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View Full Version : Dye for Abreu? Is it super rumor time already?!


Fenway
06-02-2007, 04:25 PM
Poll: Bobby Abreu for Jermaine Dye? (http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=104040)


Dye may have his problems this year but Abreau has forgotten out to play period.

IndianWhiteSox
06-02-2007, 04:29 PM
Poll: Bobby Abreu for Jermaine Dye? (http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=104040)


Dye may have his problems this year but Abreau has forgotten out to play period.

They must really hate Abreu right now. Although considering the fact that stupid KW fleeced the Yankees, what does that say about Cashman?
:tongue:

gosiu
06-02-2007, 05:19 PM
They must really hate Abreu right now. Although considering the fact that stupid KW fleeced the Yankees, what does that say about Cashman?
:tongue:


How did Contreras do today?

Anyway, a trade between two struggling (or one struggling and one semi-struggling) RFs in the final year of their deals. Eh, it should be considered, if New York would pick up the difference in salary.

HotelWhiteSox
06-02-2007, 06:19 PM
I would hope that KW is looking into other things for this team instead of something as worthless as that

Tragg
06-02-2007, 10:00 PM
Abreu's one of those players whose team is always looking to trade him even when he has good numbers.


(Carlos Lee's another one - we trade him, Milwaukee dumps him and Texas doesn't try real hard to keep him).

DSpivack
06-03-2007, 02:34 AM
Abreu's one of those players whose team is always looking to trade him even when he has good numbers.


(Carlos Lee's another one - we trade him, Milwaukee dumps him and Texas doesn't try real hard to keep him).

Milwaukee couldn't afford El Caballo and Houston was desperate for offense; Texas was not. Abreu isn't leading the NL in RBIs.

TheOldRoman
06-03-2007, 02:41 AM
How did Contreras do today?

Anyway, a trade between two struggling (or one struggling and one semi-struggling) RFs in the final year of their deals. Eh, it should be considered, if New York would pick up the difference in salary.:rolleyes:
You are right. Contreras had a mediocre game, so the trade sucked. 2005 was meaningless. Oh, and if he doesn't throw a no-hitter next time out, cut his ass.

BeviBall!
06-03-2007, 09:58 AM
How did Contreras do today?

:dtroll: Jose for Loaiza is one of the most lopsided trades in this town's history. We have a ring and what was it -- 18 consecutive wins?

chaerulez
06-03-2007, 12:09 PM
:dtroll: Jose for Loaiza is one of the most lopsided trades in this town's history. We have a ring and what was it -- 18 consecutive wins?

Agreed, Jose could do terrible for the rest of his White Sox career and it's still a huge win for us. Loaiza was garbage in his entire Yankee career, while we got a key player in our World Series run, plus he was good in the first half of 2006.

UserNameBlank
06-03-2007, 12:19 PM
Their line of thinking most likely came from this (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/) post at MLBtraderumors.com, which was taken from a video by Ken Rosenthal:

About ten days ago, the White Sox kicked around the idea of sending Dye to the Yankees for Bobby Abreu. The Yanks covet Dye's right-handed power, and Ozzie loves Abreu, his countryman. Rosenthal says the White Sox like the option of keeping Abreu for $16MM in '08 if they so choose. That option comes with a $2MM buyout attached. The Dye/Abreu swap may be on hold because Dye is finally showing some signs of life.

I can't believe KW would be that stupid. Sure, Abreu could possibly maybe kind of sort of come back to post something respectable, but no way in hell do I take that chance. At least not unless the Yanks picked up the option before the trade and then picked up a bunch of salary from this year and next. But why would the Yanks do that? They are in a bad spot just like we are so Dye might not be so useful for them, plus they have that $2mil buyout after the season. Makes no sense. Methinks Rosenthal has hit the crackpipe.

One interesting note is this though:

Other suitors for Dye: the Padres or Dodgers. The two NL West competitors rank 10th and 12th in the league in slugging, respectively. No doubt the Dodgers have the goods, but what reasonable trade could the Padres work out?

I don't see a fit with the Pads, but the Dodgers make me salivate. Just about anything that nets us Billingsley is a green light in my book, but that is pretty unlikely. They could use Crede as a short term solution if they think he'll turn it around, and maybe Contreras or Buehrle if they wanted to make an already nasty rotation into a serious WS rotation, but would they give up that much?

balke
06-03-2007, 01:05 PM
I'd like abreu in the lineup. He's hit .300 with a +.400 OBP about every year of his career, and he's got double power, and steals bases. He'd probably hit more HR's here.

Mr. White Sox
06-04-2007, 09:20 AM
Per Rotoworld:
According to the Chicago Sun-Times, the White Sox and Yankees have discussed a trade that would swap Jermaine Dye for Bobby Abreu.
The newspaper quotes "one White Sox source close to the situation" as saying that the deal "has started to take on some life." ''You're paid to work for a team for whatever period of time, give 100 percent to that club, and if you get dealt away, give 100 percent to the next club," Dye said. Jun. 4 - 8:44 am et


LINK (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/413028,CST-SPT-dye04.article)

I doubt this ever happens, but it sure makes for interesting water-cooler talk.

Madvora
06-04-2007, 09:25 AM
What's the point of trading one underperforming outfielder for another?
It looks like Abreu is up at the end of the year too.

balke
06-04-2007, 09:30 AM
It'd be nice to see the Sox acquire someone who they can have playing next season (I heard he has an option in his contract). Possibly they could get a second player out of the deal.

Dye is better with the glove and at his best a better power bat, but Abreu will add hits and speed. He'd have a little more power in U.S. Cellular.
EDIT: Actually, Abreu probably has better power too. This trade would greatly benefit the Sox.

I'd like to see someone with a good avg. and OBP on the team. The Sox already have Konerko and Thome who can launch baseballs, and for now Crede who can do the same.

Noneck
06-04-2007, 10:23 AM
What is Abreu's current contract situation?

spiffie
06-04-2007, 10:29 AM
Abreu 2007: 209 AB, 51 H, 9 2B, 2 HR, 45 K, 244/331/316
2007: $15 million, 2008: $16 million club option

No thanks. If we're going to trade Dye, get something that might help us long term, not a highly paid OF on the downside of his career.

The Immigrant
06-04-2007, 10:33 AM
The only way we get Abreu is if (a) the Yankees throw in some serious cash to cover the remainder of that $15 million contract and (b) a reasonable contract extension with Ozzie's Venezuelan buddy Bobby is agreed upon in advance, kind of like with Freddy in 2004.

I'd like to see it happen, but I'm not holding my breath.

balke
06-04-2007, 10:34 AM
Abreu 2007: 209 AB, 51 H, 9 2B, 2 HR, 45 K, 244/331/316
2007: $15 million, 2008: $16 million club option

No thanks. If we're going to trade Dye, get something that might help us long term, not a highly paid OF on the downside of his career.

Unless we get a cash break on that. Dye will make that or more in the offseason, and Abreu is more of what this team needs. Sox gotta lock down a stud outfielder, even if he is old. What else are they gonna do next season? Pods, Owens, Sweeney? 20 HR's total, and a .260 avg at best between them?

roadrunner
06-04-2007, 10:38 AM
This trade makes no sense to me either for the short term or the long term. I would be unbelievably pissed if JD was traded for an unlikeable stiff. Young players have to be the bounty for JD.

spiffie
06-04-2007, 10:39 AM
Unless we get a cash break on that. Dye will make that or more in the offseason, and Abreu is more of what this team needs. Sox gotta lock down a stud outfielder, even if he is old. What else are they gonna do next season? Pods, Owens, Sweeney? 20 HR's total, and a .260 avg at best between them?
Dye will not make more than 16 million a season in FA. I would bet on that one until the cows come home.

And in this scenario we have one of two choices, either spend $16 million renting a possibly good OF for one season, a season that isn't very promising, or give an older OF a giant contract extension in the hopes he'll return to form as he moves into his mid-30's. I see no way in which this is a good thing.

balke
06-04-2007, 10:50 AM
Dye will not make more than 16 million a season in FA. I would bet on that one until the cows come home.

And in this scenario we have one of two choices, either spend $16 million renting a possibly good OF for one season, a season that isn't very promising, or give an older OF a giant contract extension in the hopes he'll return to form as he moves into his mid-30's. I see no way in which this is a good thing.

Dye is a gold glove outfielder who was in the MVP running last season. He'll make 14 million at least. Yanks would probably be throwing cash in on the deal. There's no real age difference, and I don't think Abreu is on the downside of anything but this season. I'm shocked so many people think that. 1/3 of a season discounts the previous 9 full seasons?

Why not get the outfielder with the better overall bat and then sign HIM to the extension?

spiffie
06-04-2007, 11:02 AM
Dye is a gold glove outfielder who was in the MVP running last season. He'll make 14 million at least. Yanks would probably be throwing cash in on the deal. There's no real age difference, and I don't think Abreu is on the downside of anything but this season. I'm shocked so many people think that. 1/3 of a season discounts the previous 9 full seasons?

Why not get the outfielder with the better overall bat and then sign HIM to the extension?
Because right now this team doesn't appear to be a team looking to strongly contend in 2008. So now we're signing him to an extension, spending $15-16 million a year on an OF who at that point is 35 entering the 2009 season, and 36 entering 2010, at which point we're hoping our young talent (Fields, Sweeney, Gonzalez, Broadway, etc.) will be mature enough to contend.

I'd rather save the cash, get young players back for Dye, and commit the money it would take on someone who might have a longer window. To me Abreu only makes sense if you think you're going to be contending in 2008. Otherwise you're going to end up on the hook for him through 2010 or 2011 most likely, and I don't want to be paying $16 million a year to a 37 year old OF at that point.

balke
06-04-2007, 11:13 AM
Because right now this team doesn't appear to be a team looking to strongly contend in 2008. So now we're signing him to an extension, spending $15-16 million a year on an OF who at that point is 35 entering the 2009 season, and 36 entering 2010, at which point we're hoping our young talent (Fields, Sweeney, Gonzalez, Broadway, etc.) will be mature enough to contend.

I'd rather save the cash, get young players back for Dye, and commit the money it would take on someone who might have a longer window. To me Abreu only makes sense if you think you're going to be contending in 2008. Otherwise you're going to end up on the hook for him through 2010 or 2011 most likely, and I don't want to be paying $16 million a year to a 37 year old OF at that point.


I'd like to see the Sox still try to contend since they've already invested in Thome and Konerko. Keep a great triangle of power in the middle of the order, have Owens or Pods at the top of the order, and try to win next season one more time.

Getting a great OFer cheap for a high priced player entering free agency is tougher that it sounds. And Dye and Abreu are the same age, so between them that isn't a factor.

Do you really want to see Pods (or owens or Sweeney), Erstad, X-factor OF prospect next season?

Sargeant79
06-04-2007, 11:23 AM
Dye is a gold glove outfielder who was in the MVP running last season. He'll make 14 million at least. Yanks would probably be throwing cash in on the deal. There's no real age difference, and I don't think Abreu is on the downside of anything but this season. I'm shocked so many people think that. 1/3 of a season discounts the previous 9 full seasons?

Why not get the outfielder with the better overall bat and then sign HIM to the extension?

At that price, I don't think it would be a financially sound decision to sign either of them. Dye isn't a gold glover anymore. Abreu's defense isn't any better. They're different types of offensive players who are both about the same age and have similar contract prospects after this year.

If Dye is being moved, I'd rather see it done in exchange for prospects. If the Sox are out of contention, they need to get younger and cheaper. Abreu doesn't do anything to help that out.

roadrunner
06-04-2007, 11:31 AM
Do you really want to see Pods (or owens or Sweeney), Erstad, X-factor OF prospect next season?

Hell no. I don't want to see an overpriced Abreau out there either. I want to see X-factor OF prospect (Owens or Sweeney), big free agent pick up (Ichiro, A. Jones, possibly T Hunter), and mid-level free agent pick up(J Guillen, E Byrnes or Rowand type - these are just examples so chill). Pods/erstad would then be useful as platoon/insurance/4th outfielder/pinch runner.

spiffie
06-04-2007, 11:40 AM
I'd like to see the Sox still try to contend since they've already invested in Thome and Konerko. Keep a great triangle of power in the middle of the order, have Owens or Pods at the top of the order, and try to win next season one more time.

Getting a great OFer cheap for a high priced player entering free agency is tougher that it sounds. And Dye and Abreu are the same age, so between them that isn't a factor.

Do you really want to see Pods (or owens or Sweeney), Erstad, X-factor OF prospect next season?
Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing them try to move Thome this offseason is things continue down this terrible path.

To me if you want to try and turn this mess around into a true WS contender for next season, you need a lot of parts, and spending $16 million on Bobby Abreu is not the way to use those resources. Especially since if you sign Abreu you likely kiss Buehrle goodbye. So next year we have:
Lineup: Pods/Owens/Sweeney/, Iguchi/Cintron, Konerko, Thome, Abreu, AJ, Crede/Fields, Anderson/Erstad, Uribe/Cintron/Valido
Rotation: Garland, Contreras, Vazquez, Danks, Broadway/Floyd/Gonzalez
Bullpen: Jenks/Thornton/?/?/?/?

That doesn't look very promising to me. Especially when it means that the Sox would have 70 million tied up in 6 players (Thome-8M with Phillies money, Konerko-12M, Vazquez-11.5M, Garland 12M, Contreras-10M, Abreu-16M). Add in AJ at 5.5 or 6M (depending on games started) and now you're at $76 million in 7 guys. Crede is likely another 5-6 million, and Uribe's option is $5M. So now to keep the core of this team that right now is just terrible looking, only replacing Dye with Abreu, would be running 85 million. And then you're sprinkling in 15 or so young low-paid players most likely. That sounds like a recipe for a very bad year.

infohawk
06-04-2007, 11:43 AM
I'm going to defend a Dye for Abreu trade based upon the following two presuppositions:

KW has not given up on this season.
The Sox offensive woes are the result of too many players without plate discipline.If KW were to trade Dye for young prospects, it would be a pretty clear sign that he was giving up on this season. The team's offensive troubles are because they have a line-up of impatient hackers who swing at too many pitches out of the zone. Adding an Abreu would provide another hitter, besides Thome, who has a sense of the strikezone. Abreu isn't hitting well so far this year, but even so his .OBP is no worse than league average (and more than 30 points higher than Dye's). If KW can add one or two more guys like that by the trade deadline, the team could improve significantly.

spiffie
06-04-2007, 11:55 AM
I'm going to defend a Dye for Abreu trade based upon the following two presuppositions:

KW has not given up on this season.
The Sox offensive woes are the result of too many players without plate discipline.If KW were to trade Dye for young prospects, it would be a pretty clear sign that he was giving up on this season. The team's offensive troubles are because they have a line-up of impatient hackers who swing at too many pitches out of the zone. Adding an Abreu would provide another hitter, besides Thome, who has a sense of the strikezone. Abreu isn't hitting well so far this year, but even so his .OBP is no worse than league average (and more than 30 points higher than Dye's). If KW can add one or two more guys like that by the trade deadline, the team could improve significantly.
I don't disagree with this, but I feel like this trade, without other significant moves to shore up the bullpen, would just be rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. The season isn't dead, but I fear it would take some massive changes to get this ship righted.

DickAllen72
06-04-2007, 11:59 AM
Dye, Crede and Buehrle for Abreu, A-Rod, Cabrera and $$$$ would be interesting. :cool:

WhiffleBall
06-04-2007, 12:34 PM
Dye, Crede and Buehrle for Abreu, A-Rod, Cabrera and $$$$ would be interesting. :cool:

Phil Roger's talked about a Buehrle/Crede for ARod/Cabrera trade in the Sunday Trib sports section. I would gladly relegate my replica Crede jersey to the back of the closet for that trade.

roadrunner
06-04-2007, 12:35 PM
Dye, Crede and Buehrle for Abreu, A-Rod, Cabrera and $$$$ would be interesting. :cool:

Now we're talking. I would subtract Abreu and be willing to throw in whoever they want from Sisco, Aardsma, McDougal, Uribe (with ARod at short), Mackowiak, and Cintron. (I don't think any of these players would sweeten the deal all that much - just sayin.) I would also consider throwing in Vazquez or Contreras if needed to free up cash for offseason fun and if they believe one of the young arms (Floyd,Gonzalez,Broadway) will be ready next year.

An outfield of the future consisting of: Cabrera, Owens/Sweeney/Anderson, and a big free agent pickup this offseason (Ichiro,A Jones,T Hunter). A fast athletic outfield with good arms that would really help the pitching staff. We would have a centerfield quality defender at every outfield postion. They would also be great at the top of the order and dangerous on the basepaths.

I admit I am especially jonesing for Cabrera because of what I saw earlier this season. I was at a game when both Erstad and Ozuna had opportunities to go to third on singles to Cabrera in center (less than two outs). Both of them declined. I couldn't believe that Ozuna of all runners didn't challenge him. He must have a cannon. That's the type of outfielder any team needs.

MRM
06-04-2007, 01:41 PM
Now we're talking. I would be willing to throw in whoever they want from Sisco, Aardsma, McDougal, Uribe (with ARod at short), Mackowiak, and Cintron. (I don't think any of these players would sweeten the deal all that much - just sayin.) I would also consider throwing in Vazquez or Contreras if needed to free up cash for offseason fun

Ummm, the Yankees have already had both Vazquez and Contreras and paid money to GET RID OF THEM.

roadrunner
06-04-2007, 02:24 PM
Ummm, the Yankees have already had both Vazquez and Contreras and paid money to GET RID OF THEM.

Ummmm, that's why they're listed as possible throw ins if they want them. Also, they are in a different situation than they were when they got rid of them.

getonbckthr
06-04-2007, 02:31 PM
I say no to this for one reason and one reason only I would rather spend the money we would have to spend on Abreu on Ichiro.

Jjav829
06-04-2007, 03:18 PM
It'd be nice to see the Sox acquire someone who they can have playing next season (I heard he has an option in his contract). Possibly they could get a second player out of the deal.

Dye is better with the glove and at his best a better power bat, but Abreu will add hits and speed. He'd have a little more power in U.S. Cellular.
EDIT: Actually, Abreu probably has better power too. This trade would greatly benefit the Sox.

I'd like to see someone with a good avg. and OBP on the team. The Sox already have Konerko and Thome who can launch baseballs, and for now Crede who can do the same.

Not even close. Abreu's power is gone. He has 2 HRs this season. Dye has 10. Abreu had 15 HRs last season (in 156 games). Dye had 44 (in 146 games). In 2005, Abreu had 24 HRs. That was the year where he had that big HR Derby and then completely lost his power stroke, hitting only 6 HRs after the AS break. He hasn't been the same since. Dye had 31 HRs that year.

Just to expand on that, since the 2005 All-Star break, Bobby Abreu has 23 HRs. Dye in that same time span? 66 HRs! Dye has almost 3 times as many homers as Abreu. And Abreu has never really been a big power hitter. He's hit 26 or more HRs only twice in his career.

Unless we get a cash break on that. Dye will make that or more in the offseason, and Abreu is more of what this team needs. Sox gotta lock down a stud outfielder, even if he is old. What else are they gonna do next season? Pods, Owens, Sweeney? 20 HR's total, and a .260 avg at best between them?

Abreu isn't a stud outfielder. And he's only "locked down" for one more year, and that's only if the team exercises an enormous option for $18 million (he's not worth it).

Yes, this team needs to secure the outfield for the future, but the time for that is this offseason when the market is loaded with names like Ichiro, Hunter, Andruw Jones, Cameron, Rowand, Byrnes, Patterson, Dye and, if Kenny wants him that much, probably even Abreu given the way he is hitting 1/3 of the way into the season.

This rumored deal makes no sense. Abreu is the epitomy of everything Ozzie and Kenny don't like in players. He is the anti-grinder...and he isn't even producing enough to where they would accept that.

Here's one scout's recent take on Abreu:
Abreu, in particular, has baffled the scout, who said, "It looks like he's never played the game before in his life." Having watched several Yankees games during the past month, the scout can't figure out how Abreu has dropped off as severely as he has this season. "I'm as confused as you are; he looks like a piece of garbage," the scout said. "I keep looking and trying to find reasons, but I have no explanation. All I know is that he's not doing the job."

DickAllen72
06-04-2007, 03:31 PM
If Abreu is looking as bad as has been reported here, yet nobody can put their finger on why, I'd like to see the Sox take a chance on him if they can pick him up without giving up much talent (not straight up for Dye).

Stick him in LF and let him lead off. Maybe getting out of NY and with his buddy Ozzie can snap him out of it. If he was on the juice his power may not return but he always had a great OBP and he has always been a pretty good base stealer. Maybe they can catch lightning in a bottle.

Paulwny
06-04-2007, 03:39 PM
If Abreu is looking as bad as has been reported here, yet nobody can put their finger on why, I'd like to see the Sox take a chance on him if they can pick him up without giving up much talent (not straight up for Dye).
.



NY feels they're still in the wild card race, they won't give up Abreu for minor league talent, they're looking to improve.
If they feel they're out of the race, later, then maybe they'd be interested in a salary dump.

BlackAndWhite
06-04-2007, 03:55 PM
Hell no. I don't want to see an overpriced Abreau out there either.

http://argoul.blog.lemonde.fr/files/2007/01/noah-hattaway-atreyu-balafre-histoire-sans-fin.jpg

He doesn't look like a power hitter to me.

...oh, you said Abreu...:tongue:

balke
06-04-2007, 04:05 PM
Not even close. Abreu's power is gone.

Yeah those are great stats. Jermaine Dye had a great season last season (the only season he's ever hit over 33 HR's). He can hit hr's. We have a lot of players that can hit HR's. Hr's is not the issue at hand for the Sox. They need someone who can hit the baseball a lot. With the exception of 50 games this season, Abreu has hit the ball extremely well his entire career.

His power is not "GONE", its transferred into doubles. 41 last season. He Swiped 30 bags while doing it. Your definition of power hitter might be Homerun hitter, but that's not necessarily mine.

You can glorify Jermaine all you want, and rightfully so. He had a great year last year, and the only thing he can do right now is hit HR's for the Sox. I think he's at his PEAK for trading for someone talented who can offer the Sox what they need.

The Sox need someone who can hit, and not just go yard. JD's career avg. = .275. Career OBP = .338

Abreu avg. = .300 Career OBP = .409

Dye has more Hr's, but he doesn't have close to as many doubles. Abreu has hit over 40 doubles in a season 5 times. Jermaine only did that twice.

So a .450 slugger v. a .480 slugger, but a .25 difference in Avg. and a .81 point difference in OBP. and 30 more steals a season... Not to mention that Abreu's had more 100 run seasons and more 100 RBI seasons.

Abreu would be a great idea, and Kenny should pull the trigger in a heartbeat. The only thing I don't like about it is the price, but if Uncle Jerry wants to put up some money and the Yanks can cut a small chunk of that contract out I'd be ecstatic. Cause if you'll notice, the people that say they "want a good prospect for Dye", haven't come up with any names. And the names they come up with probably won't be available for a veteran entering free agency. Why not go trade up for a player who can offer the sox more right now, and try winning again next season? They have the pitching now and when healthy this lineup looks like it can produce.


BTW: I'd like to hear who the "stud" outfielders are if Abreu isn't one of them. I've seen players dig themselves out of bigger slumps than where Abreu is right now.

Fenway
06-04-2007, 04:16 PM
quite the debate on the Yankees board

http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=104040

Do you do this trade if you are Cashman?
Yes
102 57.63%
No
75 42.37%

getonbckthr
06-04-2007, 04:18 PM
Yeah those are great stats. Jermaine Dye had a great season last season (the only season he's ever hit over 33 HR's). He can hit hr's. We have a lot of players that can hit HR's. Hr's is not the issue at hand for the Sox. They need someone who can hit the baseball a lot. With the exception of 50 games this season, Abreu has hit the ball extremely well his entire career.

His power is not "GONE", its transferred into doubles. 41 last season. He Swiped 30 bags while doing it. Your definition of power hitter might be Homerun hitter, but that's not necessarily mine.

You can glorify Jermaine all you want, and rightfully so. He had a great year last year, and the only thing he can do right now is hit HR's for the Sox. I think he's at his PEAK for trading for someone talented who can offer the Sox what they need.

The Sox need someone who can hit, and not just go yard. JD's career avg. = .275. Career OBP = .338

Abreu avg. = .300 Career OBP = .409

Dye has more Hr's, but he doesn't have close to as many doubles. Abreu has hit over 40 doubles in a season 5 times. Jermaine only did that twice.

So a .450 slugger v. a .480 slugger, but a .25 difference in Avg. and a .81 point difference in OBP. and 30 more steals a season... Not to mention that Abreu's had more 100 run seasons and more 100 RBI seasons.

Abreu would be a great idea, and Kenny should pull the trigger in a heartbeat. The only thing I don't like about it is the price, but if Uncle Jerry wants to put up some money and the Yanks can cut a small chunk of that contract out I'd be ecstatic. Cause if you'll notice, the people that say they "want a good prospect for Dye", haven't come up with any names. And the names they come up with probably won't be available for a veteran entering free agency. Why not go trade up for a player who can offer the sox more right now, and try winning again next season? They have the pitching now and when healthy this lineup looks like it can produce.


BTW: I'd like to hear who the "stud" outfielders are if Abreu isn't one of them.
Carlos Beltran, Ichiro, Vlad, Carl Crawford

balke
06-04-2007, 04:24 PM
Carlos Beltran, Ichiro, Vlad, Carl Crawford
Defensively, they are better. Abreu's up there as far as all around stats, especially if you put Crawford up there, with a career high 81 RBI and 101 Runs scored in 644 AB's. Just think of Abreu as C-Lee with more steals and a better OBP a better avg. etc.

getonbckthr
06-04-2007, 04:26 PM
Defensively, they are better. Abreu's up there as far as all around stats, especially if you put Crawford up there, with a career high 81 RBI and 101 Runs scored in 644 AB's.
Most of his career was a leadoff hitter, plays on a perrenial bad team and is what 26 years old to Abreu's 33?

balke
06-04-2007, 04:34 PM
Most of his career was a leadoff hitter, plays on a perrenial bad team and is what 26 years old to Abreu's 33?

Abreu's first full season he hit .312 with a .409 OBP. His second full year he had a .449 OBP with a .335 avg. 54 doubles, 37 HR's in that span. Crawford is way faster, but he's not heads and shoulders above Abreu a "stud" in comparison.

getonbckthr
06-04-2007, 04:36 PM
Abreu's first full season he hit .312 with a .409 OBP. His second full year he had a .449 OBP with a .335 avg. 54 doubles, 37 HR's in that span. Crawford is way faster, but he's not heads and shoulders above Abreu a "stud" in comparison.
Complete package he is without a doubt. Not to mention he is 13 million dollars cheaper.

balke
06-04-2007, 04:38 PM
he is 13 million dollars cheaper.


What does that have to do with being a stud? Oh wait, you're thinking the Sox are going to trade Dye for Crawford? No, it won't won't happen. Stop dreaming.

Jjav829
06-04-2007, 05:12 PM
Yeah those are great stats. Jermaine Dye had a great season last season (the only season he's ever hit over 33 HR's). He can hit hr's. We have a lot of players that can hit HR's. Hr's is not the issue at hand for the Sox. They need someone who can hit the baseball a lot. With the exception of 50 games this season, Abreu has hit the ball extremely well his entire career.

His power is not "GONE", its transferred into doubles. 41 last season. He Swiped 30 bags while doing it. Your definition of power hitter might be Homerun hitter, but that's not necessarily mine.

Fine. How about SLG %, which accounts for those doubles as well as home runs, triples and singles?

Dye's SLG the last 3 years:
2007: .434
2006: .622
2005: .512

Abreu's SLG:
2007: .316 :puking:
2006: .462
2005: .474 (.411 post All-Star break)

How's that work for you? Yes, those 40 doubles are nice. Give me the 40 home runs every day.


You can glorify Jermaine all you want, and rightfully so. He had a great year last year, and the only thing he can do right now is hit HR's for the Sox. I think he's at his PEAK for trading for someone talented who can offer the Sox what they need.I'm not gloryifying Dye. I said all offseason that he had a career year and wouldn't repeat that, even as some people were expecting another 40 HR season. However, he's a better player than Abreu at this point.

The Sox need someone who can hit, and not just go yard. JD's career avg. = .275. Career OBP = .338

Abreu avg. = .300 Career OBP = .409

Dye has more Hr's, but he doesn't have close to as many doubles. Abreu has hit over 40 doubles in a season 5 times. Jermaine only did that twice.

So a .450 slugger v. a .480 slugger, but a .25 difference in Avg. and a .81 point difference in OBP. and 30 more steals a season... Not to mention that Abreu's had more 100 run seasons and more 100 RBI seasons.No one would deny the Sox need more speed and could stand to be less reliant on home runs. I never disagreed with that, only with your assertion that Abreu has better power than Dye, which is somewhat laughable at this point.

BTW: I'd like to hear who the "stud" outfielders are if Abreu isn't one of them. I've seen players dig themselves out of bigger slumps than where Abreu is right now.Beltran, Vlad, Crawford, Sizemore, Holliday, Manny, Ichiro, Carlos Lee, Bay, Andruw Jones, Vernon Wells, Magglio, Alex Rios, Soriano, Berkman (though he's primarily a 1B now), Hunter, Swisher...I'd take any of those guys over Abreu. And you could even throws players like Francoeur, Matsui, Damon, Delmon Young, Rowand, Granderson, Cuddyer and Markakis (and probably some others I'm missing) into the mix for future years.

getonbckthr
06-04-2007, 05:14 PM
What does that have to do with being a stud? Oh wait, you're thinking the Sox are going to trade Dye for Crawford? No, it won't won't happen. Stop dreaming.
Son at what point did I even hint at the idea of a Crawford/Dye trade? You wanna have a discussion about our opinions on certain things fine, but don't put things in my mouth.

JB98
06-04-2007, 05:16 PM
I wouldn't do this trade. At least not yet. If we don't get something going on this seven-game homestand against two losing teams, it will be time to shakeup the lineup.

We are very slow three through seven in the lineup. We are a one-dimensional, power-laden team that is currently not hitting for power. I'm not sure we can win with this station-to-station lineup. We need to get younger and faster at a couple spots, and right now, RF and 3B are the two spots I'm looking at.

DSpivack
06-04-2007, 05:26 PM
Speed or not, an aging, expensive Abreu is not the answer.

JB98
06-04-2007, 05:29 PM
Speed or not, an aging, expensive Abreu is not the answer.

Abreu is the same age as Dye. :dunno:

balke
06-04-2007, 05:35 PM
Beltran, Vlad, Crawford, Sizemore, Holliday, Manny, Ichiro, Carlos Lee, Bay, Andruw Jones, Vernon Wells, Magglio, Alex Rios, Soriano, Berkman (though he's primarily a 1B now), Hunter, Swisher...I'd take any of those guys over Abreu. And you could even throws players like Francoeur, Matsui, Damon, Delmon Young, Rowand, Granderson, Cuddyer and Markakis into the mix for future years.

I'll put Abreu with a majority of those names any day of the week offensively. All of these players are great, but it comes down to where they are great. Maybe he hits 5 less hr's than someone on that list, but he hits 5 more doubles, swipes 15 more bags, and goes 100-100 more consistantly with Runs and RBI's.

Without last season, Jermaine Dye is a 30-30 ball player. He hits roughly .280 and has 80-90 RBI a season. I noticed you didn't put his name up there, but you put Rowands?

Of course Dye's SLG #'s have been better over a 3-year span, he hit 44 HR's last year. I'd rather look at 2005 which was not a career year for either player. SLG % difference is .40. Abreu scored 40 more runs that season and had 14 more RBI. What's more valuable to a team?

Wouldn't it be nice to have someone on base for Thome? Wouldn't it be great to see a double score Iguchi or Erstad from 1st base and keep the inning alive for Thome or Konerko?

That's the kind of player the Sox need, and unless you view baseball as a "He sucks now so he sucks going forward" sport you have to realize Abreu would be great for the Sox. That same kind of thinking, and the Sox would've never had Dye to begin with. I like the idea of taking Abreu while the #'s are down for half a season, and watching him raise them in the second half with the Sox.

California Sox
06-04-2007, 06:07 PM
If we could trade Dye to the Dodgers and get a legitimate piece for the future (one of their young lefthanders or Kemp for instance) but instead settle for what's-left-of-Bobby Abreu, IMO we'd be really really sorry.

DSpivack
06-04-2007, 06:14 PM
Abreu is the same age as Dye. :dunno:

If we trade Dye, we should get young talent in return. The answer isn't another aging, second-tier slugger.

JB98
06-04-2007, 06:19 PM
If we trade Dye, we should get young talent in return. The answer isn't another aging, second-tier slugger.

The point is we have Sweeney in the minors being groomed as a replacement for Dye. How soon do you think he's going to be ready? Next year? 2009? If you think it's 2009, we need a stopgap for 2008. I'd be surprised if we resign Dye, and frankly I'm not sure we should.

I wouldn't do this trade right now either. But Abreu is a different player than Dye. JD is a slugger. Injuries have robbed him of his speed and some of his defensive ability. Abreu works pitchers well and can still steal some bags. He can go first-to-third better than Dye. The whole idea is to get rid of that whole baseplugging thing we have working in the middle of our lineup. We have nobody three through seven who can run a lick.

Petch
06-04-2007, 06:50 PM
According to the Chicago Sun-Times, a rumor of our boys in black trading JD for the slumping Bobby Abreu has taken some life. Apparently it is now an actual possibility.

Personally, I am hesitant to get rid of JD after he has turned his career around in Chicago, but I used to love Abreu on Philly. What do you all think?

soxwon
06-04-2007, 06:56 PM
Do it this week.

JB98
06-04-2007, 06:56 PM
There's a whole thread about this in WTS.

DoItForDanPasqua
06-04-2007, 07:01 PM
The SF Chronicle has the same rumor. I would hate to see Dye go. I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for him after his actions during October of 2005. Also, Abreu is hitting .244 and is making $15.6 million.

I also think this thread will be moved soon.

Tragg
06-04-2007, 07:45 PM
The point is we have Sweeney in the minors being groomed as a replacement for Dye. How soon do you think he's going to be ready? Next year? 2009? If you think it's 2009, we need a stopgap for 2008. I'd be surprised if we resign Dye, and frankly I'm not sure we should.

We don't need a stopgap - we need a young outfielder. If we get one and then later Sweeney is ready, we have 2 and we can use 2 or trade 1. We have enough stopgaps on this team. Sweeney may never be ready. In fact, we could use 2 or 3 young hitters.

We need young talent and real ballplayers.

Back to the subject, the PHillies tried to dump Abreau for 2 years before the yankees bit; less than a season later, they want him out. His numbers are inferior to Dye's the last few years - hell, they are inferior to Dye this year. Why in the world would we make that deal?

balke
06-04-2007, 07:57 PM
We don't need a stopgap - we need a young outfielder. If we get one and then later Sweeney is ready, we have 2 and we can use 2 or trade 1. We have enough stopgaps on this team. Sweeney may never be ready. In fact, we could use 2 or 3 young hitters.

We need young talent and real ballplayers.



A young outfielder is pretty general. Noone is going to give up a young outfielder who doesn't cost anything for an old vet entering free agency. It doesn't work that way. You'll go from trading Dye to trading Dye and Garland or Vazquez, or at best you trade Dye and Sweeney for X-unnamed non-existant standout outfielder the Sox get cheap. Its a fantasy, the great young outfielder available for trade doesn't exist right now.

Kenny will make this deal make sense. It won't be a straight up deal, either cash would be involved, or another player. Even if it were straight up, if the Sox don't mind spending the money it makes the team better by giving them a guy who can get on base at a .400 clip.

Jjav829
06-05-2007, 12:13 AM
I'll put Abreu with a majority of those names any day of the week offensively. All of these players are great, but it comes down to where they are great. Maybe he hits 5 less hr's than someone on that list, but he hits 5 more doubles, swipes 15 more bags, and goes 100-100 more consistantly with Runs and RBI's.

I don't see how anyone could think Abreu should be mentioned in the same breath as guys like Beltran, Vlad, Ichiro, Crawford, Sizemore, Wells, Bay, etc.

Without last season, Jermaine Dye is a 30-30 ball player. He hits roughly .280 and has 80-90 RBI a season. I noticed you didn't put his name up there, but you put Rowands?I intentionally left Dye out because he was part of this discussion, and, as I've already said, he is currently a better player than Abreu. I didn't claim for it to be a perfect list either. I was responding in a hurry. I know I left Adam Dunn out, as well as Bonds and maybe a few more.

Of course Dye's SLG #'s have been better over a 3-year span, he hit 44 HR's last year. I'd rather look at 2005 which was not a career year for either player. SLG % difference is .40. Abreu scored 40 more runs that season and had 14 more RBI. What's more valuable to a team?That's fine, but 2005 was two years ago. Also, in this age of juiced players, you can't help but take notice when players fall off tremendously. I'd like to compare Dye to Albert Belle, but it's pointless because Belle isn't playing right now.

"He sucks now so he sucks going forward" sport you have to realize Abreu would be great for the Sox.That's fairly black and white. No, I don't just view it as a "he sucks now so he sucks going forward." It's more complicated than that. We're not talking about a 25-year-old with developing power. We're talking about a 33-year-old whose power has been on the decline the past few years. Abreu is past his peak years. You want a good example; a guy whose career path seems to be the one Abreu is following? Take a look at Brian Giles. At their peaks, they were virtually identical players. Abreu ran a bit more, but that was about the only difference. Both were very disciplined hitters. Both had line drive power, resulting in a lot of doubles and a good amount of homers. Both always hit for a good average. In fact, their career numbers are all very close.

Remember the 2002 Brian Giles? At the age of 31, Brian Giles hit 38 homers and had a 1.072 OPS. He walked 135 times that year! Giles was one of the better hitters in baseball at that point. That was by far his peak year, but it wasn't some fluke Brady Anderson kind of year. Giles hit 35+ homers four seasons in a row. Then the power disappeared. He hit 20 homers the next year. Then 23. Then 15. Then 14. This year he has 1 HR and a measly .347 SLG%. Yes, the move to Petco obviously had some effect on that power. But it was quite clear watching Giles that he had just lost any power he once had. He's still a solid player. He walks 100 times a year, doesn't strike out a lot, chips in 10 steals or so, hits for a high average and plays a capable right field. But this isn't the Brian Giles who in 2002 was one of the more feared hitters in baseball. Well, say hello to the new Brian Giles. In fact, "Bobby Abreu" might be Venezuelan for Brian Giles.

I'm not trying to knock what Abreu could potentially bring to the table. He would be a nice #2 hitter, a guy who would get on base a lot, steal a few bases and provide a little power. The Sox could use that. But let's not make Abreu out to be anywhere near the equivalent of a Sizemore or Holliday. And if the Sox do want to trade Dye, which I wouldn't be against if the struggles continue into July, they should be aiming to acquire some kind of young players for the future. After all, if Kenny Williams really does want Abreu, he's going to be available in the offseason. The Yankees might be willing to throw money around, but they're not paying $18 million to a guy who has been outperformed by Darin Erstad 1/3 of the way through the season.

Just for comparison's sake, entering today, Abreu had:
- as many home runs as Darin Erstad
- 1 RBI more than Erstad.
- 1 double more than Erstad.
- an average 20 points lower than Erstad.
- an OPS .006 lower than Erstad.

Abreu will be a free agent at the end of this year, and will make a lot less money.

chisoxmike
06-05-2007, 12:16 AM
Poll: Bobby Abreu for Jermaine Dye? (http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=104040)


Dye may have his problems this year but Abreau has forgotten out to play period.

That is a awful move. I read about that today in the paper and got angry that someone actually thinks its a good idea.

balke
06-05-2007, 12:53 AM
Just for comparison's sake, entering today, Abreu had:
- as many home runs as Darin Erstad
- 1 RBI more than Erstad.
- 1 double more than Erstad.
- an average 20 points lower than Erstad.
- an OPS .006 lower than Erstad.

Abreu will be a free agent at the end of this year, and will make a lot less money.

Do I really have to waste my time pointing out who "majority" was specifically referring too, but let's just say he's not Cabrera, Vlad, Ichi, Bay, Beltran, or Berkman (although he's not injured as much).

Crawford, Carlos Lee, Alex Rios, Hunter, Swisher (HAHA a .250 avg. is good for him!!!), Francoeur, Matsui, Damon, Rowand, Granderson, Cuddyer, Markakis, Dye.

Yeah I'm pretty sure I could throw Abreu in that mix of names without blinking. I'll tell you one thing, Darin Erstad is on the disabled list. Right where everyone knew he was going the day he signed here.

And again you want to use this 1/3 of a season as Abreu's measuring stick. That's just IMO a bad way to analyze a player. Especially when comparing him to another guy who was absolutely pathetic for his first third of a season with the White Sox.

Both players are great. I think the Yanks would cut a good deal to get abreu out of there, and the Sox would be a better team with Abreu, than Dye. I think the Yanks would be better with Dye than Abreu. But right now I don't really care what happens. There's all kinds of trade sewage running loose. Shields and Figgins for Crede? Buehrle for Wainwright and another reliever? Its like the offseason came early this year.

I think some people just fall in love with the longball too much. Like people who like Adam Dunn. You don't have to hit 50 homeruns to have 100 RBI and 100 Runs.

UserNameBlank
06-05-2007, 01:11 AM
Do I really have to waste my time pointing out who "majority" was specifically referring too, but let's just say he's not Cabrera, Vlad, Ichi, Bay, Beltran, or Berkman (although he's not injured as much).

Crawford, Carlos Lee, Alex Rios, Hunter, Swisher (HAHA a .250 avg. is good for him!!!), Francoeur, Matsui, Damon, Rowand, Granderson, Cuddyer, Markakis, Dye.

Yeah I'm pretty sure I could throw Abreu in that mix of names without blinking. I'll tell you one thing, Darin Erstad is on the disabled list. Right where everyone knew he was going the day he signed here.

And again you want to use this 1/3 of a season as Abreu's measuring stick. That's just IMO a bad way to analyze a player. Especially when comparing him to another guy who was absolutely pathetic for his first third of a season with the White Sox.

Both players are great. I think the Yanks would cut a good deal to get abreu out of there, and the Sox would be a better team with Abreu, than Dye. I think the Yanks would be better with Dye than Abreu. But right now I don't really care what happens. There's all kinds of trade sewage running loose. Shields and Figgins for Crede? Buehrle for Wainwright and another reliever? Its like the offseason came early this year.

I think some people just fall in love with the longball too much. Like people who like Adam Dunn. You don't have to hit 50 homeruns to have 100 RBI and 100 Runs.
Dye is on the downswing but still a much better player than Abreu. Please, just say no to Abreu.

On the Crede for Figgins and Shields rumor, I'd certainly hope we could get something better than that. While that is a pretty fair package for Crede right now, I don't see either of those players helping us. Shields is approaching FA and will be worth some good money, while the Sox are heading downhill and have a ton of problems in their pen to work on. The Sox need to get younger, especially in the IF, and Shields does not do that.

Figgins right now still has the chance to hit .300 and steal 50 bags, but with his defense and his numbers over the last couple of years I wouldn't like a deal for him unless we are giving up another project. I'd do something centered around Figgins for Floyd and put him at 2B, but as an OF or 3B I want no part of him, especially since we're trading a major leaguer who has at least once hit 30HRs in a season and plays excellent defense.

IMO, we need to dump Crede for one player who can make a difference on this team in the next year or so. Two or more players who aren't going to help longterm don't solve anything. Someone will see Crede as a valuable player, at least valuable enough to give us something close to a solution somewhere since he has another year left on his contract.

BTW, Crawford, Rios, and Francoeur are in a class above some of those players you mentioned, especially Rios. Rios could be better than Vernon Wells with the bat (I actually think he will be) and would be a fine CF. Rowand couldn't hold Rios' jockstrap.

The Immigrant
06-05-2007, 10:48 AM
Someone will see Crede as a valuable player, at least valuable enough to give us something close to a solution somewhere since he has another year left on his contract.

Unfortunately, Crede's trade value has disappeared since last August. We would have laughed at the idea of trading him for Shields and Figgins last summer, but things have changed. He has a bad back and looks to be in pain, his swing hasn't looked right since last August, and he'll be a Boras FA at the end of 2008.

Not exactly a prime trading chip.

Paulwny
06-05-2007, 10:49 AM
FWIW

From NY Daily News:
A source with knowledge of the situation said Yankee GM Brian Cashman had followed up the report by placing a call to counterpart Kenny Williams, but Williams expressed no interest in swapping outfielders.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2007/06/05/2007-06-05_abreu_rumor_dyes_with_gm_call.html

Jjav829
06-05-2007, 10:59 AM
Do I really have to waste my time pointing out who "majority" was specifically referring too, but let's just say he's not Cabrera, Vlad, Ichi, Bay, Beltran, or Berkman (although he's not injured as much).

Obviously...

Crawford, Carlos Lee, Alex Rios, Hunter, Swisher (HAHA a .250 avg. is good for him!!!), Francoeur, Matsui, Damon, Rowand, Granderson, Cuddyer, Markakis, Dye.

Crawford, Lee, Rios, Hunter and Swisher are better players. I specifically said about that second group...

And you could even throws players like Francoeur, Matsui, Damon, Delmon Young, Rowand, Granderson, Cuddyer and Markakis (and probably some others I'm missing) into the mix for future years.

Meaning that you could take those players and put them up against Abreu and make a case that they are more valuable going forward then Abreu (and probably even more valuable this year with the way Abreu is lost at the plate). None of them are significantly better like the first list, but they are all very close and probably better.

Yeah I'm pretty sure I could throw Abreu in that mix of names without blinking. I'll tell you one thing, Darin Erstad is on the disabled list. Right where everyone knew he was going the day he signed here.

Darin Erstad is making $1 million this year and was a late addition to the roster. Abreu is making $15 million. Erstad has been the better player thus far...and he's on the DL.

And again you want to use this 1/3 of a season as Abreu's measuring stick. That's just IMO a bad way to analyze a player. Especially when comparing him to another guy who was absolutely pathetic for his first third of a season with the White Sox.

I'm not using it as a complete measurement, but it's certainly hard to ignore given the way Abreu's power has declined in recent years. And Dye had a rough April, but bounced back well in May. By the end of May 2005, Dye had 10 HRs and a .741 OPS. It doesn't matter, though, because these are different situations. Dye's problem was simply staying healthy. You knew the power was there because he always had legitimate power. Abreu, on the other hand, is a line drive hitter who, since the 2005 All Star break, has not shown any consistent power. Regardless of how much you ignore it, the trend with Abreu is disturbing. And no, I'm not saying HRs are the only thing that matter. But from a corner outfielder, you'd like to see more than 6 HRs.

Jjav829
06-05-2007, 11:01 AM
FWIW

From NY Daily News:
A source with knowledge of the situation said Yankee GM Brian Cashman had followed up the report by placing a call to counterpart Kenny Williams, but Williams expressed no interest in swapping outfielders.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2007/06/05/2007-06-05_abreu_rumor_dyes_with_gm_call.html

Not surprising when you consider Abreu's struggles, the enormous option for next year and that he is the anti-grinder, it just doesn't seem like a trade KW would want to make.

balke
06-05-2007, 11:34 AM
Darin Erstad is making $1 million this year and was a late addition to the roster. Abreu is making $15 million. Erstad has been the better player thus far...and he's on the DL.

Yeah, so I guess the best way to judge how good a player is is by seeing how much money they make? Darin Erstad cost a million dollars cause he's never on base, is slow, is injury prone, and hasn't sniffed .300 in 7 seasons. He hasn't been on base above .350 Since his miracle 2000 season. He steals less than half the amount of bases, hits half the homeruns, less doubles, and he's Mr. Glass.

That's winning baseball right there, too bad Abreu can't grind like that. But hey, he cost 14 mil less so he must be more valuable? Give me a break, if the Sox would want to spend the money, that's up to them. They have it, even if they don't show it. And it would make no impact on resigning buehrle, as they have most likely made that decision already.

Abreu can hit, he'd be on base more than anyone but Thome, maybe even more than him. I'll stop talking about it until about Mid July when Abreu is back to .280 looking at finishing .300 on the season, since you only want to look at how he's playing now. You probably think Hunter is going to hit .300 with 50 doubles and 35 hr's the rest of his career based on this first 50 games.

I also think its disgusting you'd want Swisher's bat mixed into this horrible offense. Oh yeah, I forgot only 1/3 of the season counts, so he's a .300 hitter with a .425 OBP here on out.

Jjav829
06-05-2007, 12:10 PM
Wow, talk about reading too much into posts. Where do I begin?

Yeah, so I guess the best way to judge how good a player is is by seeing how much money they make? Darin Erstad cost a million dollars cause he's never on base, is slow, is injury prone, and hasn't sniffed .300 in 7 seasons. He hasn't been on base above .350 Since his miracle 2000 season. He steals less than half the amount of bases, hits half the homeruns, less doubles, and he's Mr. Glass.

My point was to show how bad Abreu has truly been this season. He's being outperformed by Mr. Glass. And this is a top of the line outfielder?

That's winning baseball right there, too bad Abreu can't grind like that. But hey, he cost 14 mil less so he must be more valuable? Give me a break, if the Sox would want to spend the money, that's up to them. They have it, even if they don't show it. And it would make no impact on resigning buehrle, as they have most likely made that decision already.Well, based on today's report, they clearly don't want to spend that money on a player who has performed as well as their $1 million stopgap centerfielder.

Abreu can hit, he'd be on base more than anyone but Thome, maybe even more than him. I'll stop talking about it until about Mid July when Abreu is back to .280 looking at finishing .300 on the season, since you only want to look at how he's playing now. You probably think Hunter is going to hit .300 with 50 doubles and 35 hr's the rest of his career based on this first 50 games.Yes, because Abreu hitting .280 clearly proves me wrong. :rolleyes:

Hey, is Brian Giles a top outfielder? (I'm gonna assume at this point that your answer, like everyone else, would be "No").

Why not? What's the big difference between Abreu and Giles? They both walk 100 times a year. Giles is always good for 35-40 doubles a year. Aside from last year, Giles is always around that .285-.300 mark. The only difference is Abreu steals 10-15 bases more. That's it. So why shouldn't Giles be considered a top outfielder while the powerless Abreu should? Do those 10-15 steals really mean that much more?

I also think its disgusting you'd want Swisher's bat mixed into this horrible offense. Oh yeah, I forgot only 1/3 of the season counts, so he's a .300 hitter with a .425 OBP here on out.Yeah, why anyone would want an improving 26-year-old in only his 3rd full season in the majors with good power and patience at the plate is beyond me. Everyone knows true value lies in 33-year-olds with ever decreasing power. :?:

Let me know if you see a trend here:
Nick Swisher:
2005 (first full season in the majors): .236/.322/.446/.768 21 HRs 55 BB
2006: .254/.372/.493/.864 35 HRs 97 BB
2007: .292/.425/.506/.931 9 HRs 41 BB

How disgusting!

Could it be that younger players tend to take a year or two (or more in some cases) to adjust to the majors before they reach their true potential? Nah, I guess not. Swisher is clearly going to be a .250 hitter his entire career. Meanwhile, 33-year-old and past his prime Bobby Abreu is obviously a lock to bounce back to his 2002 self, despite every indication pointing against that.

DickAllen72
06-05-2007, 12:32 PM
I'd swap Dye and Iguchi for Cabrera and Cano. I'd even throw in Buehrle if they insisted.

itsnotrequired
06-05-2007, 12:33 PM
This team needs more dinosaurs and wooled beasts.

balke
06-05-2007, 12:35 PM
Nick Swisher:
2005 (first full season in the majors): .236/.322/.446/.768 21 HRs 55 BB
2006: .254/.372/.493/.864 35 HRs 97 BB
2007: .292/.425/.506/.931 9 HRs 41 BB

How disgusting!

Could it be that younger players tend to take a year or two (or more in some cases) to adjust to the majors before they reach their true potential? Nah, I guess not. Swisher is clearly going to be a .250 hitter his entire career. Meanwhile, 33-year-old and past his prime Bobby Abreu is obviously a lock to bounce back to his 2002 self, despite every indication pointing against that.


Well first, the Sox aren't getting Swisher because of his youth and that he's inexpensive. Second, I like Swisher, just not the idea of adding yet another slugger who can't hit above .255 into THIS lineup.

I'll take the 2004, 2005, or even 2006 Abreu in this lineup right now (no need to go back to 2002). I want to see a hitter, not another HR guy.

And yes I do think those SB's mean more. I wouldn't mind seeing Giles hitting in U.S. Cellular, but all around he's weaker than Abreu and Dye. Abreu can put himself in scoring position more, which is why he scores more runs. I understand he's getting older. He's not the future of anything but perhaps the Sox second half, and next season. It just seems like a good opportunity for the Sox to get a hitter in the lineup, someone who can get on base, and from there not clog those bases.

Sargeant79
06-05-2007, 12:57 PM
I'd swap Dye and Iguchi for Cabrera and Cano. I'd even throw in Buehrle if they insisted.

You might. The Yankees wouldn't.

Flight #24
06-05-2007, 04:40 PM
FWIW

From NY Daily News:
A source with knowledge of the situation said Yankee GM Brian Cashman had followed up the report by placing a call to counterpart Kenny Williams, but Williams expressed no interest in swapping outfielders.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2007/06/05/2007-06-05_abreu_rumor_dyes_with_gm_call.html

Echoed in SI.

The Yankees liked the rumor they saw in a Chicago paper that they were talking about a Bobby Abreu-for-Jermaine Dye deal enough that GM Brian Cashman called his White Sox counterpart Ken Williams to see if that was something Chicago was interested in. While it wasn't something the teams had talked about to that point, the Yankees appeared ready to say yes to it. However, the Sox said no.

Frater Perdurabo
06-05-2007, 08:28 PM
I would do the deal if the Yankees threw in some cash to help pay Abreu's salary this year and next year.

Worst case scenario, if the change did not spark a major improvement in the team's play and the Sox do not close the gap with Cleveland and Detroit, then there still would be time to flip Abreu to another contending team for prospects. Abreu, signed for 2008, plus cash, is worth more in trade value than FA-to-be Dye.

If the Sox closed the gap with Cleveland and Detroit as of July 31, they could hang on to Abreu and see what happens. Worst case scenario, the Sox miss the playoffs and then this offseason trade Abreu for prospects to free up salary space to make a run at Ichiro and/or re-sign Buehrle.

I don't see much of a downside to this swap, as long as the Yankees kick in some cash.

SBSoxFan
06-06-2007, 11:21 AM
I would do the deal if the Yankees threw in some cash to help pay Abreu's salary this year and next year.

Worst case scenario, if the change did not spark a major improvement in the team's play and the Sox do not close the gap with Cleveland and Detroit, then there still would be time to flip Abreu to another contending team for prospects. Abreu, signed for 2008, plus cash, is worth more in trade value than FA-to-be Dye.

If the Sox closed the gap with Cleveland and Detroit as of July 31, they could hang on to Abreu and see what happens. Worst case scenario, the Sox miss the playoffs and then this offseason trade Abreu for prospects to free up salary space to make a run at Ichiro and/or re-sign Buehrle.

I don't see much of a downside to this swap, as long as the Yankees kick in some cash.

Doesn't Abreu have a full no-trade clause? If so, it might not be so easy to just flip him.

In the meantime, he's like 9 for his last 16. On the other hand, JD is not. :whiner:

Grzegorz
06-07-2007, 05:51 AM
Abreu does not take this team over the top because baseball is a team game.

Dye for Abreu would be a swap of one older player for another. If you trade an older established veteran or veterans you'd better get some young talent that is ready to contribute immediately.

balke
06-07-2007, 02:37 PM
Abreu does not take this team over the top because baseball is a team game.

Dye for Abreu would be a swap of one older player for another. If you trade an older established veteran or veterans you'd better get some young talent that is ready to contribute immediately.

Its a team with a lot of solo shots, 1 bullpen arm, and 1 guy hitting the ball.


Let me add something here.

"The Newark Star-Ledger reports since New York Yankees OF Bobby Abreu sat out the team's May 30 game, he is 12-for-25 (.480) with five doubles, a homer, eight walks (.606 on-base percentage), four RBI and seven runs scored." - Yahoo