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Pete_SSAC
03-31-2002, 08:17 PM
Back when we would have our bad outing, this board would be filled with posts about how we're going to be horrible, how much our pitching/defense/coaching sucks, but yet, the last three games of ST, nothing. Wanna know why?

Wright had a good game.
Our Bullpen threw lights out in another game
And Garland put on a clinic against a team that isn't exacttly offensivly weak.

I have this theory, we hate to bring up the good things. We would rather bitch and moan than cheer and praise.

But, that's just how I see it.

- Pete

doublem23
03-31-2002, 08:22 PM
Sounds like your bitching and moaning about how much we like to bitch and moan. :smile:

Mathew
03-31-2002, 08:22 PM
I've seen some change their tune today, but I don't think people are overly pessimistic.

Jerry_Manuel
03-31-2002, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by Pete_SSAC
Back when we would have our bad outing, this board would be filled with posts about how we're going to be horrible, how much our pitching/defense/coaching sucks, but yet, the last three games of ST, nothing. I have this theory, we hate to bring up the good things. We would rather bitch and moan than cheer and praise.


I'll say it till I'm blue in the face Pete, the Sox will finish in 2nd.

Prove me wrong.

Pete_SSAC
03-31-2002, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
Sounds like your bitching and moaning about how much we like to bitch and moan. :smile:

Hey, I never said I wasn't a hypocrite.

- Pete

RedPinStripes
03-31-2002, 08:24 PM
Good point pete. now i'll feel guilty talking about how impressed i was with garland today. :D:

Pete_SSAC
03-31-2002, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


I'll say it till I'm blue in the face Pete, the Sox will finish in 2nd.

Prove me wrong.

Ok, prove yourself to be right.

- Pete

czalgosz
03-31-2002, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


I'll say it till I'm blue in the face Pete, the Sox will finish in 2nd.

Prove me wrong.

LOL! We can't prove you wrong until the Sox clinch the division.

I know that you aren't happy with the way that the team is put together, that you think the Sox need a veteran pitcher, but you don't realize how bad the rest of the AL central truly is. The Twins were a fluke team last year that did nothing to improve themselves.

OEO Magglio
03-31-2002, 08:41 PM
The Twins were not a fluke, they have a pretty good team. When Christian Guzman played they won, when he didn't play they lost, so if he stays healthy the Twins will be good. But the Sox will still win the division.

doublem23
03-31-2002, 08:43 PM
This is pretty much the exact same team that had a 2nd half winning percentage of .400, so pardon me if I'm not exactly frightened by the Twinkies.

czalgosz
03-31-2002, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by OEO Magglio
The Twins were not a fluke, they have a pretty good team. When Christian Guzman played they won, when he didn't play they lost, so if he stays healthy the Twins will be good. But the Sox will still win the division.

Fluke performances by the Twins last season -

- Doug Mientkiewicz - He won't ever put together an .851 OPS again.

- Joe Mays - He's decent, but 17 wins and a 3.16 ERA? Career year.

Those two players alone, combined with nice stretches by guys like LaTroy Hawkins and A.J. Pierzynski, were what propelled them as far as they did.

Their offense right now is Cristian Guzman and Corey Koskie, who are two very nice players to have, but they're not franchise players. They'll miss Matt Lawton.

They aren't bad - they could be a .500 team if they hit on all cylinders, but to say they're better than the Sox is a stretch.

Jerry_Manuel
03-31-2002, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
LOL! We can't prove you wrong until the Sox clinch the division.

I know that you aren't happy with the way that the team is put together, that you think the Sox need a veteran pitcher, but you don't realize how bad the rest of the AL central truly is. The Twins were a fluke team last year that did nothing to improve themselves.

True, my comment was more directed at Pete. I'll say this team finishes in 2nd no matter if their in the midst of a 10 game winning streak, or if their in a losing streak. Pete was implying that because the pitching has improved the past few days that nobody is bitching about it.

I like the team. The offense will be there and the pitching isn't that bad. I just have no confidence in the Sox as a team.

cheeses_h_rice
03-31-2002, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by Pete_SSAC
Back when we would have our bad outing, this board would be filled with posts about how we're going to be horrible, how much our pitching/defense/coaching sucks, but yet, the last three games of ST, nothing. Wanna know why?

Wright had a good game.
Our Bullpen threw lights out in another game
And Garland put on a clinic against a team that isn't exacttly offensivly weak.

I have this theory, we hate to bring up the good things. We would rather bitch and moan than cheer and praise.

But, that's just how I see it.

- Pete

Yeah, isn't it great how the Sox have looked competent for a whopping 12% of Spring Training?

Pete_SSAC
03-31-2002, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice


Yeah, isn't it great how the Sox have looked competent for a whopping 12% of Spring Training?

No, but it's great to see the team do well outside of AZ, and at the end where the momentum is shifting towards Opening day, rather than have a great start, and fall flat on our face at the end.

- Pete

KempersRS
03-31-2002, 09:23 PM
Originally posted by Pete_SSAC
Back when we would have our bad outing, this board would be filled with posts about how we're going to be horrible, how much our pitching/defense/coaching sucks, but yet, the last three games of ST, nothing. Wanna know why?

Wright had a good game.
Our Bullpen threw lights out in another game
And Garland put on a clinic against a team that isn't exacttly offensivly weak.

I have this theory, we hate to bring up the good things. We would rather bitch and moan than cheer and praise.

But, that's just how I see it.

- Pete

It's Easter...

Lip Man 1
03-31-2002, 10:27 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but the Sox gave up 10 runs in two games against Milwaukee. Let's see...that averages out to 5 runs per game.

Not going to win you many games is it?

Lip

Pete_SSAC
03-31-2002, 10:32 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Correct me if I'm wrong but the Sox gave up 10 runs in two games against Milwaukee. Let's see...that averages out to 5 runs per game.

Not going to win you many games is it?

Lip

Hey, I'll be honest, Rauch had probelms, but the bullpen shut everything down after the 5th or so. Also, Wright had a good outing.

Hey, at least it wasn't 10 runs a game.

- Pete, who see the sky, and it's still up there.

Daver
03-31-2002, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Correct me if I'm wrong but the Sox gave up 10 runs in two games against Milwaukee. Let's see...that averages out to 5 runs per game.

Not going to win you many games is it?

Lip

I'll take 5 runs a game and an offense that can put up double digits,that will win enough for me.
Look at the positive and not dwell on the negative.

czalgosz
03-31-2002, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by daver


I'll take 5 runs a game and an offense that can put up double digits,that will win enough for me.
Look at the positive and not dwell on the negative.

Here's a positive for you -

pitching stats for Friday, Saturday, Sunday, throwing out outings by Majewski, Malone, Wylie, Kohlmeier (guys who aren't on the 25-man roster)

19 1/3 IP, 16 H, 9 runs (all earned), 7 BB, 16 K, 3 HR, 4.19 ERA

Rauch's outing alone accounts for 4 runs, 4 hits, 4 walks, 1 K, and 1 HR. Outside of that, Sox pitcher's ERA was 2.50.

I'll take that.

RedPinStripes
04-01-2002, 12:25 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Correct me if I'm wrong but the Sox gave up 10 runs in two games against Milwaukee. Let's see...that averages out to 5 runs per game.

Not going to win you many games is it?

Lip

Is the glass haf full or half empty with you? What if the Sox average 6 runs a game? That's very possible.

RedPinStripes
04-01-2002, 12:27 AM
Originally posted by czalgosz


Here's a positive for you -

pitching stats for Friday, Saturday, Sunday, throwing out outings by Majewski, Malone, Wylie, Kohlmeier (guys who aren't on the 25-man roster)

19 1/3 IP, 16 H, 9 runs (all earned), 7 BB, 16 K, 3 HR, 4.19 ERA

Rauch's outing alone accounts for 4 runs, 4 hits, 4 walks, 1 K, and 1 HR. Outside of that, Sox pitcher's ERA was 2.50.

I'll take that.

Don't bother. The Sox are a terrible team, terrible organization and have no chance of winning ****.

Chisox_cali
04-01-2002, 12:31 AM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes


Don't bother. The Sox are a terrible team, terrible organization and have no chance of winning ****.

Pretty much sums up a lot of the feelings around here as of late in my opinion. :whiner: :whiner:

Chisox_cali
04-01-2002, 12:50 AM
Originally posted by Chisox_cali


Pretty much sums up a lot of the feelings around here as of late in my opinion. :whiner: :whiner:

See I even changed my Sig to reflect my feelings :smile:

RedPinStripes
04-01-2002, 01:01 AM
Originally posted by Chisox_cali


Pretty much sums up a lot of the feelings around here as of late in my opinion. :whiner: :whiner:

It makes me sick too.

Pete_SSAC
04-01-2002, 01:07 AM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes


It makes me sick too.

Hear hear! I'm sick of all this gripin' going on, and I love how people will just make glib remarks, and not really back them up. Now granted, Our spring wasn't great, but look at the last few games, and tell me that honestly things don't look better. (And back it up.)

- Pete

Nellie_Fox
04-01-2002, 01:14 AM
I've been a baseball fan for a very long time. One thing I've learned is that spring training results mean nothing, nothing, about how the regular season will go.

FarWestChicago
04-01-2002, 01:17 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
I've been a baseball fan for a very long time. One thing I've learned is that spring training results mean nothing, nothing, about how the regular season will go. Damnit, Nellie. You're liable to ruin a couple of perfectly good cases of chronic depression with talk like that! :smile:

Bmr31
04-01-2002, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
I've been a baseball fan for a very long time. One thing I've learned is that spring training results mean nothing, nothing, about how the regular season will go.

i couldnt agree more! and that doesnt happen too often with nellie and i........i see the sox winning the division and who knows after that? I mean yeah other teams have more talent but look at the hoosiers! AS for spring training records? 31-0 or 0-31 it doesnt matter. Ive been saying that all spring....(well not always on here)

VeeckAsInWreck
04-01-2002, 01:38 AM
Sing along if you know it!!!!
...."Why can't we be friends!, why can't we be friends, why can't we be friends!...........

Anyway, It's Game 1 of 162! Let's enjoy the ride!!!!! Let's prove JM wrong!

:cleo
"This is the year of the white stocking"! :gulp:

kermittheefrog
04-01-2002, 01:48 AM
Jer what gets me is how adamant you are about the Sox finishing second. I'm not even that adamant about the Yanks winning the East and thats the division I'm most confident about among my picks. With the right breaks last place teams can contend in the following year. It's damn hard to predict where any team will be in 6 months and pretty foolish to think you can. Based on what I know about all the teams right now I think and hope the Sox will win the central. Can't be too sure about anything though with one game played out of 2430.

Bmr31
04-01-2002, 01:52 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Jer what gets me is how adamant you are about the Sox finishing second. I'm not even that adamant about the Yanks winning the East and thats the division I'm most confident about among my picks. With the right breaks last place teams can contend in the following year. It's damn hard to predict where any team will be in 6 months and pretty foolish to think you can. Based on what I know about all the teams right now I think and hope the Sox will win the central. Can't be too sure about anything though with one game played out of 2430.


hmmmm ive predicted 11 of the last 12 division winners...let me give it a try......



SF
STL
ATL
CWS
NYY
SEA

WS STL 4 NYY 2

kermittheefrog
04-01-2002, 02:07 AM
Originally posted by Bmr31



hmmmm ive predicted 11 of the last 12 division winners...let me give it a try......



Then who did you get wrong?

Bmr31
04-01-2002, 02:21 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


Then who did you get wrong?


i honestly dont remember. It wasnt last year. last year i was 6 for 6.....

czalgosz
04-01-2002, 09:35 AM
Originally posted by Bmr31



i honestly dont remember. It wasnt last year. last year i was 6 for 6.....

You picked the D-Backs to win the NL West last year? Pretty impressive. Did you have the Sox to win the AL Central in 2000?

Iwritecode
04-01-2002, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by czalgosz


Fluke performances by the Twins last season -

- Doug Mientkiewicz - He won't ever put together an .851 OPS again.

- Joe Mays - He's decent, but 17 wins and a 3.16 ERA? Career year.

Those two players alone, combined with nice stretches by guys like LaTroy Hawkins and A.J. Pierzynski, were what propelled them as far as they did.

Their offense right now is Cristian Guzman and Corey Koskie, who are two very nice players to have, but they're not franchise players. They'll miss Matt Lawton.

They aren't bad - they could be a .500 team if they hit on all cylinders, but to say they're better than the Sox is a stretch.

One more thing to note... If the Sox would have had a better head 2 head record against the Twins, the standings would have been much different. The Twins would have fallen to third and the Sox could have possibly had the division. Does anyone really think the Sox will have that bad of a head 2 head record against them again this year? I know I don't. We have Lofton and Durham who can beat the ball into the rug and beat out the throw to first, then Thomas to drive them in. There's 2 players right there we didn't have last year. How many players did the Twins gain?

PaleHoseGeorge
04-01-2002, 10:06 AM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
Does anyone really think the Sox will have that bad of a head 2 head record against them again this year? I know I don't. We have Lofton and Durham who can beat the ball into the rug and beat out the throw to first, then Thomas to drive them in. There's 2 players right there we didn't have last year. How many players did the Twins gain?

We don't match up well with Minnesota. Our hitters are too impatient to lay off the garbage guys like Joe Mays throws up to homeplate. Our fielders are too slow to cover much ground on that pool table the Twins call home. Our leftfielder has trouble tracking a white baseball on a white ceiling. Their hitters simply beat the ball into the carpet and leg it out--something our guys can't or won't do.

Sure, we're a better team than Minnesota, but that doesn't mean we'll beat them. The best news for Sox Fans this year versus last is the return of Big Frank to the #3 slot. Guys like Durham, Maggs, and Lee ought to have more patience with the big guy looming right in the middle of the line up.

:hurt
"Fear not!"

Iwritecode
04-01-2002, 10:06 AM
Originally posted by czalgosz
Here's a positive for you -

pitching stats for Friday, Saturday, Sunday, throwing out outings by Majewski, Malone, Wylie, Kohlmeier (guys who aren't on the 25-man roster)

19 1/3 IP, 16 H, 9 runs (all earned), 7 BB, 16 K, 3 HR, 4.19 ERA

Rauch's outing alone accounts for 4 runs, 4 hits, 4 walks, 1 K, and 1 HR. Outside of that, Sox pitcher's ERA was 2.50.

I'll take that.

Thank you CZ. I was going to mention this until I saw your post. I hate having to point out the obvious to people who only see the stats they want to see...

Iwritecode
04-01-2002, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


We don't match up well with Minnesota. Our hitters are too impatient to lay off the garbage guys like Joe Mays throws up to homeplate. Our fielders are too slow to cover much ground on that pool table the Twins call home. Our leftfielder has trouble tracking a white baseball on a white ceiling. Their hitters simply beat the ball into the carpet and leg it out--something our guys can't or won't do.

Sure, we're a better team than Minnesota, but that doesn't mean we'll beat them. The best news for Sox Fans this year versus last is the return of Big Frank to the #3 slot. Guys like Durham, Maggs, and Lee ought to have more patience with the big guy looming right in the middle of the line up.

:hurt
"Fear not!"

Hey PHG, how would you compare this year's Sox with last year's Jndjans? I think they are fairly similiar. At least offensively. Defensively they are close but not quite the same. I just know that the Twins got the crap kicked out of them last year by the Tribe. You would think that would bode well for us.

czalgosz
04-01-2002, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


We don't match up well with Minnesota. Our hitters are too impatient to lay off the garbage guys like Joe Mays throws up to homeplate. Our fielders are too slow to cover much ground on that pool table the Twins call home. Our leftfielder has trouble tracking a white baseball on a white ceiling. Their hitters simply beat the ball into the carpet and leg it out--something our guys can't or won't do.

Sure, we're a better team than Minnesota, but that doesn't mean we'll beat them. The best news for Sox Fans this year versus last is the return of Big Frank to the #3 slot. Guys like Durham, Maggs, and Lee ought to have more patience with the big guy looming right in the middle of the line up.

:hurt
"Fear not!"

One nice thing I saw yesterday was Sox hitters taking A TON of pitches. Sox hitters drew 10 walks yesterday, striking out 13 times. That tells you that they weren't first-pitch swinging. Maybe two guys swung at the first pitch they saw. The lineup feels a whole lot different with Lofton leading off - it just seems that Durham's more comfortable taking pitches now that he's batting behind Lofton and ahead of Thomas.

That's just my take, but if Lofton can return to being Kenny Lofton, things will be a whole lot better.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-01-2002, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
Hey PHG, how would you compare this year's Sox with last year's Jndjans? I think they are fairly similiar. At least offensively. Defensively they are close but not quite the same. I just know that the Twins got the crap kicked out of them last year by the Tribe. You would think that would bode well for us.

I usually don't like making comparisons of this kind simply because there are too many variables that make the analysis beyond simple explanation. For example, Cleveland plays half their games in Jacobs Field, and that's far different than playing half of them at Comiskey Park. However...

I think the 2000 Sox were practically a mirror image of Cleveland, except we had more pitchers. That's why we kicked their ***. Without Frank Thomas, the 2001 Sox couldn't hope to compete at the same level. Cleveland and Minnesota were ripe for the taking if our offense hadn't been so inconsistent (namely, Durham).

So what about 2002? I dunno. Niether team has played a game that counts yet. Lofton's addition fixes the sinkhole that our 7-9 slots had become. Either Valentin or Lee's presence will easily solve that problem. KW leaned on our young pitching staff for a lot last season and they responded surprisingly well. However, KW is drawing from that well for a second consecutive year. Will that be enough? I dunno.

This is what I know: the next 4 weeks are critical. We can't win a championship in April, but we can sure lose one. Either this team gels right now, or we're looking at some bad news in July. Reinsdorf is itching for an excuse to dismantle this ballclub.

As someone who lived through the '88 relocation threat, the '94 labor impasse, and the '97 White Flag trade, I don't think any April has ever loomed larger for our Sox.

ma-gaga
04-01-2002, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Sure, we're a better team than Minnesota, but that doesn't mean we'll beat them.

My biased $0.02. The only obstacle in the way of the Sox taking the division are the Twinkies. If they can go 0.500 against them, the Sox should win the division easily. If the Twins dominate the Sox again, it'll be a close race. We'll see how they matchup this year. 2000 and 2001 mean nothing anymore.

I agree that spring training means little to nothing. For some pitchers, it's just a preparation to get their timing down, and to work with the catchers, but the records should be ignored. The games now count. Good luck to the Sox.

:)

Iwritecode
04-01-2002, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
I usually don't like making comparisons of this kind simply because there are too many variables that make the analysis beyond simple explanation. For example, Cleveland plays half their games in Jacobs Field, and that's far different than playing half of them at Comiskey Park. However...

I can see your point. I do know that they beat them in the Twinkiedome quite a few times though, which seems to be where the Sox have the most problems. I just wonder what the Tribe was able to do last year that the Sox could do this year to help them win in Minn. (hey that rhymes...)

Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
I think the 2000 Sox were practically a mirror image of Cleveland, except we had more pitchers. That's why we kicked their ***. Without Frank Thomas, the 2001 Sox couldn't hope to compete at the same level. Cleveland and Minnesota were ripe for the taking if our offense hadn't been so inconsistent (namely, Durham).

I think this year's team is awfully close to the 2000 team. We'll have to wait and see how the pitching compares. Your right about missing Thomas though. I think he'll make a large difference this year. Move Ray behind Lofton should help also.

Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
So what about 2002? I dunno. Niether team has played a game that counts yet. Lofton's addition fixes the sinkhole that our 7-9 slots had become. Either Valentin or Lee's presence will easily solve that problem. KW leaned on our young pitching staff for a lot last season and they responded surprisingly well. However, KW is drawing from that well for a second consecutive year. Will that be enough? I dunno.

This is what I know: the next 4 weeks are critical. We can't win a championship in April, but we can sure lose one. Either this team gels right now, or we're looking at some bad news in July. Reinsdorf is itching for an excuse to dismantle this ballclub.

As someone who lived through the '88 relocation threat, the '94 labor impasse, and the '97 White Flag trade, I don't think any April has ever loomed larger for our Sox.

Agree with all of this. Hopefully the easier schedule of BAL, DET, KC and CLE will get them off to a good start.

Let's get this season started already!

Clarkdog
04-01-2002, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
I've been a baseball fan for a very long time. One thing I've learned is that spring training results mean nothing, nothing, about how the regular season will go.

Amen to that! The 2001 Yankees had just as bad a Spring as the 2002 White Sox and ended up in the World Series. Now I'm not predicting that that our Sox can cruise to a potential championship, but it does say that winning the Cactus or Grapefruit League doesn't mean **** in the regualr season.

Bmr31
04-01-2002, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz


You picked the D-Backs to win the NL West last year? Pretty impressive. Did you have the Sox to win the AL Central in 2000?

yes and yes, and i picked seattle in the west. I do know a lot about baseball, but luck was involved for sure. noone is THAT good lol :)

SosaNavaroSUCK
04-08-2002, 03:21 PM
I am picking the Padres to suprize everyone =)Does anyone agree?