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View Full Version : *Official* "Will the White Sox please wake up?" 6/6/07 Postgame Thread


getonbckthr
06-06-2007, 10:49 PM
We Suck. Pathetic performance again.

Viva Medias B's
06-06-2007, 10:51 PM
Another lethargic performance tonight. We have to start turning this thing around, and I mean now, if we are going to get back into this race.

getonbckthr
06-06-2007, 10:52 PM
We suck.

balke
06-06-2007, 10:52 PM
Just another day at the ballpark for the Sox.

BeviBall!
06-06-2007, 10:52 PM
Hard to wake up when you're dead.

DoItForDanPasqua
06-06-2007, 10:53 PM
Hey, at least they got one run. 360 feet is a long way to run.

IceczMan
06-06-2007, 10:53 PM
When's the last time the sox had a come from behind win this season? For some reason, I cant think of 1.......this offense makes me cringe.

whitesoxfan
06-06-2007, 10:54 PM
Fire Greg Walker. You can say how he's a scapegoat and everything, but this offense just looks God awful. Doesn't he tell the hitters to take some pitches? The approach of the hitters is pathetic. It's his job to help refine the player's approach at the plate. I have not seen jack **** through 2 months in any change whatsoever of any player's approach. This whole team just looks bad.

If the offense continues to suck without Walker, begin the fire sale.

getonbckthr
06-06-2007, 10:54 PM
I know its only June but can October just get here already.

sox1970
06-06-2007, 10:55 PM
After tomorrow night's game in which I'll be in attendance, I will not be watching White Sox baseball for two weeks. Partly because I'm opposed to interleague play; partly because it's so damn boring.

kobo
06-06-2007, 10:55 PM
Fire Greg Walker. You can say how he's a scapegoat and everything, but this offense just looks God awful. Doesn't he tell the hitters to take some pitches? The approach of the hitters is pathetic. It's his job to help refine the player's approach at the plate. I have not seen jack **** through 2 months in any change whatsoever of any player's approach. This whole team just looks bad.

If the offense continues to suck without Walker, begin the fire sale.
Hell, there has been no change since July of last year. Get rid of Walker and let's see what happens.

JB98
06-06-2007, 10:56 PM
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.......

Another poor performance from a bad team.

Slip sliding away
Slip sliding A-way
The Sox 2007 season is
Slip sliding away....

Viva Medias B's
06-06-2007, 10:56 PM
Hell, there has been no change since July of last year. Get rid of Walker and let's see what happens.

Don't hold your breath.

chisoxfanatic
06-06-2007, 10:57 PM
Another lethargic performance tonight. We have to start turning this thing around, and I mean now, if we are going to get back into this race.
If it doesn't happen against weaker NL competition, it won't happen at all! This is highly unacceptable.

TFLEM33
06-06-2007, 10:57 PM
Another poor showing by the Sox... I don't know why I continue to watch. My time would be better spent doing almost ANYTHING else. Wang is a good pitcher, but seriously, we aren't even having good at-bats. We are playing against a Yankee club that has been even worse than us all year, and somehow, we still find a way to lose. I am tired of this crap!!! It is becoming laughable. Nothing seems to be going our way. When am I going to wake up from this nightmare?!?!?!? I guess I'm getting a small taste of what it feels like to be a Cubs fan.

lakeviewsoxfan
06-06-2007, 10:57 PM
Pathetic. Walker needs to go.

sox1970
06-06-2007, 10:58 PM
Hell, there has been no change since July of last year. Get rid of Walker and let's see what happens.

Unfortunately for Walker, it's just the nature of the beast. I don't think he's a bad hitting coach--I mean he must have done something right two years ago. But at some point hitting coaches are hired to be fired. But who is in line? Daryl Boston?

soxfan45
06-06-2007, 10:59 PM
We waste so much oxygen talking about our lack of leadoff hitter and the poor #2 performance but could someone tell Dye and Konerko that the season has started. What a joke our 3-4-5 are.... they look old.....

skobabe8
06-06-2007, 10:59 PM
Its probably not his fault, but Walker's head may need to roll. Something needs to happen. And fast.

Huisj
06-06-2007, 10:59 PM
I don't know why I continue to watch. My time would be better spent doing almost ANYTHING else.

I'm thinking my MLB.TV package may be cancelled soon. When I pay $15 a month for games, I feel obligated to watch them since I'm paying, but making time to watch these games isn't really worth it at all, and I've been caring less and less about missing some since they are so pathetic to watch. If I cancel it I'll actually feel free to have a life (or something).

CLR01
06-06-2007, 11:00 PM
But who is in line? Daryl Boston?

Does it really matter? Worst case scenario is the offense continues to suck.

lakeviewsoxfan
06-06-2007, 11:00 PM
Unfortunately for Walker, it's just the nature of the beast. I don't think he's a bad hitting coach--I mean he must have done something right two years ago. But at some point hitting coaches are hired to be fired. But who is in line? Daryl Boston?

The thing is the Sox were a average hitting team in 05 we won in spite of Walker.

IceczMan
06-06-2007, 11:01 PM
It's great to look through all of these posts then turn on the post game to see ozzie laughing...

BiggestFan14
06-06-2007, 11:02 PM
I didn't know Walker was playing in this game...

But this hitting is pathetic lately, they really need to start showing some heart or something needs to be done to get them going. Better tie the series tommorrow.

sox1970
06-06-2007, 11:02 PM
We waste so much oxygen talking about our lack of leadoff hitter and the poor #2 performance but could someone tell Dye and Konerko that the season has started. What a joke our 3-4-5 are.... they look old.....

Most of the Sox lineup plays older than they really are. It's really disturbing.

DoItForDanPasqua
06-06-2007, 11:02 PM
The thing is the Sox were a average hitting team in 05 we won in spite of Walker.

Slightly below average in runs per game.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_2005.shtml

CLR01
06-06-2007, 11:03 PM
I didn't know Walker was playing in this game...

And an outsider wouldn't know his title was hitting coach either.

sox1970
06-06-2007, 11:03 PM
The thing is the Sox were a average hitting team in 05 we won in spite of Walker.

Yeah, that's true.

Viva Medias B's
06-06-2007, 11:04 PM
Ozzie seems remarkably calm in the midst of all this. When will he blow a gasket?

lakeviewsoxfan
06-06-2007, 11:06 PM
Slightly below average in runs per game.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_2005.shtml

If my job performance was as poor as his has been I would be out of a job in 2 months.

Hendu
06-06-2007, 11:06 PM
Wow, this is getting bad. When we were down 4-1, it felt like we were down 15-1.

Viva Medias B's
06-06-2007, 11:06 PM
For those who want Walk fired, answer me this:

Whom would you replace him with?
How do you know Walk's would be replacement would improve things and get us back into the race?

ND_Sox_Fan
06-06-2007, 11:06 PM
Saw the third inning tonight ... hit a nice bucket of balls at the driving range. Nice night out there.

JB98
06-06-2007, 11:07 PM
Ozzie seems remarkably calm in the midst of all this. When will he blow a gasket?

This is the new, politically correct, sensitive Ozzie.

Viva Medias B's
06-06-2007, 11:07 PM
Saw the third inning tonight ... hit a nice bucket of balls at the driving range. Nice night out there.

You hit more than the Sox did, then.

HotelWhiteSox
06-06-2007, 11:08 PM
Ozzie seems remarkably calm in the midst of all this. When will he blow a gasket?

At least he's passionate about sports radio :?:

DoItForDanPasqua
06-06-2007, 11:09 PM
I agree Greg Walker deserves some of the blame, but these are big league hitters. I think they should be held accountable for there own actions. Did Walker hypnotize them into forgetting how to hit? Is he making martinis for them in the dugout? They have grown complacent and a coach telling them to hold the bat higher or cut down on their swing isn't going to change that. They should know these things by now: this isn't rookie league.

lakeviewsoxfan
06-06-2007, 11:09 PM
For those who want Walk fired, answer me this:

Whom would you replace him with?
How do you know Walk's would be replacement would improve things and get us back into the race?

1.I heard Ron Karkovice is out of work
2.Somethings gotta give, a shakeup is needed.

getonbckthr
06-06-2007, 11:09 PM
I'm curious whats our record after the Ozzie Guillen/Jay Marriotti *** exchange? It seems since then our team just hasn't looked right.

alohafri
06-06-2007, 11:10 PM
Another lethargic performance tonight. We have to start turning this thing around, and I mean now, if we are going to get back into this race.

I hate to sound like the dark cloud, but they are not getting back into this race. We have a utility man playing left, a rookie in center, an aging vet in right, a rookie at third, a bullpen with an ERA from hell. Not even St. Jude can help this team.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-06-2007, 11:10 PM
For those who want Walk fired, answer me this:
Whom would you replace him with?
How do you know Walk's would be replacement would improve things and get us back into the race?

What a killjoy. The WSI post-game mob demands blood! Off with his head!!!

:cool:

If you think we're bad, the callers on sportblab radio want Walker drawn and quartered. Of course they're all too dumb to know what "drawn and quartered" means, but that never stops the producer from putting the call on the air...

TFLEM33
06-06-2007, 11:12 PM
You hit more than the Sox did, then.
:rolling: HAHAHA!!! Sadly, this is true.

Vernam
06-06-2007, 11:12 PM
Still unwilling to accept the fallibility of KW, I now believe this is part of his master plan to build our farm system by improving our standing in next year's FA draft. :whiner:

With Tivo, these games can be viewed in well under an hour. I really feel for the people watching every pitch, because it's agonizing stuff. If Tivo had been around starting in the 50s, my dad probably would have lived an extra ten years.

Sign me up for the fire Walker bandwagon. He's a great guy, but this goes with the territory. A team can't write off the whole season for the sake of sparing one man's job. This is beyond ridiculous now.

Vernam

Huisj
06-06-2007, 11:14 PM
For those who want Walk fired, answer me this:
Whom would you replace him with?
How do you know Walk's would be replacement would improve things and get us back into the race?

You can ask question #2 for the situation of keeping walker too. How do you know that keeping him will get the Sox back into the race?

Heck, you can ask that question any time anyone is fired. I think that the answer generally is that if players are performing terribly under a certain coach, the idea is that a fresh start with something new might get them back on track or at least move them in the right direction. How risky is that when your prime big money hitters are terrible anyway? They can't get worse, and maybe a new coach could get them better. Guarantee? No, but there's no guarantee that they'll improve under Walker either.

JB98
06-06-2007, 11:14 PM
For those who want Walk fired, answer me this:

Whom would you replace him with?
How do you know Walk's would be replacement would improve things and get us back into the race?

1. A guy who is already on our staff: Harold Baines. Hell, maybe just have Walker and Baines switch duties.

2. Damn if I know, but I do know status quo isn't getting it done and hasn't been getting it done since last July.

I'm just flabbergasted by how bad this offense is. I don't understand it. As I said in the game thread, Jim Thome is the only guy on this team producing anywhere near his career norms.

Viva Medias B's
06-06-2007, 11:14 PM
What a killjoy. The WSI post-game mob demands blood! Off with his head!!!

:cool:

If you think we're bad, the callers on sportblab radio want Walker drawn and quartered. Of course they're all too dumb to know what "drawn and quartered" means, but that never stops the producer from putting the call on the air...

You couldn't be more right on that one, PHG.

Sox
06-06-2007, 11:16 PM
1.I heard Ron Karkovice is out of work
2.Somethings gotta give, a shakeup is needed.

Maybe we can get the "Big Hurt" back.

TheOldRoman
06-06-2007, 11:17 PM
For those who want Walk fired, answer me this:
Whom would you replace him with?
How do you know Walk's would be replacement would improve things and get us back into the race?
1. I don't know, but it wouldn't matter. He needs to be fired immediately.
2. He couldn't possibly be worse than Walker. And it doesn't matter. Blood needs to be spilled. You can't fire all the players, so you have to fire the coach. It just so happens that coach is one of the worst in the game. Someone new needs to be brought in. Things need to change.

I feel good. I didn't watch a bit of this game. It feels good not watching this ****. I don't think I will see another game until Sunday, and it doesn't bother me a bit.

Viva Medias B's
06-06-2007, 11:17 PM
Maybe we can get the "Big Hurt" back.

The hell with that, let's get Aaron Rowand back and have him be the player/hitting coach!!!

HotelWhiteSox
06-06-2007, 11:17 PM
Well you can't fire the multimillion dollar veterans who've been pathetic, but you can make the guy (which they swear by) lose his job and send a strong message that way. If the Walker thing happens tomorrow I'd say it's at least a month too late. I also get a little weary when guys really love their coach, maybe they don't want some guy brought in who won't hand out the least work possible.

WhiteSox5187
06-06-2007, 11:19 PM
I dont' think that Greg Walker is really the problem. I think the problem is that one, we're injured. And two, we're really not that good...you have a bunch of guys on this team who can hit HRs and clog up the bases and that's it. Walker didn't get those guys, Kenny did. ANd truth be told, it's not Kenny's fault that they're all so banged up.

DoItForDanPasqua
06-06-2007, 11:21 PM
Whom would you replace him with?

Maybe this guy. He would be sitting in the dugout waiting when a player returns from popping up in another futile attempt at hitting a homer.

http://www.photographicexcellence.com/Archive%20Images/Headshots/mr%20mobster.jpg

PaleHoseGeorge
06-06-2007, 11:23 PM
I dont' think that Greg Walker is really the problem. I think the problem is that one, we're injured. And two, we're really not that good...you have a bunch of guys on this team who can hit HRs and clog up the bases and that's it. Walker didn't get those guys, Kenny did. ANd truth be told, it's not Kenny's fault that they're all so banged up.

What is this? A voice of reason in the WSI post-game tantrum thread?!?

Off with his head!!!!

And we're keeping an eye on you, too...

:wink:

WhiteSox5187
06-06-2007, 11:26 PM
What is this? A voice of reason in the WSI post-game tantrum thread?!?

Off with his head!!!!

And we're keeping an eye on you, too...

:wink:
Good god, things have REALLY gotten out of hand if I'm being called the voice of reason.

JB98
06-06-2007, 11:27 PM
I dont' think that Greg Walker is really the problem. I think the problem is that one, we're injured. And two, we're really not that good...you have a bunch of guys on this team who can hit HRs and clog up the bases and that's it. Walker didn't get those guys, Kenny did. ANd truth be told, it's not Kenny's fault that they're all so banged up.

I agree that we are a power-hitting team that is not hitting home runs right now. Therefore, we aren't scoring runs.

Here's the thing though: The offensive execution is piss poor. We can't get a bunt down. We can't get a guy in from third base with less than two outs. If we could just take advantage of easy scoring opportunities when they present themselves, we'd have scored more runs and probably won a few more games.

Whether it's Walker, Guillen or somebody else, doesn't that reflect poorly on the job the coaching staff is doing?

soxinthecity
06-06-2007, 11:30 PM
Greg Walker can only help them in there mistakes at the plate, how to attack pitchers and so on.
He's not the one constantly swinging the bat with a upper cut motion, taking good pitches swinging at first pitches or standing at the plate with no sense of intensity. It's like there all just going through the motions as if they have somewhere else to be.

I don't buy into the there just old excuse, it just seems like they are just not into it.

JorgeFabregas
06-06-2007, 11:33 PM
Wait, clogging the bases? I would kill for a bunch of lugs clogging the bases. At least they might score some runs by accident. However, we have fewer runners on base than anyone in the league. Those bases are completely unclogged.

DoItForDanPasqua
06-06-2007, 11:34 PM
Greg Walker can only help them in there mistakes at the plate, how to attack pitchers and so on.
He's not the one constantly swinging the bat with a upper cut motion, taking good pitches swinging at first pitches or standing at the plate with no sense of intensity. It's like there all just going through the motions as if they have somewhere else to be.

I don't buy into the there just old excuse, it just seems like they are just not into it.

Their, They're, They're.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-06-2007, 11:35 PM
:reinsy
"Have any of you guys ever checked into the costs of firing and hiring a hitting coach? I didn't think so."

"Next question."

Sox
06-06-2007, 11:35 PM
I agree that we are a power-hitting team that is not hitting home runs right now. Therefore, we aren't scoring runs.

Here's the thing though: The offensive execution is piss poor. We can't get a bunt down. We can't get a guy in from third base with less than two outs. If we could just take advantage of easy scoring opportunities when they present themselves, we'd have scored more runs and probably won a few more games.

Whether it's Walker, Guillen or somebody else, doesn't that reflect poorly on the job the coaching staff is doing?

I think that it not only reflects on the coaching staff but the players as well....

DickAllen72
06-06-2007, 11:35 PM
Wait, clogging the bases? I would kill for a bunch of lugs clogging the bases. At least they might score some runs by accident. However, we have fewer runners on base than anyone in the league. Those bases are completely unclogged.
They're not clogging the bases and they're not hitting home runs. They're not doing their jobs. I don't know what the hell is going on. Maybe they were all on the juice/amphetemines the past few years??? I just don't know.

itsnotrequired
06-06-2007, 11:36 PM
It was a beer-only night for me as I drop to .500 on the season.

Sig update time...

DoItForDanPasqua
06-06-2007, 11:38 PM
It was a beer-only night for me as I drop to .500 on the season.

Sig update time...

What? No whiskey?

JB98
06-06-2007, 11:38 PM
Wait, clogging the bases? I would kill for a bunch of lugs clogging the bases. At least they might score some runs by accident. However, we have fewer runners on base than anyone in the league. Those bases are completely unclogged.

Pods was on base twice tonight for Charlotte. Screw rehab assignments! Call up Pods now!

WhiteSox5187
06-06-2007, 11:38 PM
I think that it not only reflects on the coaching staff but the players as well....
I agree with this one hundred percent, you can call a thousand team meetings have a thousand practices on how to get down a bunt, move runners over, etc. but that doesn't mean it will work. At the end of the day it is up to the players to execute and right now they're just not doing that. You can take the best coach in the world and give him a rat's ass team and he will look like a moron. At the same time give a guy like Terry Bevington a REALLY talented team (like say the 1998 Yankees) and he could win a World Series title. In the end, players make a team good, bad or great.

Huisj
06-06-2007, 11:38 PM
I dont' think that Greg Walker is really the problem. I think the problem is that one, we're injured. And two, we're really not that good...you have a bunch of guys on this team who can hit HRs and clog up the bases and that's it. Walker didn't get those guys, Kenny did. ANd truth be told, it's not Kenny's fault that they're all so banged up.

Except that Konerko and Dye aren't injured (at least as far as we know), and most of the lineup isn't really hitting home runs. Injuries can't explain why Konerko's average is .235 and has actually spent more time closer to .200 than to .250 (and .250 for him is pathetic. Injuries can't explain why Dye gets "hot" for a few days at a time here and there and still is hitting below .230. Injuries can't explain why Uribe is worse this year than he was last year, which was worse than he'd been the year before, which was worse than he was the year before that.

There's no excuse for this team to only have 2 batter over hitting over .250. That's unreal. Major league baseball as a whole is hitting .261. That means Thome and Erstad have both hit above average, except that in Erstad's case, his OBP and slugging percentage are both below average.

itsnotrequired
06-06-2007, 11:38 PM
What? No whiskey?

Whiskey counts as beer on Tuesdays and Thursdays only.

soxinthecity
06-06-2007, 11:39 PM
Their, They're, They're.


Wow, you know how to spell and I not great at grammer.

last i Chequed i'm not beeing graded in this forum.

WSFP00
06-06-2007, 11:39 PM
Wow, you know how to spell and I not great at grammer.

last i Chequed i'm not beeing graded in this forum.
You'd be surprised.

champagne030
06-06-2007, 11:40 PM
I dont' think that Greg Walker is really the problem. I think the problem is that one, we're injured. And two, we're really not that good...you have a bunch of guys on this team who can hit HRs and clog up the bases and that's it. Walker didn't get those guys, Kenny did. ANd truth be told, it's not Kenny's fault that they're all so banged up.

One problem is that guys like Walnuts and Dye aren't even getting on base to clog anything. Walker is probably not the cause of the problem, but he sure isn't close to being the solution at this point.

The fact that Pods, GrindErstad and Crede are banged up shouldn't come as a shock to KW.

I'll agree that we're just not very good, but someone should be held accountable for running a highly suspect 8,9, leadoff guy, plus 4-7 spots in the bullpen from the start this season. And hasn't corrected an inability for 90% of the team to hit the ball the other way or lay down a sac bunt.

Law11
06-06-2007, 11:41 PM
When does Bearbonnais start....
Its officially ugly....

DoItForDanPasqua
06-06-2007, 11:41 PM
Wow, you know how to spell and I not great at grammer.

last i Chequed i'm not beeing graded in this forum.

Sorry, I'm bitter about the loss, and I decided to make myself feel better by pointing out the shortcomings of others. Greg Walker was already taken.

soxinthecity
06-06-2007, 11:41 PM
You'd be surprised.

Yeah I guess your right.

MISoxfan
06-06-2007, 11:41 PM
I dont' think that Greg Walker is really the problem. I think the problem is that one, we're injured. And two, we're really not that good...you have a bunch of guys on this team who can hit HRs and clog up the bases and that's it. Walker didn't get those guys, Kenny did. ANd truth be told, it's not Kenny's fault that they're all so banged up.

How can you possibly sum up our hitting woes with a team who can hit HRs and clog up the bases. They aren't hitting HRs or clogging up the bases. They're hardly getting on base. If they were hitting HRs and clogging up the bases we'd be in a much better position.

Dye is hitting .050 below his career average projected to ~30 hrs
Paulie .050 below his career average ~24 hrs
Pierzynski .036 below his career average
Iguchi .026 below his career average ~6 hrs
Crede .043 below his career average ~12 hrs
Uribe .038 below his career average ~15 hrs

If these guys were hitting the way they did last season or even at the career averages, there wouldn't even be a problem with the offense. Is this Walkers problem? I don't know, but if he doesn't at least share the blame then is there even a point to a hitting coach?

southsideirish71
06-06-2007, 11:43 PM
A pull only upper cut swinging team is a simple task for a major league pitcher. Spot the ball low and away for the most part, and when you get 2 strikes throw one melon high or bounce one in.

This is what is happening, The Joe Mays way to dissect a lift and pull offense has been replicated. Cy Clippard got away with 87 mph straight as an arrow pitches last night.

JB98
06-06-2007, 11:44 PM
A pull only upper cut swinging team is a simple task for a major league pitcher. Spot the ball low and away for the most part, and when you get 2 strikes throw one melon high or bounce one in.

This is what is happening, The Joe Mays way to dissect a lift and pull offense has been replicated. Cy Clippard got away with 87 mph straight as an arrow pitches last night.

Not to mention a host of high changeups. Clippard couldn't even get a breaking ball over, and he shut down the Sox.

southsideirish71
06-06-2007, 11:44 PM
If one more moron calls into the post game show to ask if Thome would bunt I am going to scream.

How about this, dont bunt. Hit line drives. Line drive swings will do more to solve our offensive problems that our power hitting DH dropping down a bunt.

WhiteSox5187
06-06-2007, 11:46 PM
Except that Konerko and Dye aren't injured (at least as far as we know), and most of the lineup isn't really hitting home runs. Injuries can't explain why Konerko's average is .235 and has actually spent more time closer to .200 than to .250 (and .250 for him is pathetic. Injuries can't explain why Dye gets "hot" for a few days at a time here and there and still is hitting below .230. Injuries can't explain why Uribe is worse this year than he was last year, which was worse than he'd been the year before, which was worse than he was the year before that.

There's no excuse for this team to only have 2 batter over hitting over .250. That's unreal. Major league baseball as a whole is hitting .261. That means Thome and Erstad have both hit above average, except that in Erstad's case, his OBP and slugging percentage are both below average.
So if we fire Walker, Konerko is all of a sudden going to get red hot and start tearing the cover off the ball? Dye too? And Uribe will all of a sudden become an all star shortstop? I don't have an answer for Konerko or Dye, Konerko has historically been maddeningly streaky. He's only hit above .300 twice in his career...JD typically gets off to slow starts, he was this bad in 2005. And Uribe really isn't that good. I just dont think that firing Walker or Ozzie or even Kenny is going to solve anything for this team. Maybe at the end of the season one or all of them should lose their jobs, but not right now.

VenturaFan23
06-06-2007, 11:46 PM
Sig update time. :(: Fire Walker. Do something already. I'm so tired of this ****. That's all I have to say.

Sox
06-06-2007, 11:48 PM
I agree with this one hundred percent, you can call a thousand team meetings have a thousand practices on how to get down a bunt, move runners over, etc. but that doesn't mean it will work. At the end of the day it is up to the players to execute and right now they're just not doing that. You can take the best coach in the world and give him a rat's ass team and he will look like a moron. At the same time give a guy like Terry Bevington a REALLY talented team (like say the 1998 Yankees) and he could win a World Series title. In the end, players make a team good, bad or great.

:nod: :thumbsup:

JB98
06-06-2007, 11:48 PM
If one more moron calls into the post game show to ask if Thome would bunt I am going to scream.

How about this, dont bunt. Hit line drives. Line drive swings will do more to solve our offensive problems that our power hitting DH dropping down a bunt.

What a bunch of dumbasses. I've always hated the "Thome should bunt" crowd. What sense does that make?

Let's say Thome bunts for a single. Then, someone else might single, and he advances to second. Hopefully, we get a third hit in the inning so Jim can advance to third. Now we have three hits in the inning and still no runs. Yeah!

southsideirish71
06-06-2007, 11:48 PM
So if we fire Walker, Konerko is all of a sudden going to get red hot and start tearing the cover off the ball? Dye too? And Uribe will all of a sudden become an all star shortstop? I don't have an answer for Konerko or Dye, Konerko has historically been maddeningly streaky. He's only hit above .300 twice in his career...JD typically gets off to slow starts, he was this bad in 2005. And Uribe really isn't that good. I just dont think that firing Walker or Ozzie or even Kenny is going to solve anything for this team. Maybe at the end of the season one or all of them should lose their jobs, but not right now.

Dye hit .275 in May of 05. He has a bad April. He started to take off in mid May.

itsnotrequired
06-06-2007, 11:49 PM
If one more moron calls into the post game show to ask if Thome would bunt I am going to scream.

How about this, dont bunt. Hit line drives. Line drive swings will do more to solve our offensive problems that our power hitting DH dropping down a bunt.

Thome needs to hit opposite field more often. What's his problem?

JB98
06-06-2007, 11:49 PM
So if we fire Walker, Konerko is all of a sudden going to get red hot and start tearing the cover off the ball? Dye too? And Uribe will all of a sudden become an all star shortstop? I don't have an answer for Konerko or Dye, Konerko has historically been maddeningly streaky. He's only hit above .300 twice in his career...JD typically gets off to slow starts, he was this bad in 2005. And Uribe really isn't that good. I just dont think that firing Walker or Ozzie or even Kenny is going to solve anything for this team. Maybe at the end of the season one or all of them should lose their jobs, but not right now.

Maybe we should fire Eddie Murray instead. It worked for the 2005 Indians. Sort of. They got back in the race, but they choked at the end. :D:

soxinthecity
06-06-2007, 11:49 PM
Sorry, I'm bitter about the loss, and I decided to make myself feel better by pointing out the shortcomings of others. Greg Walker was already taken.

No big deal, I'm sure most of us are short fused right now. It's gotta get better it just has to.

MISoxfan
06-06-2007, 11:51 PM
If my job performance was as poor as his has been I would be out of a job in 2 months.

2003 8th most R/G
2004 3rd
2005 9th
2006 3rd

Yes right now we're 13th out of 14th, but with four years of average to very good performance I'd hope you wouldn't lose your job after two months.

Not to mention its 13th out of what should be the best of the best in the world.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-06-2007, 11:53 PM
http://www.nightscribe.com/Entertainment/images/emperor2.jpg

"Yes! Yes! Let your anger flow!!!"

DoItForDanPasqua
06-06-2007, 11:55 PM
Bring back Von Joshua.

WhiteSox5187
06-06-2007, 11:55 PM
How can you possibly sum up our hitting woes with a team who can hit HRs and clog up the bases. They aren't hitting HRs or clogging up the bases. They're hardly getting on base. If they were hitting HRs and clogging up the bases we'd be in a much better position.

Dye is hitting .050 below his career average projected to ~30 hrs
Paulie .050 below his career average ~24 hrs
Pierzynski .036 below his career average
Iguchi .026 below his career average ~6 hrs
Crede .043 below his career average ~12 hrs
Uribe .038 below his career average ~15 hrs

If these guys were hitting the way they did last season or even at the career averages, there wouldn't even be a problem with the offense. Is this Walkers problem? I don't know, but if he doesn't at least share the blame then is there even a point to a hitting coach?
I'm not going to lie and say the problem is that guys are clogging up the basepaths, but really, nobody is getting on base to set the table for guys like JD or Paulie or AJ. THAT is a problem.

If more guys were getting on base, you'd see the middle of the order hitting a lot more I think because the pitcher would be more careful in selecting his pitches and they'd probably see a lot more fastballs or the pitcher would get too picky around a guy like Thome or Konerko and walk them bringing up a guy like AJ with the bases loaded and the pitcher doesn't want to walk in a run so he makes a mistake and AJ hits a drive in the gap and all of a sudden the Sox bring in two run with runners at the corners...but it's hard to bring in guys who aren't on base.

I'm not going to BS you and say I know all about the nuiances of the game or the art of hitting or anything like that. The fact is I never played above the high school level and even there I sucked, but it seems to me that the more pressure you can apply to a pitcher the more mistakes he'll make. The 3-4-5 guys are there really to drive in the 1-2 guys. And if 1-2 aren't on base, then it becomes a difficult task for 3-4-5. And as far hitting coaches go, what are you going to tell a guy like Paulie? "Hit the ball harder"? Paulie's a professional, he knows what he's doing and I assure you that if there were any kinks in Paulie's swing, Walker would be the first one to tell him. But sometimes you just don't hit and if that's the case, there's not a whole lot you can do really.

MISoxfan
06-06-2007, 11:56 PM
So if we fire Walker, Konerko is all of a sudden going to get red hot and start tearing the cover off the ball? Dye too? And Uribe will all of a sudden become an all star shortstop?

What a strawman. Let me try one on you, so you're saying the hitting coach doesn't have anything to do with the teams hitting?? In that case lets fire our coaches and just put the money into players.

Edit- I will agree with your last post about the 1-2 hitters.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-06-2007, 11:56 PM
Bring back Von Joshua.

:von
"Still have the tag. I'm ready!"

southsideirish71
06-06-2007, 11:56 PM
2003 8th most R/G
2004 3rd
2005 9th
2006 3rd

Yes right now we're 13th out of 14th, but with four years of average to very good performance I'd hope you wouldn't lose your job after two months.

Not to mention its 13th out of what should be the best of the best in the world.

We shouldnt of fired Von Joshua or Gary Ward by your assessment then.

In 2000 1st
In 2001 6th Von Joshua canned in May
IN 2002 3rd
In 2003 Gary Ward canned in May

Parrothead
06-06-2007, 11:57 PM
What a bunch of dumbasses. I've always hated the "Thome should bunt" crowd. What sense does that make?

Let's say Thome bunts for a single. Then, someone else might single, and he advances to second. Hopefully, we get a third hit in the inning so Jim can advance to third. Now we have three hits in the inning and still no runs. Yeah!

I wouldn't mind see Thome go to the opposite field when they have the shift on.

JB98
06-06-2007, 11:57 PM
I think we should hire TheOldRoman as hitting coach. :D:

PaleHoseGeorge
06-06-2007, 11:58 PM
We shouldnt of fired Von Joshua or Gary Ward by your assessment then.

In 2000 1st
In 2001 6th Von Joshua canned in May
IN 2002 3rd
In 2003 Gary Ward canned in May

:fireward

Wow. What a history lesson this thread has become!

:wink:

WhiteSox5187
06-06-2007, 11:58 PM
Dye hit .275 in May of 05. He has a bad April. He started to take off in mid May.
Ah, see I remember him really getting hot and essentially carrying the team in August. I know he had a miserable April but I thought it extended into May and he started hitting consitently in June. Obviously, my memory is a little foggy.

JB98
06-06-2007, 11:59 PM
I wouldn't mind see Thome go to the opposite field when they have the shift on.

He does. Frequently. His hit tonight was right through where the third baseman usually stands.

The notion that Thome never goes opposite field is patently false. It's one of the great myths of Sox fandom.

SoxSpeed22
06-06-2007, 11:59 PM
When does Bears training camp start?

Huisj
06-07-2007, 12:00 AM
So if we fire Walker, Konerko is all of a sudden going to get red hot and start tearing the cover off the ball? Dye too? And Uribe will all of a sudden become an all star shortstop? I don't have an answer for Konerko or Dye, Konerko has historically been maddeningly streaky. He's only hit above .300 twice in his career...JD typically gets off to slow starts, he was this bad in 2005. And Uribe really isn't that good. I just dont think that firing Walker or Ozzie or even Kenny is going to solve anything for this team. Maybe at the end of the season one or all of them should lose their jobs, but not right now.

Hmm, I don't think I said they would automatically start hitting awesome if Walker got fired. You said that the sox are hurt and not very good and that's why they aren't hitting. I was just trying to say that there are guys who are historically good hitters over their careers who are not hurt and are not hitting at all. There are also players who at one time showed promise but have gotten worse every year recently. And there is basically nobody on the team with even "average" numbers.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-07-2007, 12:00 AM
I would fire Nardi Contreras again if it would help Paul Konerko hit the belt-high fastball!

:firenardi

southsideirish71
06-07-2007, 12:00 AM
He does. Frequently. His hit tonight was right through where the third baseman usually stands.

The notion that Thome never goes opposite field is patently false. It's one of the great myths of Sox fandom.

The numbers are pretty much on the money on this.

If he puts the ball on the ground, its a pull more than 80% of the time. When he puts it in the air line drive or fly, its spread out more evenly. Hence why teams put on the infield shift, but leave the outfield playing normal.

WhiteSox5187
06-07-2007, 12:01 AM
He does. Frequently. His hit tonight was right through where the third baseman usually stands.

The notion that Thome never goes opposite field is patently false. It's one of the great myths of Sox fandom.
He does certainly try, and he occasionally does get through. But there's another factor we're missing: it's hard to take major league pitching the other way. Very hard.

DoItForDanPasqua
06-07-2007, 12:01 AM
I would fire Nardi Contreras again if it would help Paul Konerko hit the belt-high fastball!

:firenardi

I agree, I don't think firing Nardi once was nearly enough.

itsnotrequired
06-07-2007, 12:03 AM
Thome needs to hit opposite field more often. What's his problem?

I wouldn't mind see Thome go to the opposite field when they have the shift on.

Well, that didn't take long.

:redneck

champagne030
06-07-2007, 12:03 AM
He does certainly try, and he occasionally does get through. But there's another factor we're missing: it's hard to take major league pitching the other way. Very hard.

Not when they're throwing you low and away. It's the only place you should hit it.

JB98
06-07-2007, 12:03 AM
The numbers are pretty much on the money on this.

If he puts the ball on the ground, its a pull more than 80% of the time. When he puts it in the air line drive or fly, its spread out more evenly. Hence why teams put on the infield shift, but leave the outfield playing normal.

With a man at third and less than two outs, Jim often goes opposite field. He's hit two or three sacrifice flies to left field since he came off the DL.

WhiteSox5187
06-07-2007, 12:03 AM
Hmm, I don't think I said they would automatically start hitting awesome if Walker got fired. You said that the sox are hurt and not very good and that's why they aren't hitting. I was just trying to say that there are guys who are historically good hitters over their careers who are not hurt and are not hitting at all. There are also players who at one time showed promise but have gotten worse every year recently. And there is basically nobody on the team with even "average" numbers.
I didn't mean to imply that you said that the Sox would get magically better if Walker was canned. I know you didn't mean that. My whole point was that regardless of who you bring in or fire as coach, it really won't help the team. Like I said earlier, you can have all the meetings and all the practices in the world but it still doesn't mean a damn on the field during game time.

DoItForDanPasqua
06-07-2007, 12:04 AM
:firepettis

While we're at it.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-07-2007, 12:05 AM
Well, that didn't take long.

:redneck


Hey, don't make any wisecracks in this thread without voting to fire somebody.

Here, use this one.

:firepettis

WhiteSox5187
06-07-2007, 12:06 AM
Not when they're throwing you low and away. It's the only place you should hit it.
When you're stance is as open as his is, it IS hard to take it the other way, regardless of where they throw it. But I'm a little bit out of my element here, like I said, I'm no student of the nature of hitting, etc.

JB98
06-07-2007, 12:06 AM
Not when they're throwing you low and away. It's the only place you should hit it.

Thome hit two balls to the left side of the field tonight and two balls to the right.

Not sure why this argument is coming up tonight.

southsideirish71
06-07-2007, 12:06 AM
I didn't mean to imply that you said that the Sox would get magically better if Walker was canned. I know you didn't mean that. My whole point was that regardless of who you bring in or fire as coach, it really won't help the team. Like I said earlier, you can have all the meetings and all the practices in the world but it still doesn't mean a damn on the field during game time.

2003

The first month of Walker on the job they were 9th in runs scored.
Then in July they were number 1.
Then in August they were number 1.
Then in September they were 6th.

MISoxfan
06-07-2007, 12:07 AM
We shouldnt of fired Von Joshua or Gary Ward by your assessment then.

In 2000 1st
In 2001 6th Von Joshua canned in May
IN 2002 3rd
In 2003 Gary Ward canned in May

No thats not true. I'm just saying that by far the majority of us would not be in jeopardy of losing our jobs if we had the history of Walker. He does not have an every day job and has to be held to a different standard. I just thought it was a poor comparison for any of us to say we'd lose our job if we performed similarly.

DoItForDanPasqua
06-07-2007, 12:07 AM
Fire Pants Rowland!!!!

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/gallery/data/13/thumbs/PantsRowland.jpg

CLR01
06-07-2007, 12:08 AM
I didn't mean to imply that you said that the Sox would get magically better if Walker was canned. I know you didn't mean that. My whole point was that regardless of who you bring in or fire as coach, it really won't help the team. Like I said earlier, you can have all the meetings and all the practices in the world but it still doesn't mean a damn on the field during game time.

Then just get rid of the coaches all together and the "fire so and so" nonsense stops. They apparently don't do anything anyway.

WhiteSox5187
06-07-2007, 12:09 AM
Fire Pants Rowland!!!!

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/gallery/data/13/thumbs/PantsRowland.jpg
Hell yea!!!!

PaleHoseGeorge
06-07-2007, 12:10 AM
Slightly off topic, but having seen him play stellar D for Toronto this past weekend, I feel this needs to be said.

:thechoice

southsideirish71
06-07-2007, 12:10 AM
No thats not true. I'm just saying that by far the majority of us would not be in jeopardy of losing our jobs if we had the history of Walker. He does not have an every day job and has to be held to a different standard. I just thought it was a poor comparison for any of us to say we'd lose our job if we performed similarly.

The whitesox have had pretty much the same offense in one fashion or another since 2000. They have scored similiar amounts of runs since 2000. Players, coaches, have changed. So again what is so special about Walker that we cant fire him. And how has his record been so good that we cant. The whitesox for years, have put up runs. If you take the pitching staff that we had in 05 and put that on a lot of those other teams we would of had a lot of better results. Before 2005 we lost because of a black hole in the 5th spot, and a propensity to try to homer our way to a division crown.

itsnotrequired
06-07-2007, 12:12 AM
Hey, don't make any wisecracks in this thread without voting to fire somebody.

Here, use this one.

:firepettis

The Bus retied over two years ago.

cws05champ
06-07-2007, 12:12 AM
So if we fire Walker, Konerko is all of a sudden going to get red hot and start tearing the cover off the ball? Dye too? And Uribe will all of a sudden become an all star shortstop? I don't have an answer for Konerko or Dye, Konerko has historically been maddeningly streaky. He's only hit above .300 twice in his career...JD typically gets off to slow starts, he was this bad in 2005. And Uribe really isn't that good. I just dont think that firing Walker or Ozzie or even Kenny is going to solve anything for this team. Maybe at the end of the season one or all of them should lose their jobs, but not right now.

It seems like when hitting coaches get fired it at least puts a jolt into the team short term and they start hitting...and you never know, the hot streak may stick long term. Look what installing Jack Mckeon at manager did for the Marlins in 2003. I'm not saying Ozzie should be fired...but Walker's head is on the block right now and he is the one that has to go to see if it can energize the team.

MISoxfan
06-07-2007, 12:12 AM
Stop saying that I think we should keep Walker. I haven't even said anything one way or the other.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-07-2007, 12:12 AM
The whitesox have had pretty much the same offense in one fashion or another since 2000. They have scored similiar amounts of runs since 2000. Players, coaches, have changed. So again what is so special about Walker that we cant fire him. And how has his record been so good that we cant. The whitesox for years, have put up runs. If you take the pitching staff that we had in 05 and put that on a lot of those other teams we would of had a lot of better results. Before 2005 we lost because of a black hole in the 5th spot, and a propensity to try to homer our way to a division crown.

Good point.


:ohno
Jimbo's. October 3, 2000

Brian26
06-07-2007, 12:16 AM
Positives about this game:

-A beautiful night, temperature-wise, to be at the ballpark
-Nice to see a hint of the type of speed Owens can provide by legging out that infield single and then stealing second on his first chance.
-Mackowiak is really hitting the ball hard and playing good defense.
-Loved the way AJ ran out to shortstop in the rundown play, the way you're supposed to do it.

Melky Cabrera has a hell of an arm, and Razor Shines flat-out blew that call with Owens. Owens has incredible speed though...on Nook Logan's level. I just hope he can get on base.

Wang had thrown 83 pitches in the 8th inning. Would have liked to see the Sox batters try to work the count more on this guy.

WhiteSox5187
06-07-2007, 12:17 AM
Then just get rid of the coaches all together and the "fire so and so" nonsense stops. They apparently don't do anything anyway.
Well, I think that's over simplifying my arguement a bit much, don't you? My point was really, that you can take a guy like Casey Stengal or John McGraw or Connie Mack, whoever and put them with a lousy team and they will wind up sucking. They will wind up looking like a bad manager. At the same time you can take a guy like Larry Doby or Terry Bevington or the guy who managed the 1970 White Sox (his name elludes me at the moment) and put them in charge of the 1998 Yankees and they wind up looking like a genius because they have a great team. Obviously the White Sox don't win the World Series with Jerry Manuel at the helm in 2005. The question really of a manager is "Did he get the maximum performance out of his players?" And when you look at this team, when you look at a team that has Rob Mackowiak as a starting LF, Uribe as a starting SS and has lost a third of its opening day starting lineup to injury at somepoint, then I think you're looking at a .500 ball club and really that's what this team is playing like. Obviously some guys are under performing but there's enough time for JD and Paulie to finish up hitting .280 and even IF that is the case, I'm still not so sure that you have a playoff team or a better than .500 ballclub. My point is that this team as assembled right now is at best a .500 club regardless of the hitting coach or the manager. That doesn't mean that that can't change though.

MISoxfan
06-07-2007, 12:17 AM
The whitesox have had pretty much the same offense in one fashion or another since 2000. They have scored similiar amounts of runs since 2000. Players, coaches, have changed. So again what is so special about Walker that we cant fire him. And how has his record been so good that we cant. The whitesox for years, have put up runs. If you take the pitching staff that we had in 05 and put that on a lot of those other teams we would of had a lot of better results. Before 2005 we lost because of a black hole in the 5th spot, and a propensity to try to homer our way to a division crown.

Aside from the fact that I haven't weighed in on my personal feelings on whether or not we should fire our hitting coach; I can't look at this and not argue with it. The players and coaches and yet we still keep scoring the same ammount of runs so whats so special about Walker? Whats so special about anyone if you break it down like that. Maybe its the team, maybe the entity we recognize as the Chicago White Sox will go out and hit 200 hr's every season for us.

Brian26
06-07-2007, 12:20 AM
The whitesox have had pretty much the same offense in one fashion or another since 2000. They have scored similiar amounts of runs since 2000. Players, coaches, have changed. So again what is so special about Walker that we cant fire him. And how has his record been so good that we cant.

My line of thought is simply this: player skills can diminish a hell of a lot quicker than coaching skills. This is essentially the same team we had in 2005 (subsitute Rowand/Everett with Erstad/Thome).

Why are the guys who were knocking the cover off the ball only two years ago not producing now? Is it an erosion of skills due to age/injuries/luck? Or is it an erosion of Greg Walker's coaching ability? If you have to think about that answer for more than one second, you're clueless.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-07-2007, 12:21 AM
:therapy:

oeo
06-07-2007, 12:24 AM
My line of thought is simply this: player skills can diminish a hell of a lot quicker than coaching skills. This is essentially the same team we had in 2005 (subsitute Rowand/Everett with Erstad/Thome).

Why are the guys who were knocking the cover off the ball only two years ago not producing now? Is it an erosion of skills due to age/injuries/luck? Or is it an erosion of Greg Walker's coaching ability? If you have to think about that answer for more than one second, you're clueless.

I don't think it's either. Let's not forget that this team has always gone through these long slumps, for whatever reason. They will have weeks where they can hit anyone, and then weeks to months that they can't hit anyone. I don't know where you put that blame at, but I look to the hitting coach. I wanted him fired this year, and I wanted him fired last August, but the players seem to like him, so give him the rest of the year...if we still go through another long slump (that's if the bats ever catch fire) or we never get out of this, he needs to go at the end of the season.

StillMissOzzie
06-07-2007, 12:28 AM
Slightly off topic, but having seen him play stellar D for Toronto this past weekend, I feel this needs to be said.

:thechoice
Hey, any chance you could Photoshop a Blue Jay onto that hat?

Hawk, circa 2006 Hawk, circa 2007

:hawk :hawk

"They haven't hit their stride yet" "Oh, they're GONNA hit"

Hawk's mantras seem to reflect not only the current thinking of the Sox brass, but their wishful thinking as well. :?:

JD looks like he's aged 10 years in the last two. Nice salary drive for the big FA bucks, there. Crede's gimpy. PK is barely hitting his weight. Iguchi is also making a weak statement in his FA year. :angry:

It seems like half the starting lineup played in Charlotte to start the season, and half the bullpen that started with the big league club has been sent to Charlotte. This team is now upside down. :mad:

I'm not saying that it's Walker's fault, but I think that somebody is gonna be sacrificed upon the altar of "Well, we're doing SOMETHING" :rolleyes:

SMO
:gulp:

chisoxmike
06-07-2007, 12:34 AM
Our hitters are a lot like this...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ti_Hiayu3D0&mode=related&search=

viagracat
06-07-2007, 12:36 AM
Just got back from the game. The Sox looked about as lively as the cicadas--BEFORE they pop out of the ground.

Wake up boys. It ain't early anymore. :angry:

PaleHoseGeorge
06-07-2007, 12:37 AM
Hey, any chance you could Photoshop a Blue Jay onto that hat?

Close enough?

:mkillcub

JB98
06-07-2007, 12:39 AM
:firejerry

Lip Man 1
06-07-2007, 12:39 AM
Ozzie's comment to Mark Gonzales tonight basically says it all. "You can't put any emotion in when you don't get on base. It feels like nine dead people walking."

Icecz:

The last time the Sox came from behind to win a game when trailing going into the 7th inning or later was back on May 12th when they beat the Royals 5-4 in 10.

Uribe's double tied the game in the 9th inning.

Lip

SoxSpeed22
06-07-2007, 12:41 AM
You know it's not good when the MLB.com wrapup says "Too easy for Wang"

Foulke You
06-07-2007, 12:51 AM
PHG is trying to set a record for most WSI tags used in one thread.:tongue:

TheOldRoman
06-07-2007, 12:58 AM
I think we should hire TheOldRoman as hitting coach. :D:
No way, I am even less qualified than Walker. Plus, I would discipline our hitters for striking out the way we were disciplined in high school football for jumping offsides - I would crack them on the helmet with a sock full of nickels. I think that act would grow tiresome quickly with the players.

I will accept no job other than motivational speaker. I would be half Matt Foley, and half Kenny Williams (flipping over the buffet table).
http://www.cullmanlive.com/mattfoley/mfvan.jpg
"You'll have plenty of time to swing at balls in the dirt when you're LIVING IN A VAN DOWN BY THE RIVER!"

Martinigirl
06-07-2007, 01:06 AM
I am glad I am going out of town for a week for many reasons, but one of the main ones at this point is that I won't be able to see the Sox. It is like I can't stop torturing myself by watching the games when the are on, so for a week I won't have that problem because they won't be available to me.

Maybe, if I am not watching, something good will happen, because it sure the hell hasn't happened while I have been watching.

I really had high hopes for tonight, it is amazing how fast that can change. The second we get down by some runs, it is like the game is over. A 4 run deficit felt like 14. And it has felt this way for well over a week now. Watching the games isn't even remotely enjoyable right now.

It really is a good time to get away for a week. A lot can change in a week, I will just keep my fingers crossed that there is a positive change.

HITMEN OF 77
06-07-2007, 01:13 AM
:firejerry

LOL!! :D:

The Immigrant
06-07-2007, 01:18 AM
This team is deader than fried chicken.

kevingrt
06-07-2007, 01:30 AM
This pathetic-ness of the team is getting pretty reptitive.

slobes
06-07-2007, 01:34 AM
5 hits, none for extra bases. Make that the second game in a row without an extra base hit. Awesome.

DeadMoney
06-07-2007, 02:26 AM
This sucks!

Instead of the team slogan being We are Chicago Baseball, I propose a change to We play ****ty Baseball.

ThomesHomie
06-07-2007, 02:34 AM
I don't know but maybe other people are feeling like this. I really felt this way awhile back but things are changing, the few bad weeks could of been because of the hitters being in a slump but I really feel like something is not waking these guys up. Which makes me start to think.

I know the band wagoners will jump on this but is Ozzy not doing his job ? Is Walker not doing his job, the team is in a funk but it also takes some coaching to get out of it. Is the mood in the club house to relaxed ? Are we still hung over from 06 ? Something needs to happen, and I mean soon. Look at the cubs, not saying they have turned it around but from a quick glance, the whole suspension from Lou seemed to help.

Like someone else said, when does Ozzy light the fire under everyone ? Do you think he is doing so already, but just not showing it publicly ? I mean really, every other interview seems like a joke. Last night it was about Mark and his bottle of Champaign in the fridge.

Nellie_Fox
06-07-2007, 02:36 AM
We suck.Speak for yourself.

I'm curious whats our record after the Ozzie Guillen/Jay Marriotti *** exchange? It seems since then our team just hasn't looked right.Yeah, that's the problem.

Maybe we can get the "Big Hurt" back..219 .360 .380. Unfortunately, he'd fit right in. It's probably Walker's fault that Hurt isn't hitting either.

Medford Bobby
06-07-2007, 02:40 AM
:cool: Funny thing, fired up the XM sat at work, listened for about a half hour and got bored listening, turned on a tv in a classroom a little later on to catch the Arizona gals softball score, saw the Sox were losing on the sports ticker, continued to watch the Wildcats beat Tennessee, and did not even bother to listen to the west coast games....just shut off baseball totally........:o:

At least Milo Hamilton will be in town this weekend!!!:bandance: :wink:

Viva Medias B's
06-07-2007, 08:12 AM
I've got it! I know exactly how we'll solve our offensive problems!!! Since we're already re-fired Gary Ward, Von Joshua, Nardi Contreras, and Jerry Manuel, I'll take it a step further. It seemed to work (somewhat) for the Bears.

:fireshoop
:firejauron

Perhaps Rongey should have OB co-host the postgame show, and we'd hear something like this:

"There's something in baseball call THE HOME PLATE!!!!!"

UserNameBlank
06-07-2007, 08:59 AM
For those who want Walk fired, answer me this:

Whom would you replace him with?
How do you know Walk's would be replacement would improve things and get us back into the race?

1. Doesn't matter. Whoever the Sox think would be a decent option.
2. We don't. Walker may not be as bad as he's being made to look, but whenever teams with as much talent as we have fail as miserably as we have, heads roll. Usually it starts with management because it is much easier to replace one hitting coach than it is to turn over an entire team, especially in the middle of a season.

I dont' think that Greg Walker is really the problem. I think the problem is that one, we're injured. And two, we're really not that good...you have a bunch of guys on this team who can hit HRs and clog up the bases and that's it. Walker didn't get those guys, Kenny did. ANd truth be told, it's not Kenny's fault that they're all so banged up.
I agree to an extent on Walker. I think he needs to be removed from his position, more for the sake of change than anything else. Maybe he should be demoted and used in another capacity, be it the minor leagues or whatever works. It just isn't working and a message needs to be sent somehow, but the struggles of the team do not fall on his shoulders alone. That said, if the entire coaching staff was fired and replaced I still wouldn't be surprised to see the Sox continue to play .500 ball.

You are right in that we aren't that good, but your point about our offense is a little off. The truth is we don't have a lot of guys who can clog the bases and hit home runs. We have three that fit that description (Thome, Konerko, and Dye) but two of those players aren't clogging the bases or hitting home runs. The rest of the team is made up of players who are decent at their positions offensively (Iguchi, AJ) or inconsistent free swingers (Crede, Mackowiak, Erstad, Uribe).

I agree Kenny isn't responsible for the injuries really because that is the risk you take with older veteran players over inexperienced rookies in trying to build a championship team. It's easy for people to rip Kenny for the makeup of the team, but really, it's all a domino effect. If our top two hitters can't get on base, our middle of the order isn't dangerous. If our middle of the order can't be dangerous, then opposing pitchers can go right at them and instead of using that to their advantage and driving in runs, they have to try to get on base for the bottom of the lineup via the base hit. Then we get to the bottom of the lineup which is pretty much all automatic outs without men on base. A perfect example is Uribe, who is one of our more dangerous hitters when there are men on because of his tendency to be aggressive and because opposing pitchers are more prone to throw strikes with men on. With no one on Uribe is easy to pitch to because he'll chase a lot more.

This team needs more OBP at the top and bottom of the lineup and more speed to make the most out of scoring opportunities. During the first half of last year the 2-7 hitters were all very good so we were able to score a ton of runs, but as we've seen during the second half of last year and now in 2007, when those guys stop hitting we don't have sparkplugs anywhere else to get them going again.

:reinsy
"Have any of you guys ever checked into the costs of firing and hiring a hitting coach? I didn't think so."

"Next question."
Whatever the cost is, it has to be cheaper than paying about $27 million or so for the type of production we're getting out of Dye, Konerko, and Crede.

Hitmen77
06-07-2007, 09:21 AM
One problem is that guys like Walnuts and Dye aren't even getting on base to clog anything. Walker is probably not the cause of the problem, but he sure isn't close to being the solution at this point.

The fact that Pods, GrindErstad and Crede are banged up shouldn't come as a shock to KW.

I'll agree that we're just not very good, but someone should be held accountable for running a highly suspect 8,9, leadoff guy, plus 4-7 spots in the bullpen from the start this season. And hasn't corrected an inability for 90% of the team to hit the ball the other way or lay down a sac bunt.

How can you possibly sum up our hitting woes with a team who can hit HRs and clog up the bases. They aren't hitting HRs or clogging up the bases. They're hardly getting on base. If they were hitting HRs and clogging up the bases we'd be in a much better position.

...

If these guys were hitting the way they did last season or even at the career averages, there wouldn't even be a problem with the offense. Is this Walkers problem? I don't know, but if he doesn't at least share the blame then is there even a point to a hitting coach?

I haven't read all the posts here, but I agree with you guys on this one. I don't know if firing Walker now is the solution, but some people here make it sound like he's completely blameless. If so, then why even have a hitting coach if he has no accountability for the team's hitting performance. Just about every hitter on the team is hitting well below his career average - and well below the league average....and the hitting coach has no culpability whatsoever for this?:?:

Also, I think it's inaccurate to lay the blame on "base cloggers" as many people here seem to be doing. That could be a problem - but these guys aren't even getting on base!

spiffie
06-07-2007, 09:34 AM
Fire Walker, replace him with a set of Tom Emanski instructional dvd's. That way if the Sox don't improve after you fire Walker, all you have lost is $30 or so on the dvd's.

duke of dorwood
06-07-2007, 09:35 AM
Some sort of token move will be made either in coaching or the players and I really think we are about to embark on a streak of more wins than losses-thanks in part to Interleague play-that will have us in reach of Wild Card by the break.

That will really make the pre-trade deadline 2 weeks really interesting.

FedEx227
06-07-2007, 09:46 AM
One thing I was always curious about... I'm not leaning one way or the other on the whole Fire Greg Walker thing. But shouldn't he take the fall if the team isn't hitting, is that not his job? If not, then what is the hitting coaches job?

SBSoxFan
06-07-2007, 10:09 AM
I'm curious whats our record after the Ozzie Guillen/Jay Marriotti *** exchange? It seems since then our team just hasn't looked right.

You know, I was wondering that same thing. It seems something got lost after that. Ozzie's been neutered, and the Sox and baseball are worse because of it. Welcome back to the land of ossified managers and staged rants.

On the other hand, it doesn't explain the injuries, the bad bullpen, and the lack of hitting.

ChiSox Fan 68
06-07-2007, 10:24 AM
We are taking a week's vacation next week and heading to see the Sox in Philly and Pittsburgh. I really hope it isn't a completely depressing trip. Oh well, if so, at least we'll see two cool ballparks that we haven't seen before.

North Sox Sider
06-07-2007, 10:29 AM
I think the offense just needs a fresh prospective. I like Walker too, he is part of a great White Sox past and I would hate to see him go but the team doesn't seem to be doing anything different. We are not taking pitches at all and there doesn't seem to be any kind of fire from anyone. Dye and Konerko look like they have aged about 10 years lately. The injuries dont help but that isn't the whole story with this team. We need a fiery type player. Dare I say a Carl Everett type. Konereko is a great teammate I am sure but not captain material. They need better leadership in the clubhouse. I feel like I said this about the 2004 team too.

jenn2080
06-07-2007, 10:59 AM
That game sucked about as bad as the cicada night they had. Cicada night??? Who thought of that??? People racing around in black outfits with red things on their head. How embarassing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:rolleyes:

Chicken Dinner
06-07-2007, 11:27 AM
Should we all pitch in and by them a video?

http://www.beabetterhitter.com/

salty99
06-07-2007, 11:33 AM
That game sucked about as bad as the cicada night they had. Cicada night??? Who thought of that??? People racing around in black outfits with red things on their head. How embarassing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:rolleyes:

They showed that on the pre-game show and I thought that whoever came up with that should be fired immediately. Looked totally pathetic.

JorgeFabregas
06-07-2007, 11:34 AM
I think they played a cicada sound effect after one of Javy's early strikeouts, too.

salty99
06-07-2007, 11:36 AM
I think they played a cicada sound effect after one of Javy's early strikeouts, too.

Or maybe it was just the crickets since the crowd had no reason to get excited.

jenn2080
06-07-2007, 11:37 AM
They showed that on the pre-game show and I thought that whoever came up with that should be fired immediately. Looked totally pathetic.

I think they played a cicada sound effect after one of Javy's early strikeouts, too.

I am still shocked that they actually did that. It was horrible. FIRE THEM:angry: :redneck

Hitmen77
06-07-2007, 11:37 AM
They showed that on the pre-game show and I thought that whoever came up with that should be fired immediately. Looked totally pathetic.

Greg Walker came up with the idea. :tongue:

itsnotrequired
06-07-2007, 11:38 AM
That game sucked about as bad as the cicada night they had. Cicada night??? Who thought of that??? People racing around in black outfits with red things on their head. How embarassing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:rolleyes:

They showed that on the pre-game show and I thought that whoever came up with that should be fired immediately. Looked totally pathetic.

I am still shocked that they actually did that. It was horrible. FIRE THEM:angry: :redneck

I thought the promotion was great. All ya'll a bunch of haters.

jenn2080
06-07-2007, 11:40 AM
I thought the promotion was great. All ya'll a bunch of haters.


I am not surprised A. that your responded to this and B. that you thought it was great.

salty99
06-07-2007, 11:40 AM
I am not surprised A. that your responded to this and B. that you thought it was great.


C. That you attended the game :cool:

itsnotrequired
06-07-2007, 11:41 AM
I am not surprised A. that your responded to this and B. that you thought it was great.

Honestly, what was the problem with it? Sure, it was cornball but it was also fun.

Scottiehaswheels
06-07-2007, 11:45 AM
I think I'm gonna wear a bag on my head in Philly.... I'm really really tempted....

soxfanatlanta
06-07-2007, 11:46 AM
I think I'm gonna wear a bag on my head in Philly.... I'm really really tempted....

Be sure to poke holes in it, k?

Scottiehaswheels
06-07-2007, 11:48 AM
Be sure to poke holes in it, k?:D: I'm not THAT depressed

ChiSox Fan 68
06-07-2007, 11:50 AM
I think I'm gonna wear a bag on my head in Philly.... I'm really really tempted....

Sounds like a good plan. Look for me - I'll be the one in the Crede jersey and the Whole Foods shopping bag on my head.

Scottiehaswheels
06-07-2007, 11:53 AM
And just for those that think I'm being a dark cloud, I'm not really.... I was there in Oakland last year when we had a great chance to make the post season and watched us play almost as bad then as now.... We're just ABSOLUTELY lifeless right now.... It's embarrassing...

salty99
06-07-2007, 12:03 PM
Maybe you can wear the cicada head from that promotion last night.

Scottiehaswheels
06-07-2007, 12:06 PM
If I do it, I'll be on TV for sure most of the game.. Sitting 2 rows behind the Sox dugout.....

itsnotrequired
06-07-2007, 12:22 PM
I think I'm gonna wear a bag on my head in Philly.... I'm really really tempted....

Bags on heads is a time-honored Sox tradition.

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/4121/sox220065yn2.jpg

palehozenychicty
06-07-2007, 01:01 PM
The thing is the Sox were a average hitting team in 05 we won in spite of Walker.


This is what people forget. The only difference I remember is that we had key hits when we needed them. That year the o was pretty bad in stretches as well. These guys have no plate perspective and when they're bad, they're really bad.

IndianWhiteSox
06-07-2007, 01:07 PM
The thing is the Sox were a average hitting team in 05 we won in spite of Walker.

I think this should be my new sig.....
:cool:

JB98
06-07-2007, 01:12 PM
I think this should be my new sig.....
:cool:

Well, the idea of trying to will Vazquez to 20 wins hasn't worked out too well so far.

IndianWhiteSox
06-07-2007, 01:21 PM
Well, the idea of trying to will Vazquez to 20 wins hasn't worked out too well so far.

Sad, but true.
:(:

balke
06-07-2007, 02:41 PM
I really hope Fields hits for the sake of history. This would be one of the most painful seasons to look back on, if all 4 top prospects come up and show they aren't MLB ready.

chisoxmike
06-07-2007, 11:59 PM
That game sucked about as bad as the cicada night they had. Cicada night??? Who thought of that??? People racing around in black outfits with red things on their head. How embarassing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:rolleyes:

That was awful and embarrassing. Even though they play like the KC Royals, they should still act like a major market team.

Nellie_Fox
06-08-2007, 02:27 AM
Bags on heads is lame. If you're ashamed to support your team, stay the hell home.

oeo
06-08-2007, 02:32 AM
That was awful and embarrassing. Even though they play like the KC Royals, they should still act like a major market team.

Oh God, who cares? I didn't even hear anything about it until now. They didn't use it to put people in the seats, it was just a fun/silly "promotion". How does that embarrass you? I think it's pretty funny...if anyone has anything to say about it, who cares?

Cicada Night is not embarrassing; having your fans run onto the field...that's embarrassing.

itsnotrequired
06-08-2007, 11:51 AM
Bags on heads is lame. If you're ashamed to support your team, stay the hell home.

When one is wearing a reindeer costume at the game, all bets are off.

:D:

UserNameBlank
06-08-2007, 12:03 PM
Bagheads are funny as all hell and I will LMAO if a bunch of Sox fans start showing up to games wearing them. They're still spending the money and supporting the team, they just are making it known they don't like what's going on. I'd like to see some bagheads behind home plate too in the scout seats so they would be on camera all the time. Oh! And we should do a sausage race kind of like the Brewers but instead of meat products we should have some bagheads running with each individual baghead representing someone out of our bullpen.

But if this team is blown up and some good young players are brought in, then the bagheads should disppear IMO.

Nellie_Fox
06-09-2007, 01:31 AM
Bagheads are funny as all hell and I will LMAO if a bunch of Sox fans start showing up to games wearing them. They're still spending the money and supporting the team, they just are making it known they don't like what's going on.First, no it's not funny; it's old and unoriginal. Second, they're not just saying they don't like what's going on, they're saying they don't want to be able to be identified as a fan of the team. I've never been "ashamed" to be a fan of the Sox. If you are, then you are truly a front-runner.

DrewSox56
06-09-2007, 01:38 AM
First, no it's not funny; it's old and unoriginal. Second, they're not just saying they don't like what's going on, they're saying they don't want to be able to be identified as a fan of the team. I've never been "ashamed" to be a fan of the Sox. If you are, then you are truly a front-runner.

With all due respect, I don't agree with you.

Re-read what he said.

At the games.

Ticket purchasers.

Showing our displeasure (and in a weird way - support). A bandwagoner doesn't show at all when we're playing like this.

Nellie_Fox
06-09-2007, 01:44 AM
With all due respect, I don't agree with you.

Re-read what he said.

At the games.

Ticket purchasers.

Showing our displeasure (and in a weird way - support). A bandwagoner doesn't show at all when we're playing like this.Disagree all you want. Baghead is old, overused, unoriginal and is intended to send a message that I don't like.

It might have been cute and original when it was first done, oh, almost 30 years ago, when the New Orleans Saints fans started it. It got less and less so as the fans of team after team after team did it since. Think up something new.

DrewSox56
06-09-2007, 01:53 AM
Disagree all you want. Baghead is old, overused, unoriginal and is intended to send a message that I don't like.

It might have been cute and original when it was first done, oh, almost 30 years ago, when the New Orleans Saints fans started it. It got less and less so as the fans of team after team after team did it since. Think up something new.

No.

Stop sucking.

I'm paying for this - so are you (maybe). Repeat mistakes are unacceptable. Fix the problem, if you REALLY mean what you've said. I see the payroll, ticket prices... pending FA problems - not the results.

Unacceptable.

The Sox should be paying for the goddamn bags, now that I think about it.

A little note on the inside: "Please do not use until the 7th".

Nellie_Fox
06-09-2007, 01:57 AM
No.

Stop sucking.

I'm paying for this - so are you (maybe). Repeat mistakes are unacceptable. Fix the problem, if you REALLY mean what you've said. I see the payroll, ticket prices... pending FA problems - not the results.

Unacceptable.

The Sox should be paying for the goddamn bags, now that I think about it.

A little note on the inside: "Please do not use until the 7th".I don't disagree with your right to be disappointed. That's not what I objected to, and I'm not going to re-state my objections to bagheads. Do what you want, and I'll think of you what I want.

DrewSox56
06-09-2007, 02:15 AM
I don't disagree with your right to be disappointed. That's not what I objected to, and I'm not going to re-state my objections to bagheads. Do what you want, and I'll think of you what I want.

Fair enough, both ways.