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View Full Version : Why the change in philosophy?


SoxxoS
06-04-2007, 03:47 PM
I was just reading in the Sun Times a week back that KW is getting more involved in scouting and player development b/c he isn't happy with the recent drafts.

Why have the Sox been taking low risk/low ceiling guys (Broadway/McCollough/Ring) recently?

Is it becasue they were burned by all those "high ceiling" arms back in 2000 (West/Wright/Myette/Malone/Honel et al.)??

Thoughts?

California Sox
06-04-2007, 04:59 PM
Last year's draft absolutely blew. 2005 isn't much better. Take a look at Garza of the Twins and Clay Buchholtz of the Red Sox then look at Broadway and realize that Broadway was picked way before either of them. The safe approach hasn't gotten the Sox value, something needed to change.

jabrch
06-05-2007, 12:06 PM
Last year's draft absolutely blew.

It's way to freaking early to draw that conclusion.

2005 isn't much better.

And it is probably too early for that one as well.

chaerulez
06-05-2007, 04:40 PM
It's way to freaking early to draw that conclusion.



And it is probably too early for that one as well.

It's to early to make any definitive conclusions. However, from what we know as of right now, Garza and Bucholtz are looking like to be pro pitchers than Broadway. Not to say Broadway won't be a decent major leaguer, it doesn't appear he will have the ceiling of the other two.

California Sox
06-05-2007, 05:12 PM
It's way to freaking early to draw that conclusion.



And it is probably too early for that one as well.

Okay, if it's too early to draw conclusions about the last two drafts, why do you suppose Kenny chewed out the scouting department and insisted on changes? For drafting Fields in 2004?

Daver
06-05-2007, 05:56 PM
Okay, if it's too early to draw conclusions about the last two drafts, why do you suppose Kenny chewed out the scouting department and insisted on changes? For drafting Fields in 2004?


For the fact that nothing drafted since 2000, when he was in charge of the draft himself, has produced much.

jabrch
06-06-2007, 09:32 AM
It's to early to make any definitive conclusions. However, from what we know as of right now, Garza and Bucholtz are looking like to be pro pitchers than Broadway. Not to say Broadway won't be a decent major leaguer, it doesn't appear he will have the ceiling of the other two.

So two teams made picks that have gotten to the bigs before ours did - come on - that's not how you evaluate a draft that is only 1 or 2 years old. Heck, they all passed on Escobar who the braves took in the second round and is already up playing well in the bigs. We can go on and on if that's how you want to evaluate a draft...

Okay, if it's too early to draw conclusions about the last two drafts, why do you suppose Kenny chewed out the scouting department and insisted on changes? For drafting Fields in 2004?

I have no idea what KW said to the scouting department, or why he said it. But I highly doubt he was criticizing last year's draft for not yielding big leaguers yet.

You want to evaluate a draft - look at 2004. That's a few years in already. Fields, Gio, Liotta, Lucy, Harrell, Russell - and that's just the first 4 rounds.

So Cla Meredith beat them all to the bigs - big deal - it's far to early to evaluate either 2006 or 2005 drafts with any sort of reasonable accuracy.

jabrch
06-06-2007, 09:35 AM
For the fact that nothing drafted since 2000, when he was in charge of the draft himself, has produced much.

2004 looks like a decent draft - will take one or two more years to know for sure - right?

SoxxoS
06-06-2007, 09:39 AM
You want to evaluate a draft - look at 2004. That's a few years in already. Fields, Gio, Liotta, Lucy, Harrell, Russell - and that's just the first 4 rounds.
.

Where is Liotta right now? Is he recovering from surgery of something - I cant find anything on him.

flamethrower
06-06-2007, 12:25 PM
Where is Liotta right now? Is he recovering from surgery of something - I cant find anything on him.
Liotta is in extended spring training. His shoulder was bothering him in st but I don't think he had surgery on it...

California Sox
06-06-2007, 10:49 PM
So two teams made picks that have gotten to the bigs before ours did - come on - that's not how you evaluate a draft that is only 1 or 2 years old. Heck, they all passed on Escobar who the braves took in the second round and is already up playing well in the bigs. We can go on and on if that's how you want to evaluate a draft...



I have no idea what KW said to the scouting department, or why he said it. But I highly doubt he was criticizing last year's draft for not yielding big leaguers yet.

You want to evaluate a draft - look at 2004. That's a few years in already. Fields, Gio, Liotta, Lucy, Harrell, Russell - and that's just the first 4 rounds.

So Cla Meredith beat them all to the bigs - big deal - it's far to early to evaluate either 2006 or 2005 drafts with any sort of reasonable accuracy.

My comments about those drafts have nothing to do with other teams getting players to the majors. It had to do with how those drafts have been perceived around baseball and I think by the Sox themselves. They were a couple of safe drafts with low-ceiling, experienced players. If you look at McCulloch, Broadway, Getz, Brooks, etc. there's not a lot to dream on. They're not number 1 starters or closers or cleanup hitters or all star types. I think the best player in the 2005 class is likely to be Carter and he's a 15th rounder who's best position is hitting.

This year the Sox are going to try to mix in a few higher ceiling high school guys. The busts won't make it out of A ball, but hopefully a couple will hit and become top end players.

DumpJerry
06-06-2007, 11:31 PM
It's always easy to use 20/20 hindsight to point out guys that were passed over.

Remember, Joe Montana was selected in the third round. Everyone, even the Bears, passed on him at least twice.

California Sox
06-07-2007, 12:30 AM
I'm not second guessing. I complained about the early rounds of the last two drafts the day of. But the topic of the thread is "Why are the Sox changing their philosophy?" The answer is "The philosophy they had was not working." I think that's Kenny's position. And why was the philosophy not working? Because they were taking guys who were polished but not athletic over guys with more tools who maybe needed to learn more. The last two drafts are extreme examples of that, in my opinion. If someone wants to point to the high ceiling guys the Sox have selected in the first few rounds of the last two drafts that I have overlooked I would be more than happy to change my opinion.