All potential trading partners will look to the starting staff. At this time I want a shot at retaining Buerhle.

I cannot see paying a huge price for a reliever and then believing a reliever is all this team needs. This team is weak in the pen, offensively, running the bases (slow), and defensively.

If the team falls out of the race and after they get healthy run out Anderson and Sweeney. There will be no pressure so this would be the best opportunity for them to prove themselves.
There are so many injuries and the bullpen seems to have so many holes, that there's nothing Williams can really do that will fix this year. Just make trades to address weaknesses and shore up the team as one would normally do (perhaps wait a month to see if we're really out of it). Nevertheless, this organization has a lot of good baseball players and is reasonably strong at the tougest position at which to be strong - starting pitching. Some clever moves could fix this team for the future.

Viva Medias B's
06-09-2007, 07:52 AM
I was at the game tonight. I stuck around for the fireworks so I could feel like I got something for my money.

There weren't many of you. I have never seen so many people leave a fireworks game before the fireworks show.

itsnotrequired
06-09-2007, 09:22 AM
There weren't many of you. I have never seen so many people leave a fireworks game before the fireworks show.

I watched the fireworks from the parking lot.

Sig update time...

PaleHoseGeorge
06-09-2007, 09:33 AM
There are so many injuries and the bullpen seems to have so many holes, that there's nothing Williams can really do that will fix this year. Just make trades to address weaknesses and shore up the team as one would normally do (perhaps wait a month to see if we're really out of it). Nevertheless, this organization has a lot of good baseball players and is reasonably strong at the tougest position at which to be strong - starting pitching. Some clever moves could fix this team for the future.


Thank you for posting something reasonable. It can be hard to keep your head about you when everyone around you is losing theirs.

The Sox have counted on several ballplayers -- including several holdovers from the '05 team -- to get the job done in 2007. They are failing. There is no perfuming this pig.

The injuries and bullpen blow-ups are well-documented here. But the complete meltdown in the center of our line-up (is Konerko going for his all-time world record for "May slump"?) isn't talked about nearly enough... most of us would rather fire Greg Walker... as if that's the magic bullet.

I'm guessing if one of our power hitters didn't believe in dinosaurs, he would be fair game to rake over the coals day after day after day... Some guys just get a pass.

spiffie
06-09-2007, 10:01 AM
Thank you for posting something reasonable. It can be hard to keep your head about you when everyone around you is losing theirs.

The Sox have counted on several ballplayers -- including several holdovers from the '05 team -- to get the job done in 2007. They are failing. There is no perfuming this pig.

The injuries and bullpen blow-ups are well-documented here. But the complete meltdown in the center of our line-up (is Konerko going for his all-time world record for "May slump"?) isn't talked about nearly enough... most of us would rather fire Greg Walker... as if that's the magic bullet.

I'm guessing if one of our power hitters didn't believe in dinosaurs, he would be fair game to rake over the coals day after day after day... Some guys just get a pass.
I don't think it is that no one wants to discuss the problem with the power hitters so much as that it is a problem that nothing can really address. What are you going to do when your $12 million a year captain is barely hitting his weight. You can't demote him. You can't really trade him as we have no real options to take his place. You're pretty much stuck with him. Same with Dye. Same with Thome (though not as brutal as the others). Crede we had an option, flawed as he is in Fields, and took it.

There's a justifiable sense that something is very wrong. And that some of that is in the team's ability to hit. One of the few things that can be reasonably changed is the hitting coach. Obviously there is no guarantee of greater success if that were to be done. But honestly, can you envision a scenario in which firing Walker would make the team worse? At this point it seems like keeping Walker brings no positive benefit of any sort. A new hitting coach, even if there is only a 1/20 chance that he might get one hitter doing better, seems like a reasonable chance to take at this point.

I suspect the discussion about the middle of the lineup, and what to do with them (and a LOT of the members of this team) will be had in great detail starting about 20 minutes after our last regular season game this year. It might be had at the trade deadline, though I wonder how much will actually happen no matter what the team's predicament. It seems to me more likely any sort of major renovation to this team will be an offseason process.

downstairs
06-09-2007, 10:35 AM
I watched the fireworks from the parking lot.

Ahhhhh, yes... take me back to the mid-80's White Sox... fireworks night, get blown out... the game is over by the 5th... just leave and watch the fireworks from the parking lot.

Ugh.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-09-2007, 11:22 AM
....
There's a justifiable sense that something is very wrong. And that some of that is in the team's ability to hit. One of the few things that can be reasonably changed is the hitting coach. Obviously there is no guarantee of greater success if that were to be done. But honestly, can you envision a scenario in which firing Walker would make the team worse? At this point it seems like keeping Walker brings no positive benefit of any sort. A new hitting coach, even if there is only a 1/20 chance that he might get one hitter doing better, seems like a reasonable chance to take at this point.....

You seriously think Paul Konerko can't hit because Greg Walker told him to?

You seriously think firing Greg Walker will get us a hitting coach that will teach Paul Konerko how to hit again?

What the **** do you think this is? Little League?

:o:

If there is any hitter (or for that matter, pitcher) on this team that can't figure out how to play effectively without somebody teaching them... or consulting them... or cajoling them... so that they can earn the $10 million per year they get paid... THEN you've identified the problem. And it sure isn't the ****ing coach causing the problem.

:o::o:

spiffie
06-09-2007, 11:37 AM
You seriously think Paul Konerko can't hit because Greg Walker told him to?

You seriously think firing Greg Walker will get us a hitting coach that will teach Paul Konerko how to hit again?

What the **** do you think this is? Little League?

:o:

If there is any hitter (or for that matter, pitcher) on this team that can't figure out how to play effectively without somebody teaching them... or consulting them... or cajoling them... so that they can earn the $10 million per year they get paid... THEN you've identified the problem. And it sure isn't the ****ing coach causing the problem.

:o::o:
Couldn't Jose Contreras have been plugged into the above statement just as easily, with the idea being that what good is a pitching coach going to do for a guy who is an experience international veteran like him? But yet, when he came to the Sox he improved greatly due (supposedly) to the work with Don Cooper.

Why do Tiger Woods and Phil Mickelson have coaches, when they are the two best golfers in the world (sorry Vijay Singh)? Why do Roger Federer or Justine Henin have coaches? The job of the coach is to see the things that the player is too immersed in the action to see for themselves, because no matter how good you are at your chosen sport there are always going to be things you miss simply due to your being the one involved in the action. Is Paul Konerko not hitting because Greg Walker said it would be a good idea. Of course not, that is ****ing insane. But I know that right now there is something wrong with a lot of hitters on this team. Whatever it is, either Greg Walker doesn't have any ideas on how to help the issue, or he does and the players are not listening to him. If the first one is the case, then it is time to bring in someone who might have some ideas. If the second one is the case, then that falls on Ozzie to do something about that, he is the one in charge of this team.

Firing Greg Walker is not a panacea. It is very possible that nothing will improve. I am well aware of that. But right now that seems to be one of the few things that can be done realistically with the team that would have any possibility of creating any sort of positive change.

And really, if the whole responsibility falls on the player to get themselves out of it, why not fire Walker and just leave the job vacant. Save a few bucks and maybe use the savings to give all the fans a free beer for having to watch this awful team play the way they have lately :gulp:

balke
06-09-2007, 11:41 AM
Well, I've dispelled hope with these injuries, so I can get back to being a fan and quit whining. I'd like to see Sweeney or Anderson up with Owens down. I'm ready to concede the division and wild card hunt til they get healthy, so let's let these guys come up relaxed and perhaps surprise some folks. Make a move for some speed at the deadline, and hopefully resign Dye or Buehrle in the offseason, regardless of whether or not they get traded.

JB98
06-09-2007, 11:57 AM
Getting rid of Walker isn't necessarily the cure for the disease, but I don't see how it could hurt. For me, it isn't about "We suck; heads must roll." It's more about bringing a fresh set of eyes and a different voice in to try and solve a problem. If it doesn't work, then we know it's 100 percent on the players, and major changes need to be made over the offseason.

Frater Perdurabo
06-09-2007, 12:03 PM
You seriously think Paul Konerko can't hit because Greg Walker told him to?

You seriously think firing Greg Walker will get us a hitting coach that will teach Paul Konerko how to hit again?

What the **** do you think this is? Little League?

:o:

If there is any hitter (or for that matter, pitcher) on this team that can't figure out how to play effectively without somebody teaching them... or consulting them... or cajoling them... so that they can earn the $10 million per year they get paid... THEN you've identified the problem. And it sure isn't the ****ing coach causing the problem.

:o::o:

Finally someone else is honestly assessing - and rightfully blaming - Konerko.

I think Walker is a crappy hitting coach who should be canned, but I KNOW Konerko is a streaky, one-dimensional, slow power hitter.

George, since you brought him up, I continue the Everett comparison, We've hinted at it before, but I'll just say that if Everett and Konerko swapped pigmentation, many fans and mediots would love Everett and would ridicule Konerko. There's no other explanation - none - for the free pass Konerko gets among so many even when his performance completey sucks. And he's sucked this year. Just like 2003. Just like April and May of 2005.

When he's slumping, PK is a huge dead weight. Trading him would clear the deck, get good players in return, and give KW salary space to re-sign Buehrle and pursue Ichiro.

JB98
06-09-2007, 12:03 PM
You seriously think Paul Konerko can't hit because Greg Walker told him to?

You seriously think firing Greg Walker will get us a hitting coach that will teach Paul Konerko how to hit again?

What the **** do you think this is? Little League?

:o:

If there is any hitter (or for that matter, pitcher) on this team that can't figure out how to play effectively without somebody teaching them... or consulting them... or cajoling them... so that they can earn the $10 million per year they get paid... THEN you've identified the problem. And it sure isn't the ****ing coach causing the problem.

:o::o:

Konerko is hitting .318 over the past week and .270 over the past month. Not good enough for what we're paying him, but consider the situation. We have bench players and minor leaguers hitting behind him. Pitchers are not giving in to Thome, Dye and Konerko. They know the rest of the order is completely incapable of doing any damage. Dye and Konerko are guilty of pressing. They are swinging at bad pitches in RBI situations and getting themselves out. They don't have faith in the guys hitting behind them, and it's somewhat understandable. I actually think Dye is performing worse than Konerko right now. But it isn't any one player. This is a complete team breakdown.

JB98
06-09-2007, 12:08 PM
Finally someone else is honestly assessing - and rightfully blaming - Konerko.

I think Walker is a crappy hitting coach who should be canned, but I KNOW Konerko is a streaky, one-dimensional, slow power hitter.

George, since you brought him up, I continue the Everett comparison, We've hinted at it before, but I'll just say that if Everett and Konerko swapped pigmentation, many fans and mediots would love Everett and would ridicule Konerko. There's no other explanation - none - for the free pass Konerko gets among so many even when his performance completey sucks. And he's sucked this year. Just like 2003. Just like April and May of 2005.

When he's slumping, PK is a huge dead weight. Trading him would clear the deck, get good players in return, and give KW salary space to re-sign Buehrle and pursue Ichiro.

Sorry, Frater. Your racial crap is wrong, at least in my case. Konerko is one of my favorites, but I also enjoyed having Everett on the Sox. Carl played hard for us every day and had a lot of big hits the first half of 2005, while Konerko was slumping. The reverse was true the second half of the championship season.

Frater Perdurabo
06-09-2007, 12:16 PM
Sorry, Frater. Your racial crap is wrong, at least in my case.

I'm not impugning all PK fans. But for many, sadly, race is a consideration. I've even met a few.

balke
06-09-2007, 12:16 PM
Everett was hated because of his D, not his hitting. Most people didn't want him on the team because they didn't want to see a slow CFer...

I have and do hate Konerko's bat and slumps. I've asked many times for him to be the first to go, cause this team has had so much power without him, and he's valuable in a trade. If he was in CF, I would go nuts. As it is, he's a great defensive 1Bman, and he hits better than Everett. And he believes in dinosaurs, which is a plus.

Tragg
06-09-2007, 12:20 PM
When he's slumping, PK is a huge dead weight. Trading him would clear the deck, get good players in return, and give KW salary space to re-sign Buehrle and pursue Ichiro.

I don't buy the racial stuff - no one's beating on Dye either (or was when he was really slumping); and Podsednik has gotten more than his share of grief over the last 2 seasons for what he's done - he's delivered far closer to what we need out of that position than many others have.
What I question is whether there's really a market for Konerko and his 12 Mill. Why do you think the Angels would go for that?

balke
06-09-2007, 12:25 PM
I think a majority of Sox fans would rather have kept Frank than gotten Thome as well, production aside. That was also part of Everett's fight, filling in big shoes.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-09-2007, 12:45 PM
I think Konerko is his own worst critic. He gets down on himself and makes bad situations even worse. It's hardly surprising the negative approach (i.e. pressing) spreads to the other hitters in the line up. This happens EVERY year. This one is just worse than usual.

How Greg Walker -- or any hitting coach -- is supposed to solve this "Konerko's Head" problem is beyond me. Von Joshua couldn't fix it. Gary Ward couldn't fix it. Count me completely unconvinced firing Greg Walker is the magic bullet.

It's the ballplayer, not the coach. And he is only one of many... but nobody criticizes him, of course. That's the difference.

russ99
06-09-2007, 01:00 PM
I just got back from the ballgame tonight. You know, I was thinking that we should wait and see until the All Star Break before we do anything. I wanted to give this team a chance until then to get its rear in gear. Right now, I'm not so sure. This team did not show me any heart tonight. They did not look the least bit interested in trying to win this game.

Tonight, of course, was a fireworks night. Usually on a fireworks night, even if we're losing, a huge portion of the crowd stays to watch the fireworks at the end of the game. Tonight, by the eighth inning, fans were leaving in droves. During the ninth, there were so many empty seats it wasn't funny. And when Juan Uribe struck out to end the game, even more fans left in droves. I would imagine that very few stayed for the fireworks. To quote Hyman Roth on the rooftop of the hotel in Havana, "What does that tell you?"

I am not being a dark cloud here. I think this team is still capable of getting back in the right direction. However, if the heart is not there amongst them and they don't seem to want to win, I think it is time for the front office to begin preparing for 2008. It is the front office's fiduciary responsibility to consider this team's long term interests in terms of winning ballgames and, ultimately, the World Series. If this 2007 squad is not apt to do that, then it should be broken up to build the 2008/2009 championship team.

I didn't even know there was a fireworks night last night! Don't those games start at 6:05? If the Sox changed that, they sure didn't tell anyone.

I did leave early, even though I usually don't, but to sit through another agonizing inning and then get jammed in with all the CTA riders was a bit too much to ask.

I agree with your points, but I think the team also needs to do something. Either KW needs to blow up the team and bring in some talented young players or get a few pieces to compete this year.

What Kenny shouldn't do is stand pat, since us paying faithful deserve to see an interesting competitive team for all our hard-earned cash blown on over-inflated ticket prices (not to mention parking and concessions), instead of this current team with no fight or effort (except for A.J.)

oeo
06-09-2007, 01:02 PM
I think a majority of Sox fans would rather have kept Frank than gotten Thome as well, production aside. That was also part of Everett's fight, filling in big shoes.

Well then the majority of Sox fans didn't see a glaring hole that we had: lack of left-handed power.

GoSox2K3
06-09-2007, 01:16 PM
You seriously think Paul Konerko can't hit because Greg Walker told him to?

You seriously think firing Greg Walker will get us a hitting coach that will teach Paul Konerko how to hit again?

What the **** do you think this is? Little League?

:o:

If there is any hitter (or for that matter, pitcher) on this team that can't figure out how to play effectively without somebody teaching them... or consulting them... or cajoling them... so that they can earn the $10 million per year they get paid... THEN you've identified the problem. And it sure isn't the ****ing coach causing the problem.

:o::o:

I think Konerko is his own worst critic. He gets down on himself and makes bad situations even worse. It's hardly surprising the negative approach (i.e. pressing) spreads to the other hitters in the line up. This happens EVERY year. This one is just worse than usual.

How Greg Walker -- or any hitting coach -- is supposed to solve this "Konerko's Head" problem is beyond me. Von Joshua couldn't fix it. Gary Ward couldn't fix it. Count me completely unconvinced firing Greg Walker is the magic bullet.

It's the ballplayer, not the coach. And he is only one of many... but nobody criticizes him, of course. That's the difference.

I agree with what you are saying in the 2nd post about Konerko. However, if we follow the logic of the first post above - why even have a hitting coach? I didn't realize that making $10 million/year means that a hitter no longer needs the guidance/consultation/leadership of a hitting coach. Perhaps the Sox should just abolish the position or have a coach that only works with rookies.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-09-2007, 01:44 PM
....Perhaps the Sox should just abolish the position or have a coach that only works with rookies.

If eliminating the coaches as the official scapegoats for the mentally-challenged, the fans who seriously believe these PROFESSIONAL athletes themselves aren't the REAL CULPRITS for their lousy play, then I would be 100 percent in favor of just that.

Without these bozos to call in, how would the dopes running sportsblab radio fill up the newly-empty hours of airtime? Probably just dial-up the bigoted remarks and double-down on the number of "gentlemens' club" ads.

I'll give them credit. They know their audience.

:o: