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View Full Version : *Official* "Will Rongey go Howard Beale tonight?" 6/7/07 Postgame Thread


Viva Medias B's
06-07-2007, 10:33 PM
Yet another low point. Let the fun begin!

BLRMKRdave
06-07-2007, 10:33 PM
Can I apply for a bullpen job?

stl_sox_fan
06-07-2007, 10:33 PM
So was all the cheering at the end Yankees fans happy about a win, or Sox fans happy it was over?

Patrick134
06-07-2007, 10:34 PM
When it was still a ballgame, Fields not getting that bunt down was monumental.

whitesoxfan
06-07-2007, 10:35 PM
As I said in the game thread, let the fire sale begin. I think AJ throwing down his bat after striking out was the clinching point of this season. Just frustration everywhere and I don't see any hope of this thing turning around.

How many days until 2008?

Chisox353014
06-07-2007, 10:35 PM
I'd like to think otherwise, but I'm afraid the '07 Sox arehttp://www.toaster.org/cards/toast.png

Tragg
06-07-2007, 10:35 PM
What was that?

I know the bullpen is hopeless, but those 3 runs in the 8th innning, appeared, from the boxscore, to be scored primarily on BS and our mistakes, not on any Yankee prowess. Walks, wild pitches, infield singles and one legitimate hit. We have NO chance if we add sloppy play to our present issues of bad bullpen and injuries.

CLR01
06-07-2007, 10:36 PM
Well, I think that was the bullpen hitting rock bottom. The question is will they rebound or just hangout there for a while?

WhiteSox5187
06-07-2007, 10:36 PM
When it was still a ballgame, Fields not getting that bunt down was monumental.
That and not being able to hit a 3-2 fastball right over the heart of the plate. I feel like this team is an alcoholic, we have to let it hit rock bottom before we can think of helping it. The question is, where IS rock bottom?

WhiteSox5187
06-07-2007, 10:37 PM
What was that?

I know the bullpen is hopeless, but those 3 runs in the 8th innning, appeared, from the boxscore, to be scored primarily on BS and our mistakes, not on any Yankee prowess. Walks, wild pitches, infield singles and one legitimate hit. We have NO chance if we add sloppy play to our present issues of bad bullpen and injuries.
I don't think we have much of a chance anyways:(:

oeo
06-07-2007, 10:37 PM
Well, I think that was the bullpen hitting rock bottom. The question is will they rebound or just hangout there for a while?

They haven't been hanging out there for a couple of weeks now?

:whiner:

Frater Perdurabo
06-07-2007, 10:38 PM
Fire the bullpen.

Other than AJ, this team has no heart.

:chunks

PeteWard
06-07-2007, 10:38 PM
That and not being able to hit a 3-2 fastball right over the heart of the plate. I feel like this team is an alcoholic, we have to let it hit rock bottom before we can think of helping it. The question is, where IS rock bottom?

Below Kansas City, which I am starting to think is a possibility.

I am utterly stunned at what has happened to these guys. :(:

hi im skot
06-07-2007, 10:38 PM
I really wish I didn't have tickets for all three games this weekend...

Not really sure what to say about this team that hasn't been said. Congratulations on the most disappointing, underachieving team I think I've seen.

CLR01
06-07-2007, 10:38 PM
They haven't been hanging out there for a couple of weeks now?

Yeah but I am hoping 9 runs in an inning and two-thirds is the absolute bottom. :(:

Hendu
06-07-2007, 10:39 PM
Well, that stunk. Just a bad game all around, except from Jose. He deserved better than that.

Patrick134
06-07-2007, 10:39 PM
From watching this sox season, you'd think we were 15 games under right now, as it is we're just 4 under. Plenty of time to jump back into it.

koch44
06-07-2007, 10:39 PM
http://www.corecharacter.com/uploads/uecker_bob-thumb.jpg



Humiliator, lined to left. Base hit. Eliminator, lined to right. Another base hit. There's some real puss lined to center.

Navarro's Talent
06-07-2007, 10:39 PM
Yeah, that's just not good. I'm still pretty speechless about this whole season. As soon as you think things couldn't possibly get worse, the bullpen wants to prove you wrong.

Brian26
06-07-2007, 10:39 PM
Well, I think that was the bullpen hitting rock bottom. The question is will they rebound or just hangout there for a while?

Bukvich and Prinz just don't belong on a major league roster at this point. I haven't seen enough of Dewon Day to comment on him. We're at an incredible handicap at this point with this bullpen.

WhiteSox5187
06-07-2007, 10:40 PM
From watching this sox season, you'd think we were 15 games under right now, as it is we're just 4 under. Plenty of time to jump back into it.
IF we keep playing like this, we will be 15 under by August...

HotelWhiteSox
06-07-2007, 10:40 PM
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_435222.jpg
Hey look guys, my first strikeout



:dye:

So glamorous

:walnuts

Smells divine

:uribe:

Looks beautiful

:dye:

I would do it the same, only more…

:dye: :walnuts :uribe:

GLAMOROUS!

rinse, dry, and repeat with the bullpen guys

hi im skot
06-07-2007, 10:40 PM
From watching this sox season, you'd think we were 15 games under right now, as it is we're just 4 under. Plenty of time to jump back into it.

I like positivity as much as anyone, but after reading your comments in the game thread, I'm not sure you're watching the same team that the rest of us are.

balke
06-07-2007, 10:42 PM
Is it even worth talking about how bad they are now? Its not like a slump, or a low point of the season. This is a horrible team. Chalk it up to "chemistry" or whatever you want, this is a lot of decent players who are sucking together and it looks to stay that way, besides the starting pitching.

Patrick134
06-07-2007, 10:42 PM
I like positivity as much as anyone, but after reading your comments in the game thread, I'm not sure you're watching the same team that the rest of us are.


I follow baseball history. Almost every season, a club chugs along at around .500 to the all star break, then heats up post break and makes the playoffs. Will this be the year the sox do that ? I dunno, but it's far from impossible.

Frater Perdurabo
06-07-2007, 10:42 PM
I used to be a Thornton fan, but he's caught the same disease MacDougal had. I think the medical term is **** brain.

billyvsox
06-07-2007, 10:42 PM
If Kenny wants to make a statement, here is what I think he should do.

Out) Thornton-Bukwich-Prinz-Masset
In) Gio - Floyd - Broadway - Haeger (lets these guys start out in the bullpen to get their feet wet / If they are our top prospects lets see).

Out) Cintron In) Anyone but Cintron

Trade Dye now - he is not motivated and were not gonna resign him anyway.
Either lock up Buehrle now, or trade him too.
Decide what to do with Crede (surgury-rehab + resign him), then decide where to train Fields 3b or Lf.
I would also look to move Thome to a contender.

Fire Greg Walker to make another statement and bring in someone from OUTSIDE the organization to provide a fresh set of eyes to this disaster.

Otherwise, this disinterested team is going nowhere.

I always believed last year we should have kept the whole team together from 2005 to make another run. If not, you need to make wholesale changes, the chemistry and magic has long left the building. Hopefully we will be back in 2008.

soxinthecity
06-07-2007, 10:42 PM
I think DJ said it best. Maybe not in these exact words,
"It's one of those years no matter what they do it's the wrong decision."

I just don't see us coming out of it anytime soon.

aryzner
06-07-2007, 10:43 PM
The worst part of it has been how I looked at the team on paper at the beginning of the season and I was like "Damn, we look like big playoff contenders."

Honestly guys I didn't even watch the game tonight. I was watching the USA vs Guatemala Gold Cup game (soccer) which had a much more pleasant result - a win for the good old USA.

I'm glad I didn't catch the Sox tonight.

peeonwrigley
06-07-2007, 10:43 PM
That and not being able to hit a 3-2 fastball right over the heart of the plate. I feel like this team is an alcoholic, we have to let it hit rock bottom before we can think of helping it. The question is, where IS rock bottom?

I don't know man, I thought we hit it after the Aardsma walk off walk:(:

WhiteSox1983
06-07-2007, 10:43 PM
errrrrrr. This bites. Hitting is dismal at best. and the bullpen is beyond repair. Its contagious. Ozzie would be better off making the starters pitch complete games.

CLR01
06-07-2007, 10:43 PM
IF we keep playing like this, we will be 15 under by August...

Or July. :whistle:

oeo
06-07-2007, 10:43 PM
Is it even worth talking about how bad they are now? Its not like a slump, or a low point of the season. This is a horrible team. Chalk it up to "chemistry" or whatever you want, this is a lot of decent players who are sucking together and it looks to stay that way, besides the starting pitching.

They're not decent players, they're just playing like ****. I'm not saying it's going to turn around, but all these guys are way below their career norms.

aryzner
06-07-2007, 10:44 PM
Or July. :whistle:

I see your July and raise you a June. :whistle:

Chrisaway
06-07-2007, 10:44 PM
http://sportsmed.starwave.com/media/pg2/2002/0328/photo/randyquaid_i.jpgBRING OUT THE POOPER SCOOPER!!!!!!

JB98
06-07-2007, 10:45 PM
When Contreras left the game in the eighth, the score was 1-1.

We lost 10-3.

We are at least three arms short in the bullpen. Even if the offense wakes up, we've got a major weakness that might not be fixable midseason.

DrCrawdad
06-07-2007, 10:45 PM
:angry:

Great game there you Chicago Knights!

Hat's off too to our bullpen, ARSONISTS INC.

:angry:

WhiteSox5187
06-07-2007, 10:45 PM
I follow baseball history. Almost every season, a club chugs along at around .500 to the all star break, then heats up post break and makes the playoffs. Will this be the year the sox do that ? I dunno, but it's far from impossible.
I'd kill to have this team chugging around .500 by the All Star Break...but right now they're more or less wheezing along at a whopping .181 pace.

Patrick134
06-07-2007, 10:45 PM
They're not decent players, they're just playing like ****. I'm not saying it's going to turn around, but all these guys are way below their career norms.


Right if guys like PK, AJ and Dye are gojng to even get to their career averages ( not to their best season numbers), they'd all have to hit well over .300 the rest of the way.

BeviBall!
06-07-2007, 10:46 PM
http://school.discovery.com/clipart/images/stinks4c.gif

California Sox
06-07-2007, 10:46 PM
IF we keep playing like this, we will be 15 under by August...

August? More like 11 days from now. The '95 team has been the biggest disappointment ever for me, but this group... let's say they've entered the running.

Weird thing about how it seems like the Sox are often good in the early parts of decades ('83, '93, 2000, 2005) and start their rebuilding in the latter parts.

Probably time to start rebuilding now too. :whiner:

balke
06-07-2007, 10:47 PM
From watching this sox season, you'd think we were 15 games under right now, as it is we're just 4 under. Plenty of time to jump back into it.

We'd have to win 10 straight right now, while Cleveland lost 8 straight in order to surpass their record.

Bucky F. Dent
06-07-2007, 10:47 PM
Cintron's defense was abysmal. My three year old daughter can put more on a throw. Is Junior Spivey still in the organization?

Frater Perdurabo
06-07-2007, 10:47 PM
They're not decent players, they're just playing like ****. I'm not saying it's going to turn around, but all these guys are way below their career norms.

And last year all of them were above their career norms. I guess this is year it balances out.

oeo
06-07-2007, 10:47 PM
I think DJ said it best. Maybe not in these exact words,
"It's one of those years no matter what they do it's the wrong decision."

I just don't see us coming out of it anytime soon.

I don't think they'll make the playoffs...I just hope they don't become the laughingstock of the league this year. They look like a typical Cubs team right now. :(:

Patrick134
06-07-2007, 10:48 PM
August? More like 11 days from now. The '95 team has been the biggest disappointment ever for me, but this group... let's say they've entered the running.

Weird thing about how it seems like the Sox are often good in the early parts of decades ('83, '93, 2000, 2005) and start their rebuilding in the latter parts.

Probably time to start rebuilding now too. :whiner:


This team has also been decimated by injuries ( Pods and Thome when they were the only ones hitting, Erstad, Crede, Pablo ). Let's not forget that the sox haven't Fielded their chosen lineup since early april.

WhiteSox5187
06-07-2007, 10:48 PM
August? More like 11 days from now. The '95 team has been the biggest disappointment ever for me, but this group... let's say they've entered the running.

Weird thing about how it seems like the Sox are often good in the early parts of decades ('83, '93, 2000, 2005) and start their rebuilding in the latter parts.

Probably time to start rebuilding now too. :whiner:
I was thinking that too...thinking that like, '85 was the last good year in the 1980s for the Sox and then they entered the Hawk era and never really recovered. Perhaps these Sox are doing the same thing...:(:

SoxSpeed22
06-07-2007, 10:49 PM
The only thing to say about this is...
http://www.popkornjunkie.com/images/sherman.jpg
"It Stinks!"

oeo
06-07-2007, 10:50 PM
And last year all of them were above their career norms. I guess this is year it balances out.

If by all of them you mean Dye and Konerko (in terms of average, anyway), then yes.

WhiteSox5187
06-07-2007, 10:50 PM
This team has also been decimated by injuries ( Pods and Thome when they were the only ones hitting, Erstad, Crede, Pablo ). Let's not forget that the sox haven't Fielded thei chosen lineup since early april.
So? We're the only team ever in the history of major league baseball to get injured? We're injured right now and that's the reality another reality is that this team without the regulars and starting Mackowiak, Cintron, Terrero, etc. in the every day line up is NOT that good.

Patrick134
06-07-2007, 10:51 PM
So? We're the only team ever in the history of major league baseball to get injured? We're injured right now and that's the reality another reality is that this team without the regulars and starting Mackowiak, Cintron, Terrero, etc. in the every day line up is NOT that good.


You say "So?" and then proceed to mention guys that are playing because of the injuries i mentioned.

balke
06-07-2007, 10:51 PM
They're not decent players, they're just playing like ****. I'm not saying it's going to turn around, but all these guys are way below their career norms.

Owens, Fields, Terrero, Iguchi, Uribe, Erstad, Mackowiak, Cintron = avg. or below

Pierzynski, Dye, Konerko, Thome = above avg., old, slow, slumping, solo hrs.

Bobby Jenks , Boone Logan, Thornton = good enough to be in the majors

Rest of bullpen = SUCKS

Everyone else - DL

Mighty4
06-07-2007, 10:52 PM
This team has also been decimated by injuries ( Pods and Thome when they were the only ones hitting, Erstad, Crede, Pablo ). Let's not forget that the sox haven't Fielded their chosen lineup since early april.

I agree, injuries take their toll, but really, the Sox haven't used their chosen lineup 20 times since last July.

TFLEM33
06-07-2007, 10:52 PM
We suck. It is as simple as that. I am really glad I didn't watch the game tonight. We are absolutely terrible. Fire someone, trade someone, do something... I'm tired of seeing these same lethargic idiots trot out on the field everyday.

WhiteSox5187
06-07-2007, 10:52 PM
You say "So?" and then proceed to mention guys that are playing because of the injuries i mentioned.
The point is that good teams win inspite of injuries. We're not winning. When you get right down to it, we're not that good.

But really this team only needs a new LF, CF, SS and bullpen. So it's fixable by the trading deadline.

Patrick134
06-07-2007, 10:53 PM
We suck. It is as simple as that. I am really glad I didn't watch the game tonight. We are absolutely terrible. Fire someone, trade someone, do something... I'm tired of seeing these same lethargic idiots trot out on the field everyday.

Then stop watching. You'll be back when they heat up anyway.

whitesoxfan
06-07-2007, 10:53 PM
You say "So?" and then proceed to mention guys that are playing because of the injuries i mentioned.

Good teams play around injuries. Pods and Thome can't be the entire offense. Even when they were in the lineup, we were right around .500. Crede has been **** this year and Erstad was starting to slump a little bit before he got hurt in Toronto.

This team is a .500 team at best.

Brian26
06-07-2007, 10:53 PM
Cintron's defense was abysmal. My three year old daughter can put more on a throw. Is Junior Spivey still in the organization?

Cintron's arm is horribly weak, but I was more disturbed by him letting that ball eat him up early in the game.

whitesoxfan
06-07-2007, 10:54 PM
Then stop watching. You'll be back when they heat up anyway.

I don't know how you can be so optimistic about this team. We all saw the 04 team crash before our eyes after the Twins series. I think we'll see much of the same from this team after losing 3 of 4 to an awful Yankees team.

WhiteSox5187
06-07-2007, 10:56 PM
Then stop watching. You'll be back when they heat up anyway...in 2008
Fixed it.

Patrick134
06-07-2007, 10:56 PM
I don't know how you can be so optimistic about this team. We all saw the 04 team crash before our eyes after the Twins series. I think we'll see much of the same from this team after losing 3 of 4 to an awful Yankees team.


The offense is in a horrendous slump for over 2 months, and with a horrible bullpen ( at times) they're only 4 games under .500 They could easily be 20 games under. They'll heat up, and soon. Bookmark this post for future enjoyment.

oeo
06-07-2007, 10:56 PM
Owens, Fields, Terrero, Iguchi, Uribe, Erstad, Pierzynski, Mackowiak, Cintron = avg. or below

Dye, Konerko, Thome = above avg., old, slow, slumping, solo hrs.

Bobby Jenks , Boone Logan, Thornton = good enough to be in the majors

Rest of bullpen = SUCKS

Everyone else - DL

Owens and Fields are TBD as far as I'm concerned. Cintron has been able to at least hit the ball over the course of his career. Iguchi and Pierzynski are both solid offensively. What's with all the hate of Iguchi lately? He's quietly put up two solid seasons for us.

Brian26
06-07-2007, 10:56 PM
We suck. It is as simple as that. I am really glad I didn't watch the game tonight. We are absolutely terrible. Fire someone, trade someone, do something... I'm tired of seeing these same lethargic idiots trot out on the field everyday.

And I'm glad you could skip the game but still find time to show up here to offer your insightful postgame analysis.

peeonwrigley
06-07-2007, 10:57 PM
Cintron's arm is horribly weak, but I was more disturbed by him letting that ball eat him up early in the game.

Did Cintron's D get a lot worse, or is it just that the rest of the team playing like crap means his ineptitude is no longer hidden? Because last season, I was happy to see his name in the lineup, but this year he's a liability on offense and defense.

BainesHOF
06-07-2007, 10:57 PM
I said at the end of the game this team looks like it's going to be 20 games below .500 by the end of the season.

It's only a matter of time before Dye is traded. Maybe Thome too. Iguchi needs to be launched before next season. Crede may have played his last game for us. There's no reason to keep Erstad, either, as he's not our future. When we're not bashing the ball, we can't afford to keep Uribe in the lineup.

As for pitching, it's time to bring up a lot of our best prospects and see what they can do. Contreras is not our future and I wouldn't be surprised to see him traded before the end of the year.

At least A.J. cares and can still perform.

I'm not blaming most of our troubles on Ozzie, but it would be nice if he acted like a leader instead of a bystander who wants to leave.

Brian26
06-07-2007, 10:58 PM
Then stop watching. You'll be back when they heat up anyway.

Yep, this is the kind of guy that's jamming up the phone lines with his family in September trying to get playoff tickets.

CLR01
06-07-2007, 10:58 PM
The offense is in a horrendous slump for over 2 months, and with a horrible bullpen ( at times) they're only 4 games under .500 They could easily be 20 games under. They'll heat up, and soon. Bookmark this post for future enjoyment.

I'll add it to the pile of posts from last year and the last 2 months.

WhiteSox5187
06-07-2007, 10:58 PM
The offense is in a horrendous slump for over 2 months, and with a horrible bullpen ( at times) they're only 4 games under .500 They could easily be 20 games under. They'll heat up, and soon. Bookmark this post for future enjoyment.
I'll tell ya what, if you're right and this team makes the playoffs...I'm not so sure what I'll do...but you'll be the only one out of us who looks at all smart. Sadly, I don't think that's going to happen.

lakeviewsoxfan
06-07-2007, 10:58 PM
The offense is in a horrendous slump for over 2 months, and with a horrible bullpen ( at times) they're only 4 games under .500 They could easily be 20 games under. They'll heat up, and soon. Bookmark this post for future enjoyment.

You seriously need to speak with a professional.

Patrick134
06-07-2007, 10:59 PM
I said at the end of the game this team looks like it's going to be 20 games below .500 by the end of the season.

It's only a matter of time before Dye is traded. Maybe Thome too. Iguchi needs to be launched before next season. Crede may have played his last game for us. There's no reason to keep Erstad, either, as he's not our future. When we're not bashing the ball, we can't afford to keep Uribe in the lineup.

As for pitching, it's time to bring up a lot of our best prospects and see what they can do. Contreras is not our future and I wouldn't be surprised to see him traded before the end of the year.

At least A.J. cares and can still perform.

I'm not blaming most of our troubles on Ozzie, but it would be nice if he acted like a leader instead of a bystander who wants to leave.


Why in the world should Gooch be launched ? He's never been na all star but he's solid.

Blueprint1
06-07-2007, 10:59 PM
I said at the end of the game this team looks like it's going to be 20 games below .500 by the end of the season.

It's only a matter of time before Dye is traded. Maybe Thome too. Iguchi needs to be launched before next season. Crede may have played his last game for us. There's no reason to keep Erstad, either, as he's not our future. When we're not bashing the ball, we can't afford to keep Uribe in the lineup.

As for pitching, it's time to bring up a lot of our best prospects and see what they can do. Contreras is not our future and I wouldn't be surprised to see him traded before the end of the year.

At least A.J. cares and can still perform.

I'm not blaming most of our troubles on Ozzie, but it would be nice if he acted like a leader instead of a bystander who wants to leave.

You know we do not have to get rid of everyone.

WhiteSox5187
06-07-2007, 10:59 PM
Did Cintron's D get a lot worse, or is it just that the rest of the team playing like crap means his ineptitude is no longer hidden? Because last season, I was happy to see his name in the lineup, but this year he's a liability on offense and defense.
He DID have that off season surgery...I think that might still be affecting his D out there.

TFLEM33
06-07-2007, 10:59 PM
Then stop watching. You'll be back when they heat up anyway.

I've watched as many .500 seasons as the next Sox fan, so I'm used to the mediocrity, but seriously, when is this crap gonna end? When we had average teams over the past several years, it was easier to accept the failures. Now, we have an above-average team on paper, yet we continue to lose night-in and night-out. I will continue to watch unlike a lot of people, but honestly, I don't think we're going to heat up. This is a .500 club at best.

whitesoxfan
06-07-2007, 11:00 PM
The offense is in a horrendous slump for over 2 months, and with a horrible bullpen ( at times) they're only 4 games under .500 They could easily be 20 games under. They'll heat up, and soon. Bookmark this post for future enjoyment.

I will and I hope to God that you are right. I just don't see it happening, but I admire you for still being optimistic about this season.

Patrick134
06-07-2007, 11:00 PM
I've watched as many .500 seasons as the next Sox fan, so I'm used to the mediocrity, but seriously, when is this crap gonna end? When we had average teams over the past several years, it was easier to accept the failures. Now, we have an above-average team on paper, yet we continue to lose night-in and night-out. I will continue to watch unlike a lot of people, but honestly, I don't think we're going to heat up. This is a .500 club at best.


The sox, while underperforming, were fine 2 weeks ago. 2 bad weeks don't define a season.

oeo
06-07-2007, 11:01 PM
Why in the world should Gooch be launched ? He's never been na all star but he's solid.

People don't like him suddenly, and it's still unknown. Apparently he sucks and is overrated. :?: Yet there are guys like Juan Uribe still trotting around, half-assing defense when they feel like it, and no one says a word.

What people forget to look at, is the number of good second baseman in this league. Iguchi isn't replaceable right now. I'm not so sure we could find a replacement next year.

SoxSpeed22
06-07-2007, 11:01 PM
He DID have that off season surgery...I think that might still be affecting his D out there.I think it was Singleton who pointed that out, but at least we play a pretty crappy Astros team next.

whitesoxfan
06-07-2007, 11:02 PM
People don't like him suddenly, and it's still unknown. Apparently he sucks and is overrated. :?:

What people forget to look at, is the number of good second baseman in this league. Iguchi isn't replaceable right now.

Yeah, I'd keep Iguchi. He's not overrated because he's not even rated. And his production at 2B has been much better than what you would get out of an average 2B. Who are you going to replace him with? Andy Gonzalez? Get real.

roadrunner
06-07-2007, 11:02 PM
This team has also been decimated by injuries ( Pods and Thome when they were the only ones hitting, Erstad, Crede, Pablo ). Let's not forget that the sox haven't Fielded their chosen lineup since early april.

pablo's broken leg is the reason dye and konerko are hitting below 240? T

Other teams ahead of us have had injuries: Detroit - bullpen, Minnesota -Maur AND Liriano (remember him?). The rotation has been healthy so I don't think you can blame injuries.

I really feel that Ozzie's mismanagement of this game began with the Fields at bat. It looked like he put the bunt on, took it off, then put it back on again. Regardless of whether you think the bunt was a good idea, I think playing games with a rookie up there was not a good idea. Send him up there to do a job and let him get it done - no need to get cute.

Pinchrunning for Konerko with two outs in the eighth was questionable both offensively and defensively. I usually think Ozzie doesn't pinchrun enough. (Gonzalez hitting behind Thome?)

Bringing in Bukvich to face ARod was a joke. You absolutely have to bring in Jenks and give the offense a chance in the bottom half. (the gamethread will verify this as a first guess)

JB98
06-07-2007, 11:02 PM
I think it was Singleton who pointed that out, but at least we play a pretty crappy Astros team next.

And we miss Oswalt. No excuses. We have to kick their asses.

CLR01
06-07-2007, 11:02 PM
The sox, while underperforming, were fine 2 weeks ago. 2 bad weeks don't define a season.

Nor does a week of good games. They have been mediocre to bad for a lot more than 2 weeks.

WhiteSox5187
06-07-2007, 11:02 PM
People don't like him suddenly, and it's still unknown. Apparently he sucks and is overrated. :?:

What people forget to look at, is the number of good second baseman in this league. Iguchi isn't replaceable right now.
I agree that we don't have anyone to replace Iguchi, and I don't think he's a problem at all...I think the only reason to trade him would be he's old and a FA next year. Plus, we still might be able to get a fair amount for him now.

Hitmen77
06-07-2007, 11:02 PM
Bukvich and Prinz are just typical for the Sox. Guys who have great numbers in AAA, but can't get anyone out once they are called up. Are other teams' call ups this consistently bad?

Actually, I don't know if I have seen enough of Prinz to say that yet. But Bukvich looks like more of the same that we had with Aardsma and MacDougal. Bringing in Bukvich to face A-Rod with the bases loaded? Doesn't sound like a contending team to me.

itsnotrequired
06-07-2007, 11:03 PM
Hooray, we suck.

Sig update time...

Lip Man 1
06-07-2007, 11:03 PM
Patrick:

In the immortal words of Ralph Kramden..."Let me have what you're drinkin'...I want to get loaded too!"

Lip

oeo
06-07-2007, 11:04 PM
Bukvich and Prinz are just typical for the Sox. Guys who have great numbers in AAA, but can't get anyone out once they are called up. Are other teams' call ups this consistently bad?

Actually, I don't know if I have seen enough of Prinz to say that yet. But Bukvich looks like more of the same that we had with Aardsma and MacDougal.

All Bukvich has is a straight fastball. Prinz gave up a ducksnort and was pulled tonight.

CLR01
06-07-2007, 11:04 PM
People don't like him suddenly, and it's still unknown. Apparently he sucks and is overrated. :?: Yet there are guys like Juan Uribe still trotting around, half-assing defense when they feel like it, and no one says a word.

What people forget to look at, is the number of good second baseman in this league. Iguchi isn't replaceable right now.

Count me on the keep Gooch and get rid of Uribe bandwagon. Been there for some time too. Have my own seat with a name plate and everything. :cool:

BainesHOF
06-07-2007, 11:04 PM
Why in the world should Gooch be launched ? He's never been na all star but he's solid.

Uh, because the only thing he does well anymore is hang in there and turn the double play. He's the definition of dead weight.

Brian26
06-07-2007, 11:04 PM
You know we do not have to get rid of everyone.

Our minor league system is exposed enough the way it is. Anderson, Owens, Sweeney and Fields so far look completely overmatched on the major league level. I can't imagine having all four of those guys in the lineup in the same game.

StillMissOzzie
06-07-2007, 11:06 PM
As I said in the game thread, let the fire sale begin. I think AJ throwing down his bat after striking out was the clinching point of this season. Just frustration everywhere and I don't see any hope of this thing turning around.

How many days until 2008?

And I can't believe he was run from the game for that bat slam. He must have had some kind words for the ump regarding calls made in the top of the inning.

Bukvich and Prinz just don't belong on a major league roster at this point. I haven't seen enough of Dewon Day to comment on him. We're at an incredible handicap at this point with this bullpen.
Agreed

If Kenny wants to make a statement, here is what I think he should do.

Out) Thornton-Bukwich-Prinz-Masset
In) Gio - Floyd - Broadway - Haeger (lets these guys start out in the bullpen to get their feet wet / If they are our top prospects lets see).

Out) Cintron In) Anyone but Cintron

Trade Dye now - he is not motivated and were not gonna resign him anyway.
Either lock up Buehrle now, or trade him too.
Decide what to do with Crede (surgury-rehab + resign him), then decide where to train Fields 3b or Lf.
I would also look to move Thome to a contender.

Fire Greg Walker to make another statement and bring in someone from OUTSIDE the organization to provide a fresh set of eyes to this disaster.

Otherwise, this disinterested team is going nowhere.
...

Thornton is the only one of that ugly foursome I'd want, at least for now, and he's trying my patience as well.
Agree w/r/t Dye. As I posted earlier, it appears he's aged 10 years in the last two. I also agree that he's probably played himself out of any long term interest from the Sox anymore.
Agree w/r/t Buehrle. The Sox should make their last, best, and final offer...IMHO, 4yrs/$65M would be fair and equitable. If he says no, wants to test the FA waters, then ship him off to a contender by the trade deadline. Much as I'd like to keep him, it's time to **** or get off the pot with MB.
Sounds like Crede is already comitted to the back surgery. Maybe he should consider getting it done sooner rather than later, so we'll know what we're gonna get of of JC for the 2008 campaign.
I disagree with dumping Thomee, though. As long as the Phils are paying part of the freight to keep JT at DH market value, the Sox might as well hang onto him for another year. What else, keep Dye as a DH instead? No thanks.

As for firing Greg Walker, I don't think that he's REALLY the problem, but nosedives like this often call for a sacrifice to be made, so it wouldn't surprise me.

SMO
:angry:

oeo
06-07-2007, 11:07 PM
Uh, because the only thing he does well anymore is hang in there and turn the double play. He's the definition of dead weight.

He made an error today, so he sucks? Again, Iguchi has quietly given us two solid seasons, and is currently quietly giving us the best offensive production in the lineup. Everyone is always right there to notice the guy's miscues, but they totally ignore everything he does great for us.

Who's your plan to replace him? Look around the league, second base is not a position where there's an excess of talent.

Brian26
06-07-2007, 11:08 PM
Yet there are guys like Juan Uribe still trotting around, half-assing defense when they feel like it, and no one says a word.

Did you even watch the game tonight or last night? Iguchi let a ball go through the wickets tonight. Rule #1 on defense dictates that you get your fanny down and keep that ball in front of you. Last night, he can't turn a double play, so he makes a mental mistake of going to first and not getting the lead runner at second right in front of him. Meanwhile, Uribe continues to shine with his gun at shortstop. I'll take Uribe's D over Iguchi's any day.

WhiteSox5187
06-07-2007, 11:09 PM
And I can't believe he was run from the game for that bat slam. He must have had some kind words for the ump regarding calls made in the top of the inning.


Agreed


Thornton is the only one of that ugly foursome I'd want, at least for now, and he's trying my patience as well.
Agree w/r/t Dye. As I posted earlier, it appears he's aged 10 years in the last two. I also agree that he's probably played himself out of any long term interest from the Sox anymore.
Agree w/r/t Buehrle. The Sox should make their last, best, and final offer...IMHO, 4yrs/$65M would be fair and equitable. If he says no, wants to test the FA waters, then ship him off to a contender by the trade deadline. Much as I'd like to keep him, it's time to **** or get off the pot with MB.
Sounds like Crede is already comitted to the back surgery. Maybe he should consider getting it done sooner rather than later, so we'll know what we're gonna get of of JC for the 2008 campaign.
I disagree with dumping Thomee, though. As long as the Phils are paying part of the freight to keep JT at DH market value, the Sox might as well hang onto him for another year. What else, keep Dye as a DH instead? No thanks.

As for firing Greg Walker, I don't think that he's REALLY the problem, but nosedives like this often call for a sacrifice to be made, so it wouldn't surprise me.

SMO
:angry:
I've stated before that I don't think firing Walker will do anything but I think some sort of sacrifice is necessary to appease the gods.

CLR01
06-07-2007, 11:09 PM
Meanwhile, Uribe continues to shine with his gun at shortstop. I'll take Uribe's D or Iguchi's any day.

You mean like that rocket he threw to first in the ninth?

Hitmen77
06-07-2007, 11:10 PM
I think it was Singleton who pointed that out, but at least we play a pretty crappy Astros team next.

That's what people were saying when the Yankees came into town. Until (and if) this team bottoms out, don't expect an easier time against Houston.

Hard to believe that it was less than a month ago that the Sox took 2 out of 3 from the Yankees and we were worrying about the Sox only racking up series wins and not being able to sweep. Was that really less than a month ago? Geez, that was May 17! Right now, that point in time feels like an entirely different season and an entirely different team to me.

roadrunner
06-07-2007, 11:10 PM
Anyone else beginning to notice that Ozzie keeps finding himself on the wrong side of pitching matchups late in games with the bases loaded?Morneau, Derek Lee and now ARod.

Brian26
06-07-2007, 11:10 PM
Prinz gave up a ducksnort and was pulled tonight.

Prinz was hit hard last night. He's not fooling anyone.

oeo
06-07-2007, 11:10 PM
Did you even watch the game tonight or last night? Iguchi let a ball go through the wickets tonight. Rule #1 on defense dictates that you get your fanny down and keep that ball in front of you. Last night, he can't turn a double play, so he makes a mental mistake of going to first and not getting the lead runner at second right in front of him. Meanwhile, Uribe continues to shine with his gun at shortstop. I'll take Uribe's D or Iguchi's any day.

Yes I did watch it tonight; I did not see the game last night. Did you miss Uribe's throw in the 9th? Uribe plays great defense when he feels like it. And since the middle of last year, those games have been few and far between. Not only that, but his offensive production comes in only 1 week spurts.

BainesHOF
06-07-2007, 11:10 PM
You know we do not have to get rid of everyone.

True, but when your chance of making the playoffs is basically over, you start looking toward building the team for next year and beyond. Elders near the end of the line like Dye, Erstad, Thome and Contreras can bring a lot in trade from a team who has a chance to win this year. And it's time to use the rest of the year to see which of our prospects can actually play in the big leagues rather than going into next year not knowing what they can do and guessing wrong.

kitekrazy
06-07-2007, 11:11 PM
That game was too predictable. You knew when Contreras came out, the bullpen would give them the lead. I knew when A-Rod came up it was going to be a slam. It just seems like everyone takes a shot at wetting their pants in clutch opportunities.

I'm sure a lot of weaker teams are looking forward to playing the Sox.

Patrick134
06-07-2007, 11:12 PM
True, but when your chance of making the playoffs is basically over, you start looking toward building the team for next year and beyond. Elders near the end of the line like Dye, Erstad, Thome and Contreras can bring a lot in trade from a team who has a chance to win this year. And it's time to use the rest of the year to see which of our prospects can actually play in the big leagues rather than going into next year not knowing what they can do and guessing wrong.


The sox played horribly for a couple of weeks, are at rock bottom, yet still only 6.5 out of the wild card. The playoff push is far from over.

WhiteSox5187
06-07-2007, 11:12 PM
True, but when your chance of making the playoffs is basically over, you start looking toward building the team for next year and beyond. Elders near the end of the line like Dye, Erstad, Thome and Contreras can bring a lot in trade from a team who has a chance to win this year. And it's time to use the rest of the year to see which of our prospects can actually play in the big leagues rather than going into next year not knowing what they can do and guessing wrong.
I don't think anyone is going to be diving at the bit to take Erstad...and I don't think I would trade Thome seeing as how he appears to be the only guy who can hit in our lineup.

PeoriaSoxFan
06-07-2007, 11:13 PM
Bukvich and Prinz just don't belong on a major league roster at this point. I haven't seen enough of Dewon Day to comment on him. We're at an incredible handicap at this point with this bullpen.

The problem is that Mac Dougal and Aardsma have shown that they don't belong either. For that matter, I don't think Thornton is any better. He simply has sucked as of late. At the start of the season, the rumour was that Philly wanted him for Rowand and I thought - no way! Now, I would drive him to the airport. And, where is Dr. Coop in all of this??? Walker rightly gets blame, but I am starting to wonder what Dr. Don is doing with his time as of late. Seriously, this bullpen, over the last 5 weeks, is the worst I can remember ever seeing.

Vernam
06-07-2007, 11:14 PM
Your 2007 White Sox: Grinding to a Halt.

This may go down as the worst team ever with good starting pitching. Most teams with five starters this good are at least respectable. Respectability is nowhere in sight.

Vernam

Brian26
06-07-2007, 11:14 PM
You mean like that rocket he threw to first in the ninth?

I had Gameday on at that point since the game was 10-3. I hope that error didn't cost the Sox the game. :rolleyes:

PeoriaSoxFan
06-07-2007, 11:15 PM
Anyone else beginning to notice that Ozzie keeps finding himself on the wrong side of pitching matchups late in games with the bases loaded?Morneau, Derek Lee and now ARod.

That is true, but what is Ozzie supposed to do? The whole bullpen, absent Jenks, just plain sucks. I have never seen a manager manage yet without having a bullpen. They way they are pitching, we might as well go with 5 starters, a closer, and 19 position players.

BainesHOF
06-07-2007, 11:15 PM
He made an error today, so he sucks? Again, Iguchi has quietly given us two solid seasons, and is currently quietly giving us the best offensive production in the lineup. Everyone is always right there to notice the guy's miscues, but they totally ignore everything he does great for us.

Who's your plan to replace him? Look around the league, second base is not a position where there's an excess of talent.

Iguchi is not hitting for average or power, he's not fast and has limited range.

Iguchi was very good in 2005 and pretty good in 2006. This year he's bad and one of the many problems on the team.

JB98
06-07-2007, 11:15 PM
I don't think anyone is going to be diving at the bit to take Erstad...and I don't think I would trade Thome seeing as how he appears to be the only guy who can hit in our lineup.

Absolutely. Jim is the only one hitting anywhere near his capabilities.

He even had a double to the opposite field tonight. All the people who want him to bunt, take note.

Brian26
06-07-2007, 11:16 PM
Not only that, but his offensive production comes in only 1 week spurts.

I'm talking about his defense. You can live with Uribe as your 8th or 9th hitter. His arm saves more runs than he will ever be given credit for.

oeo
06-07-2007, 11:16 PM
I had Gameday on at that point since the game was 10-3. I hope that error didn't cost the Sox the game. :rolleyes:

That's not the point. He half asses it when he feels like it...like tonight in the 9th. I don't give a **** if they were losing 10-3 or winning 10-3, make the throw. It's not always when they're losing, sometimes it's when we need the play. He was great throughout 2005; for some reason last year he got the idea that he didn't have to try sometimes.

I'm talking about his defense. You can live with Uribe as your 8th or 9th hitter. His arm saves more runs than he will ever be given credit for.

Well, I'm talking about keeping Iguchi. And if I had to pick between Iguchi and Uribe, I sure as hell would pick Iguchi. Again, Uribe can play great defense, sometimes he chooses not to, though. And when he doesn't, he becomes absolutely useless.

Lip Man 1
06-07-2007, 11:18 PM
Patrick:

You say "only" 6.5 out of a wild card spot. Keep in mind the 'longest' winning streak this season by the team has been four in a row... 6.5 seems like 16 and a half.

With all the issues including streaky hitting and possibly the worst bullpen in the league it's hard to imagine a streak where the Sox can win seven or eight straight or 20 out of 27 to get back into it.

Anything can happen but the odds are very, very, very long.

Lip

kitekrazy
06-07-2007, 11:18 PM
I think it was Singleton who pointed that out, but at least we play a pretty crappy Astros team next.

The Astros are probably jumping for joy.

roadrunner
06-07-2007, 11:19 PM
That is true, but what is Ozzie supposed to do? The whole bullpen, absent Jenks, just plain sucks. I have never seen a manager manage yet without having a bullpen. They way they are pitching, we might as well go with 5 starters, a closer, and 19 position players.

You're right about the bullpen sucking. That being the case, you'd think he would've jumped at the chance to bring in jenks tonight.

Patrick134
06-07-2007, 11:19 PM
Patrick:

You say "only" 6.5 out of a wild card spot. Keep in mind the 'longest' winning streak this season by the team has been four in a row... 6.5 seems like 16 and a half.

With all the issues including streaky hitting and possibly the worst bullpen in the league it's hard to imagine a streak where the Sox can win seven or eight straight or 20 out of 27 to get back into it.

Anything can happen but the odds are very, very, very long.

Lip


The offense will break out of this slump. Book it.

RadioheadRocks
06-07-2007, 11:19 PM
Patrick:

You say "only" 6.5 out of a wild card spot. Keep in mind the 'longest' winning streak this season by the team has been four in a row... 6.5 seems like 16 and a half.

With all the issues including streaky hitting and possibly the worst bullpen in the league it's hard to imagine a streak where the Sox can win seven or eight straight or 20 out of 27 to get back into it.

Anything can happen but the odds are very, very, very long.

Lip

Not to mention how many other teams we'd have to leapfrog over for that wild card spot.

WhiteSox5187
06-07-2007, 11:19 PM
That's not the point. He half asses it when he feels like it...like tonight in the 9th. I don't give a **** if they were losing 10-3 or winning 10-3, make the throw. It's not always when they're losing, sometimes it's when we need the play. He was great throughout 2005; for some reason last year he got the idea that he didn't have to try sometimes.



Well, I'm talking about keeping Iguchi. And if I had to pick between Iguchi and Uribe, I sure as hell would pick Iguchi. Again, Uribe can play great defense, sometimes he chooses not to, though.
Even in 2005 he wasn't GREAT. He was good in the playoffs and that's about it. When you get right down to it, he's not a good shortstop.

Brian26
06-07-2007, 11:19 PM
He half asses it when he feels like it...like tonight in the 9th. I don't give a **** if they were losing 10-3 or winning 10-3, make the throw. It's not always when they're losing, sometimes it's when we need the play.

Give me an example, other than tonight's game, when the game was on the line and Uribe "didn't try" because he "didn't feel like it."

I already gave you two examples of Iguchi mental errors from last night and tonight in critical situations.

WhiteSox5187
06-07-2007, 11:20 PM
The offense will break out of this slump. Book it.
I'm sure the offense will come around, but what about the bullpen?

Patrick134
06-07-2007, 11:21 PM
Give me an example, other than tonight's game, when the game was on the line and Uribe "didn't try" because he "didn't feel like it."

I already gave you two examples of Iguchi mental errors from last night and tonight in critical situations.


He certainly felt like it in game 4 of the world series with that dive into the stands in the 9th inning. Go Uribe !!

Brian26
06-07-2007, 11:21 PM
Even in 2005 he wasn't GREAT. He was good in the playoffs and that's about it. When you get right down to it, he's not a good shortstop.

Yep, thank god he never made that throw from deep in the hole against the Indians on the night of the Joe Crede walkoff to save the tie and give the Sox a chance to win.

WhiteSox5187
06-07-2007, 11:21 PM
Give me an example, other than tonight's game, when the game was on the line and Uribe "didn't try" because he "didn't feel like it."

I already gave you two examples of Iguchi mental errors from last night and tonight in critical situations.
Obviously I'm not a psychologist and as you can see, I can not even spell that correctly, but I think Uribe has a tendency to take his at bats to the field. Last year afer a lousy at bat for him it seemed like he would make a lousy play in the field, this year too.

Brian26
06-07-2007, 11:22 PM
He certainly felt like it in game 4 of the world series with that dive into the stands in the 9th inning. Go Uribe !!

But that doesn't count. Only Uribe errors when we're losing by seven runs count, because clearly he doesn't like to play defense in "garbage time."

oeo
06-07-2007, 11:22 PM
Iguchi is not hitting for average or power, he's not fast and has limited range.

Iguchi was very good in 2005 and pretty good in 2006. This year he's bad and one of the many problems on the team.

He's batting .340 since the 25th of May. No one has noticed that he's been very valuable to our offense, lately, though because no one else can hit the damn ball.

Iguchi isn't a speed demon, but he's fast enough. He can steal a bag if we need it. And minus a couple of brain farts, I like what I've been seeing from the defensive side this year than any of the last two years. He looks more comfortable out there, whether it's going back for flyballs or teaming up with Uribe, he just looks better.

kitekrazy
06-07-2007, 11:25 PM
Our minor league system is exposed enough the way it is. Anderson, Owens, Sweeney and Fields so far look completely overmatched on the major league level. I can't imagine having all four of those guys in the lineup in the same game.

It's a sad state when you expect minor leaguers to make a big difference. Maybe it's a bigger jump from the minors to the majors than you think.

PeoriaSoxFan
06-07-2007, 11:25 PM
Is there a link anywhere or other thread which discusses the Sox draft today? I need some positive new, hopefully....

oeo
06-07-2007, 11:25 PM
Give me an example, other than tonight's game, when the game was on the line and Uribe "didn't try" because he "didn't feel like it."

I already gave you two examples of Iguchi mental errors from last night and tonight in critical situations.

I need some time to think of more, but last year vs. the Cubs...he blew a double play, I believe it was in the Sunday game.

I'm not making it up that Uribe half asses on the defensive side, and this is not the first time I've mentioned it.

Tragg
06-07-2007, 11:26 PM
True, but when your chance of making the playoffs is basically over, you start looking toward building the team for next year and beyond. Elders near the end of the line like Dye, Erstad, Thome and Contreras can bring a lot in trade from a team who has a chance to win this year.
Some years yield a lot; some years they don't. Markets change.

As for our execution of the trades, we basically gave Ray Durham to Oakland. Nothing memorable for Baldwin, Lofton, or Howry either. Thankfully, we haven't done much dumping lately.
We didn't get as much as we gave from White Flag. (the best piece, Garland, came indirectly from White Flag - White Flag allowed us to disguise Karchner as a closer).
On the other hand, we got a lot when we dumped players in the late 1980s.

CLR01
06-07-2007, 11:27 PM
But that doesn't count. Only Uribe errors when we're losing by seven runs count, because clearly he doesn't like to play defense in "garbage time."

They each count equal and your boy has just as many of them as Iguchi. Along with a lower fielding percent, a lower zone rating and a lower range factor.

WhiteSox5187
06-07-2007, 11:28 PM
Yep, thank god he never made that throw from deep in the hole against the Indians on the night of the Joe Crede walkoff to save the tie and give the Sox a chance to win.
Ya know, in eighth grade I made this great great diving stop on a line drive at short to double off a runner at second and win my team the game but you don't keep a guy on a roster for one or two GREAT plays two years ago. Everyone has their moments, you don't say "Oh well Uribe made these two great plays in 2005 and has made about fifty lousy plays since then, but I'm going to keep him on the team because of those two great plays." Uribe is AT BEST a servicable shorstop and usually a liability defensively.

Brian26
06-07-2007, 11:28 PM
It's a sad state when you expect minor leaguers to make a big difference. Maybe it's a bigger jump from the minors to the majors than you think.

It's a sad state when highly touted and groomed minor leaguers can't make a statement. It's still early with these guys, but all we've been hearing about for the past three years is how good Sweeney, Anderson and Fields will be. All three guys have glaring weaknesses at the plate.

It's not uncommon for minor leaguers to come up and contribute immediately. If our guys get exposed at the mlb-level to the point where they have no trade value, that's when the long-term plan for this team becomes really grey.

kitekrazy
06-07-2007, 11:30 PM
And, where is Dr. Coop in all of this??? Walker rightly gets blame, but I am starting to wonder what Dr. Don is doing with his time as of late. Seriously, this bullpen, over the last 5 weeks, is the worst I can remember ever seeing.

Funny how people jump on Walker and Coop is responsible for a pen that sucked going back to last year.

Patrick134
06-07-2007, 11:31 PM
It's a sad state when highly touted and groomed minor leaguers can't make a statement. It's still early with these guys, but all we've been hearing about for the past three years is how good Sweeney, Anderson and Fields will be. All three guys have glaring weaknesses at the plate.

It's not uncommon for minor leaguers to come up and contribute immediately. If our guys get exposed at the mlb-level to the point where they have no trade value, that's when the long-term plan for this team becomes really grey.


jeremy Reed tanked too, and Borchard still being in the majors is amazing.

WhiteSox5187
06-07-2007, 11:31 PM
It's a sad state when you expect minor leaguers to make a big difference. Maybe it's a bigger jump from the minors to the majors than you think.
I'm not expecting Fields, Sweeney, Owens or Anderson to join the team and then lead us to the pennant, but I wasn't expecting them to get so overmatched by major league pitching either. Obviously it's still early for Field and Sweeney and Owens have had their moments, but none of these guys look particularly good at the plate right now. I don't think it's too much to expect that these guys hit their weight.

Patrick134
06-07-2007, 11:32 PM
Funny how people jump on Walker and Coop is responsible for a pen that sucked going back to last year.

Coop hasn't walked a guy on 4 pitches all year. He's working his tail off. I don't think I've seen another pitching coach work so hard. But at the end of the day, it's in the pitcher's hands.

Brian26
06-07-2007, 11:33 PM
Uribe is AT BEST a servicable shorstop and usually a liability defensively.

This is just an insane comment. I can't disagree with you more, and I'll have to continue the discussion tomorrow. If Uribe is "servicable", then Cintron should be playing Pony League ball right now.

RadioheadRocks
06-07-2007, 11:33 PM
Funny how people jump on Walker and Coop is responsible for a pen that sucked going back to last year.


Ummmm, isn't Art Kusnyer the bullpen coach?

WhiteSox5187
06-07-2007, 11:33 PM
Coop hasn't walked a guy on 4 pitches all year. He's working his tail off. I don't think I've seen another pitching coach work so hard. But at the end of the day, it's in the pitcher's hands.
And Walker has been the guy who is hitting .225 for us? It's ultimately in the hitter's hands too. But as I've said, some sort of sacrafice needs to be made to appease Jobu.

Patrick134
06-07-2007, 11:35 PM
This is just an insane comment. I can't disagree with you more, and I'll have to continue the discussion tomorrow. If Uribe is "servicable", then Cintron should be playing Pony League ball right now.


This is where fantasy baseball makes people goofy. Uribe is not a hall of famer by any means. But he's far better than servicable. He works his tail off, I don't know if i've ever seen a shortstop work so hard. he busts his tail out there.

JB98
06-07-2007, 11:35 PM
This is just an insane comment. I can't disagree with you more, and I'll have to continue the discussion tomorrow. If Uribe is "servicable", then Cintron should be playing Pony League ball right now.

That's part of the rub. We don't have anybody on the bench or in the minors who could take Juan's job. He gets away with some lazy habits because his 'D' cannot be replaced.

His 'A' defensive game is fantastic.

Brian26
06-07-2007, 11:35 PM
They each count equal and your boy has just as many of them as Iguchi. Along with a lower fielding percent, a lower zone rating and a lower range factor.

Post the links or PM me, CLSABR.

CLR01
06-07-2007, 11:35 PM
And Walker has been the guy who is hitting .225 for us? It's ultimately in the hitter's hands too. But as I've said, some sort of sacrafice needs to be made to appease Jobu.


At least Coop has 5 starters and a closer who are all pitching well. Walker has Thome.

peeonwrigley
06-07-2007, 11:37 PM
Iguchi and Uribe aren't the reason this team is losing. They aren't lighting the world on fire, but the injuries (and honestly, reliance upon in the first place) to Pods and Erstad leave us with the worst offensive outfield I can remember in years. Konerko isn't giving us timely power production, Dye has been awful based upon the expectations we have for him, and Crede shows no signs of replicating last year. Those 3 guys are much more to blame than Iguchi and Uribe right now.

And of course the bullpen goes without saying.

I wouldn't be opposed to moving either or both of Uribe and Iguchi contingent upon a viable Major League future replacement. However, the team has much more pressing issues at the present time than those guys.

CLR01
06-07-2007, 11:37 PM
Post the links or PM me, CLSABR.

Go to ESPN and take a look at the fielding stats. It's not rocket surgery.

oeo
06-07-2007, 11:37 PM
This is just an insane comment. I can't disagree with you more, and I'll have to continue the discussion tomorrow. If Uribe is "servicable", then Cintron should be playing Pony League ball right now.

Cintron isn't our starting SS. I disagree with that guy about his defense. Uribe can play Gold Glove defense, he just doesn't do it all the time. He's still not much of a big league player...I would take many SS around the league over him.

lakeviewsoxfan
06-07-2007, 11:38 PM
This is where fantasy baseball makes people goofy. Uribe is not a hall of famer by any means. But he's far better than servicable. He works his tail off, I don't know if i've ever seen a shortstop work so hard. he busts his tail out there.

:o:

WhiteSox5187
06-07-2007, 11:38 PM
This is just an insane comment. I can't disagree with you more, and I'll have to continue the discussion tomorrow. If Uribe is "servicable", then Cintron should be playing Pony League ball right now.
I just want to clarify here, I'm not trying to say that Cintron is any better than Uribe. Sadly, Uribe is our best option right now at SS, but I dont' think he's the long term answer at short. If I were to come up with a list of guys I'd want to keep on this team, Uribe does not make that list. I'd look to improve at short in the off season or go out and see what I can get now.

roadrunner
06-07-2007, 11:39 PM
This is just an insane comment. I can't disagree with you more, and I'll have to continue the discussion tomorrow. If Uribe is "servicable", then Cintron should be playing Pony League ball right now.

I think "serviceable" is a somewhat generous but mostly accurate description. He's basically an easy out that can occastionally go deep. His career .296 OBP is laughable. And he can't even bunt.

Cintron is terrible - a poor man's joey cora

Tragg
06-07-2007, 11:40 PM
It's not uncommon for minor leaguers to come up and contribute immediately. If our guys get exposed at the mlb-level to the point where they have no trade value, that's when the long-term plan for this team becomes really grey.
They weren't called up until our hand was forced, which suggests that Sox management knew they really weren't ready, but had no choice. Then we have a rookie at lead off, a tough gig for a rookie under any circumstances. And they are surrounded by quality veterans who are slumping and some veterans of dubious quality and a team that is struggling.

And when we're reasonably healthy and decide to stick 1 rookie out there to presumably, bat 9 with no pressure to produce while he learns the game, the manager gets antsy and can't live with that.

And if they sit in the majors too long without producing, it makes it a lot harder to dress them up like Jeremy Reed and trade them for something of quality in return. KW has been pretty good about not letting prospects rot.

Tough life for the rookie.

kitekrazy
06-07-2007, 11:40 PM
I'm not expecting Fields, Sweeney, Owens or Anderson to join the team and then lead us to the pennant, but I wasn't expecting them to get so overmatched by major league pitching either. Obviously it's still early for Field and Sweeney and Owens have had their moments, but none of these guys look particularly good at the plate right now. I don't think it's too much to expect that these guys hit their weight.

Most of the players on this team are not hitting their weight. I think people have high expectations for the minor leaguers. I guess people forgot Ventura's first season. They only player I can recall that made a difference their 1st year out of the minors was Thomas.

Lorenzo Barcelo
06-07-2007, 11:41 PM
The offense will break out of this slump. Book it.

It will be too damn late.

JB98
06-07-2007, 11:42 PM
Iguchi and Uribe aren't the reason this team is losing. They aren't lighting the world on fire, but the injuries (and honestly, reliance upon in the first place) to Pods and Erstad leave us with the worst offensive outfield I can remember in years. Konerko isn't giving us timely power production, Dye has been awful based upon the expectations we have for him, and Crede shows no signs of replicating last year. Those 3 guys are much more to blame than Iguchi and Uribe right now.

And of course the bullpen goes without saying.

I wouldn't be opposed to moving either or both of Uribe and Iguchi contingent upon a viable Major League future replacement. However, the team has much more pressing issues at the present time than those guys.

I blame Mackowiak for everything.

Frater Perdurabo
06-07-2007, 11:43 PM
Cintron is terrible - a poor man's joey cora

Given that, maybe in 15 years Uribe can be the manager and Cintron his bench coach. Uribe has Ozzie's combo of a great glove and #9 hitter who will hack at anything.

CLR01
06-07-2007, 11:43 PM
I blame Mackowiak for everything.

He's my backup to Satan. http://whitesoxinteractive.com/chisox716/shrug.gif

Tragg
06-07-2007, 11:46 PM
Cintron is terrible - a poor man's joey cora
Ouch.
But accurate.

At his best, I think Uribe is a really good defensive SS. What we could get to replace him scares me more than a few more years of Uribe. There's Cintron on the bench and Neffi across town. And I'm still having heebejeebies from Clayton 5 years ago. There are a lot of SS worse than Uribe playing his C game.

roadrunner
06-07-2007, 11:46 PM
Given that, maybe in 15 years Uribe can be the manager and Cintron his bench coach. Uribe has Ozzie's combo of a great glove and #9 hitter who will hack at anything.

lololololololololol

Oldschoolsoxguy
06-07-2007, 11:52 PM
Face it...we stink.And Uribe,Cintron,Iguchi,Paulie and whoever else you want to throw in there isn't doing jack ****ing squat.We have been a horsedump team since the break LAST YEAR...the vets talked Kenny out of adding anything last summer,but no way in hell will that happen again.And it shouldn't.And if it means that he has to dump the free agent to be guys for prospects so be it.If it means dumping salary to go after a couple of
studs in the off-season,so be it.If Mark Buehrle says sorry but $12 million
a season isn't enough cuz i can get $15 million from someone else,then thanks for the memories pal,you were alright by us when you were here.But ****,we need a makeover in the worst way.If anyone on the team
is satisfied with what happened in 2005 and can't get it going again,see ya.
What the **** is up with these guys ?

Frater Perdurabo
06-07-2007, 11:52 PM
lololololololololol

The only problem is that Uribe doesn't mouth off nearly enough.

thomas35forever
06-07-2007, 11:52 PM
This team has completely lost its focus. And worse yet, the Tribune is ready to blow another fan-on-field story out of proportion. Barring a miracle, this season is heading the crapper and fast.

oeo
06-07-2007, 11:54 PM
This team has completely lost its focus. And worse yet, the Tribune is ready to blow another fan-on-field story out of proportion. Barring a miracle, this season is heading the crapper and fast.

Anyone that has something to say about the fans on the field, I'm just going to say the wind blew them onto the field. :D:

BainesHOF
06-07-2007, 11:54 PM
He's batting .340 since the 25th of May.

Well, give Iguchi a raise!

His overall stats tell the story. His defense is adequate at best, but when you don't hit for average or power and aren't a speedster, then really you do not belong on a team that has plans to contend.

Oh, did I mention he's a middle infielder who has trouble bunting?

And to top it off, Iguchi seldom runs hard when he sends out a hit for extra bases. He's almost always satisfied with himself and just cruises into second base like a dog instead of running hard and looking for a possible triple.

Iguchi, my friends, is part of the problem.

oeo
06-07-2007, 11:58 PM
Well, give Iguchi a raise!

His overall stats tell the story. His defense is adequate at best, but when you don't hit for average or power and aren't a speedster, then really you do not belong on a team that has plans to contend.

Oh, did I mention he's a middle infielder who has trouble bunting?

Look at the overall stats of this entire team. Does that mean they can't hit? Of the healthy starters, he is 3rd in batting average behind Thome and AJ.

He gave us two seasons at about .280 and 15-20 homeruns. That's a solid second baseman. His average has been creeping up, and will probably be around .280 again by the end of the year.

And...
-No one can bunt on this team.
-He can get runners over in different ways.
-He's great at hitting the ball to the opposite field.

roadrunner
06-08-2007, 12:02 AM
Well, give Iguchi a raise!

His overall stats tell the story. His defense is adequate at best, but when you don't hit for average or power and aren't a speedster, then really you do not belong on a team that has plans to contend.

Oh, did I mention he's a middle infielder who has trouble bunting?

And to top it off, Iguchi seldom runs hard when he sends out a hit for extra bases. He's almost always satisfied with himself and just cruises into second base like a dog instead of running hard and looking for a possible triple.

Iguchi, my friends, is part of the problem.

He definitely is starting to look like he has below average speed for a second baseman. You certainly want your middle infielders to be able to play defense, run, handle the bat and get on base. It doesn't seem like we're getting any of those offensive attributes from uribe. Iguchi is still a useful guy to have in the lineup because he can handle the bat well and he is willing to take a walk. His lack of power this year, however, is disturbing. (335 SLG)

salty99
06-08-2007, 12:48 AM
Obviously we stink right now, and those last two innings were pathetic. The crowd was absolutely lifeless and the Yankees crowd was much louder. That coupled with the fact those two idiots ran on the field made for a miserable day. I wouldn't mind seeing Iguchi, Uribe, the entire bullpen minus Jenks, and Cintron leave. Despite all those highly touted AAA players not doing the job right now, they're only at the top because we traded away our best prospect in Chris Young.

BainesHOF
06-08-2007, 12:53 AM
Look at the overall stats of this entire team. Does that mean they can't hit? Of the healthy starters, he is 3rd in batting average behind Thome and AJ.

He gave us two seasons at about .280 and 15-20 homeruns. That's a solid second baseman. His average has been creeping up, and will probably be around .280 again by the end of the year.

And...
-No one can bunt on this team.
-He can get runners over in different ways.
-He's great at hitting the ball to the opposite field.

So what you're saying is we should be satisified with Iguchi because he is one of the tallest midgets. Great.

I'm not talking about the last two seasons. He used to be a solid second baseman. I'm talking about this season and the future. Iguchi this year has been a dog, and coincidently hustles like one, too - not a good combo if you're scoring at home.

There's no way Iguchi reaches .280 this season. And even if he does, .280 with little power, no RBI, no speed and limited defense does nothing for you. Absolutely nothing.

oeo
06-08-2007, 01:10 AM
So what you're saying is we should be satisified with Iguchi because he is one of the tallest midgets. Great.

I'm not talking about the last two seasons. He used to be a solid second baseman. I'm talking about this season and the future. Iguchi this year has been a dog, and coincidently hustles like one, too - not a good combo if you're scoring at home.

There's no way Iguchi reaches .280 this season. And even if he does, .280 with little power, no RBI, no speed and limited defense does nothing for you. Absolutely nothing.

Why is he no longer a solid second baseman? No one in our lineup has been consistent this year. Why are you ignoring the fact that he's been our third best hitter this year?

There's no way he reaches .280 this season? He's at .246 right now, I'm pretty sure it's possible; as a matter of fact, I know it is. You're being ignorant to everything except his 'overall statistics' this year. Even though his history of the last two years has shown differently, and over the last few weeks he's been one of our best, if not the best hitter. You continue to do that, though, it's not helping your case.

And you've still yet to name a replacement. Should we clone Chase Utley?

johnnyg83
06-08-2007, 01:13 AM
So what you're saying is we should be satisified with Iguchi because he is one of the tallest midgets. Great.

I'm not talking about the last two seasons. He used to be a solid second baseman. I'm talking about this season and the future. Iguchi this year has been a dog, and coincidently hustles like one, too - not a good combo if you're scoring at home.

There's no way Iguchi reaches .280 this season. And even if he does, .280 with little power, no RBI, no speed and limited defense does nothing for you. Absolutely nothing.

Iguchi ain't the problem ... it's the corner infielders and outfielders who are relied on for offense .. may I remind you that Willie Harris precluded Iguchi. Willie was a good talker and the world's fastest bad baserunner.

StillMissOzzie
06-08-2007, 01:38 AM
Go to ESPN and take a look at the fielding stats. It's not rocket surgery.
You got that right! :tongue:

Ouch.
But accurate.

At his best, I think Uribe is a really good defensive SS. What we could get to replace him scares me more than a few more years of Uribe. There's Cintron on the bench and Neffi across town. And I'm still having heebejeebies from Clayton 5 years ago. There are a lot of SS worse than Uribe playing his C game.
If by "across town" you mean Detroit, then yes, because the Cubs dumped Neifi Perez on the Tigers last year. :o:

jeremy Reed tanked too, and Borchard still being in the majors is amazing.

But he's not...he's on the Marlins! :redneck

And I think Ozzie should have brought in Jenks to pitch to Rodriguez before that game got out of reach. :angry:

SMO
:gulp:

JGarlandrules20
06-08-2007, 02:14 AM
Basically...I should stop going to games. I'm just bad luck. I've tried wearing different shirts, changing things up, going to games with different people but nothing's worked.

I know the guys running the field were very wrong, but it made me laugh. It was something to take my mind off the sox throwing away another game.

And I think Ozzie was the only person that didn't call Arod's grand slam.

QCIASOXFAN
06-08-2007, 02:58 AM
I have been opening up a restaurant here for the last week and have not been able to watch any games but I guess that is a good thing. I turned the game on last night after working my ass off just in time to see the Yankees shaking hands at the end of the game.:(: It is what it is.:(:

Grzegorz
06-08-2007, 04:31 AM
Plenty of time to jump back into it.

Plenty of time, but is there enough talent to do so? Will the other teams ahead of the Chicago White Sox lose at the same time the Chicago White Sox are winning to maximize their move up into the playoff race?

Iguchi and Uribe aren't the reason this team is losing. They aren't lighting the world on fire, but the injuries (and honestly, reliance upon in the first place) to Pods and Erstad leave us with the worst offensive outfield I can remember in years. Konerko isn't giving us timely power production, Dye has been awful based upon the expectations we have for him, and Crede shows no signs of replicating last year. Those 3 guys are much more to blame than Iguchi and Uribe right now.

And of course the bullpen goes without saying.

Basically this team is failing at every facet of the game. This sounds like last year all over when many on these boards said it was only a matter of time until they get hot, or all they have to do is flip the switch.

The starters are the strength of this team. The bullpen, defense, and the offense (including overall team speed) need to be retooled.

As for June being the weak link in the schedule that will allow the Chicago White Sox to make their move I totally disagree. The Chicago White Sox are playing such poor fundamental baseball at this moment that it doesn't matter who they play.

Right now this is a bad team. The question is whether they can put some type of winning streak together to make some type of run and in the process raise the trade value of some in the lineup so they can be moved for maximum return.

BeviBall!
06-08-2007, 07:00 AM
The offense will break out of this slump. Book it.

Bold prediction. In order for you to be correct, this team needs to go on a 1-2 month tear to make up for almost a full season of garbage. Regardless, with Dye being held out to drain his knee and receive cortisone shots, we might not have his services for awhile.

Tragg
06-08-2007, 07:35 AM
If by "across town" you mean Detroit, then yes, because the Cubs dumped Neifi Perez on the Tigers last year. :o:


Thanks for the correction - Well Detroit is north of the Cell anyway.
The idea is there are a lot of SS worse than Uribe and I see more pressing deficiencies than Uribe and Iguchi.

Hitmen77
06-08-2007, 07:39 AM
Is there a link anywhere or other thread which discusses the Sox draft today? I need some positive new, hopefully....

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=88737

SBSoxFan
06-08-2007, 09:27 AM
Good teams play around injuries. Pods and Thome can't be the entire offense. Even when they were in the lineup, we were right around .500. Crede has been **** this year and Erstad was starting to slump a little bit before he got hurt in Toronto.

This team is a .500 team at best.

:rolleyes: You're right. At one point they were only 3 games over .500 at 12 - 9. Do you know what that equates to over a full season? 93 wins.

jenn2080
06-08-2007, 09:28 AM
I am pretty embarassed to be a Sox today after last night. ****ing fans running out on the field again.

russ99
06-08-2007, 09:43 AM
Dye's injury totally took me (and probably Ozzie too) by surprise.

I get the feeling Dye and Crede have all been carrying injuries all year, and that's why their performance has been so poor.

Also, Josh Fields is so obviously not ready to face major league pitching, it's ridiculous. We need a better option at 3B.

russ99
06-08-2007, 09:45 AM
I really wish I didn't have tickets for all three games this weekend...

Not really sure what to say about this team that hasn't been said. Congratulations on the most disappointing, underachieving team I think I've seen.

You know what, after that grand-slam I entertained the thought of selling all my tickets for the rest of the season, but then I came to my senses.

Foulke You
06-08-2007, 12:37 PM
Basically...I should stop going to games. I'm just bad luck. I've tried wearing different shirts, changing things up, going to games with different people but nothing's worked.

I know the guys running the field were very wrong, but it made me laugh. It was something to take my mind off the sox throwing away another game.

And I think Ozzie was the only person that didn't call Arod's grand slam.
Don't feel bad, you have company. I'm also 0W-4L with a rainout to boot. I would like to watch my Sox win at least one friggin game this year. I'm going to be at the whole PNC Park series next weekend so you'd think I might be able to see at least one win?:(:

jenn2080
06-08-2007, 12:44 PM
Basically...I should stop going to games. I'm just bad luck. I've tried wearing different shirts, changing things up, going to games with different people but nothing's worked.

I know the guys running the field were very wrong, but it made me laugh. It was something to take my mind off the sox throwing away another game.

And I think Ozzie was the only person that didn't call Arod's grand slam.



Laugh:?: ?? That's a first. I would think most would be disgusted.

Foulke You
06-08-2007, 12:57 PM
Also, Josh Fields is so obviously not ready to face major league pitching, it's ridiculous. We need a better option at 3B.
I'm not going to say he is not ready after only a 2 game sample size. He had to face two tough right handers in Wang and Mussina right off the plane from Charlotte. Let's see how he does for a week or so before declaring him unfit for the lineup. I will say that right now, he is our best option down there at 3B for his defense alone. He made a really nice play on that bunt earlier in the game that Cintron would have never made.

areilly
06-08-2007, 01:01 PM
We were at Kendall's on Lincoln. My friend, an Indians fan, says something to the effect of "you know, going into the season I thought your bullpen would be one of your strengths."

His words echo in my head as Ryan Bukvich trots out from the bullpen.

I turn to him and say "This is the first major league batter this kid has thrown to in two years and it happens to be arguably the greatest player of all-time."

Pause.

Then I say "This is going to be a grand slam."

Worst game of the year. I don't care if they're only 4 under; this team is beyond hope.

itsnotrequired
06-08-2007, 01:06 PM
We were at Kendall's on Lincoln. My friend, an Indians fan, says something to the effect of "you know, going into the season I thought your bullpen would be one of your strengths."

His words echo in my head as Ryan Bukvich trots out from the bullpen.

I turn to him and say "This is the first major league batter this kid has thrown to in two years and it happens to be arguably the greatest player of all-time."

Pause.

Then I say "This is going to be a grand slam."

Worst game of the year. I don't care if they're only 4 under; this team is beyond hope.

I sort of said the same thing. His first pitch snuck by ARod. I remarked to my companion "He won't fool ARod with that." Fastball down the pipe, gone.

duke of dorwood
06-08-2007, 01:16 PM
The offense is in a horrendous slump for over 2 months, and with a horrible bullpen ( at times) they're only 4 games under .500 They could easily be 20 games under. They'll heat up, and soon. Bookmark this post for future enjoyment.

Dr Melfi has an opening

Foulke You
06-08-2007, 01:27 PM
I sort of said the same thing. His first pitch snuck by ARod. I remarked to my companion "He won't fool ARod with that." Fastball down the pipe, gone.
I was saying the same thing LOL. You can't sneak two straight fastballs past A-Rod. He needed to get a breaking ball over.

However, prior to the great Bukvich taking the mound I was wondering once again, if Ozzie is saving Bobby Jenks for the World Series or something. He last pitched on Monday. It just makes no sense to me how Ozzie refuses to go to Jenks in big hold situations this year especially with the setup men struggling as they have. You bring your BEST bullpen pitcher to get the best hitter in baseball in a bases loaded situation in a 1 run game. This is at least the 3rd time Ozzie has done this during this skid we've been on. The Aardsma vs. Torii Hunter situation comes to mind at the Metrodome. I am an Ozzie supporter and even I can't defend his bullpen strategy this year.:?:

roadrunner
06-08-2007, 01:57 PM
I was saying the same thing LOL. You can't sneak two straight fastballs past A-Rod. He needed to get a breaking ball over.

However, prior to the great Bukvich taking the mound I was wondering once again, if Ozzie is saving Bobby Jenks for the World Series or something. He last pitched on Monday. It just makes no sense to me how Ozzie refuses to go to Jenks in big hold situations this year especially with the setup men struggling as they have. You bring your BEST bullpen pitcher to get the best hitter in baseball in a bases loaded situation in a 1 run game. This is at least the 3rd time Ozzie has done this during this skid we've been on. The Aardsma vs. Torii Hunter situation comes to mind at the Metrodome. I am an Ozzie supporter and even I can't defend his bullpen strategy this year.:?:

i totally agree. the derek lee at bat also comes to mind.

alohafri
06-08-2007, 02:58 PM
I have been opening up a restaurant here for the last week and have not been able to watch any games but I guess that is a good thing. I turned the game on last night after working my ass off just in time to see the Yankees shaking hands at the end of the game.:(: It is what it is.:(:

What kind of restaurant? We are heading out that way to catch a Swing game in a few weeks.

alohafri
06-08-2007, 03:04 PM
I was at the game last night. A couple of things came to mind. First of all, Andy Gonzalez is a shortstop/second baseman, correct? Why have him pinch run for Konerko in the 8th and play him at first base? He looked completely lost out there.

Why does Ozzie have to follow the LaRussa book? Bring Jenks in with the bases juiced in the 8th against ARod, not some kid who would poop his pants. Yeah, you can argue that Jenks is our closer and will only come in with a save situation. If that is the case, why bother having him around? He won't get much work this year! I heard an interview with Rollie Fingers on Dibble and Kennedy's show driving to the game and Fingers said that he would never be able to pitch in the big leagues these days. He needed more than one inning of work to really get going.

Lip Man 1
06-08-2007, 03:38 PM
Goose Gossage in an interview on Comcast Sports Chicago today (Fran Healy Show) said the same thing.

Lip

Tragg
06-08-2007, 04:27 PM
The best reliever of this generation frequently pitches in the 8th. - Rivera.

BTW, why was Contreras pulled anyway? He was under 100 pitches and pulling him used one of the 2 or 3 only "Dependable" relievers we have. We just needed an out and the inning's over.

DickAllen72
06-08-2007, 04:30 PM
Observations from this game:

Cintron sucks.
Fields is not ready.
If Bobby Abreu were on the White Sox, he would be their best player (and that's not saying much).
If Bukvich was the answer, I really don't want to know what the question was.

Other than AJ, this team has no heart.

I agree.

JB98
06-08-2007, 04:34 PM
I was saying the same thing LOL. You can't sneak two straight fastballs past A-Rod. He needed to get a breaking ball over.

However, prior to the great Bukvich taking the mound I was wondering once again, if Ozzie is saving Bobby Jenks for the World Series or something. He last pitched on Monday. It just makes no sense to me how Ozzie refuses to go to Jenks in big hold situations this year especially with the setup men struggling as they have. You bring your BEST bullpen pitcher to get the best hitter in baseball in a bases loaded situation in a 1 run game. This is at least the 3rd time Ozzie has done this during this skid we've been on. The Aardsma vs. Torii Hunter situation comes to mind at the Metrodome. I am an Ozzie supporter and even I can't defend his bullpen strategy this year.:?:

Torre asked Rivera to get five outs last night. He brought in his best reliever to face our best hitter (Thome) with the game on the line. Ozzie brought in Bukvich to face New York's best hitter with the game on the line.

The results were predictable.

Chicken Dinner
06-08-2007, 04:46 PM
BTW, why was Contreras pulled anyway? He was under 100 pitches and pulling him used one of the 2 or 3 only "Dependable" relievers we have. We just needed an out and the inning's over.

So the pen could give up 7 runs in an inning and 2/3.

JB98
06-08-2007, 04:49 PM
So the pen could give up 7 runs in an inning and 2/3.

Don't forget the two inherited runners they allowed to score. That's nine Yankees across the plate in the time it took them to record five outs.

There's losing a game, and then there's arson. The bullpen should go to jail for that.

Frater Perdurabo
06-08-2007, 04:53 PM
Torre asked Rivera to get five outs last night. He brought in his best reliever to face our best hitter (Thome) with the game on the line. Ozzie brought in Bukvich to face New York's best hitter with the game on the line.

The results were predictable.

But St. Ozzie won the World Series. He is without blame or blemish!

JB98
06-08-2007, 04:57 PM
But St. Ozzie won the World Series. He is without blame or blemish!

I've backed Ozzie at times and criticized him at others. I'm neither a hater nor an apologist.

But I think we can all agree that last night's bullpen management was ridiculous.

Frater Perdurabo
06-08-2007, 05:06 PM
I've backed Ozzie at times and criticized him at others. I'm neither a hater nor an apologist.

But I think we can all agree that last night's bullpen management was ridiculous.

Hey, I'm not calling for his head either. I'm the one who wants a new hitting coach, a new bench coach (or Baines back to bench coach), and Paulie dealt. :redneck

Anyone who thinks Ozzie DID NOT mismanage the pen last night needs to have their head examined. Of course, it would take a colonoscopy for the doctor to find the head to examine in the first place.

JB98
06-08-2007, 05:12 PM
Hey, I'm not calling for his head either. I'm the one who wants a new hitting coach, a new bench coach (or Baines back to bench coach), and Paulie dealt. :redneck

Anyone who thinks Ozzie DID NOT mismanage the pen last night needs to have their head examined. Of course, it would take a colonoscopy for the doctor to find the head to examine in the first place.

I have to admit I thought you might need your head examined last year when you wanted to trade Paulie, Uribe AND Freddy for Michael Young. :D:

Just giving you ****. :cool:

Mr. White Sox
06-08-2007, 05:14 PM
And we miss Oswalt. No excuses. We have to kick their asses.

Watch Chris Sampson throw 7 scoreless and Hunter Pence go 5/6. Hope Wheeler collapses again.

Wait, should that be in teal?

JB98
06-08-2007, 05:18 PM
Watch Chris Sampson throw 7 scoreless and Hunter Pence go 5/6. Hope Wheeler collapses again.

Wait, should that be in teal?


Sampson is 5-5 on a team that is 11 games below .500. He throws a sinker and has a halfway decent changeup.

I can't believe I'm worried about facing him, but I am.

Frater Perdurabo
06-08-2007, 05:46 PM
I have to admit I thought you might need your head examined last year when you wanted to trade Paulie, Uribe AND Freddy for Michael Young. :D:

Just giving you ****. :cool:

I don't specifically remember making that suggestion (I've traded Paulie at least 50 times), but that reads like something I definitely would advocate.

:tongue:

Given how much the Rangers allowed themselves to be fleeced in the McCarthy for Danks/Masset/Rasner deal, though, it does seem like I should have argued for the Sox getting more than just Michael Young! Maybe they could have been convinced to do McCarthy, Uribe and Paulie for Young, Danks, Masset and Rasner. Then Freddy could have been retained, and Danks could have been amazing in the bullpen.

:tongue:

santo=dorf
06-08-2007, 06:21 PM
I don't specifically remember making that suggestion (I've traded Paulie at least 50 times), but that reads like something I definitely would advocate.

:tongue:

Given how much the Rangers allowed themselves to be fleeced in the McCarthy for Danks/Masset/Rasner deal, though, it does seem like I should have argued for the Sox getting more than just Michael Young! Maybe they could have been convinced to do McCarthy, Uribe and Paulie for Young, Danks, Masset and Rasner. Then Freddy could have been retained, and Danks could have been amazing in the bullpen.

:tongue:
Why would we want Michael Young? He's a bad hitter away from that bandbox in Arlington, he isn't that good defensively and his contract that he signed this past offseason was disgusting.

Lip Man 1
06-09-2007, 11:34 AM
Iguchi doesn't appear to be fielding very well this season.

Lip