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View Full Version : Does anyone think this Sox team can make the playoffs?


WhiteSox5187
06-07-2007, 11:20 PM
I'm sure that this thread is going to get me labled a dark cloud or whatever, but really, I'm curious, what does everyone out there think. Can this team turn it around and make up nine games? Or are we dead in the water?

thegooch
06-07-2007, 11:25 PM
Please. This team is in big trouble.

WhiteSox5187
06-07-2007, 11:26 PM
Please. This team is in big trouble.
Yea, I certainly don't like our chances.

cleanwsox
06-07-2007, 11:27 PM
I'll hold out hope for a little longer but in the back of my mind I think this team is done. Too many injuries and a very bad bullpen to overcome this start to the year.

:(:

tyrath25
06-07-2007, 11:27 PM
Hate being negative. And making up the games isn't the issue. It's possible. But not for us...

WhiteSox1983
06-07-2007, 11:27 PM
Naw. Even if the sox did turn things around, the division is too strong to get past 3 solid teams. Oh well.

markopat
06-07-2007, 11:27 PM
I am having serious doubts and I am the eternal optimist. I am so tired of our bullpen giving up runs. I hate waking up in the AM to see that the Tigers and Twins won and we lost...yet again...

uugghhhh.

Navarro's Talent
06-07-2007, 11:31 PM
If the Sox were in a different division, I would say it's possible. In the AL Central, though, I just don't see it happening. The team has fallen behind far too much already, and I just don't see the bullpen improving.

Even if the bats come alive, the team will still have a ton of trouble because of the bullpen. They hit last year and only had third place to show for it because of the pitching.

WhiteSox5187
06-07-2007, 11:32 PM
I am having serious doubts and I am the eternal optimist. I am so tired of our bullpen giving up runs. I hate waking up in the AM to see that the Tigers and Twins won and we lost...yet again...

uugghhhh.
Don't forget the Indians...this team just flat out sucks. It has NO life. There is a lot of baseball to be played and I'm sure at some point in the 1983 season everyone was sounding like this too, but really...This team can't win with Uribe, Mackowiak, Fields and Owens in the same starting lineup. And dont' even get me started on the bullpen.

StillMissOzzie
06-07-2007, 11:34 PM
I'd like to believe that this team can still run off a 9 of 10 game hot streak, but they are making it harder and harder to believe. The bullpen has dug a BIG hole, the replacements are not impressing the hell out of me, and I for one am sick and tired of hearing that the hitting is gonna come around. In fact, on TV today, I heard a comment from DJ that almost sounded like he was throwing in the towel...it was something like, "What if this is one of those years where nothing goes right?"

Another season where, barring some dramatic changes, was done for by Memorial Day. :(: :angry: :whiner:

SMO
:gulp:

Frater Perdurabo
06-07-2007, 11:34 PM
If the Sox are to have any hope, they have to play much better in all phases of the game.

The team is playing atrociously.

The hitting is terrible.

The bullpen is terrible.

The defense is terrible.

Ozzie's management has been terrible.

They have the talent to pull themselves out of this pathetic tailspin. But they must play. Unfortunately, when the slump has gone on this long - and the hitters have been slumping all season - it's starting too look like this could be a season-long slump.

cbotnyse
06-07-2007, 11:36 PM
we still have a lot more games with Detroit and Cleveland, but we do not look like a playoff team right now.

whitesoxfan
06-07-2007, 11:37 PM
The Indians are legit. The Tigers have a great offense with solid pitching. The Twins will be a 3rd place team the whole season. We're worse than all 3 and IMO, it's not even close.

Man, this team didn't have much turnover from the 2006 team that was, at one point, 27 games over .500. Now we're 4 under and it only looks like it's going to get worse.

SoxxoS
06-07-2007, 11:37 PM
The lineup today - if you picked a international fan that just looked at stats...sucked.

A Mackowiak, Owens and Terrero outfield?

A Fields / Cintron left side?

Just bad. We are kind of out of it from really looking at the lineup and realizing - Its just BAD.

Patrick134
06-07-2007, 11:37 PM
The starting pitching is solid. When the bats warm up we'll fly by the tigers and tribe with ease.

WhiteSox5187
06-07-2007, 11:39 PM
The starting pitching is solid. When the bats warm up we'll fly by the tigers and tribe with ease.
There was supposed to be teal there, right? I just have a hard time detecting sarcasm in print is all...

Frater Perdurabo
06-07-2007, 11:40 PM
The starting pitching is solid. When the bats warm up we'll fly by the tigers and tribe with ease.

I hope you're right, but their best hope is that Bud Selig will adopt six-inning games.

Viva Medias B's
06-07-2007, 11:41 PM
Oh, boy. Well, I will tell you this. Right now we're in big trouble. There is no two ways about it. However, I am not going to become a dark cloud and rule the playoffs out of the question. In the last two years, we've seen Houston and Minnesota come back from the dead to reach the postseason. Despite our total suckdom right now, there is no reason to believe we are not capable of doing the same.

oeo
06-07-2007, 11:42 PM
Unless we get a bullpen and our offense gets a spark somehow...not a chance.

kitekrazy
06-07-2007, 11:43 PM
I doubt they will be a .500 team. I think it will be a fire sale come the trade deadline.

kittle42
06-07-2007, 11:45 PM
Are they moving us to the NL Central? Nope. Next question.

Lip Man 1
06-07-2007, 11:45 PM
It would take a miracle of Biblical proportions.

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41TB1RGZR1L._AA240_.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B0000648ZR/ref=dp_image_0/102-1842254-7672116?ie=UTF8&n=130&s=dvd)

"The last miracle I did was the 1969 New York Mets...before that you have to go back to the Red Sea."

Lip

chisoxmike
06-07-2007, 11:45 PM
I'm sure that this thread is going to get me labled a dark cloud or whatever, but really, I'm curious, what does everyone out there think. Can this team turn it around and make up nine games?


No. This is a ****ty team in any division. They're dead, done, and buried.

WhiteSox5187
06-07-2007, 11:47 PM
Oh, boy. Well, I will tell you this. Right now we're in big trouble. There is no two ways about it. However, I am not going to become a dark cloud and rule the playoffs out of the question. In the last two years, we've seen Houston and Minnesota come back from the dead to reach the postseason. Despite our total suckdom right now, there is no reason to believe we are not capable of doing the same.
At this point I dont think you're a dark cloud if you say "The White Sox are not going to make the playoffs." I think that would make you in touch with the present situation.

Cellview22
06-07-2007, 11:48 PM
Nope.. not this year. As long as 5 guys in the lineup belong in AAA and 4 guys in the lineup belong on celebrity fit club, we're not going anywhere.

Oldschoolsoxguy
06-07-2007, 11:51 PM
This is just horse****.Nothing worse than wasted talent.
We flat out ****ing stink.Like Cub stink.And there's no
getting around it.Personally,i can't wait for Kenny to start
making moves and getting rid of our raggedy assed vets.
Let's get a pulse going again for chrissakes.

dcb56
06-07-2007, 11:51 PM
Oh, boy. Well, I will tell you this. Right now we're in big trouble. There is no two ways about it. However, I am not going to become a dark cloud and rule the playoffs out of the question. In the last two years, we've seen Houston and Minnesota come back from the dead to reach the postseason. Despite our total suckdom right now, there is no reason to believe we are not capable of doing the same.

There is no such thing as a dark cloud when the team is under .500, in 4th place, and 9 games off the pace in early June. If we were in the Indians' position and you were doom and gloom, then yes, you would be a "dark cloud," but not with this team the way it's performed.

As for the playoffs, I'm not going to hold my breath while waiting to receive my playoff ticket invoice in the mail, with the terrible bullpen and patchwork offense it's just not going to happen.

chisoxmike
06-07-2007, 11:55 PM
As for the playoffs, I'm not going to hold my breath while waiting to receive my playoff ticket invoice in the mail, with the terrible bullpen and patchwork offense it's just not going to happen.

Dont be surprised if you see that early this year so they can lock people up for 2008 (like the stunt they pulled last year - the only way to renew for next season is to buy playoff tix this year) while there may be a glimmer of hope with the Pollyanna's out there.

lizard6king6
06-08-2007, 12:02 AM
D-Day (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0569226/): War's over, man. Wormer dropped the big one.
Bluto (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000004/): Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
Otter (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001513/): Germans?
Boon (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0726200/): Forget it, he's rolling.
Bluto (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000004/): And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the goin' gets tough...
[thinks hard]
Bluto (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000004/): the tough get goin'! Who's with me? Let's go!
[runs out, alone; then returns]
Bluto (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000004/): What the f&$% happened to the Delta I used to know? Where's the spirit? Where's the guts, huh? "Ooh, we're afraid to go with you Bluto, we might get in trouble." Well just kiss my a$$ from now on! Not me! I'm not gonna take this. Wormer, he's a dead man! Marmalard, dead! Niedermeyer...
Otter (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001513/): Dead! Bluto's right. Psychotic, but absolutely right. We gotta take these b&star#s. Now we could do it with conventional weapons that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part.
Bluto (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000004/): We're just the guys to do it.
D-Day (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0569226/): Let's do it.
Bluto (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000004/): LET'S DO IT!

Ok but realistically Im not giving in until at least all star break, if we still look like this then. THERE IS NO CHANCE!

eriqjaffe
06-08-2007, 12:11 AM
The starting pitching is solid. When the bats warm up we'll fly by the tigers and tribe with ease.Here's hoping the bats will be able to provide the pitchers with 14-run leads, because that's about all this bullpen is capable of holding.

WhiteSox5187
06-08-2007, 12:13 AM
Here's hoping the bats will be able to provide the pitchers with 14-run leads, because that's about all this bullpen is capable of holding.
I'd trust this bullpen with a thirteen run lead. I think Prinz to Logan to Thornton to Bukvich to Jenks would work out.

JB98
06-08-2007, 12:47 AM
Even if we get healthy and the bats heat up, we are three arms short in the bullpen.

No playoffs this year.

chisoxmike
06-08-2007, 12:48 AM
Even if we get healthy and the bats heat up, we are three arms short in the bullpen.

No playoffs this year.

Yeah. At some point, the hitting will be there. Question is, when? But our bullpen is utter ****. There's no fixing it this season, perhaps not even next season. It needs a complete overhaul with the exception of Jenks.

roadrunner
06-08-2007, 12:53 AM
(insert jim mora voice here) playoffs?

thomas35forever
06-08-2007, 12:55 AM
Unless this team can go second-half '83 on us, they'll be playing golf the first week of October.

roadrunner
06-08-2007, 01:07 AM
Unless this team can go second-half '83 on us, they'll be playing golf the first week of October.

Maybe he should bat AJ second?

lumpyspun
06-08-2007, 01:28 AM
No.

guillen4life13
06-08-2007, 01:29 AM
So what's the over/under on the firesale? Buehrle is most definitely gone by the deadline. Dye would probably also get traded, although his season numbers don't exactly jack up his value.

Perhaps this season will be one to drive some key players in their contract years' values down to give the Sox a better chance to re-sign them at reasonable prices(Dye comes to mind here) and they can return to their career norms. Who knows....

WhiteSoxJunkie
06-08-2007, 01:33 AM
I haven't completely given up on the Sox for this season, but I highly doubt this team will make the playoffs. The last time I pretty much knew the Sox wouldn't make the playoffs in June was 2002.

roadrunner
06-08-2007, 01:42 AM
on may 20, 1983 the white sox were 13-20 six games out of first. they were facing the KC Royals. LaRussa inserted Fisk (hitting .173 at the time) into the two hole. fisk went 2 for 5 and the sox won 9-6. fisk stayed in the two hole the rest of the year.

goon
06-08-2007, 01:43 AM
So what's the over/under on the firesale? Buehrle is most definitely gone by the deadline.

I don't necessarily believe this, I think it's just something people are saying to say or maybe they aren't trying to get their hopes up. With this organization's current "pitching first" mindset, I really wouldn't be surprised at all if they re-signed Buehrle... depending on what Mark would agree too.

Though it seems like the smart thing to do, besides re-sign Buehrle, is figure out this lead-off man situation. Even if we lose guys like Dye, Crede or Iguchi, we should have enough offensive firepower behind the lead-off hitter to get him in. It's nice to have a guy at the top of the order consistently setting the table for the lineup.

Beer Can Chicken
06-08-2007, 01:50 AM
Ozzie chose to put in Pukevich to face ARod with bases loaded and 2 outs in the top of the 9th.
Do you really think we can win the division?

It's over.

roadrunner
06-08-2007, 01:59 AM
Pukevich

lolololololololololol

WhiteSox5187
06-08-2007, 05:39 AM
on may 20, 1983 the white sox were 13-20 six games out of first. they were facing the KC Royals. LaRussa inserted Fisk (hitting .173 at the time) into the two hole. fisk went 2 for 5 and the sox won 9-6. fisk stayed in the two hole the rest of the year.
At this point in 1983, how far out of it were we?

As far as Buerhle, of all our prospective free agents, Buerhle is the guy I would try hardest to re-sign followed by Iguchi. As for JD, thanks for 2005.

Johnny Mostil
06-08-2007, 07:47 AM
At this point in 1983, how far out of it were we?


25-31. (Alas, I'm not convinced the teams ahead of them now will fold as badly as the teams ahead of them then did . . .)

Regarding question at hand, I'd like to see a return to .500 before thinking about anything else . . .

BeviBall!
06-08-2007, 08:07 AM
We're chasing 3 teams in our own division, have more people on the DL than my grandfathers softball team, we have one of the worst bullpens ever assembled and our roster of offensive studs either got extremely old, extremely fast or used up all their career years.

Simply put... not a chance.

mjharrison72
06-08-2007, 08:22 AM
This is just horse****.Nothing worse than wasted talent.
We flat out ****ing stink.Like Cub stink.And there's no
getting around it.Personally,i can't wait for Kenny to start
making moves and getting rid of our raggedy assed vets.
Let's get a pulse going again for chrissakes.
Is that you, Ozzie?

MarySwiss
06-08-2007, 09:11 AM
If the Cardinals could win the WS last year, I gotta believe nothing is impossible.

That said, it sure doesn't look good. :(:

FedEx227
06-08-2007, 09:18 AM
Absolutely no way.

If we were playing in the NL Central, no doubt in my mind.

But unfortunately we're playing in the best division in baseball, in the best of the two leagues, and I don't see us catching the Indians or Tigers.

Hitmen77
06-08-2007, 09:19 AM
If this team still looked solid on paper and we were our current number of games back, I'd be hopeful. However, the White Sox are full of holes right now. Amazing from a team that went into the 2006 season about as solid as you can get.

Here's my breakdown of the problem:

Starting Pitching: They have been pretty solid. Probably the only thing about the Sox that even gives me a glimer of hope at this point. Even so, they're not all pitching like all-stars. Bottom line - they are not the problem.

Starting lineup: 1/3 of the lineup is on the DL right now and replaced by AAA or bench players. If - IF - Pods and Erstad are indeed able to return soon and stay healthy, I can see a big turn around for the offense. Even if Crede is out for a while, I think Fields would be acceptable if he's the only rookie/bench player being asked to fill in as an every day starter.

Bench: If the starting lineup returns to near full strength, the bench will look better. Right now, they are being spread thin by having the likes of Mackowiak, Terrero, and Cintron start every day. These guys aren't starters for a reason, but they are good bench players.

Bullpen: As everyone knows, this is the biggest problem that isn't likely to go away anytime soon. KW thought he was putting together a solid bullpen and Sisco, Aardsma, and MacDougal have all blown up in our face. Now even the once reliable Thornton is struggling as if there was some unwritten rule that the Sox have at least one formerly good reliever who now is in trouble. All the Sox have to offer from their farm system is major league washouts like Prinz and Bukvich. NOT GOOD.

Dan Mega
06-08-2007, 09:22 AM
See my sig.

WhiffleBall
06-08-2007, 09:40 AM
When we can field a lineup of our true starters (Pods, Ersted, Dye, Konerko, Iguchi, Uribe, Crede, AJ) for an extended period of time then we have a glimmer of hope. The hitting slumps will end hopefully sooner rather than later. Their time in AAA may improve Aardsma and Mac enough to come back and help out, Prinz and Bukvich are not the answer. IF those things happen then we should be able to at leaast put up a good fight and possibly squeeze into the playoffs.

That said I'm regretting not putting money on the Indians at 20-1 to win the AL Pennant when I was in Vegas in March. I did not want to bet against the Sox.

stacksedwards
06-08-2007, 09:49 AM
LETS GO BEARS!
LETS GO BEARS!
LETS GO BEARS!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/ce/The_Great_Outdoors_%28film%29_Poster.jpg/200px-The_Great_Outdoors_%28film%29_Poster.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:The_Great_Outdoors_%28film%29_Poster.jpg)

harwar
06-08-2007, 09:50 AM
Statistically,our offense is the worst in the majors(unbelieveable),we seem to have the worst bullpen in the Al,and the defense,which has not been bad,is now starting to crack under the strain.
It breaks my heart to see the starting pitchers go out there knowing that they cannot make one mistake.
This ship seems to be taking on water fast and going down by the bow.I'm just wondering how fast will it founder and how deep this thing will go(90 losses?).
It will be interesting to see what moves KW will make to try and make this team competitive next year and years beyond.

soxfan13
06-08-2007, 10:01 AM
I am holding out hope for the playoffs, although that rope is getting thinner everyday and I am a fat guy!!!

ND_Sox_Fan
06-08-2007, 10:09 AM
"Playoffs? Don't talk about playoffs. Are you kidding me? Playoffs? I just hope we can win a game, another game." ~ Jim Mora

Sadly, the last sentence of this quote also applies, but it is baseball and not football, so I expect us to win one or two more games this year.

jabrch
06-08-2007, 10:23 AM
Ozzie chose to put in Pukevich

There is absolutely no reason for that.

Chicken Dinner
06-08-2007, 10:42 AM
Playoffs..........:rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling:

Kilroy
06-08-2007, 11:19 AM
http://www.sny.tv/images/2007/01/05/OmWsiiRt.jpg

Playoffs!??!?!?

jenn2080
06-08-2007, 11:21 AM
What is this playoffs you speak of? We ****ing suck. I don't think we are going to stay about KC let alone make the playoffs.

SBSoxFan
06-08-2007, 11:28 AM
What is this playoffs you speak of? We ****ing suck. I don't think we are going to stay about KC let alone make the playoffs.

Care to wager on that? :smile:

SouthSoxFan
06-08-2007, 01:09 PM
To reach 95 wins, we have to go 69-37 from here (i.e. win 65%). That's highly unlikely the way we are playing. Plus, a third of our remaining games are against CLE/DET/MIN, and another 8 with the Red Sox. At least we're getting a peek at the future, so we can make some smarter decisions about our pending Free Agents.

PKalltheway
06-08-2007, 01:20 PM
It's starting to get kinda scary right now. :(: If they're off to a slow start during April through early May, you can just say "they're starting off slow, they'll heat up." Now it's June, and when it gets to this time of year and you're still off to a slow start, it's starting to go beyond just an early slump. Questions have to be asked.

I'm not giving up on these guys just yet, but our chances for the playoffs seem pretty bleak right now. I don't see these guys pulling what the Twins did last year, or what Oakland did in 2002. On the other hand, there's still time...we'll see...

LET'S GO SOX!!!

Flight #24
06-08-2007, 01:32 PM
Sure, it's possible for them to make the playoffs. But there's no reason to think they will.

At this point, the offense and bullpen have provided no factual support for this team to turn it around and make the necessary run. Any reasons to think they can are based more on hope&faith than actual facts.

Compounding the issue, as noted by many, are the 3 actually good to excellent teams in the division that are ahead of them. At this point, the Sox are putting themselves in position where even a strong turnaround requires near-perfect play in the 2d half to make it happen (see the 2005 Indians).

The real question is: What can Kenny do to make things better for 2007? There ain't much help coming from the farm for next year. So what can he realistically get for Burls/Dye? I think you have to try and resign Iguchi because there aren't many other alternatives (Eckstein?). And while I'd say Crede would arguably be the most valuable trading chip because he's signed for more than this year, his injury kills that prospect.

The only hope for 2007 is IMO that Kenny & JR are willing to hit the FA market and grab some talent. There aren't many other options to that if they want to compete next year, and given the stronger systems in MIN, DET, CLE - even that's not a given.

Scottiehaswheels
06-08-2007, 01:34 PM
Sure, it's possible for them to make the playoffs. But there's no reason to think they will.

At this point, the offense and bullpen have provided no factual support for this team to turn it around and make the necessary run. Any reasons to think they can are based more on hope&faith than actual facts.

Compounding the issue, as noted by many, are the 3 actually good to excellent teams in the division that are ahead of them. At this point, the Sox are putting themselves in position where even a strong turnaround requires near-perfect play in the 2d half to make it happen (see the 2005 Indians).

The real question is: What can Kenny do to make things better for 2008? There ain't much help coming from the farm for next year. So what can he realistically get for Burls/Dye? I think you have to try and resign Iguchi because there aren't many other alternatives (Eckstein?). And while I'd say Crede would arguably be the most valuable trading chip because he's signed for more than this year, his injury kills that prospect.

The only hope for 2008 is IMO that Kenny & JR are willing to hit the FA market and grab some talent. There aren't many other options to that if they want to compete next year, and given the stronger systems in MIN, DET, CLE - even that's not a given.Fixed

Flight #24
06-08-2007, 01:51 PM
Fixed

Yes, thanks. That is indeed what I meant. I do not believe that given the current bullpen, lack of execution, and the competition that 2007 is salvageable with a playoff run.

Also, let me add that another thing Kenny & Ozzie need to use '07 for is to actually get this team executing. If that means benching anyone and everyone who can't or won't, so be it. But for 5+ years we've heard talk about execution and emulating the Twins, but the simplest aspects of that still go unaccomplished with regularity. So apparently they're all talk.

comet2k
06-08-2007, 02:06 PM
I'm with the majority here who think the playoff chances are nearly zero given all the problems the Sox have now, but hope springs eternal. A year ago, the Sox were 36-23, 1.5 games back of the Tigers, and the Twins were 26-33, 11.5 games back. Over the next month, the Sox went 21-8 and the Twins 22-6. I had forgotten how well the Sox played in that stretch. At the All-Star break the Sox were 2 back and the Twins 11 -- and they still won the division.

All that has to happen this year is that the Sox win about 15 games in a row while the three teams ahead of them slow down to .500 ball or less. Then we just have to win two-thirds of the games remaining against the Tigers, Indians and Twins, and then cows have to start flying, and then ...... :smile:

Johnny Mostil
06-08-2007, 02:41 PM
I'm with the majority here who think the playoff chances are nearly zero given all the problems the Sox have now, but hope springs eternal. A year ago, the Sox were 36-23, 1.5 games back of the Tigers, and the Twins were 26-33, 11.5 games back. Over the next month, the Sox went 21-8 and the Twins 22-6. I had forgotten how well the Sox played in that stretch.

I had forgotten about that, too. Unfortunately, remembering that also led me to remember (or calculate) the Sox are 12 games under .500 (59-71) since the ASG break last year.:whiner:

1917
06-08-2007, 02:48 PM
Seems like ever since Ozzie made that comment about Marriotti....we've sucked....

ondafarm
06-08-2007, 02:50 PM
Yes, I think this White Sox team could make the playoffs.

They'd have to make a change though.

All the games against Det, Clev, Minn and BoSox are an advantage, effectively, they count double. The Sox also have only one three game set in the TwinkieDome, which is the biggest house of horrors for the team.

oeo
06-08-2007, 02:55 PM
Yes, I think this White Sox team could make the playoffs.

They'd have to make a change though.

All the games against Det, Clev, Minn and BoSox are an advantage, effectively, they count double. The Sox also have only one three game set in the TwinkieDome, which is the biggest house of horrors for the team.

Yes, ladies and gentleman, Razor Shines is going to lead this team to a World Series title!

Madvora
06-08-2007, 02:56 PM
I had forgotten about that, too. Unfortunately, remembering that also led me to remember (or calculate) the Sox are 12 games under .500 (59-71) since the ASG break last year.:whiner:
It's when they had that super long game against the Red Sox last year, the series right before the All-Star break that killed them. For some reason, ever since then they've been crap.

July 9th, 2006
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/cws/schedule/y2006/2006_day_by_day.jsp

bryPt
06-08-2007, 02:58 PM
no, Unless Rowand Brings more pie, Erstad starts hugging dirt, and Brian Anderson's jet pack gets back up from AAA.

oeo
06-08-2007, 02:58 PM
It's when they had that super long game against the Red Sox last year, the series right before the All-Star break that killed them. For some reason, ever since then they've been crap.

No, that whole series was crap. They were nearly swept until they got to Papelbon and took it 19 innings for the W. I think they just looked good because they were playing the NL Central for a couple of weeks, when in reality, they were not playing well since the end of May.

hose
06-08-2007, 03:00 PM
Right now the Sox could be the worse team in MLB.

If they finish at .500 for the season I would consider it to be an accomplishment.

oeo
06-08-2007, 03:01 PM
Right now the Sox could be the worse team in MLB.

If they finish at .500 for the season I would consider it to be an accomplishment.

Since we have the strongest commodity (starting pitching), I don't think we're the worst. We're up there, though, right now.

Madvora
06-08-2007, 03:03 PM
No, that whole series was crap. They were nearly swept until they got to Papelbon and took it 19 innings for the W. I think they just looked good because they were playing the NL Central for a couple of weeks, when in reality, they were not playing well since the end of May.
You're right. I forgot about that. I went back and threw the link into my original post. Look at their performance from July 7.
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/cws/...day_by_day.jsp

MCHSoxFan
06-08-2007, 03:08 PM
I think that the White Sox will turn this ugly thing around! Just look at 2005/2006. BEFORE the ASB, we played great. However, AFTER the ASB, the team played bad or was in a bit of a slump. Maybe this year, they are doing the exact opposite. Talk back to me on Septmber 30th, 2007 at around 5 PM.

Johnny Mostil
06-08-2007, 03:28 PM
It's when they had that super long game against the Red Sox last year, the series right before the All-Star break that killed them. For some reason, ever since then they've been crap.

July 9th, 2006
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/cws/schedule/y2006/2006_day_by_day.jsp


You could argue that game killed both teams. After it, the Red Sox were 53-33, 3 games up on the Yanks . . .

PKalltheway
06-08-2007, 03:56 PM
Seems like ever since Ozzie made that comment about Marriotti....we've sucked....
Eh, I don't know. The White Sox played their best ball of the year around that time when they were pounding the Reds, Pirates, and Cardinals. It was them and the Tigers neck and neck for quite some time, until the Twins came back and ****ed everything up.

JB98
06-08-2007, 05:46 PM
Since we have the strongest commodity (starting pitching), I don't think we're the worst. We're up there, though, right now.

Well, the Astros have lost 14 out of 17. They are terrible. If they come in and kick our asses, we might as well drown ourselves into Lake Michigan.

Our opponents this weekend really blow, but I have no idea whether we're good enough to beat them.

Frater Perdurabo
06-08-2007, 06:03 PM
If they come in and kick our asses, we might as well drown ourselves into Lake Michigan.

Your sarcastic (yet appropriate) reply made me think that the Sox could continue playing like this yet still make the playoffs if the Twins have to charter a nuke-carrying B-52 as their team plane, and it crashes into Jacobs Field or Comerica Park while the Indians and Tigers are playing (it has to be the Twins plane, because a plane would bounce off the Hump Dome roof).

:o:

Note: please take this as a joke. In no way would I want this to occur. Think of it as theater of the absurd. In fact, the only thing more morbidly absurd than this is the way the Sox are playing.

WhiteSox5187
06-08-2007, 06:21 PM
I dont' think that this is a playoff team, but there is still time to turn it around and it has to happen NOW. If we get swept or lose the series to Houston we will have crossed the point of no return and we will be dead. A sweep of Houston might get these guys excited and all of a sudden they start playing well as we take on the Phillies...but we have to do it NOW. There is no tommorrow any more. We are in the sad state where almost HAVE to win the next six games.

JB98
06-08-2007, 06:23 PM
I dont' think that this is a playoff team, but there is still time to turn it around and it has to happen NOW. If we get swept or lose the series to Houston we will have crossed the point of no return and we will be dead. A sweep of Houston might get these guys excited and all of a sudden they start playing well as we take on the Phillies...but we have to do it NOW. There is no tommorrow any more. We are in the sad state where almost HAVE to win the next six games.

Well, I think we better win tonight. Let's start there.

DickAllen72
06-08-2007, 06:37 PM
The Indians are going to fold like a tent. The Tigers are going to be hot and cold. The Twins are always solid.

I have no idea what the Sox are going to do anymore. There's no explaining why they currently are performing so far under their career norms (unless they all were on the juice and all got off). So if they start playing up to their norms they have a chance. If not, they may not even finish ahead of the The Royals.

tick53
06-08-2007, 06:47 PM
:sopranos "Fuggitaboutit"

Frater Perdurabo
06-08-2007, 06:47 PM
The Indians are going to fold like a tent. The Tigers are going to be hot and cold. The Twins are always solid.

I have no idea what the Sox are going to do anymore. There's no explaining why they currently are performing so far under their career norms (unless they all were on the juice and all got off). So if they start playing up to their norms they have a chance. If not, they may not even finish ahead of the The Royals.

I know that there really is no such thing as a "law of averages," but if there was, it would explain why PK, Dye and Crede all suck this year after their career years in 2006.

WhiteSoxJunkie
06-08-2007, 06:56 PM
A few minutes ago as I was sitting here reading posts, my World Series Champions poster that is hanging on my wall fell. At first, one corner of it was still sticking on the wall so it just kinda swung back and forth a few times before falling onto my bed. I put it back up and 2 minutes later it fell off again, this time landing on the floor instead of my bed. I said to myself "That's not a good sign." :(:

DickAllen72
06-08-2007, 07:00 PM
A few minutes ago as I was sitting here reading posts, my World Series Champions poster that is hanging on my wall fell. At first, one corner of it was still sticking on the wall so it just kinda swung back and forth a few times before falling onto my bed. I put it back up and 2 minutes later it fell off again, this time landing on the floor instead of my bed. I said to myself "That's not a good sign." :(:
No, that's a great sign!!! Don't you see??? It means now that you've let go of 2005, the Sox are free to go on and win it all again in 2007!!!! :bandance: :bandance: :bandance: Holding on to the past is what has been holding back the White Sox. The pennant push now begins tonight! :gulp:

jdm2662
06-08-2007, 07:00 PM
Well, is this team capable of going on a winning streak? Well, lets not forget the 1989 White Sox, the worst team I've ever seen the Sox field, won eight in a row at one point in the season. So, it's certainly possible, but I'm not holding my breath. After losing 6 of 8 to two teams under .500, it doesn't increase my confidence...

Johnny Mostil
06-08-2007, 08:35 PM
Well, the Astros have lost 14 out of 17. They are terrible. If they come in and kick our asses, we might as well drown ourselves into Lake Michigan.

Our opponents this weekend really blow, but I have no idea whether we're good enough to beat them.

The Sox have also lost 14 of their last 17, no?

JB98
06-08-2007, 08:36 PM
The Sox have also lost 14 of their last 17, no?

False. Sox are 6-11 in their last 17.

Johnny Mostil
06-08-2007, 08:56 PM
False. Sox are 6-11 in their last 17.

You're right. For some reason I counted only the the last 14 (in which, unfortunately, they're only 3-11).

wassagstdu
06-08-2007, 09:28 PM
Remember how pathetic the (soon to be World Series Champions) Cardinals looked about this time last year when they played the Sox?

ChicagoHoosier
06-08-2007, 11:13 PM
Remember how pathetic the (soon to be World Series Champions) Cardinals looked about this time last year when they played the Sox?

Were the Cards 9 games out of first place when we did that to them?

JB98
06-08-2007, 11:17 PM
Were the Cards 9 games out of first place when we did that to them?

It's not a good comparison anyway. We have some good clubs ahead of us in the standings. We won't be able to back our way in the way St. Louis did last year.

Another couple weeks, and we should have Pods and Erstad back. Hopefully, we aren't hopelessly buried by that point.

Johnny Mostil
06-08-2007, 11:17 PM
Were the Cards 9 games out of first place when we did that to them?

Nope. They weren't out of first after May 10. They even had a fairly decent record (42-26) when that series opened.

Bulls_Fan
06-08-2007, 11:17 PM
This optimism that things will "just" turn around and the light will go on has to stop. Do people think our bullpen will get better overnight by themselves? Our hitting has been god awful. Now we are battling injuries and have a bunch of kids trying to find their groove out there.

JB98
06-08-2007, 11:19 PM
This optimism that things will "just" turn around and the light will go on has to stop. Do people think our bullpen will get better overnight by themselves? Our hitting has been god awful. Now we are battling injuries and have a bunch of kids trying to find their groove out there.

Optimism? What optimism?

Norberto7
06-08-2007, 11:19 PM
In answer to the thread title...I don't think any team with a bullpen harboring numbers 60, 62, and 63 could even theoretically make the playoffs. Them's spring training numbers for dudes with no shot.

DrewSox56
06-09-2007, 12:03 AM
In answer to the thread title...I don't think any team with a bullpen harboring numbers 60, 62, and 63 could even theoretically make the playoffs. Them's spring training numbers for dudes with no shot.

:rolleyes:

Thanks.

Hitmen77
06-09-2007, 12:13 AM
:tomatoaward

DrewSox56
06-09-2007, 12:14 AM
:tomatoaward

Can we throw any strikes with it?

soxwon
06-09-2007, 12:16 AM
not now
just lookin forward to seeing who we get for the vets in August?
Rebuild next year with Ichiro-Arod-Rowand-Eckstein

MetroPD
06-09-2007, 12:20 AM
http://www.sny.tv/images/2007/01/05/OmWsiiRt.jpg

southside rocks
06-09-2007, 12:49 AM
Make the playoffs?

When, this year??

I don't think this team could make the Little League World Series. :(:

Nellie_Fox
06-09-2007, 12:52 AM
I don't think this team could make the Little League World Series. :(:I absolutely hate this kind of hyperbole. Hate it, hate it, hate it.

southside rocks
06-09-2007, 12:54 AM
I absolutely hate this kind of hyperbole. Hate it, hate it, hate it.

Yeah, well -- sorry, but I was at the game tonight, and it's still smarting. It's one thing to watch it on TV and it's about a hundred times worse to see it live and in person, and by the end of it, hyperbole doesn't really seem that ... hyperbolic.

gobears1987
06-09-2007, 12:58 AM
I hate being a dark cloud and tend to be anti-dark cloud, but I think it might be time to wave the white flag and build the 2008 World Championship team.

IlliniSox4Life
06-09-2007, 04:50 AM
I absolutely hate this kind of hyperbole. Hate it, hate it, hate it.

It's that kind of hyperbole that makes me just want to round every English teacher up in a room and tell them I will kill their children if they ever tell anybody what a hyperbole is ever again.

RCWHITESOX
06-10-2007, 01:06 AM
I'm sure that this thread is going to get me labled a dark cloud or whatever, but really, I'm curious, what does everyone out there think. Can this team turn it around and make up nine games? Or are we dead in the water?

We have a much better chance catching Kansas City. Well their is allways next year. At least the Cubs are in the same sinking boat.

gobears1987
06-10-2007, 01:17 AM
What a bunch of BS. Faith in your team? Bankrupt only me fans :whiner: .

Fanbase needs some stones:angry:.We're still behind the team. We are just being realistic here. This team is not going to the playoffs with our ****ty pen.

Even if the offense does what it should and busts out of its slump, our pen will give away key games.

chisoxfanatic
06-10-2007, 01:21 AM
The thing that I'm scared about is IF the hitting and bullpen start clicking, the starting pitching might start to slide. It's gotta be mojorly stressful to try to carry an entire team like they've been doing virtually all season. I'm surprised they've stayed as strong for so long as they have!

WhiteSox5187
06-10-2007, 01:35 AM
I said in an earlier post that the White Sox were in the sad state that they HAD to win this series and had to sweep Philly. We've lost this season. I think this loss effectively ends our season. It's like in "The Legend of Baggar Vance," "This is getting to be embarrasing." "Oh no sir, it's been embarrasing for quite some time."

rdwj
06-10-2007, 01:44 AM
One thing that's nice about being out early is that we have things other things are going to want and we can shop the best deals. It's time to build for the future and that should be out focus now. Kenny, realistically, started to look forward before the start of the season and now he can put ALL his efforts into getting us better down the road.

soxfan123
06-10-2007, 01:56 AM
The teams in our way are in no unbeatable. In terms of the wild card race, the Tigers are almost as liable as our bullpen, the A's can't hit, and the Twins can't pull another comeback, can they?

We have the pitching to come back, and, mathematically, this team HAS to hit better. The bullpen will figure itself out. If we win, say, 5 in a row (a number that is entirely possible, even in the pessimist's eye, simply because of our starting pitching) we're right back in the wild card race. It's not even July and we're throwing in the towel? This team is WAY better than what they're playing to now and I think everyone on this site knows that.

Now, will this all happen? Realistically, given the history of Chicago baseball, probably not. However, we are IN NO WAY out of this. I personally am far from giving up.

chitownhawkfan
06-10-2007, 04:25 AM
One thing that's nice about being out early is that we have things other things are going to want and we can shop the best deals. It's time to build for the future and that should be out focus now. Kenny, realistically, started to look forward before the start of the season and now he can put ALL his efforts into getting us better down the road.


While I agree in principle, who wants a RF not hitting his body weight? Or how about a 3B who can't stay healthy. We are doubly ****ed on this one, not only are we not going to make the playoffs, but our trade bait stinks something awful.

ClevelandKid
06-10-2007, 10:03 AM
And MoTown will be wild. ALCS will be rematch of NBA ECF.

But look at the bright side. Just imagine how much further out of contention the White Sox would be without Jim Thome.

Magglio says Hi!:booty:

voodoochile
06-10-2007, 10:15 AM
Voodoo says bye!:booty:

Fixed your post, troll...

Jjav829
06-10-2007, 10:20 AM
Magglio says Hi!:booty:

http://images.ibsys.com/2006/0404/8463538_200X150.jpg

Says Hi back. :yup:

IndianWhiteSox
06-10-2007, 10:56 AM
And MoTown will be wild. ALCS will be rematch of NBA ECF.

But look at the bright side. Just imagine how much further out of contention the White Sox would be without Jim Thome.

Magglio says Hi!:booty:


So how's that 43 year title drought doing for you? Also that 59 year World Series drought?

:dtroll:

Your city sucks as much as the history of teams in your city.

viagracat
06-10-2007, 11:40 AM
I hate being a dark cloud and tend to be anti-dark cloud, but I think it might be time to wave the white flag and build the 2008 World Championship team.

The teams in our way are in no unbeatable. In terms of the wild card race, the Tigers are almost as liable as our bullpen, the A's can't hit, and the Twins can't pull another comeback, can they?

We have the pitching to come back, and, mathematically, this team HAS to hit better. The bullpen will figure itself out. If we win, say, 5 in a row (a number that is entirely possible, even in the pessimist's eye, simply because of our starting pitching) we're right back in the wild card race. It's not even July and we're throwing in the towel? This team is WAY better than what they're playing to now and I think everyone on this site knows that.

Now, will this all happen? Realistically, given the history of Chicago baseball, probably not. However, we are IN NO WAY out of this. I personally am far from giving up.

Good posts in a thread going bad...

Been around long enough and seen enough baseball to know the Sox probably are done for 2007, although the occasional surprise surfaces in a long season. However, they have to start showing some kind of life to stay ahead of Kansas City, let alone catch the Tigers or Indians. It's not just the brutal bullpen. The team seems to be just going through the motions and have been for awhile. Never thought I'd see that in a team managed by Ozzie Guillen.

An optimistic goal is to get to .500 by the All-Star break and take it from there. Unfortunately, we're down to this. :(:

Lprof
06-10-2007, 12:07 PM
And MoTown will be wild. ALCS will be rematch of NBA ECF.

But look at the bright side. Just imagine how much further out of contention the White Sox would be without Jim Thome.

Magglio says Hi!:booty:Let me get this straight: You're "ClevlandKid," but you root for Detroit? Could you have possibly picked bigger loser cities? What's the matter, "AkronKid" had already been copyrighted? Yeah, Detroit will win a world championship--just like its hockey and basketball teams did; oh, wait a minute.....Well, there's always the Lions!

Bucky F. Dent
06-10-2007, 12:28 PM
I hold out the slimmest of hopes that the starting pitching will continue to perform solidly, and hopefully improve, that our offense will get healthy and start to click, and that Jenks, Thornton, and one of the arsonists will be able to patch together enough relief work to get us into the wild card spot.

The talent is there to do it. I hope that they can, cuz frankly it is far too early in the summer to start thinking about the pigskin!

downstairs
06-10-2007, 02:12 PM
The major issue is having two teams in front of you for the division and like 6-8 for the wild card.

It's nearly impossible to pass that many teams, because it relies far too much on luck (i.e. games you don't play).

If we're in second place and 10 games behind, sure... it would involve quite a few sweeps of the first place team and at least pacing them on all other games.

Its not so much about "games back" as it is the crowd of teams...

Madscout
06-11-2007, 01:09 AM
The toons just about did it in '05, so we can do it too.

Jurr
06-11-2007, 10:03 AM
Man, man, man. I was away for a week, all over the country, and I had a lot of trouble keeping up with the Sox during that stretch. I saw two games, and they were the win/near collapse against the Yankees and the loss to the Astros after the late tie. Anyway, when I was watching the 'stros game, I was flabbergasted. The team on the field looked like a split squad.

It's my opinion (and just an opinion) that this thing needs to be overhauled, much like the '04 to '05 transition. During '04, players were dealt to get '05 started early. The Contreras trade comes to mind. Anyway, I think it's time to deal some of this veteran talent away and stockpile MLB ready talent. Then, be aggressive during the offseason and get some more batting average, defense, and possibly a little more pitching. The pitching is a big "possibly" because it's so damn hard to find it.

'06 and '07 reminds me so much of '01-'04 that I want to puke. KW needs to get back to the mindset that he bragged about on the WS video. "This is what we wanted to do, and this is how serious we were about it."

Package Dye and Iguchi for a stud pitcher. Trade Buehrle for a strong package of players. Hell, trade Thome if you can get something great for him.

Get this team a great rotation and some bullpen guys, and construct a lineup that will execute and sacrifice itself for the greater good. This team is once again a slow, plodding heavyweight that is getting jabbed to death every damn night. The team is fat and happy, still resting on its '05 laurels. Get us a scrappy team that will execute and pitch, and all will be well.

Don't worry if a guy only has a career high of 15 homers. In the cell, those numbers will increase. I want batting average, OBP, and some speed. We're absolutely retarded if Torii Hunter isn't a priority. Ichiro would be a godsend, as well. Anything would be better than what's on the field right now.

The team philosophy has been the same for a decade now, and only ONE year did we see a change in said philosophy. I'll be damned if the Sox didn't win it all that year.

This team needs an enema, and there are some pieces to deal that can get the overhaul underway. And don't tell me that a rebuild could take many years. Look at Florida. They traded wisely and were pretty damn good quickly, and that's without a strong payroll to back the team. Stockpile talent, let it grow, and spend on players that will come in and compete.

voodoochile
06-11-2007, 10:17 AM
Package Dye and Iguchi for a stud pitcher. Trade Buehrle for a strong package of players. Hell, trade Thome if you can get something great for him.

I'm confused. You want to trade Dye and Iguchi for a stud pitcher (Buehrle) and then trade Buehrle for a strong package of players (Dye and Iguchi). Then you want to trade Thome for something great (Thome).

I like the idea of increasing the OBP and if you can land Ichiro you obviously do it, but the rest seems confusing...

Jurr
06-11-2007, 10:23 AM
I'm confused. You want to trade Dye and Iguchi for a stud pitcher (Buehrle) and then trade Buehrle for a strong package of players (Dye and Iguchi). Then you want to trade Thome for something great (Thome).

I like the idea of increasing the OBP and if you can land Ichiro you obviously do it, but the rest seems confusing...
With Buehrle, I'm thinking about the money involved. I sincerely think that some team is going to try and break the bank for Mark, ala the Zito situation. I also believe that the amount is going to be so much that the Sox would actually hurt themselves trying to match. I love Buehrle. He's my favorite ballplayer on the Sox. Is he worth sacrificing a bunch of other positions for? No. That's the only reason I bring up his name.

With Thome, I'm thinking about multiple players in return.

When I read back on my quote, I could see how that whole thing would be confusing. However, I feel that Buehrle is now a rental, and we could get a great deal in return for a guy that's destined to outprice himself for the Sox.

hose
06-11-2007, 10:25 AM
With 3 solid teams above the Sox in their own division I think any type of playoff hope is a dream at this time. All I want for the rest of the season is the team to give 100% and compete.

I agree with the re-build instead of overhaul.

A Dye trade should bring in some good talent.

Gooch....decide if they want to offer him a contract or not.

Burles should be resigned, probably wont happen. If they can't sign him then a contender will have to give up it's top prospect for him and then some.

CF - free agent/2008
SS- free agent/2008 ....time to let Uribe go and get some .obp/speed/bunting & hit and run skill at the SS position without sacrificing defense

SBSoxFan
06-11-2007, 01:03 PM
The major issue is having two teams in front of you for the division and like 6-8 for the wild card.

It's nearly impossible to pass that many teams, because it relies far too much on luck (i.e. games you don't play).

If we're in second place and 10 games behind, sure... it would involve quite a few sweeps of the first place team and at least pacing them on all other games.

Its not so much about "games back" as it is the crowd of teams...

Well, right now they're in 9th in the wild card, but tied for 7th, with Baltimore and Tampa Bay, in games back. The optimistic way of looking at this is that they are only 2 games out of 4th place. Two of the teams they trail are in their own division, so the Sox could take care of business there. I expect the crowd will begin to thin in the next month +. I'm sure there's plenty here who could provide the alternative, pessimistic view. :D:

lostfan
06-11-2007, 01:10 PM
Just because I may be developing a pessimistic view doesn't mean I plan on going anywhere. After all, I willingly put up with a good decade of ****ty Bears teams.

SBSoxFan
06-11-2007, 01:16 PM
Just because I may be developing a pessimistic view doesn't mean I plan on going anywhere. After all, I willingly put up with a good decade of ****ty Bears teams.

If that was in response to my post, I didn't suggest that you were (going anywhere). It's just that the pessimism level isn't always justified. Nor is the optimism level. :wink:

graham5
06-11-2007, 03:43 PM
I completely agree with Jurr in that we should trade Buerhle. Apart from Paulie he's my favourite player, but I just don't think we can justify giving him the huge fat contract that he will be looking for.

I also agree with the comment that the only year we changed our team philosophy we had a pretty damn good season. Bring back Ozzie ball, Ozzie!

lostfan
06-11-2007, 03:45 PM
If that was in response to my post, I didn't suggest that you were (going anywhere). It's just that the pessimism level isn't always justified. Nor is the optimism level. :wink:
It wasn't really in response to your post, it was more of a general statement that your post prompted me to say for some reason. :cool:

Flight #24
06-11-2007, 03:55 PM
I completely agree with Jurr in that we should trade Buerhle. Apart from Paulie he's my favourite player, but I just don't think we can justify giving him the huge fat contract that he will be looking for.

I also agree with the comment that the only year we changed our team philosophy we had a pretty damn good season. Bring back Ozzie ball, Ozzie!

Not to single you out, but I've seen a lot of comments like this. I'm curious exactly who you'd anticipate using that cash on or who is "worth it"? I ask because given salary inflation, it seems like paying $16-18m/yr for Mark is exactly what's in line with the market and that while there are better pitchers, when they come available they're going to be pushing $20M/yr (or more - see Santana in a yr or 2). Good but not stellar hitters are also pushing $14-15M (See Carlos Lee, JD Drew).

So you're either going to
a) Spend on a guy or 2 like that in both the rotation and lineup
b) Do without guys like that and go with a team of mediocre guys hoping one busts out (ala Dye)
c) Go with youth

The problem with b) is as we've seen the past 2 years - sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't, and when it doesn't you're in bad shape. The problem with c) is that the Sox minor league system isn't exactly brimming with high-ceiling position players.

To me, the makeup of the team now (lots of potential young pitchers, a couple of good to better position prospects most of whom are OFs) lends itself to resigning Buehrle (longterm rotation of Burls, Garland, 3 youngsters) and making a bigname FA signing (replacing Dye, Crede, etc and plugging in Fields at 3B). Otherwise, you're left hoping that you get production out of Sweeney/Anderson/Owens AND Fields AND that your Catallanotto or equivalent produces - and them's long odds.

slavko
06-11-2007, 03:56 PM
Wait 'till two years ago.

MRM
06-11-2007, 04:21 PM
I think this loss effectively ends our season.

yep...that was the one that ended it. May as well forfeit those ONE HUNDRED AND THREE games that remain.

I've never seen so many chicken little's in my life. Do you people give up on EVERYTHING so easily?

sox1970
06-11-2007, 04:31 PM
yep...that was the one that ended it. May as well forfeit those ONE HUNDRED AND THREE games that remain.

I've never seen so many chicken little's in my life. Do you people give up on EVERYTHING so easily?

Considering the offense and bullpen both suck, the division is so good, and that they probably have to play .667 baseball the rest of the way---yes, it's over.

lostfan
06-11-2007, 04:33 PM
Chicken Little? You can't really fault someone for yelling the sky is falling when chunks of it are hitting them in the back of the head.

MRM
06-11-2007, 04:53 PM
Considering the offense and bullpen both suck, the division is so good, and that they probably have to play .667 baseball the rest of the way---yes, it's over.

The division is so good? That's an "on paper" myth. Only two teams in the division are currently above .500. The Sox, despite an absolutely horrid couple of weeks, are only two games behind the Twins. The Indians have played way over their head at home thus far. No way they continue to win .750 at home for the entire season, they are sub-.500 on the road. Both the Indians and the Tigers have serious bullpen flaws of their own.

The central is no where near as good as the pundits would have you believe, and it's not going to take 95 wins to win this division this year.

MRM
06-11-2007, 04:56 PM
Chicken Little? You can't really fault someone for yelling the sky is falling when chunks of it are hitting them in the back of the head.

The Yankees are 9.5 GB of Boston. Are you ready to hand the East to the Red Sox, too? On June 11th?

sox1970
06-11-2007, 05:07 PM
The division is so good? That's an "on paper" myth. Only two teams in the division are currently above .500. The Sox, despite an absolutely horrid couple of weeks, are only two games behind the Twins. The Indians have played way over their head at home thus far. No way they continue to win .750 at home for the entire season, they are sub-.500 on the road. Both the Indians and the Tigers have serious bullpen flaws of their own.

The central is no where near as good as the pundits would have you believe, and it's not going to take 95 wins to win this division this year.

Let's be very generous and say it will take 90 wins to get the wildcard. The Sox would still have to go 63-40. I don't even they are capable of that. We're talking about a team that has played .449 baseball over the last 136 games. They just aren't a very good baseball team.

As for good division/bad division--ok, I'll concede to you it may not be as good as advertised because the Twins and White Sox are average teams. The Tigers and Indians are doing very well, and both will probably end up in the playoffs.

sox1970
06-11-2007, 05:07 PM
The Yankees are 9.5 GB of Boston. Are you ready to hand the East to the Red Sox, too? On June 11th?

Yes

MRM
06-11-2007, 05:21 PM
Yes

I've watched way too much baseball to concede anything on June 11th. The White Sox, Twins, and Yankees are all a good two week stretch away from contending.

MRM
06-11-2007, 05:25 PM
We're talking about a team that has played .449 baseball over the last 136 games.

No we aren't. We are talking about a team that has played .458 baseball for 59 games. With a multitude of injuries.

Last years team was entirely different and has absolutely no bearing on this year.

WhiteSox5187
06-11-2007, 05:45 PM
I mean, it is still within the realm of possiblity that this team comes back, but really they haven't shown me ANYTHING. They are so banged up and I don't think an outfield with Terrero and Mackowiak as starters is an outfield that will lead you to the playoffs. You're right though that a two week winning streak will get us back into contention but I haven't seen any signs that this team is capable of putting together a two week winning streak. So far it is usually that they will win one game and then lose the next five.

russ99
06-11-2007, 05:51 PM
Anything's possible... :D: Look what the Twins did last season.

Though we'd probably need to make a few deals to shore up the pen/outfield and/or get Crede, Pods & Erstad healthy.

I still think this team has a decent run left in them this season. The wild card is certainly within reach as long as they stay with in 6-8 games by the All-Star break.

I liked the spirit of the team yesterday, and as long as they play loose a return to .500 baseball is quite likely. After that, we'll see.

sox1970
06-11-2007, 06:20 PM
No we aren't. We are talking about a team that has played .458 baseball for 59 games. With a multitude of injuries.

Last years team was entirely different and has absolutely no bearing on this year.

If you want to believe the injuries have made a big difference, that's your opinion. This team just doesn't have the horses.

lostfan
06-11-2007, 06:25 PM
The Yankees are 9.5 GB of Boston. Are you ready to hand the East to the Red Sox, too? On June 11th?
It'd be different if the Yankees weren't showing signs of life, which I can't say for the White Sox. The Sox are only a handful of games from contention, but the team isn't rising or treading water... they're falling and digging a bigger hole. I want the Sox to contend as much as anyone, but after 2 1/2 months of terrible baseball and saying repeatedly "these guys will get better" and not having it happen, I don't have much reason to believe it will. Of course it's theoretically possible... hell, it's possible that the Royals can storm ahead and take the wild card. But realistically? No.

DickAllen72
06-11-2007, 06:29 PM
The division is so good? That's an "on paper" myth. Only two teams in the division are currently above .500. The Sox, despite an absolutely horrid couple of weeks, are only two games behind the Twins. The Indians have played way over their head at home thus far. No way they continue to win .750 at home for the entire season, they are sub-.500 on the road. Both the Indians and the Tigers have serious bullpen flaws of their own.

The central is no where near as good as the pundits would have you believe, and it's not going to take 95 wins to win this division this year.
Thank you.

Lprof
06-11-2007, 08:14 PM
It'd be different if the Yankees weren't showing signs of life, which I can't say for the White Sox. The Sox are only a handful of games from contention, but the team isn't rising or treading water... they're falling and digging a bigger hole. I want the Sox to contend as much as anyone, but after 2 1/2 months of terrible baseball and saying repeatedly "these guys will get better" and not having it happen, I don't have much reason to believe it will. Of course it's theoretically possible... hell, it's possible that the Royals can storm ahead and take the wild card. But realistically? No.
I agree completely. To me, the most ominous sign is that literally none of the minor league call-ups is doing squat, even though some were highly touted. For once, I would like not to have to invoke the Crede/Ventura mantra, that kids can start off bad and then get better. Of course, in some cases that will be true. But for some it won't--Borchard, Anderson, Ruffcorn, etc.--and how long before you decide a guy is a bust? For once, I would like a kid to get called up and actually live up to the hype we have been getting for years--Unless, that is, they are all like McCarthy before he was traded: You get the hype until they're traded, then they're called journeymen. Our farm system seems to have nobody in it who is ready to help. As for position players, there hasn't been anyone since Rowand and Crede, I think. It is a sad day when the Cubs can bring up Theriot and Pie, and the Sox have a dry hole at the upper minor leagues.

Jurr
06-11-2007, 08:59 PM
Trouble, trouble, trouble.
I've already entered the attitude with this team that I'm in it to enjoy watching ball games, and I hope they entertain me more than they don't.

If you think this team is going to the playoffs or the WS, you're going to be disappointed. Just enjoy watching games and seeing how this team will shape up for the future. Beer helps.

Sox fans are a smart enough gang to know when big things just aren't in the cards. This team is just too flawed to expect a miraculous 10 game winning streak and three months of .700 ball to get the playoff berth.

Lprof
06-11-2007, 09:31 PM
Trouble, trouble, trouble.
I've already entered the attitude with this team that I'm in it to enjoy watching ball games, and I hope they entertain me more than they don't.

If you think this team is going to the playoffs or the WS, you're going to be disappointed. Just enjoy watching games and seeing how this team will shape up for the future. Beer helps.

Sox fans are a smart enough gang to know when big things just aren't in the cards. This team is just too flawed to expect a miraculous 10 game winning streak and three months of .700 ball to get the playoff berth.
That's fine, but can you actually enjoy what you're watching? The hitters are in a trance; the fielding is inconsistent; the baserunning is often dumb, and the bullpen is indescribable. It's almost like it's 1969 all over again. Unbelievable. Hopefully, it will change soon, but the longer it lasts, the more pessimistic I get.

Jurr
06-11-2007, 09:37 PM
That's fine, but can you actually enjoy what you're watching? The hitters are in a trance; the fielding is inconsistent; the baserunning is often dumb, and the bullpen is indescribable. It's almost like it's 1969 all over again. Unbelievable. Hopefully, it will change soon, but the longer it lasts, the more pessimistic I get.
Well, I really have stopped enjoying watching this roster of fat and happy veterans throw their arms up in surrender. I'm hoping that some big roster shakeup will come and a bunch of young and hungry talent can learn and grow before our eyes.

JB98
06-11-2007, 09:45 PM
Well, I really have stopped enjoying watching this roster of fat and happy veterans throw their arms up in surrender. I'm hoping that some big roster shakeup will come and a bunch of young and hungry talent can learn and grow before our eyes.

I'm tired of our veterans just as you are. But I also shudder to think of our young players playing at the big-league level everyday. All of our callups have looked overmatched and/or scared and/or intimidated.

DickAllen72
06-11-2007, 10:02 PM
It looks like we're back to the days when the "Crosstown Classic" is important again. I hate that.

MRM
06-11-2007, 10:15 PM
If you want to believe the injuries have made a big difference, that's your opinion.

4/9ths of the opening day lineup has missed significant time due to injury, including both guys capable of leading off. Additionally, several guys, including Thome, Crede, and Dye have tried to play through injuries when they had no business out there to begin with. And that's not even counting the backup catcher opening the season on the DL. That's not opinion, that's fact.

No team could thrive with so many key injuries so early in the year. Whether you want to believe it or not, those injuries also have a trickle down effect on the other hitters. Everyone sees more fastballs when pods is on 1st. Konerko and Dye see better pitches when Thome is on. AJ was forced to play so often at the beginning of the year his tongue had to be dragging there for a while.

Maybe it's time for a "fire herm schneider" thread to go along with the fire Ozzie and fire Walker threads. :D:

Jurr
06-11-2007, 10:18 PM
4/9ths of the opening day lineup has missed significant time due to injury, including both guys capable of leading off. Additionally, several guys, including Thome, Crede, and Dye have tried to play through injuries when they had no business out there to begin with. And that's not even counting the backup catcher opening the season on the DL. That's not opinion, that's fact.

No team could thrive with so many key injuries so early in the year. Whether you want to believe it or not, those injuries also have a trickle down effect on the other hitters. Everyone sees more fastballs when pods is on 1st. Konerko and Dye see better pitches when Thome is on. AJ was forced to play so often at the beginning of the year his tongue had to be dragging there for a while.

Maybe it's time for a "fire herm schneider" thread to go along with the fire Ozzie and fire Walker threads. :D:
Nah. The guys that are hurt are guys that have had histories of injury problems. In 2005, the guys with injury histories stayed relatively healthy, minus Frank. It was a blessing.
Injuries are not what's screwing up this team.

MRM
06-11-2007, 10:20 PM
Well, I really have stopped enjoying watching this roster of fat and happy veterans throw their arms up in surrender.

That has to be the most disrespectful thing I've seen in a while. If you truly believe these guys don't care, or are content with losing, you're clueless. These are some very high character guys you are accusing of jaking it. And the one low character guy, by some accounts, is more pissed than anyone about the losing.

By ALL accounts these guys have been working as hard as they ever have trying to right the ship. For you to accuse them of not caring is pathetic and shameful.

MRM
06-11-2007, 10:50 PM
Nah. The guys that are hurt are guys that have had histories of injury problems. In 2005, the guys with injury histories stayed relatively healthy, minus Frank. It was a blessing.
Injuries are not what's screwing up this team.

Huh? First you say "the guys who are hurt are usually hurt", then you say "in '05 the guys who were usually hurt didn't get hurt", and you conclude from this that injuries are NOT a reason for this years struggles?

I'm interested in knowing how you can make an argument FOR something only to conclude AGAINST it based on your own argument.

Hitmen77
06-11-2007, 10:58 PM
The Yankees are 9.5 GB of Boston. Are you ready to hand the East to the Red Sox, too? On June 11th?

The Tigers and Indians have looked less than invincible at times. If only the Sox could wake up from their coma, a run at those teams would be possible.

WhiteSox5187
06-12-2007, 01:43 AM
That has to be the most disrespectful thing I've seen in a while. If you truly believe these guys don't care, or are content with losing, you're clueless. These are some very high character guys you are accusing of jaking it. And the one low character guy, by some accounts, is more pissed than anyone about the losing.

By ALL accounts these guys have been working as hard as they ever have trying to right the ship. For you to accuse them of not caring is pathetic and shameful.
I agree with you a hundred and ten percent. Poor Paulie has to be grinding sawdust out of the bat, Thome came back early from an injury and JD is playing while his knee is probably shot. I love the hell out of those guys and they really are grinding, but unforunatley they're not getting the results. If this team can get back to 100% healthy, they could do some serious damage...but if I was a lefty and could throw 90+ I'd be me in the majors somewhere. It's just not going to happen. It's sad. It really is. This is one of the most disappointing seasons I can recall, right up there with 1995. This team doesn't have to blown up, but I think we need to move some guys. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the guys I keep our Paulie, Thome, AJ, Jenks, Danks, Garland and Buerhle. When you can build around 3/5ths of your rotation and have three big guys to build a lineup around (though AJ is not a solid three or four hitter) you're ok for 2008. So they should try and re-sign Buerhle, and see what they can get for the rest of our guys. I am not so sure if Kenny will do that though.

Law11
06-12-2007, 11:08 AM
Anythings possible but i dont see it happening. Going back to last year we all were "waiting" for a run that has never come. What makes anyone think this will change without something drastic happening to the makeup of this team.

mzol11
06-12-2007, 01:27 PM
The answer is no. That's all there is to it.

CLR01
06-12-2007, 01:42 PM
Any day now, I can feel it. Once it warms up they are going on a tear.

itsnotrequired
06-12-2007, 01:44 PM
Any day now, I can feel it. Once it warms up they are going on a tear.

Yeah but it's a dry heat.

CLR01
06-12-2007, 01:47 PM
Yeah but it's a dry heat.

That's because we don't have Ersty sweating all over everything increasing the moisture in the air. :(:

itsnotrequired
06-12-2007, 01:51 PM
That's because we don't have Ersty sweating all over everything increasing the moisture in the air. :(:

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/5318/5634or1.jpgOptimus Grind: /sweats for the lemonade, sweats for the tea

Lprof
06-12-2007, 06:25 PM
I'm tired of our veterans just as you are. But I also shudder to think of our young players playing at the big-league level everyday. All of our callups have looked overmatched and/or scared and/or intimidated.

New slogan: "The kids can't play."

ChiSoxFan7
06-12-2007, 08:26 PM
no. You can't win a championship in the first half but you sure can lose it. And i personally believe that the whitesox's bullpen, anemic batting, and injuries give us a 2 maybe 3 hundreth percent of making the playoffs.

But to jump of the this team is horrible bandwagon i am really looking foward to see what crazy trades KW can cook up at the deadline. The sox have a lot of older talent that may just need a change of scenery to liven up (i.e. Thome or Dye, though i hope not:(:) kinda like abreu did last year. If the fire sale comes then we'll have to live throught it. Untill then i'll still be strapping it in and hunkering down.

Here's to a respectable finish and an interesting fire sale:gulp:

Nellie_Fox
06-13-2007, 02:49 AM
no. You can't win a championship in the first half but you sure can lose it. And i personally believe that the whitesox's bullpen, anemic batting, and injuries give us a 2 maybe 3 hundredth percent of making the playoffs. Seriously? Do you even understand the math of what you just said? Even two or three percent is very low; two or three hundredths of a percent is just insane. .0003 probability is what you're talking about.

But to jump of the this team is horrible bandwagon i am really looking foward to see what crazy trades KW can cook up at the deadline.I have no idea what you are trying to say here. I suspect that some spelling and punctuation might clarify this, but I can't figure it out.

ChiSoxFan7
06-13-2007, 12:19 PM
yeah i knew that it was an extremely low percent. I just don't see it happening whatsoever but nothing is impossible so that's why i put the extremely low number of .0003 percent....stupid i know but...


and about the second part i meant to put....to jump of the "this team is horrible, woe is the whitesox nation" bandwagon.... I can't wait to see what will happen at the deadline. I really think KW will cook up some crazy trades so i think it'll be exciting to see those.

sorry about the confusion. I didn't really proofread.:redface:

russ99
06-13-2007, 12:21 PM
It looks like we're back to the days when the "Crosstown Classic" is important again. I hate that.

Yeah, it sure seems that way. I hope we can at least beat the stinking Cubs next weekend.

Gammons Peter
06-13-2007, 01:28 PM
The white flag trade can't happen soon enough for me. That will give us "hope" for the future, right now there is no hope.

Joker
06-13-2007, 03:57 PM
Playoffs? I just hope we don't fall behind the Royals.

GoSox2K3
06-14-2007, 09:26 AM
Yeah, it sure seems that way. I hope we can at least beat the stinking Cubs next weekend.

I hate the Crosstown games even when the Sox are doing well - but I'm really not looking forward to next weekend. Unless there's some turnaround in the next 8 days, we may be suffering a major embarrassment next weekend.

assrevolution
06-14-2007, 11:39 AM
I'm sure we'll sweep the Cubs outscoring them 30-4 and then lose 9 of 11 to Tampa, KC, and Baltimore in the following 2 weeks. I'll hear my Sox buddies talking trash when they really should just be ashamed.

Chicken Dinner
06-14-2007, 11:41 AM
bottom-feeder

One entry found.

bottom-feeder

Main Entry: bot·tom–feed·er : Function: noun Date: 1885 1 : a fish that feeds at the bottom (http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bottom) 2 : one that is of the lowest status or rank 3 : an opportunist who seeks quick profit usually at the expense of others or from their misfortune

FedEx227
06-14-2007, 11:50 AM
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/5318/5634or1.jpgOptimus Grind: /sweats for the lemonade, sweats for the tea

http://www.bevnet.com/images/reviews/arnoldpalmer/arnie-can.jpg ??

WhiteSox5187
06-15-2007, 10:22 PM
After tonight I'm going official, anyone who thinks this team will make the playoffs either needs to be institutionalized or going into rehab.

CLR01
06-15-2007, 10:29 PM
After tonight I'm going official, anyone who thinks this team will make the playoffs either needs to be institutionalized or going into rehab.

Dude, just wait until it gets a little warmer. Pods will save this season for us.

DrewSox56
06-15-2007, 10:33 PM
Dude, just wait until it gets a little warmer. Pods will save this season for us.

Not unless he's been learning how to throw relief all this time.

Cuck the Fubs
06-15-2007, 10:36 PM
There is no way this team reaches the playoffs.........period

Frater Perdurabo
06-15-2007, 10:48 PM
Pods will save this season for us.

I thought Grinderstad would. Either that or trade Thome back for Rowand.

A Pods, Grinderstad, Rowand OF would hit 200 HRs, steal 200 bases and score 600 runs.

The pitchers must not worry, they also would catch every ball hit in the air, including those hit all the way to the concourse. In fact, leave RF open and put both Grinderstad and Rowand in CF. They both hustle so much that they can catch laser line drives down the RF line on the fly. They communicate through telepathy!

They also would combine their powers to make pitches out of the strike zone magically curve back into the zone, or make opposing hitters swing at pitches out of the zone. Can you imagine a sinkercurve that rises at the last minute? Or a 95 MPH eephus strike from MacDougal?

Don't even bother fielding 3B, SS or 2B. With AJ and PK to go along with the grindiest outfield every, we can't lose!

Leading the way, Team Beige will save the day! :kukoo:

Cellview22
06-15-2007, 10:51 PM
"Don't stop believin', hold on to that feeling, street light, peoplllllllllle, Don't stop believin', hold on to that fee."

California Sox
06-15-2007, 11:14 PM
A Pods, Grinderstad, Rowand OF would hit 200 HRs, steal 200 bases and score 600 runs.

Only one man can do that: Chuck Norris.

kitekrazy
06-15-2007, 11:48 PM
After tonight I'm going official, anyone who thinks this team will make the playoffs either needs to be institutionalized or going into rehab.

I think we need to change this thread to "Does anyone think the Sox can win 70 games?"

Soxman219
06-16-2007, 01:13 PM
Unless the Twins, Indians, Tigers, even the Royals get into deep losing streaks like we are right now, not a chance. But we can't give up just yet.

Remember this saying,

Setbacks are setups for comebacks:cool:

Go White Sox!